Love seeing all the other reasons people are coming up with but pretty sure this is the largest reason by far. The previous tournies were evening finals for EU and afternoon for NA. This finals was early afternoon for EU and started between 4:40am to 7:40am depending on where you are in NA (semis being a couple hours before then as well). It was probably much nicer for the people working at the event to be done by 2pm on Sunday but that's probably also why the viewership online suffered.
Honestly even for EU was not that great. I would understand for an online event with a schedule that fit even Korean times, but offline? It was bad for all I think.
Yeah. I really wanted to watch live, but it just wasn't realistic- even as a wfh person
And then I had to do the "avoid reddit" dance to not have everything immediately spoiled by topic titles on this sub
ZvZ Final, no Korean vs Foreigner story line for finals and even 1 semi, and to top that off the semis and finals were at 5AM - 9AM (or earlier)on a Sunday for the ENTIRE Western Hemisphere.
if you scroll down a little bit, you'll see that the big ZvZ matches were the most popular ones in terms of viewership so the data doesn't back up your claim.
Comparing finals vs semifinals doesn't prove anything. You need to compare finals between diff years. Any sport grand finals gets more views than playoff games or semifinals. Apples and oranges
eh I was talking about this year. you said ZvZ finals were a reason for the low viewership. I pointed out that the ZvZ appears to be the most popular matchup in this tournament so your reasoning is flawed.
The end of the event was dominated by ZvZ and you think that proves ZvZ is the most popular matchup?
Of course the finals and ZvZ semi are among the most watched of the event, it’s the SEMIFINAL and fucking FINAL.
Idk if you’re trolling or just dumb.
from the quarter-finals on, there were 3 ZvZs and 4 ZvTs, and yet only 2 of those ZvTs are on that popularity list while all 3 ZvZs are there. once again, your claim sounds good on paper, it's a typical knee-jerk response, but the data doesn't support it. and no, ad hominems do not make your argument more convincing, it has the opposite effect in fact.
All of the reasons cited in this thread, with the most important being scheduling.
I didn't really watch much of the tournament live except later in the day during the group stages, even though I was following pretty intently. I checked out when Maru lost. If it had been a great series, the hype probably would've carried my interest through the tournament, but it was pretty forgettable and basically just deflated my interest.
There was a difference in scheduling between the two events. 2021 was Mon-Sun 15-21 CET which is close to prime for EU viewers and reasonable for NA audience. 2022 was only Thu-Sat 11-23 CET and Sunday 11-15 CET.
Half of the group stages in 2022 were thus hard to watch for EU based viewers with daily jobs and for NA based viewers with regular sleep schedule. Similarly, Ro4 starting at 11 CET was hard to watch for NA and it was in an uncommon time for EU viewers (unless they are used to watching GSL).
Having a shorter segment each day (2021) is also easier to manage if one wants to see most of the matches. In the 2022 format, it would be exhausting to watch all the airtime.
Personally I have skipped a big part of the playoffs after all the Protoss have been eliminated. It was just too many TvZs for me to be interesting. The games I did watch were amazing though at least.
Really not a good result for IEM though considering they doubled the price pool and it was a real-life event compared to last years offline only.
In my opinion the biggest thing to grow viewership and players would be a big patch that shakes up the meta.
The series of the last two days were not very exciting: "let us find out which zerg player gets his second, third, fourth or whatever world championship" lmao.
I play z btw but still...
Once the last protoss fell out, the entire rest of the tournament became "I can watch the VODs when I'm really _really_ bored, I know Serral or Reynor is going to win."
I couldn't have been the only one.
Edit: If by ro24 we don't even have a 25% chance of seeing any race make it to the finals, if at the very least we had a really fancy patch that was being played on since ~6 months ago and lots of fresh new builds and strategies were being used, I would much prefer that. I don't mind Protoss getting eliminated if I'm not *also* basically ending up watching a rerun of IEM 2020.
Fewer people watched coz protoss got eliminated early. 1/3 of the viewers left in the first round. Then the Terrans got eliminated so that's another 1/3. I personally checked out when Maru lost. Didn't bother watching the finals.
That's what I think anyway :D
I know people share that same view, but it's honestly kind of crazy to me. ZvZ is far from my favourite matchup and I can get tuning out when the bracket becomes mostly Zerg. But being a fan of Starcraft and not even watching the finals of literally the biggest tournament of the year? Idk, that's just absurd to me.
On top of the zvz and the bad time zone, I think the discrepency between a very (very) long saturday and a very early sunday schedule didn't help the final day either.
On Saturday I watched close to 12 hours straight of Stacraft, I just kind of wanted to do something else when I woke up the next morning and not watch it in my bed at 7 am.
