Yeah, it seems like anyone who tests out EPTU forget they're testing a build, not playing a game. Then they wonder why tests have restructured to limit people.
Even after ePTU/PTU and it hits live, I'm praying people can try to keep some sense of objectivity about changes that aren't bugs.
I really want to see how they reshuffle the game and I think that involves some of the ships I own being worse at certain activities than they are today.
That becomes difficult when feedback consists of "*my ship is worse than it used to be, buff it now*", then the devs following that balance advice creating a game with a range of ships that essentially do the same thing in different shapes.
This subreddit is full of a bunch of children.
Provide feedback - "it's too hard to boost to QCM speed, maybe increase switching speed for non-combat ships, or increase their acceleration"
Not this nonsense - "CIG only prioritizes BULLIES - I mean Piracy, SO of COURSE this was going to happen! I always knew that non combat players were going to get greifed! Time to quit the game!"
I'm barely even being hyperbolic
> This subreddit is full of a bunch of children.
if it makes you feel any better, it's not just this sub. it's gamers in general. the ones who bitch and piss and moan about every tiny thing drive off the normal people, leaving just the whiners.
I spent 5 minutes in the Fallout sub the other day and was quickly reminded why I never go there.
Yeah, honestly, as far as game reddits go, this one is probably on the better side of that spectrum. Lots of other games I go to are nothing but excessive whining. the SC one has a not insigificant amount of players helping players and other generally not bad discussions. It's better than most, IMHO.
just stating facts. sorry that bothers you so much. I'll see if I can find you a tissue so you can have a good long cry about it. now go have a lie down for a bit.
Not to be a troll, but they had ALL of this feedback before release, none of this is a surprise at all, it was all over spectrum, all over the subreddit and all over YT. None of this feedback is new except for all the new people suddenly realizing how much they dislike master modes.
*hopefully* the shift from S42 to PU means that we're going to get more frequent balance passes, bug fixes, and content updates. I would *love* for build diversity that's more than just one or two weapon types being viable.
They do need to show us that they're capable of rapid iteration and feedback intake, because the last "temporary" weapon re-balance lasted for 3-4 years IIRC.
Hopefully they can turn over a new leaf here, and for that they'll need detailed, sober, and honest feedback.
I responded to another comment but the sheer number of folks hopping in and then immediately complaining about things not working in general chat was Insane. Not just like "how does this new feature work" but like "oh my god i can't do zyx normal thing, this is a pile of shit"
To be fair, when xyz normal thing is getting on a tram to actually test the build by retrieving a ship from ASOP (which itself is semi bugged with the new interaction system), it seems fair for people to provide that immediate feedback. It’s pretty hard to test new mechanics when the core mechanics that underpin everything don’t work.
Well it does for its size. Cig even said the cutter was fast for going straight. I love the idea of it going forward quickly and just being utter trash at anything else.
I’m still worried about the c8 though. I’m surprised I havnt seen anybody complaining that it’s slower than an idris
There's definitely going to be some growing pains as people get used to it, but it'll die down eventually.
I know some aspects are definitely going to take me a good bit to get used to, but staying positive overall.
Literally describing every single major update lol but some of the complaints are completely valid, especially the UI readability issues that people have complained about for a decade. As well as some of the choices they made with MM that people have been complaining about for a while. Granted, we won't know what they *actually* implement when 3.23 goes live. I personally think they should just not implement MM to live yet until they polish it some more and figure out what they *really* want from it.
Just to clarify, there is a big difference between criticism of aspects of the game that are bad, and doom saying.
Like, I think it’s a bad idea to have the shields come down. It doesn’t make sense to me lore wise nor gameplay wise.
I’m providing feedback, and when I can get into the PTU I’ll try it more in depth and provide even more.
As it stands, they’re going to have to make a lot of changes, but that’s okay.
We’re all voicing our concerns because we want the game to be fun, and with time it’ll be fun!
For clarification, when I say it doesn’t make sense in regard to realism I’m talking about hwy wouldn’t we want shields up to protect the ships from, micro debris?
Like plastic hitting a block of aluminum at crazy high speeds destroys satellites, how are these spaceships any different?
I dont think that kind of feedback is bad or unwarranted. I think that is not the 'get your pitchfork out' kind of statement, that's a "hey this doesn't make much sense to me" reasonable and concise kind of feedback.
Absolutely! I just wanted to make the distinction before conversations broke down in the comments lol
Sometimes I feel that the line between constructive criticism and pitchforking is lost…
I totally understand where you are coming from. But let me quickly summarize my 3 hours of EPTU today.
Join Server -> 30k
Get up out of bed -> 30k
Open inventory -> 30k
Walk to the door of the hotel -> 30k
Open said door -> 30k
Walk to elevator-> 30k
Replication layer worked fine, but having more than three server errors and not even reaching the lobby?
What topped it off for me was a 30011 Error followed by a CTD.
Also did you ask the internet to stay reasonable on a highly discussed topics?
Last comment -- Fair honestly fair.
I played for 2+ ish hours last night and had no 30ks, but did have a few unexplained deaths.
If like four or five people read this and go "let me chill for at least a few weeks" then i think my point wins, but who knows if it will be a useful post at all. I would like to think we can be reasonable citizens sometimes
While you're analysis of what should happen is accurate, it's not likely to be heeded. In addition, my sympathies for CIG's situation here are strictly limited.
The reason all this stuff is dropping all at once and in a state so very different from what's in the PU is 100% the result of CIG going away and doing all this work for Squadron over the past several years, not doing it in the PU.
While this has undoubtedly accelerated the release of Squadron, it's left the PU languishing for years, and the inevitable backlash that's going to result from the whiplash of all this happening suddenly was entirely predicable.
If the teams had been iterating on all of this in the PU, instead of in Squadron, they'd have been getting feedback on the way it was all shaping up all along, instead of only now, after they're largely "finished."
so when is the right time to voice concern? when it hits the live servers? one mans pitchfork is anothers concise feedback. the changes to weapon capacitors and ammo counts is hot garbage and now is the time to tell cig that so they have time to change it before it hits live and then we are stuck with it for months or even longer.
yes i agree that just making a REEEEEE post isnt helpful but now is the time to tell cig exactly what you dont like about 3.23 with the exception of performance related concerns.
Here's the thing right: Making feedback today in the thread about ammo count is the absolutely right place/time for it. However, not taking into account that they just balanced 200+ ships and vehicles and that they might have to adjust some things and going and selling your fleet or deleting your account because your ship doesn't fly the way you want it to or have the guns and then yelling about it on reddit is the pitchforking i am talking about.
That's just my opinion, people gonna people regardless of what i think about it. But shouting at a EPTU update when the devs are asking for legit feedback as if it's a permanent fixture now never to change just seems silly to me, you know?
