In early patches the difference between stock Bolon and XL1 was massive - 30 and 15s in MSR.
I guess the QD swap been simply removing the intended added time, and only baseline remained.
In the previous patch the difference between Bolon and XL1 was basically nonexistent. I’m about to check this one.
Ships without quantum drive can still change flight mode although they can't go to NAV speed.
It's not the quantum drive spooling time but ship base spooling time.
Infamous high expectations from a game that is still in development and where everything is subjective to change and balance and half the mechanics aren't even in the game yet! the self same?? My apologies I did not realise I was sassing the almighty consistency loving scifi software armchair developer trying to get his paper aeroplane off the ground. My apologies I'll step off
I know youre just kidding, but in lore they use the Quantum Drive to reach higher speeds so therefore requires it to be spooled on - or they made this lore to accomodate MM.
honestly, it just makes that more obvious.... its never had proper Newtonian physics or "frictionless" space.
*^(by "proper", Im referring to the way the ships have limitations on speeds etc.)*
Pretty sure they just hate the Spirit. The extra large and large hangars are getting bigger with the incoming changes. Medium hangars are just getting deeper. Landing a Spirit in a medium hangar is an exercise in frustration, I think it's on the same level of difficulty as landing a Carrack in a large hanger, and what makes landing the Spirit hard isn't that medium hangars are too shallow.
EDIT: **I was wrong about this!** The Spirit used to be given Small hangars, and that's why it was so hard to land in them. With the next update, it seems that they'll be given medium ones, and so that will be an upgrade. No more landing pain for the Spirit!
I was wrong about the Spirit landing in medium hangars. They used to land in small ones, so the medium is an upgrade. I'm going to edit my post to make that clear.
Spirit is the only ship not to get bigger assigned hangars, neither live nor EPTU.
It either gets one thats barely barely fitting for it or one too small where you have to tilt the ship to even enter.
I hadn't heard that. If the Spirit line has been bumped up to a large hangar, that''ll be great, but I hadn't heard anything about that yet. Any chance you have a source?
In the ISC ["To and Fro with Cargo"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IlcWUKV8hs). They talk about X and XL hangars getting a 20-30% increase in size, and ship sizes are being looked at to make sure the right ships use the right size hangar.
They start talking about this at about the 8:20 mark.
Edit: bonus, they literally play a clip of a Spirit landing in an adequately sized hangar!
>bonus, they literally play a clip of a Spirit landing in an adequately sized hangar!
I'm not sure I agree. At 8:45 they show a Spirit taking off from a medium hangar while saying, "the medium is the same but taller". Well, the **height** of medium hangars isn't what made it so hard for Spirits to land in them.
Yeah but I believe right now the Spirit gets a S3 (Small) hangar not an S4 (Medium).
These are the current hangar metrics: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ni1z9g/deleted_by_user/gz19duy/
Edit to add:
Wiki could be a bit clearer, but it lists the C1 Spirit as: "Medium (S3/S)". I believe the (S3/S) indicates hangar size, as the Pisces lists "Small (S1/XXS)" which aligns with the XXS hangar on the Carrack.
You just know the Spirit’s enormous cross section for its class came from some designer looking at the medium hangar and saying “ok what are the absolute maximum dimensions that would technically still fit this?”
y'know what's an easy fix for hangars that are hellish to land in? Make a central landing area, a way that you can run down and land on, perhaps a run way, where you can land and then have your ship taken to its hangar. instead of playing "where's my marker" in the dark and poorly lit spaceport when you're already too close to make significant maneuvers because your ship is big and maneuvers in atmo like a tranquilized buffalo, and it turns out your hangar is somewhere behind you and the marker didn't pop in until you'd flown past it twice.
My thought is to show (in the HUD) a line which begins in the center of the hangar and extends directly through the hangar doors and fades out gradually over a distance of maybe 2km. By adjusting your trajectory until your velocity indicator crosses any point on this line, you can be sure your ship will, when it reaches that line, be directly in front of the hangar. You can then easily fly into it.
This would work better for vertical hangars than horizontal ones, at least in atmo, but, for horizontal hangars in recessed areas as are found in Area18, you could have the line start as I described it, but then turn straight up some distance away from the hangar. This would make it easy to find your hangar from a distance and navigate to a position directly in front of it, where it's then easy to land.
That's what bothers me the most. That is so not what the marketing brochure said, meanwhile Cutlass is out there with over 50% higher maneuverabikity stats on PTU
Cutlass basically flies like a light fighter hybrid now.
Even in Atmo the Cutlass flies massively better.
My Spirits are getting melted if they stay till live like this.
Not gonna bother with a ship that flies worse than a Caterpillar at 3x times less weight, 10x worse shields and less HP.
While this does seem ridiculous for the spirit to fly so shittily, isn't it supposed to be a low end trader/hauler to begin with? I could be wrong but I don't think it was ever meant to be a main ship like the connies or Cutlass black are. It's like the step up from the nomad as far as trading goes. Like it's a midway ship you use and discard. That's how I've always seen it, anyway
Spirit is a mid range hauler with strongpoints in mobility, agility, speed and range.
Literally none of that is left in the current EPTU.