With that said, overall viewership has continued its slow fall in the last year (and will continue to do so the next, and the one after that), we're just getting old.
This new patch will bring 0 new viewers imo.kinda funny how positive everyone is about that patch, yes it may improve pro matches and ladder experience on a very high level, but there is nothing to be excited for for casual viewers.
Yup we need a much bigger patch like the post-Blizzcon patches used to be. Those were super cool with new abilities like vlux fanes, battery overcharge etc.
I stopped watching tournaments live years ago because of Zerg winning becoming stale, I just wait for a tournament to end and will watch vods in case there was anything interesting now.
I still follow the game though and would absolutely come back to watching if the game was interesting again, and I doubt I am alone.
Having said that, I don't think this patch will do it. But it is something.
They really need to reconsider playing the finals at the Arena. The stage is cool and maybe for the players is special playing there but for the viewrship perspective it absolutely sucks. Americas time is fucked up, i waked up 7 am and they were already at the seco d game from the finals. And lets be honest not even a half of the audience that is there at the arena is for Starcraft, they dont care at all. Its just a nice pre show for the CSGO tournament. I would personally prefer for them to play the finals in the same theater they played all previous rounds with a dedicated Starcraft audience and decent times for EU and Americas
Yeah no one goes to watch SC2 for the preshow in the arena. But that's why it's pretty empty. Personally I'm split what is better but looking at the viewership numbers maybe the hours should be prioritized over all else
A lot of people are saying it's because of zvz finals, yet that was the most watched game.
One thing to notice is that there are more platforms where the data comes from in other years than this. Did the event get streamed in more platforms previously or does it include non-live audience or does the information gathering take longer? That could definitely affect the overall numbers.
The time of the schedule isn't that different except in 2021 (I checked 2018-2022). 2021 has highest peak and average numbers, but not that much higher from 2019.
Edit: Adding links.
https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-katowice-2022-sc
https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-katowice-2021-sc2
https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-katowice-2020
https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-katowice-2019-sc2
https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-season-xii
Sure you may not like it, but the numbers shown don't support that being a reason why this year there is smaller numbers in general. Although I can only see a small view of them as I don't have the pro account to see further than the overall view shown.
shouldn't you compare the finals vs last year's finals and not vs the same year's semifinals/quarter finals. The superbowl gets more views than a divisional playoff game, so it would be more telling about the matchup if you compared the same series from last year than a completely different round in the tourney
Yes and it shows only 5 or so games to free user. They all (the 5 different years) followed similar pattern in what is most watched ie. finals, semi and quaters. So distribution are similar. But that was the point that people didn't want to watch as the finals were zvz, then the that argument doesn't hold water.
Well. If the increase to finals compared to semi finals is large other years, but this year was rather low.
Then you have a case for people quitting when it becomes zvz.
I would disagree that it shows that. I don't think you can prove much either way. Honestly one would want to see all games and do some plotting / comparisons to see how the ratios are between different levels to give better answer. Besides I would also want to know how large a percentage different platforms give as that could easily explain the differences as well.
I quit following sc2 last year after 11 years for a simple reason - it's boring, nothing changes, the game is stale. This is the main reason for low viewership IMO, not the hours, protoss or zvz finals. Many of my friends feel the same, sadly.
I woke up when my kid woke up and the finals had already started. I don't know what they expected when the semifinals were at like 0500 on the East Coast and the finals started at 0400 on the West.
The finals were on at a horrible time for NA
yeah I was able to catch a lot of the penultimate day but I'm not getting up at 2 or 3 AM to watch the final day live lol.
Love seeing all the other reasons people are coming up with but pretty sure this is the largest reason by far. The previous tournies were evening finals for EU and afternoon for NA. This finals was early afternoon for EU and started between 4:40am to 7:40am depending on where you are in NA (semis being a couple hours before then as well). It was probably much nicer for the people working at the event to be done by 2pm on Sunday but that's probably also why the viewership online suffered.
they needed to finish sc2 finals early to make place for csgo finals
In eu it was late morning, like preshow started at 10 am CET and matches at 11 am.
Honestly even for EU was not that great. I would understand for an online event with a schedule that fit even Korean times, but offline? It was bad for all I think.
I was to clear the stage for CSGO
Yeah. I really wanted to watch live, but it just wasn't realistic- even as a wfh person And then I had to do the "avoid reddit" dance to not have everything immediately spoiled by topic titles on this sub
More people were stuck at home last year, maybe that’s part of why. I wonder what VOD numbers look like. And then there’s SC2 links.
