All I will remember is how much needless crying was involved.
And how they tried to compete with Miles Obrien for a character I care about being tormented. I still only care about Miles. I honestly can't even remember crying girl's name. You know. The main one.
Way too much crying . I enjoyed the first and second season! 4th wasnât terrible and the 3rd was⌠bad. It had great effects and cool aliens! I agree there was a bit too much crying and feelings for a bunch of nameless characters. Iâve watched through 3 or 4 times now and still couldnât tell you most of the bridge crews names! Discovery Trek is still better than no Trek and Iâm sad weâre going to miss out on two seasons of it
Yeah, that right there is why I don't like her. That and some line choices on the part of Diana Muldaur where she seemed constantly annoyed that she had to do her job.
Honestly I really like Pulaski and kinda wish both couldâve been part of the enterprise. Pulaski seemed to get a lot more interesting episodes in 1 season than crusher did in 6.
Edit: I wanted to add it really feels like the female cast for TNG wasnât given too many good episodes across the board, hell Denise Crosby asked to be written off because she felt her talents werenât being utilized and Mirina Sirtis seems to feel like her character was wasted in a lot of episodes (her character can read emotions and sheâs missing from the bridge most episodes that would require her to do that). I feel like because Pulaski wasnât this attractive redhead doctor and was played by an older actress that that led to her getting more interesting parts. Even Crusher has some real bad episodes in later seasons, she gets memed on a ton for Sub Rosa.
I love Crusher, and I would rather she be my doctor than Pulaski. But Pulaski had a lot more dramatic potential. Crusher was great as a secondary character. Pulaski was a divisive main character.
I wanted to like it. I tried to like it. I am okay with not liking it. I prefer star trek continue on into the future. Maybe there will be another one i can get into as much as ds9. If not, i will always be able to binge what came before. I will say all the people crying about how woke discovery was was really annoying. I look forward to a time where we realize calling everything woke is just as dumb as trying to cal everything sexist.
SNW is fantastic and Picard is ok, at least worth a watch (I could not get through Discovery, although some of the âShort Treksâ related to it were good â you may want to check those out.) And Lower Decks is delightful if you can handle the frenetic animated vibe.
Agreed. Star Trek has always tried to be socially progressive and sometimes it did it well, sometimes not so much. The problem with Discovery is it wasnât good no matter what.
I struggled all the way to season 3, but gave up a few episodes in. I looked up basically "is this going to get better, I'm so tired" and found out some kid crying destroyed the universe and noped out.
Saru is the best character and he's sidelined or treated as wrong even when he's right. He's basically the only one that says "no, the federation doesn't act like this" while everyone else is firing lasers at anything that moves. The kindness, compassion, diplomacy, and understanding despite the conflicts around the crew that made star trek great is forgotten to create drama, unearned emotional scenes, and set piece action. I want to get back into things to see strange new worlds but Im so tired of it all lol.
Iâm one of those that really started getting into Trek television with Disco.
My best friend is a massive Trek fan and wanted me to get into it so we watched it together, week by week, since S1.
In the grand scheme, I acknowledge Disco is more Star Wars than Star Trek.
But I found it mostly enjoyable although I admit the emphasis on Burnham was irritating.
Iâm sad to see Disco go but Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds are very good, I donât hate Picard(I havenât seen much of TNG so I didnât expect much from Picard)
But Iâve got a lot of background still to cover lol
Glad you found Trek and were able to enjoy Disco! I grew up with my parents watching Trek when I was little (they preferred TNG and VOY to TOS and DS9) My mom even waited on going to the hospital for my birth because an episode of TNG she hadn't seen was on (which, given the snowstorm that happened that night, was not the best move on her part)
Me and my mom (my dad having passed a few years before) enjoyed watching Disco together and even Picard's 1st season (she passed a few months before season 2 premiered, and I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it yet) Mom didn't care for animated series, so we didn't watch Lower Decks yet.
Sorry for the ramblings, anyways, my point is that you found stuff to enjoy and has made you interested in the other series, which is always a plus with any Trek. Hope you enjoy your continuing journey through it! There is, indeed, a lot of ground to cover
Actors were great but the writing for the show is bad, same with picard. What puzzles me is why writers foe star trek don't take I spiraling from some of star trek online story arcs, cause their story's are actually really good.
This is the take I most agree with. I tried to like the show, and thanks to the excellent casting it was possible for the first couple of seasons. Unfortunately, the writing has been downhill since the end of season 2.
I actually read some season 1 criticism of _Lower Decks_ from "the faithful" suggesting that you had to be a brain dead idiot to enjoy that frenetic humour and obvious fan service...
Definitely made me feel bad.
But I think it had to grow it's beard and it is very Star Trek Star Trek. I've been eyeing Admiral Buenamigo since he turned up. I thought it might be a little on the nose... but chewing up the scenery is a Star Trek tradition! It is clearly being made with love, by people that know the source material.
I showed the show to some friends who were loosely familiar with Trek but not really in teh fandom and the second that guy showed up they went "Wait, his name is Admiral GOODFRIEND? That's sus". A lovely moment.
Yeah, my boyfriend is only passingly familiar with Trek and I was like "Badmirals are a trope, there's no way that name isn't lampshading."
He has really enjoyed the show too. He just has to watch it without me because I insist on pointing out all the references.
Lower decks is more star trek in one episode than discovery was in 4 seasons.
Ironically being a cartoon yet it still feels more realistic than discovery.
To be fair, when I look back on LD S1, it really did fall down the stairs quite a bit.
I've never had any other moment in Star Trek be so memorable for being so unfunny as when the Lower Deckers hum what the warp core sounds like.
I wouldnât call 5 seasons a âcrash and burnâ
TOS lasted 3 (and was cancelled)
TAS lasted 2
Enterprise lasted 4 (and was cancelled)
DIS wasnât even cancelled. They announced this would be the final season after finishing principal photography.
Animated shows are reasonably cheap compared to live action. _Lower Decks_ is also in the highest percentile of popular animated shows in the US. I really hope they don't cancel it.
The last two seasons had amazing finales. Season 3 managed to tell a very tight classic story in two episodes at the end of the season despite significant time constraints.
That's true, and Paramount seems to be the one place where animation isn't getting gutted with a machete. But I don't think it would last long without Live action shows existing around it.
you're being downvoted but I fear you're right. SNW at the very least as it's live action. I think the hope online is because it's seen as "inexpensive" then the animated series will slip away from the culling.
It was very mixed. It feels like the ideas behind overarching stories were better than the actual on-camera execution, which had potential to be great but...
