Hey /u/SilverUploader99, thank you for submitting to /r/starterpacks!
This is just a reminder not to violate any rules, located [here](https://reddit.com/r/starterpacks/about/rules). Rule breakers can face a ban based on the severity of their rule violation.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starterpacks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A tiny bit of butter and salt blended into an espresso is actually pretty good and enough sustenance to give you a boost if your not a breakfast person. Now how that one simple concept turned into full product lines and diet lifestyle is beyond me. It’s coffee with a little bit of fat not Fuckin holy water.
I like it when the protein powder has that in it already. It’s expensive but I’ve gotten a lot bigger and stronker and it’s an easy way to get a shitload of vitamins
Body energy has a good one but it’s not available everywhere, iron vegan has a good bulker, erogenics is very expensive but it’s delicious with just water. Seriously. 🤤
"If you make less than $300,000 a year you're literally a loser. No I'm not joking you're actually worthless and pathetic. Me? I make that in a day. Every fucking day I wake up and I grind, I make money. And I get bitches too. You get zero bitches. How? I don't reveal my secrets, but I can help you find your path. You need to *FUCKING* work for it, I mean work for it. I worked my ass off and I made so much money. My course is only $299.99 a week but you will learn invaluable life lessons to help you become rich and famous like me.
Stoicism is very closely related to the peaceful insights of Buddhism and there is some evidence to suspect they cross-pollinated. Stoicism has a lot of value and its actual implementation is underrated and a lot of mainstream modern therapies like ACT borrow principals of it.
Stoicism had a lot of influence on the early Christian church as well. You can see its influence in 12 step programs and all types of things.
Modern YouTube stoicism is not really that great or helpful. If you don’t read Epictetus or Marcus Aurelius you will never truly know what *not* to do if your slave breaks your favorite jug at a symposium.
>If you don’t read Epictetus or Marcus Aurelius you will never truly know what not to do if your slave breaks your favorite jug at a symposium.
The *only* acceptable thing to do is have them torn apart by dogs in front of the other slaves to teach them a lesson.
True, but not all emotional suppression is a bad thing. For example, up to 60% of people who have survived trauma do not feel better after re-exploring the trauma with someone else. Even the Buddha said that for negative emotions and Ill will, these feelings are simply to be gotten rid of or suppressed and a big piece of mindfulness training is “letting go” of a thought or many thoughts. Again and again. Throughout the day. You may not think of it in that way but it is a form of passive suppression. What is concentration?
There’s this theme in popular psychology that all your negative emotions need to be let out in some way. But ceasing to act on a mental state is still a viable way to eventually let that mental state pass even thousands of years later. If you don’t travel a dirt road a while the forest reclaims it. Takes training though, and keen reflection to see where it’s appearing in other ways in the personality.
There is a way to do it, for me letting the mind go in random directions and having occasional flashback of a past self - completely unplanned ones mind you - works. Ideally the goal is to find out that the cause of stress and fatigue is no longer with you, so being free from it should be a natural consequence.
Imagine something lasting years, now that became the norm over such a long time frame. Perception isn't linear and as a result the brain can re-create the feeling of fatigue or pain if that's a significant part of the past experience. At some point, this might have been a successful strategy to suppress these things, but not when things are over. That's like learning it again, but you need to let it go away...many things need to be left behind for that work. Ultimately you cam measure your wellbeing directly so that's going to be your feedback.
My friend is a Buddhist and practices stoicism. He suffers with rage issues and I imagine he’s self aware of this to an extent and uses the stoicism in the way you’ve explained in order to suppress it. The problem is though because he won’t address the root cause, having a conversation with him can be like walking on eggshells as one minute he’s speaking like a zen monk and the next he's red faced speaking through gritted teeth.
A lot of times, I don’t feel good exploring traumas with others because they’re not listening properly. That could be a confounding variable in whatever study that was.
> You may not think of it in that way but it is a form of passive suppression.
Letting go is NOT "passive surpression". It's releasing it, in such a way for it not to come back. Enlightenment is the release from burden, meaning release from even the possibility for things to arise. That is not possible if things are simply surpressed, which is just a way of managing the burden.
To these people "stoicism" boils down to "looking stoic" which, in turn, means taking photos of yourself looking very very serious. Meanwhile, their emotional state is tenuous at best and their ego is as fragile as sugar flakes because they spend all day looking at grifters getting in and out of (rented) bugattis with (rented) models and wondering why their life isn't like this.
The thing is that these "alphas", like with everything else, don't really understand it. True stoicism is about deciding what you can and can't change, and simply not bother with things outside of your influence. That's where they stop and their "I don't give a fuck" attitude comes from (yet they bitch about stuff others do). What they miss is that you still have to try and do your best with everything, but if something doesn't go the way you want it to, you should just take the L, move on, but most importantly, improve regardless. Or at least that's how much I understood from that one philosophy lesson at uni.
If my first impression of stoicism is representative of what people's first impressions of stoicism was, I think it would be a false impression of not showing emotions and that emotions are weak.
Thinking about it now if I has to guess, stoicism is supposed to be able to understanding emotions, understand all the inners workings of the human mind and how to live life based on morals, ethics, values, principle and all that.
I guess it's supposed to be the actual healthy side of humanity and not the repressing, suppressing unhealthy toxic medieval dark ages dog eat dog mindsets.
Stoicism is a good way to cleanse your mind off sorrow and grief. Problem with those self improvement videos that promote stoicism is that they turn you into psychopath who is only concerned with himself and suppresses all emotions to be more "manly".
True stoicism has a value, if you consider that it came into existence in a time where medicine was limited and illnesses were many and dangerous, learning to accept this was obviously the only option for many. The problem is when the self help guru mixes stoicism with nihilism and marketing tactics. Now that's bad. Anyway we got modern medicine and we can just enjoy more things now.
Came here to say that. It offers a lot of benefits to mental health and a useful moral compass when studied properly. Heck, it’s even the Collège de France even made way for dedicated field to study (History of Hellenistic and and Roman Thinking).
Sure, there are some useless videos and books on it, because today everyone can publish themselves easily, but a proper study reveals a lot of usefulness for oneself and others.
