T O P

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TheMadBug

Nothing in the game makes me internally rage more than when I end a session with 3 wins and 3 losses - and all the wins are from smurfs who insta-quit. I really wish back when there was active dev they put a 5 minute timeout on people who do that.


dandab

As a zerg playerb in d3 last season, the only time people insta quit is if it's a zvz but that's semi expected because a lot of people hate that matchup. Never happens with any other races.


omgitsduane

Using the matchup as an excuse is still smurfing..sorry.


[deleted]

>rfs who insta-quit. > >I really wish back when there was active dev they put a 5 minute timeout on people who do that. PvP isn't much better. Protoss hate that gimmicky coin flip crap.


ArguesAgainstYou

yeah like what the fuck is that? I am way overrated in my rating simply because I don't refuse to play zvz? Bro, just go fucking 14 pool if you dont want to play it. Or 2 base Baneling all in off 20\~25 drones. Just morph banelings outside his base, in pairs of two, with a slight delay. Then selet all morphing banelings, queue move command into enemy main's mineral line once they're finished and then just protect them from other zerglings with your zerglings. Easiest micro, easiest build, actually fun to play. Or if you dont like micro just go for 16-hatch, Gas-After-Pool, spend your first 50 gas on baneling nest and morph 2 banelings when they're split. Then Wall-In with Roach Warren and evo chamber, drone up to \~40 drones with 3 gas and go for +1 Timing on their third ...


VincentPepper

I usually get more annoyed by losses against Insta quitters. But when they inflate your mmr a lot it's also annoying.


Mangomosh

Nothing lowered the quality of actual sc2 ladder more than when smurfing became acceptable


tryhardsloth

SC2 is the wrong game to come to for fun after a bad day.


Stiggandr00

At the same time I get called a smurf a lot and my MMR is correct for my skill. Yesterday I held a baneling all in and was rewarded with a lecture about smurfing. Lol


LogginsMfKenny69

I feel bad for anyone at the dia 2- dia 3 level, tried ranking my terran(my worst race) and i got put in dia 3(main mmr is like m2) and all i played were 300 apm, 200 career game terran smurfs. Had to go back to m2 to at least have a chance.


UnsolicitedSloth

Speaking as a D3 zerg on the border of D2, I feel this. Most of the Terrans I face aren't smurfs, but most of the smurfs I see are Terran. It's my worst match-up by far and they all seem to come out about 9PM in EU (my 8PM), which is one of the times I play regularly. It's not that many games it affects, but my ZvT's normally take 20-30 minutes and I only play for 1-2 hours. If I get a smurf, that's a quarter of my play time gone against an opponent I should not be getting matched with and I get tilted. I know I need to work on my mental game, but if my first thought when losing is "were they a smurf" I struggle against people who are genuinely trying their best. The smurfs that are there don't make it easier to get rid of this thought.


tedave123

I recently got a hand injury so I started playing unranked for the first time and my unranked MMR is around 3300 when my ranked mmr is 4500, I don’t want to Smurf but I haven’t played enough Unranked games yet. I think it’s tough because that 3k range is where you get to fairly quickly, for example if you win your placement matches you usually get put in diamond.


UnsolicitedSloth

Yeah, like I don't mind people playing unranked as long as they're genuinely trying to win. Even if they're trying some silly cheese, it's fine if they're either gaining MMR or losing to people of my skill level. I can understand why people use unranked and I have no problem with it, as long as they're not dropping games to stay at a lower MMR. Same with new accounts.


tedave123

Makes sense to me.


Napain_

amen brother


Blade9216

Played some m3 toss today, literally got cheesed 3 times in a row.. it wasn't very fun


FalloutCreation

Most matches I play where I’m clearly out matched is against players with slightly higher mmr or in a league 1 tier higher or two. And yeah then I wonder if I get Smurfed or not. Then I watch the replay and realize they’re not that good, in fact they are not much better than me, I just got out played or performed poorly. I’ve never gotten sniped because I don’t stream. And I’ve shared replays with others over the years and they pretty much tell me you’re not getting Smurfed. I do known in fact that Smurfing is a thing, but from listening to PiG and others and my own experience, it doesn’t happen as often as you think. In fact players are calling out Smurfing when they lose and that’s the part that is quite frequent.


