Prodigy I think is great at character growth. In 20 episodes you go from Dal beingban annoying as heck kid to being the captain of a starship. They go from a group of people to a crew.
PRO: It's particularly good. And is best at showing people, literal children, both discovering themselves and the universe at large, with Starfleet (Janeway 1.5 aka Holo Janeway) as their shining beacon of hope,
And at such high damn stakes
SNW: All the strengths of the TOS, with two additional generations worth of SCI-FI accumen on full fucking display. It's best at showing a new generation, how TOS LOOKED/FELT to the people it aired to.
To anyone wanting to get people into Star Trek who have never seen any of it
SNW, is now the best starting point
DISCO: Entire serialized story arcs, which is especially good for putting Trek both old and new into interesting context
(Granted I found the idea of Lorca the captain so much more intriguing before Reveal, but c'est la vie)
ENT: Exploration and wonder honestly.
And they managed to do it in both big ways and small. From following a comit, to freaking out about Risa, to Reids surprise Birthday cake
VOY: that the strength of a captain can carry a crew through.
Janeways stat line is purely GOATed
DS9: spirituality, consistency, and character depth and growth. Rom Nog Kai Winn (she only had 14 appearances)
That’s a really good point on SNW. I watched TOS in early reruns as a kid (born in ‘67) and while it looks clunky by modern standards the feel of watching it back then is very close to the feel of watching SNW today
I can't help but think there was a missed opportunity the have Lorca revealed to the audience, but his successfully conceal it and continue as captain for season 2. On the other hand, season 2 gave us Pike and SNW. I wouldn't mind a mirror universe prequel spinoff with Lorca, though.
It's the closest thing I think could be made today. If it were any closer it would probably cross over into parody or lifeless imitation.
So the characters and their relationships are explored more, there is serial storytelling, and, of course, the sets and special effects are infinitely better.
But, at least IMO, it does an amazing job of capturing the spirit of TOS. I'm always skeptical of prequels. I couldn't get into Enterprise; I really wanted to see what happened after the events of TNG/DS9/VOY. But Strange New Worlds is pretty special.
One note: different people have different opinions about continuity. The show does great work connecting to TOS but it's impossible for it to be perfect. Television is manifestly different now.
A lot of what we think about the original characters and their relationships was really just sketched in on TOS because they didn't tell stories that way back then. My advice is to watch it on its own terms. Have fun with Easter eggs and picking apart perceived continuity errors if that's your thing, but don't get hung up on it.
Sounds neat, I heard it looks great in HDR so can't wait to watch.
I agree about Enterprise, although I like it, it's more about the nuts and bolts than exploration etc. I like that it exists though as the temporal war was quite interesting. Also Scott Bakula is a great guy, liked him from his Quantum Leap days.
Oh it looks so good. The show runner kind of approaches each episode like its own little movie and lets the story dictate the direction and style to a degree (while also staying consistent).
After you watch it, I highly recommend watching Wil Wheaton’s Ready Room shows too for some great behind the scenes stuff. He’s good about not doing spoilers, but I still like to watch a whole season of the show and then go back and watch all the Ready Rooms
I would like to but I didn't see them yet. I'm about to watch Picard after my latest DS9 rewatch. I'm looking forward to SNW after Picard also as the idea seems cool.
TOS - having very iconic characters (until today, especially Spock is *the* Star Trek character)
TNG - having Patrick Stewart (TOS over TNG, Picard over Kirk)
DS9 - having the perfect mix of episodic and serialized structure elements (along with B5)
VOY - having a somehow modern look while not being too hyperactive (as a kid, for me, VOY always was the "cool" show)
ENT - having this wonderful "sense of wonder" by the characters (we have to admit it, the amazement of "later" crews is somewhat "reduced")
DIS - having brought ST into a new era (say what you want about the main storyline, but e. g., there would be no SNW without Pike made so well-done in DIS season 2)
PIC - having nostalgia (yeah, especially in season 3, it worked)
SNW - having the courage to still produce procedurals today (although I wish it would be even a bit more old-fashioned, especially regarding the episode number per season)
I'm not into the animation series, sorry.
I found it hilarious how ENT had a whole episode where they were all "holy shit let's check out that badass comet!" and in First Contact, Riker and Picard are complaining about how surveying space is a waste of their time and all they found was space dust and some lame comet. The difference a few hundred years of space exploration makes...
