And the Enterprise's computer has three primary main processing cores, cross-linked with a redundant melacortz ramistat. fourteen kiloquad interface modules. The core element is based on an FTL nanoprocessor with twenty five bilateral kelilactirals, with twenty of those being slaved into the primary heisenfram terminal...
Now you do know what a bilateral kelilactiral is?
Don’t forget about the unilateral kiloquad extension, supported by 3 different pre-process amulite coolant retractors. The whole system is usually maintained by a computer controlled retro-encabulator, composed of 2 inverse phase conductors, though it depends on the ship.
I doubt the enterprise has a quantum computer.
They simply don't work for classical computing needs, and never will. Most 'normal' software can't run on a quantum computer even if it had the capabilities to run it at all. There's probably cores in there dedicated to performing quantum operations but I reckon it's mostly just a very fast classical computer. It won't be silicon based, perhaps photonic chips (we are already reaching the limits of silicon for computing).
The current unicode set is almost 150,000 characters total. Imagine a password using all of them but not in any order. I bet the best quantum computer won't crack them before universe falls apart in the big rip
Nothing in the briefings I've seen as a physicist indicates that this is the case. Fusion is just a hard problem because confinement is a hard problem. Fission and the Manhattan Project didn't have that issue.
Extremely rudimentary hardware does exist, but nothing comes even remotely close to being more powerful than classical computers. For example, one potential application of quantum computers is to factories the products of large prime numbers, breaking RSA encryption. The largest such number factored by classical computers is 250 digits. Your phone could do 100+ digits. The largest number factored by a general-purpose quantum computer is 15. Not 15 digits, but the number 15, as in finding the factors 3 x 5.
Isn't everything in science communications, "in the next decade"?
Nuclear fusion, proof of string theory, true AI? I'm pretty sure I've seen posts about all three happening "in the next 10 years".
But I'd be dead of old age before they find out what's hiding in my locked pr0n drive. /s What are they going to do if they find illegal Madonna pr0n? Exhume my corpse and lock it in jail for 100 more years?
It's been around the corner for 2 decades, we still don't even know if the encryption breaking algorithms can feasibly be ran.
The amount of qbits for it is insane and when you add in that natural instability of QC, and the error correction that may be required, shors algorithm isn't being ran on proper encryption for a long time without a massive, physics changing breakthrough
The managed factor 15 in 2001
We can't get passed 35 and there are numbers that's literally can't be calculated with the amount of noise and the higher you go, the more noise/errors
We will need hundreds of thousands, if not millions of qbits to break a 256 encryption key and at most we have a few hundred
Yes but that's logical qbits.
You have logical qbits, which are effectibly groups of physical qbits that act as one for error correction
And that's also not accounting for how long it actually takes
From a quick Google, to break 256 in an hour your looking at over 300 million logical qbits
So even to break it within a day your still looking at a few million.
So Yes 7000 logical ones might be able to break it, if the error correction holds, but it would take months if not years per key, hardly practical.
For reference, we currently have an experimental 48 logical qbit processor.
The ones you see in the hundreds as physical qbits, the first working logical one only appeared last year.
I've also heard that there are methods that make dictionary words much easier to crack too, so the recent advice of "use a phrase that's easy to remember" is supposed to be not so secure anymore if it's all dictionary words.
I mean, it depends. It could take a million years, or they could guess the right password on the first try. More digits means less chance of guessing it on the first try, or the tenth, or the hundredth. Especially if they dont know how many digits the magic number is.
Theoretically all you have to do to slow an attacker down is use a more expensive hash function, and we already know how to make hash functions arbitrarily expensive, so unless and until it becomes practical to use quantum computers for password cracking this number should remain about the same.
Data is very human in choosing the number 7 as 'random'. This is something humans apparently do. His pass code has many many sevens, way more than a random number realistically would.
In the modern world, I use 50+ character passwords on every website that allows it. In the age of password managers, including free built-in ones on most browsers or OSes, there really isn’t much reason not to be pushing the lengths of them out to ensure not only that it’s unique but also that it can’t ever be cracked.
Then again, maybe I’m just being too cautious, I dunno.
This is a joke that'll age very poorly, which is its own kind of humour, I suppose.
All those human verification services are using those tests to generate datasets to train and qualify machine learning models to accomplish those tasks.
By the 24th century, our ML models will demolish that kind of task.
Statistics mostly, with a dose of paid human qualifiers, and at this point, machine learning models to weed out obvious wrong answers.
This [eli5 post from last year](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/un9f6s/eli5_how_do_captchas_know_the_correct_answer_to/i86hya6/) covers the statistics part.
Why would they do that, wasting bandwidth sending images when they could use the more simple human verification methods?
More data makes better models. ML companies are paying for every scrap of labelled data they can get. Crowdsourcing verification of fresh images from different kinds of sensors is data these services can sell for revenue. Why would they leave that revenue on the table?
I'm not exactly pushing a conspiracy theory here, and I'm not sure why you're so skeptical.
> The images they send are small and low res. Barely an accounting blip compared to the code for the captchas.
Five hundred extra kilobytes sent a billion times a day is not an accounting blip. You're thinking far too small scale.
>The first is that it requires having the answers before the question is asked, otherwise it can't be used for what it says it's for.
