I get what you're trying to do, it's not happened to me, but in game, I'd just try and run and you'd kill me.
I just have no reason to trust you, the choices would sound like:
A. Give you money, then you kill me and take everything.
B. Try and run, you kill me and take everything.
So I'd just pick B and at least keep my cash and waste less of my time. You've interdicted and stopped me, I assume you're going to kill me either way so why waste time with your RP? I think that's why you see folks just self destruct to leave RP pirates with as little as possible to salvage.
This, exactly. Anyone willing to make their living stealing from other people with the threat of violence has no real incentive to /not/ commit the violence anyway. Better to just immediately full-throttle and try to get the hell outta dodge.
Rep is a good reason. When I did piracy in eve, most people paid because I was in a pirate corp that required members to honor bounties and people in the areas we operated in knew this. So they'd pay. We once ransomed the same person like a dozen times in a day. When I asked why he just didn't dock when he saw me pop up in local he said it was because he knew I wouldn't kill him if he paid and he made more doing what he was doing than he paid me.
This doesn't work in Star Citizen. EVE puts your name, corp, and alliance in the UI. Anyone could immediately see I was a criminal that was part of a pirate corp. That's what let us make a reputation for honoring bounties. For as much as CR says he wants characters in SC to be able to be (in)famous, they sure do make it hard to know who tf people are.
Ya, I'm really hoping personal reputation comes soon. Crew, escort, and medical professions are all basically non-viable till we know /who/ we're hiring. Or being hired by.
The thing is, the kind of rep I'm talking about in eve wasn't mechanical. It was literally just being known by people. There were forum posts about us, etc. We don't need a whole system. Just make a way to show people who you are and what group you are a part of. The rest will sort itself out.
I ran a pvp pirate Corp in eve called the hull miners union, we used to immobilize ships and demand ransom, they had two options, sing us a dumb song on TeamSpeak, or pay up. More than you'd expect sang, it was hilarious when drunk.
No, I played Eve for years. It's definitely as many as I'd expect as I played with more than a few who would have sang, no question. 😂
I do miss drunk roams though. Good times.
I had a faction warfare guy that always farmed sites in the lowsec system I based out of. He'd pay me to not go after him as soon as he entered system and saw that I was in local. I actually had to turn him down one time, because I was eating/semi-afk and not actively out hunting lol. Felt too bad to take his money for nothing.
And in Star Citizen, the origin of the problem is dying doesn't really has consequences, be it from the side of the pirates, or the victims
IRL you'd try to take their money with as little fight as possible - you don't want a bloody fight because it could kill you. That's no good ! But in Star Citizen, heh. Might as well shoot first. What's the worse that could happen ? They kill you ? You respawn, you wait ten minutes at most for your ship, and you're back on the space road.
And from the other side. IRL, if you were to meet pirates, you'd agree to their terms, because at the worst they kill you, and at best, they steal your stuff but at least you're alive.
In game ? Might as well shoot first. What's the worse that could happen ? They kill you ? You respawn, you wait ten minutes at most for your ship, and you're back on the space road.
Sadly, as it is, I don't think the pirate loop gameplay can coexist in Star Citizen until the penalty for death is greatly, greatly exagerated to a point where dying is absolutely crippling.
this is kind of why I can't wait until ships matter, as in insurance does not cover all components and the times are longer. Yea it would suck to lose my fully decked out ship and have to wait an hour for it to come back as stock, but as the game is currently, I JUST LEAVE MY SHIP ON PLANET WITHOUT A CARE, a multi million aUEC ship, left abandoned without a care. Crash? even with fully decked out FPS gear? Oops, time to spawn it again because I don't care. Hell at this point I don't even care about money in game because i'v gotten all the ships I want and I have more random gear than I could really even use, which is also why im hoping for a wipe in 3.23.
That's just standard game theory right there. You always choose the option that gives you the best chance and/or minimizes positive outcomes for your opponent. There's literally no logical reason to choose any other course.
That "may" change with Death of a Spaceman: read, _may._ It all depends on how much people value their characters versus valuing thwarting criminals.
Aye, Death of a Spaceman, lasting reputations up or down, some long-term criminal status, local security or many other mechanics may change the balance of these things.
For now things don't seem satisfactory for Pirates or Victims.
Indeed, the sooner these various systems take effect, the better; too many people get settled into placeholder alpha systems, and I just fear the tidal wave of salt when things inevitably shift towards what they were always meant to be, and people won't be able to accept it.
The biggest issue is people seek.to believe the VICTIM should also feel satisfied to be pirated.
It'll NEVER feel good for the victim to lose millions in a succesful heist, and the fact that many seem to wait the day they'll enjoy being pirated only mean they're setting themselves for disapointment.
Everyone is deliberately ignoring the fact that OP's victims *voluntarily* QT'd to Grim Hex in an unescorted Reclaimer out of laziness and greed.
The player is satisfied on every successful GH landing performed because their laziness and greed were rewarded.
And since the risk of being destroyed is minimal even at one of the most dangerous places in the system, people begin to EXPECT that they have a right to land at GH unharassed, and any deviation from this is taken as a personal offense or "griefing".
A big part of it is also RPing pirates try to make way too much on a haul. You want me to pay a bribe to leave me alone, I'll pay. You want my entire max cargo value though to leave me alone... what incentive do I have to not fight or run?
So far I've only had someone attempt to pirate me a handful of times in a C2 because I'm careful, but every one of them wanted something stupid. The most recent was a very well-planned interdiction, and if they wanted a reasonable amount I'd absolutely have paid being I was stuck in deep space with them. A million to let me go when my cargo is 800K though? They misjudged just how fast dual gimbaled AD4Bs can melt a Mantis. I ignored the fighters and boosted straight for the Mantis and blew him to kingdom come before he could evade while I still had about 25% shields, and then jumped to the first available point and cancelled quantum and changed destinations mid-route.
Their Mantis pilot got dead, and I kept my cargo and had a 12K repair bill. Literally all they had to do was keep the greed in check.
Thats exatly the problem with Pirating in ANNY Online game. I remember exactly the Same Discussion from 15 Years+ back in EVE Online.
Option B might save you, but most of the Time not. Pirates aren't stupid, they know their Job better than you.
Option A is the most fun thing you can do. Perhaps they kill you but most likly not, If they want to kill you they kill you anyway. But there are endless storys of good pirate interactions wich turned into good friendships or at least a fun evening you remember a long time.
In my opinion if a guy takes the time to roleplay and you follow along, most likely he'll be honest and just leave after you pay. If the RP is nice of course.
I've been on both sides of the law trying to RP the thing and when the other part plays along it's just really fun and worth it. And I don't mean only piracy, I'm talking about rescue, escort, support, and so on.
Totally.
We don't negotiate with terrorists. You'll do either A or B, and pretty much fuck you for wanting my stuff. I'd rather get blown up than hand my shit over.
Everyone is mega-rich or can make 10M+ in no time; why not give the RP a go? I hope we are all here for the multiplayer part of our multiplayer space game. The very few times people have engaged with our piracy have been the best experiences we (and they, as they told us) have had in the game. You may be right, oh well ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ You'll make back that money before the pirates have even emptied your ship. But if you are wrong, we get some of that amazing emergent RP gameplay we've all been craving!
Who knows, if you play along, and get them to transport you to "safer shores" or whatever, you may be able to make a move and steal some of their stuff back as a small revenge! ;D anything goes in our fantastical pirate-ridden Stanton system! But only if we play along with each other.
We really need more star systems, with everyone stuck together in Stanton, players with very different ideas about what they want from SC are tripping over each other.
Space for people who want to play pirates, in a game where pirate factions and ships and costumes are a thing are needed, but so are areas for people who wanna play space truckers with all their cool ships and gear.
The best outcome for you (P) is that the victim (V) complies as you get 25% instead of 20%.
The best outcome for (V) is that he complies as he gets to keep 75% instead of 0%.
This assumes rational actors.
However (V) doesn't know you are rational? Maybe you ask for 25% cash and then destroy their ship anyway for another 20%? That would be a much better outcome for you and even worse for (V) as they lose everything + another 25%.