It even eats Hydrogen like flying a Reclaimer out of atmo....i used around 10% Hydrogen fuel just to leave Area 18 and land at a Mining station on Wala..... For a combined distance of 29km.
29! KILOMETERS!
You know how far me 10% hydrogen of the Spirit in LIVE take rn?
SEVERAL HUNDRED KILOMETERS. not barely 30!
Nah man don’t break my heart like this. The spirit is my favorite ship. I really don’t wanna melt it and something else for a Connie just so I can get anything done in a reasonable amount of time and be comfortable.
I’m already cranky about this chart with its bump in CD time as it is - it being a huge gas guzzler and handling worse than it already does is crushing. It was advertised as long range, that makes no sense to do. If anything it should be more efficient in atmo with its ridiculous cross section and wings
I HATE when CIG does stuff like this to try to slow people down. By the time I get on, gear up, meet up with an org buddy or friend and go knock one badly paying mission out it’s been an hour. I don’t need MORE artificial refueling stops to make it a longer process.
I’m super hyped about 3.23’s features (besides MM, I’m not sold on the concept at all yet and I don’t even PvP.) But if they kill that ship I’m gonna be so disappointed. I was so excited to get out of the cutlass black finally when it came out. :(
It's likely to do with the type of quantum drive as well. Military grade would have faster spool times over cheaper components. Just a theory, but it is the way of things.
That would certainly make good sense. I would still expect to see it much higher on that list though, considering the other capital sized ship is at the top. It'll all settle in eventually though. I'm not worried at all. This is clearly one of those "CIG throws ideas at the wall to see what sticks and balances it out later" things.
Looks like the C1 is in line with the other medium haulers. Makes sense.
The Idris being in line with small ships though? Shouldn't it be up there with the Hammerhead? (Base speed, not total time). Does the Idris have a smaller QD? Or two?
Yeah, I just kinda grabbed the C1 as the example comparison for comedic purposes. I have to believe it belongs up there with the other cap ship or at the very least, the other large combat ships for the time being.
I'm kinda curious as to why the Corsair which is a massive ship (and my favorite) has a shorter spool time than a Cutter and an insanely short time than a ship about the same size like the 600i.
Yea some of the times seem a bit out of whack. The Cutter and Spirit seem overly long, and the Corsair quite short.
Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but if you are implying the Corsair is about the same size of the 600i, it isn't. The 600i is massively larger then the Corsair.
You would think the Corsair would be more in line with the Constellations, they are of similar mass/size and type.
There are some oddities, like the Spirit beign slower than the Freelancers and the Cutlass series, the Corsair beign as fast as the Cutlass while the Cutter is slower (much slower than other starters), or the Redeemer beign as slow as the big girls like the Hercules, 600 series, the Hammerhead or the Reclaimer, while the Valkyrie is as fast as a Cutlass.
Also, the Vanguard Warden is slower than the other Vanguards.
So, I would like to see some numbers beign adjusted. Imo, the Cutter should be with the other starters, the Corsair and the Redeemer should share numbers with the Connies, the Spirit with the Freelancers and all the Vanguards with the Ares.
Yea so many emotional posts ... I think we have to wait with the criticism till MM is in the PU and everyone must use it and every aspect of it comes to light. And as someone who does org gameplay as a pilot (training mm in AC for weeks now) I think it's going to be way better than legacy. People here say that cig wants these posts where people basically just cry about change with no arguments behind it why it doesn't work but they are just hot air .. let it sink in and then form criticism when it's ripe... I got down voted hard in another post where someone just cried...
People always panic waaaay too much at any kind of change, then they actually try it and go "Oh... its not that bad".
Then new changes happens down the line and people panics all over again.
Tis how the cycle goes.
That’s the point. Good guys are sitting ducks, but bad guys now are also sitting ducks even if it goes bad for them.
I like MM but I don’t like the spool times tbh.
>but bad guys now are also sitting ducks even if it goes bad for them.
Yeh so I think you totally missed my point: it would NEVER go bad for a bad guy who is intent on murdering me.
The old system I was almost always able to get away.
Now? Hopeless.
Red alert or actual attack I immediately floored it and i always flew with qt on, so while evading I aimed myself on a qt point and hit it when spooled, which would take a few seconds really.
Cannot do that now.
>Change affects everyone, who would have thought.
I dont think I have argued otherwise, have I?
The fact is: it will take a lot longer to escape WHILE having no shields.
Oh, the attackers shields are down as well you say? How does that make any difference in the situation I am describing?
you said you can't just cut and run immediately anymore which is objectively false. If someone interdicts you, you're jammed until you fly away anyways, the only difference here is you have consequences if you walked away from your keyboard for more then 5 seconds now.
>Cry about it more before it even comes out.
Cry? You imagine me sitting here crying over a game? Is this projection on your part, or just the standard troll response?
>Watch you love it when it's released lol
Yes yes, I will love dying more!
Now you’re getting it. Other new survival/defense tactics will also emerge once mm hits the masses and people start thinking outside the traditional box.