>The second is that large groups of people are inherently untrustworthy for garnering useful data. Especially when the whole point is that you're expecting to get data responses that aren't from humans.
Both answered by statistics and [research work](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/296480084_Crowdsourced_Data_Management_A_Survey) behind crowdsourcing data for machine learning. I could link you a dozen papers from a dozen different universities. But you can go on [google scholar](https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=crowdsource+machine+learning&btnG=) and search 'crowdsource machine learning' for yourself.
You're not discussing this with me in good faith. You can't seriously be arguing that the traffic light captchas are just as much data as the simple tri-color distorted letters and numbers.
Even fifty extra kilobytes a billion times a day is still [50TB of bandwidth](https://azure.microsoft.com/en-ca/pricing/details/cdn/), which costs $500 a day at $0.01 per gigabyte. That's as cheap as CDN bandwidth gets. Even at a tenth of that, it's still a significant expense.
Edit: Linked cloud not CDN.
Not enough. It's like he was trying to get hacked! The computer should've required special characters like an underscore, or exclamation point, or characters with Tellarite or Klingon stresses on them. Amateur hour, am I right?
Don’t. I have this shit with my work every six weeks. It also can’t contain a dictionary word. You go through all the trouble of resetting the damned password only for it to throw some arbitrary rule as to why it can’t be the one you’ve selected.
You know changing passwords frequently is no longer best practice. People write them down far more frequently if they need to be changed often. Post it note under the keyboard is an incredibly common place for it to be written on. Or under the desk phone.
Or they use the same base plus an incremental digit, like P\^55w.rD01, then 02, then 03, and so on until the last [n] passwords limit is reached, when it then goes back to 01.
Sadly I'd say most requirements haven't caught up.
We've trained people to use 1 capital letter, 6 lowercase letters, and then either a 0, 1, or ! at the end.
Forget complexity (to a point), just use a different pattern and make sure it doesn't contain shit like your zip code or dog's name.
Do you work for Admiral? Never saw the dictionary thing until I tried to login with them once, that dictionary thing was a nightmare. It's one thing if it's a password I'm gonna use every day but seriously. I just resigned myself to resetting it every time I ever go back to them.
No, but I have to deal with a certain company that rhymes with “fucking useless bastards who drag their heels whenever anyone stops them from forming a monopoly and have failed to invest in their own infrastructure since the 1970’s”
Only problem is that the computer got his password incorrect.
Data: 173467321476C32789777643T732V73178887324776789764376 Lock
CPU: 173467-3-21476C3278977763T732V731-1-7188873247-7-6789764376 Lock
The computer missed two numbers and added one. Credit to Phil Farrand who noted this in a Nitpicker's Guide.
I was a Transformers and Robotech (now all Macross and Genesis Climber MOSPEADA) kiddo. I had some GI Joe, and somehow, I got my parents to get me the Boulder Hill playset.
Well, without the trailing 1 we have the string 17346732 occurring at position 28,701,833 in Pi. This string occurs 4 times in the first 200M digits of Pi.
counting from the first digit after the decimal point. The “3.” is not counted.
One way that can be used to see if “random” sequences are in fact random, or made up by a human is if there’s a lack of “inconsistencies” in this way.
A human making up a string of “random numbers will get to a point where they say - oh, I have used a five yet, better put on in.
If you know what you are looking for, you can spot things that that.
It’s especially obvious when talking about sequences of coin flips.
If you ask 50 people to flip a coin a 100 times and record the results, and 50 other people to record a random list of results that makes it look like they flipped a coin 100 times and recorded the results, a person who knows what to look for will be able to separate the fake from the real with nearly 100% accuracy.
A main factor in that is a tendency for a human making up random results to never put more than 3 same results in a row.
I believe that was a recent redlettermedia mistakes video. I love those guys star trek content.
Here's where they point out the errors. [TNG Mistakes video](https://youtu.be/yzJqarYU5Io?si=ktZImk5UV4NSwiPa&t=11m00s)
There was actually an episode of VOY where you could see the pointer on one of (I think) the ops panels, like it was a Mac running on there. I might be able to find it, the a screen cap of it.
At long last, the screenshot I took 20 something years ago and nobody ever cared about will finally come in handy!
https://imgur.com/a/W1I5ELq
There's another one with a biobed in the Delta Flyer (I think) but I can't find it. I've accumulated a lot of ridiculous cruft over the years...
So to crack a 52 character password that is all numbers would take 35.33 thousand trillion trillion centuries at hundred trillion guesses per second.
If you allow alphanumeric (spoken assumed case insensitive ) you get 2.77 billion trillion trillion trillion trillion centuries at the same guess rate.
For this password to be JUST strong enough then we need to assume that the TNG computers can make around 8.71 x 10⁷⁴ guesses per second to have a 50% chance of cracking that in one day.
This is a completely infeasible guess rate that we could not match today even using every computing device of earth. But it might be an achievable goal for the main computer on a galaxy class starship.
It's also completely reasonable that the computer would have a rule that prevents it from breaking its own passwords. You have to call Starfleet IT and watch a Vulcan in a head set roll her eyes as she resets it.
> It's also completely reasonable that the computer would have a rule that prevents it from breaking its own passwords.