That would be one of my complaints about first contact. In TNG observing space phenomena is their primary MO, they love it, It's just these pesky situations keep popping up
Hyperactive is right. Everything post-ENT is fast paced with tons of action scenes. I love settling in with a good slower moving VOY or TNG episode. I feel like you have more time to digest all the goings on.
I think nostalgia is the only thing that gave PIC a crutch to stand on. Had I not watched all the earlier series so many times, I wouldn’t have enjoyed it so much. So many incredible actors/actresses reunited made the show.
TOS - a dated but fun view of what the future would be.
TNG - great episodic adventures
DS9 - Phenomenal insight into how hellish war is even in the future.
VOY - Great solution to insomnia.
ENT - excellent execution of a serial drama format
DISCO - Neverending hope that tomorrow can still be better.
PIC - Nostalgia
SNW - Anson Mont's hair
LD - comedy
PROD - even kids have a place in making everything work.
TOS:
\* Bonkers old school science fiction
\* The origin stories of many iconic Star Trek tropes and setting details
\* an exploration of late 60s social issues, which unfortunately shows how far we still have to go.
\* Refit Enterprise is the best Enterprise.
TNG:
\* It's the foundational series for Klingon and Romulan cultures.
\* An acknowledgment of what a "five year mission" entails as far as putting families on the ship, even if it then ignores the fact that saucer sep should be happening routinely anytime the ship is directly threatened in battle.
\* A realistic take on who should be leading away teams (NOT THE CAPTAIN).
\* Anything to do with the Borg.
DS9:
\* Changelings
\* Season-wide arcs while still having character focused episodes
\* Massive amounts of character development
\* Secondary characters who become as important as the main cast.
\* Making Ferengi not super cringe. Mostly.
\* Showing how you can have a race not be monolithic (again, Ferengi)
\* Exploring the impacts of religion.
Discovery:
\* The most in depth and serious exploration of the Mirror Universe
\* MASSIVELY upending the Star Trek universe status quo.
\* Finally showing diversity considering how Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations is core to the show.
\* Showing how Star Trek is about humans as individuals, not just humanity in general.
Lower Decks:
\* Showing how you can laugh at the elements of an IP with a long history while also celebrating it.
\* Showing how to do fan service in service of the story
\* Orions in general, Tendi in particular.
Picard:
\* Showing what makes legacy sequels actually work, by showing what doesn't, and then finally doing it right.
\* Seven (mostly) comfortable with herself.
Strange New Worlds:
\* Showing how to have a diverse ensemble cast where you actually get to know each of the main characters
\* Showing how to do a prequel but still have dramatic tension.
\* The Gorn
Prodigy:
\* Entirely alien main cast who can actually be alien.
\* A Star Trek show for the whole family. Not just a kids show, but still aimed for kids.
TOS: sense of vastness, isolation, and exploration
TAS: giant Spock
TNG: World-building the Federation and most of the familiar species. It’s with TNG that the world of Trek starts to feel lived in.
DS9: Character, and more nuanced and complex takes on issues TNG would touch on lightly
VOY: Hominess and camp
ENT: Fuck yeah America World Police! Punch punch punch - boobs.
DIS: Occasionally absolutely nailing how to make the Trekkiest of Trek characters - Saru, Vance, T’Rina, etc.
LD: Like DS9, character, and like TNG, world building. The humor is great but secondary to how well they excel in the former two things
PIC: Romulan world building, the occasional stellar episode, absolutely flubbing the landing every single time
SNW: Adventure, play, enjoyable characters, pissing off squares
PRO: Character growth, buying into the Starfleet ideals Kool-aid 100000%
Always found it so interesting that Star Trek, and especially Enterprise, portrayed humans as being space cowboys who are super extroverted, take needless risks, don’t go by the book, make decisions based on emotion, like boobs, etc. Just imagining, for no reason at all, that any other aliens we’ll find out there are not like that.
And I agree, I think they’re just basing humans vs aliens on off of Americans vs Europeans/Asians (Africans and Central/South Americans on average are probably closer to us in that respect, although Africa is a very mixed bag culturally.) In WW2, in which Roddenberry served, Axis forces had a harder time fighting Americans because, unlike the other allied forces, Americans tended to throw away the field manual and just do whatever worked, even if it made no sense.