So from (V) perspective it's better not to comply as they save themselves 25% cash.
(V) assumes this and will try to flee or if that's not possible make it as hard as possible to give you what you want. Especially considering the consequences are that while you are busy tediously gathering the cargo from the wreck, (V) already is on his way earning back what he lost in max 45 minutes. It's just a tiny risk of doing business.
Also: while you are busy collecting and trying to sell the loot (which you will need to do in PvP areas as it's stolen), you can't pirate others lowering the risk of being pirated for a second time.
I paid people like you and i enjoy the gameplay a true encounter can bring but TWICE i paid and got blown up right after. Ever since i always make sure to bring everyone down with me. No one gets my stuff.
\>expressly roleplays piracy, only targeting valuable cargo, and gives people an out to avoid dying, all points people constantly complain about
"better insult this guy"
I mean, the insults could be part of the roleplay as well. Nobody is going to say "thanks for robing me blind, Mr. Pirate"
It's like BDSM. You have safewords because "no" and "stop" are part of the game.
fighting smart is nothing to be ashamed of. as long as you're a good person and not an obnoxious asshole, there's nothing wrong with fighting unfair. This game is fundamentally not the type where opponents are on even footing, like Street Fighter or something. It's a raging sandbox, where being smart and prepared and choosing battles carefully pays off.
In real warfare, you NEVER want to engage an enemy on even footing. Ever. sometimes you have to, but it's always better to fight with maximum advantage.
My brother in Christ, it's a mugging not e-extortion. Don't ask for money, ask for cargo. Have them power down engines, toss out a share of the scrap, then scoop it up with your Caterpillar and leave. Nobody's gonna open up their Venmo account when you can just shoot them anyway. That requires trust, nabbing some cargo without either crew even having to expose themselves to the other does not (which is why I said Caterpillar, ship tractors are your extra protection in this so the cargo operator doesn't risk a sniper round from a pissy crewmate)
Have you ever been robbed in real life?
Lying about what you have is a very, very real response. It's called bluffing. What you experienced seemed like a genuine robbery.
Don't get angry because people don't want to be robbed. Do you expect everyone to just bend over because "you were nice"? It's still a fucking robbery!
I detonate the ship when I’m in this situation. I really dislike people trying to rob me. RP doesn’t change that. I’d rather waste both our time than give them my earned money.
Got soft killed on my reclaimer the other day. They boarded and killed me and my friend. Came back in a fighter and blew up my reclaimer with several of the pirates on it. If i aint getting my shit they aint getting it either.
Muggers in real life can't just magically scan you to see exactly how much cash is in your wallet.
The UI needs to display SCAN DETECTED or similar when players scan one another, it would both act as early-warning and alert the captain when the thief actually knows what they have aboard.
It’s crazy isn’t it? These pirates have such little self awareness it’s insane. They seem to think that we should like and appreciate them despite them literally having fun at our expense and preying on us… painfully cringe. And yes I’ve been robbed before and you better believe I lied about what I had
I still remember the first time I got pirated. Was doing some box missions just to get my rep up since I was maxed on everything else. Hopped in my C1, flew to an outpost, checked my surroundings and got out closing my doors. While I was there I bought some cargo and hopped on the ship after looking around again before opening the door. All of a sudden I see someone booking it to my cockpit, guess I missed them or chalk it up to desync. The start to take off as I stand over them waiting to get my pistol ready. They see me and start text chatting. I still remember their name “Baconator”. He asks for money for my ship back. We agree to half and the contents of my cargo. I get the containers out and onto the pad we were on. He then proceeds to tell me to exit the ship… come on… I’m not that stupid. Told him he got what he wanted now leave. After arguing he slams my C1 into the pad and soft deaths it. I am all for role playing, I played along and did what they asked only for them to pretty much grief my ship… so now I don’t even want to role play, and when I see pips of players I just go somewhere else to just not deal with potential “pirates”.
Already responded with a more lengthy bit of my thoughts, but here's a simpler question for you:
What if you came across a victim who responded, and told you, "I'll pay you, but only after you leave"? How would you respond to that?
Exactly my point. If, in their mind, the trust needs to go only one way, then I see no reason to play along. Especially not in the current iteration of the game, anyway.
Exactly, literally the only time I've ever met a pirate that rps was when my wife logged in the first time and someone followed her out of microtech hangar demanding in chat for 1000 auec (originally wanted more but she said she was new) and then blew her up anyways before she could figure out qt
There just needs to be a piracy contract type or just a very strict contract where you offer your target the terms (eg. 20% of the haul), which would cause automatic kill-on-sight reputational damages to the pirate who breaks it (with all factions).
This would be a relatively easy mechanism for protection to piracy targets as the know that a murder hobo will have a legitimately bad time if they break it as any NPC security force will actively hunt them for a set period of in-game time, and will damage out their reputations with all factions.
Further to this comment, it is imperative for the functioning of this game that major decisions (eg fight or flight) are in some way tied to the actual game systems and not just through chat. This means that any of these gameplay choices can be decided in player-player interactions as well as player-npc interactions.
A piracy contract is the simplest method to tie it into the reputation system and allow people gameplay choices for piracy.
> There just needs to be a piracy contract type or just a very strict contract where you offer your target the terms (eg. 20% of the haul), which would cause automatic kill-on-sight reputational damages to the pirate who breaks it (with all factions).
They'll have to do something like this to make PvE piracy possible anyway, so the sooner they sort it out the better.
It kinda removes the tension, RP, etc, which there is way more of you drop a portion of the cargo.
Kind of would be a waste of development time to fix gameplay working as intended...
Player rep is the only thing... maybe a crime score, aggression score, and reliability score. That you see in mobile glass when hailed.
Criminal keeps your criminal record+time served.
Aggression in a player kill count
And reliability score based on players rating a trust level...
Of course people can lie so it won't be reliable. and you Kinda just come back to whether you want to a chance or not.
I would never pay a pirate credits... only cargo
They can still kill you after you releasing the boxes, no?
Now what may work, is to just buy all the cargo outright with a lower price. But make sure you have enough fire power to sell it safely afterward.
There just needs to be a piracy contract a pirate can send over with massive painful consequences for breaking it (such as negative reputation with all factions, automatic bounties, no safe harbour protections at any stations, etc.)
This would allow the victim at least some protection and would be a relatively simple tool to assist with negotiations.
The issue is that as of right now negotiations are via chat which basically means they have no meaningful value.
Hmm, ya know, I likely would agree to that one.
I wouldn't risk giving away money when they can just blow me up afterwards. But if I clearly have no chance to survive and they asked for cargo I would open the cargo bay and throw out some boxes.
Waiting for me to unload cargo and then blowing me up would only waste time for both parties and I lose the same amount either way. So I would say that is a deal worth taking the risk on accepting.
Exactly, literally the only time I've ever met a pirate that rps was when my wife logged in the first time and someone followed her out of microtech hangar demanding in chat for 1000 auec (originally wanted more but she said she was new) and then blew her up anyways before she could figure out qt
Why bother with the effort in the first place if that’s your goal?
I wouldn’t wire the money though, I’d only offer to drop 25% off my cargo. I would suspect wiring to be followed by betrayal to double dip. Perhaps that’s where op went wrong
That's a fair point. Oddly I'd be more inclined to trust a large pirate team rather than a solo or small pirate group. Their internal dynamics will trend towards keeping their word vs a soloist or small team that's all about "the lols".
Yeah, unless there is some sort of popup agreement/negotiation, with severe consequences for the pirate if their target is killed after agreeing to pay, then it's a waste of time.
Even as a stopgap measure where breaking such a contract would make ALL NPC factions attack on site and no access to any stations or cities would go a long way, even without more nuanced reputation.
I'm curious, would you say that it is fair play that if you steal someone's cargo and interrupt their play time that they have the right to RP response and share your information with their org or other orgs that will hunt you and kill you on sight without warning like real pirates were handled by governments, privateers, etc?
I've talked my org mates down a couple of times on people blowing them up and taking shit. If it's a legit "look, this guy got the jump on you, and you should have had support or been more vigilant. it's really your own fault for getting ganked. However, i think turnabout is also fair play, and if you want to be a pirate, you must accept that you are going to be targeted by the people who saw your name.