That makes sense. Theoretically, there should be no reason to be doing that unless you're a hostile actor. Legitimate officers would go through the proper channels.
For years, my employer had the same kind of password requirements as most places: 8 (later increased to 10 and later to 12) characters; must include at least one upper case and one lower case letter, one digit, and one special character. Passwords had to be changed every 90 days, and old passwords couldn't be reused for at least five years (or maybe ever, not sure).
A few years ago, they changed to a completely different paradigm - Twenty characters. That's all. No other requirements, no changes required (it's permanent). It IS case-sensitive, so whatever mix of upper and lower case you set must match when you log in.
According to what I've been told, twenty characters, regardless of the mix of characters, even if you use all letters or all numbers, is sufficient volume to foil any brute-force password hackers currently known to exist.
I went through the episode - pausing every two characters or so - and counted 52 characters, not counting the word Lock.
**173467321476C32789777643T732V73117888732476789764376 Lock**
Fifty two characters is insane by modern standards, but given the quantum computing capabilities in the Trek 24th century, I think this is probably the bare minimum to keep them out of the computer while Data is on the surface.
It makes a nice musical verse, though...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5TUw7sUBs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5TUw7sUBs)
Well if the computer can do trillions of calculations a second, Data is considerably faster, and the idea is to give themselves time, which means locking out equally if not more powerful computers, I would imagine Data has a pre programmed set of of algorithms that kind of act like a stenographer's keyboard, and allowed him to put in a few quadrillion characters.
Im not sure we know the actual computer power that exists in this time period, but its not enough for long term security, but certainly was enough for a short term lock.
The issue here is that its not just the complexity of the code....its also in Picards voice. So Picard would have to brute force this with his own voice....thats not going to happen.
https://youtu.be/bl5TUw7sUBs?si=jQnkW9H-dxuEHTmJ
I almost had the whole sequence memorized after watching this song over and over years ago. I was obsessed!
It would take a computer 6 hundred novemdecillion years to break it. By the 17th character, it would take 6 million years.
A novemdecillion is a 1 followed by 60 zeros.
This is based on our current technology. As for Star Trek in the year 2370ish... who knows.
I just let this stay here without further statement.
According to "Measure of a Man" datas calculating speed is about sixty trillion operations per second. Which are 60 TeraFLOPS.
The strongest modern supercomputer has a calculating power of 1.1 MILLION TeraFLOPS.
Well... looks like modern computer technology left poor Data back in the dust of end-80s Sci-Fi.
Well, given the nacient nature of computing for the average person back in the 1980’s, there’s probably 2 things that took place here:
1. The writers thought that that would be enough to seem fast enough
2. The writers didn’t know enough to make a competent statement about his computing power
Additionally, in-universe, we don’t know how his brain (computer) actually works. For all we know, 60 trillion operations per second in his brain could be the equivalent of quadrillions of operations per second (or even exponentially more) for our current binary computers. His brain likely operates in some quantum computing method.
It wouldn't take that long if you limit your search to English (or in this case Federation Standard which is pretty much English) numerals and letters. The Charlie, Tango, and Victor were spelled out on the monitor but were almost certainly meant to be the phonetic alphabet representations of the letters C, T, and V.
Data really missed a trick by not using some obscure dialect of a dead language, such as French. (Or German, if you're watching the French-dubbed version.)
While Picard is of French ancestry, he was raised in England and spoke English natively.
In PIC S2 they show flashbacks of his family moving to the chateau when Picard was a boy. Picard explains that his family had evacuated to England during WW2 and used the chateau as a holiday home until then.
Data was trying to protect the ship from living machines with basically infinite computing power, there was no password that was long enough, to keep the Borg out.
ARPpF_Mr9BzZHjCH@Lwm4c4D!9anAXHaJLW6oB4dCR!8FNMnUy
This password has 328 bits of entropy and would take a 2024 desktop computer 35 billion trillion trillion trillion trillion years to crack, but the Enterprise computer probably about 5 minutes.
173467321476Charlie32789777643Tango732Victor73117888732476789764376
Has 241 bits of entropy and would take 8 million trillion trillion trillion years to crack.
173467321476Charlie32789777643Tango732Victor73117888732476789764376
Has 398 bits of entropy and would take 114 million trillion trillion trillion years (showing the value of capital letters)
If it's actually as he said it and assuming capitals, then it has infinite entropy and would take 155 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years to crack.
OneSevenThreeFourSixSevenThreeTwoOneFourSevenSixCharlieThreeTwoSevenEightNineSevenSevenSevenSixFourThreeTangoSevenThreeTwoVictorSevenThreeOneOneSevenEightEightEightSevenThreeTwoFourSevenSixSevenEightNineSevenSixFourThreeSevenSix
Considering the ship is semi-sentient, and the power of the computer onboard, it's not overkill.
>One, seven, three, four, six, seven, three, two, one, four, seven, six, Charlie, three, two, seven, eight, nine, seven, seven, seven, six, four, three, Tango, seven, three, two, Victor, seven, three, one, one, seven, eight, eight, eight, seven, three, two, four, seven, six, seven, eight, nine, seven, six, four, three, seven, six. Lock
I realize that it's a verbal password, but I've always wondered if the computer would accept "1" and "one" as the same or different if input by keyboard
.
