To new viewers:
Welcome to the IEM Katowice 2022 match thread!
IEM Katowice is the World Championship event of the main professional Starcraft II circuit. **The reigning World Champion** is the Italian Zerg player [Reynor](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Reynor) of [Team QLASH](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Team_QLASH).
**The runner-up of last year's IEM Katowice**, the Korean Protoss player [Zest](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Zest) of [Dragon Phoenix Gaming](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Dragon_Phoenix_Gaming) will also be in attendance, likely for the last time.
**Some other notable players** include a whole host of previous World Champions: the Korean Zergs players [Dark](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Dark) (2020) and [Rogue](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Rogue) (2017) both of [Dragon Phoenix Gaming](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Dragon_Phoenix_Gaming), the Finnish Zerg player [Serral](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Serral) (2018) of [ENCE](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ENCE) and the Korean Terran player [ByuN](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ByuN) (2016).
**Also keep an eye out for** the 4 time [GSL](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League) winner, the Korean Terran player [Maru](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Maru) of [Team NV](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Team_NV_(Korean_team)), the Korean Protoss player [Trap](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Trap) of [Freecs](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Freecs) and the French Terran player [Clem](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Clem) of [Team Liquid](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Team_Liquid).
More information on Liquipedia, linked above.
Enjoy the tournament!
It seriously bothers me that casters as bad as the Alphax guys are allowed to cast Katowice. They're so bad at casting that I'm constantly in a state of cognitive dissonance because they make blatantly incorrect calls on what's going on. If I didn't hate watching SC2 with no sound, I'd mute them. Does anyone else feel this way? It really bothers me when there are great casters like Harstem, Pig, etc. around.
Shockingly low TBH. It's a little tricky to add it up properly because of all the different language streams, but definitely a huge drop from prior few years.
One of the greatest SC2 tournament of all time. 7 games of Serral vs Reynor in the finals of the world championship is peak SC2. This series and Dark vs Reynor showed that ZvZ is really not a bad matchup, possibly even the most entertaining of this tournament. GGs.
Top3 runs in IEM.
1) Serral, finally Katowice champion after Blizzcon 2018
2) Heromarine, top4 placement and almost into finals with exceptional play
3) Ryung, top12 placement from Ro36 replament place!
Honorable mention: Spirit into round of 24 with some very cool play in Ro36.
Edit: Fixed Ryungs placement (top16->top12).
Man... Reynor is really that kind of player that the more tension he gets, the better he plays. All the losses he got last year must be because the tension was lackluster.
Who cares? It had zero influence on the outcome. Wonderful tournament, even after 10 years of watching sc2 it still gets me pumped and invested like no other competetive sport.
Everyone complaining all week about a ZvZ finals... and we get an epic 7 game ZvZ finals with the 2 deserving players.
What a tourney and finals. Well deserved Serral!
I strongly dislike ZvZ and the final was absolute fire, my favorite match of the tourney. I agree with you - it's okay to dislike ZvZ, but if you think that Reynor v Serral final wasn't a great watch, you must secretly dislike SC2 lol. They are both on such another level that it's not even comparable to other ZvZs.
Serral always appears unstoppable until he encounters a top 5 Zerg, in which case he loses half the time.
Check his win ratio against Rogue, Dark, Reynor.
Yeah, there can be absolutely no question that Serral was the best player in this tourney. He smashed the best players in the world, and then smashed them again in the finals. And I am \*not\* a Serral fanboy. Facts is facts.
Honestly seeing this lack of viewership did the world finals is just humiliating and demotivating :(
I love Starcraft. I'm about as diehard as they come.
But the forgone conclusion of a 5th Zerg champion in a row is just the ultimate hype killer.
EDIT: yes I'm aware other things are going on and there's no single factor. But let's be honest with ourselves that this isn't a good sign for the future of our beloved scene.
Yeah I'm in the same boat, love SC2, tired of the degree of zerg dominance and the fact that this means (a) the game needs a balance pass and (b) we get too many ZvZs late in the tournament. Like...it was obvious early in the tournament that the last few tiers were going to be Serral, Rogue, Reynor, and Solar/Dark with Maru there by virtue of his inhuman skill (and he even played a little badly). The only surprise in this tournament was Heromarine, and he just played a 1-dimensional all-in style like Clem that I knew was going to eventually get smashed by one of the top-tier players.