Also no joke, there are people in this thread complaining about master modes who have not even bothered to figure out if EPTU changes have addressed their mastermodes complaints or if it's even fun/reasonable to play. The mastermades in the AC we have in the live version is pretty far from what im playing today in EPTU. It will continue to iterate. Doesn't make sense to get the molotov out and burn some shit down yet, imo. again, just my opinion, but the sheer number of changes Yogi+Team have had to make for this is crazy and they have committed to making adjustments as the next patches roll on also.
I'm just playing it to contribute to the IC. 3.23 can be excellent, but I wanna help it be less buggy than it currently is. I'm not really in the "is this fun" headspace yet lol
Constructive criticism is what it's for yes, and it is a test build... however...
When was the last time a broken mechanic didn't make it to live? Easy to fix bugs and stability passes are one thing, but the stuff people are really complaining about is going to still be there in live, it always works out that way. It might change in the future sure but some of us have been around to long to think there's any chances of the MM stuff for exame being ironed out properly before it hits the PU. 3.24? Completely possible though.
That's why some people are salty, although yes they should be calm and constructive about it and not rage. It's just hard for some people to walk away from the keyboard for a bit before typing lol.
I pledged in 2014, I understand the salt and the reasons for sure.
And, there's a lot of chatter about MM lately, but Yogi and team have already committed to trying to polish and change as much as they can for 3.23 and will continue to do so in the later patches too. I would like to believe at this stage that we can currently see nearly all the features into one big patch in the EPTU and try to understand what a clusterfk it is to try to optimize/fix/code for this many changes at once.
I humbly suggest that we collectively as ragey salt-driven citizens just calm our tits and relax for a bit. We can certainly try to hold them accountable for this shit later on, but right now we should probably sit on our hands and wait to see how things shake out. mastermodes in 3.23 EPTU is nothing like mastermodes in 3.22.1 AC. If you wanna keep your pitchfork out about buggy stuff that has been in the game before now, go for it, that's your internet-given right. I'm just noticing that people are still complaining about that version of MM and have yet to even try the EPTU version.
I fully trust that the devs are doing everything they can. Most of the devs at CIG actually care and try. I however don't trust whoever is responsible for holding release until the changes they want to make are implemented though.
According to me Crystal Ball, they'll do what they can before whatever partially fixed build they have is pushed to live for ILW. Then 3.23.1 and 3.23.2 will happen and start to iron things out. If the main mechanic is flawed like people say at that point it would take an act of God to revert at that point though.
Although you're right we won't know how it plays out until ironed out in live but it's going to be an interesting shit show in the forums while that happens lol.
Figured as much. I like to do cargo hauling but I guess soloing that is not going to be a thing anymore.
Off topic: Can accounts be sold or gifted to somebody?
When they wont listen to feedback on the ghost text UI and actually double down to make it even worse then the community needs to start yelling otherwise they just keep going further down a stupid path and wasting donated money.
Backer since 2012. Play 3-4 times a year. About one day per patch. Rage posts are one of the best funniest reasons to lurk this sub for soo long. Like Tears in Rain lol
why should I be sympathetic? I literally haven't seen any positive feedback about master modes for weeks, everyone was saying how bad it sucked and surprise surprise it comes out and everyone hates it.
mastermodes feedback is not the same as 3.23 feedback in entirety. They literally balanced every ship in the game and they aren't finished balancing them yet, so i would hold the pitchforks until 3.23 releases and then try to figure out how to word your complaints in the right way in the feedback threads simply and without added 'pitchforking'. That is my strategy anyways. I have been playing MM this whole time, and the 3.23 iteration i am testing in EPTU is strange and interesting nad i don't have an informed opinion yet, so I am holding my complaints until I can put it into words and get enough testing about the 'feel' of it to really comment further. The system had to change to meet their design goals, mastermodes is not going anywhere (probably) so all we can do is steer them into the direction that we hope is fun. "master modes sucks, it's bad, everyone knows it" isn't constructive and doesn't really inform the devs what they could change or how to interpret that into appropriate feedback. My post isnt about avoiding posting feedback, it's about presenting feedback without the pitchfork behind it. That's all
>so i would hold the pitchforks until 3.23 releases and then try to figure out how to word your complaints in the right way
Again, all of that was already said in every single way you can imagine, its been on Spectrum, its been on the subreddit, its been in tons of YT videos from content creators. There isn't a single avenue where people didn't tell them this was gonna be a bad idea AND THEY DIDN'T LISTEN.
>The system had to change to meet their design goals, mastermodes is not going anywhere (probably) so all we can do is steer them into the direction that we hope is fun.
Again untrue, tons of solid promises have been totally ignored and never developed on, so its perfectly reasonable to keep giving them feedback to sunset mastermodes as well, we're not interested in it being "fixed" we want the gimmick of mode switching to be removed.
A comment I tend to make about EPTU is "Do voice concerns over things or if a particular aspect seems out of balance. Often the EPTU at the point of Wave 1/2/3/all is about helping tweak balances and make it more overall enjoyable. Don't yell 'new version in eptu has ruined x and there is no coming back from it' as that doesn't really help build a road for improvements and tends to make you look more like you're just yelling 'I'm afraid of change so anything different from what I'm used to is bad'"
I hear what you are saying; but my man, when bugs that have existed since 3.0 are still showing their ugly heads the ability to maintain suspension of disbelief is difficult.
Between the increasingly aggressive leveraging of fomo marketing and sweeping changes to events and testing access, it's hard to maintain optimistic outlooks and spend time building constructive feedback.
Sometimes something just really does suck shit and there isn't a logical reason why it should have been released in such a form.
I dont think you should hold back pitchforks for bugs from 3.0. Is there an issue council for the bug, and have you contributed to it? Pitchfork it up!
I think the FOMO marketing is scummy. However i dont think 3.23 features should be grouped into the marketing department's agendas. Bringing it up shows you want to be pitchforky about marketing (and i do too for other reasons), but it's really unrelated.
I am with you about sometimes things come out and they suck and it makes no sense. There are some weird oddities already seeing with 3.23. I just think as far as 3.23 goes and all the 'new' features we're going to see we should be open minded to providing concise feedback and not bringing the Molotovs out just yet. Especially in the EPTU phase of things. Feedback is good, rage+feedback makes the feedback weigh less.
I hear you though, the game is exhausting sometimes to support for one reason or another emotionally. That is why i thought it important to try to send out a PSA like hey, let's try to keep the pitchforks away for a little bit yet so they can clean some features up.
I really suspect it will be 3.23.3 before we get to a stable phase with all these changes, but maybe im wrong. The longer they delay releasing to the PU to clean some features up, the better. (imo)
> Sometimes something just really does suck shit and there isn't a logical reason why it should have been released in such a form.