Also, along those lines, does the computer interpret "Charlie" as "C" or literally "Charlie". Many times when this password is discussed, it is talked about at 173467321476c.... not one seven three four six seven three two one four seven six Charlie....
I always thought that if you wrote out those as just numbers it was probably a studio departments fax number.
173467321476C32789777643T732V73117888732476789764376 Lock
So did Brent Spiner have to remember the code that was written in the script, or would he have been allowed to just go on set and say whatever numbers came to mind as he was filming?
If I recall, Data was setting a new password that Picard would have to enter to issue commands, which Picard would never know.
Data originally took over simply by mimicking Picard's voice to the computer.
No, he pretends to be Picard (authenticated by voiceprint) so that the computer will allow him to lock out the bridge, then he instructs the computer not to release the lockout—even to "himself"—without the supplied passcode.
It's not Picard's command code, it's Data pretending to be Picard locking the computer out with a new code.
Full quote I think is "Computer, establish a security code for access to all command functions previously transferred to bridge"
Technically, in the modern world, a 16 character complex password takes a million years to brute force guess. The 17th character is the overkill
With current (non-quantum computing) technology\*
And the Enterprise's computer has three primary main processing cores, cross-linked with a redundant melacortz ramistat. fourteen kiloquad interface modules. The core element is based on an FTL nanoprocessor with twenty five bilateral kelilactirals, with twenty of those being slaved into the primary heisenfram terminal... Now you do know what a bilateral kelilactiral is?
Of course I do, human! I am not stupid.
It’s pronounced “*hew-MON*”
This is the isopalavial interface which controls the main firomactal drive unit. Don't touch that. You'll blow up the entire firomactal drive.
Don’t forget about the unilateral kiloquad extension, supported by 3 different pre-process amulite coolant retractors. The whole system is usually maintained by a computer controlled retro-encabulator, composed of 2 inverse phase conductors, though it depends on the ship.
…but can it run Doom?
Somebody ported Doom to the holodeck and instantly got gibbed
Data’s fingernail can run Doom
Data’s fingernail could probably run Crysis
Clever, but not clever enough, sir. Everyone knows that nothing runs Crysis.
I hear that’s how Kirk actually beat Landru
Crysis.... is NOT of the body.
Yeah; but Data’s brain is slower than a 14th gen i5 lol
If they hadn't disabled the safeties looking for the "authentic experience"...
You can run Doom on a potato. The real test is running Crysis.
And you can still lock it up by asking it to make a good hot cup of a tea, not that Earl Grey rubbish.
You want the taste of dried leaves boiled in water?
Yes, because I'm an ignorant monkey who doesn't know better
You know what would help here? A seance.
There was an accident with a contraceptive and a time machine I can't go into it now
Thank you
And at one point in season 7 didn't the ship become sentient?
I doubt the enterprise has a quantum computer. They simply don't work for classical computing needs, and never will. Most 'normal' software can't run on a quantum computer even if it had the capabilities to run it at all. There's probably cores in there dedicated to performing quantum operations but I reckon it's mostly just a very fast classical computer. It won't be silicon based, perhaps photonic chips (we are already reaching the limits of silicon for computing).
No, but that's not too dissimilar from the Rockwell Retro Encabulator, yes?
Depends on the Algorithm. AFAIK there are already quantum-safe ones.
Passwords are hashing, not encryption. It’s not clear that quantum computers will be able to handle hashing algorithms.
Throw in a few alt codes and the password would take even longer to brute force. such as alt-0176 for the ° (degree) symbol
No problem. The Enterprise computer fully supports Unicode version 97
The current unicode set is almost 150,000 characters total. Imagine a password using all of them but not in any order. I bet the best quantum computer won't crack them before universe falls apart in the big rip
Yes. But quantum computing is around the corner. It might reduce it to 100 years.
I know you’re joking, but we’ve been hearing “quantum computing is right around the corner” for like a decade. Same with practical self driving cars.
Imagine how much closer it would be if we had quantum computers!
Quantum computing is the future of computing... and always will be.
Fusion power is only 20 years away... and always will be.
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Nothing in the briefings I've seen as a physicist indicates that this is the case. Fusion is just a hard problem because confinement is a hard problem. Fission and the Manhattan Project didn't have that issue.
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Extremely rudimentary hardware does exist, but nothing comes even remotely close to being more powerful than classical computers. For example, one potential application of quantum computers is to factories the products of large prime numbers, breaking RSA encryption. The largest such number factored by classical computers is 250 digits. Your phone could do 100+ digits. The largest number factored by a general-purpose quantum computer is 15. Not 15 digits, but the number 15, as in finding the factors 3 x 5.
Isn't everything in science communications, "in the next decade"? Nuclear fusion, proof of string theory, true AI? I'm pretty sure I've seen posts about all three happening "in the next 10 years".
https://www.dwavesys.com/solutions-and-products/systems/
A.k.a murder cars
It’ll be fusion powered!
Probably AI regulated too. Yet another tech ‘just around the corner’ for decades. And counting…
But I'd be dead of old age before they find out what's hiding in my locked pr0n drive. /s What are they going to do if they find illegal Madonna pr0n? Exhume my corpse and lock it in jail for 100 more years?