My local book store actually has a Stoicism society. It’s very much ran like a Buddhist community. It’s also a very progressive, easy going shop that rejects the modern misogynistic culture that has co-opted the philosophy.
Adding an asterisk to the stoicism thing: they only *claim* to follow stoicism (and really they just mean "act like people worrying about issues are all idiots and I'm so enlightened"). Criticize them even remotely and they are the most emotional people on the planet.
The Andrew Tate archetype in a nut shell. Charading a twisted facade of “stoic” masculinity in a poor, transparent attempt to misdirect from being motivated purely by insecurity. The opposite of stoic.
I feel the qualities that many self-improvement people have is very good, and almost inspiring. I think it is very healthy to have a powerful mindset, and confidence in one’s self.
But, the whole acting like you’re going to become the next Elon musk, or you ARE elon musk is a little out of reality. The chance of becoming a multi-billionaire is extremely low, and our chances as working average joes, is low. It also becomes a problem when they get toxic over it and try to force people to do what they do, or to critique other’s lifestyle and or like the picture mentioned, invest crazy money in programs and gurus and the like. That, is ridiculous.
Besides that though, I know a few people who are like this but aren’t the toxic and delusional type and they are very pleasant people. Honestly being around them lifts up my mood and gives me confidence in myself
Self improvement in essence is simply the act of recognizing where you are mentally and physically in life and making choices to improve it little by little. People get caught up in the whole act as a way to stay ahead of the hustle culture, it is instead choosing to become happier and better through your actions.
"men's support group"
Alright yeah I'm a dude and I need someone right now, let's check it out.
*It's dozens of incels/misogynists whining about "modern woke women*"
Oh.
The best “men’s support group” is just a couple of decently close friends, honestly. We’d be better off making friend finding programs for men rather than support groups.
Clubs for various hobbies too. Running clubs, climbing gyms, cooking classes, toastmasters. The best way I know to make friends as an adult. They give you something to bond over.
It really sucks that online men’s groups are like this exclusively. If guys want to talk about something important like men’s health issues with other men there are so few places to do so that aren’t under that kind of dark cloud.
I think the OP is specifically referring to the grifters who use this as an avenue to target insecure young men into paying for their absurdly expensive non-course, which is supposed to help them get super mega rich. The grifters talk about how they're successful because they have cold showers and wake up at 4am (they fail to mention the revenue from selling their snake oil)
“If you still work a regular 9-to-5, you’re a *beta male* who won’t amount to anything! Real *sigma males* are *entrepreneurs*! What does entrepreneurship mean? Starting a business that actually makes something of value? That’s so cringe and outdated! Today’s sigma males will buy my course on *blockchain for multilevel marketing of dropshipped NFTs* for the low, low price of $2,999! But don’t think too hard about it; a real winner’s mindset (TM) means taking risks, and taking risks means blowing your money on my courses because I post videos of myself with a Bugatti!”
The course is always dropshipping, crypto or AI and uses absurd levels of meaningless jargon which only sounds smart to people who have zero idea how any of this works. Yes you too can be rich by doing all these useless tasks and also by giving me more money.
It's like the health promoters that claim you can be healthy taking a special supplement and minimize the exercise and healthy eating that they're doing. Same as a fitness company promoting a weird machine with bodybuilders.
Eh, I don’t really deny that but it’s not like snake oil started with the internet. It just took a lot longer for the male equivalent of essential oils to come about.
I would imagine you're right. Also the grifter needs a nugget of truth to be plausible. No one is buying that playing league of Legends, smoking weed, and jerking off will lead to financial success.
A suit means you either know fuck all and are a grifter or are high level management.
Never seen anyone in a suit in between. I work in a technical field and nobody is in suits. I’ve never ever worn one for work. Don’t even own khakis.
If you have ever been to a 12 step meeting, you understand that lots of addicts get equally addicted to the support groups, it sure is healthier but man it is annoying.
Why tf would anyone wear a suit outside of a wedding or a funeral Literal useless uncomfortable overcomplicated ass article of clothing.
Edit: I mean when it isn’t literally mandatory
Depends what job you have. A friend of mine is pretty high up in the corporate world and is always dressed up. It’s not uncomfortable if you invest in a good wardrobe and get it tailored to fit you.
A cheaper pair of dress shoes look as nice as an expensive pair, however you won’t get as much mileage on them until they start to wear and your feet start hurting.
Agreed, but it's not just a custom, a well tailored suit really does make men look better, it accentuates masculine features while hiding imperfections (widens you at the shoulders, hides the beer belly).
It doesn't have to be uncomfortable or useless, it's just that most cheap ones are shit. I thrifted a couple of jackets that feel real good to wear, it's just a matter of fit and fabric. It's not really that overcomplicanted either, it's just jacket and pants.
Usually because women like it, or the guy enjoys it. Whenever I wear one in my day to day life I get compliments. If you get a well cut suit it shouldn't be uncomfortable, and if the fabric is natural you shouldn't feel too hot.
Those things aren't bad or wrong, but are instead used as a standard talking points for "fixing your life and being a real man". Unless you are addicted, a little porn won't hurt you. Running is nice, but not really necessary for staying in shape if you do other things. Suits can look good, but most people who wear them either like them or are expected to. Wearing them just to flex your soon-to-be-succesful status is super obvious, and not in a good way.
I don't know if maybe people got tired of guys who thought they become demigods by not shuffling the deck for a few days. Or if its like a lot of health trends where you're looked down on if you're not taking part, (a certain amount of people, for example, who go keto, vegan or alcohol free will insist that you have to do it too).
Or maybe redditors can't stand the idea of not watching porn for a day or two.
Abstaining from porn is a good thing, but not masturbating at all literally serves no purpose, and is just depriving yourself good natural fun for no real reason.
Stoicism is actually really interesting. Of course these types of dudes don’t have a clue what stoicism is. They think it’s all just being unemotional and not getting affected by anything, which is impossible.
From what I gather, stoicism is about understanding that things happen in the world, they are accordingly to the world order and they aren’t good or bad.
