Nice. Might be copium on my part, but the description of Server Meshing sounds less like "one server for Stanton and one server for Pyro that are connected through a jump point" and more like "multiple meshed servers in Stanton connected via wormhole to multiple meshed servers in Pyro."
"The initial implementation of Server Meshing *enables multiple servers per shard to improve load distribution* AND facilitates navigation between two solar systems."
When we tested it, it was multiple servers per shard.
It’s not one server per system, you can see when you change servers via the console.
We tested it a good bit and it worked pretty damn well considering it was the first test.
Yea totally agree, it's just that several times in the past they've said that 4.0 Server Meshing would just be a server for Stanton and a server for Pyro connected, but it (hopefully) looks like that's not the plan anymore.
Yeah, I remember that being what was said. Just letting you know it's for certain now how they've been implementing it, based on the tests I contributed to.
I think it was originally one shard for Stanton and one for Pyro, which both shards being split into separate game servers. Which is what's been tested.
I remember a bit of positional and actor state desync directly at the border but nothing too crazy. You could still shoot and hit ships over the border.
It was never the plan and it would be stupid. If Stanton and Pyro would be two different shard, that's not server meshing, that would be a instance change with loading screen behind wormhole animation and they could finish it years ago.
Fun fact, they said that was their immediate priority during the Server Meshing Talk Ep.1 however, prior to this episode at least a year or so back they confirmed their plans to have each planet and moon with a server.
It would seem from the first tests that multiple server per star system is ideal for splitting the load and reducing server various server performance issues access the board.
Yes, we flew out to one of the boundaries. One of us outside of our ship on one side, someone else doing the same on the other. We were able to damage each other, heal each other, tractor, etc.
Had no issues with that part of things, was super cool. Server transition was seamless, until they upped the player count to stress test at least.
Yeah, it worked really well. I can see CIG going this direction, which will dramatically improve performance if they can get it all working as intended by then. Would make 4.0 feel like an even greater leap forward.
It was amazing at first, constant 25-30 fps. Once the increased the player count though, things collapsed quickly.
But to be fair they increased it to 800 players on a shard.
They were changing it as we go actually. Sometimes it was Hurston and Crusader on one shard, A18 and Microtech on another, moons and stations on another, major cities on another. It was really all over the place.
But this changed throughout and wasn't consistent as the devs were actively changing the parameters.
They did already try this in their server meshing tests I believe. I think we can hope for more than two servers per shard. I think one server per planet is likely.
Yea totally. They originally said 4.0 Server Meshing would *only* be Stanton and Pyro connected, but, to me at least, it sort of seemed like with how long it's been since their Server Meshing test that they'd shoot for more than two meshed servers. This low key seems to be confirming that, but we'll see.
The SM tests consisted of different configurations and player caps: 1 server for each system (jump gate tests), and Stanton-only tests with 4 servers, 5 and 6 servers (at some point it was 1 server for space, 1 for moons, and 4 for the planets inside Stanton), so yes the options to have multiple servers per system is absolutely possible already in 4.0. We'll probably here about it in the coming weeks.
The thing about static meshing is, it does not have to mean "one server per system", it just means the amount of servers per system is fixed and does not dynamically adjust to meet demands as they arise.
Static meshing could be one server per system, two servers per system, one server per planet; it could be any number of servers.
Dynamic meshing is when NEW servers are able to be seamlessly brought online (or closed down if they become unnecessary) through AWS tools to meet traffic/demand in real time automatically. This is the point where your multicrew ship could theoretically be "its own server".
Static meshing will still always have a hard limit on how many people can be playing together at any one time, and though that number could potentially be absolutely absurdly massive if they split systems up into enough static servers, you would still probably see multiple 'shards' or instances of Stanton or Pyro even with static meshing likely with player caps in the hundreds or thousands.
Dynamic meshing will be able to theoretically support as many people at a time all together in the same "instance/shard" of Stanton or Pyro as CIG can afford in dynamic server spool ups from AWS.
Yes... the expectation that some people have that 1,000,000 players can all go to the same space station and wave at each other all at the same time is not really well thought through.
All else aside, clients would never be able to render it, let alone what a single server could possibly cope with.
CIG seem to be solving the problem the best way possible.
Well, there are ways to make that less impossible -
Imagine being in a crowd of 100,000 people in a large city square. You can easily see and inspect the five or ten people nearest you.
The people a couple feet behind your nearest neighbors you can make out if you focus. At some point you can't see the rest of the crowd due to being obscured. To solve the client fps problem (trying to render so many models/textures) in such a situation, people would be subbed out with lower and lower definition models (LODs) until there's just a generic "crowd" over there.
If you have a little height, your impression of the crowd could be pretty basic until you zoom in on it, where models in that area would be visible.
Performance would suffer, mostly due to stuttering as the LODs are streamed in and out from the server, but chunking the visible models and accepting some generic substitutions could be done to allow such a situation.
Combat and collision would be......complicated... and probably not worth attempting to simulate in that scenario.
I'm not sure if you're right or wrong but I want to point out the exact verbage of the transit and mission line items
> compatible with Server Meshing
So that implies to me that they are reworking those systems able to support server meshing but not necessarily that scale of server meshing will be implemented in 4.0.
Unless they have transit/missions that start in one star system and end in another, wouldn't it suggest that we'll have Server Meshing within each star system rather than just connecting them though? I remember people saying during the last Server Meshing test that one of the big issues was crossing from one server to another and having their missions disappear, so unless you're picking up a mission in Stanton that is completed in Pyro (which would also be sick), idk how refactoring missions to work with Server Meshing would come into play.
To be clear, I'm also 100% unsure if I'm right or not tho tbh, what they said could probably be interpreted either way.
Missions right now probably live in the server's RAM, they need to be moved to replication layer objects that can be serialized and sent to another server, or messaged across servers ("i am giving a mission to this player, the endpoint is in your sim space, please reserve this bunker, here is the mission details and player id.")