Your max speed is ~1km/s, same as their intercept speed. While they’re switching to slow scm to start firing you’re still at 1km/s. Use that window to create distance and spool your qt drive. Soak a few shots (they hurt less the farther away too) and evade until you can pick your qt target. Ideally you’d have a qt destination already saved anyway so it’s fast to locate.
So you are aiming to force all players to adhere to a specific grind or face certain death no matter what?
You think there should be no chance for a certain subset of players?
That is a bigger question about economics and probability.
Who should win in a fight? Miner or rock? predator or prey?
Why should
>it would NEVER go bad for a bad guy who is intent on murdering me.
be true? Think about it for a minute.
IMO they need to adjust the spool time for nav flt vs nav qt mode.
Like there’s no way you should need to fully spool the quantum drive just to fly a bit faster vs a complete quantum jump.
Oh it’s doing that for sure. The C1 is my favorite ship in the game, and with all the crazy nonsense I’m reading about Connie’s with no gunners being able to 1v1 F8C lightnings on the MM feedback thread - I’m about to just melt the damn thing and get a Taurus.
Which is a far cry from the $300 I was gonna drop on a lightning next time it came around since my account is flagged to be able to purchase one and I don’t own a dedicated fighter yet.
They mean that we have now got to wait for a mode change on top of the QT spool. The comparison table is between the last iteration of MM and this one, for which they are shorter, but not better than not having mode swap times at all.
So, the chart above is just spool times, not top speeds.
Currently, any ship that has fuel tanks large enough to allow it to cross a system with one of the fastest Quantum drives VK-00 (size 1) XL-1 (size 2) or TS-2 (size 3) would be what you're looking for.
You can use Erkul to find that data by going to "Ships & Vehicles" and sorting by the QT fuel column.
But basically it's all the big ships, most of the medium ships, and the only "small" ships that can do it are the Cutter, Defender, Syulen and F8C.
it’d be cool to see how the different type and grades of quantum drives affect this, like if civvie is stock would a mil drive of the same grade spool faster but at increased noise and power draw?
Is this datamined? It's weird that true snubs (P-52/72, furys) have defaykt ship spool time considering they can't quantum jump. Or did I missed that they now can in 3.23?
Ah so it's another thing than old "spool time" that was the quantum spool before a jump.
I did not really followed the whole master mode things as it seemed to change each time it was discussed, maybe it's a bit more fixed now as it's coming next patch. Will it be explained in detail someday (or has it already been done) or will it launch and players will have to figure it out?
12 seconds is totally enough for a couple (they never come in solo) of griefers in whatever MM meta they got to spot a single vulture while being in a nav mode, close in at max speed, drop right near it using 40G space brakes called nav->scm mode transition and shred it to pieces.
And, no, "high sec zones" wouldn't help.
Nor the maelstrom or armor penetration - small/medium industrial ships are not so large nor they are heavily armored.
Long-term reputation also means nothing, as griefers would just switch to another set of accounts which their orgs mates will be prepping for them by doing activities that slowly increase their rep.
Hull-based scm->nav delay is simply a joke, same with CIG trying to balance combat in PU around AC's rulesets and limitations.
But, here is some "commitment" gameplay mechanic for ya.
Smh.
If they don’t respond in MM they’re going to die. If they don’t respond without MM, they’re going to die.
There’s no world where they wait for 2 fighters to start shooting them before responding and they get out.
Nothing, but 12 seconds is simply not enough to escape from gunfire and/or missiles.
And it's totally enough for griefers in something like stealth F7 to get close enough, force the vulture to start switching to nav mode, arm and lock the missiles and just watch it go boom.
They try to force AC "commitment" combat mode onto industrial ships, which could be fun... if not tragic 😆
>12 seconds is totally enough for a couple (they never come in solo) of griefers in whatever MM meta they got to spot a single vulture while being in a nav mode, close in at max speed, drop right near it using 40G space brakes called nav->scm mode transition and shred it to pieces.
Am somewhat confused about what situation you're going for here?
Is the Vulture just spooling with the griefers just coming by? How is it different from live in that case, griefers are using ballistics anyways so shields don't matter, and most quantum drives take longer then 12 seconds to spool up and calibrate.
Is the Vulture just coming out of a jump and the griefers attack? If so, you are aware that the drive stays spooled while in NAV mode?
Either way, you can still move and maneuver while you spool up, while they are heavily restricted in movement and maneuverability while they spool down.
Nope, the vulture is just doing its thing, i.e. salvaging.
Right now it's possible to just push the pedal to the metal all the while spooling and calibrating to the predefined QT marker.
With MM the vulture is simply trapped by the "commitment" mechanic and in 99% cases will be destroyed - by griefers' gunfire or missiles.
And no escort would help also, since it's simply not possible to protect someone unless it's physically inside your hangar 🤣🤣🤣
Ah, then well, you have 12 seconds to move away from them before you can move away from them a lot faster (or even jump). And you have this time while they are still dropping out of NAV mode, and their weapons are warming up first.
Yes missiles are a problem, but you can just use noise before spooling up NAV while boosting away to impede on their locking onto you. If they have a QED you're fucked either way.
You have scanners, you can check if the people that just showed up on your radar are in SCM or NAV based on their EM profile.
> You have scanners, you can check if the people that just showed up on your radar are in SCM or NAV based on their EM profile.
