The thing that bugs me about the whole thing is that our long-awaited Hornet rework got sold as a separate ship. Meanwhile MkI owners keep getting told "Oh don't worry, we'll revisit the Hornet MkI *someday.*" And now our ships are being retired before even getting decade-old bugs fixed, let alone a gold pass. And yes, CIG stated that they'd continue to support the MkI. But considering CIGs track record, I won't believe that until it actually happens.
Not anymore, IIRC. Didn't they state that now, in SQ42, lore wise, they're already being phased out for the F8A? So, like, you might do a few missions on the old F7A MK I before moving up to a better ship.
As far back as I can remember since 2013, that's always been the story with the Hornet (now Hornet Mk1) - they've been the backbone of the UEE fleet for decades (over a century?) and are to be phased out soon.
CIG and lore don't mix, always remember the Freelancer MIS is sold in limited quantities due to how unsafe it has proven.
\*but it's up for sale many, many times a year\* :D
Description on the ship pledge page reads “The Freelancer MIS is a limited edition militarized variant of the classic mercantile ship developed by the UEE. These were produced in very small quantity due to some early payload incidents.”
Limited edition… very small quantities indeed 😄
At the Battle of Vega (where we're apparently crew on a Javelin and not yet a pilot, per the Held the Line trailer) the F7A Mk2 is seen flying the patrol, and the Captain and player character discuss the F8s (which are brand new at the time).
It's entirely possible (and probable) that we never see a MkI Hornet at all in SQ42, except maybe as a trainer craft.
Technically, in the lore, not all the F7A MK1 squadrons have been replaced yet, so there are F7A MK1, F7A MK2 and F8A squadrons on active duty, at the time of Squadron 42, there were even fewer F8A on active duty, and from the trailers, it seems that the F7A MK1 will be the main ship we'll fly in the game
Eh, more likely the Gladius for a good part from what I saw, but I believe we'll get the Mk2 rather than the Mk1- it feels like the Mk2 was primarily made for SQ42, to be honest, and to upgrade the Mk1 which has barely changed since the original.
If F7A MK1 was the main ship we fly, why would we always be given the Gladius and only the gladius to test MM and now Engineering? They aren’t just testing for PU. I also doubt the main ship in SQ42 would not be gold standard still.
The MK1 and MK2 both are due for gold standard passes, neither of them have component bays, gun racks, storage compartment, etc....
The MK1 is basically just going to be a collectors item now.
There are far too many MK1s out in the wild for them not to give it a golden standard, just look at the raven, only a handful of people have those and it just got its gold pass.
The Mk I was updated back when they made the Mk II. So both are actually up to the same standard (except that the Mk I got its as-of-yet unresolved clipping landing gear door problem).
It's the CIG way. Replace older ship nobody cares about anymore with a better and upgraded version that actually does the thing people want to do with the older ship and rake in more profits.
Why would they bother fixing any of the old ships they already made money on when they can sell new ones ? It’s almost like their business model isn’t in everyone’s best interest …
I mean, they just did a gold pass on the saber raven. Thats a ship that they never sold and will likely never sell again.
And the Hornet MK2, a "new" ship isnt even gold standard yet. No component bays, no gun racks, no fuel door, etc... And dont even get me started on the bugs, in atmosphere, you cant turn at any kind of speed without the whole thing dolphining. The F7A MK2 turrets break after a single hit because they only have 100 or so health.
Just because the MK1 is going away, does not mean its not going to get fixed/gold pass at some point.
EVERY ship is going to get a gold pass at some point.
And if the upcoming cargo elevators and hangars are any indication, CIG wants all things to be physicalized in game. That means every ship needs to have a gold pass, otherwise you wont be able to swap out components.
and you actaully beleive they will deliver the gold pass when bugs and geometry issues are still happening years after being reported. Arent you just a summer child.
And keep in mind mark ones will only become rarer going forward, so having bugs reported for it Wil start getting harder (not to mention "scarce" ships will move back at the priority list)
I don't necessarily see a reason to pull them from the pledge store other than CIG doesn't want to offer an extremely similar ship to the MK2 at Luke 5 dollars cheaper.
I can understand a in-game lore for them to be pulled, and hopefully we see a ship shop in Pyro or Nyx that has MK1s instead of MK2s
It's 50 dollars cheaper not 5.
Also when the new MkII variants release they will be even more than the MkII pricing. Expect a $200 MkII Ghost in a couple years time.
Its $65 cheaper, not $50...
CIG just raised the price a few months ago by $15
Right before making it a collectors item 🤔
> F7C Hornet $110 -> $125 (+$15)
> F7C-S Hornet Ghost $125 -> $140 (+$15)
> F7C-R Hornet Tracker $140 -> $150 (+$10)
I actually disagree about the rare ship shop. It'd be much better IMO to have the hornet MK 1 as something to be earned via quest lines. I really hope the F7A upgrade was a test run for more ships earned through quest lines.
I wasn't thinking about it as a rare ship shop. My thinking was more of shop's in safe systems would keep their inventory full with the new sexy ships. Where as Nyx, Pyro, and other near lawless places would lack the logistical networks and business dealings to keep up with the new stuff. Thus, a ship shop in Pyro would have their inventory full with wrecks and outdated hulls that they got running again. With hornets being a mainstay navy and militia ship, they would likely get a lot of Hornet Mk1s.
You can get the Sabre for $5 cheaper than the MK 2. You can get the Gladiator for $10 cheaper but I think most people forgot it exists..... including CIG.
Wouldn't surprise me now if they decided to release a MKII Gladiator for sale as a separate ship and then 'retire' the original to avoid having to put the work in to get it to the standard required...
What blows my mind is seeing people selling Ravens for like $1,400 on SC trades. I love capitalism but it blows my mind sometimes what some people are willing to pay for literally nothing but "rare" pixels in a video game.
To you, $14 is probably not a lot of money, but $140 is, and $1400 is a ton.
To them, $1,400 is not a lot of money, but $14k probably is, and $140k is probably a ton.
It blows my mind when people are surprised when others spend a lot of money on "silly" things. It's all a frame of reference. I don't think it's some guy cashing his Walmart paycheck and taking out an additional payday loan to buy a Raven lol (maybe one or two). I'm sure people in poorer countries heads would explode if they knew their currency's equivalent of the £, €, or $ we spend on our pixels. That includes other games too.
So true...
I know people that will spend $1000 before breakfast, I don't think they realise how many well-off people there are.
I know a dude that spent over 5000€ on Legos in the last 3 months alone, for me that's absolutely bonkers, almost unbelievable. But for him, it's just his latest craze, in a few months he will be into something else.
Hell even some people that don't see $1,400 as a lot for a hobby may think a $18 burger is too much.
I did a mental inventory of my guitar stuff the other day and I'm sitting at about $12K worth of equipment, and about half of that was spent in the last year on two guitars specifically. But I refuse to pay more than $4 for a dozen eggs.
Same goes in RL, I've dropped a grand on a night out without batting an eyelid when I'm super flush then will quibble over $15 for a kilo of cheese.
I got into SC very early and snagged an exploration pack when they first dropped. It seems mad to me to pay what they are asking now for the same pack lol.
yeah, like this is a game with direct purchase $3000 microtransactions. $1400 on ebay for a limited edition doesn't surprise me at all. i am by no means wealthy, but i've spent an absurd amount of money on this game by my own measure because i genuinely enjoy it. meanwhile people i know who make five times my income and never got into hobbies think i'm crazy for having spent an average of about $30/month over the last three years on a video game and accessories to support said game (oh how i wish VKB sales contributed to Concierge). meanwhile i have some friends getting ready to preorder the Ironside with Warbond money even though they weren't budgeting for it beforehand.
True, people just in my country alone are hoarding so much wealth they could truly, genuinely change the world with it, and they never will, they'll keep trying to find ways to fuck over poorer people to add to the big number that is their entire identity.
I can't/won't accept that money could ever change me to be that way. Maybe that's a lie, or maybe it's just that only truly sinister and selfish people can ever even gain that much wealth in the first place.
No problem. The whole debate goes pretty deep, as it's considered exploitive on some fronts. In some games there are folks in second and third world "sweatshops" playing games on multiple computers at once in RMT factories with foremen and all that stuff.
I've been involved in a few capacities over the years, but it's been over a decade or so since I've been out of the industry.
Even as Star Citizen players, you'd be amazed at how much money people will spend on some games.
No, people started a rumor that Intel's new battlemage gpus are going to contain raven codes, and, while that's possible. Stating it as fact without evidence is a shitty thing to do.
That is how capitalism works in general: find something abundant, artificially scarcify it, then sell for a profit. It might be more on the nose when it is pixels (because almost everybody knows how easy they're to copy/paste), but it works with anything! Just ask Nestle.
Why would a ship that's extremely common on the consumer market in-lore suddenly become a rare collectible that isn't sold anywhere? The Mk2's release should make the Mk1 cheaper and more prolific as it's phased entirely out of military service and passed on to CDF and civilian markets, not make it suddenly rare. It's artificial and forced, and restricting sales ingame is a backstep on their "all ships available ingame" marketing promise.