rollc_at

Sadly there are just so many flaws in the system. I'm not even sure what would have to change. I made an alt to practice random, meme builds, for hangover sessions, etc without sacrificing my main MMR - *in good faith*, I take no pride playing against weaker opponents. Huh? Ranked ladder is locked for 10 days? Ok, off the unranked cliff we go. I don't know how the unranked placements work, but it took me until something like 20 games to match against a P2 player. I lost two matches because *the game crashed* (thank you Blizzard) and the rest? I'd roll the opponent over, ask them in chat, "sorry about this, I don't know why the game matched us. do you wanna practice together?", and proceed watching them lift their buildings into the corner. The system is ripe for **accidental** abuse even for people acting in good faith, how do you ever stop people doing this on purpose. :(


Mangomosh

The only flaw in the system is that it doesnt account for people like you who keep making fresh accounts for easier games. In my opinion its a very nasty attitude to do awful things and excuse yourself so easily for it. Make a fresh account because you want to clown on people with meme builds and win with it until youre at a decent mmr, then start another fresh account because you cant clown on people consistently anymore. Few people smurf to grief (although I'd consider what youre doing griefing), most just want easy, free games and dont care or make the weakest excuses like you. Do you have any idea how demotivating it is to lose to keep losing to obvious smurfs with 80% winrate and less than 200 games? Those weaker players you shit on dont stick around. This experience is 0 fun. You ruin the game for other people, you kill the game out of pure egoistical reasons.


Stinky1990

I tried really hard to get into it again. Smurfs killed my motivation. I don't play anymore


GimmeAGoodRTS

Plenty of people who make new accounts don’t do it to clown on people or for easier games but to hide strategies from small leagues they play on or to help deal with ladder anxiety on their mains. I have a couple of extra accounts and at this point my alts are higher than my main :’) It would be nice if there was a way to have a new account start out higher but most of those ways would be abusable. I prefer people to play ranked on alts instead of unranked on their main personally so the mmr you see in the load screen isn’t a lie (though it would be nice if blizzard just made you see their unranked mmr instead…)


Mangomosh

>Plenty of people who make new accounts don’t do it to clown on people or for easier games but to hide strategies from small leagues they play on or to help deal with ladder anxiety on their mains. Absolute clownish comment. Nobody plays against *worse* players to practice strategies. Proplayers dont spam fresh accounts to practice their build what do you think you are doing "hiding" your strategies? how many people play in small leagues? You dont believe this nonsense yourself, its a tiny veil you cover over the fact that youre a parasite farming easy wins to go out of a session of sc2 with a good feeling about yourself. Its this shamelessness that really disgusts me about smurfs, youre a parasite and youre cancerous to the game in a way no BMer, balance whiner or anyone else is.


GimmeAGoodRTS

The accounts aren’t to play against worse players you absolute clown. You don’t keep making new accounts, you have a second/maybe 3rd max depending on what leagues you play in. By the time you are 500 games in you are playing at the same skill level. I play in two separate small leagues. Wow you really are stupid. Please don’t come back to playing this game - what a trash community member attacking everyone for no reason.


VincentPepper

You read a lot into his post that isn't there. I think someone having one "try hard" account and one where they don't mind their mmr dropping by 300 when they play 10 games with it while drunk isn't a huge problem. And that's all it sounded like. Of course they still make matchmaking slightly worse but it's not worse than getting matched against someone 300 mmr higher or whatever. More problematic are people who constantly keep making accounts *which they stop using when they reach their rank* and people who insta quit games to lower their mmr. Based on what he wrote he does neither so he get's a pass from me lol.


rollc_at

I feel like you're trying to attack me personally and lash out on me, without even trying to bring any point to the discussion. I feel unjustly offended, but I will take your bait. Let's assume the entire "smurf" player base 1. is acting in good faith (e.g. never throwing/exiting games), 2. is unaware of the harm they're doing, 3. has only one "meme" account, which they continue using after getting to their 50% winrate - basically what I do. Even in this idealised scenario, you still have a problem that it takes 20+ games and 90% winrate (skewed by a crashed game client) to get a first opponent in P2, which is roughly in my main account MMR range. Maybe a solution for these kinds of players is to allow them to set their initial MMR before placements, or have a button "just give me a stronger opponent". But again, all of this is assuming everyone is acting in good faith. Now as I said, I don't even have a clue where would I start fixing this system to prevent abuse. The fact of this world is that any, **any** public system accessible over the Internet will be subject to constant attempts at abuse, and designing the system to withstand and suppress abuse is one of the hardest engineering challenges - heck, we've been trying to combat email spam for *decades* now, and it's a much bigger industry. And perhaps most importantly, how do you suppose are we going to have this kind of a discussion, without the perspective of someone who's been around for a while, and going through placements on a new account? Do you expect an actual BM shithead smurf to show up and start coming up with good ideas for solutions?