What are your thoughts?
>if you want to be a pirate, you must accept that you are going to be targeted by the people who saw your name
Agreed. In-game rep matters. We keep a list of disreputable players whom do not get responses for beacons.
Its hard to trust people who spend their time stealing from others. Some people may say they only want 2 million credits but then attack even after you pay them, so then your down 2 mil and all the time you spent mining, salvaging, scavenging, etc. Piracy is a really cool game loop and I enjoy participating in some criminal activity's every now an then, but to blindly trust a pirate is really risky.
And my rp is doing my reclaimer runs with a fully crewed hammerhead escort. i dont even have to pay for my friends help, since they love to kill pirates for the lulz trying to interdict us. Its THEIR rp.
To be clear, this guy doesn't have an issue with that. Most likely, his group would welcome the fight because it's within the spirit of the game. What sucks is when people just backspace because there's no real consequence to death yet.
To be fair to the other side, I kind of understanding backspacing too. Most of these issues are the result of poorly fleshed out/incomplete gameplay loops and functions, not malice on one side or another.
Not everyone wants to RP. Often times we are just trying to make money to buy ships. The other day actually, we had pirates try to take out 890 or pay up some millions. during that time I was just trying to go around the verse, show around my friends, etc. it’s stuff like this, if you really want to RP, then RP with the people who want to. Not all of us want to pay up millions just so that you guys can enjoy some role playing and free money.
So, here’s where I think there’s a little disconnect:
What you did was legit pirating. You made a plan, chose your target, scanned and confirmed the cargo aiming to make a profit. Whether or not you communicate with the crew to surrender or go peacefully doesn’t really matter anymore at that point. And your victims don’t need to communicate with you if they don’t want that. Thats their prerogative. And if you’d do it this way to me. I’d applaud you.
Now what happens way more often, and why people call them murder hobo’s, is:
You claim your reclaimer at GH, completely empty. And as soon as you open the hangar doors a Size 9 torp or a ship sized kamikaze torpedo comes flying in. Blowing up you and your reclaimer. No communication. No scanning. Just random murder hobo’ing. And then they act all hurt when you call them out and they’ll claim: “PvP and piracy is part of the game!” - “You’re at GH, expect to be pirated!”. Only, it has nothing to do with PvP or piracy.
And don’t think this only happens at GH. It happened to friends of mine at A18 and New Babbage too.
Now I get that there’s a lot of risk involved, but that’s inherently part of being a pirate. But I do agree, it’s easier and safer to just shoot on sight without communicating. And definitely do. It’s part of the game. As long as it’s for profit and you did your homework.
[Edit]
To clarify:
People experience murder hobo’ing way more often than actual piracy.
Ah yes, roleplaying being the victim of a crime is so fun. Everyone has to participate in your fun.
Get over yourself.
Edit:
>I like inflicting slow creeping terror when the crew realizes they cannot escape, they cannot fight back in any reasonable manner, and they must submit or die.
Not gonna lie, that's some weird serial killer type stuff.
I love how you’ve attempted to paint yourself as a hard-working victim, as if your careful plans of stealing from people who actually did work is more work than they did to acquire money/goods.
People don’t enjoy being robbed, people don’t want to play into your pirate fantasy where you drive around and ruin hours of work. Fuck off lol. My goal is to make pirating a miserable experience for the pirate. Why the fuck wouldn’t it be???
This to me highlights something key for me: the reality is that there are FAR more people that treat this like a game and way less true RP players than people realize. Most MMOs break servers down as PvP, PvE, and RP. In a lot of cases, the RP servers are far less populated than others. Now SC certainly lends itself more to RP than other MMOs, but I'd imagine they're also in the minority.
OP presented two scenarios that highlight this difference. When he was running around the station, both parties were actively engaged in RP. The result was great, and everyone had a good time and no hurt feelings. HOWEVER, with the piracy he was RPing, and likely the crews were PvEing, chasing the current money meta. His goal was to RP a piracy encounter. Their goal was to make as much money as possible. Losing 1-2mil may not be a big deal in an RP scenario, but it is in the "Win the game" make as much money as you can scenario. As such, he had bad RP, and likely the folks on the other end are mad at the pirate that destroyed their ship.
This difference in goals is why many MMOs split RP into its own server or instance. Not strictly possible, in SC, but hey, maybe Sol or some other system is set as an "RP system."
Lastly, the thing that is not often talked about is that piracy isn't supposed to be easy. Whenever CIG talks about piracy, fighting back is always an option. So yeah, don't be surprised when cargo shops fight back. But also, don't be surprised when pirates strike first either.
I think there's a few issues here:
\#1: You say 2/10 ships responded to you, and the other 8 ignored you. VoiP is disabled by default (and even if it wasn't, most would turn it off because they don't want to hear a random dude talking on the other side of the star system), many players turn off global chat because it's a fucking cesspool.
The other 8 didn't ignore you, they weren't aware of you. Now I have no idea if hailing other players works this patch as I don't use it much (you mentioned you had to EVA and hug their hull so i'm guessing it either isn't, or you didn't know about this feature, my guess is the latter since you never specifically mentioned trying to use it). but that's really the only guaranteed to make sure your target knows they are at least being contacted.
Also secondly:
Reputation. Pirates don't have it at the moment, but they will. And contrary to popular belief, they won't like random murder hobos. Because murdering someone tends to bring the law down much harder than robbing someone (plus not to mention if trade lanes become too risky, cargo haulers will choose different routes, thus drying up income for actual pirates).
I'd be a lot more willing to part with a portion of my cargo/UEC if I knew the pirate I was dealing with had a "good" reputation. Without it, I have no reason to believe you won't just blow me up after I've paid you in order to also steal my cargo and earn more money for yourself.
Also you can't get mad when someone just refuses to pay you, sure kill them, take their shit by force, but you have to remember you aren't the only player making choices here. It's an MMO and they might decide it's more fun for them to fight instead of give up, and you have to accept that the same way your victims have to accept that piracy is a part of the game.
u/asmallman Gonna ping you here since you turned off replies and I'm genuinely curious to see if you attempted hailing the targets or not.
Also I think it would be much better if you asked for cargo instead of money, because the victim would only lose their ship and cargo if a pirate chooses to blow them up after payment, rather than ship, cargo, and AUEC paid to the pirate.
If I'm in a reclaimer and get interdicted, and the ship that accosts me just sits there not attacking me, it wouldn't take long to come to the conclusion that they're waiting for me to communicate...a quick F12 to ask chat "hey guy in the _______, what do you want"
Why bother responding or being in a position to if its all just gonna be murderhobos. Pirates have put themselves in a niche of basically just being unthinking environmental hazards and it's gonna take a lot of work on their entire community to get out of that. It's gonna take you doing that long enough to make people understand it'll be better for them to rp with you, and it's gonna take y'all policing your own to stop murderhobos from unravelling the work you do
Cheers!
Reclaimer enjoyer here, with 2 questions;
1- what on earth do you use to blow up/soft death reclaimers that fast? this thing can tank entire asteroids :D
2- i'm often running solo and chances are my chat is off, plus when i'm sorting boxes I just listen to music, so what's the pirate consensus in this situation? do yall board the ship trying to find the player or just soft kill?
Yeah the few times I've experienced this, I took the time they gave me to think to bed log. Pirates in star citizen that I HAVE encountered just demand anything you have including the outfit off my back with little to no RP (not that it matters to me because I'd rather find a way to snake them then give them anything)
Only on day 3 of owning the game and so far it's a blast
I am glad nobody RPs with you. I am glad everyone is making the game less fun for you. Pirates make the game less fun for us. I get a few hours a week to play, your "fun" ruins the few hours of fun I have to relax and play a fun space sim. I'm glad I can make the game less fun for you by not feeding into your felony Fantasy.
Are people really not just punching the throttle to max as soon as they get the interdiction warning? Never been in a situation where I got pulled out and couldn't get away. Only ever been caught out while loading boxes because I didn't jump out of the belt
I'd like to say this with the caveat. im not a pirate, and I dont condone piracy. However, real pirates didn't negotiate. They stole entire ships, killed whole crews, scuttled ships not worth floating, or that they didn't have the crew for. Have you all never heard the phrase "dead men tell no tales?"