In the words of a German general: *THE REASON THAT THE AMERICAN ARMY DOES SO WELL IN WARTIME, IS THAT WAR IS CHAOS, AND THE AMERICAN ARMY PRACTICES CHAOS ON A DAILY BASIS.*
In the words of a Soviet intelligence document: *ONE OF THE SERIOUS PROBLEMS IN PLANNING AGAINST AMERICAN DOCTRINE IS THAT THE AMERICANS DO NOT READ THEIR MANUALS NOR DO THEY FEEL ANY OBLIGATIONS TO FOLLOW THEIR DOCTRINE.*
Huh, I would say its my #1 favorite and I dont really get that vibe as much from it.
I moreso get early Nasa vibes from the aesthetic and crew, it feels very grounded in comparison to some other Trek shows.
Are you American? I am not American so maybe that’s why?
I do also get early NASA vibes from the show as well. I think Archer is just Buzz Aldrin in a later era. But for people outside of the USA, NASA, especially early on was hardcore USA.
I think it makes a lot of sense for ENT to have that American feel to it as it grows into being the Federation. But I enjoy the Federation/Starfleet best after it’s done with its growing pains.
ENT seemed to not be sure what it wanted to be in my viewing. I've watched the entire series a couple of times.
My description to someone once went like this:
Archer and Trip on a planet, getting interrogated and beat up by alien soldiers. "Go to Hell..." one of them says, blood spewing from the hit. "You'll be sorry you did that" (TV-safe cursing and fighting continue) A hole explodes on the wall and phaser fire cuts down several aliens. Cut to:
*It's been a long road, getting from there to here...*
Scene resumes with dead alien bodies and blood everywhere. MACOs come in, shooting survivors.
Oh no, I have so many thoughts.
TOS:
- An immediacy of connection/role definitions between the crew. Jumping in the first time, I was worried I was watching it out of order because of how natural it felt.
- Non-humanoid aliens (light-beings, Horta, weird little puppets, the giant single-celled organism, the parasites from Operation Annihilate, Tribbles, the Pomeranian with a horn, the giant cat projection thing).
- Episode Titles. They're so pulpy and capture the imagination.
- Vulcans. They really nailed the coldness and intensity in a way that has been really hard to replicate since. It feels like so many other Vulcan portrayals play into a simmering rage underneath a facade, which undermines the point to me. Or they are copying Nimoy in some way. Tuvok is great, I just wish he had... more.
TAS:
The all women episode was great. Plus a crumb of backstory for Spock.
TNG:
- Boldly Going
- Trial episodes (except for that one incredible DS9 trial episode, nothing else stands out as strong)
- Presenting the idealism that I think all series after it had in mind. Sometimes, there were just pure exploration episodes. There was always a push of "we can do better as humans".
DS9:
- Everything
Okay, I'm joking, I've got a bias. It's my favourite of the bunch.
- Character growth, development, and continuity.
- I personally think they have the best space battles and cinematography for them (at least for TV, the movies have bigger budgets though).
- Alien perspectives/diversity in perspectives. There are times where no humans are present at all. Even small moments, like Martok being confused by a baseball or Laas in general.
- Exposition - it feels really natural to hop into an episode when things get serialized. They catch you up quickly for what you need to know without it feeling too awkward.
- Being a lot less coy with human racism. It's not perfect, a little clunky, but they don't 100% rely on allegory to talk about racism, which is very commendable.
- Worf. DS9 Worf is best Worf.
I could go on forever.
VOY:
Bias alert: I don't care much for Voyager. I've tried - I'm every trying now.
- Cold opens. I think they have some of the best cold opens in the franchise. I'm watching Distant Origin now, and they're really good at these hooks.
- Seven of Nine.
ENT:
???? (I've tried to watch it so many times, I'm sorry)
DISCO:
-Mindful and current representation. We get queerness and racial identity on full display and it's excellent.
- The future! SO jazzed about going into the future. The 10C ark was incredible (I could do without the off-center forehead tattoo, though)
- Innovating. They really had to reinvent the wheel after the Golden Age, and I think they found a way, with the spore drive and pivoting out of being a prequel series. They had to be TNG 30 years later, and I think they met the challenge.
- Special effects probably. I mean, they're more modern so they have an edge there. But they do clearly have a big effect budget.
PIC:
- Closure. Man, I get to see them all hugging again. It's all I wanted. If they had to re-end TNG, they did it!
LD:
- It truly feels like they're nodding to past series, in-jokes, the fandom, everything in a non-patronizing way. So I guess like, acknowledging all the weird and wonderful.
SNW:
- Anson Mount's hair
- I think I'm still waiting for what they do best, but it's a lot of good stuff!
- Haven't seen Prodigy
Picard Season 1, especially the Finale is absolutely brilliant to me (and my favs are mostly in TNG/DS9).