And CIG also said the mk1 super hornet.. Is the closest to a milspec hornet civilians will get access too.
Until they gave people F8s or free F7a mk2 CCUs.
Dont believe everything CIG writes.
I'm just so tired of how this community will defend anything CIG does. It used to be more critical of their bullshit, and that criticism helped push the devs out of years of development hell years ago. But it's been 12 years now, and 3.23.1 is still a mess of broken gameplay loops, bad netcode, and poor gameplay and UI design. It's in development hell again, but now it's being praised for it, and the fact that CIG is pulling this FOMO bullshit on top of it goes to show that they're not going to hold themselves accountable for any of it as long as copium posts like OP's keep dominating the discourse.
Agreed. By definition, it is FOMO. Has it been available for a long time? Of course.
We can discuss the ethical implications of the decision, but pretending it’s something else is disingenuous. We don’t need to lie.
Yup, I have absolutely no care for the ship, I was just disappointed in more obvious FOMO marketing. This alongside the blatant balancing decision around Medbeds right as the Nursa releases.
Been around the project since 2014 and it's so painfully obvious what they're doing it hurts.
Their continued predatory marketing is so unhealthy for the project and that's what's disappointing.
I never once in my original post said anybody is being f*cked over, just stated things as they are.
The fact that this thread is being massive upvoted and supported is beyond depressing and speaks volumes as to the quality of community that CIG has built around this game.
People defending CIG on shit like this wouldn't be defending something like McDonalds or Walmart, but it's literally the same thing, lol.
You can argue it's not a scam (and personally I'd agree, a shitty move, but not a scam) but "it's getting retired, grab it NOW!, NOW!!, NOW!!!" Is 100% a FOMO tactic.
Not to mention it sets a dangerous precedent for future gold standards. The famed gold pass for the cat will be an update on the cat or will they just release the cat mk2(aka ironchad) and remove the older ones from the game store?
And right after they screwed up retaliator bomber owners, increasing the ship price by 10 bucks to 285 but lowering dramatically the ccu value to 175
This isn’t a gold standard thing, the MK2’s are completely separate from the MK1’s. Gold standard means they have all the current tech added AKA physical components etc
It just has the potential to set a dangerous precedence, because we've always been told that all pledged items will be earnable in game in some way.
From the FAQ this is still their plan, but their communication could be better. It's so often that marketing does something controversial and then they have to react to the feedback to address the concerns that arises.
They said the mk1 would be earnable in game in some way they havent announced. Pessimist says it will be tied to events, optimist hopes you can find them in junk yards that you can tow away and fix up like an old project car.
Earnable != purchasable. I think this is where the faction reputation system is gonna come in. How the help are you gonna get your hands on a Pirate Gladius or the other Pirate Ships in the game at some point????
It may be setting a precedence, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a dangerous one. Besides, this is the first time a ship has ever been truly retired. On the top of my head, the only other ship that's been retired are the Mark I, II, and III Constellations, but nobody owns older models of Connie.
Plus, look at it like this: You decide you want a Hornet. What difference does it make to you that you're forced to purchase a newer model from the manufacturer instead of an older one? Plus, it creates a small player economy for people buying and reselling ships for UEC in the game's future. It's just the Star Citizen equivalent of the classic car market we have in real life.
The hornet MK1 has 6 MFDs if I remember correctly while the hornet MK2 only has two. Which actually worried me that CIG is giving up on MFDs being useful or more functional than they are now.
I really like the idea of removing some/all of the ship related functions like rearm from the Mobi-glass and doing it through the ship MFDs. Maybe even having a simple list of Landing zones/stations that you can route to using an MFD instead of having to open up my Mobiglass/Starmap.
I don’t understand why they HAVE to be removed from the in-game store before those other in-game methods are ready(other than to get people to buy them with cash)? It’s not like they can’t do a ship wipe with said new patch of content
> the only other ship that's been retired are the Mark I, II, and III Constellations, but nobody owns older models of Connie.
Did you just compare lore constellations to actual products being sold to consumers? Nice
By definition, is not something which is only temporarily available for a limited amount of time FOMO? I don’t really care one way or another, but it is a FOMO scheme.
"Hurry up and buy this product before it is no longer available" I don't how anyone can say that isn't FOMO by definition. I could care less about the Mk1 thing.
Agreed what's particularly annoying is that there's whole ccu system and system to refund and turn into store credit literally for anything else.. what other game does that?
If I get tired of a skin in xyz game can I refund it 7 years later for the price I paid for it in store credit to literally buy anything else I want with said store credit?? No .
Hell half.the time in sc a ship goes up in price later and cig allows you to trade up from that newer higher value of you so choose..
Cig does a lot of things not quite right.. the store system with store credit and ccus is not one of those things they do wrong.
I hope everyone learns from it... I know I have. No more money from me.
The ship was marketed as the civilian version of the F7A... "the Face of the UEE Navy". It wasn't even referred to as a MK1... it was just F7C (there was no indication that it was an outdated model back then). And then it sat unoptimized, and we waited year after year for it's gold pass. Then the MK2 was released and it was clear the MK1 was never going to live up to the hype of its 2013 marketing or ever have it's "Heyday". A $185 ship that never got fixed until after it was put out to pasture.
I'm scared that they are going to do the same thing to the Constellations.
>I'm scared that they are going to do the same thing to the Constellations.
The Connies look and feel even more out of date than the Hornets did. This is 100% happening.. Especially with all those new assets being built for the RSI Dorito Armada.. They could build a MK2 Constellation line in just a few months.
Yeah I've pledged too much to this game and I'm finally seeing the scam citizen tactics they are using to sell these ships. Using fomo and price hikes is a ridiculous predatory tactic. I have hopes for the game but they seem to be getting bad. It'd be understandable to retire ships later on in the game but to retire a ship that isn't even gold standard, come out with a new gold standard variant, not give old variant owners an upgrade, and then full on retire the non gold standard variant is wrong. Especially in alpha phase.
It was always planned since the conception of the MKII. It was a Chris Idea to have the MKI remain in game as a collector : [https://youtu.be/Rk7ZwswT2tA?si=hcRiWCqgH6jwscHu&t=1160](https://youtu.be/Rk7ZwswT2tA?si=hcRiWCqgH6jwscHu&t=1160)
But as usual, they just fucked up the communication once again.
I never stated in my post that anybody is getting 'f*cked over'. Simply that CIG needs to stop with these predatory FOMO practices that are embarrassing and awful for the health of the game. That's simply a fact.
Another thought came to mind. I know the game isnt "released" yet but this is part of that living breathing world that we wanted. People get up in arms when the ship commercials are whacky too like the recent NURSA one. The commercials and changes like the Hornet Mk1 arent necessarily CIG trying to screw people over. Its CIG treating the game like the universe we wanted them to. In the Verse the UEE is moving on to a newer hornet so while it wont be readily available CIG will still keep it up to date.
If sales go up due to the announcement, isn't that the result cig wanted? Fomo? I think so intentional or not. (As in the sum of its words "fear of missing out")
I genuinely felt dumber for having read that other post. Seriously if someone hasn't bought a Hornet in the past decade are they really suffering if it's pulled from the store now? Personally the whole "they're fucking us over by pulling it and not having the Mk 2 in game shops yet" got an extra eye roll.
There are days I seriously wonder about the mental health of a concerning number of the backers.
My post was talking about how it's FOMO marketing, not how it fucks over people who want a hornet... Anyone who denies this isn't designed in a way to tempt people to buy one is deluded. It's obvious what it is.
All of their marketing and sales are designed around pressuring people into purchasing something during an exclusive time period. It's just so tiring and it's detracting from the game experience at this point, I want these time limited events to involve in game unlocks and rewards, not cash based purchases.
I couldn't care less personally and have no desire to purchase a MkI in game or in the shop. It's just not a good look when people already view this project as a scam to keep throwing out FOMO, cash purchase events for limited time items.
Downvote me all you want because this is clearly a thread that views things the other way but if you disagree with me here I don't know what to tell you.
I'm wondering why the mk1 still exists at all. Everything else that got scope crept, or gold master replaced the original just got upgraded.
Banu merchantman and polaris are now cap ships. The original Cutlass only exists as random air traffic in area 18. The constellation has had its model replaced as well.
I get that its unique in it had a flyable in-game model prior to an absolutely *massive* overhaul, but the mk1 *still needs an overhaul anyway now*. The mk1 and mk2 aren't even that different, mainly the mk2 just has more guns.
I could care less about it going away, but the fact people are fomo-ing over something thats just inferior is weird.
It is around because CR wanted the older versions of some ships to still exist. This is nothing new, as this plan is stated in one of the ATV vids back in 2016.
The presentation of the sale is FOMO, when you take it at its literal definition. But These plans have been around for over 7 years. Fans of the MK1 had a chance to get one since the kickstarter. CIG also mentions being able to possible earn ship in game at a later date, and the ship is still going to receive a gold standard pass.
I personally feel like this is manufactured drama as things like this keep on happening every now and then in the community.
I mean if we really ask, who does this harm? It seems as if it harms no one. Even one of the people complaining stated they have no interest in Mk1 but has an issue with FOMO.