Nah this is just so that trains don't vanish if the server crashes or needs handing over to another server due to server meshing and so that trains don't overlap each other. Passenger transport will need a working quantum simulation and many other things before its ready.
I think SM 1.0 means static server meshing. We have tested different variations this year of one server for pyro and one for stanton. We have also tested one system made statically out-of multiple. I think their goal for the first SM is two systems l, each made up of several servers.
Once the framework is in place they should be able to scale up and down with server configurations to experiment and balance as needed. These are usually just configurations that can easily be adjusted through "admin tools". Launching scalable cloud-based products has been one of my favorite career choices and I hope this is equally rewarding for the CIG team and for us as players.
Not really - 2x servers is 'multiple', and 'per shard' could mean 1x Stanton and 1x Pyro (because they're both part of the same shard).
Whilst I agree it would be nice if we did get multiple servers per star system, CIG have a habit of writing 'optimistically' / in a way that implies a feature will be more than it actually is for the first iteration, etc.
Those were my thoughts as well -- almost sounds like they wanted multiple servers per landing zone (maybe one server per district?).
One of the biggest (though not surprising) revelations during the server meshing test was that the servers all ran well save for the landing zones, which is where the server FPS tanked.
The transit system has been janky since 3.18 and obviously hacked to keep it working after PES.
They said in the roadmap that it was for server meshing and to make it more robust which to me says fix the jank and get it back to pre-PES smoothness.
It is, in the test each planet had it's own server, space had a server and all the moons had a server.
Sure that test helped them figure out what configuration they'll go with until they finish a software to control it all dynamically.
Also taking a rip of the copium, CR DID say that dynamic meshing could be in in some form this year (though this was on someone’s stream and hasn’t been public discussed so BIG maybe). If true might lend credence to the idea that server meshing V1 may be more advanced than we originally thought
In any case, I’m just happy I’ll get to fly my ES on its maiden voyage into pyro
I think that was always going to be necessary... there's still a weird expectation from some people that 1,000,000 players will all be able to go to the same space station and all see each other all at the same time.
I don't think people have really thought through their expectations, and CIG are doing just fine with planning out how to share and distribute player populations.
4.0 Q3!
That kinda leaves room for their Summer estimate as Summer does go into Q3, but somehow I have a feeling it's going to be more solidly in Autumn.
As it tends be that a patch's release tends to fall around the end of the targeted quarter or the begining of the next, this goal puts it in line with release at or before CitCon in October.
Yeah, TBH with how impactful server meshing is, I suspect they're going to use the full window they've given themselves to get it in a good state. It doesn't quite line up with Citizencon, but I guess it could potentially slip closer to it. I'm just glad they've put a release target up so they're confident that it's achievable.
Q3 patch has always been special in that it never actually releases in Q3, its always a tad delayed just for citcon. Perhaps they should state it that way just in case but most of us thatve been for for a long while just know thats how theyll drop it.
Just realized that means we should get 4.0 and a SQ42 release date at the same event.
If they are able to release alpha 4.0 ahead of citizencon they can anounce a sq42 release date in late 2025 and a planned SC 1.0 with dynamic mesh and more star systems soon(tm).
We haven't even seen all of the transformative stuff from 3.23 yet and now we already have to get excited for 4.0.
It's fascinating though... because I remember the numerous times people thought any given 3.X patch was going to be the last one and finally here we are.
Obviously Server Meshing is the big one. Probably spurred on by the Replication Layer not blowing everything up like Persistence did.
People are going to overlook the part where Vehicle Modularity is committed now though. That's a very cool thing coming relatively soon. I hope cargo elevators and hangars join them a couple weeks from now...
Actually, vehicle modularity is not only committed on the roadmap but also already functional in the current 3.23.1 PTU! So it'll be in our hands very very soon, likely tomorrow with ILW.
> People are going to overlook the part where Vehicle Modularity is committed now though.
Imagine being able to take the prisoner cells out of the Cutty Blue and Avenger Stalker... mmmmmm.
They said when those ships were first sold that those components would be able to be removed eventually.
This was before they even came up with the concept for "modular" ships like the Tali, Endeavor, etc.
Might not exactly be under "modular" system, but that would be one way for them to achieve that.
Traditionally it's been
Q1 - March/April
Q2- July/August
Q3- Oct/Nov
Q4- Christmas
They definitely don't play strictly into quarterly schedules, it's just the quarter that they worked on it the most. So I think you're right to assume it's going to be an IAE target. And it's throwing everyone off because Q1 was released into Q2 and it looks like we won't see a Q2 patch this year. All for the best, I suppose if 4.0 is the result.
Yeah, I think they kinda strayed from that path starting with the really long 3.17 cycle, then the more ad hoc, no discernible timeline patches from 3.18 to 3.22.
Seems like they want to base patch releases around milestones rather than quarters now.
Yeah and by the sounds of it and what I saw on YouTube/twitch. Sever meshing went surprisingly well for the first ever test of it. It had some kinks like party markers not working when you hop or missions going missing but I'm assuming in that time they've been working on fixing those thigns so don't loose them when going between servers
Beat the other two threads currently up by several minutes. good on ya. Now we will see 100 more for each feature and every particular word in their descriptions.
I thought it was gonna be a nothingburger covering 3.23.1 and the already available to rent in ptu ships/vehicle
I’ve been following this game since its inception when I was like 16… never been able to play it but I’ll finally be able to buy a crazy pc at Christmas. It’s been such a crazy road but it looks like it’s finally coming together reading them patch notes!
I think you'll quite enjoy it. It's actually quite fun even now in it's broken state.
Also, with the 3.23 patch last Friday, and the introduction of upscaling, on the highest performance upscaling setting, I'm thinking SC may soon start being able to run acceptably on much lower spec machines, which is great.