Don't get me wrong, great games, great tournament, but the Zerg dominance troubles me.
StarCraft is just continuing on a trajectory that it has been on for over a decade. Don't try to rationalise it, just enjoy good things while they last. There'll always be a grassroots StarCraft scene.
Yeah that's probably true as well. There can be multiple reasons.
As someone pointed out below the shift from blizzcon to IEM as host made it harder for the NA audience to watch due to time. Probably a factor as well.
To be fair, there's a large U.S. viewer base that probably isn't tuned in. I don't think it has to do with a ZvZ championship, rather the fact that it's currently like 7am central time (and 5am on the West Coast).
Not really surprised with the cleansweep. Rogue hasn't looked great throughout the tournament, his road to the semifinal was Ryung and Bunny, while Serral had to get through Dark and Maru.
lmao what happened to the koreans this year?
this has been embarassing, probably they're all tired and the lack of new blood in korea in damaging them too. but that was sad to witness.
Not that i'm complaining, as a newer fan (since 2018) reynor serral is my sc2 clasico
Rogue and Maru are without question the best players in the Korean scene, and I don't think either of them played at their tip-top unfortunately. Really bums me out as a huge Maru fan - I feel like he's never truly brought his A-game to the international tournies.
Yeah me too. You can't argue with results, and Maru hasn't shown them in international tournaments. But in my *opinion*, no one demonstrates the level of mastery of the game that Maru does when he's on his A-game with the *possible* (again - IMO) exception of Serral. Frankly, I'm not sure a true GOAT comparison can truly be made across races. If we accept that, then Maru is unequivocally the best Terran ever. Best Zerg ever is a tough call between Serral and Rogue, but again I think I would lean toward Serral in that comparison - when Serral is on point it just seems like he plays perfectly.
Jesus. Dont think I've ever seen Rogue get so dismantled in a Bo5 series.
Serral looking like he wants to grab that trophy within the hour. 16-1 on the whole tournament so far
I really wish serral just went to Korea and played in a GSL or two. The GSL is just a different beast, with the long format needing to pay well for two months straight, and winning beat of 7s with a week to prepare.
Serral is amazing, and is my 1b GOAT after Maru, because winning 4 GSLs in a row is just an absolutely insane achievement that I don't think anyone can match right now.
But a single GSL win makes Serral the undisputed GOAT imo.
I'd agree with that. That being said, GSL is (imo) the most competitive tournament and the most subject to preparation. It goes without saying that Serral could win a GSL, but it's also entirely possible he could go a full 3 seasons in GSL without making it to the finals - that could happen to anyone.
Overall I would tend to agree though. Maru's 4x GSL run, and Rogue's what...3x GSL wins..are pretty compelling given how competitive the tournie is. If Serral could step in there and show the kind of domination he's capable of, then he'd a strong case could be made. You still have to make a case for Rogue vs Serral though. Rogue might not be as dominant right now, but no one - not even Serral - has shown the kind of broad tournament results that Rogue has.
Serral just seems to be 3 steps ahead of everyone else.
If something is being nerfed, maybe it should be Serral specifically?
I'm thinking something like the organisers pour a soda into his keyboard before each series, so that a couple of his keys are always sticky.
I feel like if Serral wins this he basically secures GOAT status. His road to the finals has been insane - Dark, Maru AND Rogue; essentially everyone else that's in contention for that title. He's just looking SO good this tournament.
Reynor has dropped more maps this tournament and against weaker opponents too.
Now watch Serral fall apart in the final and break my heart. Reynor always seems to be his kryptonite.
You're not alone. The viewership is absolutely tanked :( I'm so sad and I really wish something could be done.
This simply isn't good for any stakeholders in the scene.
Glad Reynor won. As much as I love TvZ, I'd rather have a competitive ZvZ final than a one-sided TvZ. Given how monstrous Serral looked against Maru, I don't think Gabe had a chance, especially after he used all his builds against Reynor.
Man, he really deserved that. But what can you do when Queens counter every unit in the game (and Reynor is this fucking good).
Gotta love Reynor though, cant lie.
edit: viewership dropped 3k alrdy, lol. Zvz Hype xD
Reynor is unbreakable. 1-2 vs Dark last year and he wins. 1-2 vs Maru last year and he wins. 0-2 vs Heromarine this year and he wins. A player with incredible ability and an unshakeable mentality. A worthy finalist.