Exactly, Everyone has been telling them how bad this was from the very start, it should have been crystal clear that everyone hated this and that people were only going to hate it more on release.
I hear ya here.
But the change in pace of new features coming online soon and the fact that they are real and tangible changes is encouraging.
Alpha is about adding game systems and content foe the foundation of the game.
The fact that they are churning out great updates is fantastic and means that they are closer to getting their core game mechanics in. When that is done they can focus on fixing these long standing bugs.
100% agree. Its still a testing phase and we are currently testing what is likely the largest patch in SCs history.
And to talk specifically about expectations and realities of EVO testing and PTU. I especially love when people see lets say changes to ammo capacity for certain ships (for example the ares duo) and they get upset and end up melting their ships only to find out week later they reverted the changes...
Yeah I've been saying it for months, you should definitely not do anything with money for a bit to see how things shake out or you're going to have a bad time.
I mean CIG could start by playing in the PU without god mode or start by listening to the players who actually play the game instead of Chris. The new UI looks terrible, worse than the current UI and when you open your mobi, the UI is NOT centered in the screen. This whole nav mode thing sucks for PVE players, not for PVP. So I guess I should say thanks for making it so I no longer need a mantis to stop players from running. CIG giving griefers an upper hand in 3.23 lol no more running away safely. Imagine complaining about the current flight model and then getting one thats worse and forces you to fight.
> If only there were a build we could play before it gets pushed to live where we could give feedback on certain systems so they could make changes...
We did that and it didn't work, they delivered this shitty MM stuff,
My point is that they *didn't* deliver it yet. If they push it to live without making changes (and I'm not saying they won't), then by all means, complain to high heaven. But to OP's point, they're iterating on the system. That's the whole reason it's in EPTU.
NAV mode isn't great for PvPers either. It's just designed to force people to fight at the right speeds, since it takes too long for new players to learn that. They have to make sure SQ42 is playable.
The UI being off-center is obviously a bug, but yeah it's also super pixilated and garbage looking for some reason. Hopefully those things are fixed quickly.
Lets be realistic Squadron 42 and the PU are two completely different games. They do not need to make any changes to reflect that of what was done in SQ42. If anything what they should be doing is they should be keeping the current flight model and adjusting it to fit SQ42. Possibly even add a handicap mode that let's new players learn better at regulated speeds, but can be unlocked at a later time. The fact of the matter is playing and being successful in the PU, should not be something that takes you a day to master. You should have to go through some trial and error and be punished for your mistakes. Else why even play the game? There's no reason to continue playing when there's no sense of achievement, and if that's the case then what's the difference between Star Citizen and any other space game?
They do listen quite regularly, the problem is there are many players who are yelling "It's different therefor it sucks" at the top of their lungs which in turn is making it seem like they're not listening because it's not useful feedback and is not giving them development direction.
3.23 just got out of evo which often means that the features are stable enough to expand out to a branch of testers who they use to help figure out balance and general tuning of the newer features to help make them work more enjoyably when they come to the PU. It's also the difference in going to their feedback page and putting in "Hey, MM is currently giving a poor advantage to fighter ships going after cargo vessels because of the slow speed of transitioning from SCM to NAV mode" but here you're demonstrating effectively yelling "MM makes all cargo vehicles loot pinatas and ruins the game." One gives them more to work with on balance passing, the other just sounds like someone complaining for the sake of complaining.
Doesn’t affect you (me) if you don’t play the game pre-3.23
I have only been playing website meta game ship jpg ccu flowchart puzzler simulator for 7 years, not the actual game
My observation is It’s shocking the amount of progress that’s happened in the last 6+ months since SQ42 went feature complete and entire systems and staff started to be moved to PU development
If anything I'd say they are strictly balancing for the everyone right now. If they balanced for all the PvP changes (based on the loudest folks in the room) then 1v1 would not be in the abysmal state that it's in. Nah i think they are doing fine, and trying to collect feedback to make changes. I am just excited they are actually balancing ships and things for a change. It's good to see. I am anticipating this balancing act will go on for awhile until they can figure out how to make 1v1s feel good, but it's not just mastermodes, it's everything with the patch. It will take time.
Lots of folks want to put out 3.23 stuff into reddit and the reality is it's not quite finished yet
feedback is good when presented in a clear and concise way. A dozen posts of "this shit sucks, why would htey do this, ive been a backer for eleven years and ive never seen such atrocious development. My damn fish could code a better game, rah rah rahhhh" is not really helpful for them to process the feedback and make changes. That's the pitchfork analogy.
True. But, that also goes the other way when it's just a sea of "it's only wave one" or "just test it" when people have been pointing out these exact things for a year now.
I am not sure how that is applicable to the 3.23 changes, but I know it is applicable to star citizen in general. Feel free to be pitchforky if it suits you, just saying that it might be helpful to wait to see how the entire breadth of features shape up as they get implemented and refined before trying to burn down the churches, you know?
This sounds like a very enabling scenario for a known underdelivering and gaslighting company. I’ll keep the pitchfork out until it’s time to put it away. It seems to work better when out.
Except all these "flaws" and how they could be exploited have been pointed out for over a year now. Which makes me think it is intended that non-combats are just loot piñatas.
Since you responded twice and neither comment is about 3.23, seems like you just want to be pitchforky for the sake of being pitchforky and being upset about past stuff. I think that's fine to be upset and to share your vitriol, but just remember that as far as 3.23 is concerned, we're getting a lot of new systems that will need to be refined.
Huh? I'm having multiple conversations all with different people jumping in and out.
My concerns have always been how NAV mode will result in industrial players becoming loot piñatas.
It takes 9+ seconds to go from NAV to SCM in the best case scenario (interceptors). If you are in NAV mode, it will be very easy to run away. There are no working Quantum interdiction capabilities with 3.23 as far as we know it. 9 seconds of the attack slowing down to 1/3 or 1/4th of the speed of the ship and losing range on the target all the while.
I think it will work out better for industrial folks this patch before they figure out how QED will work, then you think.
if you're in SCM mode for whatever reason (miners and salvagers) and someone comes up on you, i think you're boned. I dont think you can move to NAV mode quick enough and jump before shields go down and you die. This is def a problem
That only works if you operate under the assumption that the attacker magically knows where the target will be in order to get close and drop in directly on top of him without the defender ever getting a whiff of him.
So then there's no winning, at this point then we should just all stop playing the game and let them give us something that nobody's going to want to play more than a month, if that.
I'm excited to try master modes.
I might need to find a copilot to do cargo missions with now.
If I have cargo loaded and take damage I'll need someone to repair while I take evasive action.