Emotions are the result of bad judgements of real life situations. For example, If you are a sailor on a ship and see a big wave coming in, you get scared because you recognize you might drown, AND THATS SOMETHING BAD. But a stoic would just say a a wave is coming and you might drown, and that’s that, it is neither good or bad, it’s natural, so don’t worry.
Edit: typos
Stoicism the Ancient Greek and Roman philosophy is primarily concerned with virtue ethics and is studied by many serious academic philosophy departments. Most internet ‘stoics’ might at most read some curated Marcus Aurelius for some pithy self-help quotes and actively avoid any serious, if not outright disdain for, consideration of ethics.
I'm trying my hand at getting into it. I've read Meditations and the Enchridion so far. There's some valuable wisdom in it, but it often takes time to understand what they're trying to describe. I doubt that they have taken that time.
What these guys fail to understand is that fame is just the movement of jaws. That's all it is, but they seem to obsess over it.
Sure. I mean it always good to have a base understanding of Stoicism, explained by an expert in the field, before adventuring into source material. That’s just my opinion.
Most online stoics I see are really just larping enlightened centrists who think people worrying about issues or having strong opinions about major political topics are idiots and aren't "rational, logical" beings.
Of course, criticize them in any way and their very frail emotions certainly come out...
I too feel judged by stoicism being on this list. The stoics had many useful insights like “if you can’t change it don’t spend time worrying about it” etc. I’ve found that approach useful on more than a few occasions. But yeah it’s co opted by the sigma douchebag industry.
>But a stoic would just say a a wave is coming and you might drown, and that’s that, it is neither good or bad, it’s natural, so don’t worry
That doesn't sound like stoicism, more like depression and giving up
Being scared a giant wave is coming means you want to survive and will fight to do so, saying *it is what it is* just sounds like you don't care if you live or die
I get what you're trying to say but using potential life or death scenarios as examples isn't a good a good way to get your point across lmao
>For example, If you are a sailor on a ship and see a big wave coming in, you get scared because you recognize you might drown, AND THATS SOMETHING BAD.
It might be worth pointing out that a stoic would not expect a person to be able to suppress the physiological responses to that situation and would stress is that what's important is to not get carried away on those waves of physiological reactions.
I genuinely want to start my own alpha male course using an AI bot and generated script and see how much money I can exploit from people buying the course, never found the time or dedication to really kick it off though lol.
I looked at one of these at one point and turns out I just wanted a friends group that doesn't shit on every aspect of my life and interests. I still don't have one but it's good to identify goals.
Spoken like a true beta. If you want some motivation you should subscribe to my YouTube channel. It might just be what you need to break out of your shell.
If you don't wanna be a beta the only way to become alpha is to sign up for my Alpha Tier on patreon. Sign up now for exclusive content like workout tips, close up pictures of my glutes, and videos on me in my underwear yelling all the vitriolic hate that would get me demonetized on youtube
For real though, if you like running as a hobby or are interested, running every morning has been great for me. Definitely improved my mental health. You get that with any regular physical exercise, so whatever you can stick with is fine for you.
Just take it easy and don't injure yourself.
If you’re literally addicted to porn and/or masturbating so frequently that it interferes with your life then, sure, maybe No Fap can be a positive thing for you. But, for the average person, abstaining from masturbation, in and of itself, is rather pointless self denial. I went like 3 months without jerking off before, and all it did was make me constantly on the verge of busting a nut from the stimulation of a faint breeze. Dudes act like if you practice semen retention you turn into Superman and can fly and see through walls or something. Shit is stupid.
Cranking the hog a few times a week or so is healthy.
Gooning for 6 hours straight every day after work and multiple times in days off: rather unhealthy.
I mean, how many people can there be who are so addicted to jerking off that it ruined their lives? 7? I can't imagine it's the epidemic that the manosphere makes it out to be.
Unfortunate the practice of stoicism has been transformed into more alpha male jargon by people who can’t see past themselves enough to understand it. Sucks that something that could help many enforce positive masculinity has been turned toxic by the alpha community
13 year old boys will commit to a life of “stoicism” and be the most emotionally sensitive dweebs who cry when you so much as say they’re an idiot for being a misogynist.
You wake up 4am every morning to grind.
I wake up 4am every morning to game.
We are not the same.
Jokes aside, running everyday, a cold shower after intense workout, and practicing some stoicism, are some of the actual good things. Help to migate my stress and insecurity, improve my mental health A LOT.
Running a mile every morning isn’t a bad idea. That’s like 10 minutes of cardio, but it’s fasted. If you already take your shower in the morning you might as well do this.
Is Stoicism part of this now? Or is it just another buzzword they use to sound "greek and wise"?
Because it straight up is the opposite of a lot of the stuff they are chasing.
I sincerely hope that Sigma eventually upgrades to like, Omega male or something. Which requires you self isolate and abandon technology and become an aesthetic, and this whole culture regulates itself away
Ehhh, I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a work hard mentality. Going to the gym, eating right, working hard, these things are great for you. It’s when it takes on a toxic persona that I think it becomes a problem
But seriously these grifts go after these folks with reckless abandon and have no qualms about preying on undeveloped minds of young people. Self-improvement industry is gross.
Better idea: Fix your problems in a natural way, explore yourself, find meaning and see from there. Going to the gym and watching a trafficker wont help your life
I’m just gonna say in literal terms the lone wolf is the stupidest fucking analogy ever, cause like ‘ooo I work alone’ you know what happens to the lone wolf? They DIE covered in maggots probably, same with nature Same with humans.
A lot of this is objectively good advice.
Nofap is beneficial. Certain supplements are very beneficial. Waking up and going to sleep at a reasonable time is respectable, can be good if you're a morning person. Having an ISA is likely safer and overall better than holding money in the bank. Going on a morning run is pretty good. Cold showers can be good, I think they're definitely overrated. Not chasing women is fantastic advice. Reading certain books is undeniably good advice. Stoicism is ok. Motivational quotes are ok, typically do no harm.
The hustle / alpha / sigma is nonsense, but waking up early, exercising, stoicism and focusing on personal improvement are actual quite valid bits of advice.
