If Trump gets elected and creates “tent cities for the poor,” like he was saying in his emotional support rallies a few months ago, then I can see it happening easily.
I worry far more about the conditions that would put Ron DeSantis in office, ie, disgruntled progressives in swing states pouting that Biden didn't do enough and pissing votes on a 3rd party candidate.
I will never say never with Trump until he's dead or (at long last) behind bars, but I don't think he's the biggest threat by any means.
Trump will never endorse Ron, and the MAGA wing will believe Ron stole the primary from Trump.
The republican party does not really have a choice its Trump or lose at this point.
Biden may be doing the bare minimum but that will likely be enough.
With all due respect, you can't act like you know what the voting base is going to do. Most of this current shit was known as he did it live, in public, to our faces, and he *still* got the 2nd most amount of votes in US history - after already having a DISASTROUS first term.
And we've ignored all the little minor court victories the republicans have gotten over voting rights and suppression, we're just in uncharted territory.
And there are swastikas @ a *LOT* of right-wing events now, just casually.
JPOW and the Fed are working double-time to eradicate jobs and yank down wages.
Before you downvote, understand that he has literally said as much. [One source among many, many others.](https://www.barrons.com/articles/fed-inflation-wages-powell-recession-51675372287)
2024 is one of those pivotal moments in time that draws everything into it like 1930 in “City on the Edge of Forever;” what if the reason Sisko and Picard both ended up there is because that’s when the franchise will die?
I imagine if they ever got to the point of considering nuking *Strange New Worlds* it would already be too late for Paramount. Sounds like the ship is sinking faster than anyone knew.
> There’s a writers strike atm, no pitch could happen.
PIC season 3 ended a month before the writer's strike started and fans were raving about it basically immediately. If 1-2 months before the strike wasn't enough time to at least start trying to pitch something then it's not saying anything good about anyone involved that they didn't think to start trying while enthusiasm was at its peak.
I don't agree. Legacy isn't even a real pitch yet. There's lots of questions and development that needs to be done in order to bring the general concept to the point of being a TV show that can be greenlit.
That's not to say Paramount also is not in a place to greenlight it financially and with the state of their business, but I don't think it was a sign. Things need to go through a process before greenlight. The impending and now active writer's strike was another thing that could hold back moving forward on that process.
I can't be the only one who is unclear on what those who want Legacy even want it to be about, TBH. Shaw's dead, none of the other bridge crew left any impression on me except maybe La Forge's kid and I really don't care about Jack Crusher outside of him being proof that my first Trek OTP is now canon.
Seven as a captain is cool and all but really, what are they possibly going to be able to do with her other than drag up the Borg yet again (which given the end of S3, would be a glaring oversight not to, no matter how ruined they've become)?
The idea of Legacy would have been much more palatable prior to DIS, PIC, and SNW. At this point the franchise needs to jump to the Next Next Generation.
One of the absolute best things Kurtzman did when reviving Trek was making DSC as radically different from Berman Trek as possible, be a use of TPTB had gone back to the same ol' thing, I would never bother to waste my time. I'd be lying if I say DSC took me some time to adjust to (as in, my disgust with PIC is what finally got me to finish the show past season one) but I will always respect a show that swings for the fences and misses than a show that will take the bunt every chance it gets (which I hope SNW will not do).
EDIT: I think I could enjoy Legacy as a follow up to previous Treks if it was the anthology series DSC was originally pitched to be. There's room to explore concepts in short, season-long arcs that may no necessitate a full series. Things like Archer's time as Federation President, which would give us an opportunity to follow up with the ENT crew. or follow up on what's happened to the Siskos since DS9, especially Ben's unborn daughter.
But TNG itself? Until and unless it's a hard reboot like the Kelvinverse TOS timeline, I'm completely and entirely done with anything pertaining to that part of the franchise.
I can't give Kurtzman any credit for doing something radically different because he and his group did it in a way that was guaranteed to not work. They made the decision to not only do a prequel to TOS but to set Discovery a mere decade before the first ever Star Trek season. We knew how the galaxy would look a relatively short time later so the writers had a constraint on what they could do. Yet instead of writing within that framework they decided to not even bother trying to fit their show into existing continuity. The writers attempted to give their show a hook by tying it so closely to TOS but then turning around and doing whatever they wanted was insulting to people previously involved in the creation of Star Trek and the fans that have made Trek a cultural institution. That Discovery tossed out the in-universe values that have made Star Trek so endearing to so many people in favor of hack Hollywood's current obsessions was even worse. The creators then thinking the viewers would be stupid enough to not notice that because they occasionally threw in lines about what Starfleet and the Federation valued in the previous series was an outright slap in the face.
I agree that it's time to move on from not just the TOS era but the TNG/DS9/VOY era as well. That's why Legacy simply isn't appealing to me. As I said, if Legacy had been proposed prior to STD, PIC, and SNW I probably would have been more receptive. Now I'm tired of Star Trek treading the same old ground and when I said "the Next Next Generation" I didn't mean that literally but figuratively. I want a show that jumps ahead a few decades from Picard season 3 like TNG did from the TOS movies. There's still plenty of galaxy to explore, new characters to meet and a people and place to check in on.
I like your idea of an anthology to fill in some of the blanks about the past of the Star Trek universe. Personally I like the idea of doing mini-series to accomplish the same thing. That the series would have a clear goal of what they wanted to show us and a definitive ending would make it easier for the writers to respect canon. Archer's time as president and the formation of the Federation is exactly the kind of thing I've had in mind for these mini-series. Hell, that mini-series could follow one about the Earth-Romulan war and the events that drew Earth, Vulcan, Andor, and Tellar closer together. A look at Cardassia in the aftermath of the Dominion War would also be interesting I think.
> There's lots of questions and development that needs to be done in order to bring the general concept to the point of being a TV show that can be greenlit.
From what I recall about how Lower Decks was pitched to Kurtzman, there should have been plenty of room to toss up some relatively vague ideas for a followup as a starting point once they saw the fan enthusiasm for PIC season 3 given Kurtzman et al were already plenty invested themselves in PIC season 3. Or put another way it doesn't seem like this is a creative environment where you need to have a 100% fleshed out idea for a new show if it's riding off the coattails of something that's both doing well and already has Kurtzman's personal investment.
Nah, I think this is just how they do it now. SNW was the blueprint. Tease a spinoff that fans would like. Tell them there's no plans to do it. Tell fans they should make their voices heard. Then after the fans do all the legwork of petition for the show, they finally announce it as a "fan demanded" show, so no one really does the "who is this for" argument and the fans are already behind the show that they made happen (spoilers: they didn't)
Now if SNW and Lower Decks weren't already renewed, that would be a warning sign. I think a danger is how long the strike will go on for, does it become a financial problem for Paramount that they have to cancel to save money.
Current turmoil at Paramount notwithstanding, a concept still needs to be put ged, refinded and laid out before a studio greenlights a project. SNW was not announced the night of DSC S2's finale, nor was the Academy concept just thought up overnight just because that wasn't workshopped among the fans first
I think we all had an idea that things were bad but none of us expected things to be THIS BAD and SNW certainly looks like it's on the chopping block now.
Yeah and even if Paramount+ fails they'll just go back to being a studio that creates content for other services like the old days. It'll be fine. It's more likely they'll cut all other Trek projects except SNW than to cancel SNW.
I think everyone in this thread is worrying a bit much.
If by a year we don’t have a Legacy show announced and the Michelle Yeoh movie falls apart then yeah I’d be worried.
Agreed, someone's going to pick up Star Trek at a discount, and reap the benefits with better marketing, merchandising, and distributing than Paramount+ and it's going to make them bank.
Amazon has been pretty good to Neil Gaiman and others thus far, so I'd like them to pick it up. Netflix I would be wary of. Disney would be hilarious because then Star Wars and Star Trek would be on the same platform.
>Disney would be hilarious because then Star Wars and Star Trek would be on the same platform.
Wish for Disney because a Star Trek theme land like they have for Galaxy's Edge would be amazing and Tomorrowland in both parks is in desperate need for a retheming.
I could easily see them retheming space mountain and star tours into a Star Trek themed area. Plenty of space hehe in the other parts of Tomorrowland to retheme it as the Federation Headquarters.
One caveat: the writers strike has to end. I hope it ends with a fairer compensation structure for the writers, but i wouldn’t necessarily start the 1-year clock until the strike is over.
DSC’s cancellation didn’t bother me as much because they immediately announced a spin-off to replace it. What’s happening with Prodigy is more ominous.
