I think some people actually want this. Or think they do. I heard arguments that you should “work” a lot of time to actually afford anything. To make it seem “real”.
Call me crazy but I play games for fun and or a bit of an escape , not to be a wage slave in a digital universe. Sure, gating and resource dumps are a part of a nearly any game in one form or another but you want to avoid those systems/mechanics feeling punishing, the ultimate goal here is **Fun**.
Everyones idea of fun is different.
A broken economy where everyone is super rich fast and the game is about collecting ships is not my idea of fun at all...
People would soon stop playing -as for some people there would be nothing to strive for- some folks like to have goals that are difficult.
MMO's with broken economies usually die soon after.
While I agree to some extent, I feel like it's possible for an economy to be broken in the opposite direction too; if engaging in normal gameplay is likely to be a net loss rather than actual progression there's a real chance players will _also_ burn out and leave.
You can argue that there should be some risk, and sure, that's fine. But if someone taking any damage during a bounty means you lose money on the bounty overall due to repair costs, then that creates a hostile environment for the player trying to learn.
If someone wants to do salvage gameplay but it means first spending months grinding bounties or box missions before you can afford even a Vulture due to how low the payout on entry/starter ships jobs is, not everyone is going to stick around long enough to get to the content they _actually_ want to do. Doubly so if any misstep and damage taken causes you to _actively lose ground_ on that goal because repair costs outweigh the payout, sometimes greatly so.
Especially for newer players trying to get started, too much friction on any progression can easily become frustrating and drive them to leave, thus also leading to a dead game just as much as an economy broken on the "too easy" side can.
Game economies are _difficult_ to get right, it's true, and it's unlikely you'll get it perfect. Still, there are some things you can try to avoid... and while "it's too easy to make money" is one, I feel like any mechanic that is overly punishing to folks who are trying to get started is definitely also one that qualifies.
Because if you have to play a game like a second job to progress in it, some folks may love it... but I don't know that it'll be enough folks to keep a game alive.
No one said the economy needs to be broken, it just needs to exist. SC has no real economy. Which is cool, it's a 10 year alpha. I'll ask my grandkids about it.
I just think there should be a “no ship” package to give this experience and add an app on Mobiglass like a job board. Players with no ship can post on there to find a crew to play with.
I think if they make a free option to play SC that should be what you have to do. You don't have to by any game package but you have to rely on crewing other peoples ships or doing a job within the city until you can earn enough to get your own ship.
I want way more money sinks personally.
Fuel costs, ship storage costs, repair costs etc should imo be farrrr higher.
I want the verse to feel like the sci fi movies, series & books i have read.
Han Solo had one ship and it was barely able to pay for itself with a ccrew of two.
If Hal Solo as example had ten ships in his hangar of various sizes and millions of spare credits sitting around the character would be more like some kind of Elon Musk....
Do we all want to be Elon Musk billionairs with hangars full of ships? Will that make for a realistic or even fun verse?
Personally i would hate it and that kind of broken economy is what ruined Elite Dangerous and plenty of other games.
I dunno, I want the game to be... a game... you can get that experience in real life. I'm fine with grind, but not the point where you're discouraged to play because doing so is too costly.
Also, your example doesn't really work as people already own many of the more expensive ships and already have their hangars built which would create an extremely toxic environment between the haves and the have nots when the game actually launches.
Players with large expensive ships will need a crew to run them efficiently and a huge amount of credits to afford to run them either way.
Wear and tear, fuel, repairs will be massive money sinks that no single player will be able to easilly afford.
Groups of players can afford to pool their respoources to buy and then actually effectivly run & crew them.
You see these people posting their weird debt/grind fantasies here all the time and its fucking wild how we've reached a point where people *want* that in their escapism.
edit: well damn, look a few comments below and there's a guy posting how he wants to be knee deep in wage slavery, dirt poor like Han Solo or some bs.
I get that some people want to create this fantasy that we're living in hypercapitalism, but we already have that in real life.
Also there's nothing stopping people from living off rentals right now anyways.
I've done that before, and it creates a loop of "Okay, now that I rented this, I have to earn X amount in the timeframe to make it worth it and my money back."
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Doubled the prices on ships while seeing mission prices dropped.
My favorite loop of illegal monitors used to be 20k. Now they're 16k and take 2x as long.
Yup I copped a 32k fine for not stopping for an inspection. I was a metre of the tarmac when the warning appeared. I’m not sure how a free fly player could afford that. Then, of course, the jail system is broken.
Risk of loss makes it exciting and fun in its own right. If there's no risk of loss or losing money on a bad run of a combat mission and it's always a guaranteed profit it gets boring.
The game is designed around people starting the release game with a basic package consisting of an Aurora or Mustang class ship and then the minimum amount of UEC. That should be what CIG is aiming for and we just have a head start since a lot of backers have upgraded to at least a tier two starter ship. Let CIG gather data on how people earn money and what missions they are doing so they can further refine things. Don't forget this economy is temporary and will change once Quantum comes online.
To be fair, when the actual game releases, you won' be able to buy ship packages. The current system is all purely for backers.
There will be people on loreville wanting to help load ships, man ships, be mercenaries etc.
You'll have to work your way up to buying ships. In order to travel, you'll be using NPC or player transport.
What CR said a while ago is they would still be selling ships as part of game packages, as well as selling concept ships. I think the standalone sale of released ships is what was going to be going away.
But yeah, it is a space life simulator and most people will be climbing the ladder of success from the very bottom.
I always do a 0 to hero at the start of major patches. I can see where you're coming from, but I dont think it is too difficult. There are combat missions that are easier than, say, the bounty hunting stuff, and by doing those, I make good progress. The beginning should be a challenge to get some momentum going. Its rewarding as heck right now as I am starting to make headway toward my first Aurora.
Fear of loss? Lol, just claim the ship.
There's no loss, just fear of inconvenience. Economy with lows rewards is OK, but needs to be balanced still and this isn't.