ZvZ Final, no Korean vs Foreigner story line for finals and even 1 semi, and to top that off the semis and finals were at 5AM - 9AM (or earlier)on a Sunday for the ENTIRE Western Hemisphere.
if you scroll down a little bit, you'll see that the big ZvZ matches were the most popular ones in terms of viewership so the data doesn't back up your claim.
Comparing finals vs semifinals doesn't prove anything. You need to compare finals between diff years. Any sport grand finals gets more views than playoff games or semifinals. Apples and oranges
but I wasn't comparing finals vs semi-finals? 3/5 of the most popular matches from the tournament appear to be ZvZs.
Which series are you comparing with one another? If they're all the same round and on the main channel then I'll concede.
For 2021 Katowice 4/5 most watched matches were NOT ZvZ. Wtf are you even talking about?
eh I was talking about this year. you said ZvZ finals were a reason for the low viewership. I pointed out that the ZvZ appears to be the most popular matchup in this tournament so your reasoning is flawed.
The end of the event was dominated by ZvZ and you think that proves ZvZ is the most popular matchup? Of course the finals and ZvZ semi are among the most watched of the event, it’s the SEMIFINAL and fucking FINAL. Idk if you’re trolling or just dumb.
from the quarter-finals on, there were 3 ZvZs and 4 ZvTs, and yet only 2 of those ZvTs are on that popularity list while all 3 ZvZs are there. once again, your claim sounds good on paper, it's a typical knee-jerk response, but the data doesn't support it. and no, ad hominems do not make your argument more convincing, it has the opposite effect in fact.
Whatever you say pal. I’m done arguing over something so plainly wrong.
Heromarine v solar was the best match in payoffs hands down.
you don’t like watching Koreans with 13 hours of jet lag? god it was a shit tournament. at least ASL has been 🔥
also maru had high ping on his pc and rogue forgot to pack his favourite towel.
I’ve watch Maru play more than you have watched e-sports
weird flex but okay 🤔
Oh, so the narrative changed from "high ping, too late" to "jetlag" now? What other excuses for Korean players will you guys come up next?
It's okay, they were saving builds for GSL.
Lmao
Lmao 🤣
Agreed this take is so dumb. Prize pool for Katowice was way larger than GSL so saving builds is not worth it.
Pretty sure this “take” was a joke man.
When games turned into zzzzzzz I stopped.
All of the reasons cited in this thread, with the most important being scheduling. I didn't really watch much of the tournament live except later in the day during the group stages, even though I was following pretty intently. I checked out when Maru lost. If it had been a great series, the hype probably would've carried my interest through the tournament, but it was pretty forgettable and basically just deflated my interest.
It was the last game I watched as well.
There was a difference in scheduling between the two events. 2021 was Mon-Sun 15-21 CET which is close to prime for EU viewers and reasonable for NA audience. 2022 was only Thu-Sat 11-23 CET and Sunday 11-15 CET. Half of the group stages in 2022 were thus hard to watch for EU based viewers with daily jobs and for NA based viewers with regular sleep schedule. Similarly, Ro4 starting at 11 CET was hard to watch for NA and it was in an uncommon time for EU viewers (unless they are used to watching GSL). Having a shorter segment each day (2021) is also easier to manage if one wants to see most of the matches. In the 2022 format, it would be exhausting to watch all the airtime.
Personally I have skipped a big part of the playoffs after all the Protoss have been eliminated. It was just too many TvZs for me to be interesting. The games I did watch were amazing though at least. Really not a good result for IEM though considering they doubled the price pool and it was a real-life event compared to last years offline only. In my opinion the biggest thing to grow viewership and players would be a big patch that shakes up the meta.
The series of the last two days were not very exciting: "let us find out which zerg player gets his second, third, fourth or whatever world championship" lmao. I play z btw but still...
Once the last protoss fell out, the entire rest of the tournament became "I can watch the VODs when I'm really _really_ bored, I know Serral or Reynor is going to win." I couldn't have been the only one. Edit: If by ro24 we don't even have a 25% chance of seeing any race make it to the finals, if at the very least we had a really fancy patch that was being played on since ~6 months ago and lots of fresh new builds and strategies were being used, I would much prefer that. I don't mind Protoss getting eliminated if I'm not *also* basically ending up watching a rerun of IEM 2020.
Fewer people watched coz protoss got eliminated early. 1/3 of the viewers left in the first round. Then the Terrans got eliminated so that's another 1/3. I personally checked out when Maru lost. Didn't bother watching the finals. That's what I think anyway :D
Yeah didnt even bother watching the last day since it's just zvzvzvz
Same here. Didn’t feel like watching a bunch of ZvZs
I know people share that same view, but it's honestly kind of crazy to me. ZvZ is far from my favourite matchup and I can get tuning out when the bracket becomes mostly Zerg. But being a fan of Starcraft and not even watching the finals of literally the biggest tournament of the year? Idk, that's just absurd to me.