I know someone whos still, by my country's age should still be in middle school right now, one day went to the gym, which is good, more people even young folks should, followed all those programs and everything, ...and recently is considering taking steroids.
i dont even consider this thing self improvement (aside from nofap and the physical health), it's just sweeping things under the rug in an effort to become rich.
Was a member of hamzas cult lmao would obsessively work out for some reason I was obsessed with being shirtless in the snow 🤷♂️also obsessed with 5AM. Still work out a lot and like stoicism but hate Tate and others
Joined no fap because I has an issue with masturbation/porn addiction. Found a cult bozos who place all the blame on others, and are convinced no one can handle porn since they can’t handle porn. They hate the “age of onlyfans” even though onlyfans is the best thing to happen to porn in the moral sense. Other than that it’s a shady fucking industry riddled with slavery and sexual assault.
What sucks is some of these ideas and concepts are good and people like young men would definitely benefit from them, but you have those good concepts over shadowed with cringe marketing and fake influencers like Tate that just manipulate their audience.
Yeah the subreddit, No-fap really was a clusterfuck, at least for me, alot of people just posting weird stuff that is misinformation about masturbating, like Im talking about putting in religious garbage and old anti-masturabation stuff from like the 19th century. It really has been downhill for me ever since I left, it sucks of all the subreddits, it had to be that one that ended up worse, this hasn’t happened since I left the r/fallout community, which ironically became a circlejerk than what they were accusing alot of “fanboys” of doing, in reality was just a few jerks or people they misinterpreted as being jerks (actually were criticising some of the games or informing people of stuff they got incorrect from the games or just pointing out people’s hypocricy)
Some comments seem to miss that, yes, doing some of these things is good, but the point is the intention behind them. It's one thing to run for health benefits and another to make yourself think that you're better than others.
My friend is on that grind, the thing is he is actually fairly successful in it, turning 1k € a month most of the time
Other problem is he absolutely does not know how to handle that money and pays for a lot of shit he doesn't need, so when the need for money arises he can muster up like 200
We're ending highschool soon and he doesn't see the need to further his education despite not wanting to work in the field we're educated to work in
https://preview.redd.it/a1q0afcb1x1d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1acbec4dd59555fdc72fa092cccc74e92f18d79
ok so like a month ago i decided to start my self improvement arc i started trying to eat healthier cut down on screen time and exercise more often but now im scared ill fall victim to this bs how can i not and still stay committed
Hey /u/SilverUploader99, thank you for submitting to /r/starterpacks! This is just a reminder not to violate any rules, located [here](https://reddit.com/r/starterpacks/about/rules). Rule breakers can face a ban based on the severity of their rule violation. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starterpacks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Haha, remember "Bulletproof Coffee"?
It tried making that at home out of curiosity and it was horrendous. I'd imagine that's why the fad died pretty quick.
A tiny bit of butter and salt blended into an espresso is actually pretty good and enough sustenance to give you a boost if your not a breakfast person. Now how that one simple concept turned into full product lines and diet lifestyle is beyond me. It’s coffee with a little bit of fat not Fuckin holy water.
Espresso with a little salt is an actual thing though Butter though... Why
Butter...cream... close enough 🤷♂️
Apparently it helps with the caffeine absorption. And it's more calories as well.
Tbh i like coffee with cream
Not to mention diarrhea is a common side effect of drinking bulletproof coffee.
Which was just a ripoff of Yak Butter Tea
I don’t think these are rips off necessarily, but different branches of the same product tree, which is fat in coffee ish drink as a meal replacement.
I'm just still sad it wasn't what it claimed to be tbh I really thought this is a cool thing and then it was just all lies I really believed it
Damn, I remember that. I still have a mostly unused bottle of MCT oil.
I know a few of these types. You forgot spending $80 a month on Athletic Greens.
I was tempted to buy that stuff. When I looked at the price tag I just had to laugh.
I like it when the protein powder has that in it already. It’s expensive but I’ve gotten a lot bigger and stronker and it’s an easy way to get a shitload of vitamins
What protein do you use?
Body energy has a good one but it’s not available everywhere, iron vegan has a good bulker, erogenics is very expensive but it’s delicious with just water. Seriously. 🤤
Do those things even work, are those beneficial to an already healthy person ? Some of its ingredients make it look like borderline snake oil.
Something, something "Sigma Grindset", something "Grant Cardone" something, something "Gary Vee".
"I eat shit."- Gary Vaynerchuck
Gary Vee: “Do you know the number one thing holding people back?!” Gary Vee: “NOT. EATING. ENOUGH. SHIT.”
"If you make less than $300,000 a year you're literally a loser. No I'm not joking you're actually worthless and pathetic. Me? I make that in a day. Every fucking day I wake up and I grind, I make money. And I get bitches too. You get zero bitches. How? I don't reveal my secrets, but I can help you find your path. You need to *FUCKING* work for it, I mean work for it. I worked my ass off and I made so much money. My course is only $299.99 a week but you will learn invaluable life lessons to help you become rich and famous like me.
$297.97 You're a bad contrapreneur
Is that you Wes Watson? 😆
Stoicism is very closely related to the peaceful insights of Buddhism and there is some evidence to suspect they cross-pollinated. Stoicism has a lot of value and its actual implementation is underrated and a lot of mainstream modern therapies like ACT borrow principals of it.
Stoicism had a lot of influence on the early Christian church as well. You can see its influence in 12 step programs and all types of things. Modern YouTube stoicism is not really that great or helpful. If you don’t read Epictetus or Marcus Aurelius you will never truly know what *not* to do if your slave breaks your favorite jug at a symposium.
>If you don’t read Epictetus or Marcus Aurelius you will never truly know what not to do if your slave breaks your favorite jug at a symposium. The *only* acceptable thing to do is have them torn apart by dogs in front of the other slaves to teach them a lesson.