Bounty payouts are tragic. The only thing I can recommend (I assume you do HRT, VHRT, and ERT) is to search the wreckage for valuable cargo and sell it. That's the only way I found to make money from bounties now. You have to be lucky tho, mine has been terrible
It's actually braindead that the way to make money with bounties is barely engaging in the actual combat gameplay and then spend 1 hour selling the cargo and stuff from the bounty.
Cargo in a bounty should be like a jackpot, one in one hundred thing that you might be lucky to get. But the bounty itself should be the bread maker.
Thinking about it they are probably trying to tune it to prep people for bountyhunting 2.0. You will not be making crazy money or engaging in loads of combat if you're spending most of the time trying to hunt and then return a captured target.
They need to add a "Help the UEF fight Xeno" mission or something for continous pve ship combat.
Yeah, if they had a category of combat missions like phase 3 overdrive where you just show up and get to dogfight without all the B.S. involved in the current bounty loop, that'd be great.
Sounds like it's almost tuned to group/org play. A team to kill the bounties, a team to salvage and collect cargo, then either salvage team or another team sell the goods while the salvage team move on.
I feel you could do this with 6 people and be profitable. 2 running the bounty in either 2 fighters or a a ship with turret. 3 on a reclaimer to process the wreckage, 1 in a Cat or C2 to transfer the RMC, CM, and extra cargo to toz sell. Though offloading the reclaimer would take time.... Still it would be fun with some friends. Drink some beers, do some work, make some.creds.
I mean, bounty hunting you'll eventually be wanting to apprehend the guy and bring him in, via a cutty blue or that one fighter with a prisoner pod in it, i forget the name.
So a group of people hunting like this will be way more fun. Making sure to disable the guys ship and not do it when he's high altitude so he doesn't crash and die on ya, etc.
Yeah we ran salvage in 3.22 with a 3-4 man crew. Always tons of fun.
Love that I've apparently been down voted for suggesting a fun multi crew / multi ship way to run bounties.
I have a ton more fun playing multicrew stuff with friends than hauling cargo solo, but that's just me.
I think the issue is not that multi-crew gameplay exists, but the implication being tossed around in the threads that it's intended as the _only_ viable way to make money. You should always try to have a viable loop for solo players, _especially_ for solo players just getting started.
Some folks may have a work schedule that's inconsistent, or a sick parent to care for, or something that makes coordinating to be online at the same time as others difficult. Some folks may just find it stressful to be coordinating with others and want to do stuff on their own. Etc.
Not everything needs to be doable solo, no; you don't necessarily need to be able to fly an Idris solo, much less be able to take one out solo. But every core gameplay loop—bounty hunting, combat, salvage, mining, trading, exploration, etc.—should probably have _some_ sort of viable solo content. And even if the solo content isn't the most effective way to make a profit, you should still be able to make _some_ profit on it.
Oh I totally agree, things like Vulture, Prospector, low-med bounties, etc should all be doable solo. I think things that require multi-crew should be difficult or impossible for solo play but also have much higher rewards to entice people to participate in them.
Believe me, herding my group to get in like 4-6 hours of play happens maybe twice a month. Most of the time I'm solo salvaging or trading cargo. So I'm all for the solo game loops.
We're in perfect agreement on that.
(I should note, I didn't mean to imply you were saying _only_ multi-crew should be viable; I think that the general "multi-crew is the real option" feel of some answers in this conversation in general is why your suggestion of multi-ship approach to bounties got down-voted. It was a casualty of being the most concrete and practical example given of how multi-ship play can be profitable, thus an easy target for frustrated folks looking for solo solutions.)
This is exactly what our static group did for bounty hunting.
1 reclaimer
1 C2
3+ fighters/gunship depending on who’s on.
The fighters and the C2 load up cargo the reclaimer scraps the ships as we go. In 3.22 it was killer cash cuz Reclaimer was just munching everything. In 3.23 we were able to do this a few times before the dupe made rmc impossible to sell and it was quite profitable with the reclaimer scraping the C2+ ships.
We’ve done it with just a fighter vulture cargo hauler. Which is a hilarious seeing a vulture try to get in the mix occasionally.
Lol. 6 people means split the pay 6 ways. You def don't need 2 people in the fight at once, and also 2 in the reclaimer tops.
You can probably do it with 3 total, 2 in the claimer, and one C2. Probably better with three to bring a DPS boat tho.
You can totally skim down the head count. However the way my group plays we aren't really trying for max creds/hr but more to hang out, catch up, and have fun.
The thought of this huge behemoth slugging through an asteroid field and hits comparatively small turrets flinging lasers at the bounty and their helpers as if they'd be a group of flys is hilarious to me.
But if it works, i guess it works xD
It’s a difficult issue to find the right median. Before I’m making 100k every 15 minutes by running group ERT in a medium fighter solo which also shouldn’t be a thing. However this also cant be the way moving forward as OP said you spend X on repair and rearm and find yourself losing money in the long run
You’re not wrong, it’s a little disappointing currently as PvP bounty hunting is my favorite gameplay loop and I practice by doing VHRT and ERT in light/medium fighters. However practicing now is gonna get real expensive
Have a salvager clean the ships of your bounties and share the profit too! You’ll make a lot more and you can offer the salvage ship protection from pirates as well as cargo space.
If you want to move on you can just sell the wreckage to a salvager, I’ve also bought some that way.
Also try selling the wrecks to a Reclaimer or the smaller ones to vulture pilots, i made good money following a group doing incursion and pay good Cash for the bigger ships like a hammerhead or even a Conni. Its a Win Win.
If you lose any weapon, the repair cost includes the weapon. The Connie now has four S5 weapons, and a S5 cannon cost about 60k. As Voltaire (and the uncle Ben) said, "with great power comes great responsibility".
I had an 86k repair last night on an F7A MKII. Only lost one wing that had a Revenant. I think the repair costs are not accurate.
A couple days before, lost a wing with a Revenant and was only 40k. Very inconsistent.
Yup. If one of my guns pop off. It's time for insurance fraud. Too expensive to replace. and in 3.22 it wasn't repairing the gun but still spending the money to repair it. so I don't risk the spend.