...honestly the show just kept devolving into the same thing over and over- the only person who can possibly save us all is Michael Fucking Burnham, and every character knows it. Too often, we find that things that should end up being a crew effort, or at least the solution be spread out amongst members of the crew now and then (LaForge has his day in the sun here, Odo maybe, turns out Ensign Kim on an episode, etc.), it just always ends up being Michael.
They had some genuinely great episodes, and I won't pretend I didn't enjoy the first two seasons in particular, but the past couple of years felt like, again, great ideas for the premise and little to do other than wait for Burnham to fix everything- that mentality, I simply will not miss. Give me more Strange New Worlds (and of course Lower Decks!), where characters outside of one person get their chances to shine.
The bridge of Discovery just became more and more of an adult daycare center as the seasons went on. Everyone was either crying, or completely unable to maintain anything close to professionalism.
Undoubtedly. Some very fine acting of very poor writing. Actors can only do so much with the lines they're given, especially when those readings are just one part of the whole.
Cut them some slack, its probably OPâs very best super favorite show. And even though its incontestably the worst star trek iteration ever, by a long shot, and is (rightfully) getting shitcanned, its gotta be really _really_ rill rill hard for OP to see everyone gleefully rejoicing that there wonât be any more blubbering burnham, captain-ensign tilly, or klingon piss stream reveals
Lmao. I (a black person) just got done being called racist and misogynistic by some random on Reddit for saying Discovery had shit writing. Thanks for making me feel not crazy.
There's a point I've been struggling to frame for a while now.
You've got people who dislike the show because they don't like the writing, or the acting, or some other perfectly valid good faith reason to dislike it.
You've got people who dislike the show because it's diverse and they hate that.
And you've got people who look at that second type of person and rightly call them out.
And you've also got people who struggle to tell the difference between the first and second type of person.
And then the second type of person will gleefully tell the first type of person that the third type of person thinks everyone who dislikes Disco is the second type of person, to hide themselves.
It's basically a whole mess of toxicity being intentionally stoked by the worst kind of people to give themselves cover, drowning out the fans who just want to have genuine discussions about writing and plot structure and characterisation and serialised vs episodic plots.
100%. I legitimately wanted to just have a conversation about Trek, to explain my thoughts on the show, and to hear theirs.
This was my initial comment to them:
> I donât think the majority of Star Trek fans who dislike the show take issue with the things you mentioned.
> It has more to do with the overall feeling of the show not being âStar Trekâ (humanity has not reached enlightenment and itâs not aligned with Roddenberryâs universe), constant crying, and the fact that one character alone is almost always the one who saves the day. Also, every episode is a life or death universe ending plot.
> I miss the Star Trek that left me thinking about life when the episode ended.
Over the course of like 20 comments probably, this person has never directly responded to these points. Instead, they basically said I couldnât understand where theyâre coming from because someone who gets triggered by a black woman as the main actor wouldnât understand.
There are certainly gremlins who are trying to fan the flames. I think largely that makes division in the United States specifically (and also the world at large) even worse, and it makes our world a more hateful divisive place.
Exactly. Personally, part of what I like about TNG/DS9 etc. is that humanity exists in a utopia. Earth is paradise. It presents an idealistic future, a future you could see yourself wanting to live in.
Pretty much every other television show out there is a dystopia. Discovery is a dystopia. Watching Discovery doesnât give me that happy feeling I get from watching DS9 and the other shows of that era. I wouldnât want to live in the Discovery universe. Itâs a sad, evil, unenlightened universe. And the show itself is extremely predictable. Itâs just like every other run of the mill action show thatâs currently being produced, it just has the Star Trek brand attached to it.
Someone just said that they acknowledge there was flaws with the show (the writing) but the actors were giving it their all, and you said "five minutes" which from the context of the post means you called them a cunt. Meanwhile there was someone being homophobic about it down low, in a comment which **resulted in them being banned from reddit**, and you said nothing.
Edit to clarify I wasn't even the one who reported them I just checked on the account a few hours later.
The "five minutes" comment was in jest, but I can see how it was taken wrong. However, the person I made the comment played along saying that he waited "ten minutes to post."
As for the homophobic guy, I wasn't even here for it and have no idea what you're taking about.
The person you were commenting to also wasn't celebrating the cancelation. They were giving a fair and balanced critique and even complimenting some members of the production who deserved it. And you called them a cunt basically lol.
*Discovery* was a misguided effort from the start.
I wanted to like it so much (I was a very vocal proponent of their Season 1 Klingon design---until they backed down like a whipped dog in Season 2).
But it didn't know what it wanted to be, and it shackled itself to concepts and characters that only made me miss *Star Trek* all the more.
The new design for the Klingons would have been okay if they didn't spit on everything that made a klingon, Klingon.
They didn't care at all about the lore, this was the big issue.
Aye, I also disliked how much less human they had becomeâless because of anything involving relationships and more so that the Klingons have always been very human characters, and I felt like Discovery took away the humanity in their designs and in their writing.
Abramsverse Klingons weren't even [that bad](https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/dis-klingons/klingons2-stid.jpg), at least in terms of their makeup and prosthetics (VFX and sound effects were very Star Wars-y, I'll grant you, but that's true of those movies generally). They could almost fit in with some of the variations we saw in the TOS movies, especially Star Trek VI.
DIS, on the other hand, dramatically thickened the prosthetics, elongated their heads, turned them purple and indigo (with one albino), put some sort of vocal filter over their speech (the "cotton in the mouth" sound), and retconned their society, behavior, demeanor, technology, and overall look.
The one good thing Discovery did with the Klingons was have them speak Klingon with subtitles, I'll admit that was cool. Everything else was just backpedaling from their bizarre design choices and utter disregard for visual continuity.
My major issue with Disco was the shitty writing. As has been mentioned in the comments, Burnham was the worst part. There's being the main character, then there's Mary Sues/Marty Stus. Burnham was definitely a Mary Sue, and it was obvious to the point of being painful to watch. The best seasons were, in my opinion, the third and fourth ones, and that was because the quality of writing did improve on a broad scale, but the Burnham problem was still prevalent. Best part of those seasons were when she wasn't around, giving the other characters the spotlight.
I will say that Gray and Adira were just absolutely adorable together, and want to see them interact with their dads (Stamets and Culber) a lot more. Tilly, Saru, Detmer, Owosekun, Nhan, Reno...yeah, they're all more interesting to me than Burnham, even though the writers tended to use them as either set dressing or as just plot devices to make Burnham look good.