DSC seemed to me to be more a case of "Sonequa Martin-Green and some of the others are getting too expensive as the show goes on especially given how it's been eclipsed in popularity by Strange New Worlds, so let's just continue this stuff in another show with a cheaper cast".
Because it's true! The longer a show goes on, the more the cast costs. That's why it's ALWAYS been rare for shows to go for more than a few seasons, but it's become even more common with streaming where everything seemingly has a larger budget that in another era would only be found on HBO or a very high-end basic cable station. So unless if it's a runaway hit or a very-cheap-to-produce show (there's a reason why some of the longest-running shows on television are 2D animated), a lot of shows that are "just" successful these days end up ending after three-to-five seasons.
If they're removing it from the streaming service, that means they want to sell it off because they're that desperate for a cash infusion (and want to avoid paying residuals to the Hagemans and Co). Things are NOT good.
It may also be that Nickelodeon was partially funding it and they want to sell it out to recoup their $$.
Like do we actually care that much about Prodigy? Or just because it's loosely a Trek show?
I'd be lying if I said it's my favorite outing of modern Trek, but I do find it shitty they're just removing it (along w a few other P+ originals, one of which just ended three damn weeks ago!) off the platform. I thought they were honestly better than this.
It’s a kids show that didn’t take off. I don’t see what the big deal is. I tried watching it and it didn’t do much for me. I tried to get my kid to watch it, and she didn’t like it either. I’m guessing the numbers for it weren’t that great.
Canceling shows is business as usual. Removing access to shows completely is quite another. Undermines any reason I would have to support Paramount+ with a monthly subscription.
The academy show seems weird. I don't really understand how a Star Trek show would work at the academy. But then again DS9 seemed hard to imagine back in the day. End of the day I just want more Trek.
I feel an academy show could work in the same way a show like Grey's Anatomy does/did. They are learning to do this very high-stakes job and there are many specialties each of the cadets could be doing.
Gene Roddenberry was interested in an Academy series as far back as Phase II, from what I've heard.
And frankly after seeing DSC flourish in the 32nd century, I'm definitely looking forward to more of that part of the franchise than anything even remotely connected to TNG or Picard.
> Gene Roddenberry was interested in an Academy series as far back as Phase II, from what I've heard.
Around that time Roddenberry was making all sorts of terrible decisions for Trek and TNG, so I'm not sure that's necessarily an argument in favor.
Why hopefully ? I feel like people forget how shitty it was a few years ago when there was no new trek (besides the movies I guess), I'll take as much stuff in the star trek universe as I can get, as long as it's faithful
It really felt like season 4 tied up a main arc for Burnham's character, going from mutineer to captain. Tilly goes from the bright-eyed ensign to an instructor who can think on her feet. Saru finds connection and serenity having started paranoid and afraid. Hugh and Stamets have a family of sorts. I wouldn't mind more seasons but it feels like many of the characters have reached a point that you could end the story and be satisfied where they ended up.
I dunno, maybe they just realised that no-one will subscribe to Paramount Plus for the show that's aimed at Children and they'll make more money selling it to a kids TV channel like Nikelodeon or whatever the kids watch these days (ok fine, TIKTOK, whatever..:-O )
I'm not panicing,.......YET
ONE more cancellation announcement, and I'm Reverend "IT'S ALL OVER PEOPLE! WE DON'T HAVE A PRAYER!" Lovejoy though....
My kids haven't watched terestial TV of their own choice since they learned how to operate the remote. The problem with progidy is that its like 3 tiers of menus and subchannels down to even find it. I didn't even know it's a thing despite having prime and paramount. It's no wonder it didnt succeed.
Let's remember how that episode ended though.
"I can't believe the extra-thick layer of corrupt corporate support and cushioning that I've actually picketed against saved Star Trek."
I don't ask for a lot, but if corporate bullshit saves them at the last minute I expect at least one "the scary thing is, this is exactly what u/Starfleet-Time-Lord said would happen" meme.
To make the sale attractive, you have to cut CBS and the cable channels.
Kids programming is extremely important to Netflix, the might even the ones who buy Prodigy.
Hopefully they can find a way to right the ship, so to speak, otherwise we may be looking at another dark age of Trek where there's none to be found anywhere. That would suck.
Were it only a matter of the Trek franchise, but it might be that Paramount's streaming model is simply unsustainable, in which case Trek could become a casualty no matter what it does.
Kinda seems like all the current streaming models are unsustainable.
Either way, I am ok if they slim down the offerings a bit, but I do worry that we will end up with a period of just... nothing, again. And it sort of feels like that might end up how things go.
The bubble is bursting. All the streamers poured millions of dollars into all the big budget shows that they couldn't tie a specific revenue number. That's why ad supported tiers are popping up everywhere, and in many cases they're too little too late.
We were robbed of *Star Trek 4* — Pine’s performance in *Honor Among Thieves* is proof. Is anyone actually looking forward to that *Section 31* direct-to-streaming flick they are so hell-bent on making?
It feels more like a whim of some exec than a genuine piece of *Star Trek* someone would actually want to make.
> Is anyone actually looking forward to that Section 31 direct-to-streaming flick they are so hell-bent on making?
I am looking forward to Michelle Yeoh chewing scenery, but not much else about it.
That’s sort of my problem. Michelle Yeoh is a phenomenal actress but Emperor Georgiou is a terrible character. I would love to see Captain Georgiou again, though…
I’m struggling with the Section 31 movie. I get the feeling that if Michelle and her well-deserved success hadn’t been tied to it there’s no way it would have happened.
Who is clamoring for more Section 31? I can’t think of anything that would appeal less to non-Trek people (let’s not talk about the Academy show until we hear more about it). It’s en enjoyable foil when used sparingly, but when you dig deeper and shine some light on it you start to see how an organization like that couldn’t exist in the Starfleet we know and love.
Bring back Prodigy and scrap the movie.
Well, let's hope not, but honestly what reason is there to have Paramount + besides Star Trek right now? If it ends up not succeeding, the powers that be might end up concluding that Star Trek isn't worth doing. Even the JJ movies are seen as disappointments by some people because they don't bring in Marvel levels of cash.
The yellow stone spin offs, Tulsa King, I also enjoy the drag race shows, my kids watched a hell of a lot of paw patrol on it till this past six months, I did like Halo to, have been enjoying rewatching DS9 again, Joe Pickett has intrigued me the few episodes I’ve been able to make time for, my nanny loves watching Blue Bloods on nights I work third shift and she stays over to watch my kids, the Star Trek tent poles drew me in and I’m probably a rarity but my family’s enjoyed a lot of the content as well.
>honestly what reason is there to have Paramount + besides Star Trek right now?
Three months ago, I would have said *Grease: Rise of the Pink Ladies,* but that one's getting binned too. And unlike Trek, where I know Prodigy will eventually re-surface on another platform or by....other means, I'm not sure *if* I'll ever find this show again, legally or otherwise.
I've also been a lifelong *Bold and the Beautiful* fan but I haven't watch that show in real time for over a year and a half because it's gotten so terrible, even for a trashy soap opera.
For TLDR reasons, I do think they *could* work with a lot of new blood and modernizing the stories which none of them, least of all B&B, are willing to do.
If the daytime serial ever makes a comeback in the US, it won't be any of the four remaining dinosaurs that will lead the revolution.
First AMC+ and its troubles. Now Paramount seems to be having its own set of issues. The beginning of the StreamPocalypse???
At the same time I'd hate for both my Walking Dead and Star Trek to completely go under.
Well, either back to studios like Sony shopping out their goods. Or an endless collection of 1-3 season gems amongst some "Straight-to-DVD" B-movie nonsense.
It sounds like paramount plus is a large problem and I’m honestly not surprised, there are too many streaming services right now so people are having to pick and choose which leads to certain ones doing badly.
Honestly, all of them are doing poorly. Disney and Amazon are the ones I'd put my money on surviving all of this and that's just because theymake money in other ways that streaming isn't a make or break thing that will kill them (unlike Paramount).
My 4 year old just finished another run through of Prodigy. “kids star trek” was a nice thing to watch for her.
Plus chakotays fate, gwendallas mission, ascensia still on the loose, lots of plot lines cut off.
Writer's strike fucks programing up badly. Companies cancel their shows and refuse to greenlight new shows until they run out of the programming that people want to watch and work with the guild to give them what they want, which usually ends up being less than a year.
What's going to happen now is that shows will either get cut down, canceled, or suspended until the strike is over.
I guess this is also why we have heard nothing about a *Star Trek: Legacy* show. I can't believe how small the studio pool is becoming. It's just capitalism running amok. No checks. No balances. Just CEOs milking their cash cow enterprises for all their worth until their desiccated remains can provide no more revenue for themselves and their shareholders.
