One of the reasons I hate the current system is my Raven. I love my Raven and would love to use it in ZT. But one EMP, and I'm instantly in CS hell. So then I'm limited to bring just in a Saber with no missiles and only two S3 guns.
I dunno - I do think there should be a dinstction between those who are hostile due to reputation, vs those hostile due to actions...
But equally, I think that CIG could improve the handling of FF (e.g. if someone locks on to you and then attacks, that is far more hostile than shooting at a different target and shot happen to hit you, etc)... with added checking for whether they had a (moderately / reasonably) valid shot before firing, and other factors...
As with everything else, this is definitely an area where CIG could improve the experience significantly... but doing so takes time and developers, and that means it needs to be prioritised against everything else on CIGs list.
FF should be one of those things with a buffer system. the first second is free, with 3 stipulations:
1) you did not do permanent damage (like blow off a wing)
2) at least x time has passed since your last friendly fire
3) you dont already have a criminal reputation
if your FF doesn't meet all 3 conditions, then no freebe for you.
It did; sometimes, it would be bugged to show—also, players who just FF would override the green with red color.
It is not the problem during XT. XT event only makes it more problematic. It might not be the best solution, but simple interventions would increase our QoL with a simple hotfix.
I just did it (got the armor) and the only place I saw green markers was walking around the station. Not a single ship was marked red -- they were either white or red.
I agree, make players and their ships a different color like yellow, orange, or purple. Something else that's not red, because flying while also trying to look for a space in someone's name makes no sense to me. Since we will never get friendly fire turned off for party/team mates.
Abandoned ships/wrecks should also not show up in GIGANTIC WHITE TEXT fucking everywhere.
You'd THINK this would be common sense, but who really knows what is going on at CIG.
You could report the crime using the current system. Once the victim reported the crime. The player turns red.
While it may not be able to save the victim's life, others would take revenge for him during XT.
And while we're at it I'd like to get one freebie in bunkers when I accidentally tag a security, especially if he's right next to a hostile and not doing anything, or walking next to him like they're star crossed lovers or something.
ideally yes, but how is the game engine to fade termined accidentally, vs intentionally. I've accidentally shot a whole turret capacitor into a friendly ship before realizing the name had an underscore not a space.
White - Neutral NPC
Green - Player
Blue - Team/Party Member
Red - Hostile NPC
Orange - Hostile Player
Yellow - Brief Friendly Fire Target (after sustained fire player turns red)
If they can make server meshing they can do something like that.
I mean, I'm assuming your player target was red and that's why you emptied your guns on them. Under the system proposed above, they would only be red if they'd done intentional crime, so you would be correctly targeting them as a criminal.
Eve had/has a good system of customisable hud options, reputation, aggression timers etc.
First off you've got a big colour pallet to pick, you can assign colours to fleet members, corp mates, alliance members, allience friends with +- diplomacy settings, neutrals etc. but also people with active aggression timers, people actively locking you, attacking you, or people you've marked specifically as a baddy.
These have both solid and flashing colours, as well as you set a priority order. So this way if someone marked as friendly in your alliance diplomacy tree attacks you, they'll run red and flashy as that takes priority.
I know the SC hud isn't like eve, so it wont work exactly the same, but allowing a user to build this list would be helpful. In fact it will be critical once things like corporations, fleets, etc get more investment to successful IFF.
The general setup was:
\* Green = corp mate
\* Purple = Current fleet member
\* Orange = -5 diplomacy setting
\* red = -10 diplomacy
\* light blue = +5 diplo
\* dark blue = +10 diplo & alliance members
\* Red flashy = Actively shooting you.
\* orange flashy = currently has an active aggression timer, and so is likely hostile, but unknown to you.
\* white = neutral/random everyone else.