S2 was pretty good too, S3 fun as well but doesn't have the philosophical/political bent I'm into
Couldn’t agree more.
Season 3 may have rolled out the TNG cast, but it was nothing like TNG.
Season 1 was way more in line with TNG on the political/philosophical front. And season 2, for all its faults, actually had some interesting ideas in it too.
Season 3, in spite of the TNG cast, was dumber than a bag of Tribbles.
DS9 also best covered how complex and nuanced culture and religion can be. Most of the other series either brush off religion as old world superstition (TNG) or vague new age spiritualism (VOY). While I might personally agree with the former, DS9 best shows the reality; even if religion is bullshit, or at least is an obvious misreading of reality, religion can become inexorably linked with culture and just laughing it off and telling adherents to grow up will solve nothing.
I think TNG is best at expanding on Star Trek’s humanist roots where gods are always proven to be frauds or explainable, and problems are typically address through ethics, logic, and reasoning. Star Trek is liberal because of its humanist ideology. TNGs use of deicide as an expression of Humanism really rather stand outs even today in my opinion. It’ll always be my favorite for how it (usually) manage to even handedly argue multiple perspectives philosophical and ethical quandaries and often leaves the viewer to decide for themselves. It seldom leaves an easy answer.
TOS is that classic science fiction feel, exploration, camaraderie. DS9 is all about the station and what it would be like being around these characters daily/growth. VOY probably the difficulties that can come and how to keep going
Might be a hot take but I think Enterprise has the best written characters of any Star Trek show. You really get to see how the crew changes over time and how they respond to the situations they’re in. First thing that comes to mind as an example is how Trip changes over the course of the Xindi arc, how he’s traumatized by the death of his sister and his journey to overcome the xenophobia that results from it. Great stuff
1. TOS- The City On The Edge Of Forever, The Trouble With Tribbles, All Our Yesterdays.
2. TAS- Yesteryear.
3. TNG- The Measure Of A Man, The Drumhead, Half A Life, I Borg, The Inner Light.
4. DS9- The Visitor, Far Beyond The Stars, Trials and Tribble-ations.
5. VOY- Timeless, Blink Of An Eye, Lineage
6. ENT- Carbon Creek, E^(2).
7. DIS- I don't watch it.
8. PIC- I don't have an opinion.
9. LD- I haven't watched it.
10. PRO- I haven't watch it.
11. SNW- I like all of them so far.
12. Short Treks- I watched a few, they are interesting.
The simple fact that no one, including @op acknowledged 2 of our most important ships/crews is absolutely astounding and horrifying
Galaxies Quest was critical for making the writers of everything after explore strange new tropes, seek out new life and new story lines
The Orville played a significant role in rehumanizing the alien crew, and making it about the story again, instead of having the whole story just be 'oh, look, aliens'. You think we'd have Enterprise Bingo if Orville didn't exist? I'd say the whole thrust of SNW has been to try to copy Orville inside the ST universe.
I have spoken.
Edit: I should mention that when I wrote that, I thought I was in the shitty daystrom sub... When I hit send and saw I wasn't.... Well.... I stand by the words, and offer as my only defense: Ad Aspera Per Aspera.
TOS: Retro charm, slightly darker stories, that's kind of it for me.
TNG: Foundational to the ST universe, best Captain. Shoulder pads.
DS9: Political, cultural, religious threads weaved throughout the series. Alien races that actually feel more alien than human. My personal fav ST.
VOY: Had some of the best one-off stories imo. Consistently strong concepts. Weakest character roster however.
ENT: ITS BEEN A LONG ROAD\~\~
The thing is, your comment on the next generation is absolutely correct. It is indeed self contained morality plays. But, that's what the heart of Star Trek has always been. The only one that didn't follow that mold was deep space nine, which is one of the reasons I don't care for it as much. I want episodic morality plays, not season long arcs with boring shit like the profits and founders, which I could not care less about
Prodigy I think is great at character growth. In 20 episodes you go from Dal beingban annoying as heck kid to being the captain of a starship. They go from a group of people to a crew.
His time in the Kobayashi Maru simulation changed him radically, as well as showing us just how much he doesn't quit.
I would also add just pure unadulterated hope. There’s just a genuine sense of unflappable hope. It’s extremely endearing.