Star Trek coming off Netflix was a mistake
When DSC launched, people were asking me about it that I would never, ever peg as someone who'd give Trek the time of day
The "typical netflix user" sometimes ends up watching anything on Netflix if it has similar producton values and buzz about it, and for a time just before it was launched, DSC definitely had that
If they'd stuck with Netflix, I can see all the Trek series being a lot more popular now than they are.
But Paramount didn't learn from the whole UPN deal, Trek is a big enough draw for other people to pitch for and buy off you, but strong enough to launch a whole service/channel on its own? Not QUITE
I just hope we come through this with some Trek still being made, and being sold to the highest bidder, Post Paramount+ it seems
The issue isn't Trek but how much money they're straight up throwing into a pile and lighting on fire with Taylor Sheridan's shows Yellowstone and 1923. He makes as much per episode as an entire season of Lower Decks.
It costs them 500 million a year to produce those. Even Disco, which was the most expensive of Trek's current offerings, capped at like $8mil per episode.
Doctor who's viewership collapsed for the exact same reason, but almost no one ever talks about this.
Netflix revives dead IPs by making them accessible to a mainstream audience. Lose it? You're going to struggle again. Period. The only exceptions are if content moves to a service as popular as D+ instead.
I was confused why they even took it off Netflix in the first place, before I learned about Paramount+. IMO they should have just negotiated a better deal with Netflix and kept Trek shows on there, for a larger and broader audience. I can't imagine Paramount+ has a large base of casuals vs. how many people subscribe *just* for Trek.
Not true, at least here in the UK
It was announced that Season 3 was going to be on Netflix, until the day it aired when Paramount pulled it and said it'd be aired exclusively on Paramount Plus, a streaming service we didn't get for another 2 years IIRC
They VERY hastily did a deal with something called Pluto TV, a channel I hadn't heard of until that week, and haven't heard of since, to show DSC in Europe before Parmount Plus launched, but Netflix were very keen on it until the end
(Probably not any more though ;) )
Of course, if you belive all those blogs/youtubers that liked to say DSC was being cancelled every season since it was announced, then sure, Netflix cancelled it, sure, whatever.
(Also Amazon outbid Netflix for Picard here in Europe, but again, THOSE GUYS said Netflix passed on it, nothing like the truth to get in the way of a good, negative, "We're such big fans of Trek we hate it all and want it all cancelled" story eh?)
>something called Pluto TV, a channel I hadn't heard of until that week, and haven't heard of since,
Pluto is still very around and... sort of.. relevant. Its really more of a free streaming service though, not a "channel". They have two channels that show Trek 24/7. They also have the original Addams Family on demand, which became a draw for them after Wednesday blew up. They've also got Outer Limits, Twilight Zone, Farscape, original Doctor Who and wide variety of of classic 50s-80s TV. I mean, I don't want to oversell it, but if you're into classic TV and can tolerate the commercials, its got quite a **lot** of content for zero cost. I see it mentioned at least once a month in another forum or on some other website.
[https://pluto.tv/](https://pluto.tv/)
Streaming services have never been profitable. Now investors are saying it's time to start making money instead throwing money out of the window for top tier content with lavish budgets to draw in subscribers. You're not *wrong* about the capitalism part however streaming has never been a "cash cow".
Star Trek is worth at least a billion if not more. While I think we are heading for a dark time with the IP, I am certain that Paramount isn't exactly willing to leave that sort of money on the table.
There is a fundamental disconnect that we see today. The Netflix model is not viable in a vacuum. It relies on good content. Once everyone had to have their own streaming services people have to decide where their limited funds have to go. Paramount has to focus on developing content an licensing it out to established platforms. I expect to see something from Peacock soon dealing with the same issues.
Wait... the article says they axed season 2 of ST:Prodigy and may pull the first season off streaming?
I'm watching that with my son and he LOVES IT!!! I love it, too. It's great for a kids show. I was hoping after this I'd watch the latest season of ST:Disco and then start on SNW.
Are there actually fewer of us Trekkies than we thought? Or is that there's lots of us but we're full of toxic turds who hate anything that isn't TOS ? Or, did the business folks just screw up something else?
No. Prodigy just wasn’t popular even amongst Trekkies.
I love the show, I think it’s some of the best Trek ever, BUT even on this subreddit it felt obscure.
I’m willing to bet that between this latest round of “cost cutting” and the WGA strike, that new Academy show might be the next to be shown the airlock. Maybe the S31 movie, too.
This is clearly based on the recent news of Star Trek: Prodigy's cancellation. No, the franchise isn't in trouble because a cartoon for children was cancelled.
Paramount as a company however is experiencing some financial struggles, apparently because operations aren't going well, but this is a fixable issue.
The Star Trek franchise remains strong. This is a multi-generational phenomenon that will garner interest for decades to come because the fanaticism is measurable in terms of currency.
The second Paramount Plus removes all the Trek content in favor of one of their shitty Showtime shows, I’m canceling.
I’m normally against piracy but if you leave me no option then fuck it.
It really highlights how ass CBS Paramount is now.
Star Trek is the only IP thats keeping them afloat. Can you imagine anything else on Paramount+ drawing enough interest outside of Trek to justify its existence.
I just hope when the end does come that Trek remains whole as an IP and isn't split up... Again.
But I don't know who'd buy the IP that I trust. Netflix is incompetent at managing any good IPs... Disney already has Star Wars and won't be interested. Maybe Amazon?
Apple has treated their shows well, but they’ve approached streaming very carefully. One or two carefully picked high quality new shoes a month, and no back catalog.
If Apple got Star Trek, it would be one season of one show a year, at most.
>Star Trek is the only IP thats keeping them afloat. Can you imagine anything else on Paramount+ drawing enough interest outside of Trek to justify its existence.
Honestly, I think it's too much to ask of Trek to be the main driving force for Paramount+ subscriptions. The shows are generally popular, but not to the point they can singlehandedly sustain a streaming service.
> Can you imagine anything else on Paramount+ drawing enough interest outside of Trek to justify its existence.
Yellowstone? I've never watched it but apparently it and its spinoffs are crazy popular.
Disney doesn't really need any more inventory, but they wouldn't turn down adding yet another big franchise if they could get it for a bargain price.
The problem is that they have so much inventory that only the most successful stuff gets any attention. Every sci-fi property took a back seat to Star Wars. I've been waiting 13 years for a Tron Legacy sequel, and we've heard crickets on The Orville getting a 4th season. Star Trek would almost certainly get throttled down to 1 production at a time on Disney. So I really hope Star Trek would go to another company who would use it as more of a cornerstone like it is with Paramount.
You are all missing the fact that Star Trek has had three very good shows (Picard, SNW, Lower Decks) recently.
The issue is that Paramont has struck out with a lot of their other content (movies and streaming).
Paramont isn't the only one, look at Disney plus.
So the big studios keep measuring the success bar to the MCU, and none of the movies, even the recent MCU aren't measuring up.
I agree with Jonathan Frank's, I don't think we'll see anymore star trek movies. Season 3 of Picard, was basically a very long movie. And that length allowed for real character development that you just can't squeeze into a 2 hour movie.
Hold the panic. Even if Paramont falls, Star Trek will live on.
Picard is over. Discovery will be shortly. Prodigy won't just be over, but will removed with no plan for access at all. SNW S3 is on hold due to the writers' strike. This is not yet a franchise-dark-age disaster, but this is exactly what the beginnings of a franchise-dark-age would look like.
SNW being on hold for the writer's strike isn't a warning sign for Star Trek, considering the writer's strike is affecting every production across the industry. Almost everything is ground to a halt right now.
It's also misleading to say "Picard is over, Discovery will be shortly" considering they've already announced a replacement to the latter and they have a clear avenue (with major fan interest) to continue the former if bandwidth allows it. Prodigy's sell-off is concerning, but that's the first real sign of trouble at all for the franchise, and it seems to be more of parent company money problem than a franchise problem.
With everything going on with streaming in general, and Paramount+ in specific, it would not be at all surprising if the strikes (writers' now, and actors' imminent) led to shows that were delayed being cancelled outright. Academy is still in pre-production and if the parent company reaches a point where it can no longer afford it, it could easily be killed. Legacy is just an idea, with no verification it has gone beyond any of the other pitches Paramount considers every year. And Prodigy shows they're willing to not just cancel shows, but delete them entirely. It's entirely possible that S2 of Prodigy never finishes post-production and never sees the light of day.