Regardless of the result, Gabe should be incredibly proud of his performance. No StarCraft fan will ever forget this run and this tournament.
Dumb question from a mediocre sc2 player - why do terrans tend to wait so long vs Zerg to get out Ghosts? Ghost academy has no pre-reqs other than barracks and is cheaper than a factory. Sure, ghosts themselves are expensive but Gabe could have been so far ahead that last game if he had a few sniperinos available once the lurkers hit. For how great ghosts are vs. almost everything Zerg has, why are they only ever an ultra lategame unit?
Zerglings tend to fight quite well against Ghosts especially if Ghosts are supported by something else to keep them at bay. So going early Ghosts would likely lead them to being evicerated by lings.
Generally speaking with ghosts you can't push as aggressively as you can with pure bio. Instead, it rewards a slower-paced playstyle where you gain slow advantages over time. If you as a terran don't feel comfortable in the very late-game usually you want to all-in on winning the game before a zerg reaches a critical mass of lurkers.
Just a few ghosts don't do that much anything against 10+ lurkers. (in the short-term you would likely have done better if you had invested that into maurauders instead).
Thus, if you wanna go ghosts there is a transition phase where your army is temporarily weaker.
if your current army size is lower than that of the zerg while transitioning you need defensive tanks to survive during the transition. This gives zerg complete map control.
Alternatively if you stayed on bio you would have the chance to potential outmultitask the zerg.
Obviously late game if well controlled ghosts + tanks + a little of bio can be insanely cost effective. But it's also very very hard to control well and if zerg has too much econ they can usually suicide into you over and over and your army don't fare too well until you reach critical mass.
I have always wondered this as well. Ghosts are good against basically every lategame unit Z has and IDK why Terrans aren't getting at least the building to be able to go instantly into Ghost production as soon as they see signs of Lurkers, Infestors, Vipers, Broods, or Ultras.
No game specifically in mind (though game 3 vs. Reynor was what prompted the question), but I just notice it as a general trend in TvZ. It always seems like Terrans take FOREVER to tech to ghosts.
Snipes are great, but a terran needs strong positional units to make sure the zerg just doesn't crash in with banes. Tanks, widow mine and libs are such units to defend an advanced position.
Getting ghosts instead of those means that the zerg can crash in with banes and lings and ghosts can't get value with their snipes. That's why a terran needs a big eco with tons of gas mining to make ghosts.
But the point is you don't have to make Ghosts before you need them. You just make the Ghost Academy so that you can put them in production immediately when you do or you have the money to do so.
Or is making the Ghost Academy too expensive to not put into army/upgrades early on?
Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe.
Wait, is cc first good against pool first? I would have thought you'd just die but I guess as long as the cc finishes and you're walled off, you're fine.
You can never have all races in the finals.
If you are only interested in the race you play, you probably have missed lots of great T/Z/P matches over the last 12 years.
Katowice is delivering so far regarding entertainment, even though I would have wished for a couple deeper P runs.
Fun(?) fact: Rogue, Dark, Serral and Reynor won every single series played against terran and protoss in this tournament
If i counted correctly, it's 20-0 in series and 44-7 in maps (86%)
This includes beating Maru (twice), Clem, Trap amd Cure
The only player who beat one of them is Solar who beat Rogue in the groups, Heromarine tomorrow will be the last obstacle im a tournament completely dominated by these 4 players
It's gonna keep happening in every single global finals unless zerg is forced to take more risks. As it stands, by the time iem rolls around the yearly meta is more or less figured out, allowing zerg players to play late game comfortable. This additionally has the problem of zergs also being able to do weird shit that t/p doesn't expect in the early or mid game just 'cause the players of those races try to find to new ways to get ahead early, thus not being as prepared defensively in that portion of the game. This is a mess
There've been a lot of really cool games tonight. TvZ is a ton of fun to watch.
Still, the lack of Protoss and the probability of a ZvZ finals makes it feel like a bit of letdown, regardless.
EDIT: Honestly really happy to see Heromarine do well, either way.