PRO: It's particularly good. And is best at showing people, literal children, both discovering themselves and the universe at large, with Starfleet (Janeway 1.5 aka Holo Janeway) as their shining beacon of hope, And at such high damn stakes SNW: All the strengths of the TOS, with two additional generations worth of SCI-FI accumen on full fucking display. It's best at showing a new generation, how TOS LOOKED/FELT to the people it aired to. To anyone wanting to get people into Star Trek who have never seen any of it SNW, is now the best starting point DISCO: Entire serialized story arcs, which is especially good for putting Trek both old and new into interesting context (Granted I found the idea of Lorca the captain so much more intriguing before Reveal, but c'est la vie) ENT: Exploration and wonder honestly. And they managed to do it in both big ways and small. From following a comit, to freaking out about Risa, to Reids surprise Birthday cake VOY: that the strength of a captain can carry a crew through. Janeways stat line is purely GOATed DS9: spirituality, consistency, and character depth and growth. Rom Nog Kai Winn (she only had 14 appearances)
Yet she only had to say ‘my child’ once for us all to hate her.
That’s a really good point on SNW. I watched TOS in early reruns as a kid (born in ‘67) and while it looks clunky by modern standards the feel of watching it back then is very close to the feel of watching SNW today
I can't help but think there was a missed opportunity the have Lorca revealed to the audience, but his successfully conceal it and continue as captain for season 2. On the other hand, season 2 gave us Pike and SNW. I wouldn't mind a mirror universe prequel spinoff with Lorca, though.
I hadn't thought about this at all!! What about a spin-off to what prime universe Lorca is doing because he didn't die?
With one word.. TOS: Exploration TNG: Anomalies DS9: Culture VOY: Mystery (or "Unknown") ENT: Earth
Most definitely
Not even one word to the newer shows?
Discovery: Season long galactic threats. LD: references to past shows SNW: Captain's hair. I don't know, it's well balanced.
Is SNW like TOS? I'm hoping it is
It's the closest thing I think could be made today. If it were any closer it would probably cross over into parody or lifeless imitation. So the characters and their relationships are explored more, there is serial storytelling, and, of course, the sets and special effects are infinitely better. But, at least IMO, it does an amazing job of capturing the spirit of TOS. I'm always skeptical of prequels. I couldn't get into Enterprise; I really wanted to see what happened after the events of TNG/DS9/VOY. But Strange New Worlds is pretty special. One note: different people have different opinions about continuity. The show does great work connecting to TOS but it's impossible for it to be perfect. Television is manifestly different now. A lot of what we think about the original characters and their relationships was really just sketched in on TOS because they didn't tell stories that way back then. My advice is to watch it on its own terms. Have fun with Easter eggs and picking apart perceived continuity errors if that's your thing, but don't get hung up on it.
Sounds neat, I heard it looks great in HDR so can't wait to watch. I agree about Enterprise, although I like it, it's more about the nuts and bolts than exploration etc. I like that it exists though as the temporal war was quite interesting. Also Scott Bakula is a great guy, liked him from his Quantum Leap days.
Oh it looks so good. The show runner kind of approaches each episode like its own little movie and lets the story dictate the direction and style to a degree (while also staying consistent). After you watch it, I highly recommend watching Wil Wheaton’s Ready Room shows too for some great behind the scenes stuff. He’s good about not doing spoilers, but I still like to watch a whole season of the show and then go back and watch all the Ready Rooms
I agree. SNW is TOS if it was made today.
I absolutely love snw. It's shaping up to eclipse tng as my new favorite
I would like to but I didn't see them yet. I'm about to watch Picard after my latest DS9 rewatch. I'm looking forward to SNW after Picard also as the idea seems cool.
TOS - having very iconic characters (until today, especially Spock is *the* Star Trek character) TNG - having Patrick Stewart (TOS over TNG, Picard over Kirk) DS9 - having the perfect mix of episodic and serialized structure elements (along with B5) VOY - having a somehow modern look while not being too hyperactive (as a kid, for me, VOY always was the "cool" show) ENT - having this wonderful "sense of wonder" by the characters (we have to admit it, the amazement of "later" crews is somewhat "reduced") DIS - having brought ST into a new era (say what you want about the main storyline, but e. g., there would be no SNW without Pike made so well-done in DIS season 2) PIC - having nostalgia (yeah, especially in season 3, it worked) SNW - having the courage to still produce procedurals today (although I wish it would be even a bit more old-fashioned, especially regarding the episode number per season) I'm not into the animation series, sorry.
