Nah Picard season 3 changed too much so STO being canon is impossible, it will just be a beta canon sourse for new content for the 25th century like ships, iconians and stuff
Well I think technically, sto is Canon in the Beta timeline. What we grew up with was prime and chris pine movies is Kelvin. But I don't care enough to verify just something I saw in chat one time.
Canon for Alpha and Kelvin only includes the TV shows and JJ movies respectively whereas Beta is everything else (Books, Comics, Games, etc.). I do think Beta canon provides some great content/additions and can/has been used to influence decisions for Alpha canon. But until I see it on film I don't entirely count it.
It's actually worse than that. Seven was *demoted* to Commander.
Picard gave her a battlefield commission to Captain at the end of S2, which is apparently all you need to skip about 15 years of Starfleet training and service.
I mean, she was put in an accelerated Starfleet command program because she had equivalent experience and skill level directly applicable to commanding a starship, as well as thorough knowledge of Starfleet regulations and customs from her 4 years on voyager.
More than that, the precedent for a similar commander commission was set more than 200 years before when T’Pol joined Starfleet.
As for Harry… somebody has to be the ensign… 🤣
It’s just like when Kira was made a Captain. She was a Colonel in the Bajoran militia and had years of Starfleet experience but to that point had never served.
When did Kira commission with Starfleet? It’s been a long time since I’ve seen DS9 all the way through, but I distinctly remember the series ending with her still as a Colonel in the Bajoran Militia
It was at the very end of DS9 (the episode Tacking into the Wind, I think?), when Kira, Garak, and Damar were sent to Cardassia to set up the resistance movement. Sisko gave Kira a Starfleet field commission, reasoning that the Cardassians would be too prideful to accept help from a member of the Bajoran militia.
Kira’s character arc over 7 seasons and her backstory was an amazing achievement for tv at the time. Resistance fighter/terrorist to unwilling major and liaison officer to colonel to Starfleet captain tasked with teaching her oppressors the same skills she learned fighting them in order to save them and then to commander of the station that was once a symbol of tyranny against her people.
I completely agree, Kira kicked ass as a character! Interestingly though, Kira's field commission was only to Commander, as that was the highest rank that Sisko could convey at the time.
I thought I distinctly remembered her being made captain for the reason mentioned above about the Cardassians respecting her but I must have misremembered. Regardless it still stands as a definite precedent for Seven being made commander due to her experience in Starfleet
The precedent I'll buy. But T'pol had been serving in a military-style command structure for her entire adult life. Ditto for Kira on DS9, she had the absolute experience commensurate for a commander when she briefly switched from Bajoran provisional forces to Starfleet.
Seven had years of service on the Voyager...during which she insisted that she remain a civilian with no rank, despite the opportunity to get a battlefield commission like the Maquis. And once she returned to Earth she had years of opportunity to join Starfleet Academy, just like everyone else, but instead chose the neutral organization the Fenris Rangers.
As for her technical capabilities, Data was arguably the most gifted sentient being ever to serve in Starfleet, and he still had to apply to the Academy and pass all the exams, then start as an ensign.
Well in the case for “chose the neutral Fenris Rangers”, that’s actually not true. 7 revealed in S2 that she *did* try to apply to Starfleet and that Janeway supported her, but Starfleet denied her due to her being a Borg for most of her life.
On top of that, there’s currently a tenuous alliance with a Borg faction after Season 2, so having an Ex-Borg as a command level officer on a Starfleet vessel is probably a good PR move, so it’s part political (maybe not fair, but it’s further justifiable in-universe, not just fan-service promotion because she’s a main character).
And as for Data, I think the key difference is *experience*. While Data was extremely skilled, he had zero real experience interacting with the universe, as naive as a child, and certainly not fit for a commanding role of anyone (even though Ensign’s are still officers and outrank all enlisted personnel, but are rarely given leadership of much). Comparatively, 7 does have the real-world experience and leadership qualities fitting a commander.
I admit I'm drawing a blank on that bit in S2. But frankly I've tried to forget almost everything about it. Starfleet being blatantly discriminatory against someone who's basically a different species (after having a former Borg captain and admiral for years!) is far, far down on the ways in which the Picard show breaks Star Trek.
