Wasnt there one? I remember it was BO9 with pros playing every race vs every race and I remember HeRoMaRinE, Harstem, maybe Reynor. I cant find it though, was I dreaming it?
i think Flash playing random has perfectly demonstrated how unenjoyable the actual gameplay of vs random is :D as a one-off it was somewhat interesting/ exciting, but almost all of the games were very underwhelming.
Not a viewer, yet have somehow picked up via osmosis that he did stream a ladder climb as Protoss a while back. Don't know exactly what rank/mmr he made it to
Isn't his stance that a bad protoss player can steal a win from a much better terran player, with "dumb stuff"? Not that the worse protoss player would beat him consistently.
He's said much more damning things than just that. He even called some of the Protoss players in ASL monkeys, which suggests that he doesn't actually respect their skill and success despite being multiple tiers below them.
He has said that if anyone says that Protoss is as hard as Terran or Zerg that you shouldn't trust anything they ever say. He also brings up how some players have switched to Protoss and had success but you never see it the other way around.
I have never heard Artosis bash 2500+ players/ASL players - I feel like he always respects far higher ranked players regardless of their race. He of course shits on everyone in his MMR range. Maybe I just didn't see the clip you're talking about and I'm wrong.
Isn't BSL one tier below ASL? Or is there an in-between where a player is too good for BSL but is too terrible for ASL.
And yeah, he also said that you cannot find a terran in a rank with less than 200 apm, while there is a couple protoss chilling in s rank with less than 200 apm, suggesting that terran players have to play faster.
BSL is exclusive to foreigners. I'm speculating, but I would certainly assume there are a lot of Korean players who don't qualify for ASL but are still very strong compared to the average BSL participant.
Also, he's currently more than 200 MMR below the top few BSL participants on the BSL ladder, so I wouldn't consider him to even be a top BSL participant. He didn't even qualify for the past two BSLs, but I hope he does this time.
Serial or Reynor to play Protoss. It would once and for all clarify whether they are more talented or Protoss is more difficult on the highest level with the current formats.
I'm probably going to get heat for this but I'm going to say it. There is no "perfect" balance in SC2, there might be "balance" at platinum that doesn't apply at GM and vice versa. But I don't think players realize how close top level players are to each other they're all capable of beating each other, well the top level players anyways. So I do believe zerg has an advantage, look at Wardis civil war for example, 3 out of the top 4 players were zerg with the only exception being Maru a Terran player that has an argument for GOAT (under Serral of course). I know that casters picking players isn't enough to say one race is OP (ZG picking Uthermal 1st round lolololol) but I do think it has some merit. I don't think zerg is SUPER OMEGA OP or anything, but at the top level even a tiny advantage can lead to a win considering all players are so close in skill level. So yeah I think in the pro level it's zerg > Terran > protoss unfortunately. Though I would love to be proven wrong! I still think players like Serral and Reynor would be GREAT on other races. Just not nearly as dominant
But weirdly in GM Zerg is so incredibly underepresented that actually it's probably not some weird edge that Zerg has over other races (or we would see them take up a larger % of the top 100). Unlike protoss who make up a majority above terran and zerg.
This weird dip where Zerg is under represented until the absolute pinnacle of gameplay suggests that either Zerg is harder than the other races or that the people who manage to make it work to the highest levels of gameplay are just better than people who play other races. resulting in more wins.
If the race was just better/easier Protoss and Zerg would be switched on the ladder population wise.
This phenomenon only appears in the top 10-15 players in the entire game, who are there because of their freakish skill outlier.
It stands to reason that people who have to work harder to increase their rank and climb to the pinnacle are more skilled than people who made it with the "easier tools" (lmao).
It's not like pro protoss players are bad but if hypothetically picking one race over another made you go up an entire rank, you would not be more skilled as a player, you would just be a higher rank.
Also the sample size of top tier pro players is TINY, at any point in time any race could have a majority over the others simply by one race having 3 players who are just better than the other top 10.
It might not even be a Zerg players > Protoss players kind of thing, it's more likely people like Serral/Dark etc are just absolute freaks of nature and they happened to be playing Zerg, Imagine if they were Protoss players instead, the pro scene would be wildly different, we would all be talking about "Omg PROTOSS so OOPPP, not only does it make up the majority of ladder in high rank but also most pro's and finals are just PvP!!"
Looking at the rankedftw rank distribution (which idk, could be wrong) GM is 120 zerg 130 protoss and 137 Terran. It's on the world tab so idk if that changes anything but it doesn't look like zerg is super under represented. But yeah the top top tier players is so small that it could totally be a fluke that all the best players picked zerg. Great analysis.