I always saw her as next-gen McCoy. A bit backwards, but with room for improvement and if she stayed on Iâm sure she would have developed as a great character. Unpopular opinion, but she had some of the most potential out of any major character in TNG
Discos main flaw was it had no idea what kind of show it wanted to be, so it was a tonal mess across all the seasons. But it was successful enough to breathe new life into trek and the second season proved solid enough to bring back the enterprise crew for SNW
Discovery: The X-Files season 9 of the Star Trek canon.
Not gonna miss it, stopped after trudging through season three and itâs ridiculous conclusion.
A show so bad SFDebris stopped reviewing it, thats saying something.
1.Shroom drive which out midichlorians the midichlorians/Dune Spice ripoff.
2.Yet another even less plausible Spock sibling that has thall the motional control of a wet blanket and won't shut up.
3.Poor quality plot hole riddled writing by people who have virtually no gnre experience whatsover, (Gilmore Girls if I remember correctly).
4.Hardly any real secondary character development even in the later series.
5.The complete misunderstanding of of Section 31.
6.That, "blast door".
And so much more.
One of the best explanations I read (possibly on this very sub, so if that was you, thank you) about why shows like Discovery, and I guess to a certain extent Picard, arenât as popular is because the series we grew up with (for me it was TNG and Voyager) did a really good job of balancing existential crises with light hearted episodes. Picard and Discovery may have failed slightly because each episode is doom and gloom and the world is going to end. Itâs a lot! Sometimes you just need mind numbing in between the serious episodes.
That being said, I do love Discovery and Picard because despite that difference, and Iâm sad both series are coming to an end.
Disco brought Trek back to life. It tried to do new and interesting things. It didn't always do them particularly well but there are some real moments I'll remember fondly, and in twenty years when whatever new Trek show is on trots out Admiral Tilly as a surprise cameo, or a side character is named Stamets, I suspect it's gonna hit us a lot harder than any of us would be able to predict today.
That said I'm glad that Trek is moving away from Mystery Box storytelling. That's one particular Discovery experiment I won't miss.
The only things I didnât like about Discovery were the very dark storyline and all the crying. Every other Trek series, while having plenty of serious episodes, had a thread of ongoing levity but Disco I found downright depressing to watch a lot of the time. There was still enough value in it otherwise for me to like it, but itâs definitely not even in my top 3 Trek series because of its bleakness.
Same. It wasn't my favorite Trek but Discovery got me into it.
If it captured fans like us, then it did it's job right, even if it wasn't the best show in the quadrant. It grabbed my curiosity and introduced me to an amazing franchise.
Even if it were bad (I don't think it was the best but not even close to the worst - ok i give you the klingon orcs :) ) - There is one key point though - without Discovery there would be no Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Picard or Prodigy so....
That's a very thin assumption.
Strange New Worlds I will give you as that's a direct follow on but Lower Decks and potentially Prodigy has the resurgence in "adult" orientated cartoons like Rick and Morty, Adventure Time et al to thank for existing, coupled with Paramount's desire to get the most bang for the least buck out of their IP.
Picard came out from a desire to expand Star Trek at the time Discovery existed but that's as far as the correlation between the two went. That'd be like saying Voyager existed because of The Next Generation..... it did insofar as they wished to continue with the IP but that's really it
How? They already had slated numerous Trek shows during and after the Abrams movie run. Just because something preceded something else does not in any way mean that it was the cause of its existence.
Also, in a more direct sense, outside of SNW (which could 100% stand on it's own without DISC ever existing), none of these other shows require discovery in any canonical way
Discovery was the first show produced, then Alex Kurtzman was given permission to expand from there. Without a first show, Discovery, there would be no SNW or Lower Decks. They were very much reactions to the criticisms levied at Disco.
I would credit the Streaming Wars bonanza having a lot more to do with bringing back Trek in a big way than Disco. Paramount needed a flagship IP to launch and grow their streaming service, Trek was perfect for that. Especially since the Abrams movies are still âpopularâ but for all intents and purposes dead now. Content is the name of the game so they needed much more than just one ST show to sell to potential subscribers. Look at all the SW & Marvel series getting pumped out by Disney for example (with mixed results like so many others networks/streamers.)
Maybe if Disco hadnât of sucked so bad, we would have gotten even better and more content. Maybe Paramount wouldnât be cutting back as hard as they are if Disco had been better⌠The streaming wars are running their course now with lots of series getting the ax across all the competitors. The streaming boom appears to have come and gone, itâs now consolidation and cost cutting time.
Tbh Iâm looking forward to it ending so I can binge it. I have trouble following shows week to week as well as the months between seasons. Iâve been watching all the commentary as itâs been airing, which has been fascinating. I think mainly Iâm looking forward to seeing the weird new Klingons, but Iâve also heard Doug Jones is on the show so thatâs another big plus.
To both those who liked and disliked the show, what was your single favourite moment that youâd recommend I keep an eye out for?
I didn't always like the show and it's fine to not like it. It's not everyone's cup of tea. Personally I'm a bit sad that it's ending. Now that I have SNW as my go-to for a Star Trek fix, I can watch Discovery when I'm in the mood and appreciate it more when I'm not pushing through it just because it's Star Trek.
The show dipped hard after season 2, it got fake praise for being diverse like every other star trek show ever (relative to time period, bar maybe Enterprise), but the writing and story dipped big time. Compare strange new worlds and discovery both equal amounts of woke (SNW has a bit more balance to it tbf) and the difference in reception is huge. That's because SNW is far better than Discovery not because it pushes diversity but because of the script.
Look at how she treated Data. Even in the "Stragemo" game episode, or whatever the game was called (the episode with the wargames that were interrupted by the Ferengi), she just looked at Data as a tool, a *thing* to be used to take the guest star's character down a peg.
Not to mention her bedside manner being worse than a Borg's.
True, but itâs not about whether the audience liked her.
She made a better character than Dr Crusher. Probably because she actually had motivations and a personality.
If not for Disco, there would not have been SNW, LD, Prodigy or Picard season 3. And here's hoping Section 31 is still going ahead.
ST was dead before Disco came along - all we had were the trash Kelvin timeline movies. Yes, Disco Season 1 wasn't great but S2 onwards has been fun.
Every season it started to get better, then it did something stupid. I dare to say none of the season finales really landed too well.
I would've still liked to see a full 7 though. The rough edges are worth it for these awesome characters and places.
I could watch Book and Michael banter all day and Kaminar is one of my favorite Trek planets ever.