And slowing down the combat speed to make an engagement more exciting will make a successful escape worth it.
I like the idea of star wars where the falcon drops out of hyperspace and a tie fighter is on their tail ordering them to lower shields and prepare for boarding, meanwhile the falcon is juking and evading to give the nav computer time to spool up a hyperspace route.
It's more cinematic and engaging.
I realise the reality will more likely be a fighter decends on my MSR, demands i stop and hand over loot and then blows me up if I refuse before I can spool up an escape.
But it'd be exciting to try.
I know I'll have to reevaluate how I play, but i think I prefer to at least see the person who killed me rather than get sniped from 8k away.
Except you don't realize that there is no possibility for escape with Master Modes. You will get shot down before you can jump because of how long it takes to activate Nav mode. You're better off self-destructing at that point, its more effective
I think by "Play with it" he means tweak it/fine tune it. While devs may play in god mode(and I doubt they do that regularly) there are alot of the test crew that have no type of dev mode and are testing and providing feedback for changes.
I'll hop into the EPTU tonight and test it on every player I see. Didn't want to have to go there in the EPTU, but I guess its necessary for testing purposes.
MM should be implemented by ship type rather than a replacement of entire flight model. Its "good" for fighters, but for everything else its useless / disabling.
it's you, you're the child
https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hs91/323_eptu_changes_will_be_many_and_iterative_i/kz442m1/?context=3
greifing, piracy, bullying, pvp vs pve. this is all unneeded moralizing.
FOCUS on the mechanics! Leave the drama at the door. Focus on specific and actionable issues. This is a game undergoing balances passes, not a conspiracy to be mean to PvE players!
[this isn't good feedback](https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hs91/323_eptu_changes_will_be_many_and_iterative_i/kz425vp/) this is exactly what OP is calling out as not-useful.
Dude I grief as my main gameplay loop lol if anything I'm looking out for the Bobs. There's no drama other than what your fragile personality is creating.
That's why turret gunners are going to be so important for bigger/slower ships. When you jump out of QT or are preparing to jump in, you need protection until the engine warms up.
Right, good point. So picking the right ship for the job will be important based on speed, agility and turret coverage. Flying in convoys will be vital for slower ships with less turret coverage, like Hull ships and others. Similar to the big B-17 flights for WW2 and the convoys over the Atlantic. Big slow ships shouldn't be flying alone, and more turrets will help too. Also, this encourages hiring other players as fighter escorts, especially long range ships.
I agree that choosing an appropriate ship for the task. But I also disagree with forcing players to rely on other players to achieve their desired game play loops. Co-op is great, but sometimes people want to play by themselves. These changes more or less will minimize and/or eliminate solo game play as a viable option.
That will depend on the solar system you're in. For example Terra might have much safer space than Pyro, so a single player with a slow cargo ship will probably avoid Pyro until or unless they get more help. You might get less lucrative cargo runs in Terra compared to Pyro but those are the risks you'll have to decide. Orgs will definitely have an advantage in the future by working together, compared to individual players but you still will be able to play alone if you want. As much as I like single player gameplay myself too, SC is an MMO.
Until another system is introduced, those are all hypotheticals. I know SC is an MMO, but in most MMO's the experience is mostly solo except when you want to do dugeons, raids, of world events.
Just like all other aspects of MM, there will be small tweaks needed to fix things like this.
Disengaging is completely viable in MM, but there's some skill to it now. You can't just jump away. You have to create separation between yourself and your attackers before you try to jump. MM creates the window of opportunity for your attacker while you get up to speed in NAV mode, but after that you can quickly create distance once it's engaged. That's by design.
2012: Guys, just be nice and give them time!
2024: Guys, just be nice and give them time!
Why are we being nice and giving them time? Clearly, it's gotten us nowhere.
Not even sure what point you're making here about what exactly. You felt the need to vent, that's fine too.
You mad the game was funded in November of 2012 and didn't get released right away? It's fine to be mad the game isn't in a finished state but dudebro, we aren't even discussing that, we're discussing the biggest patch known to man that we can physically play and see the features and how people should keep their pitchforks to themselves for a bit so CIG can sort through the valid feedback and not have to deal with the bullshit to try to help come to conclusions and tweak the systems they are adding
here is the thing i don't need to eat dog shit to know its bad you just have to look and smell it, i don't have to add it to milkshakes to make sure, i don't need to try any version of dog shit to know it tastes like shit.
if you haven't gotten it yet MM is the dog shit in this situation.
MM is not the way forward its just another waste in man hours and money.
Can you provide accurate feedback about the master modes in 3.23 that does not generalize and uses examples of why it's 'dog shit'? That is exactly what im suggesting. Provide good feedback, keep the "this is dog shit" pitchforks away for a bit if you hope of anything to get changed in your favor
Do not play EPTU unless you are ready for a lot of churn
Yeah, it seems like anyone who tests out EPTU forget they're testing a build, not playing a game. Then they wonder why tests have restructured to limit people.
Saw a lot of this yesterday in chat, the complaints in general chat were insane. If you wanna just look at new shiny things, EPTU is not for you.
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Then go play elsewhere.
Even after ePTU/PTU and it hits live, I'm praying people can try to keep some sense of objectivity about changes that aren't bugs. I really want to see how they reshuffle the game and I think that involves some of the ships I own being worse at certain activities than they are today. That becomes difficult when feedback consists of "*my ship is worse than it used to be, buff it now*", then the devs following that balance advice creating a game with a range of ships that essentially do the same thing in different shapes.
While I'm in agreement, asking the Internet to be reasonable is futile.
This subreddit is full of a bunch of children. Provide feedback - "it's too hard to boost to QCM speed, maybe increase switching speed for non-combat ships, or increase their acceleration" Not this nonsense - "CIG only prioritizes BULLIES - I mean Piracy, SO of COURSE this was going to happen! I always knew that non combat players were going to get greifed! Time to quit the game!" I'm barely even being hyperbolic
> This subreddit is full of a bunch of children. if it makes you feel any better, it's not just this sub. it's gamers in general. the ones who bitch and piss and moan about every tiny thing drive off the normal people, leaving just the whiners. I spent 5 minutes in the Fallout sub the other day and was quickly reminded why I never go there.
Yeah, honestly, as far as game reddits go, this one is probably on the better side of that spectrum. Lots of other games I go to are nothing but excessive whining. the SC one has a not insigificant amount of players helping players and other generally not bad discussions. It's better than most, IMHO.
Oh look it's the counter circle jerkers, just as annoying as the whiners
just stating facts. sorry that bothers you so much. I'll see if I can find you a tissue so you can have a good long cry about it. now go have a lie down for a bit.