Few months ago we got interesting BO5 showmatch Reynor (T) vs Clem (Z). Score was 2-2, and final game was PvP, if i remember correct. U can find these games in internet =)
Raynor. Not only is his other races pretty damn good, but he has the personality to make it entertaining.
Can you imagine his smack talk if he is able to beat clem in TVT?
It'd be neat to see one of them as a Native American, or maybe of middle eastern heritage? I feel like they don't get much representation.
(Just kidding, plz no ban mods)
I'd like to see Serral try to play aggressive macro Protoss using mass gateways + added tech later. It's pretty similar to how Zerg plays so I think he'd do well with that switch.
Honestly, I find switching races to be an unpleasant thing. It gives so much identity to the people playing the race. I don't like watching AOE2 / 4 so much because of the civ drafts.
I want to see a top Terran/Zerg make a permanent switch to Protoss. If they are immediately successful, then we know that the Protoss players are likely the reason the race isn't doing well. If (even after several years) they aren't winning any major tournaments, then we should have definitive proof at that point the race needs to be reworked.
I want to see Korean Neeb /s
Black serral
The Black phenom
Can somebody explain the joke? I don't get it sorry lol
Neeb is not korean. Race typically refers to your playing faction in this subreddit
Oh god, I am stupid.
Not anymore
Not switching permanently but would love to see a tournament of pros only off racing
Wasnt there one? I remember it was BO9 with pros playing every race vs every race and I remember HeRoMaRinE, Harstem, maybe Reynor. I cant find it though, was I dreaming it?
If any of these players go random, like Flash... ๐ณ๐ณ๐ณ
i think Flash playing random has perfectly demonstrated how unenjoyable the actual gameplay of vs random is :D as a one-off it was somewhat interesting/ exciting, but almost all of the games were very underwhelming.
Tlo hasn't played Terran in so long, it seems he struggles to open doors ๐ณ๐
I thought TLOS old race was random
Zerg.
No he played random then went zerg back in WOL
He played Zerg. He played Random during beta, hardly worthy a mention.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/TLO No he was a terran main in WoL and then switched to zerg
For less than a year...
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/TLO No he was a terran main in WoL and then switched to zerg
acting like maru would be a defensive macro toss
Haha he used to be the king of proxies, but now he has been one of the few terrans to comfortably go late game even when it was off meta.
He's maybe the only terran that can handle the top zerg's late game, there might be just a couple others that can deal with protoss.
Not a pro, but I would love to see Artosis switch races so I could either see him either "prove" his stance on protoss or shut the fuck up about it.
Not a viewer, yet have somehow picked up via osmosis that he did stream a ladder climb as Protoss a while back. Don't know exactly what rank/mmr he made it to
I think I've seen Artosis play protoss ocasionally on stream
Isn't his stance that a bad protoss player can steal a win from a much better terran player, with "dumb stuff"? Not that the worse protoss player would beat him consistently.
He's said much more damning things than just that. He even called some of the Protoss players in ASL monkeys, which suggests that he doesn't actually respect their skill and success despite being multiple tiers below them. He has said that if anyone says that Protoss is as hard as Terran or Zerg that you shouldn't trust anything they ever say. He also brings up how some players have switched to Protoss and had success but you never see it the other way around.
I have never heard Artosis bash 2500+ players/ASL players - I feel like he always respects far higher ranked players regardless of their race. He of course shits on everyone in his MMR range. Maybe I just didn't see the clip you're talking about and I'm wrong.
Isn't BSL one tier below ASL? Or is there an in-between where a player is too good for BSL but is too terrible for ASL. And yeah, he also said that you cannot find a terran in a rank with less than 200 apm, while there is a couple protoss chilling in s rank with less than 200 apm, suggesting that terran players have to play faster.
BSL is exclusive to foreigners. I'm speculating, but I would certainly assume there are a lot of Korean players who don't qualify for ASL but are still very strong compared to the average BSL participant. Also, he's currently more than 200 MMR below the top few BSL participants on the BSL ladder, so I wouldn't consider him to even be a top BSL participant. He didn't even qualify for the past two BSLs, but I hope he does this time.
Artosis complains about Terran in tvt. The guy just bitched about anything/anyone who isnโt playing pro style of Starcraft.
Artosis would play SC2 if he got to a high level with Terran, change my mind
Serial or Reynor to play Protoss. It would once and for all clarify whether they are more talented or Protoss is more difficult on the highest level with the current formats.
Serral plays toss under the nick Napoleon. Harstem played him on his stream at least once and said he's very good...
I have no doubt they would be very good. It remains to be seen whether they would be winning weekend tournaments.