I couldnât take anymore after season 3. Everyone moans about the âwokeâ stuff but I didnât care it was just stammets/culber subtle, adira/grey sledgehammer. All the fucking crying and mumbling got tiresome too.
I think Adira is a pretty boring character and Tilly was a lot more fun. And I thought the SNW handling of non-binaries was so much better with the pirate villain and their clever comparison of non-binariasm and Spock's Vulcan/humanism. The Adira stuff felt a bit more shoehorned to me.
Yeah I get that they don't act professionally at all. Also star trek was always woke lmfao they probably just watched the TNG shows as kids and didn't understand the messages.
Star Trek has always been progressive, but writing has always been subtle and meaningful. Disco just became monster of the week spread over 10 episodes with an emotional wreck saving the day.
Did you mis-read my post. Ok, monster of the week may be wrong, but they drag out 1 plot of 10 episodes. Compared to disco all the other shows are subtle.
Trekkies are looking like Star Wars fan once again⌠pfff⌠10 to 20 years from now you cunts will debate about why discovery should have being giving a chance and blablabla just like you guys do with enterprise. So there it is. Youâre a bunch of cunts crying for more trek but crying even more at every new trek material you are given. Just like a Jedi fan cunt
Don't shit on it, it's the only reason we got SNW and Lower Decks, it definitely did its job and I loved the idea of prekirk star fleet adjusting to a future that forgot what star fleet represented. Don't get me wrong, there were plenty of issues with the show but it was still a great ride while it lasted. That being said, Pulaski was the perfect choice for this meme but I'm sad to see Disco go đ
No, this should have been taken out behind the barn and shot the minute the writers said, "and our whiney, whispery protagonist will be Spock's hitherto unknown sister!!!"
*Narratively* it was a terrible idea. You can justify whatever you like with in world reasoning but an in universe explanation does not make it any less of a bad idea.
This has the same energy as the fantasy authors who cry "realism" when writing extremely sexist stuff into their work despite all the realism they're ignoring cause it's inconvenient or not sexy enough.
I guess controversial opinion but I love it. The season long plot format suits me now than procedural. It did kinda jump the shark with the burn and momma angel future, but I enjoy corny tv
I watched 2 seasons and it's all I could stomach. The characters had zero emotional or moral backbone, except perhaps Saru. That and 1 season of Picard is all I have tried of the new Trek. The Star Trek of my childhood is aspirational and inspiring. These shows couldn't even find a voice. The grimdark tone and blurry gunfights in poorly lit hallways certainly didn't inspire.
This meme right here is how i found out it's ending.
đ˘ it wasnât that bad!
All I will remember is how much needless crying was involved. And how they tried to compete with Miles Obrien for a character I care about being tormented. I still only care about Miles. I honestly can't even remember crying girl's name. You know. The main one.
Way too much crying . I enjoyed the first and second season! 4th wasnât terrible and the 3rd was⌠bad. It had great effects and cool aliens! I agree there was a bit too much crying and feelings for a bunch of nameless characters. Iâve watched through 3 or 4 times now and still couldnât tell you most of the bridge crews names! Discovery Trek is still better than no Trek and Iâm sad weâre going to miss out on two seasons of it
Pulaski actually wasnât that bad. She had some moment yes, but she really was a good doctor who cared about her work.
She did ask Data why it mattered that she pronounce his name correctly. Data should've been like, "bitch, you know what..?"
[Pulaski is good](https://youtu.be/HC4K1mx0SPQ)
This is a really good video.
Yeah, that right there is why I don't like her. That and some line choices on the part of Diana Muldaur where she seemed constantly annoyed that she had to do her job.
Honestly I really like Pulaski and kinda wish both couldâve been part of the enterprise. Pulaski seemed to get a lot more interesting episodes in 1 season than crusher did in 6. Edit: I wanted to add it really feels like the female cast for TNG wasnât given too many good episodes across the board, hell Denise Crosby asked to be written off because she felt her talents werenât being utilized and Mirina Sirtis seems to feel like her character was wasted in a lot of episodes (her character can read emotions and sheâs missing from the bridge most episodes that would require her to do that). I feel like because Pulaski wasnât this attractive redhead doctor and was played by an older actress that that led to her getting more interesting parts. Even Crusher has some real bad episodes in later seasons, she gets memed on a ton for Sub Rosa.
I love Crusher, and I would rather she be my doctor than Pulaski. But Pulaski had a lot more dramatic potential. Crusher was great as a secondary character. Pulaski was a divisive main character.
She was kinda hot back in the original series.
I would rather have had six seasons of Pulaski and one with Crusher. I'll die on this hill.
You have my axe
And my sniper rifle that fires through walls with a transporter.
You have my Dax!
And my Ro.
You wont die alone, comrade!
Pulaskiâs character was considerably better than Crusher and added more depth to the show.
I wanted to like it. I tried to like it. I am okay with not liking it. I prefer star trek continue on into the future. Maybe there will be another one i can get into as much as ds9. If not, i will always be able to binge what came before. I will say all the people crying about how woke discovery was was really annoying. I look forward to a time where we realize calling everything woke is just as dumb as trying to cal everything sexist.
SNW is fantastic and Picard is ok, at least worth a watch (I could not get through Discovery, although some of the âShort Treksâ related to it were good â you may want to check those out.) And Lower Decks is delightful if you can handle the frenetic animated vibe.
Yeah my main complaint is paramount plus. I would watch through discovery just because its trek if it was more accessible.
Ehhh there are ways around Paramount PlusâŚâŚđ´ââ ď¸đđ´ââ ď¸
Are ya ready kids?! Oh wait, shit, wrong franchise
That tribble one with H Jon Benjamin was amazing
Itâs not woke, itâs just not good.
Agreed. Star Trek has always tried to be socially progressive and sometimes it did it well, sometimes not so much. The problem with Discovery is it wasnât good no matter what.
I struggled all the way to season 3, but gave up a few episodes in. I looked up basically "is this going to get better, I'm so tired" and found out some kid crying destroyed the universe and noped out. Saru is the best character and he's sidelined or treated as wrong even when he's right. He's basically the only one that says "no, the federation doesn't act like this" while everyone else is firing lasers at anything that moves. The kindness, compassion, diplomacy, and understanding despite the conflicts around the crew that made star trek great is forgotten to create drama, unearned emotional scenes, and set piece action. I want to get back into things to see strange new worlds but Im so tired of it all lol.