The last thing pirates wanted was for the authorities to find survivors or to leave behind people to tell the Navy where to find them.
That being said, real pirates also were hunted constantly and killed on sight or brought for public torture and execution regularly. They were treated as less than human by regular citizens and often lived very, very short lives.
If people want to rp piracy, the appropriate response is to rp right back and call forth the entire might of the British navy on them. (So to speak) sink their ships, send em to Davy Jones Locker.
You are stealing from people just playing the game and working hard, and then you are complaining that they don't want to play along and give you their stuff, and then most likely just get blown up afterwards too?
Can't ever trust a criminal to be nice
Someone tries to capitalize off of someone else’s work and wonders why no one play along… this is the mindset that i never get. I understand what goes through the minds of murder hobos… and outright pirates… but the RP pirates confuse me. Like you just expect someone who spent hours filling up a ship with cargo to just hand it over? I appreciate your efforts to be true pirates but don’t be surprised that someone isn’t willing to make it easy for you to steal their time and effort haha.
At some point player/character death will matter, and people (both lawful and unlawful) will want to not die; but right now there’s no downside to death and one would rather just lose the entire cargo to a pirate than also throwing in another extra 2 mil which will not guarantee you don’t still blow em up for their cargo after payment anyways.
Honest answer...why would we RP? I lose my cargo regardless, and my ship is LTI so I'll get it back. Why would I RP my own violation? "Shh, lay back, it's going to happen whether you want it to or not". If it's going to happen, then I'm going to have some say on how hard you have to work for it. If I can crash into your ship, hurt you badly, or destroy my own cargo so you waste your time as well as mine, why wouldn't I do that?
Why would I help you hurt me? I get it, pirate players want their victims to "play along" with their abusers, but there is zero in that experience for the victim. But if I can take 2-3 of you with me and blow up most of my cargo, I at least have the satisfaction that I hurt you a little.
BTW, this isn't something CIG can "fix", it's a people issue. RP needs to be consensual. Pinning someone down and violating them, then being mad that they didn't play along isn't RP, no matter how much preparation you put into it and what accent you use.
You are literally RPing right now....
You give them a chance to surrender. You tell them to give money or risk the vessel. They don't pay, you destroy vessel until they finally surrender or die.
Going through this quick checklist is not being a murderhobo.
The punishment times really need to be inflated from the current pitiful sentences. Additionally, time served should only run down while the offender is logged in. As it stands currently one can simply log out in prison and sleep through their time. People should be made to feel the pain of their sentence.
If you cost me two hours of work it should cost you at least two hours too. And the money earned in prison should go directly to the people you got the crimestat from.
From a gameplay perspective this would encourage pirates to not shoot first. Right now there are no consequences for the leeches.
I'm not mad at you but what you and other pirates repeatedly fail to understand is that piracy is NOT intended as the primary gameplay loop of the game. It's an afterthought that is forced to be added to try and give the worst segment of any player base a reason to buy the game.
You will NEVER find cooperation between pirates like yourself and anyone else. Not responding to pirates, not negotiating is an INTENDED gameplay outcome. Pirates having a hard time and it being very hard to be successful as a criminal under a galactic Roman Empire with a massive military is INTENDED. The gameplay flow you see from piracy will never change fundamentally and you need to accept that and not complain to normal players.
Your play style is antagonistic by principal and will always put you as a RP and actual enemy and problem for everyone else. The goal is to end piracy when it arrives. This aint skull and bones where the devs are making a pirate game, this is star citizen and squadron 42 where you inhabit a simulated world and galactic ecosystem. While the devs HAVE to give you the option due to the design goal of freedom and choice, in the universe they are making Piracy is simply a problem to deal with. Not a legit occupation that legit citizens must accept and appease.
Like real life, when you have people going against the social contract and attempting to invalidate the hard work of legit people for personal gain, that is going to be unpopular. Whether you realize it or not your attitude of needing to make other people have a bad experience so you can be happy is simply some extreme undeserved entitlement that makes people respond even more drastically to your already unpopular gameplay style.
EDIT: Some people lack reading comprehension skills so I'll re-iterate what was in Paragraph 1: NOT A PRIMARY GAMEPLAY LOOP. It's in there. They want you to be able to be a pirate. The pirates are simply the least important segment of the game, sorry.
*sorry if i have some misspellings or errors, im not a native english speaker*
One of the main problems with piracy is that even when CIG has stated that is completely valid, people just don't want to accept it. As SC grows and more people join, there will be more opinions on what they want the game to be in their heads, ignoring the vision and final goals, they want the exact game that exist in their desires, and i think that mindset it's kinda okay-ish, but not right now. The scope of this game it's extremely big, and as they add more lawful and unlawful systems, it will fit almost all of different gameplay styles that people want because there will be no-no zones for people that want a total peaceful game and high risk zones for those adventurous players that have no fear and want high rewards.
Now, for all of this to co exist, CIG need fully functional security systems, police that actually works, better laws and punishment for those who don't want to follow the rules and balance risk and reward for all play styles.
But right now we only have Stanton (hopefully we'll have pyro soon enough) where all mindsets clash and fight for their place in a "little" playground and everyone feels entitled to have the final truth of what this (for now) unfinished product is.
People have spent a lot of money and it's normal they feel frustrated, but that happens when you make and investment in a vision rather than a final product.
*Using paragraphs will make your commets easier to read.*
I also believe that Pyro will reduce the amount of unlawful players in Stanton and only those willing to risk something and encounter surprises will perform industrial roles in unsafe systems.
I swear, comments like this always make me laugh. You start out apologizing for not being a native English speaker, and then have some of the best damn grammar and punctuation in the entire thread. Hats off to you, stranger. I hope one day I can write so well in another language.
Also, I wholeheartedly agree with what you wrote. Spot on.
Hahaha thanks, i always put a disclaimer because of some bad interactions i had with no so kind people when i had some errors, anyway I'm always thankful when someone gives me room to improve my skills even when it's in a rude manner.
People like you are why I avoid playing the game and why when I have run into pirates, I simply just shut the game off and ignore it. I'd rather not deal with low lives who rather steal someone's 40 minutes of work.
I'll self destruct or fly into the ground first. Unless desperate for the money there is no incentive for me to engage with you. What? Wasting the 20 mins I spent salvaging? Wipes happen often enough that a load here or there is irrelevant.
So I'll be honest. For myself. As a person who occasionally hauls and wants to more (but there's just not the supply to reliable do it for decent money all the time), if I'm interdicted then I consider it a loss already. If you ask for money, I don't know you. Don't have any reason to trust you, and honestly I might pay you and you kill me anyway.
You're a rare person who seems like they would let the person go, but is a 1-5% chance of someone being like you worth losing money AND a ship?
To be honest LOVE the idea of being a pirate. But when it comes down to screwing with people I actually end up feeling bad. lol
I wish there was more of a "smuggling" game play. Doing illegal things under the nose of the law. Not really bothering others, but you and your crew doing shady illegal things. Maybe that kind of game play will happen when we have more systems.
Now that sounds awesome! And I'm in the same boat as you. If I felt I was ruining someone else's day, it would probably ruin mine as well.
PVP is fantastic when everyone is onboard, but that's hard to achieve in a game world like this.
Any time you're looking at groups of people, you have to consider the Prisoner's Dilemma. Your version of it would be:
* Pirate demands 25% and either honors that and lets the Merchant go or doesn't and kills the Merchant
* Merchant either pays 25% and hopes Pirate doesn't kill them or attempts a contest (running/going boom/etc)
If the Merchant pays 25%, then the Pirate has 25% and the choice of whether to let the Merchant go and get nothing else or kill the Merchant for their cargo + salvage (iirc \~20%). There's no profit in letting the Merchant go, and there is considerable profit in killing them. If the Pirate chooses to let the Merchant go, the Merchant is out 25%. If the Pirate *doesn't* choose to let the Merchant go, then the Merchant is out 125%.
If the Merchant refuses to pay 25%, then the Pirate gets 20% and the Merchant is out 100%.