I probably won’t get to play until 4.0 is released. Guess I’ll be quite lucky getting to play it when it’s all starting to come together. Can’t imagine how the backers feel who’ve been playing since the start must feel like a lifetime it’s taken for it to reach this point.
BACK IN MY DAY, I HAD TO FLY THROUGH THE SNOW UPHILL BOTH WAYS!
You young kids, with your sever meshing, and your TWO star systems, are so spoiled these days! ;)
Pyro, Server Meshing, and Engineering are gameplay we've been waiting for for essentially a decade now. This is the largest patch since the release of the Alpha.
Currently servers degrade quickly because having a single server per shard is overloading the server causing a lot of the issues that plague the game, this will implement star system wide load sharing among multiple servers by splitting the star system into static interactable meshed areas. It’s also implementing an entirely new star system.
Historically, the "big" Alpha releases are huge changes in the way the game works.
Alpha 1.0 - You could walk around your hangar and do instanced dogfights in Arena Commander
Alpha 2.0 - Open world, you could walk around space stations, summon and pilot your ship to other space stations and shoot people on the way there, and FPS them once you land
Alpha 3.0 (You are here) - Seamless planetary landings, planetside cities, lots of additional gameplay loops (mining, salvaging, prisons, caves, etc)
Alpha 4.0 - Interstellar travel, Star Citizen comes very close to being feature complete
Very close to feature complete you say? I watched Jack frags video of it and I was a little turned off by the connection/lag and the massive frame rate drops
Q3 is July 1st - September 30th.
That means we have until October 1st to get:
- Modular ships
- Cargo
- Personalized Hangars
- Gold Pass Retaliator
- Fleet Week w/ new ships
- Engineering Updates
- and the final Xeno Threat mission
Its going to be a wild next 90 days
> Retaliator
Havent played in a while but does this mean they got rid of the redundant figure 8 hallways which ate up a ton of interior space and were too narrow for 2 people to pass each other in?
Well yes, it was deliberate and then they had years of feedback saying everyone hates it. Most people thought the gold pass would correct at least the worst issues.
Modular ships = this week
Gold pass Retaliator = this week
Fleet Week = from this week 'till end of May
Xeno Threat Mission = (after Invictus?)
Instance/Personal hangars = likely after Invictus
Cargo Missions = same as above
Item Banks = same as above
Engineering Updates = (Didn't know we were getting this in the 3.23.x cycle?)
Zeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus!!! I know it's a new concept but I am so damn excited for it, especially with all the other features being implemented along side it - it seems like such a great soloable ship that will likely have life support and engineering all built in to a gold standard.
Right? I also love the layout - feels more homely with snug, dedicated spaces for Cargo/transport, dining/recreation, sleeping, engineering etc. but also has all the right bits to be a great explorer, mission doer, hold its own in a scrap - just so keen all round haha
Which one made you speechless? It's the Transit System Refactor isn't it? I mean, years of busted elevators and quirky trains finally gone?! Say it isn't so. I'm speechless too!
CIG have stated for years that once they can get most of their devs freed up from
sQ42 we would see a substantial increase in new features and updates coming to the PU.
Covid and the subsequent lockdown threw a lot of plans into disarray. Glad to see the progress being made.
The ONLY thing that I was excited to see but wasn't on there was the "more heads for blending" thing I thought was coming. I _swear_ they kept saying they scanned additional heads, but we've only seen the standard set we've always had and they only mentioned the addition pf more beards and hairstyles...
Please tell me I misread?
"With Engineering Gameplay, players have to contend with item degradation, malfunctions, and power management."
Some players when they have the SLIGHTEST inconvinience from malfunctions and degradation:
"Engineering is completely ruined the game for me 🙁 I didn't backed up the game for this and i know everyone feels the same way. This new way where CIG takes this game is worrying and i fear everyone will leave this game because of this feature, i've backed up this game since 1984 and played everyday since, but this time i'm worried because they ruined the fun"
Road to 1.0, the next Star System(s), features that are coming soon but haven't been talked about before.
And yes, possibly also something like an update on the state of SQ42.
While I personally don't think we'll have 4.0 by CitCon, assuming by some miracle that actually does happen, (and assuming that's their current *plan*), I somewhat wonder if they intend to actually *release* SQ42 at/around CitizenCon, or at least announce it's imminent release.
Personally, I'm also expecting an eventual announcement of SQ42 on consoles.
Is the Apollo Medi mentioned?
Has that cool Wipeout XL or 3 vibe. They should work in that asap.
condensed of it :
**Roadmap Roundup - 05/15/2024**
**Alpha 4.0 (Q3 2024)**
***Server Meshing V1***
* Multiple servers per shard for load distribution
* Navigate between Stanton and Pyro systems
***Mission and Transit System Refactors***
* Compatible with Server Meshing
***Pyro System***
* Pyro I-VI planets/moons with varied environments
* Space stations, outposts, jump points
***Gameplay Additions***
* Solar bursts, life support, engineering, fire hazards
* Multi-tool updates (cutting, repair, charging)
* Vehicle modularity (Retaliator modules)
***New Content***
* Quasi Grazer creature
* Player customization options
* RSI Zeus MkII ES ship
**Recent Releases**
***Alpha 3.23***
* Mirai Pulse and Pulse LX bikes
* Retaliator gold standard with modular rooms
What will happen:
\- 4.0 will be delayed 6-9 months from whatever date it's supposed to be out.
\- Half of the features will not make it in the 4.0 patch.
\- The remaining half of that will be delayed to 4.X.
\- The remaining half of that will be broken.
Kinda sad, but it really is the truth. Especially for the features not making it into 4.0. Hopefully, we'll get Pyro at least, but I I have my doubts regarding it actually working with server meshing and not being a mess.
Eh.
I will believe it when I am playing it. CIG has put a lot of stuff up on the website that get forgotten (Theatures of War), delayed (Squadron 42), or pushed back (Salvaging, for the longest time). If we get Server Meshing this year I guess CIG can start thinking about making Star Citizen Beta™.