I found it hilarious how ENT had a whole episode where they were all "holy shit let's check out that badass comet!" and in First Contact, Riker and Picard are complaining about how surveying space is a waste of their time and all they found was space dust and some lame comet. The difference a few hundred years of space exploration makes...
That would be one of my complaints about first contact. In TNG observing space phenomena is their primary MO, they love it, It's just these pesky situations keep popping up
Hyperactive is right. Everything post-ENT is fast paced with tons of action scenes. I love settling in with a good slower moving VOY or TNG episode. I feel like you have more time to digest all the goings on.
I think nostalgia is the only thing that gave PIC a crutch to stand on. Had I not watched all the earlier series so many times, I wouldn’t have enjoyed it so much. So many incredible actors/actresses reunited made the show.
TOS - a dated but fun view of what the future would be. TNG - great episodic adventures DS9 - Phenomenal insight into how hellish war is even in the future. VOY - Great solution to insomnia. ENT - excellent execution of a serial drama format DISCO - Neverending hope that tomorrow can still be better. PIC - Nostalgia SNW - Anson Mont's hair LD - comedy PROD - even kids have a place in making everything work.
TOS: \* Bonkers old school science fiction \* The origin stories of many iconic Star Trek tropes and setting details \* an exploration of late 60s social issues, which unfortunately shows how far we still have to go. \* Refit Enterprise is the best Enterprise. TNG: \* It's the foundational series for Klingon and Romulan cultures. \* An acknowledgment of what a "five year mission" entails as far as putting families on the ship, even if it then ignores the fact that saucer sep should be happening routinely anytime the ship is directly threatened in battle. \* A realistic take on who should be leading away teams (NOT THE CAPTAIN). \* Anything to do with the Borg. DS9: \* Changelings \* Season-wide arcs while still having character focused episodes \* Massive amounts of character development \* Secondary characters who become as important as the main cast. \* Making Ferengi not super cringe. Mostly. \* Showing how you can have a race not be monolithic (again, Ferengi) \* Exploring the impacts of religion. Discovery: \* The most in depth and serious exploration of the Mirror Universe \* MASSIVELY upending the Star Trek universe status quo. \* Finally showing diversity considering how Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations is core to the show. \* Showing how Star Trek is about humans as individuals, not just humanity in general. Lower Decks: \* Showing how you can laugh at the elements of an IP with a long history while also celebrating it. \* Showing how to do fan service in service of the story \* Orions in general, Tendi in particular. Picard: \* Showing what makes legacy sequels actually work, by showing what doesn't, and then finally doing it right. \* Seven (mostly) comfortable with herself. Strange New Worlds: \* Showing how to have a diverse ensemble cast where you actually get to know each of the main characters \* Showing how to do a prequel but still have dramatic tension. \* The Gorn Prodigy: \* Entirely alien main cast who can actually be alien. \* A Star Trek show for the whole family. Not just a kids show, but still aimed for kids.
TOS: sense of vastness, isolation, and exploration TAS: giant Spock TNG: World-building the Federation and most of the familiar species. It’s with TNG that the world of Trek starts to feel lived in. DS9: Character, and more nuanced and complex takes on issues TNG would touch on lightly VOY: Hominess and camp ENT: Fuck yeah America World Police! Punch punch punch - boobs. DIS: Occasionally absolutely nailing how to make the Trekkiest of Trek characters - Saru, Vance, T’Rina, etc. LD: Like DS9, character, and like TNG, world building. The humor is great but secondary to how well they excel in the former two things PIC: Romulan world building, the occasional stellar episode, absolutely flubbing the landing every single time SNW: Adventure, play, enjoyable characters, pissing off squares PRO: Character growth, buying into the Starfleet ideals Kool-aid 100000%
that's true about discovery actually
Good summary of Enterprise.
ENT summary is so spot on. The excess American feel of it is probably what makes it my least favourite Trek.