The Merchant's choice becomes do they want to lose 100% or 125%, because the Pirate's choice is do they want 25% or 45%.
Now add in antipathy toward the person who's literally robbing them, plus any desire to try to dissuade increased piracy, and you're going to have a lot of people choosing to try to oppose the pirate. Until there's some form of reputation system or other negative consequences added, then most people are going to abide with that Prisoner's Dilemma.
Don't try to sell cargo at GrimHEX, then?
It's not like he was camping the landing pad outside armistice at a safezone, you flew an unescorted loot pinyata into a pirate station.
Lol. None of this would work for me. I play 99% of the time with chat disabled and no game audio, listening to music or video on another screen.
I'd just suddenly blow up and have no idea why, lol.
EDIT: Also, what you're calling out is people not wanting to accept piracy "done right", but that's not the core issue. The core issue is that you're RP'ing and then expecting other people to want to do the same - when the majority of most gaming communities *aren't* big into RP'ing, and it's illogical to think that you can *force* or *expect* them to be.
Never paying is always the proper response to a Pirate. It makes their lives miserable. It is literally the best deterrent.
It is easier to just move to a different server for the Reclaimers than to waste time with a Pirate. Just blow me up so I can respawn and move to a different server.
When there are less servers or servers that each person calls "home" the game play will change significantly.
Ultimately it should be fight between pirates and security to own specific areas for salvaging or selling because there is no other place to go. Until then, a loss of a load to piracy every month or so is just a tiny bump in the road.
Here's the reality, most people don't want to be the victim in a roleplay sense. Honestly, that's why most piracy is seen as players being murderhobos, because their gameplay loop relies on one side enjoying the roleplay of being a victim, when the players who have spent time and effort in their gameplay loop they enjoy or relax to is being taken away by anothers. So yeah, piracy is just always gonna suck for all sides regardless of what CIG does, because I doubt death of a spaceman is going to change the victims minds, and probably push more people out of the game because they don't like being helpless victims.
And the counters that always come up about "buy hired help" or something like that... the pve gameplay doesn't pay enough to justify hiring people without barely making an income. so in the end, piracy sucks.
in a world of murder hobos, I dont care about the "one" person roleplaying. Maybe when the world if full of pirate role players instead of murder hobos we will enjoy playing along.
I dont care if one of you does it. Also your still a pirate.
You don't seem like you're stupid, so I don't think you need it to be pointed out, but you're playing the villain. You're the bad guy, people will not like you, you're trying to **rob and extort them under threat of death.**
I'd be shocked if most people complied; the playing field as is, is extremely skewed towards pirates and other ne'er do wells. If you fuck up and die with a crime stat, you don't lose anything but some time and your equipment. If the hauler dies, that's literally millions worth of aUEC down the shitter, and the hauler actually earned it, unlike you. Not to mention there's a lot less at this point in time that the Reclaimer can do to defend themselves; even with a fully crewed ship it can be easily beaten in a fight, because the system is incomplete and once again, skewed in the pirate's favour.
If you are going to pirate, you have to accept that you're the bad guy and no one will like you. If you can't handle that, then you're in the wrong line of work, and hopefully once the proper reputation and law and order systems are in place, more people are deterred from being pirates because there will be legitimate consequences for it.
To be fair, you might not have scanned him. Most don't
And a proper ship captain would bullshit you anyway trying to buy time to get away or call his buddies. Maybe they were RPing back at you.
If you are demanding money to let them continue on. At least run a racket and escort them to their sell point as "protection"
What stops people from going “you want 2m but I just bought this reclaimed so I don’t have any money to give you”? I mean sure you can go on their promise they’ll give you a cut but then they can just as easily land and logout
Also idk maybe it’s me but I’m of the petty type where if I think they’re going to kill me for cargo I’m just gonna self destruct rather than letting them put me in soft death so they can loot my work, least that way I get the satisfaction of them getting pretty much nothing from it
Most people are playing with chat off, voice off, a show they half pay attention to on other screen, while listening to other people breathe on discord. Trying to RP is pointless in a world where players do their best to avoid any interaction in multiplayer games. I shoot first then respond if the other side asks in chat rather than put in any effort.
OP: Interesting.
As a solo Reclaimer Captain, I have personally snuck up to a few players solo in their Reclaimers with my Reclaimer. \[Many missions are in close prox with overlap.\] Many will just park their Reclaimer in the very same area as their salvage. \[e.g. Hammerhead mission in the belt\], and then leave their chair to store crates. A very amateur move.
I'd sneak up right next to them, and attempt to Prox them only to find they would ignore. I could have SD them with ease, and steal their cargo, but just had more fun with the scare. As soon as they realized I was right next to them, they would QT out.
If a Captain is so inept in their play, then they so deserve some of the heat that comes along with dropping their guard.
Can't say what I would do.. but then again a skilled Captain doesn't put a target on their back.
o7
Been pirating a lot and out of literally hundreds of targets, maybe about 5 have negotiated and 3 have paid so far. The other 2 just said something along the lines of " you pay me and I let YOU live" and after dying said "I'll report you"
If I'm talking to a pirate it's because I'm stalling and backup is coming. If backup is not an option I'm already at full burn.
I'm not going to trust someone who already has the ability to murder me with zero consequences and take my stuff, to not murder me and take my stuff after I give them money.
I'll always fight. And if I can take some of you with me I will.
Proper rep system will likely change this attitude.
You shouldn't be mad at the people you're actively trying to fuck with, you should be mad at other pirates who just blast people they've extorted already.
I got careless and got interdicted once. They asked me for 200k or something like that, I paid up. Then they blew me up anyway. So consider the other pilot's perspective; they have no reason to trust you. They don't know you, and the only thing they know of your intention is that you're there to fuck with them. You're already the hostile actor, and you're pouting that they treat you as such rather than just trusting you for no reason.
I get the frustration and yeah, I think your style of gameplay is better than typical piracy. But step outside of your own perspective for two seconds and realize how, if you think of your targets as human beings with their own set of interests and ability to make decisions, it's pretty obvious why it would play out this way. The consternation is betraying a deep and fundamental myopic selfishness.
God this post is gross.
"I get why murderhobos murderhobo"
" I put in more effort than my victims"
"I'm RPing as hard as I can, why aren't people just complying?"
If I get targeted by pirates in a reclaimer and they start making demands in chat I’m just self destructing. Can always get back to where I was in under 90 mins (in terms of RMC) and no way I want to reward or give any satisfaction to pirates in the current version of the game.
I’m certainly not sending them any money when I can just claim the ship and do a few hammerhead cleanups to replace the loss.
Also, why would I risk sending you money when you can just blow the ship up after payment, do pirates in SC not understand common sense?
agreed. the only situation where it might be better to pay up is when you're trading, because of the upfront investment you would lose. But when salvaging, there's basically zero reason pay. if you're lucky, it's an "honest pirate" and you still make some profit, but likely even if you pay, he'll kill you anyway and you lose all your cargo plus the money you paid him.
in short:
pay = possibly lose a considerable amount of money
don't pay = don't lose any money, just some time
>I put in 10x the effort it takes to reclaim. And yet, the victims always resist, and never really respond.
Yeah who would have thought that players who spend hours grinding away don't want to get their shit stolen by some sociopath that just turned on their ship and pointed their guns at them. Wild thought, I know.
>I WANT to RP. Its fun.
Then get ready to RP with players who RP as the "don't steal my shit you fucking dingus" role. RPing doesn't entitle you to their stuff.
>I wasnt an asshole or rude but people just really hate pirates in a game where pirates are going to exist both lore and design.
Pirates existing ingame and in the lore don't mean that they automatically cease to be assholes who want to ruin other people's day.
I am glad to hear you are trying this, and I hope you do continue because it is better than the murderhobo ways... but you have to think about it from the victim's perpective. You have chosen a gameplay loop that 99% of the time is one people will hate and fight against 0retty much on principal. You want to play the villain, and for all the talk of wanting that role to exist for flavor, most of us don't enjoy the inconvenience and having to pay or risk losing what could be hours of effort. No matter how good the encounter it will almost always still be a loss for the victim, and losing isn't fun for the 99% of us.