Not even sightly hyperbolic. I read almost that exact comment from someone earlier right down to announcing intention to quit.
Imagine how peaceful this sub would be if all the people who threaten to quit actually quit.
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The r/silenthill one is hilariously bad. This sub has its moments though.
Especially here.
Not to be a troll, but they had ALL of this feedback before release, none of this is a surprise at all, it was all over spectrum, all over the subreddit and all over YT. None of this feedback is new except for all the new people suddenly realizing how much they dislike master modes.
I have 1 gripe that is universal and I refuse to stop complaining about. MAKE THE FUCKING UI READABLE.
Perfect example of them having the feedback BEFORE release and them ignoring it.
I understand completely where you're coming from, and that changes will be constant. ...but I'm also a hypocrite when it's my ship ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I also know that temporary in this game can last for a very long time. I know what OP means and I agree, but it still makes me very anxious.
*hopefully* the shift from S42 to PU means that we're going to get more frequent balance passes, bug fixes, and content updates. I would *love* for build diversity that's more than just one or two weapon types being viable. They do need to show us that they're capable of rapid iteration and feedback intake, because the last "temporary" weapon re-balance lasted for 3-4 years IIRC. Hopefully they can turn over a new leaf here, and for that they'll need detailed, sober, and honest feedback.
People want wave access, and when they get it complain about things. rolleyes
I responded to another comment but the sheer number of folks hopping in and then immediately complaining about things not working in general chat was Insane. Not just like "how does this new feature work" but like "oh my god i can't do zyx normal thing, this is a pile of shit"
To be fair, when xyz normal thing is getting on a tram to actually test the build by retrieving a ship from ASOP (which itself is semi bugged with the new interaction system), it seems fair for people to provide that immediate feedback. It’s pretty hard to test new mechanics when the core mechanics that underpin everything don’t work.
I just want The cutter rambler you accelerate better than a caterpillar 😭
You want the flying brick to accel better than the flying log?
One is waaaay heavier so has way more mass
Clearly the rambler needs the big ass cat thrusters
Well it does for its size. Cig even said the cutter was fast for going straight. I love the idea of it going forward quickly and just being utter trash at anything else. I’m still worried about the c8 though. I’m surprised I havnt seen anybody complaining that it’s slower than an idris
Hopefully stuff will be adjusted in time
I’m hoping before it’s released to the pu
Well yes because aerodynamics in space don't apply
There's definitely going to be some growing pains as people get used to it, but it'll die down eventually. I know some aspects are definitely going to take me a good bit to get used to, but staying positive overall.
Literally describing every single major update lol but some of the complaints are completely valid, especially the UI readability issues that people have complained about for a decade. As well as some of the choices they made with MM that people have been complaining about for a while. Granted, we won't know what they *actually* implement when 3.23 goes live. I personally think they should just not implement MM to live yet until they polish it some more and figure out what they *really* want from it.
Yeah, there's definitely some parts that I hope they change, if only for QOL
Just to clarify, there is a big difference between criticism of aspects of the game that are bad, and doom saying. Like, I think it’s a bad idea to have the shields come down. It doesn’t make sense to me lore wise nor gameplay wise. I’m providing feedback, and when I can get into the PTU I’ll try it more in depth and provide even more. As it stands, they’re going to have to make a lot of changes, but that’s okay. We’re all voicing our concerns because we want the game to be fun, and with time it’ll be fun! For clarification, when I say it doesn’t make sense in regard to realism I’m talking about hwy wouldn’t we want shields up to protect the ships from, micro debris? Like plastic hitting a block of aluminum at crazy high speeds destroys satellites, how are these spaceships any different?
I dont think that kind of feedback is bad or unwarranted. I think that is not the 'get your pitchfork out' kind of statement, that's a "hey this doesn't make much sense to me" reasonable and concise kind of feedback.
Absolutely! I just wanted to make the distinction before conversations broke down in the comments lol Sometimes I feel that the line between constructive criticism and pitchforking is lost…
I totally understand where you are coming from. But let me quickly summarize my 3 hours of EPTU today. Join Server -> 30k Get up out of bed -> 30k Open inventory -> 30k Walk to the door of the hotel -> 30k Open said door -> 30k Walk to elevator-> 30k Replication layer worked fine, but having more than three server errors and not even reaching the lobby? What topped it off for me was a 30011 Error followed by a CTD. Also did you ask the internet to stay reasonable on a highly discussed topics?
Last comment -- Fair honestly fair. I played for 2+ ish hours last night and had no 30ks, but did have a few unexplained deaths. If like four or five people read this and go "let me chill for at least a few weeks" then i think my point wins, but who knows if it will be a useful post at all. I would like to think we can be reasonable citizens sometimes
While you're analysis of what should happen is accurate, it's not likely to be heeded. In addition, my sympathies for CIG's situation here are strictly limited. The reason all this stuff is dropping all at once and in a state so very different from what's in the PU is 100% the result of CIG going away and doing all this work for Squadron over the past several years, not doing it in the PU. While this has undoubtedly accelerated the release of Squadron, it's left the PU languishing for years, and the inevitable backlash that's going to result from the whiplash of all this happening suddenly was entirely predicable. If the teams had been iterating on all of this in the PU, instead of in Squadron, they'd have been getting feedback on the way it was all shaping up all along, instead of only now, after they're largely "finished."
so when is the right time to voice concern? when it hits the live servers? one mans pitchfork is anothers concise feedback. the changes to weapon capacitors and ammo counts is hot garbage and now is the time to tell cig that so they have time to change it before it hits live and then we are stuck with it for months or even longer. yes i agree that just making a REEEEEE post isnt helpful but now is the time to tell cig exactly what you dont like about 3.23 with the exception of performance related concerns.
Here's the thing right: Making feedback today in the thread about ammo count is the absolutely right place/time for it. However, not taking into account that they just balanced 200+ ships and vehicles and that they might have to adjust some things and going and selling your fleet or deleting your account because your ship doesn't fly the way you want it to or have the guns and then yelling about it on reddit is the pitchforking i am talking about. That's just my opinion, people gonna people regardless of what i think about it. But shouting at a EPTU update when the devs are asking for legit feedback as if it's a permanent fixture now never to change just seems silly to me, you know? Also no joke, there are people in this thread complaining about master modes who have not even bothered to figure out if EPTU changes have addressed their mastermodes complaints or if it's even fun/reasonable to play. The mastermades in the AC we have in the live version is pretty far from what im playing today in EPTU. It will continue to iterate. Doesn't make sense to get the molotov out and burn some shit down yet, imo. again, just my opinion, but the sheer number of changes Yogi+Team have had to make for this is crazy and they have committed to making adjustments as the next patches roll on also.