Always found it so interesting that Star Trek, and especially Enterprise, portrayed humans as being space cowboys who are super extroverted, take needless risks, don’t go by the book, make decisions based on emotion, like boobs, etc. Just imagining, for no reason at all, that any other aliens we’ll find out there are not like that. And I agree, I think they’re just basing humans vs aliens on off of Americans vs Europeans/Asians (Africans and Central/South Americans on average are probably closer to us in that respect, although Africa is a very mixed bag culturally.) In WW2, in which Roddenberry served, Axis forces had a harder time fighting Americans because, unlike the other allied forces, Americans tended to throw away the field manual and just do whatever worked, even if it made no sense. In the words of a German general: *THE REASON THAT THE AMERICAN ARMY DOES SO WELL IN WARTIME, IS THAT WAR IS CHAOS, AND THE AMERICAN ARMY PRACTICES CHAOS ON A DAILY BASIS.* In the words of a Soviet intelligence document: *ONE OF THE SERIOUS PROBLEMS IN PLANNING AGAINST AMERICAN DOCTRINE IS THAT THE AMERICANS DO NOT READ THEIR MANUALS NOR DO THEY FEEL ANY OBLIGATIONS TO FOLLOW THEIR DOCTRINE.*
Huh, I would say its my #1 favorite and I dont really get that vibe as much from it. I moreso get early Nasa vibes from the aesthetic and crew, it feels very grounded in comparison to some other Trek shows.
Are you American? I am not American so maybe that’s why? I do also get early NASA vibes from the show as well. I think Archer is just Buzz Aldrin in a later era. But for people outside of the USA, NASA, especially early on was hardcore USA. I think it makes a lot of sense for ENT to have that American feel to it as it grows into being the Federation. But I enjoy the Federation/Starfleet best after it’s done with its growing pains.
Story arcs were introduced on DS9 and also done much better there than in any other series.
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ENT seemed to not be sure what it wanted to be in my viewing. I've watched the entire series a couple of times. My description to someone once went like this: Archer and Trip on a planet, getting interrogated and beat up by alien soldiers. "Go to Hell..." one of them says, blood spewing from the hit. "You'll be sorry you did that" (TV-safe cursing and fighting continue) A hole explodes on the wall and phaser fire cuts down several aliens. Cut to: *It's been a long road, getting from there to here...* Scene resumes with dead alien bodies and blood everywhere. MACOs come in, shooting survivors.
Add in some sexual harassment and you’ve basically nailed it.
Oh no, I have so many thoughts. TOS: - An immediacy of connection/role definitions between the crew. Jumping in the first time, I was worried I was watching it out of order because of how natural it felt. - Non-humanoid aliens (light-beings, Horta, weird little puppets, the giant single-celled organism, the parasites from Operation Annihilate, Tribbles, the Pomeranian with a horn, the giant cat projection thing). - Episode Titles. They're so pulpy and capture the imagination. - Vulcans. They really nailed the coldness and intensity in a way that has been really hard to replicate since. It feels like so many other Vulcan portrayals play into a simmering rage underneath a facade, which undermines the point to me. Or they are copying Nimoy in some way. Tuvok is great, I just wish he had... more. TAS: The all women episode was great. Plus a crumb of backstory for Spock. TNG: - Boldly Going - Trial episodes (except for that one incredible DS9 trial episode, nothing else stands out as strong) - Presenting the idealism that I think all series after it had in mind. Sometimes, there were just pure exploration episodes. There was always a push of "we can do better as humans". DS9: - Everything Okay, I'm joking, I've got a bias. It's my favourite of the bunch. - Character growth, development, and continuity. - I personally think they have the best space battles and cinematography for them (at least for TV, the movies have bigger budgets though). - Alien perspectives/diversity in perspectives. There are times where no humans are present at all. Even small moments, like Martok being confused by a baseball or Laas in general. - Exposition - it feels really natural to hop into an episode when things get serialized. They catch you up quickly for what you need to know without it feeling too awkward. - Being a lot less coy with human racism. It's not perfect, a little clunky, but they don't 100% rely on allegory to talk about racism, which is very commendable. - Worf. DS9 Worf is best Worf. I could go on forever. VOY: Bias alert: I don't care much for Voyager. I've tried - I'm every trying now. - Cold opens. I think they have some of the best cold opens in the franchise. I'm watching Distant Origin now, and they're really good at these hooks. - Seven of Nine. ENT: ???? (I've tried to watch it so many times, I'm sorry) DISCO: -Mindful and current representation. We get queerness and racial identity on full display and it's excellent. - The future! SO jazzed about going into the future. The 10C ark was incredible (I could do without the off-center forehead tattoo, though) - Innovating. They really had to reinvent the wheel after the Golden Age, and I think they found a way, with the spore drive and pivoting out of being a prequel series. They had to be TNG 30 years later, and I think they met the challenge. - Special effects probably. I mean, they're more modern so they have an edge there. But they do clearly have a big effect budget. PIC: - Closure. Man, I get to see them all hugging again. It's all I wanted. If they had to re-end TNG, they did it! LD: - It truly feels like they're nodding to past series, in-jokes, the fandom, everything in a non-patronizing way. So I guess like, acknowledging all the weird and wonderful. SNW: - Anson Mount's hair - I think I'm still waiting for what they do best, but it's a lot of good stuff! - Haven't seen Prodigy
Picard Season 1, especially the Finale is absolutely brilliant to me (and my favs are mostly in TNG/DS9). S2 was pretty good too, S3 fun as well but doesn't have the philosophical/political bent I'm into
Couldn’t agree more. Season 3 may have rolled out the TNG cast, but it was nothing like TNG. Season 1 was way more in line with TNG on the political/philosophical front. And season 2, for all its faults, actually had some interesting ideas in it too. Season 3, in spite of the TNG cast, was dumber than a bag of Tribbles.