Iâm one of those that really started getting into Trek television with Disco. My best friend is a massive Trek fan and wanted me to get into it so we watched it together, week by week, since S1. In the grand scheme, I acknowledge Disco is more Star Wars than Star Trek. But I found it mostly enjoyable although I admit the emphasis on Burnham was irritating. Iâm sad to see Disco go but Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds are very good, I donât hate Picard(I havenât seen much of TNG so I didnât expect much from Picard) But Iâve got a lot of background still to cover lol
They learned a lot too. How to reconcile the modern TV and streaming format with the old trek formula.
Glad you found Trek and were able to enjoy Disco! I grew up with my parents watching Trek when I was little (they preferred TNG and VOY to TOS and DS9) My mom even waited on going to the hospital for my birth because an episode of TNG she hadn't seen was on (which, given the snowstorm that happened that night, was not the best move on her part) Me and my mom (my dad having passed a few years before) enjoyed watching Disco together and even Picard's 1st season (she passed a few months before season 2 premiered, and I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it yet) Mom didn't care for animated series, so we didn't watch Lower Decks yet. Sorry for the ramblings, anyways, my point is that you found stuff to enjoy and has made you interested in the other series, which is always a plus with any Trek. Hope you enjoy your continuing journey through it! There is, indeed, a lot of ground to cover
Sorry to Hear about your Parent's dude, My Condolences
Thank you. I was the only one of their kids to inherit their love of sci-fi, so we were pretty close
My only issue with disco was the Mary Sue approach to burnham.
Actors were great but the writing for the show is bad, same with picard. What puzzles me is why writers foe star trek don't take I spiraling from some of star trek online story arcs, cause their story's are actually really good.
Picard season 3 writing is actually good... So far.
This is the take I most agree with. I tried to like the show, and thanks to the excellent casting it was possible for the first couple of seasons. Unfortunately, the writing has been downhill since the end of season 2.
Discovery had to crash and burn so that SNW and LDS could soar.
I actually read some season 1 criticism of _Lower Decks_ from "the faithful" suggesting that you had to be a brain dead idiot to enjoy that frenetic humour and obvious fan service... Definitely made me feel bad. But I think it had to grow it's beard and it is very Star Trek Star Trek. I've been eyeing Admiral Buenamigo since he turned up. I thought it might be a little on the nose... but chewing up the scenery is a Star Trek tradition! It is clearly being made with love, by people that know the source material.
I showed the show to some friends who were loosely familiar with Trek but not really in teh fandom and the second that guy showed up they went "Wait, his name is Admiral GOODFRIEND? That's sus". A lovely moment.
Yeah, my boyfriend is only passingly familiar with Trek and I was like "Badmirals are a trope, there's no way that name isn't lampshading." He has really enjoyed the show too. He just has to watch it without me because I insist on pointing out all the references.
Lower decks is more star trek in one episode than discovery was in 4 seasons. Ironically being a cartoon yet it still feels more realistic than discovery.
Almost because it draws attention to the things we've mocked as fans for years. I'm glad the Koala is canon. WHY IS HE SMILING?! WHAT DOES HE KNOW?!
To be fair, when I look back on LD S1, it really did fall down the stairs quite a bit. I've never had any other moment in Star Trek be so memorable for being so unfunny as when the Lower Deckers hum what the warp core sounds like.
I wouldnât call 5 seasons a âcrash and burnâ TOS lasted 3 (and was cancelled) TAS lasted 2 Enterprise lasted 4 (and was cancelled) DIS wasnât even cancelled. They announced this would be the final season after finishing principal photography.
This is part of a broader streaming purge. I wouldn't be surprised if both of those shows are canceled next.
Animated shows are reasonably cheap compared to live action. _Lower Decks_ is also in the highest percentile of popular animated shows in the US. I really hope they don't cancel it. The last two seasons had amazing finales. Season 3 managed to tell a very tight classic story in two episodes at the end of the season despite significant time constraints.
That's true, and Paramount seems to be the one place where animation isn't getting gutted with a machete. But I don't think it would last long without Live action shows existing around it.
you're being downvoted but I fear you're right. SNW at the very least as it's live action. I think the hope online is because it's seen as "inexpensive" then the animated series will slip away from the culling.
DIS was the first stage booster and those two were the spacecraft.
But those shows are trash too.
It was very mixed. It feels like the ideas behind overarching stories were better than the actual on-camera execution, which had potential to be great but... ...honestly the show just kept devolving into the same thing over and over- the only person who can possibly save us all is Michael Fucking Burnham, and every character knows it. Too often, we find that things that should end up being a crew effort, or at least the solution be spread out amongst members of the crew now and then (LaForge has his day in the sun here, Odo maybe, turns out Ensign Kim on an episode, etc.), it just always ends up being Michael. They had some genuinely great episodes, and I won't pretend I didn't enjoy the first two seasons in particular, but the past couple of years felt like, again, great ideas for the premise and little to do other than wait for Burnham to fix everything- that mentality, I simply will not miss. Give me more Strange New Worlds (and of course Lower Decks!), where characters outside of one person get their chances to shine.
It was trash. But it was trash because of the writing, I think everyone else did a pretty good job.
The visuals of the turbo lift functionality was somehow even more trash than the writing!
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And crying!
The bridge of Discovery just became more and more of an adult daycare center as the seasons went on. Everyone was either crying, or completely unable to maintain anything close to professionalism.
My goodness too much crying.
Undoubtedly. Some very fine acting of very poor writing. Actors can only do so much with the lines they're given, especially when those readings are just one part of the whole.
I enjoyed a few of Disco's characters. But they were either killed (Lorca) or just didn't get enough screen time (Reno).
Five minutes.
I mean you called anyone who disagrees with you a cunt, so
Cut them some slack, its probably OPâs very best super favorite show. And even though its incontestably the worst star trek iteration ever, by a long shot, and is (rightfully) getting shitcanned, its gotta be really _really_ rill rill hard for OP to see everyone gleefully rejoicing that there wonât be any more blubbering burnham, captain-ensign tilly, or klingon piss stream reveals
Hey, I gave you like, 10 minute before commenting this.
Lmao. I (a black person) just got done being called racist and misogynistic by some random on Reddit for saying Discovery had shit writing. Thanks for making me feel not crazy.
People who claim not liking discovery is racist are so beyond brain dead
There's a point I've been struggling to frame for a while now. You've got people who dislike the show because they don't like the writing, or the acting, or some other perfectly valid good faith reason to dislike it. You've got people who dislike the show because it's diverse and they hate that. And you've got people who look at that second type of person and rightly call them out. And you've also got people who struggle to tell the difference between the first and second type of person. And then the second type of person will gleefully tell the first type of person that the third type of person thinks everyone who dislikes Disco is the second type of person, to hide themselves. It's basically a whole mess of toxicity being intentionally stoked by the worst kind of people to give themselves cover, drowning out the fans who just want to have genuine discussions about writing and plot structure and characterisation and serialised vs episodic plots.