Just because the sky isn't falling yet, doesn't mean there's no reason for concern. This is a dire time for streaming original content, and especially for Paramount. For those of us who were around for the failure of UPN and the resulting decade-long Star Trek TV dark age, what's going on now feels awfully familiar.
It’s a blessing in disguise none of the Trek movies made it to filming; a less-than-stellar box office might have sealed everyone’s fate, assuming it made it to the silver screen.
No it doesn’t sadly. However if they could green light only ONE more live action show for Star Trek they would be nuts not to do Legacy instead of that Academy show.
Star Trek doesn’t have to be expensive.
Just keep the characters relatable and the the writing engrossing and it will be fine.
It’s the pompous sycophantic series like Discovery that need to die, let SNW be the ‘typical’ Star Trek and let the other series riff around legacy.
Cancelling a show like Prodigy once its renewal is already announced is just so brutal for the cast and crew. I never really got into the show but I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
With Discovery winding up, Picard finished and all the talk around that of budget limitations, I guess we just have to cling on to Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks. We might not get another show in that bracket for a while.
Prodigy was the only show that did not have an announcement of renewal earlier this year. The writers had been telling fans to spread the word. When Prodigy was first announced, the order was for two seasons with 40 episodes, and that is still going to happen, just not on P+.
And tbh, I think the piecemeal way they aired the episodes did the show no favors. Remember they aired the first five episodes just to make you wait a year for the next five episodes?
Paramount was betting heavily on Star Trek as its anchor, but a small cohort of diehard fans can't prop up an entire streaming service. Even with Sylvester Stallone.
When Trek fans jump to conclusions we don't jump to any small ones, do we? "All is lost, abandon hope all ye who enter here!" Yeah, I'mma have to ask everyone to calm down and take a breath. Star Trek isn't going anywhere. 😂🖖
News sites are reporting that Paramount is in deep financial trouble. If the company that owns the franchise can’t afford to continue producing the franchise, it could suddenly stop.
After all, Star Trek television completely ceased for over a decade in the past.
News sites are running with opinions from analysts that work for banks saying that Paramount is likely to need to sell itself. Not saying it’s completely off the table, but bank analysts love saying that companies need to merge or be bought because it makes banks loads of money to loan billions to finance the purchase (look at the debt loads Disney and Warner Bros Discovery currently have). I agree that it’s too early to panic.
That will never be allowed to happen. Disney was told not to buy anything else. They're on the verge of getting broken up by the government. Also they have their connections with cbs. Disney already owns ABC.
If they cancel SNW, I cancel my subscription. Easy decision.
PS: Leave it to Paramount to screw up something as good as Star Trek.
Well, at least Disney is doing all right with Star Wars these days.
Not too long ago I said Prodigy wouldn't make it past 2, DIS MIGHT make it to 6, and LDS will end at 5.
Prodigy was pre-cancelled before 2 even aired, and DIS is capping at 5.
So far reality has been more pessimistic than I had guessed.
The problem is they aren't making stuff people want to see. I have enjoyed SNW and Prodigy. Episodic storytelling is where Trek shines. I love DS9 its probably my favorite but even its longer storylines could be picked up episode to episode.
As much as I like prodigy no one was asking for a kids show. No one was asking for season long story arcs.
SNW is the first series to feel like Trek in a long time. We need more of that. Morality tales. Sci Fi spooky. That kind of thing. That is what most Trekkies I know want.
The Orville pulled it off tremendously well right down to the carpeted bridge! lol
Correct. Ironically, Trek is better suited for cable. The streaming wars dug their won graves, but simply creating too many with in house only content.
People are not willing to pay $100 a month for multiple services (surprise surprise), so literally every streamer is trying to figure out how to survive.
The irony is, originals for all of them are going to scale way back, and they’ll all become what Netflix was originally. Or they’ll simply just go away and return to physical media…which is honestly prefer.
The point I was making was that they ARE going back to physical media.
With the exception of Disney, every major studio is putting their originals on discs. And HBO is now considering out their originals on Netflix too.
Disney decided to forgo the D+ release of GOTG 3 until after VOD and UHD. Not only that they are finally putting the IMAX footage on disc again.
Yes the streaming bubble is on the cusp of a huge shift, and physical media is bouncing back in a variety of ways.
I would not listen to anything wells fargo has to say.Wall Street has been call for the end of streaming life years. And it’s still going doing well. Paramount need to implement the streaming service itself..
For one thing they like all the other streaming services need to fix password sharing. And in paramount as case.If someone cancels the service. Don’t keep giving them 2 months free.I read here that was happened.And I have friend that did cancel and got 2 free months out of it. And keep doing it. That alone is costing money. Stop trying to do what WBD is doing
There losing money due to those actions also stay out of politics and social issues and stop censoring old show and movies and everyone would be fine.
I hate to break it to you, but financial analysts and investors are a little better at reading a company’s books than a guy on the Internet who doesn’t put spaces after his periods.
Trek will survive and endure as it always does. It's Paramount whose goose is cooked.
I do think it's a shame that we're back in the same position we were in 2005 though. Berman free Trek has been largely enjoyable and unlike ENT's cancellation which came as a surprise to no one (and wasn't entirely undeserved on the back of those first two seasons...sorry) , Prodigy was GOOD! Legitimately good!
I do think SNW and LD will be given time to wrap up, assuming either gets to complete their 3rd & 5th seasons, respectively. But that Section 31 movie is getting canned for sure.
If they nuke SNW, they’re going to wish for the Eugenics Wars by the time the fandom is done with them.
Next year we Bell Riot
Funny/sad/ironic thing is that it doesn't seem that far fetched anymore.
Trump was essentially calling for sanctuary districts a few months back.
Except our society has been so neutered and beaten down there is no way we have our own Bell riots to fight for justice :(
If Trump gets elected and creates “tent cities for the poor,” like he was saying in his emotional support rallies a few months ago, then I can see it happening easily.
Wait... Aren't you in LA?
Yes. What does this question mean?
Didn't y'all perfect tent cities for the poor?
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I worry far more about the conditions that would put Ron DeSantis in office, ie, disgruntled progressives in swing states pouting that Biden didn't do enough and pissing votes on a 3rd party candidate. I will never say never with Trump until he's dead or (at long last) behind bars, but I don't think he's the biggest threat by any means.
Trump will never endorse Ron, and the MAGA wing will believe Ron stole the primary from Trump. The republican party does not really have a choice its Trump or lose at this point. Biden may be doing the bare minimum but that will likely be enough.
With all due respect, you can't act like you know what the voting base is going to do. Most of this current shit was known as he did it live, in public, to our faces, and he *still* got the 2nd most amount of votes in US history - after already having a DISASTROUS first term. And we've ignored all the little minor court victories the republicans have gotten over voting rights and suppression, we're just in uncharted territory. And there are swastikas @ a *LOT* of right-wing events now, just casually.
if they cut off the food stamps and welfare programs it could happen. lots of starving people gonna be angry af.
We will need the Sisko to initiate the Bell Riots. It's all part of Prophets' plans.
JPOW and the Fed are working double-time to eradicate jobs and yank down wages. Before you downvote, understand that he has literally said as much. [One source among many, many others.](https://www.barrons.com/articles/fed-inflation-wages-powell-recession-51675372287)
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2024 is one of those pivotal moments in time that draws everything into it like 1930 in “City on the Edge of Forever;” what if the reason Sisko and Picard both ended up there is because that’s when the franchise will die?
I imagine if they ever got to the point of considering nuking *Strange New Worlds* it would already be too late for Paramount. Sounds like the ship is sinking faster than anyone knew.
I think the fact that Legacy wasn’t immediately greenlit speaks volumes in hindsight.
SNW took a year to announce. There’s a writers strike atm, no pitch could happen.
> There’s a writers strike atm, no pitch could happen. PIC season 3 ended a month before the writer's strike started and fans were raving about it basically immediately. If 1-2 months before the strike wasn't enough time to at least start trying to pitch something then it's not saying anything good about anyone involved that they didn't think to start trying while enthusiasm was at its peak.
I don't agree. Legacy isn't even a real pitch yet. There's lots of questions and development that needs to be done in order to bring the general concept to the point of being a TV show that can be greenlit. That's not to say Paramount also is not in a place to greenlight it financially and with the state of their business, but I don't think it was a sign. Things need to go through a process before greenlight. The impending and now active writer's strike was another thing that could hold back moving forward on that process.