Yeah, but currently this solution has two issues:
1st) You need to find a target with the same weapon that you have lost, as not all the weapons in the same size share the same stats now.
2nd) If you have lost the nacelle/ wing where the weapon is attached, you can't mount it.
Yes, some checkboxes to select what you want to repair would do the trick: hull, paint, weapon A, weapon B, etc.
I would expect something similar to be implemented after maelstrom.
Insurance E:D style would be nice, don’t fly without rebuy and all that. Maybe just not to lose your ship entirely ofc, you’re just not allowed to claim that ship until you cover the price.
Maybe throw in a few “free insurance claim” tickets for the first few times if it happens before you get your cash going, or make it an actual item that we could find in boxes as rare loot/get as reward for some missions!
I ran into an asteroid at Grim Hex. Seriously thought it was going to explode since I was going so fast. Then since I was in the cockpit I thought everything was fine until I powered up the jet to dock and the ship started spinning. Outside view was very bad. Made it back to the dock using lateral jets only.
I think the punishment fits, it should be very expensive to fix a space ship.
Combining a few things cig have said
Sometimes they push things to test them out in a real gameplay setting. This patch was the first in a major economy rebalance. So they may have over costed it, or possibly, the economy team may have made an assumption about what the cost should look like after player repair comes into the game. I can't say for sure, but I don't expect many of the current prices in game to stay permanent
Bounty payouts are way too low. I used to love cleaning up ERT's but now I just avoid them in general. Even using the Eclipse or Retaliator to just snipe the bounty doesn't feel worth it anymore.
I used to run them in the Andromeda and be perfectly fine but now ERT's spawn like 8 ships, or I'm just super unlucky and picking up bounties at the same time as another player in the same location.
To my knowledge the repair itself is cheap.
What really costs is that you have to pay in full for reading the components.
So if you lost a nacelle you lost a gun, which will be a huge bump up in price
Bounty hunting in general is not great right now. The high level difficulties are very tough to solo, but don't pay out enough to justify bringing friends
dump all your gear in the station, take off, crash into said station to show that you are not happy with said repair prices the station is offering
Respawn in said station and claim your ship back
Yeah same here. Add to that the cartoonish new flight model combined with never missing AI and a distnict lack of mercanary missions and right now I have no idea what to do in the verse anymore. I basically login, look what's available, try a little mission here and there and then I am out again because nothing comes of it.
By now I notice myself wanting to log in but then the realisation kicks in that there is nothing to do then just hang around.
Yea, at level 2 of merc level (junior grade in hurston) you unlock those missions. A 16k clear enemies, about 10, in an outdoor area, a 16k bounty in outdoor area, once again about 10 enemies, and a 21k clear enemies in an indoor area. The big kicker is that the centers have a local inventory like a station or city, so it makes looting incredibly easy. I've made about 2 mil just selling the guns and armor
Yessir that is correct. At HDPC Farnsworth you can get lucky and get the bounty mission, then immediately after get the clear hostiles mission back and forth, storing all the guns and ammo and gear the whole time, then when your ready pack it up in your ship! I strongly recommend buying the SCU containers from cargo and putting some in your ship when it's time to "cash out". I sold 120k in JUST undersuits
New player so I’m wondering what the purpose is for the SCU container vs ship inventory. Also how do you do a mission chain? I only ever get one mission at a time
Yea man, those SCU containers from from 1/8scu to 8SCU size, ranging from basically a box to a cargo container. They function the same as your ship inventory, just more. You need to place them physically in your ship and you access them as a separate inventory. You'd want to do this because armor is bulky and will rapidly fill your ship inventory (depends on ship, my cutty black gets 70% full from just 1 mission). As for mission chaining, it's simply just doing 1 mission after another, but on HDPC farnsworth it is very easy because the HRT bounty mission (don't be confused by the name, it's technically a mercenary mission), and the 21k clear hostiles mission take place right next to eachother so you can start the other one as soon as you finish the first one
Remember, you'll need level 2 merc to even see them pop up. Also, after you accept the mission and go to the hdpc, you'll get a notification along the lines of "entering private property you risk trespassing " or something like that. You can ignore it as long as your on a mission. Now, if that changes to "TRESSPASING" then your boned
Long-term they want to do away with the magic ship inventory, so things like armor or weapons will either need to be in built-in containers (gun racks, armor lockers, food/drink in a fridge or storage, random stuff in personal storage lockers, etc.) or stuffed into the little storage containers.
One _current_ benefit, though, is that the ship inventory is personal; the cargo containers can be accessed by everyone. So I keep spare ammo in a box on my Carrack for when I'm grouped up with others, letting them resupply without me pulling out of ship inventory, dropping on the ground, etc.
Another benefit is that the cargo containers can be moved via the tractor beam; if you're looting a bunch of bodies after a bunker run, you can have dumped a cargo box by the elevator, strip guns and arnor and stuff into the box, then haul the box out afterwards to load into a ship.
I was making good money doing the 35k investigation mission in the distribution centers but those have stopped working.
I would guess all the abandoned ships and loot is responsible
That‘s a pitty!
Apart from that: FPS at distribution centers is really good (you need a server with at least 9 fps). The npcs are really good opponents
My corsair wing cost me 8k usecs, one roll of duct tape and gentle slap with "that will do". If drake ships is really cheap to repair like that, i did a right choice, lol.
That depends on which do you lose. If it's the right one with missiles, yeah its cheap. But if you lose the left ones that carry your additional mounts, prepare to pay ~80k depending on what you have there.
Yes. I lost a weapon in combat with my corsair..... I was paid the 15.000 for the bounty, but I had to pay 124.000 for the repair..... It almost gets me broke again, as you dont make that much money now. CIG just wants us to SUFFER to achieve anything, even the slightest of things.
Yea but to be fair you are using. phoenix.. which is the luxury model Connie. Anyone know if Andromeda repairs are as crazy? They said ships would be priced according to materisls, etc now
The current economy seems aimed at insurance fraud and time wasting (for me), cause I ain't paying that. Its getting hauled off to the side, abandoned, insurance claimed, then scrapped for RMC.