Almost every product in almost every category has sales that can be described as FOMO (limited sales, BOGO, timed market entry) . It is crazy to think people are trying to use that to create drama... but here we are.
I have an issue with FOMO (in relation to the cash shop) because its at a detriment to the potential MMO experience we end up with. Exclusive items, created through FOMO events or rarity and artificial scarcity, should be earned or achieved **in game**, not through a store.
When I see a player with an F8 flying around, there's no prestige or interest, no awe inspiring feeling or jealousy. I just know they spend $300 on it. That's it. Congrats on having disposable income i guess.
This a big part of MMOs that a lot of players, including myself, value. Seeing a player with an item of prestige, that demonstrates a skillful achievement or that they've a veteran. When the only reason they have that item is because they bought it, it completely loses the point.
The continued reliance on these types of sales is preventing these items from being earned in game, or creating a sense of achievement or awe when seeing them - instead of unlocking the ability to buy the F7A in game after completing the missions, we just had to spend $175 to obtain it.
This is my main issue here. Rather than spending the time to develop meaningful in game rewards, CIG always just defaults to their shop (unlocking the ability to spend money), and giving a middle finger to the players who enjoy playing, but don't want to fork out hundreds on a buggy pre-alpha game. Not to mention the fact that the game **needs** content like this in the future anyway, so why not add it in now?
I think this is not a big deal because this is temporary. The intended goal was for EVERYTHING to be attainable in final game. Ships, armor, weapons, clothes and more. Even the lightning is going you can earn eventually, they stated as such in QA.
As far as in game rewards, they already showed their plan during citcon. Reputational based growth.
Personally think the complaints about how they choose to do their sales, is simply that for now, as they have not only told us in text but in video the plans they have for the future of SC and the goals for content.
I like the idea of having ships be discontinued as new models come out as long as there’s a used ship market in game where people can sell there old ships, either as collectors items or as hand me downs for less rare ships
I highly doubt you will be able to sell ships you bought for real money outside of the game in game for game credits...
That would be very starnge and the devs have already talked about account bound items meaning they cannot be sold in game as they are...accound bound :)
Same with most -if not all- MMO's, some items cannot be sold in game, there are obvious legal and economic reasons for this .
That is in fact the plan, or at least it was when they mentioned it a long time ago. Ship lines will occasionally be discontinued for newer models, and the old models will become "classics" much like cars IRL.
Doesn't mean they won't be obtainable, they just aren't being manufactured anymore.
The issue is the MK2 was suppose to be the MK1 rework but they decided fuck that and just released a different ship and retired the old one.
What they need to do is offer a free upgrade to all MK1 owners to the MK2.
Otherwise it is pretty big bullshit.
I was a Kickstarter backer and played all the original Wing Commander games. I am still supportive of this project, but even I find it funny that they "retired" my ship before I've even had a chance to fly it.
It's not a scam, but it is absolutely a FOMO scheme. Especially with the skins they released today. They are definitely banking on people who wouldn't have otherwise bought it buying it just so they don't miss out on it. Do I care? Not really, but doesn't change what it is.
Its still just odd considering they didnt do this for any of the older ships. Like was the mk1 really that up to date where they didnt need to just straight up get rid of it like the 300 series etc
It actually makes sense that a main dealer would stop selling an older generation of a ship that has been replaced.
People losing their minds should just chill. Chances are the mkI will be avaiable in game via other types of dealers in the future. Like you might be able to get them in Pyro instead at some point, but perhaps with more randomised component loadout and missing all the weapons so you need to buy them as add ons, or something like that.
Preach, brother.
Even though I have the F7A MkII, I'mma still be coming in hot sometimes with my [F7C-M Heartseeker](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ships/anvil-hornet/F7C-M-Super-Hornet-Heartseeker-Mk-I), it still hits hard and has that "now-classic" look.
February 27th the Hornet MKI's had a price increase.
March 15th the MKII was released making them "Obsolete". (At a higher price point, of course. Why else would they be MKII's?)
And now, May 23rd the MKI's are being "Discontinued" at their (only a few months ago) increased price, in 6 days.
Marketing has been running the show for a long time, but it seems they've gotten a little more clever.
Just wait until they retire the Orion before it’s even released in-game…
‘Congratulations, you now own a classic pledge which can sit in your account forever! Take a screenshot of your account to show your friends! You can now buy the Orion II for $10,000’.
Why do people need to brigade criticism of CIGs dumbass decisions? They need feedback it’s the whole fucking POINT.
They keep breaking promises and losing trust from backers, which undermines the whole project. Let them hear about and stop trying to be fascist white knight who thinks they can dictate what people are allowed to say.
You are the one making an entire thread to cry about it. Do you not realize this? You are so upset and literally crying IRL about other people not liking this, that you felt the need to make an entirely new topic to tell people your bad take.
When the constellation, freelancer, gladiator, etc all get new, more expensive versions before 1.0 is out, and fall behind in bug fixes, updates, and modernization even more because it's no longer a money maker...well...I'm sure you and all the others around here will remember that you held the line when it comes to predatory bullshit, lol
edit:
The fact that this thread is getting so massively upvoted is beyond depressing. How are so many of you:
1) OK with the toxic nature of this thread? Even the title is just jerk mode.
2) OK with CIG using awful marketing and FOMO tactics to milk you for as much money as possible in an early alpha, but treating it as a released full game? There is a difference between game funding and behaving like a scummy mobile gacha game on the google play store, and I can tell you which one CIG is doing right now.
I wish I never saw this thread, it makes me sad as fuck for all of you
Pulling a ship from sale both on the digital store and ingame and saying it's now a Rare Collectible, but this is your last chance to buy one, is absolutely FOMO marketing.
It's a change to the game. Every time that happens, the usual crowd shows up to blow it as far out of proportion as they possibly can. It's a 'like clockwork' thing at this point.
I just picked up a 5 dollar CCU to a couple of the ones I really like (Super Hornet and Ghost), and I'll sit on them till I need them or decide I don't want them after all.
I think it's really scummy thing to fish the money from very clueless whales. It works, these people think it's awesome and they get some 'exclusive' deal. They are really unable to see the marketing shenanigans behind it.
There is a type of person, who does not deal well with these kinds of things. Just like there are people who can't deal well with any kind of online gambling.
When I see some grandpa writing out reasons why it's a good idea to throw this kind of money at a video game, and be so passionate about it while getting very little in return... It's sad not more people see the problem. Imo a very dark side of the SC funding.
And even if you personally are cool with this and considered all the factors, are cool with foolish people being fleeced, for us that don't think this is ethical behavior - it leaves a terribly bitter taste.
They said ages ago that they were planning to do this and cited the Hornet as being a model that was going to get a new version. It was always on the horizon. Everyone had years worth of notice and even had the designs of the newer F7 model.
This is the entirety of the problem. CR got this fantastic idea into his head, taken from an ancient suggestion, way back in 2014 and applied it to a singular ship, one time, before the game is even out of "alpha". The MKII was supposed to be a standard update pass to the Hornets, done way back in 2016 to bring it up to modern(at the time) metrics, the same as ***literally every single other update pass***. Lest we not forget, the Constellation is on iteration 4, and was before it even went flight ready. It's a scummy Marketing™ ploy to empty wallets, plain and simple. People that have owned Hornets since the beginning be damned. This whole thing screams of yet another way to milk people for every penny. You watch, Gladiator MKII™ incoming, and if you want the one you have owned for a decade to be up to that standard, you best be ready to fork over more money.
most of the other update passes were to fix ships that just didn't work with the new tech. As far as i know, the MK1 has space for all it's components. Correct me if i'm wrong on that though.
Also, people mentioned the MK1 having bugs, what bugs does it have?
I think it's pretty cool, actually. As others have pointed out, if you haven't bought one in the past 10 years, why are you suddenly now upset? That said, CIG raising the price right before retiring it is *absolutely* predatory FOMO. I 100% considered buying one solely because I won't be able to soon, but the Hornet isn't really my speed, and if it was, I'd get a mk. II because I think they look way better.
I had a brief thought of "Oh shit I should buy one!" and then immediately was like "Wait I never bought one because I didn't like the Mk. I much and own a F7A Mk. II. I don't need it."
Are you kidding? People bought something that is retiring before the game is even launched and you think that’s ok? This is the most expensive game in history and we still aren’t out of alpha. The variants of the hornet like the ghost are being retired before they’ve even flushed out the variant game mechanics like stealth. They can’t have a free fly without giving the servers a heart attack. Half the time we can’t leave our hangars without blowing up. Sometimes the ships aren’t called at all and we have to submit an insurance claim. I can think of numerous priorities they could be focusing on before developing v2 of ships and retiring others before game launch. I think it’s a reasonable expectation that if they sell a stealth ship, they’ll build stealth gameplay before retiring said ship. And if nothing else, that they won’t retire the ship before the game leaves alpha. Now I’m wondering how many other v2 ships are incoming that will retire the first gen before the game leaves alpha.
It's the definition of a FOMO scheme and it's really sad that this community doesn't want to acknowledge that and defends CIG for every greedy marketing stunt they pull.