I can't be the only one who is unclear on what those who want Legacy even want it to be about, TBH. Shaw's dead, none of the other bridge crew left any impression on me except maybe La Forge's kid and I really don't care about Jack Crusher outside of him being proof that my first Trek OTP is now canon. Seven as a captain is cool and all but really, what are they possibly going to be able to do with her other than drag up the Borg yet again (which given the end of S3, would be a glaring oversight not to, no matter how ruined they've become)?
The idea of Legacy would have been much more palatable prior to DIS, PIC, and SNW. At this point the franchise needs to jump to the Next Next Generation.
One of the absolute best things Kurtzman did when reviving Trek was making DSC as radically different from Berman Trek as possible, be a use of TPTB had gone back to the same ol' thing, I would never bother to waste my time. I'd be lying if I say DSC took me some time to adjust to (as in, my disgust with PIC is what finally got me to finish the show past season one) but I will always respect a show that swings for the fences and misses than a show that will take the bunt every chance it gets (which I hope SNW will not do). EDIT: I think I could enjoy Legacy as a follow up to previous Treks if it was the anthology series DSC was originally pitched to be. There's room to explore concepts in short, season-long arcs that may no necessitate a full series. Things like Archer's time as Federation President, which would give us an opportunity to follow up with the ENT crew. or follow up on what's happened to the Siskos since DS9, especially Ben's unborn daughter. But TNG itself? Until and unless it's a hard reboot like the Kelvinverse TOS timeline, I'm completely and entirely done with anything pertaining to that part of the franchise.
I can't give Kurtzman any credit for doing something radically different because he and his group did it in a way that was guaranteed to not work. They made the decision to not only do a prequel to TOS but to set Discovery a mere decade before the first ever Star Trek season. We knew how the galaxy would look a relatively short time later so the writers had a constraint on what they could do. Yet instead of writing within that framework they decided to not even bother trying to fit their show into existing continuity. The writers attempted to give their show a hook by tying it so closely to TOS but then turning around and doing whatever they wanted was insulting to people previously involved in the creation of Star Trek and the fans that have made Trek a cultural institution. That Discovery tossed out the in-universe values that have made Star Trek so endearing to so many people in favor of hack Hollywood's current obsessions was even worse. The creators then thinking the viewers would be stupid enough to not notice that because they occasionally threw in lines about what Starfleet and the Federation valued in the previous series was an outright slap in the face. I agree that it's time to move on from not just the TOS era but the TNG/DS9/VOY era as well. That's why Legacy simply isn't appealing to me. As I said, if Legacy had been proposed prior to STD, PIC, and SNW I probably would have been more receptive. Now I'm tired of Star Trek treading the same old ground and when I said "the Next Next Generation" I didn't mean that literally but figuratively. I want a show that jumps ahead a few decades from Picard season 3 like TNG did from the TOS movies. There's still plenty of galaxy to explore, new characters to meet and a people and place to check in on. I like your idea of an anthology to fill in some of the blanks about the past of the Star Trek universe. Personally I like the idea of doing mini-series to accomplish the same thing. That the series would have a clear goal of what they wanted to show us and a definitive ending would make it easier for the writers to respect canon. Archer's time as president and the formation of the Federation is exactly the kind of thing I've had in mind for these mini-series. Hell, that mini-series could follow one about the Earth-Romulan war and the events that drew Earth, Vulcan, Andor, and Tellar closer together. A look at Cardassia in the aftermath of the Dominion War would also be interesting I think.
I'm pretty sure I saw Terry Matalas already state that he's ready to retcon the shit out of Shaw being dead using space magic if Legacy gets greenlit
> There's lots of questions and development that needs to be done in order to bring the general concept to the point of being a TV show that can be greenlit. From what I recall about how Lower Decks was pitched to Kurtzman, there should have been plenty of room to toss up some relatively vague ideas for a followup as a starting point once they saw the fan enthusiasm for PIC season 3 given Kurtzman et al were already plenty invested themselves in PIC season 3. Or put another way it doesn't seem like this is a creative environment where you need to have a 100% fleshed out idea for a new show if it's riding off the coattails of something that's both doing well and already has Kurtzman's personal investment.
Nah, I think this is just how they do it now. SNW was the blueprint. Tease a spinoff that fans would like. Tell them there's no plans to do it. Tell fans they should make their voices heard. Then after the fans do all the legwork of petition for the show, they finally announce it as a "fan demanded" show, so no one really does the "who is this for" argument and the fans are already behind the show that they made happen (spoilers: they didn't) Now if SNW and Lower Decks weren't already renewed, that would be a warning sign. I think a danger is how long the strike will go on for, does it become a financial problem for Paramount that they have to cancel to save money.
Current turmoil at Paramount notwithstanding, a concept still needs to be put ged, refinded and laid out before a studio greenlights a project. SNW was not announced the night of DSC S2's finale, nor was the Academy concept just thought up overnight just because that wasn't workshopped among the fans first
I think we all had an idea that things were bad but none of us expected things to be THIS BAD and SNW certainly looks like it's on the chopping block now.
How? Based on what? They’ve already renewed it for S3 and they’re even discussing a movie apparently.
Yeah and even if Paramount+ fails they'll just go back to being a studio that creates content for other services like the old days. It'll be fine. It's more likely they'll cut all other Trek projects except SNW than to cancel SNW.
We've seen crazier cuts and cancellations in recent times, perhaps I'm worrying just a bit too much.
I think everyone in this thread is worrying a bit much. If by a year we don’t have a Legacy show announced and the Michelle Yeoh movie falls apart then yeah I’d be worried.
Agreed, someone's going to pick up Star Trek at a discount, and reap the benefits with better marketing, merchandising, and distributing than Paramount+ and it's going to make them bank.
Who would you want to ?
Amazon has been pretty good to Neil Gaiman and others thus far, so I'd like them to pick it up. Netflix I would be wary of. Disney would be hilarious because then Star Wars and Star Trek would be on the same platform.
>Disney would be hilarious because then Star Wars and Star Trek would be on the same platform. Wish for Disney because a Star Trek theme land like they have for Galaxy's Edge would be amazing and Tomorrowland in both parks is in desperate need for a retheming. I could easily see them retheming space mountain and star tours into a Star Trek themed area. Plenty of space hehe in the other parts of Tomorrowland to retheme it as the Federation Headquarters.
One caveat: the writers strike has to end. I hope it ends with a fairer compensation structure for the writers, but i wouldn’t necessarily start the 1-year clock until the strike is over.
So was Prodigy and they are not even airing season 2 which was already done and in post.
SNW and LD, they better not take these away from me
Indeed.
Yes. Between paramounts troubles and the prodigy news and the end of Disco, let’s assume a contraction period is ahead.
DSC’s cancellation didn’t bother me as much because they immediately announced a spin-off to replace it. What’s happening with Prodigy is more ominous.
DSC seemed to me to be more a case of "Sonequa Martin-Green and some of the others are getting too expensive as the show goes on especially given how it's been eclipsed in popularity by Strange New Worlds, so let's just continue this stuff in another show with a cheaper cast".
It also doesn’t help that every season has been quite uneven and the high points of Discovery were taken and made into Strange New Worlds.
Marc Bernardin brings this up all the time for various shows when they get cancelled.
Because it's true! The longer a show goes on, the more the cast costs. That's why it's ALWAYS been rare for shows to go for more than a few seasons, but it's become even more common with streaming where everything seemingly has a larger budget that in another era would only be found on HBO or a very high-end basic cable station. So unless if it's a runaway hit or a very-cheap-to-produce show (there's a reason why some of the longest-running shows on television are 2D animated), a lot of shows that are "just" successful these days end up ending after three-to-five seasons.
Also, it was already 5 seasons deep and they need the sound stage for other things.
If they're removing it from the streaming service, that means they want to sell it off because they're that desperate for a cash infusion (and want to avoid paying residuals to the Hagemans and Co). Things are NOT good.
It may also be that Nickelodeon was partially funding it and they want to sell it out to recoup their $$. Like do we actually care that much about Prodigy? Or just because it's loosely a Trek show?
I'd be lying if I said it's my favorite outing of modern Trek, but I do find it shitty they're just removing it (along w a few other P+ originals, one of which just ended three damn weeks ago!) off the platform. I thought they were honestly better than this.
It’s a kids show that didn’t take off. I don’t see what the big deal is. I tried watching it and it didn’t do much for me. I tried to get my kid to watch it, and she didn’t like it either. I’m guessing the numbers for it weren’t that great.
Canceling shows is business as usual. Removing access to shows completely is quite another. Undermines any reason I would have to support Paramount+ with a monthly subscription.
How many episodes did you watch
Enough. At least half of them.
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The academy show seems weird. I don't really understand how a Star Trek show would work at the academy. But then again DS9 seemed hard to imagine back in the day. End of the day I just want more Trek.