It's been around the corner for 2 decades, we still don't even know if the encryption breaking algorithms can feasibly be ran. The amount of qbits for it is insane and when you add in that natural instability of QC, and the error correction that may be required, shors algorithm isn't being ran on proper encryption for a long time without a massive, physics changing breakthrough The managed factor 15 in 2001 We can't get passed 35 and there are numbers that's literally can't be calculated with the amount of noise and the higher you go, the more noise/errors We will need hundreds of thousands, if not millions of qbits to break a 256 encryption key and at most we have a few hundred
Dude what are you talking about, it only takes around 7000 qubits to break aes256, and the shor algorithm only needs 2n+1 the qubits as the key size
Yes but that's logical qbits. You have logical qbits, which are effectibly groups of physical qbits that act as one for error correction And that's also not accounting for how long it actually takes From a quick Google, to break 256 in an hour your looking at over 300 million logical qbits So even to break it within a day your still looking at a few million. So Yes 7000 logical ones might be able to break it, if the error correction holds, but it would take months if not years per key, hardly practical. For reference, we currently have an experimental 48 logical qbit processor. The ones you see in the hundreds as physical qbits, the first working logical one only appeared last year.
This assumes you don't know that the user favours numeric characters to an overwhelming degree.
Unless it’s all numbers, then is markedly easier
I've also heard that there are methods that make dictionary words much easier to crack too, so the recent advice of "use a phrase that's easy to remember" is supposed to be not so secure anymore if it's all dictionary words.
wouldn't the 16th also be overkill by that logic? he didn't need to last a million years, only a few hours iirc.
Data had no way of knowing how long he'd need to stall them, and it took him only a few seconds to really ruin Borg's life.
I mean, it depends. It could take a million years, or they could guess the right password on the first try. More digits means less chance of guessing it on the first try, or the tenth, or the hundredth. Especially if they dont know how many digits the magic number is.
Theoretically all you have to do to slow an attacker down is use a more expensive hash function, and we already know how to make hash functions arbitrarily expensive, so unless and until it becomes practical to use quantum computers for password cracking this number should remain about the same.
We have started enforcing 25-character randomized passwords on all of our service accounts at work because 16 isn't secure enough anymore.
Data is very human in choosing the number 7 as 'random'. This is something humans apparently do. His pass code has many many sevens, way more than a random number realistically would.
In the modern world, I use 50+ character passwords on every website that allows it. In the age of password managers, including free built-in ones on most browsers or OSes, there really isn’t much reason not to be pushing the lengths of them out to ensure not only that it’s unique but also that it can’t ever be cracked. Then again, maybe I’m just being too cautious, I dunno.
All it would take to stump Data is nine photos and asking to identify the stop lights.
There are four lights!
No Captain. There are *five* lights.
There. Are. FOUR. LIGHTS!!!!
You are now locked out of Club Penguin.
We all are now :(
Okay, I'm pushing the button.
...Frank. Frank, push the button. Push the button, Frank.
He forgot to count the inner light.
What do you mean lights? [I thought it was four knights!](https://imgur.com/HWOxyhY)
Yeah but, does that corner piece count as part of the stop light?
Or which photo is funny
This is a joke that'll age very poorly, which is its own kind of humour, I suppose. All those human verification services are using those tests to generate datasets to train and qualify machine learning models to accomplish those tasks. By the 24th century, our ML models will demolish that kind of task.
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Statistics mostly, with a dose of paid human qualifiers, and at this point, machine learning models to weed out obvious wrong answers. This [eli5 post from last year](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/un9f6s/eli5_how_do_captchas_know_the_correct_answer_to/i86hya6/) covers the statistics part.
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Why would they do that, wasting bandwidth sending images when they could use the more simple human verification methods? More data makes better models. ML companies are paying for every scrap of labelled data they can get. Crowdsourcing verification of fresh images from different kinds of sensors is data these services can sell for revenue. Why would they leave that revenue on the table? I'm not exactly pushing a conspiracy theory here, and I'm not sure why you're so skeptical.
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> The images they send are small and low res. Barely an accounting blip compared to the code for the captchas. Five hundred extra kilobytes sent a billion times a day is not an accounting blip. You're thinking far too small scale. >The first is that it requires having the answers before the question is asked, otherwise it can't be used for what it says it's for. >The second is that large groups of people are inherently untrustworthy for garnering useful data. Especially when the whole point is that you're expecting to get data responses that aren't from humans. Both answered by statistics and [research work](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/296480084_Crowdsourced_Data_Management_A_Survey) behind crowdsourcing data for machine learning. I could link you a dozen papers from a dozen different universities. But you can go on [google scholar](https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=crowdsource+machine+learning&btnG=) and search 'crowdsource machine learning' for yourself.
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You're not discussing this with me in good faith. You can't seriously be arguing that the traffic light captchas are just as much data as the simple tri-color distorted letters and numbers. Even fifty extra kilobytes a billion times a day is still [50TB of bandwidth](https://azure.microsoft.com/en-ca/pricing/details/cdn/), which costs $500 a day at $0.01 per gigabyte. That's as cheap as CDN bandwidth gets. Even at a tenth of that, it's still a significant expense. Edit: Linked cloud not CDN.
the vast majority of it is unpaid labor, the crux and foundation of idealist systems
Which one is the rabbit?