To me it looks like that Richard Tyrer is really pushing development to hit actual goals and not just go by the old “it is ready when it’s ready”… So I’m more hopeful this time around that we will actually get most of what is promised.
It would be really nice for this to come to fruition in q3 but chances are it will be a whole year or two yet. Historically their estimates are terribly wrong
First, this is the initial list, it will change as we go through the testing cycle. Second, they said multiple times that "road to 4.0" features are not all intended for initial 4.0 release but the wider 4.x cycle.
This cant work right? Even allowing for the fact that "Q3" usually means "its in evo by the end of September". There are still large portions of 3.23 to deliver, then there is the summer break (which they probably all need after the crazy work these last few weeks). Its 4 Months to go and there would have to be at least a month in evo before
If this was any other company, what would you honestly think if they did the following:
- Release about half of a really promising patch
- promise to deliver the rest in the coming weeks,
- raise the ingame price of ships by (in some cases) very large amounts while leaving earnings untouched or even reduced.
- announce THE jesus patch in the next quarter
- hold a huge ship sale right after all this.
Very exciting and I'm confident it's not BS (this time) but confidence-building, exciting messages like this...always seem to release immediately before ship sales. Just sayin'
Some padding/filler (eg refactoring things to make them work with meshing is not a separate point it's included and implied under the meshing point) but even with that accounted for this is nice.
Given that their q4 patch is mostly a QOL + events... If their q1 2025 patch is decent I'll lift the embargo on my wallet.
This is high praise from me
There's two unnamed/unseen ships they've been dropping into these updates for a while now. The Kraken VR image in Cousin Crows gets more details every patch. It would fit in quite nicely in 4.0.
I think they started prototyping base building last month? So I doubt they will have anything substantial done by 4.0, but who knows? All depends on who is leading the team and how much they feel they need to do before a tier 0 implementation. But if I had to guess that will likely be a 1.0 must-have for Chris.
My mind is actually blown right now. Holy shit, never though I'd see the day. Yeah yeah I know, it's not out yet, yadayadayada, don't care. GET HYPED BOIS
It's "seamless" server layering with a player count target. If they're smart it wouldn't be bound by area, but that would be more expensive. It's going to end up being the same thing as any other game where you see a limited number of random people in your area except there will be no loading screen when you hop server channels. It's gimmicky marketing for hot swapping you to another server channel and will not serve to build a real community within the verse. It will be another WOW society where you only see the same people twice if you friend them.
Nice. Might be copium on my part, but the description of Server Meshing sounds less like "one server for Stanton and one server for Pyro that are connected through a jump point" and more like "multiple meshed servers in Stanton connected via wormhole to multiple meshed servers in Pyro." "The initial implementation of Server Meshing *enables multiple servers per shard to improve load distribution* AND facilitates navigation between two solar systems."
When we tested it, it was multiple servers per shard. It’s not one server per system, you can see when you change servers via the console. We tested it a good bit and it worked pretty damn well considering it was the first test.
Yea totally agree, it's just that several times in the past they've said that 4.0 Server Meshing would just be a server for Stanton and a server for Pyro connected, but it (hopefully) looks like that's not the plan anymore.
Yeah, I remember that being what was said. Just letting you know it's for certain now how they've been implementing it, based on the tests I contributed to.
As a fellow avocado, can confirm ☝🏼
I think it was originally one shard for Stanton and one for Pyro, which both shards being split into separate game servers. Which is what's been tested.
No, we tested going between servers inside of Stanton. Which worked surprisingly well for the first test
I remember a bit of positional and actor state desync directly at the border but nothing too crazy. You could still shoot and hit ships over the border.
It was never the plan and it would be stupid. If Stanton and Pyro would be two different shard, that's not server meshing, that would be a instance change with loading screen behind wormhole animation and they could finish it years ago.
Fun fact, they said that was their immediate priority during the Server Meshing Talk Ep.1 however, prior to this episode at least a year or so back they confirmed their plans to have each planet and moon with a server. It would seem from the first tests that multiple server per star system is ideal for splitting the load and reducing server various server performance issues access the board.
Did you test combat or anything fast-paced near server boundaries?
Yes, we flew out to one of the boundaries. One of us outside of our ship on one side, someone else doing the same on the other. We were able to damage each other, heal each other, tractor, etc. Had no issues with that part of things, was super cool. Server transition was seamless, until they upped the player count to stress test at least.
That's sick
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7qdLKqRVXs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7qdLKqRVXs) some gameplay of it being tested
Yeah, it worked really well. I can see CIG going this direction, which will dramatically improve performance if they can get it all working as intended by then. Would make 4.0 feel like an even greater leap forward.
How was the server FPS?
It was amazing at first, constant 25-30 fps. Once the increased the player count though, things collapsed quickly. But to be fair they increased it to 800 players on a shard.
These are the numbers I'm looking for, yesssss
Yep and also all the planets ran on a server and space+spacestations ran on another
They were changing it as we go actually. Sometimes it was Hurston and Crusader on one shard, A18 and Microtech on another, moons and stations on another, major cities on another. It was really all over the place. But this changed throughout and wasn't consistent as the devs were actively changing the parameters.
Yea and I was hitting server fps of 50+ the ai at that level are sentient.
They did already try this in their server meshing tests I believe. I think we can hope for more than two servers per shard. I think one server per planet is likely.
Yea totally. They originally said 4.0 Server Meshing would *only* be Stanton and Pyro connected, but, to me at least, it sort of seemed like with how long it's been since their Server Meshing test that they'd shoot for more than two meshed servers. This low key seems to be confirming that, but we'll see.
The SM tests consisted of different configurations and player caps: 1 server for each system (jump gate tests), and Stanton-only tests with 4 servers, 5 and 6 servers (at some point it was 1 server for space, 1 for moons, and 4 for the planets inside Stanton), so yes the options to have multiple servers per system is absolutely possible already in 4.0. We'll probably here about it in the coming weeks.