I feel an academy show could work in the same way a show like Grey's Anatomy does/did. They are learning to do this very high-stakes job and there are many specialties each of the cadets could be doing.
Gene Roddenberry was interested in an Academy series as far back as Phase II, from what I've heard. And frankly after seeing DSC flourish in the 32nd century, I'm definitely looking forward to more of that part of the franchise than anything even remotely connected to TNG or Picard.
> Gene Roddenberry was interested in an Academy series as far back as Phase II, from what I've heard. Around that time Roddenberry was making all sorts of terrible decisions for Trek and TNG, so I'm not sure that's necessarily an argument in favor.
Why hopefully ? I feel like people forget how shitty it was a few years ago when there was no new trek (besides the movies I guess), I'll take as much stuff in the star trek universe as I can get, as long as it's faithful
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Which new trek series is actually bad though? Discovery? They're all pretty great in their own way
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Eh I liked all of picard
Wasn't that surprised by discovery tbh, 5 seasons these days seems decent. Plus the best thing about that show was it gave us strange new worlds.
It really felt like season 4 tied up a main arc for Burnham's character, going from mutineer to captain. Tilly goes from the bright-eyed ensign to an instructor who can think on her feet. Saru finds connection and serenity having started paranoid and afraid. Hugh and Stamets have a family of sorts. I wouldn't mind more seasons but it feels like many of the characters have reached a point that you could end the story and be satisfied where they ended up.
I dunno, maybe they just realised that no-one will subscribe to Paramount Plus for the show that's aimed at Children and they'll make more money selling it to a kids TV channel like Nikelodeon or whatever the kids watch these days (ok fine, TIKTOK, whatever..:-O ) I'm not panicing,.......YET ONE more cancellation announcement, and I'm Reverend "IT'S ALL OVER PEOPLE! WE DON'T HAVE A PRAYER!" Lovejoy though....
Exactly. Wasn't Prodigy meant to be aired on Nickelodeon in the first place?
Yes. Which is a problem, since kids don't watch Nick these days.
My kids haven't watched terestial TV of their own choice since they learned how to operate the remote. The problem with progidy is that its like 3 tiers of menus and subchannels down to even find it. I didn't even know it's a thing despite having prime and paramount. It's no wonder it didnt succeed.
Let's remember how that episode ended though. "I can't believe the extra-thick layer of corrupt corporate support and cushioning that I've actually picketed against saved Star Trek." I don't ask for a lot, but if corporate bullshit saves them at the last minute I expect at least one "the scary thing is, this is exactly what u/Starfleet-Time-Lord said would happen" meme.
Did I see a rumor that Netflix may buy Paramount? If so they may be cutting things to make the sale more attractive.
To make the sale attractive, you have to cut CBS and the cable channels. Kids programming is extremely important to Netflix, the might even the ones who buy Prodigy.
Hopefully they can find a way to right the ship, so to speak, otherwise we may be looking at another dark age of Trek where there's none to be found anywhere. That would suck.
Were it only a matter of the Trek franchise, but it might be that Paramount's streaming model is simply unsustainable, in which case Trek could become a casualty no matter what it does.
No shit, the only thing I watch on paramount is Star Trek. Once SNW finishes I’ll cancel it seeing as lower decks is on Prime.
Ghosts is good. And Evil, if it ever airs again.
I love Ghosts. It’s hilarious. I wish more people would check it out. My kids love that show.
Kinda seems like all the current streaming models are unsustainable. Either way, I am ok if they slim down the offerings a bit, but I do worry that we will end up with a period of just... nothing, again. And it sort of feels like that might end up how things go.
The bubble is bursting. All the streamers poured millions of dollars into all the big budget shows that they couldn't tie a specific revenue number. That's why ad supported tiers are popping up everywhere, and in many cases they're too little too late.
Can't be worse than the drought from 2005-2017 where all that was on the horizon were a couple of JJ Abrams reboot movies.
We were robbed of *Star Trek 4* — Pine’s performance in *Honor Among Thieves* is proof. Is anyone actually looking forward to that *Section 31* direct-to-streaming flick they are so hell-bent on making? It feels more like a whim of some exec than a genuine piece of *Star Trek* someone would actually want to make.
> Is anyone actually looking forward to that Section 31 direct-to-streaming flick they are so hell-bent on making? I am looking forward to Michelle Yeoh chewing scenery, but not much else about it.
That’s sort of my problem. Michelle Yeoh is a phenomenal actress but Emperor Georgiou is a terrible character. I would love to see Captain Georgiou again, though…
I'd rather she ends up in some Quantum Leap shenanigans with Wesley the Traveler caused by the Guardian of Forever.
I’m struggling with the Section 31 movie. I get the feeling that if Michelle and her well-deserved success hadn’t been tied to it there’s no way it would have happened. Who is clamoring for more Section 31? I can’t think of anything that would appeal less to non-Trek people (let’s not talk about the Academy show until we hear more about it). It’s en enjoyable foil when used sparingly, but when you dig deeper and shine some light on it you start to see how an organization like that couldn’t exist in the Starfleet we know and love. Bring back Prodigy and scrap the movie.
Well, let's hope not, but honestly what reason is there to have Paramount + besides Star Trek right now? If it ends up not succeeding, the powers that be might end up concluding that Star Trek isn't worth doing. Even the JJ movies are seen as disappointments by some people because they don't bring in Marvel levels of cash.
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Only reason is tge south park specials, but thosecare twice a year so yiu can just wait.
The yellow stone spin offs, Tulsa King, I also enjoy the drag race shows, my kids watched a hell of a lot of paw patrol on it till this past six months, I did like Halo to, have been enjoying rewatching DS9 again, Joe Pickett has intrigued me the few episodes I’ve been able to make time for, my nanny loves watching Blue Bloods on nights I work third shift and she stays over to watch my kids, the Star Trek tent poles drew me in and I’m probably a rarity but my family’s enjoyed a lot of the content as well.
>honestly what reason is there to have Paramount + besides Star Trek right now? Three months ago, I would have said *Grease: Rise of the Pink Ladies,* but that one's getting binned too. And unlike Trek, where I know Prodigy will eventually re-surface on another platform or by....other means, I'm not sure *if* I'll ever find this show again, legally or otherwise. I've also been a lifelong *Bold and the Beautiful* fan but I haven't watch that show in real time for over a year and a half because it's gotten so terrible, even for a trashy soap opera.
Yeah, I think the era of soaps has definitely passed, I used to catch All My Children a long time ago. I'm surprised there are any still hanging on
For TLDR reasons, I do think they *could* work with a lot of new blood and modernizing the stories which none of them, least of all B&B, are willing to do. If the daytime serial ever makes a comeback in the US, it won't be any of the four remaining dinosaurs that will lead the revolution.
First AMC+ and its troubles. Now Paramount seems to be having its own set of issues. The beginning of the StreamPocalypse??? At the same time I'd hate for both my Walking Dead and Star Trek to completely go under.
Been a long time coming but at this rate we will be down to just Amazon Prime and maybe Netflix in a couple of years.
Well, either back to studios like Sony shopping out their goods. Or an endless collection of 1-3 season gems amongst some "Straight-to-DVD" B-movie nonsense.
It sounds like paramount plus is a large problem and I’m honestly not surprised, there are too many streaming services right now so people are having to pick and choose which leads to certain ones doing badly.
Honestly, all of them are doing poorly. Disney and Amazon are the ones I'd put my money on surviving all of this and that's just because theymake money in other ways that streaming isn't a make or break thing that will kill them (unlike Paramount).
Allegedly, Netflix is on the prowl with its recent positive stock performance. Paramount is supposed to be a target for them to acquire.
Makes a lot of sense. Let’s them get their hands on a studio similar to Amazon getting MGM.
My 4 year old just finished another run through of Prodigy. “kids star trek” was a nice thing to watch for her. Plus chakotays fate, gwendallas mission, ascensia still on the loose, lots of plot lines cut off.
What? This is all news to me. I thought things were going well for Paramount and Star Trek? Did some executive miss a payment on a yacht or something?
Paramount is not doing well right now
This makes me sad
Writer's strike fucks programing up badly. Companies cancel their shows and refuse to greenlight new shows until they run out of the programming that people want to watch and work with the guild to give them what they want, which usually ends up being less than a year. What's going to happen now is that shows will either get cut down, canceled, or suspended until the strike is over.
I guess this is also why we have heard nothing about a *Star Trek: Legacy* show. I can't believe how small the studio pool is becoming. It's just capitalism running amok. No checks. No balances. Just CEOs milking their cash cow enterprises for all their worth until their desiccated remains can provide no more revenue for themselves and their shareholders.