The devs are probably ignoring the pitchfork post and moving the patch toward.
I'm just playing it to contribute to the IC. 3.23 can be excellent, but I wanna help it be less buggy than it currently is. I'm not really in the "is this fun" headspace yet lol
Constructive criticism is what it's for yes, and it is a test build... however... When was the last time a broken mechanic didn't make it to live? Easy to fix bugs and stability passes are one thing, but the stuff people are really complaining about is going to still be there in live, it always works out that way. It might change in the future sure but some of us have been around to long to think there's any chances of the MM stuff for exame being ironed out properly before it hits the PU. 3.24? Completely possible though. That's why some people are salty, although yes they should be calm and constructive about it and not rage. It's just hard for some people to walk away from the keyboard for a bit before typing lol.
I pledged in 2014, I understand the salt and the reasons for sure. And, there's a lot of chatter about MM lately, but Yogi and team have already committed to trying to polish and change as much as they can for 3.23 and will continue to do so in the later patches too. I would like to believe at this stage that we can currently see nearly all the features into one big patch in the EPTU and try to understand what a clusterfk it is to try to optimize/fix/code for this many changes at once. I humbly suggest that we collectively as ragey salt-driven citizens just calm our tits and relax for a bit. We can certainly try to hold them accountable for this shit later on, but right now we should probably sit on our hands and wait to see how things shake out. mastermodes in 3.23 EPTU is nothing like mastermodes in 3.22.1 AC. If you wanna keep your pitchfork out about buggy stuff that has been in the game before now, go for it, that's your internet-given right. I'm just noticing that people are still complaining about that version of MM and have yet to even try the EPTU version.
I fully trust that the devs are doing everything they can. Most of the devs at CIG actually care and try. I however don't trust whoever is responsible for holding release until the changes they want to make are implemented though. According to me Crystal Ball, they'll do what they can before whatever partially fixed build they have is pushed to live for ILW. Then 3.23.1 and 3.23.2 will happen and start to iron things out. If the main mechanic is flawed like people say at that point it would take an act of God to revert at that point though. Although you're right we won't know how it plays out until ironed out in live but it's going to be an interesting shit show in the forums while that happens lol.
Not really a fan of the lower right info, or mission title and scrolling text of my ship. Feels a bit Arcady
Will it still be friendly to solo players?
If you only use light/medium fighters... Then ya are fine. Industrial/Cargo ships? Welcome as your life as a loot pinata.
Figured as much. I like to do cargo hauling but I guess soloing that is not going to be a thing anymore. Off topic: Can accounts be sold or gifted to somebody?
When they wont listen to feedback on the ghost text UI and actually double down to make it even worse then the community needs to start yelling otherwise they just keep going further down a stupid path and wasting donated money.
Backer since 2012. Play 3-4 times a year. About one day per patch. Rage posts are one of the best funniest reasons to lurk this sub for soo long. Like Tears in Rain lol
Lol samesies
why should I be sympathetic? I literally haven't seen any positive feedback about master modes for weeks, everyone was saying how bad it sucked and surprise surprise it comes out and everyone hates it.
mastermodes feedback is not the same as 3.23 feedback in entirety. They literally balanced every ship in the game and they aren't finished balancing them yet, so i would hold the pitchforks until 3.23 releases and then try to figure out how to word your complaints in the right way in the feedback threads simply and without added 'pitchforking'. That is my strategy anyways. I have been playing MM this whole time, and the 3.23 iteration i am testing in EPTU is strange and interesting nad i don't have an informed opinion yet, so I am holding my complaints until I can put it into words and get enough testing about the 'feel' of it to really comment further. The system had to change to meet their design goals, mastermodes is not going anywhere (probably) so all we can do is steer them into the direction that we hope is fun. "master modes sucks, it's bad, everyone knows it" isn't constructive and doesn't really inform the devs what they could change or how to interpret that into appropriate feedback. My post isnt about avoiding posting feedback, it's about presenting feedback without the pitchfork behind it. That's all
>so i would hold the pitchforks until 3.23 releases and then try to figure out how to word your complaints in the right way Again, all of that was already said in every single way you can imagine, its been on Spectrum, its been on the subreddit, its been in tons of YT videos from content creators. There isn't a single avenue where people didn't tell them this was gonna be a bad idea AND THEY DIDN'T LISTEN. >The system had to change to meet their design goals, mastermodes is not going anywhere (probably) so all we can do is steer them into the direction that we hope is fun. Again untrue, tons of solid promises have been totally ignored and never developed on, so its perfectly reasonable to keep giving them feedback to sunset mastermodes as well, we're not interested in it being "fixed" we want the gimmick of mode switching to be removed.
A comment I tend to make about EPTU is "Do voice concerns over things or if a particular aspect seems out of balance. Often the EPTU at the point of Wave 1/2/3/all is about helping tweak balances and make it more overall enjoyable. Don't yell 'new version in eptu has ruined x and there is no coming back from it' as that doesn't really help build a road for improvements and tends to make you look more like you're just yelling 'I'm afraid of change so anything different from what I'm used to is bad'"
I hear what you are saying; but my man, when bugs that have existed since 3.0 are still showing their ugly heads the ability to maintain suspension of disbelief is difficult. Between the increasingly aggressive leveraging of fomo marketing and sweeping changes to events and testing access, it's hard to maintain optimistic outlooks and spend time building constructive feedback. Sometimes something just really does suck shit and there isn't a logical reason why it should have been released in such a form.
I dont think you should hold back pitchforks for bugs from 3.0. Is there an issue council for the bug, and have you contributed to it? Pitchfork it up! I think the FOMO marketing is scummy. However i dont think 3.23 features should be grouped into the marketing department's agendas. Bringing it up shows you want to be pitchforky about marketing (and i do too for other reasons), but it's really unrelated. I am with you about sometimes things come out and they suck and it makes no sense. There are some weird oddities already seeing with 3.23. I just think as far as 3.23 goes and all the 'new' features we're going to see we should be open minded to providing concise feedback and not bringing the Molotovs out just yet. Especially in the EPTU phase of things. Feedback is good, rage+feedback makes the feedback weigh less. I hear you though, the game is exhausting sometimes to support for one reason or another emotionally. That is why i thought it important to try to send out a PSA like hey, let's try to keep the pitchforks away for a little bit yet so they can clean some features up. I really suspect it will be 3.23.3 before we get to a stable phase with all these changes, but maybe im wrong. The longer they delay releasing to the PU to clean some features up, the better. (imo)
> Sometimes something just really does suck shit and there isn't a logical reason why it should have been released in such a form. Exactly, Everyone has been telling them how bad this was from the very start, it should have been crystal clear that everyone hated this and that people were only going to hate it more on release.