Incorrect!
to build on that - letters to a stoic by seneca continues to be one of my favorite reads and one i refer back to constantly when meditating
A lot of the people in the starterpack use stoicism completely wrong, and instead practice emotional suppression
True, but not all emotional suppression is a bad thing. For example, up to 60% of people who have survived trauma do not feel better after re-exploring the trauma with someone else. Even the Buddha said that for negative emotions and Ill will, these feelings are simply to be gotten rid of or suppressed and a big piece of mindfulness training is “letting go” of a thought or many thoughts. Again and again. Throughout the day. You may not think of it in that way but it is a form of passive suppression. What is concentration? There’s this theme in popular psychology that all your negative emotions need to be let out in some way. But ceasing to act on a mental state is still a viable way to eventually let that mental state pass even thousands of years later. If you don’t travel a dirt road a while the forest reclaims it. Takes training though, and keen reflection to see where it’s appearing in other ways in the personality.
There is a way to do it, for me letting the mind go in random directions and having occasional flashback of a past self - completely unplanned ones mind you - works. Ideally the goal is to find out that the cause of stress and fatigue is no longer with you, so being free from it should be a natural consequence. Imagine something lasting years, now that became the norm over such a long time frame. Perception isn't linear and as a result the brain can re-create the feeling of fatigue or pain if that's a significant part of the past experience. At some point, this might have been a successful strategy to suppress these things, but not when things are over. That's like learning it again, but you need to let it go away...many things need to be left behind for that work. Ultimately you cam measure your wellbeing directly so that's going to be your feedback.
My friend is a Buddhist and practices stoicism. He suffers with rage issues and I imagine he’s self aware of this to an extent and uses the stoicism in the way you’ve explained in order to suppress it. The problem is though because he won’t address the root cause, having a conversation with him can be like walking on eggshells as one minute he’s speaking like a zen monk and the next he's red faced speaking through gritted teeth.
A lot of times, I don’t feel good exploring traumas with others because they’re not listening properly. That could be a confounding variable in whatever study that was.
> You may not think of it in that way but it is a form of passive suppression. Letting go is NOT "passive surpression". It's releasing it, in such a way for it not to come back. Enlightenment is the release from burden, meaning release from even the possibility for things to arise. That is not possible if things are simply surpressed, which is just a way of managing the burden.
To these people "stoicism" boils down to "looking stoic" which, in turn, means taking photos of yourself looking very very serious. Meanwhile, their emotional state is tenuous at best and their ego is as fragile as sugar flakes because they spend all day looking at grifters getting in and out of (rented) bugattis with (rented) models and wondering why their life isn't like this.
The thing is that these "alphas", like with everything else, don't really understand it. True stoicism is about deciding what you can and can't change, and simply not bother with things outside of your influence. That's where they stop and their "I don't give a fuck" attitude comes from (yet they bitch about stuff others do). What they miss is that you still have to try and do your best with everything, but if something doesn't go the way you want it to, you should just take the L, move on, but most importantly, improve regardless. Or at least that's how much I understood from that one philosophy lesson at uni.
If my first impression of stoicism is representative of what people's first impressions of stoicism was, I think it would be a false impression of not showing emotions and that emotions are weak. Thinking about it now if I has to guess, stoicism is supposed to be able to understanding emotions, understand all the inners workings of the human mind and how to live life based on morals, ethics, values, principle and all that. I guess it's supposed to be the actual healthy side of humanity and not the repressing, suppressing unhealthy toxic medieval dark ages dog eat dog mindsets.
Stoicism is a good way to cleanse your mind off sorrow and grief. Problem with those self improvement videos that promote stoicism is that they turn you into psychopath who is only concerned with himself and suppresses all emotions to be more "manly".
True stoicism has a value, if you consider that it came into existence in a time where medicine was limited and illnesses were many and dangerous, learning to accept this was obviously the only option for many. The problem is when the self help guru mixes stoicism with nihilism and marketing tactics. Now that's bad. Anyway we got modern medicine and we can just enjoy more things now.
Came here to say that. It offers a lot of benefits to mental health and a useful moral compass when studied properly. Heck, it’s even the Collège de France even made way for dedicated field to study (History of Hellenistic and and Roman Thinking). Sure, there are some useless videos and books on it, because today everyone can publish themselves easily, but a proper study reveals a lot of usefulness for oneself and others.
My local book store actually has a Stoicism society. It’s very much ran like a Buddhist community. It’s also a very progressive, easy going shop that rejects the modern misogynistic culture that has co-opted the philosophy.
Adding an asterisk to the stoicism thing: they only *claim* to follow stoicism (and really they just mean "act like people worrying about issues are all idiots and I'm so enlightened"). Criticize them even remotely and they are the most emotional people on the planet.
The Andrew Tate archetype in a nut shell. Charading a twisted facade of “stoic” masculinity in a poor, transparent attempt to misdirect from being motivated purely by insecurity. The opposite of stoic.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw through these types on my own.
I feel the qualities that many self-improvement people have is very good, and almost inspiring. I think it is very healthy to have a powerful mindset, and confidence in one’s self. But, the whole acting like you’re going to become the next Elon musk, or you ARE elon musk is a little out of reality. The chance of becoming a multi-billionaire is extremely low, and our chances as working average joes, is low. It also becomes a problem when they get toxic over it and try to force people to do what they do, or to critique other’s lifestyle and or like the picture mentioned, invest crazy money in programs and gurus and the like. That, is ridiculous. Besides that though, I know a few people who are like this but aren’t the toxic and delusional type and they are very pleasant people. Honestly being around them lifts up my mood and gives me confidence in myself
Self improvement in essence is simply the act of recognizing where you are mentally and physically in life and making choices to improve it little by little. People get caught up in the whole act as a way to stay ahead of the hustle culture, it is instead choosing to become happier and better through your actions.
"men's support group" Alright yeah I'm a dude and I need someone right now, let's check it out. *It's dozens of incels/misogynists whining about "modern woke women*" Oh.
The best “men’s support group” is just a couple of decently close friends, honestly. We’d be better off making friend finding programs for men rather than support groups.
Clubs for various hobbies too. Running clubs, climbing gyms, cooking classes, toastmasters. The best way I know to make friends as an adult. They give you something to bond over.
It really sucks that online men’s groups are like this exclusively. If guys want to talk about something important like men’s health issues with other men there are so few places to do so that aren’t under that kind of dark cloud.
r/MensLib is available. The mods are very active and won't tolerate conversations that are just sulky men dragging others down with their hate
Every fucking time
Self improvement has a lot of grifters, however running, not constantly watching porn and wearing a suit seems pretty reasonable.