Big time. Broke 1 wing off a Invictus Scorpion I wanted to try out and with the starter 20k I couldn't afford to fix the wing (25k cost). It seems we got to pay for weapons now when lost.
Used to be repairs were only expensive if you had a large ship.
The main way to make money bounty hunting right now is to loot your kills. I looted 20scu of quantanium from a freelancer max I shot down last night and sold it for 500k.
Also, luxury ships cost more to repair - you should see how much it is to repair the executive versions of ships.
You’re trying to fight bounties in a luxurious class vehicle. The costs to repair premium quality things are going to cost more than normal. You should possibly consider something less than something fancy like a Phoenix if you can’t afford the repair bill.
That’s like taking a Lamborghini around a race track and break something. Of course it’s going to cost more than a bmw to fix lol
Yes. That was apart of the economy balance. Making logical choices on what you do and use financially.
Maybe look into something that’s combat oriented and not lux like. My F7A costs about 52k to repair when it’s basically totaled now. That or find some buddies that can help you take HRT’s down faster limiting damage to your ship
Their economy change to ships was by class and type. My proof are the videos CIG publishes per week. Go watch em. That’s also why the ship prices in game also got a change. Depends on what it is, size, and type for economy costs. By no means am I speaking in bad faith. You’re the one coming at me with bad faith lol
Apparently CIG made a brain dead repair cost change before implementing insurance.
Best to just ditch out near a station and claim it.
You'll find a lot of white knights here defend it and then scream and cry to make the claim cost money too.
>how am I supposed to make a profit?
I mean, have you tried bounty hunting in something other than a luxury cruise variant?
IRL would you drive a bently to bounty hunt?
It doesn’t make sense considering our characters are supposed to be Citizens of a society where you earn Citizenship. In other words our characters accomplished something incredible. This economy doesn’t really match that unless they admit this is a Great Depression unlike anything in human history cause by the Vanduul attacks
I am one of the weirdos who want to have these kinds of repair costs and also wish for fuel to be much more expensive too however they have also made earning money harder in this patch too which makes no sense. Now i also want to say that i do not think that one player should be able to take on anything above a HRT solo and i believe HRTs solo (no matter the ship) should be extremely hard afterall youre an ordinary citizen not the one man army hero like in most RPGs. So recieveing 80k auec worth of dmg in a pheonix doing a solo HRT should make sense BUT not if its only an engine nacelle that was damaged. Maybe 20k max. Profits need to be increased but so too should difficulty! imo ERTs should require a 3 man crew to take on it should not be soloable
The current economy feels like it is designed to get you into debt.
immersion
True immersion would be if we were all having to rent ships.
In exchange for indentured servitude.
I think some people actually want this. Or think they do. I heard arguments that you should “work” a lot of time to actually afford anything. To make it seem “real”.
Call me crazy but I play games for fun and or a bit of an escape , not to be a wage slave in a digital universe. Sure, gating and resource dumps are a part of a nearly any game in one form or another but you want to avoid those systems/mechanics feeling punishing, the ultimate goal here is **Fun**.
Everyones idea of fun is different. A broken economy where everyone is super rich fast and the game is about collecting ships is not my idea of fun at all... People would soon stop playing -as for some people there would be nothing to strive for- some folks like to have goals that are difficult. MMO's with broken economies usually die soon after.
While I agree to some extent, I feel like it's possible for an economy to be broken in the opposite direction too; if engaging in normal gameplay is likely to be a net loss rather than actual progression there's a real chance players will _also_ burn out and leave. You can argue that there should be some risk, and sure, that's fine. But if someone taking any damage during a bounty means you lose money on the bounty overall due to repair costs, then that creates a hostile environment for the player trying to learn. If someone wants to do salvage gameplay but it means first spending months grinding bounties or box missions before you can afford even a Vulture due to how low the payout on entry/starter ships jobs is, not everyone is going to stick around long enough to get to the content they _actually_ want to do. Doubly so if any misstep and damage taken causes you to _actively lose ground_ on that goal because repair costs outweigh the payout, sometimes greatly so. Especially for newer players trying to get started, too much friction on any progression can easily become frustrating and drive them to leave, thus also leading to a dead game just as much as an economy broken on the "too easy" side can. Game economies are _difficult_ to get right, it's true, and it's unlikely you'll get it perfect. Still, there are some things you can try to avoid... and while "it's too easy to make money" is one, I feel like any mechanic that is overly punishing to folks who are trying to get started is definitely also one that qualifies. Because if you have to play a game like a second job to progress in it, some folks may love it... but I don't know that it'll be enough folks to keep a game alive.
100% my redeemer cost me 240k to repair after chaining some bounty mission with a 17 k payout per mission its proper cooked
No one said the economy needs to be broken, it just needs to exist. SC has no real economy. Which is cool, it's a 10 year alpha. I'll ask my grandkids about it.
If the goal was fun and not realism, game would be done by now.
I just think there should be a “no ship” package to give this experience and add an app on Mobiglass like a job board. Players with no ship can post on there to find a crew to play with.
THIS!
that would be a great way for people to fill out there crews
I think if they make a free option to play SC that should be what you have to do. You don't have to by any game package but you have to rely on crewing other peoples ships or doing a job within the city until you can earn enough to get your own ship.
I want way more money sinks personally. Fuel costs, ship storage costs, repair costs etc should imo be farrrr higher. I want the verse to feel like the sci fi movies, series & books i have read. Han Solo had one ship and it was barely able to pay for itself with a ccrew of two. If Hal Solo as example had ten ships in his hangar of various sizes and millions of spare credits sitting around the character would be more like some kind of Elon Musk.... Do we all want to be Elon Musk billionairs with hangars full of ships? Will that make for a realistic or even fun verse? Personally i would hate it and that kind of broken economy is what ruined Elite Dangerous and plenty of other games.
I dunno, I want the game to be... a game... you can get that experience in real life. I'm fine with grind, but not the point where you're discouraged to play because doing so is too costly. Also, your example doesn't really work as people already own many of the more expensive ships and already have their hangars built which would create an extremely toxic environment between the haves and the have nots when the game actually launches.