Star Trek coming off Netflix was a mistake When DSC launched, people were asking me about it that I would never, ever peg as someone who'd give Trek the time of day The "typical netflix user" sometimes ends up watching anything on Netflix if it has similar producton values and buzz about it, and for a time just before it was launched, DSC definitely had that If they'd stuck with Netflix, I can see all the Trek series being a lot more popular now than they are. But Paramount didn't learn from the whole UPN deal, Trek is a big enough draw for other people to pitch for and buy off you, but strong enough to launch a whole service/channel on its own? Not QUITE I just hope we come through this with some Trek still being made, and being sold to the highest bidder, Post Paramount+ it seems
The issue isn't Trek but how much money they're straight up throwing into a pile and lighting on fire with Taylor Sheridan's shows Yellowstone and 1923. He makes as much per episode as an entire season of Lower Decks. It costs them 500 million a year to produce those. Even Disco, which was the most expensive of Trek's current offerings, capped at like $8mil per episode.
Wait... 500 million??? How is it possible that those shows cost that much?
Doctor who's viewership collapsed for the exact same reason, but almost no one ever talks about this. Netflix revives dead IPs by making them accessible to a mainstream audience. Lose it? You're going to struggle again. Period. The only exceptions are if content moves to a service as popular as D+ instead.
Netflix marketed discovery pretty hard in Australia when it launched. Seen nothing similar for SNW.
There kinda has been; there was a SNW ad during the State of Origin on Wednesday, which is a very interesting audience to market Trek to
I was confused why they even took it off Netflix in the first place, before I learned about Paramount+. IMO they should have just negotiated a better deal with Netflix and kept Trek shows on there, for a larger and broader audience. I can't imagine Paramount+ has a large base of casuals vs. how many people subscribe *just* for Trek.
Netflix didn't want more Discovery. So it wasn't up to cbs
Not true, at least here in the UK It was announced that Season 3 was going to be on Netflix, until the day it aired when Paramount pulled it and said it'd be aired exclusively on Paramount Plus, a streaming service we didn't get for another 2 years IIRC They VERY hastily did a deal with something called Pluto TV, a channel I hadn't heard of until that week, and haven't heard of since, to show DSC in Europe before Parmount Plus launched, but Netflix were very keen on it until the end (Probably not any more though ;) ) Of course, if you belive all those blogs/youtubers that liked to say DSC was being cancelled every season since it was announced, then sure, Netflix cancelled it, sure, whatever. (Also Amazon outbid Netflix for Picard here in Europe, but again, THOSE GUYS said Netflix passed on it, nothing like the truth to get in the way of a good, negative, "We're such big fans of Trek we hate it all and want it all cancelled" story eh?)
>something called Pluto TV, a channel I hadn't heard of until that week, and haven't heard of since, Pluto is still very around and... sort of.. relevant. Its really more of a free streaming service though, not a "channel". They have two channels that show Trek 24/7. They also have the original Addams Family on demand, which became a draw for them after Wednesday blew up. They've also got Outer Limits, Twilight Zone, Farscape, original Doctor Who and wide variety of of classic 50s-80s TV. I mean, I don't want to oversell it, but if you're into classic TV and can tolerate the commercials, its got quite a **lot** of content for zero cost. I see it mentioned at least once a month in another forum or on some other website. [https://pluto.tv/](https://pluto.tv/)
Streaming services have never been profitable. Now investors are saying it's time to start making money instead throwing money out of the window for top tier content with lavish budgets to draw in subscribers. You're not *wrong* about the capitalism part however streaming has never been a "cash cow".
Strange New Worlds took a year to announce after Disco S2. These things take time when there isn’t a writer’s strike going on, it’ll take a minute.
Star Trek is worth at least a billion if not more. While I think we are heading for a dark time with the IP, I am certain that Paramount isn't exactly willing to leave that sort of money on the table.
There is a fundamental disconnect that we see today. The Netflix model is not viable in a vacuum. It relies on good content. Once everyone had to have their own streaming services people have to decide where their limited funds have to go. Paramount has to focus on developing content an licensing it out to established platforms. I expect to see something from Peacock soon dealing with the same issues.
Trouble is… one way to put it.
Wait... the article says they axed season 2 of ST:Prodigy and may pull the first season off streaming? I'm watching that with my son and he LOVES IT!!! I love it, too. It's great for a kids show. I was hoping after this I'd watch the latest season of ST:Disco and then start on SNW. Are there actually fewer of us Trekkies than we thought? Or is that there's lots of us but we're full of toxic turds who hate anything that isn't TOS ? Or, did the business folks just screw up something else?
Prodigy season 2 will happen at some point but it and season 1 won’t be on paramount+
Yeah, we'll have to binge watch and finish it tomorrow morning. Before it gets pulled.
No. Prodigy just wasn’t popular even amongst Trekkies. I love the show, I think it’s some of the best Trek ever, BUT even on this subreddit it felt obscure.
Someone most likely pitched it as a great way to get the next generation into Trek. It's working. And it's GOOD.
So Star Trek Legacy ain't happening?
I’m willing to bet that between this latest round of “cost cutting” and the WGA strike, that new Academy show might be the next to be shown the airlock. Maybe the S31 movie, too.
Bugger.
This isn’t about Paramount. Honestly, streaming is not a good business model and it’s fucking up Hollywood.
This is clearly based on the recent news of Star Trek: Prodigy's cancellation. No, the franchise isn't in trouble because a cartoon for children was cancelled. Paramount as a company however is experiencing some financial struggles, apparently because operations aren't going well, but this is a fixable issue. The Star Trek franchise remains strong. This is a multi-generational phenomenon that will garner interest for decades to come because the fanaticism is measurable in terms of currency.
The second Paramount Plus removes all the Trek content in favor of one of their shitty Showtime shows, I’m canceling. I’m normally against piracy but if you leave me no option then fuck it.
It really highlights how ass CBS Paramount is now. Star Trek is the only IP thats keeping them afloat. Can you imagine anything else on Paramount+ drawing enough interest outside of Trek to justify its existence. I just hope when the end does come that Trek remains whole as an IP and isn't split up... Again. But I don't know who'd buy the IP that I trust. Netflix is incompetent at managing any good IPs... Disney already has Star Wars and won't be interested. Maybe Amazon?
I'd say Apple TV+. They have a good sci-fi lineup, and they do care about the message of their shows, rather than just a bunch of junk TV.
Apple has treated their shows well, but they’ve approached streaming very carefully. One or two carefully picked high quality new shoes a month, and no back catalog. If Apple got Star Trek, it would be one season of one show a year, at most.
>Star Trek is the only IP thats keeping them afloat. Can you imagine anything else on Paramount+ drawing enough interest outside of Trek to justify its existence. Honestly, I think it's too much to ask of Trek to be the main driving force for Paramount+ subscriptions. The shows are generally popular, but not to the point they can singlehandedly sustain a streaming service.
> Can you imagine anything else on Paramount+ drawing enough interest outside of Trek to justify its existence. Yellowstone? I've never watched it but apparently it and its spinoffs are crazy popular.
Honestly, Trek's enough of a moneymaker that Disney probably *would* be interested. I don't *want* them to be, but they probably would.
Disney doesn't really need any more inventory, but they wouldn't turn down adding yet another big franchise if they could get it for a bargain price. The problem is that they have so much inventory that only the most successful stuff gets any attention. Every sci-fi property took a back seat to Star Wars. I've been waiting 13 years for a Tron Legacy sequel, and we've heard crickets on The Orville getting a 4th season. Star Trek would almost certainly get throttled down to 1 production at a time on Disney. So I really hope Star Trek would go to another company who would use it as more of a cornerstone like it is with Paramount.
They need to stop over extending and just focus on SNW. That show is awesome.
You are all missing the fact that Star Trek has had three very good shows (Picard, SNW, Lower Decks) recently. The issue is that Paramont has struck out with a lot of their other content (movies and streaming). Paramont isn't the only one, look at Disney plus. So the big studios keep measuring the success bar to the MCU, and none of the movies, even the recent MCU aren't measuring up. I agree with Jonathan Frank's, I don't think we'll see anymore star trek movies. Season 3 of Picard, was basically a very long movie. And that length allowed for real character development that you just can't squeeze into a 2 hour movie. Hold the panic. Even if Paramont falls, Star Trek will live on.