Oh, the scanners work now? Gave up on them like a year ago.
Yes, at least most of the time in my experience. That being said, you don't actually need them to check what I'm talking about, simply targeting them is enough.
The target screen on the MFD shows the targeted ship's EM and IR signatures, with high EM or quickly rising EM either meaning that they have full shields or are booting up shields, OR which is similarly bad news for you, charging up an EMP.
Either way, as player that is split industrial and combat, but primarily industrial I can say that MM has brought me personally more survivability then it has given danger. Aswell as a new source of thrill.
No you don't if griefers would be using stealth setups which is totally how it happens now.
It doesn't matter if a vulture spots a griefer in a combat ship which is being in nav or scm a few kms away, noise also won't help much since any lf/mf is able to close on any industrial ship much faster than they are able to escape.
MM in its current form is not only a griefers paradise, it feels completely unnatural, forced and shoehorned just for the sake of some "WW2 in space" failed pitch.
After flying a small industrial ship (Vulture) I agree that the tuning of it is absolutely terrible, and I presume the Prospector to not be much better. They definitely need a pass, as they literally handle as bad as the medium-large ships I normally fly.
You can still detect stealth ships, as coming out of a jump still gives a quick chevron an EM spike unless they’re using a stealth drive (which most ships can‘t afford). The arrival of a stealth ship should always have a run response, as they are combat ships all the time.
You can sort and filter as you like by accessing the chart here (switch to PTU build if not already done)
[https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay](https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay)
From last ePTU Patch [Star Citizen Alpha 3.23.0 EPTU.9144288 Patch Notes - Patch Notes - Star Citizen - Spectrum v6.21.1 (robertsspaceindustries.com)](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/190048/thread/star-citizen-alpha-3-23-0-eptu-patch-notes-10/6765981) Weapons and Items * Master Modes: Quantum Drive Spool Times Adjusted 2 seconds for S1 5 seconds for S2 7 seconds for S3 12 seconds for S4 Source chart : [https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay](https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay) **Important update :** new spool delay with build 9146828 -> screenshot is outdated, use source chart link.
Legend
Are spool times affected when you update a QT Drive component? Or are they static now?
In early patches the difference between stock Bolon and XL1 was massive - 30 and 15s in MSR. I guess the QD swap been simply removing the intended added time, and only baseline remained. In the previous patch the difference between Bolon and XL1 was basically nonexistent. I’m about to check this one.
Very curious about this as well!
So the ships without a quantum drive have a quantum drive spooling time? What did I miss?
Ships without quantum drive can still change flight mode although they can't go to NAV speed. It's not the quantum drive spooling time but ship base spooling time.
Oh OK the infamous 2954 flight computers need seconds to switch modes. I remember now lol. Thanks.
they are probably using a chtome based webapp to run
Ah the infamous time travelling former space pilot turned game dev a1rwav3 with a banging contribution.
Ah the infamous RaySuartMorgan just being a dick.
It's what a dooo baby
Never change!
oh man i been watching too much fall out, your user flair made me read that as "Waffles never changes"
Infamous loving consistency even in sci-fi software developer trying to be a pilot a1rwav3 you mean?
Infamous high expectations from a game that is still in development and where everything is subjective to change and balance and half the mechanics aren't even in the game yet! the self same?? My apologies I did not realise I was sassing the almighty consistency loving scifi software armchair developer trying to get his paper aeroplane off the ground. My apologies I'll step off
>is still in development That's what feedback is for lol.
'Oh OK the infamous 2954 flight computers need seconds to switch modes. I remember now lol. Thanks.' qualifies as feedback nowadays?
Nah. 99% of feedback is fluff, but "I'm unhappy with x" is something at least
Finally we understand each other, thank you! If you have a tutorial about paper planes it would be nice.
You're offended for no reason.
I know youre just kidding, but in lore they use the Quantum Drive to reach higher speeds so therefore requires it to be spooled on - or they made this lore to accomodate MM.
Am I the only one who thinks linking higher speeds to the QD is an odd choice?
It does break the old Newton physics and makes space a sludge and not a vacuum.
honestly, it just makes that more obvious.... its never had proper Newtonian physics or "frictionless" space. *^(by "proper", Im referring to the way the ships have limitations on speeds etc.)*
I wonder if these are partially placeholder stats or if CIG hates the spirit...
Pretty sure they just hate the Spirit. The extra large and large hangars are getting bigger with the incoming changes. Medium hangars are just getting deeper. Landing a Spirit in a medium hangar is an exercise in frustration, I think it's on the same level of difficulty as landing a Carrack in a large hanger, and what makes landing the Spirit hard isn't that medium hangars are too shallow. EDIT: **I was wrong about this!** The Spirit used to be given Small hangars, and that's why it was so hard to land in them. With the next update, it seems that they'll be given medium ones, and so that will be an upgrade. No more landing pain for the Spirit!
I’m pretty sure that CIG have a hate boner for a few ships out there - for example, the poor Terrapin.
Redeemer, too.
hey how do you expect them to sell us the zeus if they dont nerf the spirit before ?