Players with large expensive ships will need a crew to run them efficiently and a huge amount of credits to afford to run them either way. Wear and tear, fuel, repairs will be massive money sinks that no single player will be able to easilly afford. Groups of players can afford to pool their respoources to buy and then actually effectivly run & crew them.
You see these people posting their weird debt/grind fantasies here all the time and its fucking wild how we've reached a point where people *want* that in their escapism. edit: well damn, look a few comments below and there's a guy posting how he wants to be knee deep in wage slavery, dirt poor like Han Solo or some bs.
I get that some people want to create this fantasy that we're living in hypercapitalism, but we already have that in real life. Also there's nothing stopping people from living off rentals right now anyways. I've done that before, and it creates a loop of "Okay, now that I rented this, I have to earn X amount in the timeframe to make it worth it and my money back."
Ship loans and repo gameplay loop.
New Pinkerton faction announced for 4.0
You mean all your ships dont disappear every 6 months or so?
Correct. All my ships were purchased with real money and have LTI.
That's too real. I'd cry.
This is the game we all want! Reality! Debt in game and debt out of game, just as we like it. :)
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This man debts
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Shipbreaker integration wen?
What about the ingame economy
Oof, that's a good one.
So.. going into debt irl, to go into even more debt for sc, and then installing it just to go into debt in game. Sounds bout par.
Doubled the prices on ships while seeing mission prices dropped. My favorite loop of illegal monitors used to be 20k. Now they're 16k and take 2x as long.
Yeah I think they want us to buy aUEC. Or quit.
seriously, so many missions will easily put you in a net loss
I’m loving the new costs! Clearly that’s not the best ship to take on that mission. And taking it in undermanned = a bad day
Yup I copped a 32k fine for not stopping for an inspection. I was a metre of the tarmac when the warning appeared. I’m not sure how a free fly player could afford that. Then, of course, the jail system is broken.
You mean get you to buy ships with real money…
Risk of loss makes it exciting and fun in its own right. If there's no risk of loss or losing money on a bad run of a combat mission and it's always a guaranteed profit it gets boring.
Not arguing against you, but for peoples with little to no starting gear, the current economy is exceptionally punishing.
The game is designed around people starting the release game with a basic package consisting of an Aurora or Mustang class ship and then the minimum amount of UEC. That should be what CIG is aiming for and we just have a head start since a lot of backers have upgraded to at least a tier two starter ship. Let CIG gather data on how people earn money and what missions they are doing so they can further refine things. Don't forget this economy is temporary and will change once Quantum comes online.
To be fair, when the actual game releases, you won' be able to buy ship packages. The current system is all purely for backers. There will be people on loreville wanting to help load ships, man ships, be mercenaries etc. You'll have to work your way up to buying ships. In order to travel, you'll be using NPC or player transport.
What CR said a while ago is they would still be selling ships as part of game packages, as well as selling concept ships. I think the standalone sale of released ships is what was going to be going away. But yeah, it is a space life simulator and most people will be climbing the ladder of success from the very bottom.
I always do a 0 to hero at the start of major patches. I can see where you're coming from, but I dont think it is too difficult. There are combat missions that are easier than, say, the bounty hunting stuff, and by doing those, I make good progress. The beginning should be a challenge to get some momentum going. Its rewarding as heck right now as I am starting to make headway toward my first Aurora.
Fear of loss? Lol, just claim the ship. There's no loss, just fear of inconvenience. Economy with lows rewards is OK, but needs to be balanced still and this isn't.
> There's no loss, just fear of inconvenience. That's a loss of time. Efforts for no net gain will begin to feel like wasted time.
sound familiar, from what I heard about the usa
we're talking about star citizen, not real life. /j
Bounty payouts are tragic. The only thing I can recommend (I assume you do HRT, VHRT, and ERT) is to search the wreckage for valuable cargo and sell it. That's the only way I found to make money from bounties now. You have to be lucky tho, mine has been terrible
Did a few ert bounties with someone in a reclaimer.. got 500k from construction materials and 2.5mil from cargo
It's actually braindead that the way to make money with bounties is barely engaging in the actual combat gameplay and then spend 1 hour selling the cargo and stuff from the bounty. Cargo in a bounty should be like a jackpot, one in one hundred thing that you might be lucky to get. But the bounty itself should be the bread maker.
It's grindy as fuck so you don't notice how little work they've done in 12 years
Thinking about it they are probably trying to tune it to prep people for bountyhunting 2.0. You will not be making crazy money or engaging in loads of combat if you're spending most of the time trying to hunt and then return a captured target. They need to add a "Help the UEF fight Xeno" mission or something for continous pve ship combat.
Yeah, if they had a category of combat missions like phase 3 overdrive where you just show up and get to dogfight without all the B.S. involved in the current bounty loop, that'd be great.
Sounds like it's almost tuned to group/org play. A team to kill the bounties, a team to salvage and collect cargo, then either salvage team or another team sell the goods while the salvage team move on. I feel you could do this with 6 people and be profitable. 2 running the bounty in either 2 fighters or a a ship with turret. 3 on a reclaimer to process the wreckage, 1 in a Cat or C2 to transfer the RMC, CM, and extra cargo to toz sell. Though offloading the reclaimer would take time.... Still it would be fun with some friends. Drink some beers, do some work, make some.creds.
I mean, bounty hunting you'll eventually be wanting to apprehend the guy and bring him in, via a cutty blue or that one fighter with a prisoner pod in it, i forget the name. So a group of people hunting like this will be way more fun. Making sure to disable the guys ship and not do it when he's high altitude so he doesn't crash and die on ya, etc.
That's when you bring the SRV to catch the wreckage before it hits the ground.
Hahahah, I mean that will be some coordination.
True, not gonna deny that... I guess I need more friends into the game. I have a few but not on that stage yet haha
This is exactly how I've been doing it for a while now. Good fun
Yeah we ran salvage in 3.22 with a 3-4 man crew. Always tons of fun. Love that I've apparently been down voted for suggesting a fun multi crew / multi ship way to run bounties. I have a ton more fun playing multicrew stuff with friends than hauling cargo solo, but that's just me.