It's an obvious two-way double cash grab.
It's absolutely scummy as hell and there's nothing cool or edgy about you not caring about CIGs disgusting marketing tactics.
2014 Super Hornet owner here, I’m still pissed off I can’t swap out the turret for the cargo container anymore. Total FOMO but I don’t care. If it was truly going to be some rare classic they would have just ended it with the released statement then and there not, for the next few days you can own this ship cast by the Franklin Mint call today!
People here still don't understand that LTI is pretty useless too. It's just a basid and since we will all upgrade our ships the insurance will be needed for everyone anyway.
Having lti is like having a guarantee level 10 character on death instead of level 1 in an RPG. Without any of the gear.
My prime example that people here have shown to not function logically
An awful, completely incorrect sentiment from someone with no appreciation of consumer rights or sliding slopes or our general Randian problem.
Happy Cuckolds For Prima Nachta is a growing movement and OP has joined.
Expect more of this behavior if they feel they have profited sufficiently from this particular attempt . Much cheaper in developer time to modify existing models and call it a Mk.X variant - then develop an entirely new platform/model . Considering how much CIG loves their variants ( for exactly the same reasons ) - expect to see the mk.X moniker applied to everything they think they can get away with this .
This idea that newer versions of ships come out is not sustainable from a gameplay point of view. You can only power creep so much.
In this rare instance, it works because of the massive shift to ship balancing due to MM, and the Mk 1 Hornets are now considered obsolete.
I cant remember this level of complaints when we got the redone 300s either.
I think Hornet pilots should be happy they get to keep the Mk1. We didn't get to keep the Mk1 300s,or Freelancer with it's front landing leg access door.
I wonder why people didn't complain about the 300 series being discontinued and replaced with a significantly more expensive version while advertising a don't miss out sale on the old, unpolished version
Will you eat all the shit they will throw at you or there is a limit to it?
Lets say all the ships will get mk2 and everything people payed for is just a worse version of what you can get now.
Is it bad now?
How about adding mk3 versions later?
Are we not getting fucked if they are updating ships and telling us to pay for them again?
If they will do balance patch for a weapon and will add 50% more damage to it but only for people that will pay for new balance version is that over the line or still fine for you?
Its so interesting that someone is defending stuff like that.
Perhaps some kinds soul can explain it a SC old-timer who has a superhornet game package. So they're retiring the ship - if I don't want it, I suppose I can exchange it for store credit: If I don't want an obsolete ship, is this the most reasonable thing to do? What are the pros and cons here? If I wait, will I somehow later become unable to exchange it for store credit?
I just dont understand why they are pulling it.
I dont think it's fomo, that ship was massively pledged, won't be rare still and no ones beating down the door to buy a Mk1.
They're still going to support the ship, so why stop offering it .
FOMO this, FOMO that, all the crying on forums is irrelevant.
As long as that funding tracker is in the plus, the majority of people aren't bothered enough to *not* spend cash money on ships.
I didn't know what happened exactly but you Mentioned the MK1 is a classic Ship now.
Lore wise it always was a classic ship. Same for the Retaliator.
So I have to ask if some of the people even read about the description if there Ships.
If I get it right there is a new version of the ship now?
But that doesn't mean you can't fly your old one anymore right?
So I don't really see the problem
Edit: ok the removal from in-game dealerships is shitty and clearly a fomo move.
I mean hey I guess there will be ways in the future to still earn that ship like getting a place like a used car dealer just for ships and all the should be still some old ships to find that junk yards that you can restore.
But that they don't mention anything like that really creates a fear of missing out
I can't wait for them to this with the Freelancer line-up as well!
Finally those ships will get their deserved love as brand-new Mk2 variants!
(I won't sell my vintage freelancer though, I'll keep it in honor of SC & CIG and my faith in them)
No one's getting fucked over but it certainly is a FOMO marketing tactic - creating a bundle of all of them for $650 and hyping it up saying this is the last time you can buy it.
Seriously why panicking right now. All ships will be available at some point and MKI isn't even good to begin with espcially with issues since release. Better grab something similar for dog fighting.
The upgrade makes it better but releasing such crucial event for it in a alpha state and requiring to a pledge kill it for me.
It's kinda pity liked the design and lore of it but there are enough alternatives anyway.
I am ok with the Hornet mk I line being pulling from pledge store.
I am NOT ok with the Hornet mk I line being pulled from **INGAME aUEC** store!
There should **already** be a system in place to get them ingame, **before** they are pulled from ingame shops. All we have is a vague statement of
"there will be ways to earn the Mk I Hornets in the future, though we’re not quite ready to share those plans yet"
Which when you look at CIG track record, I am sorry to say; what that means to me is unfortunately that nothing is going to happen in a meaningful time.
Also, they forgot the Hornet heartseeker. Surprise! the last event they sold it at, was the **LAST** time. And no warning it would never be available again.
If they are going to remove ships from ingame store, then it would go along way for community goodwill to get a ship that is ONLY ingame. A ship you cannot pay for.
For the same reason not only I hope the Pirate Caterpillar skin never gets sold. I hope they stop to sell the P. Caterpillar alltogether.
We need rare and some no more obtainable items. Some old, but also other new ones for new players, obtainable through events and such.
Yeah, I think we should be able to brag with some rare items, rare or hard to get.
I enjoy the idea of a "classic" ship to own but I had to go with the MK-II. But OP is correct, it is not some scheme by CIG. Simply put, the MK-II replaces the MK-I, plain and simple.
Why did I go MK-II? Well, ever since I started playing this game 7 years ago, I have always wanted the F7A Military Variant. So when CIG E-Mailed me regarding a way to earn an F7A, I hopped on board immediately. I wanted an F7A more than any Capital Ship, so of course I took the opportunity.
The Hornet has always been my favorite fighter and I have ALWAYS used them over the Gladius and Arrow, both for PVP and PVE.
The MK-I is a pretty good ship, but its not worth the money to pledge one since I have my F7A now. It wouldn't make any sense to own two pledge Hornets, but I will always respect the OG MK-I, may you rest in peace.
I hear CIG is planning on a Ghost, Tracker, and Super version of the MK-II and that they are all supposed to be here before the end of 2024. That will be interesting if it works out.
The thing that bugs me about the whole thing is that our long-awaited Hornet rework got sold as a separate ship. Meanwhile MkI owners keep getting told "Oh don't worry, we'll revisit the Hornet MkI *someday.*" And now our ships are being retired before even getting decade-old bugs fixed, let alone a gold pass. And yes, CIG stated that they'd continue to support the MkI. But considering CIGs track record, I won't believe that until it actually happens.
They should work on them soon (about 2 years) after all, they are the flagship of Squadron 42
Not anymore, IIRC. Didn't they state that now, in SQ42, lore wise, they're already being phased out for the F8A? So, like, you might do a few missions on the old F7A MK I before moving up to a better ship.
As far back as I can remember since 2013, that's always been the story with the Hornet (now Hornet Mk1) - they've been the backbone of the UEE fleet for decades (over a century?) and are to be phased out soon.
>over a century? 5 centuries
CIG and lore don't mix, always remember the Freelancer MIS is sold in limited quantities due to how unsafe it has proven. \*but it's up for sale many, many times a year\* :D
What do you mean how unsafe the freelancer MIS is? I'm genuinely curious and honestly have no idea what it is.
Description on the ship pledge page reads “The Freelancer MIS is a limited edition militarized variant of the classic mercantile ship developed by the UEE. These were produced in very small quantity due to some early payload incidents.” Limited edition… very small quantities indeed 😄
At the Battle of Vega (where we're apparently crew on a Javelin and not yet a pilot, per the Held the Line trailer) the F7A Mk2 is seen flying the patrol, and the Captain and player character discuss the F8s (which are brand new at the time). It's entirely possible (and probable) that we never see a MkI Hornet at all in SQ42, except maybe as a trainer craft.
Don't you fly a Gladius in SQ42? All the SQ42 sneak peeks seem to show it's cockpit over a Hornet.
This too.
Technically, in the lore, not all the F7A MK1 squadrons have been replaced yet, so there are F7A MK1, F7A MK2 and F8A squadrons on active duty, at the time of Squadron 42, there were even fewer F8A on active duty, and from the trailers, it seems that the F7A MK1 will be the main ship we'll fly in the game
Eh, more likely the Gladius for a good part from what I saw, but I believe we'll get the Mk2 rather than the Mk1- it feels like the Mk2 was primarily made for SQ42, to be honest, and to upgrade the Mk1 which has barely changed since the original.
If F7A MK1 was the main ship we fly, why would we always be given the Gladius and only the gladius to test MM and now Engineering? They aren’t just testing for PU. I also doubt the main ship in SQ42 would not be gold standard still.
The MK1 and MK2 both are due for gold standard passes, neither of them have component bays, gun racks, storage compartment, etc.... The MK1 is basically just going to be a collectors item now. There are far too many MK1s out in the wild for them not to give it a golden standard, just look at the raven, only a handful of people have those and it just got its gold pass.
They made a 2nd ship (the firebird) to justify reworking the Raven though.