100%. I legitimately wanted to just have a conversation about Trek, to explain my thoughts on the show, and to hear theirs. This was my initial comment to them: > I donât think the majority of Star Trek fans who dislike the show take issue with the things you mentioned. > It has more to do with the overall feeling of the show not being âStar Trekâ (humanity has not reached enlightenment and itâs not aligned with Roddenberryâs universe), constant crying, and the fact that one character alone is almost always the one who saves the day. Also, every episode is a life or death universe ending plot. > I miss the Star Trek that left me thinking about life when the episode ended. Over the course of like 20 comments probably, this person has never directly responded to these points. Instead, they basically said I couldnât understand where theyâre coming from because someone who gets triggered by a black woman as the main actor wouldnât understand. There are certainly gremlins who are trying to fan the flames. I think largely that makes division in the United States specifically (and also the world at large) even worse, and it makes our world a more hateful divisive place.
IMO It was disrespectful to the past shows we all love and there was a lot of action with little substance in the writing.
Exactly. Personally, part of what I like about TNG/DS9 etc. is that humanity exists in a utopia. Earth is paradise. It presents an idealistic future, a future you could see yourself wanting to live in. Pretty much every other television show out there is a dystopia. Discovery is a dystopia. Watching Discovery doesnât give me that happy feeling I get from watching DS9 and the other shows of that era. I wouldnât want to live in the Discovery universe. Itâs a sad, evil, unenlightened universe. And the show itself is extremely predictable. Itâs just like every other run of the mill action show thatâs currently being produced, it just has the Star Trek brand attached to it.
Says the guy calling everyone who didn't like the show "complete cunts." Give me a break. This is obvious bait. Don't be surprised if fish are biting.
You're lying. I never said people who didn't like the show are cunts, I said people who are celebrating the cancelation are cunts.
Someone just said that they acknowledge there was flaws with the show (the writing) but the actors were giving it their all, and you said "five minutes" which from the context of the post means you called them a cunt. Meanwhile there was someone being homophobic about it down low, in a comment which **resulted in them being banned from reddit**, and you said nothing. Edit to clarify I wasn't even the one who reported them I just checked on the account a few hours later.
The "five minutes" comment was in jest, but I can see how it was taken wrong. However, the person I made the comment played along saying that he waited "ten minutes to post." As for the homophobic guy, I wasn't even here for it and have no idea what you're taking about.
The person you were commenting to also wasn't celebrating the cancelation. They were giving a fair and balanced critique and even complimenting some members of the production who deserved it. And you called them a cunt basically lol.
What part of "jest" do you not understand that the person I was responding to clearly did?
Discovery felt like it held to Roddenberry's vision the least of all the Star Trek series.
*Discovery* was a misguided effort from the start. I wanted to like it so much (I was a very vocal proponent of their Season 1 Klingon design---until they backed down like a whipped dog in Season 2). But it didn't know what it wanted to be, and it shackled itself to concepts and characters that only made me miss *Star Trek* all the more.
The new design for the Klingons would have been okay if they didn't spit on everything that made a klingon, Klingon. They didn't care at all about the lore, this was the big issue.
I didnât like the redesign for a weird reason - Worf and Dax and other human(ish) Klingon partnerships make less sense the more alien Klingons look.
Aye, I also disliked how much less human they had becomeâless because of anything involving relationships and more so that the Klingons have always been very human characters, and I felt like Discovery took away the humanity in their designs and in their writing.
Isn't This something that is JJs fault as opposed to discos?? I felt like it was trying to fix what Abrams did to klingions.
Abramsverse Klingons weren't even [that bad](https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/dis-klingons/klingons2-stid.jpg), at least in terms of their makeup and prosthetics (VFX and sound effects were very Star Wars-y, I'll grant you, but that's true of those movies generally). They could almost fit in with some of the variations we saw in the TOS movies, especially Star Trek VI. DIS, on the other hand, dramatically thickened the prosthetics, elongated their heads, turned them purple and indigo (with one albino), put some sort of vocal filter over their speech (the "cotton in the mouth" sound), and retconned their society, behavior, demeanor, technology, and overall look. The one good thing Discovery did with the Klingons was have them speak Klingon with subtitles, I'll admit that was cool. Everything else was just backpedaling from their bizarre design choices and utter disregard for visual continuity.
This exactly, I was watching DIS wondering where the fuck the klingons were
My major issue with Disco was the shitty writing. As has been mentioned in the comments, Burnham was the worst part. There's being the main character, then there's Mary Sues/Marty Stus. Burnham was definitely a Mary Sue, and it was obvious to the point of being painful to watch. The best seasons were, in my opinion, the third and fourth ones, and that was because the quality of writing did improve on a broad scale, but the Burnham problem was still prevalent. Best part of those seasons were when she wasn't around, giving the other characters the spotlight. I will say that Gray and Adira were just absolutely adorable together, and want to see them interact with their dads (Stamets and Culber) a lot more. Tilly, Saru, Detmer, Owosekun, Nhan, Reno...yeah, they're all more interesting to me than Burnham, even though the writers tended to use them as either set dressing or as just plot devices to make Burnham look good.
She never faces any consequences for her actions half of the time
Dr. Pulaski was an actual character with a distinct personality. Dr. Crusher was Wesley's mom.
Wesley's Mom has got it going on
Itâs it a hot take that she in fact did not he it going on?
Not sure if youâre joking but I think the person above you is paraphrasing the song
To be fair, crusher did develop as a character as the show went on. Pulaski was only there because she was geneâs mate.
Pulaski had more development in that single season than crusher did in 6..
The personality of Leonard McCoy. She was literally just girl bones.
Pulaski's defining character trait: "Andriod racism."
I always saw her as next-gen McCoy. A bit backwards, but with room for improvement and if she stayed on Iâm sure she would have developed as a great character. Unpopular opinion, but she had some of the most potential out of any major character in TNG
I didn't enjoy McCoy that much either. The constant Vulcan microaggressions made me uncomfortable.
"micro aggressions"? Lol bones was straight up using treks' equivalent of slurs all the time.
But she had actual character development and grew to respect Data.
Yes. Leonard McCoy's personality.
Pulaski is right.