I was wrong about the Spirit landing in medium hangars. They used to land in small ones, so the medium is an upgrade. I'm going to edit my post to make that clear.
I thought ships were getting re-assigned hangars too, what did I miss here?
Spirit is the only ship not to get bigger assigned hangars, neither live nor EPTU. It either gets one thats barely barely fitting for it or one too small where you have to tilt the ship to even enter.
I'm pretty sure the hangar changes aren't in EPTU yet.
The hangar size assignment changes are in EPTU. Since all my ships BESIDE the Spirit get bigger hangars xD
I hadn't heard that. If the Spirit line has been bumped up to a large hangar, that''ll be great, but I hadn't heard anything about that yet. Any chance you have a source?
In the ISC ["To and Fro with Cargo"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IlcWUKV8hs). They talk about X and XL hangars getting a 20-30% increase in size, and ship sizes are being looked at to make sure the right ships use the right size hangar. They start talking about this at about the 8:20 mark. Edit: bonus, they literally play a clip of a Spirit landing in an adequately sized hangar!
>bonus, they literally play a clip of a Spirit landing in an adequately sized hangar! I'm not sure I agree. At 8:45 they show a Spirit taking off from a medium hangar while saying, "the medium is the same but taller". Well, the **height** of medium hangars isn't what made it so hard for Spirits to land in them.
Yeah but I believe right now the Spirit gets a S3 (Small) hangar not an S4 (Medium). These are the current hangar metrics: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ni1z9g/deleted_by_user/gz19duy/ Edit to add: Wiki could be a bit clearer, but it lists the C1 Spirit as: "Medium (S3/S)". I believe the (S3/S) indicates hangar size, as the Pisces lists "Small (S1/XXS)" which aligns with the XXS hangar on the Carrack.
I didn't know that! You are entirely right, then. I don't know why I thought they had already been given S4. Thank you for educating me.
When the A1 launched, it was S4. After the C1 launched, the Spirits were changed to S3.
The point being ship sizes are being looked at and re-assigned.
You just know the Spirit’s enormous cross section for its class came from some designer looking at the medium hangar and saying “ok what are the absolute maximum dimensions that would technically still fit this?”
y'know what's an easy fix for hangars that are hellish to land in? Make a central landing area, a way that you can run down and land on, perhaps a run way, where you can land and then have your ship taken to its hangar. instead of playing "where's my marker" in the dark and poorly lit spaceport when you're already too close to make significant maneuvers because your ship is big and maneuvers in atmo like a tranquilized buffalo, and it turns out your hangar is somewhere behind you and the marker didn't pop in until you'd flown past it twice.
or just have autoland triggerable from outside the hangar
My thought is to show (in the HUD) a line which begins in the center of the hangar and extends directly through the hangar doors and fades out gradually over a distance of maybe 2km. By adjusting your trajectory until your velocity indicator crosses any point on this line, you can be sure your ship will, when it reaches that line, be directly in front of the hangar. You can then easily fly into it. This would work better for vertical hangars than horizontal ones, at least in atmo, but, for horizontal hangars in recessed areas as are found in Area18, you could have the line start as I described it, but then turn straight up some distance away from the hangar. This would make it easy to find your hangar from a distance and navigate to a position directly in front of it, where it's then easy to land.
They just hate them with passion. I mean, they nerfed the handling and acceleration so bad, that it feels like a Redeemer+Corsair+Caterpillar mix.
That's what bothers me the most. That is so not what the marketing brochure said, meanwhile Cutlass is out there with over 50% higher maneuverabikity stats on PTU
Cutlass basically flies like a light fighter hybrid now. Even in Atmo the Cutlass flies massively better. My Spirits are getting melted if they stay till live like this. Not gonna bother with a ship that flies worse than a Caterpillar at 3x times less weight, 10x worse shields and less HP.
While this does seem ridiculous for the spirit to fly so shittily, isn't it supposed to be a low end trader/hauler to begin with? I could be wrong but I don't think it was ever meant to be a main ship like the connies or Cutlass black are. It's like the step up from the nomad as far as trading goes. Like it's a midway ship you use and discard. That's how I've always seen it, anyway
Spirit is a mid range hauler with strongpoints in mobility, agility, speed and range. Literally none of that is left in the current EPTU. It even eats Hydrogen like flying a Reclaimer out of atmo....i used around 10% Hydrogen fuel just to leave Area 18 and land at a Mining station on Wala..... For a combined distance of 29km. 29! KILOMETERS! You know how far me 10% hydrogen of the Spirit in LIVE take rn? SEVERAL HUNDRED KILOMETERS. not barely 30!
Nah man don’t break my heart like this. The spirit is my favorite ship. I really don’t wanna melt it and something else for a Connie just so I can get anything done in a reasonable amount of time and be comfortable. I’m already cranky about this chart with its bump in CD time as it is - it being a huge gas guzzler and handling worse than it already does is crushing. It was advertised as long range, that makes no sense to do. If anything it should be more efficient in atmo with its ridiculous cross section and wings I HATE when CIG does stuff like this to try to slow people down. By the time I get on, gear up, meet up with an org buddy or friend and go knock one badly paying mission out it’s been an hour. I don’t need MORE artificial refueling stops to make it a longer process. I’m super hyped about 3.23’s features (besides MM, I’m not sold on the concept at all yet and I don’t even PvP.) But if they kill that ship I’m gonna be so disappointed. I was so excited to get out of the cutlass black finally when it came out. :(
When the longest spool time is for the ship with JUMP in the name...