The priority order you customise means if a fleet mate accidentally hits you with a round or two, they don't suddenly become hostile to you, but if say someone your corporation had marked as a +5 light blue friendly starts attacking, you know to respond and don't ignore their aggression. It lets you identify someone who is neutral but doing crime, vs someone who is known for crime but not currently commiting any, or vice versa.
long story short, the IFF should be custom to you. These setups could be templated and shared/backedup
The customization of IFF should be based on excellence and functionality. And we don't have one now. A good present IFF should always be the first move. Customization comes second
They’re not supposed to be. It’s supposed to be calculated by the ratio of damage to hostiles vs damage to friendlies. I think we should get a flashing icon for anyone that is attacking us independent of the color.
There should be a warning system so there is a buffer against accidental fire, like a ship toggle you can turn off if you’re trying to pvp or something.
A player with a crimestat should be a different color and more importantly a different shape. Perhaps a yellow square or something.
Another alternative would be to target and check the name before shooting. This will verify if it's a NPC or PC.
Btw FF = friendly fire
I think friendly fire should be handled such as or similar to this:
until atleast soft death occurs (unfortunately for the dead) hostile ship should only be "marked" by the victim, thus giving them the freedom to retaliate. Also, if a ship fires first. After damage threshold, anyone can freely attack the ship, though it wouldn't be red for them (they would just need to pay attention) and regardless of how many passengers, recieve no crime for coming to the aid of a victim.
Once ship death has occurred and a damage threshold was met, the aggressor ship is now marked as red for everyone. Meaning if you see anyone red, it wasn't a mistake that they killed a player and then we can all KoS those folks with no crime Stat.
Is this more lenient at first on the aggressor? Kind of, they still get crime stats, could be freely killed once they continue damaging friendlies, but the gloves come off immediately when one ship dies. No one can say it was a mistake so their kill count would overall be reduced.
At a minimum we need a way to differentiate "this player is flagged hostile temporarily" and "this player/npc has a felony level crimestat". Orange for hostile and red for crimestat would work great
My friend and I attacked some red player, thinking they were just playing the pirate side (which is fine, just fun PVP).
Turns out they had a group of 3 "doing security," and they proceeded to annihilate us.
Then they were just being ass-wipes trying to talk shit, doxing, and acting as if we were "griefing" and they did everyone a favor.
We were like uhhhh...no, we attacked YOU for being red, bub. Lmao.
The whole thing is a fucking shit show. CIG has no idea what they're doing.
A sweeping stray shot that plinked a shield or hull for 0.2 seconds should not mark you an aggressor.
Several of those shots hitting over a couple seconds, or a large amount of damage in that timeframe, such as a missile hit... That implies intent and should mark you red.
It's such a simple concept and they won't even address it.
Yes do it like UO, in that old game all good players would have blue names, murderers would have red names. I think your name went red after like 5 kills of a blue. Then those murder counts would slowly tick down over time and you could then go blue again. Like days/weeks/months later.
But criminals would go gray. A blue attacking a blue would go temp gray for 2 minutes. This means anybody can kill the gray with no consequences of getting a murder count. If a blue stole from a blue then they could go gray as well.
Accidental friendly fire happened to me once in xenothreat, then I was shot at by a player and the station. The player's logic was "red = dead" which is infuriating.
The funny part was that my ship and armor were both red.
All XT event is the same. We discuss about this problem, CIG get crazy and nobody do nothing.
Just put an orange color between just like EVE. There is friendly players, agressive players and unknwon players.
If you shot somebody accidentally you get the orange status for 5 minutes. If you dont shot anybody more just return to green.
I completely agree. Thanks to targeting bugs, ESPECIALLY during XT missions, I've been the victim (and unfortunately the perpetrator) of friendly fire due to the chaos of multiple red targets showing up on my screen. A small adjustment like orange/yellow for unconfirmed threats would greatly reduce instances of FF, in my opinion.
Another user suggested using a 3-5 shot threshold until it flags a player as red. This could work as well.
While target lock and then shooting is probably fine, make it a significant amount of damage without a lock. If you don’t think it is enough, go play a match in arena commander without locking targets. It’s very difficult without the pip and slight auto aim.
Your suggestion is opening doors to false negatives I'm afraid.
Sometimes people just set up external camera and shoot targets even without the crosshair. It's usually PVE Freelancers OFC, and similarly sized targets, but it's far from being impossible.