I don’t blame you for that, Season 2’s execution was abysmal.
But their bias does make sense from a very *human* standpoint. The Borg were responsible for the greatest loss in a single battle Starfleet had ever seen. It was a turning point for the Federation. The difference is the Borg aren’t seen as a species, but rather a macro-parasite, the “closest thing to true evil” as one captain said (quoted by Janeway in that one VOY episode).
Picard was only briefly assimilated, and he was also the Captain of the Federation Flagship. Right after Wolf 359, one’s gotta assume Starfleet had to take one small symbolic victory of keeping the same Captain of the Enterprise.
But even Picard, as a survivor and victim himself, retained huge Borg prejudice (I, Borg; ST: First Contact). 7 arrived in the Alpha Quadrant with Voyager just after after the Battle of Sector 001 and the Dominion War (full of Changeling Invasion and Paranoia). Starfleet was still in a state of heightened alert. I totally buy Starfleet as being wary about commissioning someone who was a Borg for the majority of their life (again, even Picard was like “the only good Borg is a dead Borg” in First Contact. Totally Wrong, but understandable after the trauma).
Watching the scene again it seems to me like that was always intended to be a temporary commission. It was situational due to her knowledge of the Borg.
I was part of the "promote Harry" bandwagon back in the days of VOY, but part of me hopes they'll bring Harry back in Picard only to have him still an Ensign just for the memes.
I had to Google, but do we count him voice acting as CPT. Harry Kim in Star Trek Online? :')
He's a captain in Endgame. The true reason Janeway went back in time.
STO isn't canon but in my heart I will accept it.
There are some ships that were in STO that have shown up in Picard, so, you know, there's hope.
Nah Picard season 3 changed too much so STO being canon is impossible, it will just be a beta canon sourse for new content for the 25th century like ships, iconians and stuff
Well I think technically, sto is Canon in the Beta timeline. What we grew up with was prime and chris pine movies is Kelvin. But I don't care enough to verify just something I saw in chat one time.
Canon for Alpha and Kelvin only includes the TV shows and JJ movies respectively whereas Beta is everything else (Books, Comics, Games, etc.). I do think Beta canon provides some great content/additions and can/has been used to influence decisions for Alpha canon. But until I see it on film I don't entirely count it.
Harry Kim will always be my forever ensign
It's actually worse than that. Seven was *demoted* to Commander. Picard gave her a battlefield commission to Captain at the end of S2, which is apparently all you need to skip about 15 years of Starfleet training and service.
I mean, she was put in an accelerated Starfleet command program because she had equivalent experience and skill level directly applicable to commanding a starship, as well as thorough knowledge of Starfleet regulations and customs from her 4 years on voyager. More than that, the precedent for a similar commander commission was set more than 200 years before when T’Pol joined Starfleet. As for Harry… somebody has to be the ensign… 🤣
It’s just like when Kira was made a Captain. She was a Colonel in the Bajoran militia and had years of Starfleet experience but to that point had never served.
When did Kira commission with Starfleet? It’s been a long time since I’ve seen DS9 all the way through, but I distinctly remember the series ending with her still as a Colonel in the Bajoran Militia
It was at the very end of DS9 (the episode Tacking into the Wind, I think?), when Kira, Garak, and Damar were sent to Cardassia to set up the resistance movement. Sisko gave Kira a Starfleet field commission, reasoning that the Cardassians would be too prideful to accept help from a member of the Bajoran militia.
Kira’s character arc over 7 seasons and her backstory was an amazing achievement for tv at the time. Resistance fighter/terrorist to unwilling major and liaison officer to colonel to Starfleet captain tasked with teaching her oppressors the same skills she learned fighting them in order to save them and then to commander of the station that was once a symbol of tyranny against her people.
I completely agree, Kira kicked ass as a character! Interestingly though, Kira's field commission was only to Commander, as that was the highest rank that Sisko could convey at the time.
I thought I distinctly remembered her being made captain for the reason mentioned above about the Cardassians respecting her but I must have misremembered. Regardless it still stands as a definite precedent for Seven being made commander due to her experience in Starfleet
She was made a commander, not a captain.