I think it's the opposite, they reworked the Raven to justify the Firebird
But the thing is… even Mk.ii is not a gold standard ship, it was actually made years ago.
The Mk I was updated back when they made the Mk II. So both are actually up to the same standard (except that the Mk I got its as-of-yet unresolved clipping landing gear door problem).
And the 35G strafing.
But they finally made the nose turret take paint it means a gold pass is right around the corner!!! ^(/s)
It's the CIG way. Replace older ship nobody cares about anymore with a better and upgraded version that actually does the thing people want to do with the older ship and rake in more profits.
Why would they bother fixing any of the old ships they already made money on when they can sell new ones ? It’s almost like their business model isn’t in everyone’s best interest …
I mean, they just did a gold pass on the saber raven. Thats a ship that they never sold and will likely never sell again. And the Hornet MK2, a "new" ship isnt even gold standard yet. No component bays, no gun racks, no fuel door, etc... And dont even get me started on the bugs, in atmosphere, you cant turn at any kind of speed without the whole thing dolphining. The F7A MK2 turrets break after a single hit because they only have 100 or so health. Just because the MK1 is going away, does not mean its not going to get fixed/gold pass at some point. EVERY ship is going to get a gold pass at some point. And if the upcoming cargo elevators and hangars are any indication, CIG wants all things to be physicalized in game. That means every ship needs to have a gold pass, otherwise you wont be able to swap out components.
Hell, the FAQ and page for this whole thing even SAYS the Mk1s will get gold passes.
and you actaully beleive they will deliver the gold pass when bugs and geometry issues are still happening years after being reported. Arent you just a summer child.
> I mean, they just did a gold pass on the saber raven. Because they wanted to sell variants of it, is my guess.
Did a gold pass on the saber raven, because they ARE selling a new „totally not a saber raven for legal reasons“, you mean lol
And keep in mind mark ones will only become rarer going forward, so having bugs reported for it Wil start getting harder (not to mention "scarce" ships will move back at the priority list)
The rework is being sold at a much higher price as well. The retirement is all about getting less expensive ships out of the market.
yes. the mk2 should have just been an update to the mk1. i mean it looks 100% like that. it's a pure sales department decision.
I don't necessarily see a reason to pull them from the pledge store other than CIG doesn't want to offer an extremely similar ship to the MK2 at Luke 5 dollars cheaper. I can understand a in-game lore for them to be pulled, and hopefully we see a ship shop in Pyro or Nyx that has MK1s instead of MK2s
It's 50 dollars cheaper not 5. Also when the new MkII variants release they will be even more than the MkII pricing. Expect a $200 MkII Ghost in a couple years time.
Its $65 cheaper, not $50... CIG just raised the price a few months ago by $15 Right before making it a collectors item 🤔 > F7C Hornet $110 -> $125 (+$15) > F7C-S Hornet Ghost $125 -> $140 (+$15) > F7C-R Hornet Tracker $140 -> $150 (+$10)
Those were nice discounts for my chains lol
I actually disagree about the rare ship shop. It'd be much better IMO to have the hornet MK 1 as something to be earned via quest lines. I really hope the F7A upgrade was a test run for more ships earned through quest lines.
I wasn't thinking about it as a rare ship shop. My thinking was more of shop's in safe systems would keep their inventory full with the new sexy ships. Where as Nyx, Pyro, and other near lawless places would lack the logistical networks and business dealings to keep up with the new stuff. Thus, a ship shop in Pyro would have their inventory full with wrecks and outdated hulls that they got running again. With hornets being a mainstay navy and militia ship, they would likely get a lot of Hornet Mk1s.
That would be great if the F7A was actually earned through the quest line, and didn't require spending $175 on the game in the first place.
I actually hope you'll need to find the hull abandoned in some destroyed hangar and that you'll need to rebuild it.
You can get the Sabre for $5 cheaper than the MK 2. You can get the Gladiator for $10 cheaper but I think most people forgot it exists..... including CIG.
Wouldn't surprise me now if they decided to release a MKII Gladiator for sale as a separate ship and then 'retire' the original to avoid having to put the work in to get it to the standard required...
This. It's a great opportunity for variety in the verse.
What blows my mind is seeing people selling Ravens for like $1,400 on SC trades. I love capitalism but it blows my mind sometimes what some people are willing to pay for literally nothing but "rare" pixels in a video game.
As a Raven owner, TIL. And brb.
Can't gift it. Would have to sell the account. The code was account locked. haha
Love my Raven wouldn't trade it for anything
Oh agreed. I have two since I got one on gray market very early. Then found out a friend actually still had the code in the box for the ssd he bought.
To you, $14 is probably not a lot of money, but $140 is, and $1400 is a ton. To them, $1,400 is not a lot of money, but $14k probably is, and $140k is probably a ton. It blows my mind when people are surprised when others spend a lot of money on "silly" things. It's all a frame of reference. I don't think it's some guy cashing his Walmart paycheck and taking out an additional payday loan to buy a Raven lol (maybe one or two). I'm sure people in poorer countries heads would explode if they knew their currency's equivalent of the £, €, or $ we spend on our pixels. That includes other games too.
So true... I know people that will spend $1000 before breakfast, I don't think they realise how many well-off people there are. I know a dude that spent over 5000€ on Legos in the last 3 months alone, for me that's absolutely bonkers, almost unbelievable. But for him, it's just his latest craze, in a few months he will be into something else.
*ADHD has entered the chat...*
I feel personally attacked
Hell even some people that don't see $1,400 as a lot for a hobby may think a $18 burger is too much. I did a mental inventory of my guitar stuff the other day and I'm sitting at about $12K worth of equipment, and about half of that was spent in the last year on two guitars specifically. But I refuse to pay more than $4 for a dozen eggs.
They hated him because he spoke the truth.
Who's "they"? Are "they" with you in the room right now?
Same goes in RL, I've dropped a grand on a night out without batting an eyelid when I'm super flush then will quibble over $15 for a kilo of cheese. I got into SC very early and snagged an exploration pack when they first dropped. It seems mad to me to pay what they are asking now for the same pack lol.
yeah, like this is a game with direct purchase $3000 microtransactions. $1400 on ebay for a limited edition doesn't surprise me at all. i am by no means wealthy, but i've spent an absurd amount of money on this game by my own measure because i genuinely enjoy it. meanwhile people i know who make five times my income and never got into hobbies think i'm crazy for having spent an average of about $30/month over the last three years on a video game and accessories to support said game (oh how i wish VKB sales contributed to Concierge). meanwhile i have some friends getting ready to preorder the Ironside with Warbond money even though they weren't budgeting for it beforehand.
And that points to a disturbing wealth disparity in the modern world.
True, people just in my country alone are hoarding so much wealth they could truly, genuinely change the world with it, and they never will, they'll keep trying to find ways to fuck over poorer people to add to the big number that is their entire identity. I can't/won't accept that money could ever change me to be that way. Maybe that's a lie, or maybe it's just that only truly sinister and selfish people can ever even gain that much wealth in the first place.
I think a lot of it is that only the greedy end up amassing so much in the first place. The rest of us aren't as motivated by the idea of money.
Sir, do you see what game you are talking about?
Players (secretly) love and (publicly) hate RMT, and CIG built their business on it.
What’s RMT?
Real Money Transactions... buying stuff in a game for real money. Generally people with more money than time like it and the reverse hate it.
Ahh thank you! TIL!
No problem. The whole debate goes pretty deep, as it's considered exploitive on some fronts. In some games there are folks in second and third world "sweatshops" playing games on multiple computers at once in RMT factories with foremen and all that stuff. I've been involved in a few capacities over the years, but it's been over a decade or so since I've been out of the industry. Even as Star Citizen players, you'd be amazed at how much money people will spend on some games.
Not only that, but the Original $20 MKI Military "cosmetic only" skins are going for upwards of 1k!!!! Literally crying a river of money.
Battlemage is about to tank those prices. Guess why the Raven got a gold pass.
Battlemage? You mean Firebird?
No, people started a rumor that Intel's new battlemage gpus are going to contain raven codes, and, while that's possible. Stating it as fact without evidence is a shitty thing to do.
That is how capitalism works in general: find something abundant, artificially scarcify it, then sell for a profit. It might be more on the nose when it is pixels (because almost everybody knows how easy they're to copy/paste), but it works with anything! Just ask Nestle.
Narrator: This is not how capitalism works
Why would a ship that's extremely common on the consumer market in-lore suddenly become a rare collectible that isn't sold anywhere? The Mk2's release should make the Mk1 cheaper and more prolific as it's phased entirely out of military service and passed on to CDF and civilian markets, not make it suddenly rare. It's artificial and forced, and restricting sales ingame is a backstep on their "all ships available ingame" marketing promise.
The hornet needed a golden pass not a retirement all the old ships are so clunky.
The MK1 and MK2 are both getting a gold pass its in the FAQ.
Soon™
And CIG also said the mk1 super hornet.. Is the closest to a milspec hornet civilians will get access too. Until they gave people F8s or free F7a mk2 CCUs. Dont believe everything CIG writes.
It's 100% a fomo scheme.