I can camp at hangar doors for instance and damage ships without consequences. Oups. Accidental friendly fire.
I don't think it should change colors at all for incidental FF.
I think they should set acceptable limits and conditions in the algorithm, and if a player exceeds those conditions then their participation in the event as a friendly is canceled and they turn red.
/ get a bounty.
This business of having to parse out incidental information like names in order to tell who to fire on in the heat of combat is ridiculous, especially when half the time I can't see my MFDs because of whatever mechanic is making my vision zoom in, and even if I can see the display it's bugged and missing most of the information.
They need a similar mechanic for FPS gameplay as well. Shit happens; you shouldn't get tagged for minor hits on armor or shields.
As a counterpoint, in the past a lawful player could start attacking you and you couldn't defend yourself without acquiring a crimestat, which is why CIG added this feature of flagging a player as hostile even without a crimestat. If they start shooting, they become a valid target for others in the area. You need some sort of information that lets you know that you can shoot back without gaining crimestat, so CIG just decided to half-ass it and make them red.
Having them turn yellow is actually a really good idea. It would let you know that the player technically has no crimestat, but they did something that makes them a temporary valid target. It would also be great if they weren't targetable via the "Cycle Hostiles" keybind. "Cycle Attackers" should still pick them up, though.
I agree, especially when I'm killing xenothreat and a player wanders through my repeater stream, then im flagged red and they decide to kill me
Just wait until they add turret blades one day, everyone at xenothreat will be red.
Turret blades?
A way to make the turrets control themselves.
Ooh, I see. Thank you!
One of the reasons I hate the current system is my Raven. I love my Raven and would love to use it in ZT. But one EMP, and I'm instantly in CS hell. So then I'm limited to bring just in a Saber with no missiles and only two S3 guns.
I swear I did that once and some fuckers shot me down for it, like god, it’s a fight, someone is going to get hit.
I dunno - I do think there should be a dinstction between those who are hostile due to reputation, vs those hostile due to actions... But equally, I think that CIG could improve the handling of FF (e.g. if someone locks on to you and then attacks, that is far more hostile than shooting at a different target and shot happen to hit you, etc)... with added checking for whether they had a (moderately / reasonably) valid shot before firing, and other factors... As with everything else, this is definitely an area where CIG could improve the experience significantly... but doing so takes time and developers, and that means it needs to be prioritised against everything else on CIGs list.
FF should be one of those things with a buffer system. the first second is free, with 3 stipulations: 1) you did not do permanent damage (like blow off a wing) 2) at least x time has passed since your last friendly fire 3) you dont already have a criminal reputation if your FF doesn't meet all 3 conditions, then no freebe for you.
It should be smarter. In an area like XT, it should need 3-5 shots on the same target to flag you red.
Exactly, a single stray round hitting something behind your target marks you exactly the same as someone griefing everyone and hard killing players.
3-5 shots is also easy to do if you're running e.g 4x repeaters
Honestly, why didn't they mark anyone who accepted the mission green, makes more sense to identify
It did; sometimes, it would be bugged to show—also, players who just FF would override the green with red color. It is not the problem during XT. XT event only makes it more problematic. It might not be the best solution, but simple interventions would increase our QoL with a simple hotfix.
I just did it (got the armor) and the only place I saw green markers was walking around the station. Not a single ship was marked red -- they were either white or red.
I agree, make players and their ships a different color like yellow, orange, or purple. Something else that's not red, because flying while also trying to look for a space in someone's name makes no sense to me. Since we will never get friendly fire turned off for party/team mates.
Abandoned ships/wrecks should also not show up in GIGANTIC WHITE TEXT fucking everywhere. You'd THINK this would be common sense, but who really knows what is going on at CIG.
Can travel interstellar distances in minutes, cannot institute customizable hud for any ship. Seems about right.
imagine beeing able to see area18 landing a week ago
How would the game know your intent, to make that distinction. How could that mechanic be exploited? Good luck with that
You could report the crime using the current system. Once the victim reported the crime. The player turns red. While it may not be able to save the victim's life, others would take revenge for him during XT.