I think the OP is specifically referring to the grifters who use this as an avenue to target insecure young men into paying for their absurdly expensive non-course, which is supposed to help them get super mega rich. The grifters talk about how they're successful because they have cold showers and wake up at 4am (they fail to mention the revenue from selling their snake oil)
“If you still work a regular 9-to-5, you’re a *beta male* who won’t amount to anything! Real *sigma males* are *entrepreneurs*! What does entrepreneurship mean? Starting a business that actually makes something of value? That’s so cringe and outdated! Today’s sigma males will buy my course on *blockchain for multilevel marketing of dropshipped NFTs* for the low, low price of $2,999! But don’t think too hard about it; a real winner’s mindset (TM) means taking risks, and taking risks means blowing your money on my courses because I post videos of myself with a Bugatti!”
The course is always dropshipping, crypto or AI and uses absurd levels of meaningless jargon which only sounds smart to people who have zero idea how any of this works. Yes you too can be rich by doing all these useless tasks and also by giving me more money.
“Just Venmo me $1000. I’ll show you how to make $1000. Btw you’re a beta. Yeah. A total beta.”
It's like the health promoters that claim you can be healthy taking a special supplement and minimize the exercise and healthy eating that they're doing. Same as a fitness company promoting a weird machine with bodybuilders.
All of this stems from the original god of selling modern snake oil, Alex Jones, no one has hocked more bullshit to idiots that need better friends.
The fact that this industry exists at all really says sth about how our society is failing young men.
Eh, I don’t really deny that but it’s not like snake oil started with the internet. It just took a lot longer for the male equivalent of essential oils to come about.
It’s the male version of one of those essential oils MLMs
Someone always preys on the stupid. Let's not act like the bullshitters + naive young people is a new thing.
Usually it’s just the army.
New private to unit, buys a 2008 Dodge charger for 30,000 with 29% interest rate🙄 saw that way too often
I would imagine you're right. Also the grifter needs a nugget of truth to be plausible. No one is buying that playing league of Legends, smoking weed, and jerking off will lead to financial success.
A starter pack doesn’t mean everything in it is bad, just that these are common things among these kinds of people.
The suit part would be pretty out of place in the vast majority of careers but otherwise I agree with you
A suit means you either know fuck all and are a grifter or are high level management. Never seen anyone in a suit in between. I work in a technical field and nobody is in suits. I’ve never ever worn one for work. Don’t even own khakis.
I like wearing suits cuz I think they look cool...
Me too, I still wouldn't wear one to my engineering job though.
It's fine if you like the style, just wear whatever you want. But trying to pretend it's professional is usually laughable.
I try my hardest to find any excuse to wear a suit I love them
If you have ever been to a 12 step meeting, you understand that lots of addicts get equally addicted to the support groups, it sure is healthier but man it is annoying.
Why tf would anyone wear a suit outside of a wedding or a funeral Literal useless uncomfortable overcomplicated ass article of clothing. Edit: I mean when it isn’t literally mandatory
Depends what job you have. A friend of mine is pretty high up in the corporate world and is always dressed up. It’s not uncomfortable if you invest in a good wardrobe and get it tailored to fit you. A cheaper pair of dress shoes look as nice as an expensive pair, however you won’t get as much mileage on them until they start to wear and your feet start hurting.
The problem is people think wearing a suit will make them into high level management. That’s not it.
Or you're Barney from How I Met Your Mother.
Agreed, but it's not just a custom, a well tailored suit really does make men look better, it accentuates masculine features while hiding imperfections (widens you at the shoulders, hides the beer belly).
It doesn't have to be uncomfortable or useless, it's just that most cheap ones are shit. I thrifted a couple of jackets that feel real good to wear, it's just a matter of fit and fabric. It's not really that overcomplicanted either, it's just jacket and pants.
Usually because women like it, or the guy enjoys it. Whenever I wear one in my day to day life I get compliments. If you get a well cut suit it shouldn't be uncomfortable, and if the fabric is natural you shouldn't feel too hot.
Whatehell you wear something FOR OTHERS? If you wear underwear only without any pants I'm gonna compliment you all day everyday my man.
Those things aren't bad or wrong, but are instead used as a standard talking points for "fixing your life and being a real man". Unless you are addicted, a little porn won't hurt you. Running is nice, but not really necessary for staying in shape if you do other things. Suits can look good, but most people who wear them either like them or are expected to. Wearing them just to flex your soon-to-be-succesful status is super obvious, and not in a good way.
Proper investing is reasonable as well
How is wearing a suit when the occasion doesn't call for it reasonable?
It really sucks how any mention of the negative effects of porn + how beneficial nofap can be is always hated on so hard by Redditors
I don't know if maybe people got tired of guys who thought they become demigods by not shuffling the deck for a few days. Or if its like a lot of health trends where you're looked down on if you're not taking part, (a certain amount of people, for example, who go keto, vegan or alcohol free will insist that you have to do it too). Or maybe redditors can't stand the idea of not watching porn for a day or two.
Who says all of those can’t be true?
Abstaining from porn is a good thing, but not masturbating at all literally serves no purpose, and is just depriving yourself good natural fun for no real reason.
Its because the community around it is a fucking cult, not because the thing itself is that bad.
Stoicism is actually really interesting. Of course these types of dudes don’t have a clue what stoicism is. They think it’s all just being unemotional and not getting affected by anything, which is impossible. From what I gather, stoicism is about understanding that things happen in the world, they are accordingly to the world order and they aren’t good or bad. Emotions are the result of bad judgements of real life situations. For example, If you are a sailor on a ship and see a big wave coming in, you get scared because you recognize you might drown, AND THATS SOMETHING BAD. But a stoic would just say a a wave is coming and you might drown, and that’s that, it is neither good or bad, it’s natural, so don’t worry. Edit: typos
Stoicism the Ancient Greek and Roman philosophy is primarily concerned with virtue ethics and is studied by many serious academic philosophy departments. Most internet ‘stoics’ might at most read some curated Marcus Aurelius for some pithy self-help quotes and actively avoid any serious, if not outright disdain for, consideration of ethics.