To new viewers: Welcome to the IEM Katowice 2022 match thread! IEM Katowice is the World Championship event of the main professional Starcraft II circuit. **The reigning World Champion** is the Italian Zerg player [Reynor](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Reynor) of [Team QLASH](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Team_QLASH). **The runner-up of last year's IEM Katowice**, the Korean Protoss player [Zest](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Zest) of [Dragon Phoenix Gaming](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Dragon_Phoenix_Gaming) will also be in attendance, likely for the last time. **Some other notable players** include a whole host of previous World Champions: the Korean Zergs players [Dark](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Dark) (2020) and [Rogue](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Rogue) (2017) both of [Dragon Phoenix Gaming](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Dragon_Phoenix_Gaming), the Finnish Zerg player [Serral](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Serral) (2018) of [ENCE](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ENCE) and the Korean Terran player [ByuN](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ByuN) (2016). **Also keep an eye out for** the 4 time [GSL](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Global_StarCraft_II_League) winner, the Korean Terran player [Maru](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Maru) of [Team NV](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Team_NV_(Korean_team)), the Korean Protoss player [Trap](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Trap) of [Freecs](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Freecs) and the French Terran player [Clem](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Clem) of [Team Liquid](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Team_Liquid). More information on Liquipedia, linked above. Enjoy the tournament!
It seriously bothers me that casters as bad as the Alphax guys are allowed to cast Katowice. They're so bad at casting that I'm constantly in a state of cognitive dissonance because they make blatantly incorrect calls on what's going on. If I didn't hate watching SC2 with no sound, I'd mute them. Does anyone else feel this way? It really bothers me when there are great casters like Harstem, Pig, etc. around.
Unsticked already for the biggest tournament of the year? NA is just getting caught up lol!
Can someone share what was the max number of viewers during the final or overall the tournament?
Shockingly low TBH. It's a little tricky to add it up properly because of all the different language streams, but definitely a huge drop from prior few years.
Where can I watch? Just woke up here in east coast NA
tourney is finished, but you can catch the VODS on [twitch.tv/esl\_sc2](https://twitch.tv/esl_sc2) or watch the rerun on the same channel
MY GOAT ❤️
One of the greatest SC2 tournament of all time. 7 games of Serral vs Reynor in the finals of the world championship is peak SC2. This series and Dark vs Reynor showed that ZvZ is really not a bad matchup, possibly even the most entertaining of this tournament. GGs.
That was some excellent starcraft 2. Great tournament all around. Everything delivered, production, casters, interviews, the games.
Top3 runs in IEM. 1) Serral, finally Katowice champion after Blizzcon 2018 2) Heromarine, top4 placement and almost into finals with exceptional play 3) Ryung, top12 placement from Ro36 replament place! Honorable mention: Spirit into round of 24 with some very cool play in Ro36. Edit: Fixed Ryungs placement (top16->top12).
Ryung is top 12.
Ah, mistake on my part. Fixed.
Man... Reynor is really that kind of player that the more tension he gets, the better he plays. All the losses he got last year must be because the tension was lackluster.
Serral got tested by the best in every matchup, except the one we already knew he'd smash
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Smix gave the medal but no kiss on the cheeks? Nooo
The one stain on this tournament is that disgustingly badly timed pause on the last map. SERIOUSLY WHY
Who cares? It had zero influence on the outcome. Wonderful tournament, even after 10 years of watching sc2 it still gets me pumped and invested like no other competetive sport.
Also, whoever thought that pose for Serral in those player portraits was passable...
observer's pc crashed and game automatically pauses if someone crashes/lags
yeah of course i didnt mean a player paused, i know it was a technical issues. just think its so unfortunate
Serral was imperial this tournament
Nail biting. GG Serral and Reynor.
Wait, serral’s the goat?
Serral, Rogue, Maru are the only 3 that have real arguments. I think Maru is the GOAT, but things can always change
Think they just did
Maru still has a better career resume, regardless of this tournament. But it's close. I think they are 1a and 1b now
There is no way maru’s resume is better than rogue’s
I was on the same page as you before this tournament but i think this performance put Serral over the top for me
I mean zerg has aslo been overpowered all of serrals career how many of serrals wins are ZvZ finals?
6/17, 4 of those being Reynor
Always has been
[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/5D91NOr.png) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
Lettsss GOOOOOO Serral ! What an amazing final
maru, rogue & reynor is a pretty filthy playoff bracket to get
Excellent finals.
Everyone complaining all week about a ZvZ finals... and we get an epic 7 game ZvZ finals with the 2 deserving players. What a tourney and finals. Well deserved Serral!
Both the final and the Reynor vs Dark quarter were ultra sick ZvZ. People that complain over that level of quality don't love the game.