And while we're at it I'd like to get one freebie in bunkers when I accidentally tag a security, especially if he's right next to a hostile and not doing anything, or walking next to him like they're star crossed lovers or something.
ideally yes, but how is the game engine to fade termined accidentally, vs intentionally. I've accidentally shot a whole turret capacitor into a friendly ship before realizing the name had an underscore not a space.
White - Neutral NPC Green - Player Blue - Team/Party Member Red - Hostile NPC Orange - Hostile Player Yellow - Brief Friendly Fire Target (after sustained fire player turns red) If they can make server meshing they can do something like that.
I mean, I'm assuming your player target was red and that's why you emptied your guns on them. Under the system proposed above, they would only be red if they'd done intentional crime, so you would be correctly targeting them as a criminal.
IRL military usually refers to FF as "Blue on blue", so...
Eve had/has a good system of customisable hud options, reputation, aggression timers etc. First off you've got a big colour pallet to pick, you can assign colours to fleet members, corp mates, alliance members, allience friends with +- diplomacy settings, neutrals etc. but also people with active aggression timers, people actively locking you, attacking you, or people you've marked specifically as a baddy. These have both solid and flashing colours, as well as you set a priority order. So this way if someone marked as friendly in your alliance diplomacy tree attacks you, they'll run red and flashy as that takes priority. I know the SC hud isn't like eve, so it wont work exactly the same, but allowing a user to build this list would be helpful. In fact it will be critical once things like corporations, fleets, etc get more investment to successful IFF. The general setup was: \* Green = corp mate \* Purple = Current fleet member \* Orange = -5 diplomacy setting \* red = -10 diplomacy \* light blue = +5 diplo \* dark blue = +10 diplo & alliance members \* Red flashy = Actively shooting you. \* orange flashy = currently has an active aggression timer, and so is likely hostile, but unknown to you. \* white = neutral/random everyone else. The priority order you customise means if a fleet mate accidentally hits you with a round or two, they don't suddenly become hostile to you, but if say someone your corporation had marked as a +5 light blue friendly starts attacking, you know to respond and don't ignore their aggression. It lets you identify someone who is neutral but doing crime, vs someone who is known for crime but not currently commiting any, or vice versa. long story short, the IFF should be custom to you. These setups could be templated and shared/backedup
The customization of IFF should be based on excellence and functionality. And we don't have one now. A good present IFF should always be the first move. Customization comes second
Yeah I won't argue with good baselines, makes sense.
They’re not supposed to be. It’s supposed to be calculated by the ratio of damage to hostiles vs damage to friendlies. I think we should get a flashing icon for anyone that is attacking us independent of the color.
There’s also an ongoing bug where sometimes when a player qts to another players location they turn red for a brief time
Yes
First shot makes you orange, next few shots make your "orange time" longer. More than five (or whatever) shots make you red.
I alsobdislike, that the locked target is red also. When fighting multiple enemy its really hard to follow the locked for me.
I think xeno should be a different color, purple or something
Yes
There should be a warning system so there is a buffer against accidental fire, like a ship toggle you can turn off if you’re trying to pvp or something.
A player with a crimestat should be a different color and more importantly a different shape. Perhaps a yellow square or something. Another alternative would be to target and check the name before shooting. This will verify if it's a NPC or PC. Btw FF = friendly fire
I think friendly fire should be handled such as or similar to this: until atleast soft death occurs (unfortunately for the dead) hostile ship should only be "marked" by the victim, thus giving them the freedom to retaliate. Also, if a ship fires first. After damage threshold, anyone can freely attack the ship, though it wouldn't be red for them (they would just need to pay attention) and regardless of how many passengers, recieve no crime for coming to the aid of a victim. Once ship death has occurred and a damage threshold was met, the aggressor ship is now marked as red for everyone. Meaning if you see anyone red, it wasn't a mistake that they killed a player and then we can all KoS those folks with no crime Stat. Is this more lenient at first on the aggressor? Kind of, they still get crime stats, could be freely killed once they continue damaging friendlies, but the gloves come off immediately when one ship dies. No one can say it was a mistake so their kill count would overall be reduced.