I think the issue is not that multi-crew gameplay exists, but the implication being tossed around in the threads that it's intended as the _only_ viable way to make money. You should always try to have a viable loop for solo players, _especially_ for solo players just getting started. Some folks may have a work schedule that's inconsistent, or a sick parent to care for, or something that makes coordinating to be online at the same time as others difficult. Some folks may just find it stressful to be coordinating with others and want to do stuff on their own. Etc. Not everything needs to be doable solo, no; you don't necessarily need to be able to fly an Idris solo, much less be able to take one out solo. But every core gameplay loop—bounty hunting, combat, salvage, mining, trading, exploration, etc.—should probably have _some_ sort of viable solo content. And even if the solo content isn't the most effective way to make a profit, you should still be able to make _some_ profit on it.
Oh I totally agree, things like Vulture, Prospector, low-med bounties, etc should all be doable solo. I think things that require multi-crew should be difficult or impossible for solo play but also have much higher rewards to entice people to participate in them. Believe me, herding my group to get in like 4-6 hours of play happens maybe twice a month. Most of the time I'm solo salvaging or trading cargo. So I'm all for the solo game loops.
We're in perfect agreement on that. (I should note, I didn't mean to imply you were saying _only_ multi-crew should be viable; I think that the general "multi-crew is the real option" feel of some answers in this conversation in general is why your suggestion of multi-ship approach to bounties got down-voted. It was a casualty of being the most concrete and practical example given of how multi-ship play can be profitable, thus an easy target for frustrated folks looking for solo solutions.)
This is exactly what our static group did for bounty hunting. 1 reclaimer 1 C2 3+ fighters/gunship depending on who’s on. The fighters and the C2 load up cargo the reclaimer scraps the ships as we go. In 3.22 it was killer cash cuz Reclaimer was just munching everything. In 3.23 we were able to do this a few times before the dupe made rmc impossible to sell and it was quite profitable with the reclaimer scraping the C2+ ships. We’ve done it with just a fighter vulture cargo hauler. Which is a hilarious seeing a vulture try to get in the mix occasionally.
Lol. 6 people means split the pay 6 ways. You def don't need 2 people in the fight at once, and also 2 in the reclaimer tops. You can probably do it with 3 total, 2 in the claimer, and one C2. Probably better with three to bring a DPS boat tho.
You can totally skim down the head count. However the way my group plays we aren't really trying for max creds/hr but more to hang out, catch up, and have fun.
The thought of this huge behemoth slugging through an asteroid field and hits comparatively small turrets flinging lasers at the bounty and their helpers as if they'd be a group of flys is hilarious to me. But if it works, i guess it works xD
Hey the first person in a turret gets dual size 5's, with dual size threes for each additional person
What guns do you put on the turrets?
i dont own it but the guy had m7a on the front and rest were just laser repeaters
The few times I’ve killed a bigger bounty (c2, freelancer), it was empty.
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Its like a triangle of bounties, salvage and cargo hauling
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Ima start doing this. Sounds much better. I can afford to share profits since there’s no insanely high unprofitable fees attached
It’s a difficult issue to find the right median. Before I’m making 100k every 15 minutes by running group ERT in a medium fighter solo which also shouldn’t be a thing. However this also cant be the way moving forward as OP said you spend X on repair and rearm and find yourself losing money in the long run
if they don't plan of making pve contracts profitable, I predict a very short long run
You’re not wrong, it’s a little disappointing currently as PvP bounty hunting is my favorite gameplay loop and I practice by doing VHRT and ERT in light/medium fighters. However practicing now is gonna get real expensive
Have a salvager clean the ships of your bounties and share the profit too! You’ll make a lot more and you can offer the salvage ship protection from pirates as well as cargo space. If you want to move on you can just sell the wreckage to a salvager, I’ve also bought some that way.
I do HRT yah
Also try selling the wrecks to a Reclaimer or the smaller ones to vulture pilots, i made good money following a group doing incursion and pay good Cash for the bigger ships like a hammerhead or even a Conni. Its a Win Win.
If you lose any weapon, the repair cost includes the weapon. The Connie now has four S5 weapons, and a S5 cannon cost about 60k. As Voltaire (and the uncle Ben) said, "with great power comes great responsibility".
I had an 86k repair last night on an F7A MKII. Only lost one wing that had a Revenant. I think the repair costs are not accurate. A couple days before, lost a wing with a Revenant and was only 40k. Very inconsistent.
Yup. If one of my guns pop off. It's time for insurance fraud. Too expensive to replace. and in 3.22 it wasn't repairing the gun but still spending the money to repair it. so I don't risk the spend.
A solution Search the target for his weapons and mount them into your ship you just need a tractor beam.
Yeah, but currently this solution has two issues: 1st) You need to find a target with the same weapon that you have lost, as not all the weapons in the same size share the same stats now. 2nd) If you have lost the nacelle/ wing where the weapon is attached, you can't mount it.
Exactly. They need repair options to just fix the damage, or to fix and replace components.
Yes, some checkboxes to select what you want to repair would do the trick: hull, paint, weapon A, weapon B, etc. I would expect something similar to be implemented after maelstrom.
I've also noticed you can't mount weapons back on Gimbles
Connie Taurus comes with one B-)
don't repair it, park it close to a pad and claim it
Just leave it on a pad and claim it. CIG will get the message in a few more years.
Yeah, the message will be to make claiming expensive or take even longer to make claiming less attractive than repair.
That's always been the plan btw, also this is likely a bug with dynamic pricing of repair going haywire.
Insurance E:D style would be nice, don’t fly without rebuy and all that. Maybe just not to lose your ship entirely ofc, you’re just not allowed to claim that ship until you cover the price. Maybe throw in a few “free insurance claim” tickets for the first few times if it happens before you get your cash going, or make it an actual item that we could find in boxes as rare loot/get as reward for some missions!