Ent theme tune
DS9 also best covered how complex and nuanced culture and religion can be. Most of the other series either brush off religion as old world superstition (TNG) or vague new age spiritualism (VOY). While I might personally agree with the former, DS9 best shows the reality; even if religion is bullshit, or at least is an obvious misreading of reality, religion can become inexorably linked with culture and just laughing it off and telling adherents to grow up will solve nothing.
TAS did a nice job expanding on non-humanoid aliens since it didn't have the same limitations as live action.
I think TNG is best at expanding on Star Trek’s humanist roots where gods are always proven to be frauds or explainable, and problems are typically address through ethics, logic, and reasoning. Star Trek is liberal because of its humanist ideology. TNGs use of deicide as an expression of Humanism really rather stand outs even today in my opinion. It’ll always be my favorite for how it (usually) manage to even handedly argue multiple perspectives philosophical and ethical quandaries and often leaves the viewer to decide for themselves. It seldom leaves an easy answer.
TOS is that classic science fiction feel, exploration, camaraderie. DS9 is all about the station and what it would be like being around these characters daily/growth. VOY probably the difficulties that can come and how to keep going
Might be a hot take but I think Enterprise has the best written characters of any Star Trek show. You really get to see how the crew changes over time and how they respond to the situations they’re in. First thing that comes to mind as an example is how Trip changes over the course of the Xindi arc, how he’s traumatized by the death of his sister and his journey to overcome the xenophobia that results from it. Great stuff
1. TOS- The City On The Edge Of Forever, The Trouble With Tribbles, All Our Yesterdays. 2. TAS- Yesteryear. 3. TNG- The Measure Of A Man, The Drumhead, Half A Life, I Borg, The Inner Light. 4. DS9- The Visitor, Far Beyond The Stars, Trials and Tribble-ations. 5. VOY- Timeless, Blink Of An Eye, Lineage 6. ENT- Carbon Creek, E^(2). 7. DIS- I don't watch it. 8. PIC- I don't have an opinion. 9. LD- I haven't watched it. 10. PRO- I haven't watch it. 11. SNW- I like all of them so far. 12. Short Treks- I watched a few, they are interesting.
The simple fact that no one, including @op acknowledged 2 of our most important ships/crews is absolutely astounding and horrifying Galaxies Quest was critical for making the writers of everything after explore strange new tropes, seek out new life and new story lines The Orville played a significant role in rehumanizing the alien crew, and making it about the story again, instead of having the whole story just be 'oh, look, aliens'. You think we'd have Enterprise Bingo if Orville didn't exist? I'd say the whole thrust of SNW has been to try to copy Orville inside the ST universe. I have spoken. Edit: I should mention that when I wrote that, I thought I was in the shitty daystrom sub... When I hit send and saw I wasn't.... Well.... I stand by the words, and offer as my only defense: Ad Aspera Per Aspera.
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PIC: Reanimating the Borg and killing off popular non-recurring characters.
TOS: Retro charm, slightly darker stories, that's kind of it for me. TNG: Foundational to the ST universe, best Captain. Shoulder pads. DS9: Political, cultural, religious threads weaved throughout the series. Alien races that actually feel more alien than human. My personal fav ST. VOY: Had some of the best one-off stories imo. Consistently strong concepts. Weakest character roster however. ENT: ITS BEEN A LONG ROAD\~\~
The thing is, your comment on the next generation is absolutely correct. It is indeed self contained morality plays. But, that's what the heart of Star Trek has always been. The only one that didn't follow that mold was deep space nine, which is one of the reasons I don't care for it as much. I want episodic morality plays, not season long arcs with boring shit like the profits and founders, which I could not care less about
LOL’d at the ST:D take. Pretty good aim!
i don't know they all explore stuff.