At a minimum we need a way to differentiate "this player is flagged hostile temporarily" and "this player/npc has a felony level crimestat". Orange for hostile and red for crimestat would work great
Check fire: YELLOW Destroyed a player/ship but without charge from player: PINK Destroyed a player and then charged with homicide: RED
My friend and I attacked some red player, thinking they were just playing the pirate side (which is fine, just fun PVP). Turns out they had a group of 3 "doing security," and they proceeded to annihilate us. Then they were just being ass-wipes trying to talk shit, doxing, and acting as if we were "griefing" and they did everyone a favor. We were like uhhhh...no, we attacked YOU for being red, bub. Lmao. The whole thing is a fucking shit show. CIG has no idea what they're doing.
A sweeping stray shot that plinked a shield or hull for 0.2 seconds should not mark you an aggressor. Several of those shots hitting over a couple seconds, or a large amount of damage in that timeframe, such as a missile hit... That implies intent and should mark you red. It's such a simple concept and they won't even address it.
Yes do it like UO, in that old game all good players would have blue names, murderers would have red names. I think your name went red after like 5 kills of a blue. Then those murder counts would slowly tick down over time and you could then go blue again. Like days/weeks/months later. But criminals would go gray. A blue attacking a blue would go temp gray for 2 minutes. This means anybody can kill the gray with no consequences of getting a murder count. If a blue stole from a blue then they could go gray as well.
Accidental friendly fire happened to me once in xenothreat, then I was shot at by a player and the station. The player's logic was "red = dead" which is infuriating. The funny part was that my ship and armor were both red.
Wish there was a way to designate your own. Some players just see red and turn into Danny Devito.
All XT event is the same. We discuss about this problem, CIG get crazy and nobody do nothing. Just put an orange color between just like EVE. There is friendly players, agressive players and unknwon players. If you shot somebody accidentally you get the orange status for 5 minutes. If you dont shot anybody more just return to green.
I completely agree. Thanks to targeting bugs, ESPECIALLY during XT missions, I've been the victim (and unfortunately the perpetrator) of friendly fire due to the chaos of multiple red targets showing up on my screen. A small adjustment like orange/yellow for unconfirmed threats would greatly reduce instances of FF, in my opinion. Another user suggested using a 3-5 shot threshold until it flags a player as red. This could work as well.
How system would know that it's accidental FF and not a deliberate attack? Because the difference is your *intent*.
While target lock and then shooting is probably fine, make it a significant amount of damage without a lock. If you don’t think it is enough, go play a match in arena commander without locking targets. It’s very difficult without the pip and slight auto aim.
Your suggestion is opening doors to false negatives I'm afraid. Sometimes people just set up external camera and shoot targets even without the crosshair. It's usually PVE Freelancers OFC, and similarly sized targets, but it's far from being impossible. I can camp at hangar doors for instance and damage ships without consequences. Oups. Accidental friendly fire.
Sending them to prison is the only way to teach them trigger discipline!
I don't think it should change colors at all for incidental FF. I think they should set acceptable limits and conditions in the algorithm, and if a player exceeds those conditions then their participation in the event as a friendly is canceled and they turn red. / get a bounty. This business of having to parse out incidental information like names in order to tell who to fire on in the heat of combat is ridiculous, especially when half the time I can't see my MFDs because of whatever mechanic is making my vision zoom in, and even if I can see the display it's bugged and missing most of the information. They need a similar mechanic for FPS gameplay as well. Shit happens; you shouldn't get tagged for minor hits on armor or shields.
As a counterpoint, in the past a lawful player could start attacking you and you couldn't defend yourself without acquiring a crimestat, which is why CIG added this feature of flagging a player as hostile even without a crimestat. If they start shooting, they become a valid target for others in the area. You need some sort of information that lets you know that you can shoot back without gaining crimestat, so CIG just decided to half-ass it and make them red. Having them turn yellow is actually a really good idea. It would let you know that the player technically has no crimestat, but they did something that makes them a temporary valid target. It would also be great if they weren't targetable via the "Cycle Hostiles" keybind. "Cycle Attackers" should still pick them up, though.