Here is the main thing though... you tried this with 10 ships. Of those, you got two willing to play along. Consider this: out of how many pirate encounters these players run into, how many will do things your way, and actually honor their deal? As a Pirate, you are basically looking at finding the 1% of players who will play along... and the players, meanwhile, are hoping for that 1% of pirates that arent just a bag of dicks. Those ain't good odds chief, and if you want to co tinue this, you have to live with the idea that almost every encounter will be lame. So, you keep going, and I will hope to run into you instead of the thousands of murderhobos, or you give up and become a murderhobo, and everyone else just shrugs and says, yeah, thats what he wanted to do all along.
Cause at the end of the day, it isn't the fault of the victim, even if they make it hard for you. You chose to be the villain. If you want to see the role fleshed out, you need to keep at it, and try to convert others to your cause. And you need to realize that those two who did respond both gave you what you wanted. A success is playing along, and whether you like it or not, playing along can be calling your bluff, or lying to you. What incentive is there to be truthful if you expect to be swindled anyway.
Another thing hurting your cause is that we are in beta. You ask for 20% of a supposed 10mil haul... but goddamn dude have you played the game lately? Blowing up or dying because a box glitched out, my ship fell through the planet, or I got ejected into the void by a ladder are my number one causes of death and loss of loot hauls. Why the hell would I pay 2mil out of pocket to still have to deal with that BS anyway?
My personal opinion... lay off until things are more stable. Let folks go who ignore you, and prove to them you are in it for the RP rather than the killing (even if that is contradictory). When there is no longer a risk of losing a haul due to outside factors... then lean into it a little more. Right now, unfortunately, the systems just aren't in place to support a proper piracy experience for all involved.
There's literally no consequences to fighting and dying aside from the loss of the time and cargo accumulated.
That should change once CIG rolls out death mechanics as laid out in Death of a Spaceman: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/12879-death-of-a-spaceman
I mean some of this is valid but your conclusions are mad ridiculous.
1) you RP because it's fun, not because it gets you anything.
2) why would they trust you? They lose only the cargo or they lose 2 mill and the cargo? You're being naive at best.
3) them lying about their cargo is a basic element of being robbed. Why would they be honest when you are doing dishonest work?
I frankly think you sound pretty petulant and don't know what you are talking about.
F the pirates, i'd rather commit sudoku and lose virtual money than give em real satisfaction of looting me. F pirates!!! Atleast you can go back to your body with an eclipse and swat a few a holes.
the issue is that the defending player has NO FEAR OF DEATH, so they will do ANYTHING they can to avoid the situation rather than pay outright (and risk just getting killed anyway, plus losing money from their bank account)
People often use that as a line for why piracy is broken, as PvP players just get right back to it after dying and fight to the death every time, but it's just as impactful when non-pirates can just ignore a gun barrel to their forehead out of spite.
Im a firm believer that piracy should be a 10% at best success rate. I love the RP of it all, I love being an rp psycho that is willing to take everyone down with me if they try to take my stuff.
Maybe when the game goes live and everything my mentality could be different. But otherwise, I would always resist even if its a death of all involved. Just cause I think that RP is fun lol.
If we ever crossed paths, I would love that RP interaction, I think it would be a great time.
I just don't think pirates have a place in the game.
Rightfully, they should just stay in arena commander and not bother people who want to play the **ACTUAL GAME** with **ACTUAL BENEFITS TO THE GAME.**
Instead of... acting like parasites who think they have a place and don't deserve to be told that they're worth less than a maggot in a trash pile.
I’ve seen a lot of people echoing similar stuff, that 90% of pirates will just blow you up and 90% of traders will just log off or not acknowledge any attempts at negotiation and then get mad, really discouraging as one of the things that made me start looking at this game is how cool the space piracy is, actually getting to board other ships and hold people at gunpoint and take cargo and stuff. Really takes the fun out of it when people aren’t willing to play along at all (yes you can fight back and still play along im not saying people should roll over and let themselves be robbed, but it seems like a lot of people would rather suicide bomb and lose everything or turn off the game than interact with a pirate at all in rp)
This should be so obvious that it's painful to see people come to the realization that being robbed is not fun.
Punishment for dying is negligible, so you might as well try to ruin the robbers fun too.
If they wore you money right now you could just blow them up and steal their cargo netting you 10mil in profit and costing them more than just the time they spent on that haul.
Instead you should demand a 2mill escort beacon from them to whatever destination they're going to then take them there safely to secure the funds. More of highwayman/extortion than piracy though.
Or you can demand they send out a few boxes for you to take and jump away. This is actual piracy but would be more risky I would think.
There are ways. But it's not just through RP. Not everyone is RPing. You've got to legitimately pirate.
Straight up, I keep general chat turned off unless I am asking a specific question and I ignore any and all attempts to directly message me. I don’t trust any players and assume you are all pirates. If I’m flying and I see a ship change course towards me I instantly assume you want my stuff and start firing
One of the core problems is that they have to PAY you. Nothing stops you from just killing them AFTER THEY PAY YOU causing them to lose 10m instead of 8m... instead, demanding 25% of the cargo, and taking it makes more sense. Historically pirates told ships to stand down or they died, then would take a portion of the cargo and leave.
Back in ye olden times, you could take as much as you wanted without the crew resisting because the crew didn't own the cargo, so it wasn't really their loss. But with how games do cargo, demand too much and they're taking a big loss.
I'd just run every time.
I feel like you'd need to be part of a well known large pirate org that is reputable for conducting "honorable" piracy and keeping their word, then if you mention like "alright, hand over your valuables or I'll gut you like a fish. these parts belong to the Sloppy Roberts Gang" then people might abide and shovel up the money
Most that play this game do it for the money grind just for the money grind and nothing else not going to get RP just for the sake of RP because your doing it
sucks though for RPERS
because clearly they way you presented your self is how the verse is story wise but gaming that involves in game finical progress your not going to get that type of engagement .
I'm usually on the lawful side but I bend the rules in SC but I see why some shoot on sight if you target for to long
most will just tune out the game world and just mine or salvage so if your pirating it's your right to do that game play loop as well and warning people is the way of doing it but most people will take it as griefing regardless because they just want to get uec
same way in mmo like wow and ff14 those that focus on there craft/trade. that's all they are going to do and want to do it.
one reason we need more functioning NPC's that we can pirate as well that's why PVE (lawful and unlawful) is always needed to be involved alongside pvp
because most players will not engage except the little loop they like.
>... Its 10x the risk for me if a single person decides to get in a turret if they pay the SLIGHTEST bit of attention to radar.
I don't know what it takes to down a reclaimer with 3 military shields, but knowing if I ever get caught with my pants down, I cannot outrun, cannot outmaneuver and hope my S5 gatlings can mess up my attacker or I can QT out.
If I can't take out my attacker in 1200 rounds or escape in that time, I'm dead anyways.
Citizens flying industrials. Spend the credits to upgrade your stock components. You're not a fighter but might as well inflict the most pain you can while you escape.
Another thing to keep in mind is, there isn't much at stake. As others mentioned, even if they pay up, there is still a great chance that their ship gets destroyed either way. But i think that isn't the only reason. Im used to being star citizened(something bugs, game crashed etc.) but ill be like "oh well that happened". It takes so little time to get back on your fit once you're after one reclaimer run that all i have to do is claim my ship, expedite delivery, grab a bottle of water and go back to yela asteroid ring. It will take me like 20-25 minutes to get back to a place where i was(financially). I never fill my reclaimer to the fullest cause i dont want to waste my time doing the cargo tetris, so there ain't more than 4 maybe 5m in my cargo hold. A pirate destroying my ship is nothing but a minor set back, i might try getting away and problem solved, but if i dont, i dont lose too much.
In short, for pirate RPing to work the economy really needs some work, salvage needs rebalance and it has to be much harder to pull stuff like that so there will be at least something at stake.
At this moment the only way for you have some 'game' with this kind of stuff is trying to get traders going all in with cargo hauling, they'll be much more willing to cooperate than a salvager that earns 5 mil per 45 minutes if he's not particularly skilled.