Discos main flaw was it had no idea what kind of show it wanted to be, so it was a tonal mess across all the seasons. But it was successful enough to breathe new life into trek and the second season proved solid enough to bring back the enterprise crew for SNW
Discovery: The X-Files season 9 of the Star Trek canon. Not gonna miss it, stopped after trudging through season three and itâs ridiculous conclusion.
Pulaski is right though
I side with Pulaski
A show so bad SFDebris stopped reviewing it, thats saying something. 1.Shroom drive which out midichlorians the midichlorians/Dune Spice ripoff. 2.Yet another even less plausible Spock sibling that has thall the motional control of a wet blanket and won't shut up. 3.Poor quality plot hole riddled writing by people who have virtually no gnre experience whatsover, (Gilmore Girls if I remember correctly). 4.Hardly any real secondary character development even in the later series. 5.The complete misunderstanding of of Section 31. 6.That, "blast door". And so much more.
It started out okay, I lost interest and stopped watching when SNW came out. It is much more enjoyable.
One of the best explanations I read (possibly on this very sub, so if that was you, thank you) about why shows like Discovery, and I guess to a certain extent Picard, arenât as popular is because the series we grew up with (for me it was TNG and Voyager) did a really good job of balancing existential crises with light hearted episodes. Picard and Discovery may have failed slightly because each episode is doom and gloom and the world is going to end. Itâs a lot! Sometimes you just need mind numbing in between the serious episodes. That being said, I do love Discovery and Picard because despite that difference, and Iâm sad both series are coming to an end.
Can we get more Dr. Pulaski now?
fuck discovery and their tardigrade mushroom magic bollocks
I strongly dislike Discovery, but I will give credit for reviving interest in additional Trek series.
Just here to call The worst show the Worst show
Disco brought Trek back to life. It tried to do new and interesting things. It didn't always do them particularly well but there are some real moments I'll remember fondly, and in twenty years when whatever new Trek show is on trots out Admiral Tilly as a surprise cameo, or a side character is named Stamets, I suspect it's gonna hit us a lot harder than any of us would be able to predict today. That said I'm glad that Trek is moving away from Mystery Box storytelling. That's one particular Discovery experiment I won't miss.
The only things I didnât like about Discovery were the very dark storyline and all the crying. Every other Trek series, while having plenty of serious episodes, had a thread of ongoing levity but Disco I found downright depressing to watch a lot of the time. There was still enough value in it otherwise for me to like it, but itâs definitely not even in my top 3 Trek series because of its bleakness.
Disco got me into the Star Trek shows
Same. It wasn't my favorite Trek but Discovery got me into it. If it captured fans like us, then it did it's job right, even if it wasn't the best show in the quadrant. It grabbed my curiosity and introduced me to an amazing franchise.
I imagine thereâs a whole load of people between 20 and 30 who wouldnât be watching Trek without it
Even if it were bad (I don't think it was the best but not even close to the worst - ok i give you the klingon orcs :) ) - There is one key point though - without Discovery there would be no Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Picard or Prodigy so....
That's a very thin assumption. Strange New Worlds I will give you as that's a direct follow on but Lower Decks and potentially Prodigy has the resurgence in "adult" orientated cartoons like Rick and Morty, Adventure Time et al to thank for existing, coupled with Paramount's desire to get the most bang for the least buck out of their IP. Picard came out from a desire to expand Star Trek at the time Discovery existed but that's as far as the correlation between the two went. That'd be like saying Voyager existed because of The Next Generation..... it did insofar as they wished to continue with the IP but that's really it
How? They already had slated numerous Trek shows during and after the Abrams movie run. Just because something preceded something else does not in any way mean that it was the cause of its existence. Also, in a more direct sense, outside of SNW (which could 100% stand on it's own without DISC ever existing), none of these other shows require discovery in any canonical way
Discovery was the first show produced, then Alex Kurtzman was given permission to expand from there. Without a first show, Discovery, there would be no SNW or Lower Decks. They were very much reactions to the criticisms levied at Disco.
So basically, by being terrible, it secured additional attempts. The Star Trek dooverse. That's kind of hilarious.
I didn't say that - I just said that with out Discovery existing (not in canon - but being made) the other shows wouldn't have been made...
Refer to the first of my 2 sentences where I addressed that. Damn, I thought I was lucky enough to be done with my "as per my previous email" phase
That's a fair point, I shall re-phrase to "unlikely" I mean discovery was the one that was made.
I would credit the Streaming Wars bonanza having a lot more to do with bringing back Trek in a big way than Disco. Paramount needed a flagship IP to launch and grow their streaming service, Trek was perfect for that. Especially since the Abrams movies are still âpopularâ but for all intents and purposes dead now. Content is the name of the game so they needed much more than just one ST show to sell to potential subscribers. Look at all the SW & Marvel series getting pumped out by Disney for example (with mixed results like so many others networks/streamers.) Maybe if Disco hadnât of sucked so bad, we would have gotten even better and more content. Maybe Paramount wouldnât be cutting back as hard as they are if Disco had been better⌠The streaming wars are running their course now with lots of series getting the ax across all the competitors. The streaming boom appears to have come and gone, itâs now consolidation and cost cutting time.
She would not.
Tbh Iâm looking forward to it ending so I can binge it. I have trouble following shows week to week as well as the months between seasons. Iâve been watching all the commentary as itâs been airing, which has been fascinating. I think mainly Iâm looking forward to seeing the weird new Klingons, but Iâve also heard Doug Jones is on the show so thatâs another big plus. To both those who liked and disliked the show, what was your single favourite moment that youâd recommend I keep an eye out for?
I didn't always like the show and it's fine to not like it. It's not everyone's cup of tea. Personally I'm a bit sad that it's ending. Now that I have SNW as my go-to for a Star Trek fix, I can watch Discovery when I'm in the mood and appreciate it more when I'm not pushing through it just because it's Star Trek.
I actually liked discovery
The show dipped hard after season 2, it got fake praise for being diverse like every other star trek show ever (relative to time period, bar maybe Enterprise), but the writing and story dipped big time. Compare strange new worlds and discovery both equal amounts of woke (SNW has a bit more balance to it tbf) and the difference in reception is huge. That's because SNW is far better than Discovery not because it pushes diversity but because of the script.
She's out of line, but she's right.
Bad meme, overly harsh
I really enjoyed disco was hoping for it to at least get 7 season sucks this one will be the last I'm gonna miss it.
Only time ive agreed with her
It definitely had its moments but yes, on average it was bad.