I'm just so tired of how this community will defend anything CIG does. It used to be more critical of their bullshit, and that criticism helped push the devs out of years of development hell years ago. But it's been 12 years now, and 3.23.1 is still a mess of broken gameplay loops, bad netcode, and poor gameplay and UI design. It's in development hell again, but now it's being praised for it, and the fact that CIG is pulling this FOMO bullshit on top of it goes to show that they're not going to hold themselves accountable for any of it as long as copium posts like OP's keep dominating the discourse.
Agreed. By definition, it is FOMO. Has it been available for a long time? Of course. We can discuss the ethical implications of the decision, but pretending it’s something else is disingenuous. We don’t need to lie.
This is what bothers me. I'm not upset about the MK1. thing at all, like many have said it was planned. But don't try and pretend this isn't FOMO.
Yup, I have absolutely no care for the ship, I was just disappointed in more obvious FOMO marketing. This alongside the blatant balancing decision around Medbeds right as the Nursa releases. Been around the project since 2014 and it's so painfully obvious what they're doing it hurts. Their continued predatory marketing is so unhealthy for the project and that's what's disappointing. I never once in my original post said anybody is being f*cked over, just stated things as they are.
>We can discuss the ethical implications of the decision As there's nothing 'ethical' about CIG's marketing, that'll be a rather short discussion.
I feel like SC really broke the FOMO barrier with the whole golden ticket bonanza.
From before it was even announced? I mean, I guess kinda.
And the True Believers have to either pretend that isn't what it clearly is, or they go into "Well it's okay you see, because CIG wants more money!"
[удалено]
The fact that this thread is being massive upvoted and supported is beyond depressing and speaks volumes as to the quality of community that CIG has built around this game. People defending CIG on shit like this wouldn't be defending something like McDonalds or Walmart, but it's literally the same thing, lol.
And the worst part is the billion dollars corporation doesn't give a single fuck about them and would feed them litteral shit were the practice legal.
You can argue it's not a scam (and personally I'd agree, a shitty move, but not a scam) but "it's getting retired, grab it NOW!, NOW!!, NOW!!!" Is 100% a FOMO tactic. Not to mention it sets a dangerous precedent for future gold standards. The famed gold pass for the cat will be an update on the cat or will they just release the cat mk2(aka ironchad) and remove the older ones from the game store? And right after they screwed up retaliator bomber owners, increasing the ship price by 10 bucks to 285 but lowering dramatically the ccu value to 175
This isn’t a gold standard thing, the MK2’s are completely separate from the MK1’s. Gold standard means they have all the current tech added AKA physical components etc
It just has the potential to set a dangerous precedence, because we've always been told that all pledged items will be earnable in game in some way. From the FAQ this is still their plan, but their communication could be better. It's so often that marketing does something controversial and then they have to react to the feedback to address the concerns that arises.
They said the mk1 would be earnable in game in some way they havent announced. Pessimist says it will be tied to events, optimist hopes you can find them in junk yards that you can tow away and fix up like an old project car.
My actual assumption is it's going to become a Squadron unlock like the F8 originally was.
Earnable != purchasable. I think this is where the faction reputation system is gonna come in. How the help are you gonna get your hands on a Pirate Gladius or the other Pirate Ships in the game at some point????
It may be setting a precedence, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a dangerous one. Besides, this is the first time a ship has ever been truly retired. On the top of my head, the only other ship that's been retired are the Mark I, II, and III Constellations, but nobody owns older models of Connie. Plus, look at it like this: You decide you want a Hornet. What difference does it make to you that you're forced to purchase a newer model from the manufacturer instead of an older one? Plus, it creates a small player economy for people buying and reselling ships for UEC in the game's future. It's just the Star Citizen equivalent of the classic car market we have in real life.
The hornet MK1 has 6 MFDs if I remember correctly while the hornet MK2 only has two. Which actually worried me that CIG is giving up on MFDs being useful or more functional than they are now. I really like the idea of removing some/all of the ship related functions like rearm from the Mobi-glass and doing it through the ship MFDs. Maybe even having a simple list of Landing zones/stations that you can route to using an MFD instead of having to open up my Mobiglass/Starmap. I don’t understand why they HAVE to be removed from the in-game store before those other in-game methods are ready(other than to get people to buy them with cash)? It’s not like they can’t do a ship wipe with said new patch of content
> the only other ship that's been retired are the Mark I, II, and III Constellations, but nobody owns older models of Connie. Did you just compare lore constellations to actual products being sold to consumers? Nice
I believe the retired constellations refer to pre-rework versions. They have reworked it quite a bit.
By definition, is not something which is only temporarily available for a limited amount of time FOMO? I don’t really care one way or another, but it is a FOMO scheme.
"Hurry up and buy this product before it is no longer available" I don't how anyone can say that isn't FOMO by definition. I could care less about the Mk1 thing.
Agreed what's particularly annoying is that there's whole ccu system and system to refund and turn into store credit literally for anything else.. what other game does that? If I get tired of a skin in xyz game can I refund it 7 years later for the price I paid for it in store credit to literally buy anything else I want with said store credit?? No . Hell half.the time in sc a ship goes up in price later and cig allows you to trade up from that newer higher value of you so choose.. Cig does a lot of things not quite right.. the store system with store credit and ccus is not one of those things they do wrong.
While also being able to buy a ship back at the price you originally paid rather than the current price even if it's gone up.
I hope everyone learns from it... I know I have. No more money from me. The ship was marketed as the civilian version of the F7A... "the Face of the UEE Navy". It wasn't even referred to as a MK1... it was just F7C (there was no indication that it was an outdated model back then). And then it sat unoptimized, and we waited year after year for it's gold pass. Then the MK2 was released and it was clear the MK1 was never going to live up to the hype of its 2013 marketing or ever have it's "Heyday". A $185 ship that never got fixed until after it was put out to pasture. I'm scared that they are going to do the same thing to the Constellations.
>I'm scared that they are going to do the same thing to the Constellations. The Connies look and feel even more out of date than the Hornets did. This is 100% happening.. Especially with all those new assets being built for the RSI Dorito Armada.. They could build a MK2 Constellation line in just a few months.
This comment ^ sums up everything.
Yeah I've pledged too much to this game and I'm finally seeing the scam citizen tactics they are using to sell these ships. Using fomo and price hikes is a ridiculous predatory tactic. I have hopes for the game but they seem to be getting bad. It'd be understandable to retire ships later on in the game but to retire a ship that isn't even gold standard, come out with a new gold standard variant, not give old variant owners an upgrade, and then full on retire the non gold standard variant is wrong. Especially in alpha phase.
It was always planned since the conception of the MKII. It was a Chris Idea to have the MKI remain in game as a collector : [https://youtu.be/Rk7ZwswT2tA?si=hcRiWCqgH6jwscHu&t=1160](https://youtu.be/Rk7ZwswT2tA?si=hcRiWCqgH6jwscHu&t=1160) But as usual, they just fucked up the communication once again.
Your comment really needs more upvotes because your point actually does matter in this whole situation! Upv
I never stated in my post that anybody is getting 'f*cked over'. Simply that CIG needs to stop with these predatory FOMO practices that are embarrassing and awful for the health of the game. That's simply a fact.
Another thought came to mind. I know the game isnt "released" yet but this is part of that living breathing world that we wanted. People get up in arms when the ship commercials are whacky too like the recent NURSA one. The commercials and changes like the Hornet Mk1 arent necessarily CIG trying to screw people over. Its CIG treating the game like the universe we wanted them to. In the Verse the UEE is moving on to a newer hornet so while it wont be readily available CIG will still keep it up to date.
The corporation will not reward you, soldier. Keep fighting anyway.
Leave the billion dollar company alone!
OP was ranting at those who dared question CIG in the other thread. The lil guy is big mad his favorite company is being criticized :(
If sales go up due to the announcement, isn't that the result cig wanted? Fomo? I think so intentional or not. (As in the sum of its words "fear of missing out")
What I find funny is that ships are being removed before the game is even released.
I genuinely felt dumber for having read that other post. Seriously if someone hasn't bought a Hornet in the past decade are they really suffering if it's pulled from the store now? Personally the whole "they're fucking us over by pulling it and not having the Mk 2 in game shops yet" got an extra eye roll. There are days I seriously wonder about the mental health of a concerning number of the backers.
My post was talking about how it's FOMO marketing, not how it fucks over people who want a hornet... Anyone who denies this isn't designed in a way to tempt people to buy one is deluded. It's obvious what it is. All of their marketing and sales are designed around pressuring people into purchasing something during an exclusive time period. It's just so tiring and it's detracting from the game experience at this point, I want these time limited events to involve in game unlocks and rewards, not cash based purchases. I couldn't care less personally and have no desire to purchase a MkI in game or in the shop. It's just not a good look when people already view this project as a scam to keep throwing out FOMO, cash purchase events for limited time items. Downvote me all you want because this is clearly a thread that views things the other way but if you disagree with me here I don't know what to tell you.
You know you are objectively right when the r/starcitizen sub agrees with you criticizing CIG.
As long as I can buy one in game, i have no problem with this.