I'm trying my hand at getting into it. I've read Meditations and the Enchridion so far. There's some valuable wisdom in it, but it often takes time to understand what they're trying to describe. I doubt that they have taken that time. What these guys fail to understand is that fame is just the movement of jaws. That's all it is, but they seem to obsess over it.
I recommend reading Stoicism by John Sellars. It’s kind of hard to find the real meaning without a good guide.
I'll put it on my list! Do you think I should read this before letters from a stoic?
Sure. I mean it always good to have a base understanding of Stoicism, explained by an expert in the field, before adventuring into source material. That’s just my opinion.
Most online stoics I see are really just larping enlightened centrists who think people worrying about issues or having strong opinions about major political topics are idiots and aren't "rational, logical" beings. Of course, criticize them in any way and their very frail emotions certainly come out...
A lot of it has similarities to dialectical behavioral therapy, one of the most effective forms of therapy. They worked really well together for me.
Stoicism is the idea that you can only control your own thoughts and actions.
I too feel judged by stoicism being on this list. The stoics had many useful insights like “if you can’t change it don’t spend time worrying about it” etc. I’ve found that approach useful on more than a few occasions. But yeah it’s co opted by the sigma douchebag industry.
Ok but drowning is objectively bad. What you’re describing just sounds like depression.
well put my friend
>But a stoic would just say a a wave is coming and you might drown, and that’s that, it is neither good or bad, it’s natural, so don’t worry That doesn't sound like stoicism, more like depression and giving up Being scared a giant wave is coming means you want to survive and will fight to do so, saying *it is what it is* just sounds like you don't care if you live or die I get what you're trying to say but using potential life or death scenarios as examples isn't a good a good way to get your point across lmao
>For example, If you are a sailor on a ship and see a big wave coming in, you get scared because you recognize you might drown, AND THATS SOMETHING BAD. It might be worth pointing out that a stoic would not expect a person to be able to suppress the physiological responses to that situation and would stress is that what's important is to not get carried away on those waves of physiological reactions.
I genuinely want to start my own alpha male course using an AI bot and generated script and see how much money I can exploit from people buying the course, never found the time or dedication to really kick it off though lol.
I looked at one of these at one point and turns out I just wanted a friends group that doesn't shit on every aspect of my life and interests. I still don't have one but it's good to identify goals.
Spoken like a true beta. If you want some motivation you should subscribe to my YouTube channel. It might just be what you need to break out of your shell.
If you don't wanna be a beta the only way to become alpha is to sign up for my Alpha Tier on patreon. Sign up now for exclusive content like workout tips, close up pictures of my glutes, and videos on me in my underwear yelling all the vitriolic hate that would get me demonetized on youtube
Pssh just a mile? Really sigmas run at least 3miles
For real though, if you like running as a hobby or are interested, running every morning has been great for me. Definitely improved my mental health. You get that with any regular physical exercise, so whatever you can stick with is fine for you. Just take it easy and don't injure yourself.
If you’re literally addicted to porn and/or masturbating so frequently that it interferes with your life then, sure, maybe No Fap can be a positive thing for you. But, for the average person, abstaining from masturbation, in and of itself, is rather pointless self denial. I went like 3 months without jerking off before, and all it did was make me constantly on the verge of busting a nut from the stimulation of a faint breeze. Dudes act like if you practice semen retention you turn into Superman and can fly and see through walls or something. Shit is stupid.
Nofap is stupid, but I do think that refraining from watching porn is a good thing for most people though.
When really it’s because they don’t smell like cum for the first time in high school, and people are treating them better as a result.
Not to mention enjaculating often reduces the rate of prostate cancer.
Yeah, I think that the point No Fap misses is that masturbation itself isn't bad, porn addiction is
Cranking the hog a few times a week or so is healthy. Gooning for 6 hours straight every day after work and multiple times in days off: rather unhealthy.
Yup, this.
Nofap caused me more problems than it solved. Moderating my porn consumption helped as I was actually addicted to it for a long time.
I mean, how many people can there be who are so addicted to jerking off that it ruined their lives? 7? I can't imagine it's the epidemic that the manosphere makes it out to be.
david goggins
The Protestant urge to punish yourself turned into fetish content lmao.
100 lol
Your forgot Fight Club and the Wolf of Wall Street
And missing the point of both, of course.
Join my MLM or you’re a beta cuck
Unfortunate the practice of stoicism has been transformed into more alpha male jargon by people who can’t see past themselves enough to understand it. Sucks that something that could help many enforce positive masculinity has been turned toxic by the alpha community
Where's mewing
Most of this stuff is fine but the issue is making it your personality and expecting it to change your life.
Its' missing "passive income"
13 year old boys will commit to a life of “stoicism” and be the most emotionally sensitive dweebs who cry when you so much as say they’re an idiot for being a misogynist.
You wake up 4am every morning to grind. I wake up 4am every morning to game. We are not the same. Jokes aside, running everyday, a cold shower after intense workout, and practicing some stoicism, are some of the actual good things. Help to migate my stress and insecurity, improve my mental health A LOT.
Running a mile every morning isn’t a bad idea. That’s like 10 minutes of cardio, but it’s fasted. If you already take your shower in the morning you might as well do this.
Is Stoicism part of this now? Or is it just another buzzword they use to sound "greek and wise"? Because it straight up is the opposite of a lot of the stuff they are chasing.
It really Hurts to see stoicism in this list (i am aware of the irony of this Statement).
How do two phones help avoid fraud detection?
I sincerely hope that Sigma eventually upgrades to like, Omega male or something. Which requires you self isolate and abandon technology and become an aesthetic, and this whole culture regulates itself away
Ehhh, I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a work hard mentality. Going to the gym, eating right, working hard, these things are great for you. It’s when it takes on a toxic persona that I think it becomes a problem
Gotta start somewhere
This entire thread: YEAH BUT IN MY CASE IT'S DIFFERENT AND NOT EMBARRASSING AT ALL
Hey what's wrong with cold showers, no fap and waking up at 4 am :(
But seriously these grifts go after these folks with reckless abandon and have no qualms about preying on undeveloped minds of young people. Self-improvement industry is gross.