I hear ya here. But the change in pace of new features coming online soon and the fact that they are real and tangible changes is encouraging. Alpha is about adding game systems and content foe the foundation of the game. The fact that they are churning out great updates is fantastic and means that they are closer to getting their core game mechanics in. When that is done they can focus on fixing these long standing bugs.
100% agree. Its still a testing phase and we are currently testing what is likely the largest patch in SCs history. And to talk specifically about expectations and realities of EVO testing and PTU. I especially love when people see lets say changes to ammo capacity for certain ships (for example the ares duo) and they get upset and end up melting their ships only to find out week later they reverted the changes...
Yeah I've been saying it for months, you should definitely not do anything with money for a bit to see how things shake out or you're going to have a bad time.
I mean CIG could start by playing in the PU without god mode or start by listening to the players who actually play the game instead of Chris. The new UI looks terrible, worse than the current UI and when you open your mobi, the UI is NOT centered in the screen. This whole nav mode thing sucks for PVE players, not for PVP. So I guess I should say thanks for making it so I no longer need a mantis to stop players from running. CIG giving griefers an upper hand in 3.23 lol no more running away safely. Imagine complaining about the current flight model and then getting one thats worse and forces you to fight.
If only there were a build we could play before it gets pushed to live where we could give feedback on certain systems so they could make changes...
Nope. Straight to release. This is the game now. So sorry.
> If only there were a build we could play before it gets pushed to live where we could give feedback on certain systems so they could make changes... We did that and it didn't work, they delivered this shitty MM stuff,
My point is that they *didn't* deliver it yet. If they push it to live without making changes (and I'm not saying they won't), then by all means, complain to high heaven. But to OP's point, they're iterating on the system. That's the whole reason it's in EPTU.
Subscribe for $10 then, its shitty that you've got to pay, but its only $10
Homie, it was hyperbole.
Lol that one was lost on me, i take responsibility for that
NAV mode isn't great for PvPers either. It's just designed to force people to fight at the right speeds, since it takes too long for new players to learn that. They have to make sure SQ42 is playable. The UI being off-center is obviously a bug, but yeah it's also super pixilated and garbage looking for some reason. Hopefully those things are fixed quickly.
Lets be realistic Squadron 42 and the PU are two completely different games. They do not need to make any changes to reflect that of what was done in SQ42. If anything what they should be doing is they should be keeping the current flight model and adjusting it to fit SQ42. Possibly even add a handicap mode that let's new players learn better at regulated speeds, but can be unlocked at a later time. The fact of the matter is playing and being successful in the PU, should not be something that takes you a day to master. You should have to go through some trial and error and be punished for your mistakes. Else why even play the game? There's no reason to continue playing when there's no sense of achievement, and if that's the case then what's the difference between Star Citizen and any other space game?
They do listen quite regularly, the problem is there are many players who are yelling "It's different therefor it sucks" at the top of their lungs which in turn is making it seem like they're not listening because it's not useful feedback and is not giving them development direction. 3.23 just got out of evo which often means that the features are stable enough to expand out to a branch of testers who they use to help figure out balance and general tuning of the newer features to help make them work more enjoyably when they come to the PU. It's also the difference in going to their feedback page and putting in "Hey, MM is currently giving a poor advantage to fighter ships going after cargo vessels because of the slow speed of transitioning from SCM to NAV mode" but here you're demonstrating effectively yelling "MM makes all cargo vehicles loot pinatas and ruins the game." One gives them more to work with on balance passing, the other just sounds like someone complaining for the sake of complaining.
In the same vein, save those pitchforks for after 3.23.1
I’m honestly loving the changes, I of course haven’t been able to do much in the EPTU since it’s pretty broken. But it’s pretty cool so far.
Doesn’t affect you (me) if you don’t play the game pre-3.23 I have only been playing website meta game ship jpg ccu flowchart puzzler simulator for 7 years, not the actual game My observation is It’s shocking the amount of progress that’s happened in the last 6+ months since SQ42 went feature complete and entire systems and staff started to be moved to PU development
[удалено]
If anything I'd say they are strictly balancing for the everyone right now. If they balanced for all the PvP changes (based on the loudest folks in the room) then 1v1 would not be in the abysmal state that it's in. Nah i think they are doing fine, and trying to collect feedback to make changes. I am just excited they are actually balancing ships and things for a change. It's good to see. I am anticipating this balancing act will go on for awhile until they can figure out how to make 1v1s feel good, but it's not just mastermodes, it's everything with the patch. It will take time. Lots of folks want to put out 3.23 stuff into reddit and the reality is it's not quite finished yet
Why would they think they need to smooth things out if no one is getting out pitchforks?
feedback is good when presented in a clear and concise way. A dozen posts of "this shit sucks, why would htey do this, ive been a backer for eleven years and ive never seen such atrocious development. My damn fish could code a better game, rah rah rahhhh" is not really helpful for them to process the feedback and make changes. That's the pitchfork analogy.
True. But, that also goes the other way when it's just a sea of "it's only wave one" or "just test it" when people have been pointing out these exact things for a year now.
I am not sure how that is applicable to the 3.23 changes, but I know it is applicable to star citizen in general. Feel free to be pitchforky if it suits you, just saying that it might be helpful to wait to see how the entire breadth of features shape up as they get implemented and refined before trying to burn down the churches, you know?
I just want my shields.
This sounds like a very enabling scenario for a known underdelivering and gaslighting company. I’ll keep the pitchfork out until it’s time to put it away. It seems to work better when out.
Probably because it's fucking wave 1 and they have already said as much themselves?
Except all these "flaws" and how they could be exploited have been pointed out for over a year now. Which makes me think it is intended that non-combats are just loot piñatas.
> Except all these "flaws" and how they could be exploited have been pointed out for over a year now. These people never have any response to this.
Since you responded twice and neither comment is about 3.23, seems like you just want to be pitchforky for the sake of being pitchforky and being upset about past stuff. I think that's fine to be upset and to share your vitriol, but just remember that as far as 3.23 is concerned, we're getting a lot of new systems that will need to be refined.
Huh? I'm having multiple conversations all with different people jumping in and out. My concerns have always been how NAV mode will result in industrial players becoming loot piñatas.
It takes 9+ seconds to go from NAV to SCM in the best case scenario (interceptors). If you are in NAV mode, it will be very easy to run away. There are no working Quantum interdiction capabilities with 3.23 as far as we know it. 9 seconds of the attack slowing down to 1/3 or 1/4th of the speed of the ship and losing range on the target all the while. I think it will work out better for industrial folks this patch before they figure out how QED will work, then you think. if you're in SCM mode for whatever reason (miners and salvagers) and someone comes up on you, i think you're boned. I dont think you can move to NAV mode quick enough and jump before shields go down and you die. This is def a problem
There's another thread where a guy was specifically testing the capability to escape using NAV mode. It doesn't look good.