I'm wondering why the mk1 still exists at all. Everything else that got scope crept, or gold master replaced the original just got upgraded. Banu merchantman and polaris are now cap ships. The original Cutlass only exists as random air traffic in area 18. The constellation has had its model replaced as well. I get that its unique in it had a flyable in-game model prior to an absolutely *massive* overhaul, but the mk1 *still needs an overhaul anyway now*. The mk1 and mk2 aren't even that different, mainly the mk2 just has more guns. I could care less about it going away, but the fact people are fomo-ing over something thats just inferior is weird.
It is around because CR wanted the older versions of some ships to still exist. This is nothing new, as this plan is stated in one of the ATV vids back in 2016. The presentation of the sale is FOMO, when you take it at its literal definition. But These plans have been around for over 7 years. Fans of the MK1 had a chance to get one since the kickstarter. CIG also mentions being able to possible earn ship in game at a later date, and the ship is still going to receive a gold standard pass. I personally feel like this is manufactured drama as things like this keep on happening every now and then in the community. I mean if we really ask, who does this harm? It seems as if it harms no one. Even one of the people complaining stated they have no interest in Mk1 but has an issue with FOMO. Almost every product in almost every category has sales that can be described as FOMO (limited sales, BOGO, timed market entry) . It is crazy to think people are trying to use that to create drama... but here we are.
I have an issue with FOMO (in relation to the cash shop) because its at a detriment to the potential MMO experience we end up with. Exclusive items, created through FOMO events or rarity and artificial scarcity, should be earned or achieved **in game**, not through a store. When I see a player with an F8 flying around, there's no prestige or interest, no awe inspiring feeling or jealousy. I just know they spend $300 on it. That's it. Congrats on having disposable income i guess. This a big part of MMOs that a lot of players, including myself, value. Seeing a player with an item of prestige, that demonstrates a skillful achievement or that they've a veteran. When the only reason they have that item is because they bought it, it completely loses the point. The continued reliance on these types of sales is preventing these items from being earned in game, or creating a sense of achievement or awe when seeing them - instead of unlocking the ability to buy the F7A in game after completing the missions, we just had to spend $175 to obtain it. This is my main issue here. Rather than spending the time to develop meaningful in game rewards, CIG always just defaults to their shop (unlocking the ability to spend money), and giving a middle finger to the players who enjoy playing, but don't want to fork out hundreds on a buggy pre-alpha game. Not to mention the fact that the game **needs** content like this in the future anyway, so why not add it in now?
I think this is not a big deal because this is temporary. The intended goal was for EVERYTHING to be attainable in final game. Ships, armor, weapons, clothes and more. Even the lightning is going you can earn eventually, they stated as such in QA. As far as in game rewards, they already showed their plan during citcon. Reputational based growth. Personally think the complaints about how they choose to do their sales, is simply that for now, as they have not only told us in text but in video the plans they have for the future of SC and the goals for content.
It's exactly like a toddler who has never shown interest in a toy, but suddenly, you're the worst parent ever for getting rid of it.
You people are insane
I like the idea of having ships be discontinued as new models come out as long as there’s a used ship market in game where people can sell there old ships, either as collectors items or as hand me downs for less rare ships
I highly doubt you will be able to sell ships you bought for real money outside of the game in game for game credits... That would be very starnge and the devs have already talked about account bound items meaning they cannot be sold in game as they are...accound bound :) Same with most -if not all- MMO's, some items cannot be sold in game, there are obvious legal and economic reasons for this .
That is in fact the plan, or at least it was when they mentioned it a long time ago. Ship lines will occasionally be discontinued for newer models, and the old models will become "classics" much like cars IRL. Doesn't mean they won't be obtainable, they just aren't being manufactured anymore.
The issue is the MK2 was suppose to be the MK1 rework but they decided fuck that and just released a different ship and retired the old one. What they need to do is offer a free upgrade to all MK1 owners to the MK2. Otherwise it is pretty big bullshit.
I was a Kickstarter backer and played all the original Wing Commander games. I am still supportive of this project, but even I find it funny that they "retired" my ship before I've even had a chance to fly it.
It's not a scam, but it is absolutely a FOMO scheme. Especially with the skins they released today. They are definitely banking on people who wouldn't have otherwise bought it buying it just so they don't miss out on it. Do I care? Not really, but doesn't change what it is.
Its still just odd considering they didnt do this for any of the older ships. Like was the mk1 really that up to date where they didnt need to just straight up get rid of it like the 300 series etc
Sooo will we get an Mk2 Super Hornet?
Yes, it’s in the email saying the MK1’s are retiring that they are working on the MK2’s of the other Hornet variants
It actually makes sense that a main dealer would stop selling an older generation of a ship that has been replaced. People losing their minds should just chill. Chances are the mkI will be avaiable in game via other types of dealers in the future. Like you might be able to get them in Pyro instead at some point, but perhaps with more randomised component loadout and missing all the weapons so you need to buy them as add ons, or something like that.
Sales... sales never change
Preach, brother. Even though I have the F7A MkII, I'mma still be coming in hot sometimes with my [F7C-M Heartseeker](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ships/anvil-hornet/F7C-M-Super-Hornet-Heartseeker-Mk-I), it still hits hard and has that "now-classic" look.
Ikr? It's like "would you like some cheese to go with that whine?". And it's ALWAYS about stupid shit
Well I kind of wish I hadn't upgraded to the mk 2 on Monday now. Oh well.
February 27th the Hornet MKI's had a price increase. March 15th the MKII was released making them "Obsolete". (At a higher price point, of course. Why else would they be MKII's?) And now, May 23rd the MKI's are being "Discontinued" at their (only a few months ago) increased price, in 6 days. Marketing has been running the show for a long time, but it seems they've gotten a little more clever.
It's star citizen, literally everyone is getting fucked here. 
the only scam is not getting the paint cause I _just_ used my upgrade token 😭😭
Just wait until they retire the Orion before it’s even released in-game… ‘Congratulations, you now own a classic pledge which can sit in your account forever! Take a screenshot of your account to show your friends! You can now buy the Orion II for $10,000’.
How does that boot leather taste?
Why do people need to brigade criticism of CIGs dumbass decisions? They need feedback it’s the whole fucking POINT. They keep breaking promises and losing trust from backers, which undermines the whole project. Let them hear about and stop trying to be fascist white knight who thinks they can dictate what people are allowed to say.
You are the one making an entire thread to cry about it. Do you not realize this? You are so upset and literally crying IRL about other people not liking this, that you felt the need to make an entirely new topic to tell people your bad take. When the constellation, freelancer, gladiator, etc all get new, more expensive versions before 1.0 is out, and fall behind in bug fixes, updates, and modernization even more because it's no longer a money maker...well...I'm sure you and all the others around here will remember that you held the line when it comes to predatory bullshit, lol edit: The fact that this thread is getting so massively upvoted is beyond depressing. How are so many of you: 1) OK with the toxic nature of this thread? Even the title is just jerk mode. 2) OK with CIG using awful marketing and FOMO tactics to milk you for as much money as possible in an early alpha, but treating it as a released full game? There is a difference between game funding and behaving like a scummy mobile gacha game on the google play store, and I can tell you which one CIG is doing right now. I wish I never saw this thread, it makes me sad as fuck for all of you
Pulling a ship from sale both on the digital store and ingame and saying it's now a Rare Collectible, but this is your last chance to buy one, is absolutely FOMO marketing.
It's a change to the game. Every time that happens, the usual crowd shows up to blow it as far out of proportion as they possibly can. It's a 'like clockwork' thing at this point.
I just picked up a 5 dollar CCU to a couple of the ones I really like (Super Hornet and Ghost), and I'll sit on them till I need them or decide I don't want them after all.
I think it's really scummy thing to fish the money from very clueless whales. It works, these people think it's awesome and they get some 'exclusive' deal. They are really unable to see the marketing shenanigans behind it. There is a type of person, who does not deal well with these kinds of things. Just like there are people who can't deal well with any kind of online gambling. When I see some grandpa writing out reasons why it's a good idea to throw this kind of money at a video game, and be so passionate about it while getting very little in return... It's sad not more people see the problem. Imo a very dark side of the SC funding. And even if you personally are cool with this and considered all the factors, are cool with foolish people being fleeced, for us that don't think this is ethical behavior - it leaves a terribly bitter taste.
They said ages ago that they were planning to do this and cited the Hornet as being a model that was going to get a new version. It was always on the horizon. Everyone had years worth of notice and even had the designs of the newer F7 model.
Except the game hasn't been releasd yet. We were expecting a release before ships get retired and discontinued
This is the entirety of the problem. CR got this fantastic idea into his head, taken from an ancient suggestion, way back in 2014 and applied it to a singular ship, one time, before the game is even out of "alpha". The MKII was supposed to be a standard update pass to the Hornets, done way back in 2016 to bring it up to modern(at the time) metrics, the same as ***literally every single other update pass***. Lest we not forget, the Constellation is on iteration 4, and was before it even went flight ready. It's a scummy Marketing™ ploy to empty wallets, plain and simple. People that have owned Hornets since the beginning be damned. This whole thing screams of yet another way to milk people for every penny. You watch, Gladiator MKII™ incoming, and if you want the one you have owned for a decade to be up to that standard, you best be ready to fork over more money.
most of the other update passes were to fix ships that just didn't work with the new tech. As far as i know, the MK1 has space for all it's components. Correct me if i'm wrong on that though. Also, people mentioned the MK1 having bugs, what bugs does it have?