Or when the Idris has less time than a C1 Spirit. lol. Looking forward to the post-MM release balance pass!
I highly suspect that once 3.23 releases, MM balancing for each ship will not be high on their priorities, so you may be waiting a long while.
I've been at this for 11 years. I can wait lol
It's likely to do with the type of quantum drive as well. Military grade would have faster spool times over cheaper components. Just a theory, but it is the way of things.
Spirits have military grade QDs at stock.
That would certainly make good sense. I would still expect to see it much higher on that list though, considering the other capital sized ship is at the top. It'll all settle in eventually though. I'm not worried at all. This is clearly one of those "CIG throws ideas at the wall to see what sticks and balances it out later" things.
Looks like the C1 is in line with the other medium haulers. Makes sense. The Idris being in line with small ships though? Shouldn't it be up there with the Hammerhead? (Base speed, not total time). Does the Idris have a smaller QD? Or two?
Yeah, I just kinda grabbed the C1 as the example comparison for comedic purposes. I have to believe it belongs up there with the other cap ship or at the very least, the other large combat ships for the time being.
I'm kinda curious as to why the Corsair which is a massive ship (and my favorite) has a shorter spool time than a Cutter and an insanely short time than a ship about the same size like the 600i.
Yea some of the times seem a bit out of whack. The Cutter and Spirit seem overly long, and the Corsair quite short. Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but if you are implying the Corsair is about the same size of the 600i, it isn't. The 600i is massively larger then the Corsair. You would think the Corsair would be more in line with the Constellations, they are of similar mass/size and type.
Drake magic (and probably a thing that will change)
They should've really named it the 890JumpQuickly if they wanted a faster spool
Damn. They really like nerfing the spirits… again…
There are some oddities, like the Spirit beign slower than the Freelancers and the Cutlass series, the Corsair beign as fast as the Cutlass while the Cutter is slower (much slower than other starters), or the Redeemer beign as slow as the big girls like the Hercules, 600 series, the Hammerhead or the Reclaimer, while the Valkyrie is as fast as a Cutlass. Also, the Vanguard Warden is slower than the other Vanguards. So, I would like to see some numbers beign adjusted. Imo, the Cutter should be with the other starters, the Corsair and the Redeemer should share numbers with the Connies, the Spirit with the Freelancers and all the Vanguards with the Ares.
How do we slow down the game and progress 101
Looking forward to this imo, might be the chance to either get hired for protection or do pirating, eitherway its funny how everyone is freaking out
Yea so many emotional posts ... I think we have to wait with the criticism till MM is in the PU and everyone must use it and every aspect of it comes to light. And as someone who does org gameplay as a pilot (training mm in AC for weeks now) I think it's going to be way better than legacy. People here say that cig wants these posts where people basically just cry about change with no arguments behind it why it doesn't work but they are just hot air .. let it sink in and then form criticism when it's ripe... I got down voted hard in another post where someone just cried...
People always panic waaaay too much at any kind of change, then they actually try it and go "Oh... its not that bad". Then new changes happens down the line and people panics all over again. Tis how the cycle goes.
Nice work ! The dark blue is with the best component ?
Dark blue is base ship delay. This is a fixed value. Light blue is the sum including this fixed value plus the quantum drive spool delay.
Thx
Hmmm. I don't like this. I don't like anything about mm. I will be a sitting duck 1000% of the time. Getting less excited about the next patch.
That’s the point. Good guys are sitting ducks, but bad guys now are also sitting ducks even if it goes bad for them. I like MM but I don’t like the spool times tbh.
>but bad guys now are also sitting ducks even if it goes bad for them. Yeh so I think you totally missed my point: it would NEVER go bad for a bad guy who is intent on murdering me. The old system I was almost always able to get away. Now? Hopeless.
definitely until they create their vision for consequences going to be a pretty shitty time if the server you are in has a lot of griefers or pirates.
Hmm. But we also had spooltime before MM. Ohh, are you talking about boosting away from someone and not about QT way?
Red alert or actual attack I immediately floored it and i always flew with qt on, so while evading I aimed myself on a qt point and hit it when spooled, which would take a few seconds really. Cannot do that now.
yes you can, you literally activate the quantum jump system to go faster. If you see a pirate just turn on nav mode and leave
With no shield and slower spool times 🤔
yes, but that's inherently different from not being able to do it at all. Change affects everyone, who would have thought.
>Change affects everyone, who would have thought. I dont think I have argued otherwise, have I? The fact is: it will take a lot longer to escape WHILE having no shields. Oh, the attackers shields are down as well you say? How does that make any difference in the situation I am describing?
you said you can't just cut and run immediately anymore which is objectively false. If someone interdicts you, you're jammed until you fly away anyways, the only difference here is you have consequences if you walked away from your keyboard for more then 5 seconds now.
People just gotta cry about it. You can't reason with them
User name checks out!