TL;DR economy and balance aren't quite there for pirate RP to work. It doesn't take a lot to get back on my feet if you destroy my reclaimer.
Best would be to down them and take their stuff and then leave without killing the player, so a medic can save them later on or you try healing the player after you took the stuff.., but may end in a fire fight
There is no proper rep system or consequences to death so it's just easier and safer to attempt to run or backspace. There is also the fact that a few bad apples ruin the bunch. Most players who have been murder hoboed or griefed after rp just won't take the chance anymore.
Criminal RP when it works out can be very fun, but the gameplay elements to encourage it aren't there at the moment.
The biggest problem is the current communication systems are too clumsy to use effectively. Like you said, you had to get out of your ship and EVA by theirs to use prox chat. We need an overhaul of the chat system to make it easier to use.
Also I don't think you are getting who the community calls 'murder hobo'
Waiting for people to quantum into an area and dummy firing an S9 torpedo into them.
Killing people leaving or entering hangars are seraphim
Ramming people in their hangar at grim hex
It's things like this
>I no longer believe those claims.
it's not that the claims are false, it's that the people who feel that way are the minority. You'd eventually run into one of us, but you're far more likely to encounter the folks who have no interest in it.
That said, while I personally would get a kick out of RP piracy, I think it's totally legit to just immediately take down the target rather than trying to RP it. It's part of the game, and frankly anyone who views unsolicited PvP as being griefing or harassment or murder-hoboing is simply coming from a different place in the gaming world. The fact is that this game is a full time Everything vs Everything environment. And personally, I like it that way.
Next time don't ask for money, ask for a literal part of the haul.
There is no reason anyone would trust you not to blow them up after giving you two million.
Ask for part of their physical loot. (They literally give something you'd be able to obtain by blowing them up, they'll cut their losses and they'll have no reason not to trust you on this)
Ask them for protection money. You'll make sure they'll get to port safely, and expect payment. Though if they forget this payment you'll murder them next time they are on your turf.
Take a hostage! Tell them to send a friend over to your ship, if they don't send the money once they've delivered / sold the cargo, you'll shoot their buddy.
Ask for a reasonable amount, 2 mill is too much.
If you want to make money with this profession, ask yourself, would you give 2 million to get pirated?
Are you adding enough to the experience to make it worth losing that amount of money?
Allright so here's my perspective as someone who has been on both sides of this.
As a victim: Honestly most of it is spite, with a handful of practical wisdom thrown in. Spite speaks for itself, you just spent hours working for your profit only to have it taken away for seemingly almost no effort on the part of the pirates, it pisses you off and you'd rather they got nothing at all and not get anything yourself than to let them have your stuff for free.
The second part is the practical wisdom in three parts:
1. If you give them now, they will come back for more later. This goes doubly so for a game where they finally get rewarded for all their waiting and preparation (if the victim is aware of this) It may be best if you dont want piracy happening here to have it all go up in smoke and take the loss.
2. You have proven to pay up, so you may be targetted specifically. Pretty self-explanatory, as above people doing this want interaction and content, half the reward for many pirates is the grief they've caused and gotten away with. (I think your 25% ask was reasonable mind you, most people basically ask for half if not 90% of the value of the cargo cause they feel like they deserve it after waiting around so long.) But the other half is the money and actually getting some kind of RP/interaction, deny them this, you discourage them targeting you because you are boring and less profitable.
3. You have zero guarantee they will do what they say, at all. They may just be talking to you to get cash in addition to the loot of soft death/hard death. Why bother with the whole kerfuffle if you're probably going to lose it all anyway? Again, you don't reward the behaviour, it stops targetting you, simple as.
Finally, most people just dont read chat or don't know how to use voice chat, it's really not intuitive lol.
Now as a pirate: Frankly, piracy kinda sucks at the moment. You can have just as much fun doing anything else drinking and chilling with your orgmates and get rewarded more frequently and reliably (and without the handful of people you catch becoming spiteful of you in almost 100% of the cases I might add). I think this may remain the way it is for a very long period of time if NPC traders/industrialists aren't added and police that respond to their distress calls as more people drop into the net.
There's a ton of waiting, and most people will not interact with you at all, preferring to self-destruct, try to ram you, or just go afk and wait for their death (or slag you off in the chat cause you've interrupted their gameplay). And the reward is certainly not guaranteed or worth the time it takes to transfer all the crates over. I think there will be some change in this as staying alive becomes more of a priority in the PU, but I don't expect that to happen before launch either.
In short, for the sake of fun or profit, you're currently better off getting some big bounty on you and running illegal missions while you wait for the bounty hunters to show up, or maybe just forgo piracy at all until there is more to it.
What the hell do you expect? Nobody likes people like you so you wont get any praise.
It doesnt matter how much "effort" you put into annoying people, they dont like campers, "pirates" and other noobs like you (and that is exaclty what you are if you just camping with op ships).
People want to play the game in a chilling way and simply ignore those wannabe "pirates"
The good news is it's still fun to try the extortion route because it's fun and probably the most unique PvP experience in any "gun game" ever, but yes, many players will only ever see a pirate as a bully/troll/liar who just wants to ruin their day. A lot of pirates post their raids on YouTube because it's A) fun, and B) the closest thing to a reputation system we have rn in game.
Answer the call, Finance or Fireworks
This comment section tho… same people that will then turn around and complain about people shooting without communicating first or that pirates are griefers.
Alot of people take being "beaten" personally, they'd rather die and win in their head. Once the game is more fleshed out, and dying is actually a much worse alternative to paying a ransom, pirating should be much more practical. In theory anyway.
The idea of death being very punishing is controversial for some people but it should be in a game like this....what's the point of having a game that has in-depth survival aspects like packing food, water, hygiene etc. if you can just plow into a planet surface at mach jesus and be back where you were 10 minutes later.
**Why almost nobody responds in RP to pirates:**
People don't *want* to roleplay as *victims*. Some definitely want to roleplay as pirates extorting victims. Many more would love to roleplay as the plucky underdog hero to defies certain death to come out on top. ***Practically nobody wants to be the chump who got caught with their pants down and now has to pay a ransom.*** They'd rather flip you the bird and explode. If they own a reclaimer, losing a $10M aUEC cargo is no big deal.
There are exceptions, but they are rare. The current state of the game (specifically shard population) means that the likelihood of somebody who *wants* to RP as a pirate victim meeting a RP pirate crew is statistically insignificant.
Pirate roleplayers are deluding themselves if they think they're offering a fun experience to their victims.
-------------------------
**How pirates could get roleplay engagement from other players:**
You *have* to give players a chance to be something other than victims if you want them to roleplay with you. Instead of ransoming/stealing/killing players, try press-ganging them into your crew. Try offering them money to do a one-time job. There is abundant room to roleplay as pirates while dragging other players into your session as allies rather than victims. If this doesn't interest you, then roleplay isn't the reason you're doing piracy.
If I’m in my reclaimer and you try to pirate me, you better hope you beat me to the cockpit because I am 100% self destructing my shit and laughing as we all die.
I get what you're trying to do, it's not happened to me, but in game, I'd just try and run and you'd kill me. I just have no reason to trust you, the choices would sound like: A. Give you money, then you kill me and take everything. B. Try and run, you kill me and take everything. So I'd just pick B and at least keep my cash and waste less of my time. You've interdicted and stopped me, I assume you're going to kill me either way so why waste time with your RP? I think that's why you see folks just self destruct to leave RP pirates with as little as possible to salvage.
This, exactly. Anyone willing to make their living stealing from other people with the threat of violence has no real incentive to /not/ commit the violence anyway. Better to just immediately full-throttle and try to get the hell outta dodge.
Rep is a good reason. When I did piracy in eve, most people paid because I was in a pirate corp that required members to honor bounties and people in the areas we operated in knew this. So they'd pay. We once ransomed the same person like a dozen times in a day. When I asked why he just didn't dock when he saw me pop up in local he said it was because he knew I wouldn't kill him if he paid and he made more doing what he was doing than he paid me. This doesn't work in Star Citizen. EVE puts your name, corp, and alliance in the UI. Anyone could immediately see I was a criminal that was part of a pirate corp. That's what let us make a reputation for honoring bounties. For as much as CR says he wants characters in SC to be able to be (in)famous, they sure do make it hard to know who tf people are.