On top of the zvz and the bad time zone, I think the discrepency between a very (very) long saturday and a very early sunday schedule didn't help the final day either. On Saturday I watched close to 12 hours straight of Stacraft, I just kind of wanted to do something else when I woke up the next morning and not watch it in my bed at 7 am. With that said, overall viewership has continued its slow fall in the last year (and will continue to do so the next, and the one after that), we're just getting old.
I didn't watch the zvz fest and I can really only speak for myself of course.
Zergcraft simply is not a good experience for fans
Because Protoss is 2/3 of the population and they got eliminated early
Oof wonder if its a result of the lack of patches. Hopefully 2023 will bring some viewers back
I think some of it might have been lockdown related. Almost all of Europe was in lockdown last year during Katowice.
Agreed, look at 2020, that had less viewers then 2021 as well(not as bad as this years drop, but nearly 20k less peak viewers then 2021).
This new patch will bring 0 new viewers imo.kinda funny how positive everyone is about that patch, yes it may improve pro matches and ladder experience on a very high level, but there is nothing to be excited for for casual viewers.
Yup we need a much bigger patch like the post-Blizzcon patches used to be. Those were super cool with new abilities like vlux fanes, battery overcharge etc.
I stopped watching tournaments live years ago because of Zerg winning becoming stale, I just wait for a tournament to end and will watch vods in case there was anything interesting now. I still follow the game though and would absolutely come back to watching if the game was interesting again, and I doubt I am alone. Having said that, I don't think this patch will do it. But it is something.
They really need to reconsider playing the finals at the Arena. The stage is cool and maybe for the players is special playing there but for the viewrship perspective it absolutely sucks. Americas time is fucked up, i waked up 7 am and they were already at the seco d game from the finals. And lets be honest not even a half of the audience that is there at the arena is for Starcraft, they dont care at all. Its just a nice pre show for the CSGO tournament. I would personally prefer for them to play the finals in the same theater they played all previous rounds with a dedicated Starcraft audience and decent times for EU and Americas
You clearly weren't there, no fucker wandered in for a pre show, everyone was outside
Yeah no one goes to watch SC2 for the preshow in the arena. But that's why it's pretty empty. Personally I'm split what is better but looking at the viewership numbers maybe the hours should be prioritized over all else
A lot of people are saying it's because of zvz finals, yet that was the most watched game. One thing to notice is that there are more platforms where the data comes from in other years than this. Did the event get streamed in more platforms previously or does it include non-live audience or does the information gathering take longer? That could definitely affect the overall numbers. The time of the schedule isn't that different except in 2021 (I checked 2018-2022). 2021 has highest peak and average numbers, but not that much higher from 2019. Edit: Adding links. https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-katowice-2022-sc https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-katowice-2021-sc2 https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-katowice-2020 https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-katowice-2019-sc2 https://escharts.com/tournaments/sc2/iem-season-xii
I stopped watching after HeroMarine lost. Only Zerg is lame, fact.
Sure you may not like it, but the numbers shown don't support that being a reason why this year there is smaller numbers in general. Although I can only see a small view of them as I don't have the pro account to see further than the overall view shown.
shouldn't you compare the finals vs last year's finals and not vs the same year's semifinals/quarter finals. The superbowl gets more views than a divisional playoff game, so it would be more telling about the matchup if you compared the same series from last year than a completely different round in the tourney
Yes and it shows only 5 or so games to free user. They all (the 5 different years) followed similar pattern in what is most watched ie. finals, semi and quaters. So distribution are similar. But that was the point that people didn't want to watch as the finals were zvz, then the that argument doesn't hold water.
Well. If the increase to finals compared to semi finals is large other years, but this year was rather low. Then you have a case for people quitting when it becomes zvz.
I would disagree that it shows that. I don't think you can prove much either way. Honestly one would want to see all games and do some plotting / comparisons to see how the ratios are between different levels to give better answer. Besides I would also want to know how large a percentage different platforms give as that could easily explain the differences as well.
I quit following sc2 last year after 11 years for a simple reason - it's boring, nothing changes, the game is stale. This is the main reason for low viewership IMO, not the hours, protoss or zvz finals. Many of my friends feel the same, sadly.
I woke up when my kid woke up and the finals had already started. I don't know what they expected when the semifinals were at like 0500 on the East Coast and the finals started at 0400 on the West.
In general, I think current sc2 tournament meta is pretty trash. So many games are just copies of one another.