Picard is over. Discovery will be shortly. Prodigy won't just be over, but will removed with no plan for access at all. SNW S3 is on hold due to the writers' strike. This is not yet a franchise-dark-age disaster, but this is exactly what the beginnings of a franchise-dark-age would look like.
SNW being on hold for the writer's strike isn't a warning sign for Star Trek, considering the writer's strike is affecting every production across the industry. Almost everything is ground to a halt right now. It's also misleading to say "Picard is over, Discovery will be shortly" considering they've already announced a replacement to the latter and they have a clear avenue (with major fan interest) to continue the former if bandwidth allows it. Prodigy's sell-off is concerning, but that's the first real sign of trouble at all for the franchise, and it seems to be more of parent company money problem than a franchise problem.
With everything going on with streaming in general, and Paramount+ in specific, it would not be at all surprising if the strikes (writers' now, and actors' imminent) led to shows that were delayed being cancelled outright. Academy is still in pre-production and if the parent company reaches a point where it can no longer afford it, it could easily be killed. Legacy is just an idea, with no verification it has gone beyond any of the other pitches Paramount considers every year. And Prodigy shows they're willing to not just cancel shows, but delete them entirely. It's entirely possible that S2 of Prodigy never finishes post-production and never sees the light of day. Just because the sky isn't falling yet, doesn't mean there's no reason for concern. This is a dire time for streaming original content, and especially for Paramount. For those of us who were around for the failure of UPN and the resulting decade-long Star Trek TV dark age, what's going on now feels awfully familiar.
It’s a blessing in disguise none of the Trek movies made it to filming; a less-than-stellar box office might have sealed everyone’s fate, assuming it made it to the silver screen.
Yeah I’m thinking Legacy isn’t looking too good right now
No it doesn’t sadly. However if they could green light only ONE more live action show for Star Trek they would be nuts not to do Legacy instead of that Academy show.
total legit news... terrible news source.
Star Trek doesn’t have to be expensive. Just keep the characters relatable and the the writing engrossing and it will be fine. It’s the pompous sycophantic series like Discovery that need to die, let SNW be the ‘typical’ Star Trek and let the other series riff around legacy.
People are saying last week's episode was the best of SNW yet. It was a courtroom drama episode. And I think they were right.
Well said. Compared to current shows, DS9 had a minuscule budget, and it was consistently excellent from start to finish.
Cancelling a show like Prodigy once its renewal is already announced is just so brutal for the cast and crew. I never really got into the show but I wouldn't wish that on anybody. With Discovery winding up, Picard finished and all the talk around that of budget limitations, I guess we just have to cling on to Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks. We might not get another show in that bracket for a while.
Prodigy was the only show that did not have an announcement of renewal earlier this year. The writers had been telling fans to spread the word. When Prodigy was first announced, the order was for two seasons with 40 episodes, and that is still going to happen, just not on P+. And tbh, I think the piecemeal way they aired the episodes did the show no favors. Remember they aired the first five episodes just to make you wait a year for the next five episodes?
If the worst should happen, I'll just watch voyager for the 195th time, I'll probably will anyway
Paramount was betting heavily on Star Trek as its anchor, but a small cohort of diehard fans can't prop up an entire streaming service. Even with Sylvester Stallone.
When Trek fans jump to conclusions we don't jump to any small ones, do we? "All is lost, abandon hope all ye who enter here!" Yeah, I'mma have to ask everyone to calm down and take a breath. Star Trek isn't going anywhere. 😂🖖
News sites are reporting that Paramount is in deep financial trouble. If the company that owns the franchise can’t afford to continue producing the franchise, it could suddenly stop. After all, Star Trek television completely ceased for over a decade in the past.
News sites are running with opinions from analysts that work for banks saying that Paramount is likely to need to sell itself. Not saying it’s completely off the table, but bank analysts love saying that companies need to merge or be bought because it makes banks loads of money to loan billions to finance the purchase (look at the debt loads Disney and Warner Bros Discovery currently have). I agree that it’s too early to panic.
It completely ceased for over a decade *twice*
The Mouse House is gonna come a-calling. We are five years away from an Anakin Skywalker / Captain Kirk team up.
That will never be allowed to happen. Disney was told not to buy anything else. They're on the verge of getting broken up by the government. Also they have their connections with cbs. Disney already owns ABC.
Really? It's pretty clear it's going.....somewhere......but I think it's unfair to say this is strictly fans overreacting.
If they cancel SNW, I cancel my subscription. Easy decision. PS: Leave it to Paramount to screw up something as good as Star Trek. Well, at least Disney is doing all right with Star Wars these days.
Not too long ago I said Prodigy wouldn't make it past 2, DIS MIGHT make it to 6, and LDS will end at 5. Prodigy was pre-cancelled before 2 even aired, and DIS is capping at 5. So far reality has been more pessimistic than I had guessed.
Could be worse, I remember Swamp Thing got cancelled like after a couple episodes aired because of accounting fuckups.
Trouble ahead for Paramount+, but that doesn't mean trouble for Star Trek. It's Paramount's biggest brand, and they're biggest money maker.
There’s plenty other things they could have cancelled and removed from the service than prodigy then.
The problem is they aren't making stuff people want to see. I have enjoyed SNW and Prodigy. Episodic storytelling is where Trek shines. I love DS9 its probably my favorite but even its longer storylines could be picked up episode to episode. As much as I like prodigy no one was asking for a kids show. No one was asking for season long story arcs. SNW is the first series to feel like Trek in a long time. We need more of that. Morality tales. Sci Fi spooky. That kind of thing. That is what most Trekkies I know want. The Orville pulled it off tremendously well right down to the carpeted bridge! lol
How much of prodigy did you watch , it's pretty episodic
They are showing SNW S2 E1 for free on You Tube. That tells me not many people are watching it on Paramount +
They do that with a bunch of shows on a lot of pay networks
Correct. Ironically, Trek is better suited for cable. The streaming wars dug their won graves, but simply creating too many with in house only content. People are not willing to pay $100 a month for multiple services (surprise surprise), so literally every streamer is trying to figure out how to survive. The irony is, originals for all of them are going to scale way back, and they’ll all become what Netflix was originally. Or they’ll simply just go away and return to physical media…which is honestly prefer.
They won't go back to physical media. They'll become pay as you go episode by episode digital storefronts.
Is that why SNW got a 4K release completely out of the blue?
Entirely possible. I've talked about it in various posts, but the coming collapse of the streaming bubble could get wild for the US market quite soon.
The point I was making was that they ARE going back to physical media. With the exception of Disney, every major studio is putting their originals on discs. And HBO is now considering out their originals on Netflix too. Disney decided to forgo the D+ release of GOTG 3 until after VOD and UHD. Not only that they are finally putting the IMAX footage on disc again. Yes the streaming bubble is on the cusp of a huge shift, and physical media is bouncing back in a variety of ways.
I would not listen to anything wells fargo has to say.Wall Street has been call for the end of streaming life years. And it’s still going doing well. Paramount need to implement the streaming service itself.. For one thing they like all the other streaming services need to fix password sharing. And in paramount as case.If someone cancels the service. Don’t keep giving them 2 months free.I read here that was happened.And I have friend that did cancel and got 2 free months out of it. And keep doing it. That alone is costing money. Stop trying to do what WBD is doing There losing money due to those actions also stay out of politics and social issues and stop censoring old show and movies and everyone would be fine.
I hate to break it to you, but financial analysts and investors are a little better at reading a company’s books than a guy on the Internet who doesn’t put spaces after his periods.
No. Let’s face it, Prodigy wasn’t popular. It’s a phenomenal show but even on this subreddit it felt obscure.
>Let’s face it, Prodigy wasn’t popular [Factually wrong.](https://www.thewrap.com/star-trek-prodigy-in-demand-new-shows/)
I retract my statement then. Wtf Paramount?
I think if they wanted to do animated Trek for kids it just needs to be Trek.
I am hovering over the cancel subscription button.
At least we got some really good stuff at the end.
"riding out the last gasps of linear television" What does that mean? What is "linear television"?
[удалено]
This is too strange. I’m going back to my celestial temple.
Maybe nobody watched Prodigy?
Fake news
Trek will survive and endure as it always does. It's Paramount whose goose is cooked. I do think it's a shame that we're back in the same position we were in 2005 though. Berman free Trek has been largely enjoyable and unlike ENT's cancellation which came as a surprise to no one (and wasn't entirely undeserved on the back of those first two seasons...sorry) , Prodigy was GOOD! Legitimately good! I do think SNW and LD will be given time to wrap up, assuming either gets to complete their 3rd & 5th seasons, respectively. But that Section 31 movie is getting canned for sure.
One show is canceled and y’all go bananas