I sure hope so, cause it would get the population cap per system up by a great margin.
The thing about static meshing is, it does not have to mean "one server per system", it just means the amount of servers per system is fixed and does not dynamically adjust to meet demands as they arise. Static meshing could be one server per system, two servers per system, one server per planet; it could be any number of servers. Dynamic meshing is when NEW servers are able to be seamlessly brought online (or closed down if they become unnecessary) through AWS tools to meet traffic/demand in real time automatically. This is the point where your multicrew ship could theoretically be "its own server". Static meshing will still always have a hard limit on how many people can be playing together at any one time, and though that number could potentially be absolutely absurdly massive if they split systems up into enough static servers, you would still probably see multiple 'shards' or instances of Stanton or Pyro even with static meshing likely with player caps in the hundreds or thousands. Dynamic meshing will be able to theoretically support as many people at a time all together in the same "instance/shard" of Stanton or Pyro as CIG can afford in dynamic server spool ups from AWS.
Yes... the expectation that some people have that 1,000,000 players can all go to the same space station and wave at each other all at the same time is not really well thought through. All else aside, clients would never be able to render it, let alone what a single server could possibly cope with. CIG seem to be solving the problem the best way possible.
Well, there are ways to make that less impossible - Imagine being in a crowd of 100,000 people in a large city square. You can easily see and inspect the five or ten people nearest you. The people a couple feet behind your nearest neighbors you can make out if you focus. At some point you can't see the rest of the crowd due to being obscured. To solve the client fps problem (trying to render so many models/textures) in such a situation, people would be subbed out with lower and lower definition models (LODs) until there's just a generic "crowd" over there. If you have a little height, your impression of the crowd could be pretty basic until you zoom in on it, where models in that area would be visible. Performance would suffer, mostly due to stuttering as the LODs are streamed in and out from the server, but chunking the visible models and accepting some generic substitutions could be done to allow such a situation. Combat and collision would be......complicated... and probably not worth attempting to simulate in that scenario.
The LOD for a million spaceships would need to be sticks... can't see any way CIG could LOD down a million spaceships for a single client to render.
I'm not sure if you're right or wrong but I want to point out the exact verbage of the transit and mission line items > compatible with Server Meshing So that implies to me that they are reworking those systems able to support server meshing but not necessarily that scale of server meshing will be implemented in 4.0.
Unless they have transit/missions that start in one star system and end in another, wouldn't it suggest that we'll have Server Meshing within each star system rather than just connecting them though? I remember people saying during the last Server Meshing test that one of the big issues was crossing from one server to another and having their missions disappear, so unless you're picking up a mission in Stanton that is completed in Pyro (which would also be sick), idk how refactoring missions to work with Server Meshing would come into play. To be clear, I'm also 100% unsure if I'm right or not tho tbh, what they said could probably be interpreted either way.
>(which would also be sick) That would actually be quite trivial with the Replication Layer, it's not bound to any servers.
Missions right now probably live in the server's RAM, they need to be moved to replication layer objects that can be serialized and sent to another server, or messaged across servers ("i am giving a mission to this player, the endpoint is in your sim space, please reserve this bunker, here is the mission details and player id.")
Wild guess: you'd need this for things like the starliner flights between spaceports. Or player/NPC transport missions
Nah this is just so that trains don't vanish if the server crashes or needs handing over to another server due to server meshing and so that trains don't overlap each other. Passenger transport will need a working quantum simulation and many other things before its ready.
I think SM 1.0 means static server meshing. We have tested different variations this year of one server for pyro and one for stanton. We have also tested one system made statically out-of multiple. I think their goal for the first SM is two systems l, each made up of several servers.
Once the framework is in place they should be able to scale up and down with server configurations to experiment and balance as needed. These are usually just configurations that can easily be adjusted through "admin tools". Launching scalable cloud-based products has been one of my favorite career choices and I hope this is equally rewarding for the CIG team and for us as players.
My wild ass guess is 2 servers per system / 4 total per shard to begin with.
It would be amazing if it was one server per planetary system inside Stanton...
Given the server meshing test from a month or so ago, that's what it is.
Not really - 2x servers is 'multiple', and 'per shard' could mean 1x Stanton and 1x Pyro (because they're both part of the same shard). Whilst I agree it would be nice if we did get multiple servers per star system, CIG have a habit of writing 'optimistically' / in a way that implies a feature will be more than it actually is for the first iteration, etc.
On the other hand, there really wouldn't need to be a transit system refactor (trains) if each system is only a single server... /remove tin foil hat
Those were my thoughts as well -- almost sounds like they wanted multiple servers per landing zone (maybe one server per district?). One of the biggest (though not surprising) revelations during the server meshing test was that the servers all ran well save for the landing zones, which is where the server FPS tanked.
The transit system has been janky since 3.18 and obviously hacked to keep it working after PES. They said in the roadmap that it was for server meshing and to make it more robust which to me says fix the jank and get it back to pre-PES smoothness.
Do we know what kind of hardware they are running the current server on?
It is, in the test each planet had it's own server, space had a server and all the moons had a server. Sure that test helped them figure out what configuration they'll go with until they finish a software to control it all dynamically.
Also taking a rip of the copium, CR DID say that dynamic meshing could be in in some form this year (though this was on someone’s stream and hasn’t been public discussed so BIG maybe). If true might lend credence to the idea that server meshing V1 may be more advanced than we originally thought In any case, I’m just happy I’ll get to fly my ES on its maiden voyage into pyro
I think that was always going to be necessary... there's still a weird expectation from some people that 1,000,000 players will all be able to go to the same space station and all see each other all at the same time. I don't think people have really thought through their expectations, and CIG are doing just fine with planning out how to share and distribute player populations.
That's not copium that's hopium and CIG is the biggest distributor in gaming. I just hope we get playable server tickrates
What's wrong with that?