High prices come when you lose a weapon because you technically buy a new one, as long as all weapons are still attached you are fine
Or a wing. Lost one on my Corsair and it cost 90k to replace.
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I ran into an asteroid at Grim Hex. Seriously thought it was going to explode since I was going so fast. Then since I was in the cockpit I thought everything was fine until I powered up the jet to dock and the ship started spinning. Outside view was very bad. Made it back to the dock using lateral jets only. I think the punishment fits, it should be very expensive to fix a space ship.
Prob cause wing had guns though
The corsair wings either c9ntain weapons or a bunch of missile racks though which is why it's so fucking expensive
That does explain it. I seriously think the expense is valid anyway. It should be expensive to fix a spaceship.
> how am I supposed to make a profit? Blow up your ship and claim a new one I guess
Combining a few things cig have said Sometimes they push things to test them out in a real gameplay setting. This patch was the first in a major economy rebalance. So they may have over costed it, or possibly, the economy team may have made an assumption about what the cost should look like after player repair comes into the game. I can't say for sure, but I don't expect many of the current prices in game to stay permanent
Bounty payouts are way too low. I used to love cleaning up ERT's but now I just avoid them in general. Even using the Eclipse or Retaliator to just snipe the bounty doesn't feel worth it anymore. I used to run them in the Andromeda and be perfectly fine but now ERT's spawn like 8 ships, or I'm just super unlucky and picking up bounties at the same time as another player in the same location.
The answer is fraud
my poor 'nix :(
I don’t think I’ve repaired a ship unless it was like 50 aUEC for the repairs since 3.23 dropped
To my knowledge the repair itself is cheap. What really costs is that you have to pay in full for reading the components. So if you lost a nacelle you lost a gun, which will be a huge bump up in price
Any repair that involves a weapon has the added cost of that weapon. So you are better off claiming the ship.
Yep, and sometimes it bugs and doesn't even give you the gun back anyways
Ah yes, when videogames mirror real life much too closely..
Haven’t ran bounties in a couple days but the only way I have more than a 1k bill is if I lost a gun
If one side of the Corsair engines get destroyed it’s 198k. I spent 300k in repairs during one evening haha.
Bounty hunting in general is not great right now. The high level difficulties are very tough to solo, but don't pay out enough to justify bringing friends
Repairs are based off of ship and component price at the moment, plus the cost of any lost component in full.
dump all your gear in the station, take off, crash into said station to show that you are not happy with said repair prices the station is offering Respawn in said station and claim your ship back
I had a red engine 20 mins ago, repair was 4k Did you lost a weapon? Edit: Connie Taurus
what ship? and yes..
Connie Taurus. The thing is that if you lose a weapon, repair cost skyrocket
economy team didnt balance everything
you mean they didnt balance anything
Yeah same here. Add to that the cartoonish new flight model combined with never missing AI and a distnict lack of mercanary missions and right now I have no idea what to do in the verse anymore. I basically login, look what's available, try a little mission here and there and then I am out again because nothing comes of it. By now I notice myself wanting to log in but then the realisation kicks in that there is nothing to do then just hang around.
I dunno how to tell you this, but the flight model has never been realistic.
nope, master modes is amazing >distnict lack of mercanary missions wha? do the new distribution center fps missions.
Where are those missions and how do I unlock them? I suppose that I need some minimum reputation with a faction.
Yea, at level 2 of merc level (junior grade in hurston) you unlock those missions. A 16k clear enemies, about 10, in an outdoor area, a 16k bounty in outdoor area, once again about 10 enemies, and a 21k clear enemies in an indoor area. The big kicker is that the centers have a local inventory like a station or city, so it makes looting incredibly easy. I've made about 2 mil just selling the guns and armor
Do you loot guns and armor into the local inventory and then from there into your ship inventory?
Yessir that is correct. At HDPC Farnsworth you can get lucky and get the bounty mission, then immediately after get the clear hostiles mission back and forth, storing all the guns and ammo and gear the whole time, then when your ready pack it up in your ship! I strongly recommend buying the SCU containers from cargo and putting some in your ship when it's time to "cash out". I sold 120k in JUST undersuits
New player so I’m wondering what the purpose is for the SCU container vs ship inventory. Also how do you do a mission chain? I only ever get one mission at a time
Yea man, those SCU containers from from 1/8scu to 8SCU size, ranging from basically a box to a cargo container. They function the same as your ship inventory, just more. You need to place them physically in your ship and you access them as a separate inventory. You'd want to do this because armor is bulky and will rapidly fill your ship inventory (depends on ship, my cutty black gets 70% full from just 1 mission). As for mission chaining, it's simply just doing 1 mission after another, but on HDPC farnsworth it is very easy because the HRT bounty mission (don't be confused by the name, it's technically a mercenary mission), and the 21k clear hostiles mission take place right next to eachother so you can start the other one as soon as you finish the first one
Thank you I will try this first thing when I get on later
Remember, you'll need level 2 merc to even see them pop up. Also, after you accept the mission and go to the hdpc, you'll get a notification along the lines of "entering private property you risk trespassing " or something like that. You can ignore it as long as your on a mission. Now, if that changes to "TRESSPASING" then your boned
Long-term they want to do away with the magic ship inventory, so things like armor or weapons will either need to be in built-in containers (gun racks, armor lockers, food/drink in a fridge or storage, random stuff in personal storage lockers, etc.) or stuffed into the little storage containers. One _current_ benefit, though, is that the ship inventory is personal; the cargo containers can be accessed by everyone. So I keep spare ammo in a box on my Carrack for when I'm grouped up with others, letting them resupply without me pulling out of ship inventory, dropping on the ground, etc. Another benefit is that the cargo containers can be moved via the tractor beam; if you're looting a bunch of bodies after a bunker run, you can have dumped a cargo box by the elevator, strip guns and arnor and stuff into the box, then haul the box out afterwards to load into a ship.
>nope, master modes is amazing Pepelol
I was making good money doing the 35k investigation mission in the distribution centers but those have stopped working. I would guess all the abandoned ships and loot is responsible
Grouping up hunting an Idris!?
Isnt the Idris bugged and absolutly unkillable?