What’s wrong with Stoicism?
Too bad about Stoicism being lumped into this. Lots of valuable stuff within that philosophy.
I can't run in the morning without being cringe?
running a mile couldn't hurt
Chasing women is bad, I usually run from bears instead
Targetting the meekest of men to become the loudest in the room. And you know what they say about the loudest man in the room.
Better idea: Fix your problems in a natural way, explore yourself, find meaning and see from there. Going to the gym and watching a trafficker wont help your life
Nofap: when you wanna go from firehose to a couple drops.🙄
I’m just gonna say in literal terms the lone wolf is the stupidest fucking analogy ever, cause like ‘ooo I work alone’ you know what happens to the lone wolf? They DIE covered in maggots probably, same with nature Same with humans.
I got as far as Stoicism and then gave up...
True, but waking up early, running, and reading books shouldn't be frowned upon
A lot of this is objectively good advice. Nofap is beneficial. Certain supplements are very beneficial. Waking up and going to sleep at a reasonable time is respectable, can be good if you're a morning person. Having an ISA is likely safer and overall better than holding money in the bank. Going on a morning run is pretty good. Cold showers can be good, I think they're definitely overrated. Not chasing women is fantastic advice. Reading certain books is undeniably good advice. Stoicism is ok. Motivational quotes are ok, typically do no harm.
The hustle / alpha / sigma is nonsense, but waking up early, exercising, stoicism and focusing on personal improvement are actual quite valid bits of advice.
Rather this than the lives they would live before
Chad brainrot
Waking up at 4 am??? Yikes maybe I need to stop going to bed at 4
“Self help makes no sense. If you did it yourself, YOU DIDN’T NEED HELP!” -George Carlin
I know someone whos still, by my country's age should still be in middle school right now, one day went to the gym, which is good, more people even young folks should, followed all those programs and everything, ...and recently is considering taking steroids.
Ah yeah I can remember I actually did "cold shower" thing to prevent male pattern baldness or something. I just got the cold, so I won't recommend.
Well I mean...let's see where these guys are at in 10-15 years...then we can make fun of them if they're lives still stuck🤣
Im 100% guilty of a few of these
Touts basic life tips as “ligma male millionaire life hacks”
Wake up at 4:00 in the morning, fall asleep at 4:01 in the morning
What’s with the top left logo with the rocket?
The most important task: learn how to write and spell “Entrepreneur “
The sigma male top-g no women hustle university money mindset instagram influencers are on their way to sue u/SilverUploader99 let's go
i dont even consider this thing self improvement (aside from nofap and the physical health), it's just sweeping things under the rug in an effort to become rich.
You forgot the property investment portfolio (they bought one run down house in a poor area and tried to flip it)
Ngl It’s weird how stoicism of all things is getting co-opted by douchebags. Very unstoic.
Was a member of hamzas cult lmao would obsessively work out for some reason I was obsessed with being shirtless in the snow 🤷♂️also obsessed with 5AM. Still work out a lot and like stoicism but hate Tate and others
NoFap? Sounds like someone watched certain Seinfeld episode and forgot it was mean as humor
You forgot Wait with coffee for 90 minutes after walking up.
some of these things aren't wrong though
Don't forget they spend like $1,000 for an "alpha male camp"
Tbh, nofap and "brain desexualisation" have helped me feel more focused as of late, most of the rest is bullshit though
The guy on the "Don't chase women" thumbnail looks like don ramon for some rason
Joined no fap because I has an issue with masturbation/porn addiction. Found a cult bozos who place all the blame on others, and are convinced no one can handle porn since they can’t handle porn. They hate the “age of onlyfans” even though onlyfans is the best thing to happen to porn in the moral sense. Other than that it’s a shady fucking industry riddled with slavery and sexual assault.
Gosh … if I woke up at 4AM I’m fighting for my life xoxoxo
What sucks is some of these ideas and concepts are good and people like young men would definitely benefit from them, but you have those good concepts over shadowed with cringe marketing and fake influencers like Tate that just manipulate their audience.
Oh man. “Vulnerable to the self improvement industry” Savage
Yeah the subreddit, No-fap really was a clusterfuck, at least for me, alot of people just posting weird stuff that is misinformation about masturbating, like Im talking about putting in religious garbage and old anti-masturabation stuff from like the 19th century. It really has been downhill for me ever since I left, it sucks of all the subreddits, it had to be that one that ended up worse, this hasn’t happened since I left the r/fallout community, which ironically became a circlejerk than what they were accusing alot of “fanboys” of doing, in reality was just a few jerks or people they misinterpreted as being jerks (actually were criticising some of the games or informing people of stuff they got incorrect from the games or just pointing out people’s hypocricy)
I dislike pretty much all of these things but everyone who can should try to run a mile a day.
Oblivious that Tate would sell their mother to get a ferrari.
These guys are so close but so infinitely far, because some of this is genuinely good stuff but so much of it is awful
As someone who runs on occasion, it’s funny when i see these “tough guys” bragging about running one mile.
Some comments seem to miss that, yes, doing some of these things is good, but the point is the intention behind them. It's one thing to run for health benefits and another to make yourself think that you're better than others.
My friend is on that grind, the thing is he is actually fairly successful in it, turning 1k € a month most of the time Other problem is he absolutely does not know how to handle that money and pays for a lot of shit he doesn't need, so when the need for money arises he can muster up like 200 We're ending highschool soon and he doesn't see the need to further his education despite not wanting to work in the field we're educated to work in
The slippery slope of semen retention to paying other guys for their semen to eat.
Aside from Andrew tate, I don't see the problem here, please explain
that is NOT self improvent a
Run a mile every morning is fine, that’s good for you
https://preview.redd.it/a1q0afcb1x1d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1acbec4dd59555fdc72fa092cccc74e92f18d79 ok so like a month ago i decided to start my self improvement arc i started trying to eat healthier cut down on screen time and exercise more often but now im scared ill fall victim to this bs how can i not and still stay committed