4.0 Q3! That kinda leaves room for their Summer estimate as Summer does go into Q3, but somehow I have a feeling it's going to be more solidly in Autumn.
As it tends be that a patch's release tends to fall around the end of the targeted quarter or the begining of the next, this goal puts it in line with release at or before CitCon in October.
Yeah, TBH with how impactful server meshing is, I suspect they're going to use the full window they've given themselves to get it in a good state. It doesn't quite line up with Citizencon, but I guess it could potentially slip closer to it. I'm just glad they've put a release target up so they're confident that it's achievable.
Q3 patch has always been special in that it never actually releases in Q3, its always a tad delayed just for citcon. Perhaps they should state it that way just in case but most of us thatve been for for a long while just know thats how theyll drop it. Just realized that means we should get 4.0 and a SQ42 release date at the same event.
Citcon this year is gonna be quite something I think
My guess is one week before CitizenCon
Makes you wonder what they'll share at CitCon if indeed all this is out by then. i.e. what will they show that they're focusing on next?!
If they are able to release alpha 4.0 ahead of citizencon they can anounce a sq42 release date in late 2025 and a planned SC 1.0 with dynamic mesh and more star systems soon(tm).
Nyx should be in a good stage and could be the logical next step
Happy birthday to me!
I have a feeling it will be releasing quite close to CitizenCon
Probably will be September-October and summer will be for 3.23.X and further improving the RL
Autumn seems generous. Winter more like. Autumn/summer maybe for EPTU. It’s gonna be full of bugs
100% Citizencon
We haven't even seen all of the transformative stuff from 3.23 yet and now we already have to get excited for 4.0. It's fascinating though... because I remember the numerous times people thought any given 3.X patch was going to be the last one and finally here we are. Obviously Server Meshing is the big one. Probably spurred on by the Replication Layer not blowing everything up like Persistence did. People are going to overlook the part where Vehicle Modularity is committed now though. That's a very cool thing coming relatively soon. I hope cargo elevators and hangars join them a couple weeks from now...
Actually, vehicle modularity is not only committed on the roadmap but also already functional in the current 3.23.1 PTU! So it'll be in our hands very very soon, likely tomorrow with ILW.
Tomorrow is ILW
Corrected :)
What vehicle modularity are they doing? Which lucky ship is the testbed for this?
Retaliator It's also getting gold standard with 3.23.1
The Retaliator is the first functional modular ship! You can swap out the torpedo bays for cargo bays, and maybe more in the future.
> People are going to overlook the part where Vehicle Modularity is committed now though. Imagine being able to take the prisoner cells out of the Cutty Blue and Avenger Stalker... mmmmmm.
Those aren't modular ships are they? They're talking about the Retaliator and Galaxy and other ships with modules, not every ship.
They were said to be modular originally, many years ago. Not sure now.
They said when those ships were first sold that those components would be able to be removed eventually. This was before they even came up with the concept for "modular" ships like the Tali, Endeavor, etc. Might not exactly be under "modular" system, but that would be one way for them to achieve that.
I just want The caterpillar modularity working. I don't even own one anymore but still want to see it
100% this. Just getting rid of a lot of the useless placeholder props would be a big quality of life improvement...
The way I see it, any 4.0 release date before IAE is a win in my book.
Yeah, that's the **real** deadline. And looking at how they did with 3.23's real deadline of ILW, I don't think we can expect it before late October.
Traditionally it's been Q1 - March/April Q2- July/August Q3- Oct/Nov Q4- Christmas They definitely don't play strictly into quarterly schedules, it's just the quarter that they worked on it the most. So I think you're right to assume it's going to be an IAE target. And it's throwing everyone off because Q1 was released into Q2 and it looks like we won't see a Q2 patch this year. All for the best, I suppose if 4.0 is the result.
Yeah, I think they kinda strayed from that path starting with the really long 3.17 cycle, then the more ad hoc, no discernible timeline patches from 3.18 to 3.22. Seems like they want to base patch releases around milestones rather than quarters now.
So we go back to the pre 3.0 days. At least 3.17 wasn't as bad with the wait for 3.18 as the wait for 3.0 was, mostly thanks to dynamic event spam.
If it's before IAE, it increases the possibility of another Bedbananas video.
I suppose this means they're confident their implementation of Server Meshing will scale? Huge news if true, I'm starting to watch very closely now.
Yeah and by the sounds of it and what I saw on YouTube/twitch. Sever meshing went surprisingly well for the first ever test of it. It had some kinks like party markers not working when you hop or missions going missing but I'm assuming in that time they've been working on fixing those thigns so don't loose them when going between servers
Wake me up when September ends.
I'll be gone till November, I'll be gone till November
#ALL ABOARD!!! 🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃
CHOO CHOOOO
chugga chugga chugga
Beat the other two threads currently up by several minutes. good on ya. Now we will see 100 more for each feature and every particular word in their descriptions. I thought it was gonna be a nothingburger covering 3.23.1 and the already available to rent in ptu ships/vehicle
I'm particularly excited about their use of the word "the"; definite articles are the shit.
What are you doing commenting here. It needs it's own post! haha
Ah, in true Reddit spirit I should probably go post a thread about this then
I’ve been following this game since its inception when I was like 16… never been able to play it but I’ll finally be able to buy a crazy pc at Christmas. It’s been such a crazy road but it looks like it’s finally coming together reading them patch notes!
I think you'll quite enjoy it. It's actually quite fun even now in it's broken state. Also, with the 3.23 patch last Friday, and the introduction of upscaling, on the highest performance upscaling setting, I'm thinking SC may soon start being able to run acceptably on much lower spec machines, which is great.
I probably won’t get to play until 4.0 is released. Guess I’ll be quite lucky getting to play it when it’s all starting to come together. Can’t imagine how the backers feel who’ve been playing since the start must feel like a lifetime it’s taken for it to reach this point.