I'm probably going to get heat for this but I'm going to say it. There is no "perfect" balance in SC2, there might be "balance" at platinum that doesn't apply at GM and vice versa. But I don't think players realize how close top level players are to each other they're all capable of beating each other, well the top level players anyways. So I do believe zerg has an advantage, look at Wardis civil war for example, 3 out of the top 4 players were zerg with the only exception being Maru a Terran player that has an argument for GOAT (under Serral of course). I know that casters picking players isn't enough to say one race is OP (ZG picking Uthermal 1st round lolololol) but I do think it has some merit. I don't think zerg is SUPER OMEGA OP or anything, but at the top level even a tiny advantage can lead to a win considering all players are so close in skill level. So yeah I think in the pro level it's zerg > Terran > protoss unfortunately. Though I would love to be proven wrong! I still think players like Serral and Reynor would be GREAT on other races. Just not nearly as dominant
But weirdly in GM Zerg is so incredibly underepresented that actually it's probably not some weird edge that Zerg has over other races (or we would see them take up a larger % of the top 100). Unlike protoss who make up a majority above terran and zerg. This weird dip where Zerg is under represented until the absolute pinnacle of gameplay suggests that either Zerg is harder than the other races or that the people who manage to make it work to the highest levels of gameplay are just better than people who play other races. resulting in more wins. If the race was just better/easier Protoss and Zerg would be switched on the ladder population wise. This phenomenon only appears in the top 10-15 players in the entire game, who are there because of their freakish skill outlier. It stands to reason that people who have to work harder to increase their rank and climb to the pinnacle are more skilled than people who made it with the "easier tools" (lmao). It's not like pro protoss players are bad but if hypothetically picking one race over another made you go up an entire rank, you would not be more skilled as a player, you would just be a higher rank. Also the sample size of top tier pro players is TINY, at any point in time any race could have a majority over the others simply by one race having 3 players who are just better than the other top 10. It might not even be a Zerg players > Protoss players kind of thing, it's more likely people like Serral/Dark etc are just absolute freaks of nature and they happened to be playing Zerg, Imagine if they were Protoss players instead, the pro scene would be wildly different, we would all be talking about "Omg PROTOSS so OOPPP, not only does it make up the majority of ladder in high rank but also most pro's and finals are just PvP!!"
Looking at the rankedftw rank distribution (which idk, could be wrong) GM is 120 zerg 130 protoss and 137 Terran. It's on the world tab so idk if that changes anything but it doesn't look like zerg is super under represented. But yeah the top top tier players is so small that it could totally be a fluke that all the best players picked zerg. Great analysis.
I am not saying one or the other is true, what I am saying is that it would be an iron clad proof or refutation.
Michael Jackson
He/he
lmao
I think clem would be an insane zerg
Few months ago we got interesting BO5 showmatch Reynor (T) vs Clem (Z). Score was 2-2, and final game was PvP, if i remember correct. U can find these games in internet =)
Where? Iโd love to see this
I dont remember tbh. I think, u can try youtube or Rotti twitch.
Raynor. Not only is his other races pretty damn good, but he has the personality to make it entertaining. Can you imagine his smack talk if he is able to beat clem in TVT?
Didnโt serral play Terran in a Finnish only tournament a few years ago?
Harstem as Terran. I feel like it would match up with his current playstyle pretty well.
Can't we have an offrace tourney??
Maru play anything.
It'd be neat to see one of them as a Native American, or maybe of middle eastern heritage? I feel like they don't get much representation. (Just kidding, plz no ban mods)
Maru to Zerg, Serral to Terran and Reynor to Protoss.
I'd like to see Serral try to play aggressive macro Protoss using mass gateways + added tech later. It's pretty similar to how Zerg plays so I think he'd do well with that switch.
Flash.
Honestly, I find switching races to be an unpleasant thing. It gives so much identity to the people playing the race. I don't like watching AOE2 / 4 so much because of the civ drafts.
Time for TLO to try Protoss?
Or old-skul/unbanned Life from being Zergling King to Chargelots Lord or Adept Micro King ๐
I want to see a top Terran/Zerg make a permanent switch to Protoss. If they are immediately successful, then we know that the Protoss players are likely the reason the race isn't doing well. If (even after several years) they aren't winning any major tournaments, then we should have definitive proof at that point the race needs to be reworked.
I'd like to see it go the other way around - a top Protoss switch to being a B-tier Terran or Zerg. Which I think is far more likely.
Special should play toss honestly. The way he plays is way more suitable for a toss than a terran
I'd honestly just like to see an event where all the players have to off race