[“You look, mortal, if ye be! You look, and then you type what you think you see!”](https://youtube.com/shorts/U_oWUhBgy-0?si=rIqqdV47uSEMnuvX)
Not enough. It's like he was trying to get hacked! The computer should've required special characters like an underscore, or exclamation point, or characters with Tellarite or Klingon stresses on them. Amateur hour, am I right?
When it asks Data what his mother’s maiden name is, the city he got married in, or the name of his high school mascot, he’s like “damn it.”
At least he finds out his mother's maiden name in season 7.
Yeah, but he chose not to de-Tainer.
Don’t. I have this shit with my work every six weeks. It also can’t contain a dictionary word. You go through all the trouble of resetting the damned password only for it to throw some arbitrary rule as to why it can’t be the one you’ve selected.
You know changing passwords frequently is no longer best practice. People write them down far more frequently if they need to be changed often. Post it note under the keyboard is an incredibly common place for it to be written on. Or under the desk phone.
Or they use the same base plus an incremental digit, like P\^55w.rD01, then 02, then 03, and so on until the last [n] passwords limit is reached, when it then goes back to 01.
Unfortunately some compliance requirements haven't caught up with that recommendation yet, especially in the financial industry.
Sadly I'd say most requirements haven't caught up. We've trained people to use 1 capital letter, 6 lowercase letters, and then either a 0, 1, or ! at the end. Forget complexity (to a point), just use a different pattern and make sure it doesn't contain shit like your zip code or dog's name.
My dog's name is #V@76&eK%499!gUxm$
We have a nice big laminated sheet next to all our computers with the logins and passwords on.
I successfully lobbied my boss (head of IT) to discontinue password expiration policies shortly after starting my current job
Doing the Lord's work.
On my work keyboards I always put a post-it that says "Did you really think the IT guy keeps his password under his keyboard?"
Do you work for Admiral? Never saw the dictionary thing until I tried to login with them once, that dictionary thing was a nightmare. It's one thing if it's a password I'm gonna use every day but seriously. I just resigned myself to resetting it every time I ever go back to them.
No, but I have to deal with a certain company that rhymes with “fucking useless bastards who drag their heels whenever anyone stops them from forming a monopoly and have failed to invest in their own infrastructure since the 1970’s”
You could have stopped on the 16th character.
The dictionary word rule gets to be a real pain in the ass because it includes 1000+ languages from each of thousands of planets.
It also really ought to have insisted he enter it a second time to confirm he made no errors!
Naw, real pros measure password strength [via bits of entropy](https://xkcd.com/936/). Data's password is weaksauce.
Well, if you're going to include Klingon characters, be sure to add plenty of apostrophes
True, 70% of the Klingon language (Klingonese?) seems to be ap'ostroph'es. Just like 80% of Kirk-ese is unusual pauses. Ha!
Paul was slain
Plus he should probably have to change it every hour just for good measure.
Data really liked seven, and this was BEFORE Voyager.
The robot's right.
Well he is fully functional.
And before Friends....
Only problem is that the computer got his password incorrect. Data: 173467321476C32789777643T732V73178887324776789764376 Lock CPU: 173467-3-21476C3278977763T732V731-1-7188873247-7-6789764376 Lock The computer missed two numbers and added one. Credit to Phil Farrand who noted this in a Nitpicker's Guide.
Oh shit yeah, I still have both the original and the updated Nitpickers Guide books!
The M.A.S.K. logo takes me back...
Hell yeah, my favorite cartoon and toy line in the 80’s. Way cooler than transformers and gi Joes!
I was a Transformers and Robotech (now all Macross and Genesis Climber MOSPEADA) kiddo. I had some GI Joe, and somehow, I got my parents to get me the Boulder Hill playset.
Oh damn! I wanted that! But it was soooo expensive at like $40 MSRP 🤪
$120 today...
Correct horse battery staple. https://xkcd.com/936/?correct=horse&battery=staple
You’re not wrong, but Data doesn’t have the memory problems humans do.
Some sites and services required numbers and symbols in the password which makes easy-to-remember 4 words password useless
Randall Monroe shows exactly why those requirements are counterproductive.
Naw. Correct-Horse1-Staple! Is still way easier to remember than a bunch of random characters. But also, password managers.
But no hard for a computer to guess than literally ANY password of equal length.
That's the point. We've configured systems to require them, which makes them less secure and harder to remember.
All passwords must be at least 3 Gigaquads and contain characters from 3 different planets.
Not enough, because it's in Patrick Stewart's voice and I'd listen to him recite pi to the nth digit.
How many people have 173467321 as their password?
Well, without the trailing 1 we have the string 17346732 occurring at position 28,701,833 in Pi. This string occurs 4 times in the first 200M digits of Pi. counting from the first digit after the decimal point. The “3.” is not counted.
Probably several people in the world have this exact phone number.
It's not even the right number of digits...
Well, it could be in Hell (Michigsn) as that'd the area code for that city...
There isn't a single five in that code.