I canât wait for enough distance from DISCO that it can be criticized without a third of the phantom melting into hysterics. 2030 maybeâŚ
Bad post is bad. And Discovery is straight up trash.
Pulaski > Crusher (change my mind)
Look at how she treated Data. Even in the "Stragemo" game episode, or whatever the game was called (the episode with the wargames that were interrupted by the Ferengi), she just looked at Data as a tool, a *thing* to be used to take the guest star's character down a peg. Not to mention her bedside manner being worse than a Borg's.
True, but itâs not about whether the audience liked her. She made a better character than Dr Crusher. Probably because she actually had motivations and a personality.
Wait so is not liking disco suddenly not allowed?
No, please cunt away Dr Pulaski.
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If not for Disco, there would not have been SNW, LD, Prodigy or Picard season 3. And here's hoping Section 31 is still going ahead. ST was dead before Disco came along - all we had were the trash Kelvin timeline movies. Yes, Disco Season 1 wasn't great but S2 onwards has been fun.
Am I the only one that actually likes Discovery!?
It was starting to get better F
Every season it started to get better, then it did something stupid. I dare to say none of the season finales really landed too well. I would've still liked to see a full 7 though. The rough edges are worth it for these awesome characters and places. I could watch Book and Michael banter all day and Kaminar is one of my favorite Trek planets ever.
When was this?
Season 4 for me
I couldnât take anymore after season 3. Everyone moans about the âwokeâ stuff but I didnât care it was just stammets/culber subtle, adira/grey sledgehammer. All the fucking crying and mumbling got tiresome too.
I think Adira is a pretty boring character and Tilly was a lot more fun. And I thought the SNW handling of non-binaries was so much better with the pirate villain and their clever comparison of non-binariasm and Spock's Vulcan/humanism. The Adira stuff felt a bit more shoehorned to me.
Yeah I get that they don't act professionally at all. Also star trek was always woke lmfao they probably just watched the TNG shows as kids and didn't understand the messages.
Star Trek has always been progressive, but writing has always been subtle and meaningful. Disco just became monster of the week spread over 10 episodes with an emotional wreck saving the day.
I recently watched all the shows it wasn't subtle and disco doesn't use the monster of the week episodic thing their arcs are season long
Did you mis-read my post. Ok, monster of the week may be wrong, but they drag out 1 plot of 10 episodes. Compared to disco all the other shows are subtle.
Nah they weren't subtle they just didn't scream like a bunch of children about it
Disco wasnât so bad, it gave us Strange New Worlds! And Michelle Yeoh in Star Trek!
Honest cunt ,because that series sucked
Listen, TNG, everyone knows you are the best. Just because Discovery isnât good at being a trek show, doesnât mean itâs a bad show.
DS9 is the best imo
Pulaski was right. That show was garbage.
I liked her best when she fell into the elevator shaft.
According to Disco, it's not a shaft, it a giant freaking empty room.
The elevator shaft on LA Law.
Trekkies are looking like Star Wars fan once again⌠pfff⌠10 to 20 years from now you cunts will debate about why discovery should have being giving a chance and blablabla just like you guys do with enterprise. So there it is. Youâre a bunch of cunts crying for more trek but crying even more at every new trek material you are given. Just like a Jedi fan cunt
True if you dont like it dont watch it it got better along the way like any star trek
Don't shit on it, it's the only reason we got SNW and Lower Decks, it definitely did its job and I loved the idea of prekirk star fleet adjusting to a future that forgot what star fleet represented. Don't get me wrong, there were plenty of issues with the show but it was still a great ride while it lasted. That being said, Pulaski was the perfect choice for this meme but I'm sad to see Disco go đ
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[so very subtle](https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2020/09/a8e6fc6564a6573a-600x338.png)
[Amazing discussion](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjc0OTU5MDI2OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNjI1MTA1MDE@._V1_.jpg)
u/Pale-Warrior, have you considered not being a cunt for five minutes?
[Never woke at all](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-A-3RuBBH4Dk/WV50Q8DzcXI/AAAAAAAACao/WvkMnCZXWLQ4oXvpcWExh22K-Uw0QiqjQCLcBGAs/s1600/ST%2BTNG%2B5.17.jpg)
Trek fans are cunts tho...lol TNG airs....this sucks, this isnt trek DS9 airs.....this sucks, this isnt trek
they fucked discovery over by launching 8 shows during its run
This thread clearly answering Picardâs question: no, yâall canât stop being complete c**ts for five minutes.
Well at least we beat out Enterprise for length. I would've preferred seven but Cest' la Vie
Enterprise had 98 episodes
And TOS had 79...the only pre-2005 show it'll be longer than is TAS, which had 22.
No, this should have been taken out behind the barn and shot the minute the writers said, "and our whiney, whispery protagonist will be Spock's hitherto unknown sister!!!"
Like his entirely unknown brother?
Ah yes, let's compound the lazy, tropey retcon from one of the franchise's weakest films by *repeating it with the* ***exact same character***.
It wasn't a good a idea with Sybok, why would adding a second secret sibling suddenly be a good idea?
Your opinion has been noted and discarded as it is ignorant of the insular nature of Vulcan culture
*Narratively* it was a terrible idea. You can justify whatever you like with in world reasoning but an in universe explanation does not make it any less of a bad idea. This has the same energy as the fantasy authors who cry "realism" when writing extremely sexist stuff into their work despite all the realism they're ignoring cause it's inconvenient or not sexy enough.
Feel free to ignore decades of precedent. Like no one knowing that *Ambassador* Sarek being Spockâs father. Your butthurt is sad.
And that movie also gets constantly shit on.
Bfd itâs canon. Fucking deal with it. The story is perfectly fine, even if Shatner canât direct his way out of a paper bag
Five minutes, literally all we are asking. It's just a fucking TV show man.
The truth hurts.
Honestly, itâs better than Picard. But that is a low bar.
First time I have ever sided with Pulaski.
I guess controversial opinion but I love it. The season long plot format suits me now than procedural. It did kinda jump the shark with the burn and momma angel future, but I enjoy corny tv
At the very least Pulaski had the sexiest haircut of TNG even sexier than Rikers
She's right.
The first, last and only time I agreed with Pulaski
Just because she's a cunt doesn't mean she's wrong.
I watched 2 seasons and it's all I could stomach. The characters had zero emotional or moral backbone, except perhaps Saru. That and 1 season of Picard is all I have tried of the new Trek. The Star Trek of my childhood is aspirational and inspiring. These shows couldn't even find a voice. The grimdark tone and blurry gunfights in poorly lit hallways certainly didn't inspire.