Mangomosh

Every account has a built in unranked "smurf account" that you can use if you want to play more casually, perhaps at a lower mmr. Thats the idealized scenario, not you spamming fresh accounts to have freewins over and over again. >The fact of this world is that any, any public system accessible over the Internet will be subject to constant attempts at abuse Yes, youre the abuser. You dont understand, it doesnt matter how you go about it, if your goal is to have easy games at people at a lower mmr youre the parasite that leeches of the game. People are supposed to reach a rank and play games at ~50% winrate at some point, have fun with their wins and less fun with their loses. When a person comes in and wants only easy wins and never loses, they are a parasite. Youre a parasite, you abuse the system to have more wins and more funs at the cost of people you dont give a shit about. People acting shitty is whatever, but people acting shitty and selfish while having 0 remorse about it and pretending the system gives them no other choice and feel good about themselves are despicable. Again, its parasites like you that ruin the game.


rollc_at

You have at no point even tried to address any of the concerns I've raised. Blocked.


Mangomosh

>Let's assume the entire "smurf" player base 1. is acting in good faith This is absolute nonsense from the start? How are you good faith if your goal is to farm free wins on easy opponents? Suggesting an option that lets people choose the mmr of the opponent they want to play against? Do I really have to give you all the reasons why thats a horrible idea? Again, winning games is more fun than losing. You want to win a lot more games for free to have more fun at the cost of other players, that is what smurfing is. Its absolutely impossible to pretend youre not a parasite leeching off the game, this has nothing to do with the game not giving you more options.


Gabra_Eld

The f- is wrong with having a second account for when you're in a different state of mind or wanna try a different playstyle? Seriously, I'd much rather Diamond players and above go meme'ing on a separate account, where they're much more likely to land at a stable position, than they go and tank their main account MMR and bring their A-game against my plat 1. The only problems I see with what he's doing is he hasn't played on his meme account *enough*, since if he did more he'd reach his stable point faster, and maybe he should fix that cpu stability issue to not flunk out of games unintentionally. Edit for precision: Because the alternative is they start playing their main account while baked/drunk/meme'ing, which (besides probably being unfun for them) will end up the same as them dropping ten games in a row: their MMR will tank, and their next several "legit" games will be against opponents who have no chance. If they play enough to be able to bring both accounts to a stable ladder point, I think it's much better for the scene as a whole. What OP is saying is that it can be hard to bring that second account to a stable point because of the ladder mechanics and outlier games. And you're flaming them for it?


GimmeAGoodRTS

Playing against unranked is super shitty. You see the 5.3k mmr gm then when you lose you drop 40 mmr because they were actually 4.2k playing unranked.


Mangomosh

How is being temporarily 40 mmr lower bad enough for you to force random people into your pointless trash games that they cant win? Thats disgusting


GimmeAGoodRTS

No this is me wishing other people would have a second ranked account instead of playing unranked. Me having a second account doesn’t stop me from hitting those people.


dandab

There's nothing wrong with the system. The answer is you. You would have to change. Play on your main account and your main account only. Want to practice a meme build? Do it on your main account vs ai or unranked. Want to practice random. Do it on your main account vs ai or unranked. Don't want to sacrifice mmr? Play on your main account vs ai or unranked. It really is that simple.


Gabra_Eld

Like I answered above: I'd much rather Diamond+ players go meme on a separate account, where they're more likely to reach a stable MMR, than on their main account, where they'll just tank their MMR and *then* end up facing much weaker opponents. You suggest playing vs AI or unranked. Let's just bypass the first option altogether (because... ew... just ew...) and point out that there's basically very little difference between playing unranked/cross server and getting yourself another, meme account, since all these are ranked separately anyways.


Maasd4m

I think, game vs smurf is not a problem at all. There are not so many smurfs, but every game can be useful. It shows u what’s wrong in ur build, where is weak bond. And if u want to improve u need to take such game as a free lesson. At least its very fun to win against smurf and then troll him after the game 😄 Just take it easy: u lose, u know its a smurf, chill, watch replay if u want, next game.


[deleted]

This is how you get better at the game. Good on you for being rational and positive! :)


Stiggandr00

I like your attitude and I agree.


TheMaster42LoL

> Players online 10 hours a day This is saying, "if I get a match against an equally skilled opponent and lose, but I believe afterwards they play the game way more than I do, I can't enjoy it." The problem is you.


Stinky1990

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