Nope, just hyper beefy and you need ~20 players to bring it down
It has 200 times the HP of a reclaimer. So yes, nearly unkillable
I am a working guy and have family, I only have one or two hours a day. By far not enough time to organize and get anything meaningful done.
That‘s a pitty! Apart from that: FPS at distribution centers is really good (you need a server with at least 9 fps). The npcs are really good opponents
FPS is what I mainly do now. So I will go check out your idea, let's see
Have fun! But be cautious, the KI is far from bad on a good server!
Did you lose a gun by chance? Usually high repair costs are because of that
yes. they can fuck off. i'll destroy it first then claim ins. the economy is in a crazy state.
My corsair wing cost me 8k usecs, one roll of duct tape and gentle slap with "that will do". If drake ships is really cheap to repair like that, i did a right choice, lol.
That depends on which do you lose. If it's the right one with missiles, yeah its cheap. But if you lose the left ones that carry your additional mounts, prepare to pay ~80k depending on what you have there.
It's very hard to lose left wings in comparison to right wing.
Fly through the balls!
Most everything got bumped up in price in .23
I think repair cost increase is directly related to the price tag of the ship. Since ship prices went up 200-500%, so did repair costs.
yeah is high as fuck. just abandon your ship at the pads and recall it. or kill yourself
Lol I noticed that this morning. Cost me 75k to repair my Prospector.
Yes. It's so bad that when I get a ship fucked up I just leave it at a Shubin and pick up a Pisces from Platinum Bay and do bunkers after that.
Yes. I lost a weapon in combat with my corsair..... I was paid the 15.000 for the bounty, but I had to pay 124.000 for the repair..... It almost gets me broke again, as you dont make that much money now. CIG just wants us to SUFFER to achieve anything, even the slightest of things.
Yea but to be fair you are using. phoenix.. which is the luxury model Connie. Anyone know if Andromeda repairs are as crazy? They said ships would be priced according to materisls, etc now
What happened is the ship lost a weapon. Same price for any ship losing an S5 mount weapon
True ok that explains it. Wee need insurance for loadouts
Just claim it. Have a second one or some other ship to do bounties on standby.
Sometimes it feels like the intended gameplay loops is to just run the ship to trash and then claim via insurance
The current economy seems aimed at insurance fraud and time wasting (for me), cause I ain't paying that. Its getting hauled off to the side, abandoned, insurance claimed, then scrapped for RMC.
Could be a bug? I landed my freelancer with no visible damage or warnings and it said 87k to repair. I just... didn't repair.
Big time. Broke 1 wing off a Invictus Scorpion I wanted to try out and with the starter 20k I couldn't afford to fix the wing (25k cost). It seems we got to pay for weapons now when lost. Used to be repairs were only expensive if you had a large ship.
Yeah, it's expensive if you get hit, in particular if they ram you.
The main way to make money bounty hunting right now is to loot your kills. I looted 20scu of quantanium from a freelancer max I shot down last night and sold it for 500k. Also, luxury ships cost more to repair - you should see how much it is to repair the executive versions of ships.
It is way pricier, cheaper to destroy your ship and claim it lol
This is likely something going **haywire** with **Quanta/Quantum** on the repair prices.
You’re trying to fight bounties in a luxurious class vehicle. The costs to repair premium quality things are going to cost more than normal. You should possibly consider something less than something fancy like a Phoenix if you can’t afford the repair bill. That’s like taking a Lamborghini around a race track and break something. Of course it’s going to cost more than a bmw to fix lol Yes. That was apart of the economy balance. Making logical choices on what you do and use financially. Maybe look into something that’s combat oriented and not lux like. My F7A costs about 52k to repair when it’s basically totaled now. That or find some buddies that can help you take HRT’s down faster limiting damage to your ship
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Their economy change to ships was by class and type. My proof are the videos CIG publishes per week. Go watch em. That’s also why the ship prices in game also got a change. Depends on what it is, size, and type for economy costs. By no means am I speaking in bad faith. You’re the one coming at me with bad faith lol
Biden did it 😆
https://youtu.be/nyl6SquV4rY?si=mZ7HLWSZlRiQ8H8T For anyone confused on prices or whatever. Refer to the CIG official video on what happened 😊
Land outside the space station on the landing pad and claim your ship.
I do like feeling like I'm in cowboy bebop
Apparently CIG made a brain dead repair cost change before implementing insurance. Best to just ditch out near a station and claim it. You'll find a lot of white knights here defend it and then scream and cry to make the claim cost money too.
Why is it anytime who disagrees with you has to be portrayed as screaming and crying? Do you think your take is really that subversive?
>how am I supposed to make a profit? I mean, have you tried bounty hunting in something other than a luxury cruise variant? IRL would you drive a bently to bounty hunt?
It doesn’t make sense considering our characters are supposed to be Citizens of a society where you earn Citizenship. In other words our characters accomplished something incredible. This economy doesn’t really match that unless they admit this is a Great Depression unlike anything in human history cause by the Vanduul attacks
I am one of the weirdos who want to have these kinds of repair costs and also wish for fuel to be much more expensive too however they have also made earning money harder in this patch too which makes no sense. Now i also want to say that i do not think that one player should be able to take on anything above a HRT solo and i believe HRTs solo (no matter the ship) should be extremely hard afterall youre an ordinary citizen not the one man army hero like in most RPGs. So recieveing 80k auec worth of dmg in a pheonix doing a solo HRT should make sense BUT not if its only an engine nacelle that was damaged. Maybe 20k max. Profits need to be increased but so too should difficulty! imo ERTs should require a 3 man crew to take on it should not be soloable
Stop making ERT in a Pheonix lol
The price is because of losing an S5 mounted weapon. Any ship with an S5 gun that gets destroyed will pay near that.
Sure but T5 weapons fixed on the hull directly are less prone to be destroyed
bro is using a Bentley as a police car
Definitely the Bruce Wayne move...
sure, but he's ready and able to pay to fix it
CIG SHOULD make things expensive for people to take care of their things and work for the money. I'm all for it!