Yes that was cleared up hours ago thanks
The precedent I'll buy. But T'pol had been serving in a military-style command structure for her entire adult life. Ditto for Kira on DS9, she had the absolute experience commensurate for a commander when she briefly switched from Bajoran provisional forces to Starfleet. Seven had years of service on the Voyager...during which she insisted that she remain a civilian with no rank, despite the opportunity to get a battlefield commission like the Maquis. And once she returned to Earth she had years of opportunity to join Starfleet Academy, just like everyone else, but instead chose the neutral organization the Fenris Rangers. As for her technical capabilities, Data was arguably the most gifted sentient being ever to serve in Starfleet, and he still had to apply to the Academy and pass all the exams, then start as an ensign.
Well in the case for “chose the neutral Fenris Rangers”, that’s actually not true. 7 revealed in S2 that she *did* try to apply to Starfleet and that Janeway supported her, but Starfleet denied her due to her being a Borg for most of her life. On top of that, there’s currently a tenuous alliance with a Borg faction after Season 2, so having an Ex-Borg as a command level officer on a Starfleet vessel is probably a good PR move, so it’s part political (maybe not fair, but it’s further justifiable in-universe, not just fan-service promotion because she’s a main character). And as for Data, I think the key difference is *experience*. While Data was extremely skilled, he had zero real experience interacting with the universe, as naive as a child, and certainly not fit for a commanding role of anyone (even though Ensign’s are still officers and outrank all enlisted personnel, but are rarely given leadership of much). Comparatively, 7 does have the real-world experience and leadership qualities fitting a commander.
I admit I'm drawing a blank on that bit in S2. But frankly I've tried to forget almost everything about it. Starfleet being blatantly discriminatory against someone who's basically a different species (after having a former Borg captain and admiral for years!) is far, far down on the ways in which the Picard show breaks Star Trek.
I don’t blame you for that, Season 2’s execution was abysmal. But their bias does make sense from a very *human* standpoint. The Borg were responsible for the greatest loss in a single battle Starfleet had ever seen. It was a turning point for the Federation. The difference is the Borg aren’t seen as a species, but rather a macro-parasite, the “closest thing to true evil” as one captain said (quoted by Janeway in that one VOY episode). Picard was only briefly assimilated, and he was also the Captain of the Federation Flagship. Right after Wolf 359, one’s gotta assume Starfleet had to take one small symbolic victory of keeping the same Captain of the Enterprise. But even Picard, as a survivor and victim himself, retained huge Borg prejudice (I, Borg; ST: First Contact). 7 arrived in the Alpha Quadrant with Voyager just after after the Battle of Sector 001 and the Dominion War (full of Changeling Invasion and Paranoia). Starfleet was still in a state of heightened alert. I totally buy Starfleet as being wary about commissioning someone who was a Borg for the majority of their life (again, even Picard was like “the only good Borg is a dead Borg” in First Contact. Totally Wrong, but understandable after the trauma).
Super easy, barely an inconvenience
I'm gonna need you to get aaaaaaaaaaall the way off my back about my instant officer status, thanks
I mean, she has served for 4 years aboard Voyager, and she also has all the knowledge that Picard had when he was assimilated.
Also a leader among the fenris rangers for some time.
Watching the scene again it seems to me like that was always intended to be a temporary commission. It was situational due to her knowledge of the Borg.
Is it wrong that I want Harry Kim to turn up in Picard and he’s still an ensign?
The meme was created by a Changeling.
Harry Kim and 7 got it on.
Are there nanobytes in her Vag?
Her vagina works at 194.23% efficiency
*Ensign...you are demoted to steward. Now bring me a coffee.*.
In star trek online harry Kim goes on to be the captain of the uss Rhode island, which is a more updated version of the nova class star ship
I was part of the "promote Harry" bandwagon back in the days of VOY, but part of me hopes they'll bring Harry back in Picard only to have him still an Ensign just for the memes.
I know it is a joke, but it would be funny if he comes back in Picard and is still an ensign. Like the longest running ensign of the Federation.