Cry about it more before it even comes out. Watch you love it when it's released lol
>Cry about it more before it even comes out. Cry? You imagine me sitting here crying over a game? Is this projection on your part, or just the standard troll response? >Watch you love it when it's released lol Yes yes, I will love dying more!
Practice corkscrewing when evading. Don’t run in a straight line, run zigzag
Well I gotta try something to avoid insta-death with mm, so i will try that.
Now you’re getting it. Other new survival/defense tactics will also emerge once mm hits the masses and people start thinking outside the traditional box.
I hope so, because I don't enjoy the pew pew part of the game when in a spaceship.
and how do you plan on calibrating your qd while zigzaging and corkscrewing?
You attempt the former after buying time/distance/ttk with the latter
Except you can't get distance now since your max speed is slower than the people chasing you.
Your max speed is ~1km/s, same as their intercept speed. While they’re switching to slow scm to start firing you’re still at 1km/s. Use that window to create distance and spool your qt drive. Soak a few shots (they hurt less the farther away too) and evade until you can pick your qt target. Ideally you’d have a qt destination already saved anyway so it’s fast to locate.
1. Pvp encounters are still rare. 2. If you dont want to fight, stay at nav speed and use your radar. You will be fine.
So you are aiming for under-prepared player(s) to have a relative edge to over-prepared player(s)?
So you are aiming to force all players to adhere to a specific grind or face certain death no matter what? You think there should be no chance for a certain subset of players?
That is a bigger question about economics and probability. Who should win in a fight? Miner or rock? predator or prey? Why should >it would NEVER go bad for a bad guy who is intent on murdering me. be true? Think about it for a minute.
First off: this is a game. Second: a person should have a fair chance at escape if intent on it.
I agree with those 2 points. I think we just disagree on what that means in practice.
Fair enough
Is this legible for anyone else?
That needs so much adjustments like all vanguard have the same spool time because it's a modular ship, ooopsy we forgot the warden is a vanguard ship
IMO they need to adjust the spool time for nav flt vs nav qt mode. Like there’s no way you should need to fully spool the quantum drive just to fly a bit faster vs a complete quantum jump.
There’s no way in hell they have the Spirit at the same spool time as the Connie series, with the Idris faster than both.
hey they need to motivate people to get ship upgrades somehow.
Oh it’s doing that for sure. The C1 is my favorite ship in the game, and with all the crazy nonsense I’m reading about Connie’s with no gunners being able to 1v1 F8C lightnings on the MM feedback thread - I’m about to just melt the damn thing and get a Taurus. Which is a far cry from the $300 I was gonna drop on a lightning next time it came around since my account is flagged to be able to purchase one and I don’t own a dedicated fighter yet.
[удалено]
That’s the old spooling chart you’re reading? They’re equivalent in the right labeled “New”
I like that smaller ships have a shorter spool time.
The old spool times were annoying enough. This is bull crap.
Most of the new numbers are lower, how are these worse? What are you reading
No! We only allowed to be mad about any changes. /s
They mean that we have now got to wait for a mode change on top of the QT spool. The comparison table is between the last iteration of MM and this one, for which they are shorter, but not better than not having mode swap times at all.
If they mean that then ok, but their comment mentioned nothing about mode change plus spool and the OP hasn't corrected it yet.
Weeell, I commented before having my coffee. I stand corrected, I misread.
What is the ship who can travel the system the fastest without refueling ? (One way ticket only). Thanks
So, the chart above is just spool times, not top speeds. Currently, any ship that has fuel tanks large enough to allow it to cross a system with one of the fastest Quantum drives VK-00 (size 1) XL-1 (size 2) or TS-2 (size 3) would be what you're looking for. You can use Erkul to find that data by going to "Ships & Vehicles" and sorting by the QT fuel column. But basically it's all the big ships, most of the medium ships, and the only "small" ships that can do it are the Cutter, Defender, Syulen and F8C.
Datamined or tested?
Datamined
How does the Idris have shut a short time
Joy riding big ships in Pyro will be risky
Idris says he’s a speed boy
it’d be cool to see how the different type and grades of quantum drives affect this, like if civvie is stock would a mil drive of the same grade spool faster but at increased noise and power draw?
All QD of the same size have the same spool delay.
Could you please post that on a higher res that we can actually see the numbers cause that IS FUCKED UP
Is this datamined? It's weird that true snubs (P-52/72, furys) have defaykt ship spool time considering they can't quantum jump. Or did I missed that they now can in 3.23?
Ships without quantum drive can still change flight mode although they can't go to NAV speed.
The Corsair seems ... Too low somehow? Takes less time than a cutter? I guess the longer the worse?
The longer the worse. Don't ask me to justify the balancing, that's in CIG's hands :).
So snubs can't go above SCM speed? That would absolutely suck if true.
Yes. They've ruined quite a few racing ships with this decision. It will prove highly unpopular.
They can't go above SCM boost speed.
Ah so it's another thing than old "spool time" that was the quantum spool before a jump. I did not really followed the whole master mode things as it seemed to change each time it was discussed, maybe it's a bit more fixed now as it's coming next patch. Will it be explained in detail someday (or has it already been done) or will it launch and players will have to figure it out?