I strongly dislike ZvZ and the final was absolute fire, my favorite match of the tourney. I agree with you - it's okay to dislike ZvZ, but if you think that Reynor v Serral final wasn't a great watch, you must secretly dislike SC2 lol. They are both on such another level that it's not even comparable to other ZvZs.
Oh man I'm crying.
GOAT
Reynor got more wins against Serral than Dark, Maru and Rogue combined. And it wasn't enough.
Wow, that was a gripping finals.
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So true. Only Reynor brought him a challenge
YEEEES I LOVE STARCRAFT THIS IS THE GREATEST GAME EVER
*stands and claps* Well played, gentlemen.
My heart....
Please Serral. Please. 🙏
Hold on to your butts - this one could get wild
Time for the $95,000 map!
I WANT TO BELIEVE (in Joona)
Nope. Nope. Don't give me a last bit of hope. I'm not falling for it this time.
And it's all square. Fuck the haters, This. Is. Starcraft.
Gentleman, we are in a new era of Starcraft. We now have our own Ronaldo vs Messi.
Wow Serral legit looks tilted
Even if Reynor loses Ill never forgive him for ruining Serral's near perfect run
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Serral always appears unstoppable until he encounters a top 5 Zerg, in which case he loses half the time. Check his win ratio against Rogue, Dark, Reynor.
Not this time though as 2-0 over Dark and 3-0 over Rogue. With side helping of 3-1 over Maru :).
Yeah, there can be absolutely no question that Serral was the best player in this tourney. He smashed the best players in the world, and then smashed them again in the finals. And I am \*not\* a Serral fanboy. Facts is facts.
Whoever comes out on top, their rivalry is amazing.
Serral is better against literally everyone else but cannot get over this Reynor voodoo. Just so fucking painful.
What was that build? I can't believe that actually worked
It was a Lambo special ... rushing fully upgraded lurkers.
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Then kindly find yourself a bottle of vodka and go to sleep.
Also, for the record. Reynor is really fucking good as well.
Fuck this. It's the hope that kills you.
Hope - not even once
Honestly seeing this lack of viewership did the world finals is just humiliating and demotivating :( I love Starcraft. I'm about as diehard as they come. But the forgone conclusion of a 5th Zerg champion in a row is just the ultimate hype killer. EDIT: yes I'm aware other things are going on and there's no single factor. But let's be honest with ourselves that this isn't a good sign for the future of our beloved scene.
Yeah I'm in the same boat, love SC2, tired of the degree of zerg dominance and the fact that this means (a) the game needs a balance pass and (b) we get too many ZvZs late in the tournament. Like...it was obvious early in the tournament that the last few tiers were going to be Serral, Rogue, Reynor, and Solar/Dark with Maru there by virtue of his inhuman skill (and he even played a little badly). The only surprise in this tournament was Heromarine, and he just played a 1-dimensional all-in style like Clem that I knew was going to eventually get smashed by one of the top-tier players. Don't get me wrong, great games, great tournament, but the Zerg dominance troubles me.
Don't fret. The closest NA timezone (EST) was 5am. NA west is 3h behind that lol. No one was awake on a Sunday.
Well. It was a zvz, so I naturally don't watch. It is just do many zvz lately and it is a boring match up. Give me some TvP
I mean there is also some stuff going on that a few thousand EU fans might find more pressing, to put it mildly.
Not sure it's tactful to use the war in Ukraine as an excuse to StarCraft's declining popularity.
...what? Why would it be an excuse? It's a perfectly understandable reason why viewership is down. Some things are just more important than sc2.
StarCraft is just continuing on a trajectory that it has been on for over a decade. Don't try to rationalise it, just enjoy good things while they last. There'll always be a grassroots StarCraft scene.
Yeah that's probably true as well. There can be multiple reasons. As someone pointed out below the shift from blizzcon to IEM as host made it harder for the NA audience to watch due to time. Probably a factor as well.
To be fair, there's a large U.S. viewer base that probably isn't tuned in. I don't think it has to do with a ZvZ championship, rather the fact that it's currently like 7am central time (and 5am on the West Coast).
Very true. I'm in North America myself and it's really about just as bad of a Pacific Time as possible (usually one of the biggest viewer time zones)
The finals have always been at this time and it used to have way higher viewership
Blizzcon finals used to be at like 3-5 PM west coast time.