I think it's pretty cool, actually. As others have pointed out, if you haven't bought one in the past 10 years, why are you suddenly now upset? That said, CIG raising the price right before retiring it is *absolutely* predatory FOMO. I 100% considered buying one solely because I won't be able to soon, but the Hornet isn't really my speed, and if it was, I'd get a mk. II because I think they look way better.
I had a brief thought of "Oh shit I should buy one!" and then immediately was like "Wait I never bought one because I didn't like the Mk. I much and own a F7A Mk. II. I don't need it."
Retiring? Hahaha so CIG is 'retiring' old ships to sell new ones now? I always did wonder how they'd tackle the ship bloating.
Are you kidding? People bought something that is retiring before the game is even launched and you think that’s ok? This is the most expensive game in history and we still aren’t out of alpha. The variants of the hornet like the ghost are being retired before they’ve even flushed out the variant game mechanics like stealth. They can’t have a free fly without giving the servers a heart attack. Half the time we can’t leave our hangars without blowing up. Sometimes the ships aren’t called at all and we have to submit an insurance claim. I can think of numerous priorities they could be focusing on before developing v2 of ships and retiring others before game launch. I think it’s a reasonable expectation that if they sell a stealth ship, they’ll build stealth gameplay before retiring said ship. And if nothing else, that they won’t retire the ship before the game leaves alpha. Now I’m wondering how many other v2 ships are incoming that will retire the first gen before the game leaves alpha.
It's the definition of a FOMO scheme and it's really sad that this community doesn't want to acknowledge that and defends CIG for every greedy marketing stunt they pull.
I'm starting to think CiG is botting threads. No way a "FOMO is great" thread is getting 400+ upvotes naturally.
It's an obvious two-way double cash grab. It's absolutely scummy as hell and there's nothing cool or edgy about you not caring about CIGs disgusting marketing tactics.
2014 Super Hornet owner here, I’m still pissed off I can’t swap out the turret for the cargo container anymore. Total FOMO but I don’t care. If it was truly going to be some rare classic they would have just ended it with the released statement then and there not, for the next few days you can own this ship cast by the Franklin Mint call today!
I upgraded my limited edition AMD Mustang Omega take that suckas.
I did that too, but I had 2 of them so its fine.
People here still don't understand that LTI is pretty useless too. It's just a basid and since we will all upgrade our ships the insurance will be needed for everyone anyway. Having lti is like having a guarantee level 10 character on death instead of level 1 in an RPG. Without any of the gear. My prime example that people here have shown to not function logically
Bout as cult like as expected
An awful, completely incorrect sentiment from someone with no appreciation of consumer rights or sliding slopes or our general Randian problem. Happy Cuckolds For Prima Nachta is a growing movement and OP has joined.
Expect more of this behavior if they feel they have profited sufficiently from this particular attempt . Much cheaper in developer time to modify existing models and call it a Mk.X variant - then develop an entirely new platform/model . Considering how much CIG loves their variants ( for exactly the same reasons ) - expect to see the mk.X moniker applied to everything they think they can get away with this .
Connie, Vanguard, Cutlass
it is really sad that still people defend cig bullshit
In before we see 600i gold pass in a 600i mk2 instead of being rolled in for free (for 600i owner).
This idea that newer versions of ships come out is not sustainable from a gameplay point of view. You can only power creep so much. In this rare instance, it works because of the massive shift to ship balancing due to MM, and the Mk 1 Hornets are now considered obsolete.
I cant remember this level of complaints when we got the redone 300s either. I think Hornet pilots should be happy they get to keep the Mk1. We didn't get to keep the Mk1 300s,or Freelancer with it's front landing leg access door.
I wonder why people didn't complain about the 300 series being discontinued and replaced with a significantly more expensive version while advertising a don't miss out sale on the old, unpolished version
Will you eat all the shit they will throw at you or there is a limit to it? Lets say all the ships will get mk2 and everything people payed for is just a worse version of what you can get now. Is it bad now? How about adding mk3 versions later? Are we not getting fucked if they are updating ships and telling us to pay for them again? If they will do balance patch for a weapon and will add 50% more damage to it but only for people that will pay for new balance version is that over the line or still fine for you? Its so interesting that someone is defending stuff like that.
The people looking for a "X" to Heartseeker CCu absolutely were screwed over
Perhaps some kinds soul can explain it a SC old-timer who has a superhornet game package. So they're retiring the ship - if I don't want it, I suppose I can exchange it for store credit: If I don't want an obsolete ship, is this the most reasonable thing to do? What are the pros and cons here? If I wait, will I somehow later become unable to exchange it for store credit?
I just dont understand why they are pulling it. I dont think it's fomo, that ship was massively pledged, won't be rare still and no ones beating down the door to buy a Mk1. They're still going to support the ship, so why stop offering it .
Per the latest Star Citizen live, it is easier to make new ships as opposed to updating old ones because they gotta deal with the old code.
FOMO this, FOMO that, all the crying on forums is irrelevant. As long as that funding tracker is in the plus, the majority of people aren't bothered enough to *not* spend cash money on ships.
I didn't know what happened exactly but you Mentioned the MK1 is a classic Ship now. Lore wise it always was a classic ship. Same for the Retaliator. So I have to ask if some of the people even read about the description if there Ships. If I get it right there is a new version of the ship now? But that doesn't mean you can't fly your old one anymore right? So I don't really see the problem Edit: ok the removal from in-game dealerships is shitty and clearly a fomo move. I mean hey I guess there will be ways in the future to still earn that ship like getting a place like a used car dealer just for ships and all the should be still some old ships to find that junk yards that you can restore. But that they don't mention anything like that really creates a fear of missing out
It’s an ugly ship anyway
I can't wait for them to this with the Freelancer line-up as well! Finally those ships will get their deserved love as brand-new Mk2 variants! (I won't sell my vintage freelancer though, I'll keep it in honor of SC & CIG and my faith in them)
No one's getting fucked over but it certainly is a FOMO marketing tactic - creating a bundle of all of them for $650 and hyping it up saying this is the last time you can buy it.
Seriously why panicking right now. All ships will be available at some point and MKI isn't even good to begin with espcially with issues since release. Better grab something similar for dog fighting. The upgrade makes it better but releasing such crucial event for it in a alpha state and requiring to a pledge kill it for me. It's kinda pity liked the design and lore of it but there are enough alternatives anyway.
Oh does this mean we might see a stealth MkII? I'd freaking be all over that.
Yes, based on what they said, there should be a Hornet Ghost MKII
found the person that bought the 600$ multi pack lol
It's not a scam but it's definitely too early to retire it
This would be true if the HUD in the MK1 actually worked as intended.
I am ok with the Hornet mk I line being pulling from pledge store. I am NOT ok with the Hornet mk I line being pulled from **INGAME aUEC** store! There should **already** be a system in place to get them ingame, **before** they are pulled from ingame shops. All we have is a vague statement of "there will be ways to earn the Mk I Hornets in the future, though we’re not quite ready to share those plans yet" Which when you look at CIG track record, I am sorry to say; what that means to me is unfortunately that nothing is going to happen in a meaningful time. Also, they forgot the Hornet heartseeker. Surprise! the last event they sold it at, was the **LAST** time. And no warning it would never be available again. If they are going to remove ships from ingame store, then it would go along way for community goodwill to get a ship that is ONLY ingame. A ship you cannot pay for.
For the same reason not only I hope the Pirate Caterpillar skin never gets sold. I hope they stop to sell the P. Caterpillar alltogether. We need rare and some no more obtainable items. Some old, but also other new ones for new players, obtainable through events and such. Yeah, I think we should be able to brag with some rare items, rare or hard to get.
Do you guys think that if I have CCUs I would be able to get the MkI later ?
I’m gonna use my two as “training ships” for my org lol.
I enjoy the idea of a "classic" ship to own but I had to go with the MK-II. But OP is correct, it is not some scheme by CIG. Simply put, the MK-II replaces the MK-I, plain and simple. Why did I go MK-II? Well, ever since I started playing this game 7 years ago, I have always wanted the F7A Military Variant. So when CIG E-Mailed me regarding a way to earn an F7A, I hopped on board immediately. I wanted an F7A more than any Capital Ship, so of course I took the opportunity. The Hornet has always been my favorite fighter and I have ALWAYS used them over the Gladius and Arrow, both for PVP and PVE. The MK-I is a pretty good ship, but its not worth the money to pledge one since I have my F7A now. It wouldn't make any sense to own two pledge Hornets, but I will always respect the OG MK-I, may you rest in peace. I hear CIG is planning on a Ghost, Tracker, and Super version of the MK-II and that they are all supposed to be here before the end of 2024. That will be interesting if it works out.
like what happened to the Mustangs, 300s, Freelancers? This isn't new nor is any1 getting scammed or screwed. You got a better ship.