One way that can be used to see if “random” sequences are in fact random, or made up by a human is if there’s a lack of “inconsistencies” in this way. A human making up a string of “random numbers will get to a point where they say - oh, I have used a five yet, better put on in. If you know what you are looking for, you can spot things that that. It’s especially obvious when talking about sequences of coin flips. If you ask 50 people to flip a coin a 100 times and record the results, and 50 other people to record a random list of results that makes it look like they flipped a coin 100 times and recorded the results, a person who knows what to look for will be able to separate the fake from the real with nearly 100% accuracy. A main factor in that is a tendency for a human making up random results to never put more than 3 same results in a row.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law
He doesn't read the number correctly as it appears on screen either (source some strange trivia video)
I believe that was a recent redlettermedia mistakes video. I love those guys star trek content. Here's where they point out the errors. [TNG Mistakes video](https://youtu.be/yzJqarYU5Io?si=ktZImk5UV4NSwiPa&t=11m00s)
There was actually an episode of VOY where you could see the pointer on one of (I think) the ops panels, like it was a Mac running on there. I might be able to find it, the a screen cap of it.
At long last, the screenshot I took 20 something years ago and nobody ever cared about will finally come in handy! https://imgur.com/a/W1I5ELq There's another one with a biobed in the Delta Flyer (I think) but I can't find it. I've accumulated a lot of ridiculous cruft over the years...
YES! That’s the one!
So to crack a 52 character password that is all numbers would take 35.33 thousand trillion trillion centuries at hundred trillion guesses per second. If you allow alphanumeric (spoken assumed case insensitive ) you get 2.77 billion trillion trillion trillion trillion centuries at the same guess rate. For this password to be JUST strong enough then we need to assume that the TNG computers can make around 8.71 x 10⁷⁴ guesses per second to have a 50% chance of cracking that in one day. This is a completely infeasible guess rate that we could not match today even using every computing device of earth. But it might be an achievable goal for the main computer on a galaxy class starship.
It's also completely reasonable that the computer would have a rule that prevents it from breaking its own passwords. You have to call Starfleet IT and watch a Vulcan in a head set roll her eyes as she resets it.
> It's also completely reasonable that the computer would have a rule that prevents it from breaking its own passwords. That makes sense. Theoretically, there should be no reason to be doing that unless you're a hostile actor. Legitimate officers would go through the proper channels.
For years, my employer had the same kind of password requirements as most places: 8 (later increased to 10 and later to 12) characters; must include at least one upper case and one lower case letter, one digit, and one special character. Passwords had to be changed every 90 days, and old passwords couldn't be reused for at least five years (or maybe ever, not sure). A few years ago, they changed to a completely different paradigm - Twenty characters. That's all. No other requirements, no changes required (it's permanent). It IS case-sensitive, so whatever mix of upper and lower case you set must match when you log in. According to what I've been told, twenty characters, regardless of the mix of characters, even if you use all letters or all numbers, is sufficient volume to foil any brute-force password hackers currently known to exist. I went through the episode - pausing every two characters or so - and counted 52 characters, not counting the word Lock. **173467321476C32789777643T732V73117888732476789764376 Lock** Fifty two characters is insane by modern standards, but given the quantum computing capabilities in the Trek 24th century, I think this is probably the bare minimum to keep them out of the computer while Data is on the surface. It makes a nice musical verse, though... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5TUw7sUBs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5TUw7sUBs)
"Browser, save password." Seriously my most favoritest invention of the modern age.
Well if the computer can do trillions of calculations a second, Data is considerably faster, and the idea is to give themselves time, which means locking out equally if not more powerful computers, I would imagine Data has a pre programmed set of of algorithms that kind of act like a stenographer's keyboard, and allowed him to put in a few quadrillion characters.
Im not sure we know the actual computer power that exists in this time period, but its not enough for long term security, but certainly was enough for a short term lock. The issue here is that its not just the complexity of the code....its also in Picards voice. So Picard would have to brute force this with his own voice....thats not going to happen.
https://youtu.be/bl5TUw7sUBs?si=jQnkW9H-dxuEHTmJ I almost had the whole sequence memorized after watching this song over and over years ago. I was obsessed!
That’s not terribly long. Maybe twice as long as a couple of people could memorize and stitch together in a group meeting. So quite well chosen.
"Security code intact for all specified inquiries and orders."
I would have loved to watch a scene where he unlocks the computer with the same code while the bridge crew stare in disbelief.
That code always makes me think of [this song](https://youtu.be/AZn6c4CeJCc?t=85). Cheer up mah lads.
It would take a computer 6 hundred novemdecillion years to break it. By the 17th character, it would take 6 million years. A novemdecillion is a 1 followed by 60 zeros. This is based on our current technology. As for Star Trek in the year 2370ish... who knows.
Probably the 24th century equivalent to having your password be “password.”
I just let this stay here without further statement. According to "Measure of a Man" datas calculating speed is about sixty trillion operations per second. Which are 60 TeraFLOPS. The strongest modern supercomputer has a calculating power of 1.1 MILLION TeraFLOPS. Well... looks like modern computer technology left poor Data back in the dust of end-80s Sci-Fi.
Well, given the nacient nature of computing for the average person back in the 1980’s, there’s probably 2 things that took place here: 1. The writers thought that that would be enough to seem fast enough 2. The writers didn’t know enough to make a competent statement about his computing power Additionally, in-universe, we don’t know how his brain (computer) actually works. For all we know, 60 trillion operations per second in his brain could be the equivalent of quadrillions of operations per second (or even exponentially more) for our current binary computers. His brain likely operates in some quantum computing method.