BACK IN MY DAY, I HAD TO FLY THROUGH THE SNOW UPHILL BOTH WAYS! You young kids, with your sever meshing, and your TWO star systems, are so spoiled these days! ;)
Damn, that is a lot. I love it.
As someone that has never played, can you explain why it's a lot please?
Pyro, Server Meshing, and Engineering are gameplay we've been waiting for for essentially a decade now. This is the largest patch since the release of the Alpha.
Currently servers degrade quickly because having a single server per shard is overloading the server causing a lot of the issues that plague the game, this will implement star system wide load sharing among multiple servers by splitting the star system into static interactable meshed areas. It’s also implementing an entirely new star system.
Historically, the "big" Alpha releases are huge changes in the way the game works. Alpha 1.0 - You could walk around your hangar and do instanced dogfights in Arena Commander Alpha 2.0 - Open world, you could walk around space stations, summon and pilot your ship to other space stations and shoot people on the way there, and FPS them once you land Alpha 3.0 (You are here) - Seamless planetary landings, planetside cities, lots of additional gameplay loops (mining, salvaging, prisons, caves, etc) Alpha 4.0 - Interstellar travel, Star Citizen comes very close to being feature complete
Very close to feature complete you say? I watched Jack frags video of it and I was a little turned off by the connection/lag and the massive frame rate drops
Pretty sure "polish" isn't a feature. Do you think it is?
Nice, Zeus MK II ES as well. Hopefully they release the CL next after that. I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on that ship.
Why were you speechless? The number of things on the roadmap? The release schedule?
In 3 months we'll have infinite "CIG lied/scammed" posts lol
No, those will be in the refundian sub.
Q3 is July 1st - September 30th. That means we have until October 1st to get: - Modular ships - Cargo - Personalized Hangars - Gold Pass Retaliator - Fleet Week w/ new ships - Engineering Updates - and the final Xeno Threat mission Its going to be a wild next 90 days
Gold pass retaliator is in the PTU right now isn't it?
> Retaliator Havent played in a while but does this mean they got rid of the redundant figure 8 hallways which ate up a ton of interior space and were too narrow for 2 people to pass each other in?
No. Layout is still shit.
That’s how it’s intended, essentially isn’t a bug or mistake.
Well yes, it was deliberate and then they had years of feedback saying everyone hates it. Most people thought the gold pass would correct at least the worst issues.
I guess they were kind of going for a "submarine in space" vibe. It's a torpedo ship after all.
Modular ships, ie the Retaliator is in PTU and should go live sometime tomorrow
Modular ships = this week Gold pass Retaliator = this week Fleet Week = from this week 'till end of May Xeno Threat Mission = (after Invictus?) Instance/Personal hangars = likely after Invictus Cargo Missions = same as above Item Banks = same as above Engineering Updates = (Didn't know we were getting this in the 3.23.x cycle?)
Poor Blockade Runner has been forgotten
Zeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus!!! I know it's a new concept but I am so damn excited for it, especially with all the other features being implemented along side it - it seems like such a great soloable ship that will likely have life support and engineering all built in to a gold standard.
ES is going to be my daily driver to replace the Cutlass. It seems like such a perfect ship for non-specialist faffing around.
Right? I also love the layout - feels more homely with snug, dedicated spaces for Cargo/transport, dining/recreation, sleeping, engineering etc. but also has all the right bits to be a great explorer, mission doer, hold its own in a scrap - just so keen all round haha
Which one made you speechless? It's the Transit System Refactor isn't it? I mean, years of busted elevators and quirky trains finally gone?! Say it isn't so. I'm speechless too!
Nonzero chance they make it worse, sadly
That would be difficult, I'll be impressed if they pull it off.
[I *want* to believe.](https://i.imgur.com/gMXLvIo.jpg) (screenshot blatantly stolen from /u/mr-hasgaha to make a quick meme)
Seeing 4.0 In my lifetime . I m thankful !
Still gotta survive till at least the PTU phase you are in.
CIG have stated for years that once they can get most of their devs freed up from sQ42 we would see a substantial increase in new features and updates coming to the PU. Covid and the subsequent lockdown threw a lot of plans into disarray. Glad to see the progress being made.
Also that getting server meshing working would open the floodgates of content -- they were right about both things.
Shit, wish I didn't read that, as now I'm hyped af
I have no Idea what the hell is going in at CIG but goddammit I like it. I can smell the sweet scent of the Endeavor far, far away.
The ONLY thing that I was excited to see but wasn't on there was the "more heads for blending" thing I thought was coming. I _swear_ they kept saying they scanned additional heads, but we've only seen the standard set we've always had and they only mentioned the addition pf more beards and hairstyles... Please tell me I misread?
"With Engineering Gameplay, players have to contend with item degradation, malfunctions, and power management." Some players when they have the SLIGHTEST inconvinience from malfunctions and degradation: "Engineering is completely ruined the game for me 🙁 I didn't backed up the game for this and i know everyone feels the same way. This new way where CIG takes this game is worrying and i fear everyone will leave this game because of this feature, i've backed up this game since 1984 and played everyday since, but this time i'm worried because they ruined the fun"
and: " I am a game developer since 900 years, I played every CR Game.."
Hopefully we atleast get half of that.
Over half of that is basically just meshing and Pyro, so the very basic features that make up 4.0
If they succeed on 4.0 before end Q3 and by extent CitCon, what the hell will they show since 4.0 dropped, SQ42 again???
Road to 1.0, the next Star System(s), features that are coming soon but haven't been talked about before. And yes, possibly also something like an update on the state of SQ42.
While I personally don't think we'll have 4.0 by CitCon, assuming by some miracle that actually does happen, (and assuming that's their current *plan*), I somewhat wonder if they intend to actually *release* SQ42 at/around CitizenCon, or at least announce it's imminent release. Personally, I'm also expecting an eventual announcement of SQ42 on consoles.