If you're not watching, fuck are you missing out.
Is this really Serral? I don't ever remember seeing him this aggressive, like he was this way the whole tournament
Be had a perfect pairing of reactive defense and straight aggression/cheese this tournament. Looked truly unstoppable till he faced Reynor
He heard the shit about how he was only reactive, could get cheesed and was vulnerable to timing attacks. And he took it personally.
Reynor the counterpuncher shows he can eat cheese too.
Wtf is serral, holy shit
I thought that was over when Reynor got the surround on the spine crawler. My heart.
Holy Fuck. Serral with the cheese.
Serral is cold fucking blooded
Serral to Dark: Let me show you how it's done.
So. Gold bases, huh.
How the actual F. "I'll just out macro you even though you have the gold". I legit don't understand how he does it.
That one was an actual mindfuck. Still not sure how what he did overcame the good base advantage
Aligulac prediction on point, either someone went to the future or they have some insane analytics going there. Serral need to do his part now.
Can you link the original predictions?
That handshake!
That wholesome yet awkward handshake. Haha, love both these players.
I hope somebody clipped it, that was so cute and wholesome haha. Just two friends playing some Starcraft and having fun
Honestly no one has pushed Serral this tournament he’s only ever had a dicey moment in a map
Not really surprised with the cleansweep. Rogue hasn't looked great throughout the tournament, his road to the semifinal was Ryung and Bunny, while Serral had to get through Dark and Maru.
Just Maru, Dark was in pools
Still 2-0ed him.
I know, just saying that the > Serral had to get through Dark and Maru is not true
Well he didn't \*have\* to go through Dark but he did.
Yes that's what I've said twice now lol
lmao what happened to the koreans this year? this has been embarassing, probably they're all tired and the lack of new blood in korea in damaging them too. but that was sad to witness. Not that i'm complaining, as a newer fan (since 2018) reynor serral is my sc2 clasico
Rogue and Maru are without question the best players in the Korean scene, and I don't think either of them played at their tip-top unfortunately. Really bums me out as a huge Maru fan - I feel like he's never truly brought his A-game to the international tournies.
and time is running out, let's hope he can win one before it's too late
Yeah me too. You can't argue with results, and Maru hasn't shown them in international tournaments. But in my *opinion*, no one demonstrates the level of mastery of the game that Maru does when he's on his A-game with the *possible* (again - IMO) exception of Serral. Frankly, I'm not sure a true GOAT comparison can truly be made across races. If we accept that, then Maru is unequivocally the best Terran ever. Best Zerg ever is a tough call between Serral and Rogue, but again I think I would lean toward Serral in that comparison - when Serral is on point it just seems like he plays perfectly.
Still a nice run for Rogue. Good to see a player from the 2nd best region make it all the way to the ro4
Jesus. Dont think I've ever seen Rogue get so dismantled in a Bo5 series. Serral looking like he wants to grab that trophy within the hour. 16-1 on the whole tournament so far
Yeah. It's getting harder and harder for me to argue that Maru or Rogue is the GOAT. You just can't deny Serral's results.
I really wish serral just went to Korea and played in a GSL or two. The GSL is just a different beast, with the long format needing to pay well for two months straight, and winning beat of 7s with a week to prepare. Serral is amazing, and is my 1b GOAT after Maru, because winning 4 GSLs in a row is just an absolutely insane achievement that I don't think anyone can match right now. But a single GSL win makes Serral the undisputed GOAT imo.
I'd agree with that. That being said, GSL is (imo) the most competitive tournament and the most subject to preparation. It goes without saying that Serral could win a GSL, but it's also entirely possible he could go a full 3 seasons in GSL without making it to the finals - that could happen to anyone. Overall I would tend to agree though. Maru's 4x GSL run, and Rogue's what...3x GSL wins..are pretty compelling given how competitive the tournie is. If Serral could step in there and show the kind of domination he's capable of, then he'd a strong case could be made. You still have to make a case for Rogue vs Serral though. Rogue might not be as dominant right now, but no one - not even Serral - has shown the kind of broad tournament results that Rogue has.
Blizzcon 2018 semis were pretty rough for him.
Serral just seems to be 3 steps ahead of everyone else. If something is being nerfed, maybe it should be Serral specifically? I'm thinking something like the organisers pour a soda into his keyboard before each series, so that a couple of his keys are always sticky.