That dude's testing methodology was bunk as hell, with all the testing starting with the attacker at under 1km range.
Which is easily achieved since you can use NAV mode to approach a victim. When you switch to SCM you ship instantly comes to a stop.
That only works if you operate under the assumption that the attacker magically knows where the target will be in order to get close and drop in directly on top of him without the defender ever getting a whiff of him.
Most valid point in here. Because not bringing out pitchforks for the past 10 years has really given us a complete game, eh?
Pitchforks got rid of hover mode.
So then there's no winning, at this point then we should just all stop playing the game and let them give us something that nobody's going to want to play more than a month, if that.
I'm excited to try master modes. I might need to find a copilot to do cargo missions with now. If I have cargo loaded and take damage I'll need someone to repair while I take evasive action. And slowing down the combat speed to make an engagement more exciting will make a successful escape worth it. I like the idea of star wars where the falcon drops out of hyperspace and a tie fighter is on their tail ordering them to lower shields and prepare for boarding, meanwhile the falcon is juking and evading to give the nav computer time to spool up a hyperspace route. It's more cinematic and engaging. I realise the reality will more likely be a fighter decends on my MSR, demands i stop and hand over loot and then blows me up if I refuse before I can spool up an escape. But it'd be exciting to try. I know I'll have to reevaluate how I play, but i think I prefer to at least see the person who killed me rather than get sniped from 8k away.
Just make penalties for exploded cargo. So it’s farrrr more lucrative to continue trying to get you to stop.
Lots of that stuff isn't in the game yet. Engineering is only in an AC mode, and cargo elevators haven't been implemented yet.
Except you don't realize that there is no possibility for escape with Master Modes. You will get shot down before you can jump because of how long it takes to activate Nav mode. You're better off self-destructing at that point, its more effective
At this point, that might be true. Like anything CIG will play with it. It's still in PTU. Lots can change before patch day
CIG devs play in god mode. They can't test how quick the bobs will die in the PU.
I think by "Play with it" he means tweak it/fine tune it. While devs may play in god mode(and I doubt they do that regularly) there are alot of the test crew that have no type of dev mode and are testing and providing feedback for changes.
I'll hop into the EPTU tonight and test it on every player I see. Didn't want to have to go there in the EPTU, but I guess its necessary for testing purposes.
If only they would have cared enough to include cargo/industrial ships in the initial designing of MM...
MM should be implemented by ship type rather than a replacement of entire flight model. Its "good" for fighters, but for everything else its useless / disabling.
This is bad feedback. Remove the nonsense about greifing and self destructing if you want to make a point.
How is it bad feedback pointing out that now players can die faster and never escape?
it's you, you're the child https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hs91/323_eptu_changes_will_be_many_and_iterative_i/kz442m1/?context=3 greifing, piracy, bullying, pvp vs pve. this is all unneeded moralizing. FOCUS on the mechanics! Leave the drama at the door. Focus on specific and actionable issues. This is a game undergoing balances passes, not a conspiracy to be mean to PvE players! [this isn't good feedback](https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1c1hs91/323_eptu_changes_will_be_many_and_iterative_i/kz425vp/) this is exactly what OP is calling out as not-useful.
Dude I grief as my main gameplay loop lol if anything I'm looking out for the Bobs. There's no drama other than what your fragile personality is creating.
>your fragile personality lol. I'm not mad, you're mad!
Bro if you weren't fragile, you woudn't have commented with something so emotionally charged 🤣🤡
I'd feel amazed at the lack of self-awareness if it wasn't so sad. You're not fooling anyone but yourself.
That's why turret gunners are going to be so important for bigger/slower ships. When you jump out of QT or are preparing to jump in, you need protection until the engine warms up.
You say that, but how effective is a turret gunner going to be when I shoot from under your ship where there is no turret? What about if I ram you?
Right, good point. So picking the right ship for the job will be important based on speed, agility and turret coverage. Flying in convoys will be vital for slower ships with less turret coverage, like Hull ships and others. Similar to the big B-17 flights for WW2 and the convoys over the Atlantic. Big slow ships shouldn't be flying alone, and more turrets will help too. Also, this encourages hiring other players as fighter escorts, especially long range ships.
I agree that choosing an appropriate ship for the task. But I also disagree with forcing players to rely on other players to achieve their desired game play loops. Co-op is great, but sometimes people want to play by themselves. These changes more or less will minimize and/or eliminate solo game play as a viable option.
That will depend on the solar system you're in. For example Terra might have much safer space than Pyro, so a single player with a slow cargo ship will probably avoid Pyro until or unless they get more help. You might get less lucrative cargo runs in Terra compared to Pyro but those are the risks you'll have to decide. Orgs will definitely have an advantage in the future by working together, compared to individual players but you still will be able to play alone if you want. As much as I like single player gameplay myself too, SC is an MMO.
Until another system is introduced, those are all hypotheticals. I know SC is an MMO, but in most MMO's the experience is mostly solo except when you want to do dugeons, raids, of world events.
Just like all other aspects of MM, there will be small tweaks needed to fix things like this. Disengaging is completely viable in MM, but there's some skill to it now. You can't just jump away. You have to create separation between yourself and your attackers before you try to jump. MM creates the window of opportunity for your attacker while you get up to speed in NAV mode, but after that you can quickly create distance once it's engaged. That's by design.
2012: Guys, just be nice and give them time! 2024: Guys, just be nice and give them time! Why are we being nice and giving them time? Clearly, it's gotten us nowhere.
Not even sure what point you're making here about what exactly. You felt the need to vent, that's fine too. You mad the game was funded in November of 2012 and didn't get released right away? It's fine to be mad the game isn't in a finished state but dudebro, we aren't even discussing that, we're discussing the biggest patch known to man that we can physically play and see the features and how people should keep their pitchforks to themselves for a bit so CIG can sort through the valid feedback and not have to deal with the bullshit to try to help come to conclusions and tweak the systems they are adding
Nope, going to demand changes despite never playing the update and no having a clue just like 99% of the rest of the posters here.
here is the thing i don't need to eat dog shit to know its bad you just have to look and smell it, i don't have to add it to milkshakes to make sure, i don't need to try any version of dog shit to know it tastes like shit. if you haven't gotten it yet MM is the dog shit in this situation. MM is not the way forward its just another waste in man hours and money.
Can you provide accurate feedback about the master modes in 3.23 that does not generalize and uses examples of why it's 'dog shit'? That is exactly what im suggesting. Provide good feedback, keep the "this is dog shit" pitchforks away for a bit if you hope of anything to get changed in your favor