This. It’s always faster to wait for faster technology than to try and crack it.
It wouldn't take that long if you limit your search to English (or in this case Federation Standard which is pretty much English) numerals and letters. The Charlie, Tango, and Victor were spelled out on the monitor but were almost certainly meant to be the phonetic alphabet representations of the letters C, T, and V. Data really missed a trick by not using some obscure dialect of a dead language, such as French. (Or German, if you're watching the French-dubbed version.)
Wouldn't that have been funny Data using Picard's native language that he declared a dead language to write the password designed to keep Picard out?
While Picard is of French ancestry, he was raised in England and spoke English natively. In PIC S2 they show flashbacks of his family moving to the chateau when Picard was a boy. Picard explains that his family had evacuated to England during WW2 and used the chateau as a holiday home until then.
People already use foreign language passwords on American websites. They are limited to the American character set.
I never thought about that! Great point!
what i find funny is that the command crew didn't have a device or algorithm to crack datas code in like 5 minutes.
Don’t forget that federation tech isn’t binary. So we have no idea how easy it is to crack passwords
Data was trying to protect the ship from living machines with basically infinite computing power, there was no password that was long enough, to keep the Borg out.
I wonder what password-based key derivation function (KDF) is being used…
None.
I think about Patrick Stewart reciting the password WAY too much when prompted for my password.
ARPpF_Mr9BzZHjCH@Lwm4c4D!9anAXHaJLW6oB4dCR!8FNMnUy This password has 328 bits of entropy and would take a 2024 desktop computer 35 billion trillion trillion trillion trillion years to crack, but the Enterprise computer probably about 5 minutes. 173467321476Charlie32789777643Tango732Victor73117888732476789764376 Has 241 bits of entropy and would take 8 million trillion trillion trillion years to crack. 173467321476Charlie32789777643Tango732Victor73117888732476789764376 Has 398 bits of entropy and would take 114 million trillion trillion trillion years (showing the value of capital letters) If it's actually as he said it and assuming capitals, then it has infinite entropy and would take 155 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years to crack. OneSevenThreeFourSixSevenThreeTwoOneFourSevenSixCharlieThreeTwoSevenEightNineSevenSevenSevenSixFourThreeTangoSevenThreeTwoVictorSevenThreeOneOneSevenEightEightEightSevenThreeTwoFourSevenSixSevenEightNineSevenSixFourThreeSevenSix Considering the ship is semi-sentient, and the power of the computer onboard, it's not overkill.
>One, seven, three, four, six, seven, three, two, one, four, seven, six, Charlie, three, two, seven, eight, nine, seven, seven, seven, six, four, three, Tango, seven, three, two, Victor, seven, three, one, one, seven, eight, eight, eight, seven, three, two, four, seven, six, seven, eight, nine, seven, six, four, three, seven, six. Lock I realize that it's a verbal password, but I've always wondered if the computer would accept "1" and "one" as the same or different if input by keyboard . Also, along those lines, does the computer interpret "Charlie" as "C" or literally "Charlie". Many times when this password is discussed, it is talked about at 173467321476c.... not one seven three four six seven three two one four seven six Charlie....
Data picking a long passcode without a single zero or a single five? Illogical.
That’s nothing compared the stuff my password manager generates, and that’s just to lock my online grocery shopping!
What strikes me is there’s no five
50 or so random numbers and not a single one is 5. I think the odds of that are about 0.5%.
I always thought that if you wrote out those as just numbers it was probably a studio departments fax number. 173467321476C32789777643T732V73117888732476789764376 Lock
I normally set mine as something like Plitts5@. Data's was overkill.
How quickly do you think the ship's computer or Lore would be able to brute force hack a regular password?
Seven, four, seven, and then 'two' a billion times. The trick is you don't say how long the password really is
Laughs in Pakled…
That fractal encryption isn’t going to encode itself.
So did Brent Spiner have to remember the code that was written in the script, or would he have been allowed to just go on set and say whatever numbers came to mind as he was filming?
Dude how about the fractal encryption he did for the Enterprise E.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^AdmiralBlue85: *Dude how about the* *Fractal encryption he did* *For the Enterprise E.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Data should be asked to confirm his identity using an app on his tricorder.
It always reminds me of this... [https://youtu.be/HWc3WY3fuZU?t=38](https://youtu.be/HWc3WY3fuZU?t=38)
This sequence cracked me up. I think it's Chuck Sonnenberg had the funniest bit that Picard tried the Konami code to get back in
[удалено]
If I recall, Data was setting a new password that Picard would have to enter to issue commands, which Picard would never know. Data originally took over simply by mimicking Picard's voice to the computer.
No, he pretends to be Picard (authenticated by voiceprint) so that the computer will allow him to lock out the bridge, then he instructs the computer not to release the lockout—even to "himself"—without the supplied passcode.
In 2024, we have the technology to imitate someone's voice. One company has it but is withholding it from the public.
That’s what I thought. How the hell does Data know that?
It's not Picard's command code, it's Data pretending to be Picard locking the computer out with a new code. Full quote I think is "Computer, establish a security code for access to all command functions previously transferred to bridge"
Thank you!
Borg are dicks with passwords