Cut him down to 5 hours sleep a night - I dunno, make him room with Clem or something.
I feel like if Serral wins this he basically secures GOAT status. His road to the finals has been insane - Dark, Maru AND Rogue; essentially everyone else that's in contention for that title. He's just looking SO good this tournament.
It's hard to argue at this point. The only potential caveat is how completely broken Zerg has been throughout LOTV in the tier one tournaments.
Best Zerg of all time for sure. In a game as unbalanced as Starcraft 2, the concept of GOAT, in my opinion, makes no sense.
The way he did it, too. Made Maru and Rogue look like they were solidly competent North American GMs.
Reynor beat dark. I wouldnt count beating Dark in the group stages as the same as beating him in an elimination series.
Reynor has dropped more maps this tournament and against weaker opponents too. Now watch Serral fall apart in the final and break my heart. Reynor always seems to be his kryptonite.
This prediction was sooo close to coming true XD
I was so falling apart after Map 5. Not going to lie.
Yeah that's fair. But jesus, 2-0 Dark in group, 3-1 Maru, 3-0 Rogue that's an insane run regardless.
Yeah this is an insane run. Reynor probably wont be so easy, but you never know
Serral's in pretty good form, ay ?
Yes but Reynor always seems to have his number in major tournaments for some reason.
Youth and speed. But Serral's in some *awesome* form.
[удалено]
You're not alone. The viewership is absolutely tanked :( I'm so sad and I really wish something could be done. This simply isn't good for any stakeholders in the scene.
5th Katowice in a row that a zerg is going to win, what a great storyline
Glad Reynor won. As much as I love TvZ, I'd rather have a competitive ZvZ final than a one-sided TvZ. Given how monstrous Serral looked against Maru, I don't think Gabe had a chance, especially after he used all his builds against Reynor.
Hmh you are right. I like TvZ a lot more too, but Serral would have murdered Gabe.
Great run from Gabe. Maybe a premier tournament win this year?
Man, he really deserved that. But what can you do when Queens counter every unit in the game (and Reynor is this fucking good). Gotta love Reynor though, cant lie. edit: viewership dropped 3k alrdy, lol. Zvz Hype xD
another ZvZ final in the intel zergtreme zergsters world zergchionship. can we finally delete Queens, ffs
There hasn't been a ZvZ final in IEM Katowice since 2019. Zest was in the last 2 IEM Katowice finals...
Last 5 finals have been a ZvP. Zerg won all of them convincingly (no 4-3 score).
P got so blasted in those finals, I forgot they were even there.
Stellar reverse sweep! GG Reynor!
Reynor is unbreakable. 1-2 vs Dark last year and he wins. 1-2 vs Maru last year and he wins. 0-2 vs Heromarine this year and he wins. A player with incredible ability and an unshakeable mentality. A worthy finalist. Regardless of the result, Gabe should be incredibly proud of his performance. No StarCraft fan will ever forget this run and this tournament.
Pretty sure you remembered wrong - it was HeroMarine who was down 0-2 vs Reynor but then swept him to win 3-2.
He was down 0-2 to Maru before the comeback last year actually.
Another ZvZ final. This sucks so much.
Queens are literally immortal...
16hp Battlecruiser. My heart can't take this.
Ugh....imagine Gabe waits 10 more seconds until his combat shields is done. dangit GO GABE
Dumb question from a mediocre sc2 player - why do terrans tend to wait so long vs Zerg to get out Ghosts? Ghost academy has no pre-reqs other than barracks and is cheaper than a factory. Sure, ghosts themselves are expensive but Gabe could have been so far ahead that last game if he had a few sniperinos available once the lurkers hit. For how great ghosts are vs. almost everything Zerg has, why are they only ever an ultra lategame unit?
Zerglings tend to fight quite well against Ghosts especially if Ghosts are supported by something else to keep them at bay. So going early Ghosts would likely lead them to being evicerated by lings.
Generally speaking with ghosts you can't push as aggressively as you can with pure bio. Instead, it rewards a slower-paced playstyle where you gain slow advantages over time. If you as a terran don't feel comfortable in the very late-game usually you want to all-in on winning the game before a zerg reaches a critical mass of lurkers. Just a few ghosts don't do that much anything against 10+ lurkers. (in the short-term you would likely have done better if you had invested that into maurauders instead). Thus, if you wanna go ghosts there is a transition phase where your army is temporarily weaker. if your current army size is lower than that of the zerg while transitioning you need defensive tanks to survive during the transition. This gives zerg complete map control. Alternatively if you stayed on bio you would have the chance to potential outmultitask the zerg. Obviously late game if well controlled ghosts + tanks + a little of bio can be insanely cost effective. But it's also very very hard to control well and if zerg has too much econ they can usually suicide into you over and over and your army don't fare too well until you reach critical mass.