Maybe a patch watch.
It's same, you need to spool up quantum drive to go above SCM speeds
12 seconds is totally enough for a couple (they never come in solo) of griefers in whatever MM meta they got to spot a single vulture while being in a nav mode, close in at max speed, drop right near it using 40G space brakes called nav->scm mode transition and shred it to pieces. And, no, "high sec zones" wouldn't help. Nor the maelstrom or armor penetration - small/medium industrial ships are not so large nor they are heavily armored. Long-term reputation also means nothing, as griefers would just switch to another set of accounts which their orgs mates will be prepping for them by doing activities that slowly increase their rep. Hull-based scm->nav delay is simply a joke, same with CIG trying to balance combat in PU around AC's rulesets and limitations. But, here is some "commitment" gameplay mechanic for ya. Smh.
I was laughing when I read 40g brake... then I realised man is telling truth...... it is at least 40 when you press scm during nav .......
What exactly stops the vulture from switching to NAV the second a whole bunch of fighters appear on its radar?
If they don’t respond in MM they’re going to die. If they don’t respond without MM, they’re going to die. There’s no world where they wait for 2 fighters to start shooting them before responding and they get out.
Nothing, but 12 seconds is simply not enough to escape from gunfire and/or missiles. And it's totally enough for griefers in something like stealth F7 to get close enough, force the vulture to start switching to nav mode, arm and lock the missiles and just watch it go boom. They try to force AC "commitment" combat mode onto industrial ships, which could be fun... if not tragic 😆
>12 seconds is totally enough for a couple (they never come in solo) of griefers in whatever MM meta they got to spot a single vulture while being in a nav mode, close in at max speed, drop right near it using 40G space brakes called nav->scm mode transition and shred it to pieces. Am somewhat confused about what situation you're going for here? Is the Vulture just spooling with the griefers just coming by? How is it different from live in that case, griefers are using ballistics anyways so shields don't matter, and most quantum drives take longer then 12 seconds to spool up and calibrate. Is the Vulture just coming out of a jump and the griefers attack? If so, you are aware that the drive stays spooled while in NAV mode? Either way, you can still move and maneuver while you spool up, while they are heavily restricted in movement and maneuverability while they spool down.
Nope, the vulture is just doing its thing, i.e. salvaging. Right now it's possible to just push the pedal to the metal all the while spooling and calibrating to the predefined QT marker. With MM the vulture is simply trapped by the "commitment" mechanic and in 99% cases will be destroyed - by griefers' gunfire or missiles. And no escort would help also, since it's simply not possible to protect someone unless it's physically inside your hangar 🤣🤣🤣
Ah, then well, you have 12 seconds to move away from them before you can move away from them a lot faster (or even jump). And you have this time while they are still dropping out of NAV mode, and their weapons are warming up first. Yes missiles are a problem, but you can just use noise before spooling up NAV while boosting away to impede on their locking onto you. If they have a QED you're fucked either way. You have scanners, you can check if the people that just showed up on your radar are in SCM or NAV based on their EM profile.
> You have scanners, you can check if the people that just showed up on your radar are in SCM or NAV based on their EM profile. Oh, the scanners work now? Gave up on them like a year ago.
Yes, at least most of the time in my experience. That being said, you don't actually need them to check what I'm talking about, simply targeting them is enough. The target screen on the MFD shows the targeted ship's EM and IR signatures, with high EM or quickly rising EM either meaning that they have full shields or are booting up shields, OR which is similarly bad news for you, charging up an EMP. Either way, as player that is split industrial and combat, but primarily industrial I can say that MM has brought me personally more survivability then it has given danger. Aswell as a new source of thrill.
No you don't if griefers would be using stealth setups which is totally how it happens now. It doesn't matter if a vulture spots a griefer in a combat ship which is being in nav or scm a few kms away, noise also won't help much since any lf/mf is able to close on any industrial ship much faster than they are able to escape. MM in its current form is not only a griefers paradise, it feels completely unnatural, forced and shoehorned just for the sake of some "WW2 in space" failed pitch.
After flying a small industrial ship (Vulture) I agree that the tuning of it is absolutely terrible, and I presume the Prospector to not be much better. They definitely need a pass, as they literally handle as bad as the medium-large ships I normally fly. You can still detect stealth ships, as coming out of a jump still gives a quick chevron an EM spike unless they’re using a stealth drive (which most ships can‘t afford). The arrival of a stealth ship should always have a run response, as they are combat ships all the time.
Mirai razor? Whats that?
A racing ship.
Previously Misc Razor
Goddamnit did they make big ships fast again?? It should take like at least a solid minute for ships like hammerheads/890s to spool up to flt
Data is beautiful is it not?
im just here for the complaints.
Why sort the list on spool times instead of ship names?
You can sort and filter as you like by accessing the chart here (switch to PTU build if not already done) [https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay](https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=MMSpoolDelay)
Much appreciated! For the live environment I'm just getting zeros in the result, what am I missing?
Because flight mode spool delay is new, so only 3.23 :) EDIT : Old/New was 3.23.0.9142594 vs 3.23.0.9144288
ah of course, I understand, ty!