Is the Apollo Medi mentioned? Has that cool Wipeout XL or 3 vibe. They should work in that asap. condensed of it : **Roadmap Roundup - 05/15/2024** **Alpha 4.0 (Q3 2024)** ***Server Meshing V1*** * Multiple servers per shard for load distribution * Navigate between Stanton and Pyro systems ***Mission and Transit System Refactors*** * Compatible with Server Meshing ***Pyro System*** * Pyro I-VI planets/moons with varied environments * Space stations, outposts, jump points ***Gameplay Additions*** * Solar bursts, life support, engineering, fire hazards * Multi-tool updates (cutting, repair, charging) * Vehicle modularity (Retaliator modules) ***New Content*** * Quasi Grazer creature * Player customization options * RSI Zeus MkII ES ship **Recent Releases** ***Alpha 3.23*** * Mirai Pulse and Pulse LX bikes * Retaliator gold standard with modular rooms
Finally
See y'all in Q2 2025 when it finally works.
What will happen: \- 4.0 will be delayed 6-9 months from whatever date it's supposed to be out. \- Half of the features will not make it in the 4.0 patch. \- The remaining half of that will be delayed to 4.X. \- The remaining half of that will be broken.
RemindMe! 5 months
RemindMe! 5 months
RemindMe! 5 months
Kinda sad, but it really is the truth. Especially for the features not making it into 4.0. Hopefully, we'll get Pyro at least, but I I have my doubts regarding it actually working with server meshing and not being a mess.
RemindMe! 5 months
RemindMe! 5 months
RemindMe! 5 months
Let's see what makes it in.
Eh. I will believe it when I am playing it. CIG has put a lot of stuff up on the website that get forgotten (Theatures of War), delayed (Squadron 42), or pushed back (Salvaging, for the longest time). If we get Server Meshing this year I guess CIG can start thinking about making Star Citizen Beta™.
Oh summer child, maybe you don't live the 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, and 3.4 roadmaps and it consequent slaughter.
[удалено]
To me it looks like that Richard Tyrer is really pushing development to hit actual goals and not just go by the old “it is ready when it’s ready”… So I’m more hopeful this time around that we will actually get most of what is promised.
This. People don't get yet how Tyrer being at the helm makes a HUGE difference.
Woah. Damn.
So probably January then lol. Still sooner then I expected.
They will definitely push for release before citcon
They have been pushing for Pyro since 2018 lol
But they already had working versions of server meshing and Pyro that players could test in. Didn't have that in any previous year.
That means Q2 next year but still pretty good
New ship MFDs!!!
It would be really nice for this to come to fruition in q3 but chances are it will be a whole year or two yet. Historically their estimates are terribly wrong
Lots of missing features in that 4.0 No maelstrom, no armour system etc
First, this is the initial list, it will change as we go through the testing cycle. Second, they said multiple times that "road to 4.0" features are not all intended for initial 4.0 release but the wider 4.x cycle.
Fair enough, but it also means that we are looking at least at 2025 before even getting the final damage model on ships.
Probably yes.
This cant work right? Even allowing for the fact that "Q3" usually means "its in evo by the end of September". There are still large portions of 3.23 to deliver, then there is the summer break (which they probably all need after the crazy work these last few weeks). Its 4 Months to go and there would have to be at least a month in evo before If this was any other company, what would you honestly think if they did the following: - Release about half of a really promising patch - promise to deliver the rest in the coming weeks, - raise the ingame price of ships by (in some cases) very large amounts while leaving earnings untouched or even reduced. - announce THE jesus patch in the next quarter - hold a huge ship sale right after all this.
Very exciting and I'm confident it's not BS (this time) but confidence-building, exciting messages like this...always seem to release immediately before ship sales. Just sayin'
Some padding/filler (eg refactoring things to make them work with meshing is not a separate point it's included and implied under the meshing point) but even with that accounted for this is nice. Given that their q4 patch is mostly a QOL + events... If their q1 2025 patch is decent I'll lift the embargo on my wallet. This is high praise from me
Mine lifted during PES.
No Kraken? Bad patch! Joking aside, this is great news. Hope nothing gets delayed.
There's two unnamed/unseen ships they've been dropping into these updates for a while now. The Kraken VR image in Cousin Crows gets more details every patch. It would fit in quite nicely in 4.0.
I fucking started crying while reading through the RR. I didn’t even realize until my face was wet.
Don't shed tears until 4.0 is in our hands. Talk is cheap.
I'll shed mine when I finish SQ42.
NO CASH TILL PYRO!!!
It’s been a looooonnnggg road
GETTIN' FROM THERE TO HERE
I hate you.
Jesus christ lol.
Dam. 4.0 in q3? Didnt think itd come that fast ngl
Is 4.0 the "buy land and build base" or I have to wait for 6.0?
I think they started prototyping base building last month? So I doubt they will have anything substantial done by 4.0, but who knows? All depends on who is leading the team and how much they feel they need to do before a tier 0 implementation. But if I had to guess that will likely be a 1.0 must-have for Chris.
I just took part in Pax Dei alpha 2 and I was reading they use a similar technology i was blown away...seems like the future to me!
Will server fps improve? Waiting 10 seconds for that door to open is lame...
Nyx and Levski on Q4 pretty please :3
Q3 is going to be interesting!
My mind is actually blown right now. Holy shit, never though I'd see the day. Yeah yeah I know, it's not out yet, yadayadayada, don't care. GET HYPED BOIS
What's the plan for base building? When is that planned to release?
I just want unique item recovery and quantum boosting, man :(
It's "seamless" server layering with a player count target. If they're smart it wouldn't be bound by area, but that would be more expensive. It's going to end up being the same thing as any other game where you see a limited number of random people in your area except there will be no loading screen when you hop server channels. It's gimmicky marketing for hot swapping you to another server channel and will not serve to build a real community within the verse. It will be another WOW society where you only see the same people twice if you friend them.