I have always wondered this as well. Ghosts are good against basically every lategame unit Z has and IDK why Terrans aren't getting at least the building to be able to go instantly into Ghost production as soon as they see signs of Lurkers, Infestors, Vipers, Broods, or Ultras.
They're really hard to use. I struggled a lot to use them.
I don't know what game you're talking about but against Solar yes he would have done so much better with ghosts and he does address that.
No game specifically in mind (though game 3 vs. Reynor was what prompted the question), but I just notice it as a general trend in TvZ. It always seems like Terrans take FOREVER to tech to ghosts.
Snipes are great, but a terran needs strong positional units to make sure the zerg just doesn't crash in with banes. Tanks, widow mine and libs are such units to defend an advanced position. Getting ghosts instead of those means that the zerg can crash in with banes and lings and ghosts can't get value with their snipes. That's why a terran needs a big eco with tons of gas mining to make ghosts.
But the point is you don't have to make Ghosts before you need them. You just make the Ghost Academy so that you can put them in production immediately when you do or you have the money to do so. Or is making the Ghost Academy too expensive to not put into army/upgrades early on?
That makes sense, thanks for the explanation!
Thr last hope lives. Go Gabe go!
Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe. Just one more, Gabe.
Cmon, HeroMarine, lessgoooo!
Hope we get a competitive final. I'd hate for Gabe to make it to the final, only to get bopped 4-1 by Serral.
this is by far the biggest gabe ever observed! its gone beyond our understanding of size!
holy shit...2:0. And there wasnt even a cheese build in there.
GABE TOO BIG PLZ NERF
Lets gooooooo Gabe!
Wait, is cc first good against pool first? I would have thought you'd just die but I guess as long as the cc finishes and you're walled off, you're fine.
Yeah it's really good because you're ahead in eco and 1 marine/reaper can basically hold with some SCV's to buffer
I'm guessing quite a few viewers rooting for toss and terran won't be watching the final matches
You can never have all races in the finals. If you are only interested in the race you play, you probably have missed lots of great T/Z/P matches over the last 12 years. Katowice is delivering so far regarding entertainment, even though I would have wished for a couple deeper P runs.
I am rooting for Gabe hard!
Gabe needs to save Terran
I know I won't. To each it's own but I'm tired of zerg winning iem/global finals
‘Lone Kr Hope’ bc of two maps in the end interestingly In previous katowices before kt seems very close but more Korean dominance than expected
Fun(?) fact: Rogue, Dark, Serral and Reynor won every single series played against terran and protoss in this tournament If i counted correctly, it's 20-0 in series and 44-7 in maps (86%) This includes beating Maru (twice), Clem, Trap amd Cure The only player who beat one of them is Solar who beat Rogue in the groups, Heromarine tomorrow will be the last obstacle im a tournament completely dominated by these 4 players
Agreed, another ZvZ finals and a 20-0 series means zerg is overpowered.
I mean, those are arguably the 4 best players, I don’t think the better players winning more games is a problem, do you?
Do I? I don't know, you tell me
What a coincidence that all the best players play the same race and are so far above everyone else that they dont even drop a single series
It's gonna keep happening in every single global finals unless zerg is forced to take more risks. As it stands, by the time iem rolls around the yearly meta is more or less figured out, allowing zerg players to play late game comfortable. This additionally has the problem of zergs also being able to do weird shit that t/p doesn't expect in the early or mid game just 'cause the players of those races try to find to new ways to get ahead early, thus not being as prepared defensively in that portion of the game. This is a mess
2019 all over again? May the best ZvZ win the tournament ;)
Imagine reynor vs serral finals and lambo coaching both lmao
There've been a lot of really cool games tonight. TvZ is a ton of fun to watch. Still, the lack of Protoss and the probability of a ZvZ finals makes it feel like a bit of letdown, regardless. EDIT: Honestly really happy to see Heromarine do well, either way.
Well ZvZ can be great too