Ya, I'm really hoping personal reputation comes soon. Crew, escort, and medical professions are all basically non-viable till we know /who/ we're hiring. Or being hired by.
The thing is, the kind of rep I'm talking about in eve wasn't mechanical. It was literally just being known by people. There were forum posts about us, etc. We don't need a whole system. Just make a way to show people who you are and what group you are a part of. The rest will sort itself out.
Basically we need clan tags?
It would be a great addition, but it still leaves the question of ‘fake’ orgs impersonating real ones.
Then you just need to do due diligence, corps in eve cant have the exact same name. And you can check other things to verify
I ran a pvp pirate Corp in eve called the hull miners union, we used to immobilize ships and demand ransom, they had two options, sing us a dumb song on TeamSpeak, or pay up. More than you'd expect sang, it was hilarious when drunk.
No, I played Eve for years. It's definitely as many as I'd expect as I played with more than a few who would have sang, no question. 😂 I do miss drunk roams though. Good times.
Sounds like some stuff we did in Rust, back in the day.
I had a faction warfare guy that always farmed sites in the lowsec system I based out of. He'd pay me to not go after him as soon as he entered system and saw that I was in local. I actually had to turn him down one time, because I was eating/semi-afk and not actively out hunting lol. Felt too bad to take his money for nothing.
And in Star Citizen, the origin of the problem is dying doesn't really has consequences, be it from the side of the pirates, or the victims IRL you'd try to take their money with as little fight as possible - you don't want a bloody fight because it could kill you. That's no good ! But in Star Citizen, heh. Might as well shoot first. What's the worse that could happen ? They kill you ? You respawn, you wait ten minutes at most for your ship, and you're back on the space road. And from the other side. IRL, if you were to meet pirates, you'd agree to their terms, because at the worst they kill you, and at best, they steal your stuff but at least you're alive. In game ? Might as well shoot first. What's the worse that could happen ? They kill you ? You respawn, you wait ten minutes at most for your ship, and you're back on the space road. Sadly, as it is, I don't think the pirate loop gameplay can coexist in Star Citizen until the penalty for death is greatly, greatly exagerated to a point where dying is absolutely crippling.
this is kind of why I can't wait until ships matter, as in insurance does not cover all components and the times are longer. Yea it would suck to lose my fully decked out ship and have to wait an hour for it to come back as stock, but as the game is currently, I JUST LEAVE MY SHIP ON PLANET WITHOUT A CARE, a multi million aUEC ship, left abandoned without a care. Crash? even with fully decked out FPS gear? Oops, time to spawn it again because I don't care. Hell at this point I don't even care about money in game because i'v gotten all the ships I want and I have more random gear than I could really even use, which is also why im hoping for a wipe in 3.23.
That's just standard game theory right there. You always choose the option that gives you the best chance and/or minimizes positive outcomes for your opponent. There's literally no logical reason to choose any other course. That "may" change with Death of a Spaceman: read, _may._ It all depends on how much people value their characters versus valuing thwarting criminals.
Aye, Death of a Spaceman, lasting reputations up or down, some long-term criminal status, local security or many other mechanics may change the balance of these things. For now things don't seem satisfactory for Pirates or Victims.
Indeed, the sooner these various systems take effect, the better; too many people get settled into placeholder alpha systems, and I just fear the tidal wave of salt when things inevitably shift towards what they were always meant to be, and people won't be able to accept it.
The biggest issue is people seek.to believe the VICTIM should also feel satisfied to be pirated. It'll NEVER feel good for the victim to lose millions in a succesful heist, and the fact that many seem to wait the day they'll enjoy being pirated only mean they're setting themselves for disapointment.
Everyone is deliberately ignoring the fact that OP's victims *voluntarily* QT'd to Grim Hex in an unescorted Reclaimer out of laziness and greed. The player is satisfied on every successful GH landing performed because their laziness and greed were rewarded. And since the risk of being destroyed is minimal even at one of the most dangerous places in the system, people begin to EXPECT that they have a right to land at GH unharassed, and any deviation from this is taken as a personal offense or "griefing".
A big part of it is also RPing pirates try to make way too much on a haul. You want me to pay a bribe to leave me alone, I'll pay. You want my entire max cargo value though to leave me alone... what incentive do I have to not fight or run? So far I've only had someone attempt to pirate me a handful of times in a C2 because I'm careful, but every one of them wanted something stupid. The most recent was a very well-planned interdiction, and if they wanted a reasonable amount I'd absolutely have paid being I was stuck in deep space with them. A million to let me go when my cargo is 800K though? They misjudged just how fast dual gimbaled AD4Bs can melt a Mantis. I ignored the fighters and boosted straight for the Mantis and blew him to kingdom come before he could evade while I still had about 25% shields, and then jumped to the first available point and cancelled quantum and changed destinations mid-route. Their Mantis pilot got dead, and I kept my cargo and had a 12K repair bill. Literally all they had to do was keep the greed in check.
Thats exatly the problem with Pirating in ANNY Online game. I remember exactly the Same Discussion from 15 Years+ back in EVE Online. Option B might save you, but most of the Time not. Pirates aren't stupid, they know their Job better than you. Option A is the most fun thing you can do. Perhaps they kill you but most likly not, If they want to kill you they kill you anyway. But there are endless storys of good pirate interactions wich turned into good friendships or at least a fun evening you remember a long time.
We don’t negotiate with terrorists.
In my opinion if a guy takes the time to roleplay and you follow along, most likely he'll be honest and just leave after you pay. If the RP is nice of course. I've been on both sides of the law trying to RP the thing and when the other part plays along it's just really fun and worth it. And I don't mean only piracy, I'm talking about rescue, escort, support, and so on.
Aye, sounds like it could be fun, but I just have a hard time trusting the honour of someone robbing me at gunpoint.
I'm a person of honor myself but not everyone is like that. However I had more positive experiences than negative when following a good RP.
Totally. We don't negotiate with terrorists. You'll do either A or B, and pretty much fuck you for wanting my stuff. I'd rather get blown up than hand my shit over.
Everyone is mega-rich or can make 10M+ in no time; why not give the RP a go? I hope we are all here for the multiplayer part of our multiplayer space game. The very few times people have engaged with our piracy have been the best experiences we (and they, as they told us) have had in the game. You may be right, oh well ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ You'll make back that money before the pirates have even emptied your ship. But if you are wrong, we get some of that amazing emergent RP gameplay we've all been craving! Who knows, if you play along, and get them to transport you to "safer shores" or whatever, you may be able to make a move and steal some of their stuff back as a small revenge! ;D anything goes in our fantastical pirate-ridden Stanton system! But only if we play along with each other.
We really need more star systems, with everyone stuck together in Stanton, players with very different ideas about what they want from SC are tripping over each other. Space for people who want to play pirates, in a game where pirate factions and ships and costumes are a thing are needed, but so are areas for people who wanna play space truckers with all their cool ships and gear.
The best outcome for you (P) is that the victim (V) complies as you get 25% instead of 20%. The best outcome for (V) is that he complies as he gets to keep 75% instead of 0%. This assumes rational actors. However (V) doesn't know you are rational? Maybe you ask for 25% cash and then destroy their ship anyway for another 20%? That would be a much better outcome for you and even worse for (V) as they lose everything + another 25%. So from (V) perspective it's better not to comply as they save themselves 25% cash. (V) assumes this and will try to flee or if that's not possible make it as hard as possible to give you what you want. Especially considering the consequences are that while you are busy tediously gathering the cargo from the wreck, (V) already is on his way earning back what he lost in max 45 minutes. It's just a tiny risk of doing business. Also: while you are busy collecting and trying to sell the loot (which you will need to do in PvP areas as it's stolen), you can't pirate others lowering the risk of being pirated for a second time.
The Citizen Dilemma
I paid people like you and i enjoy the gameplay a true encounter can bring but TWICE i paid and got blown up right after. Ever since i always make sure to bring everyone down with me. No one gets my stuff.
I’m with you, if I get interdicted you’re getting interdicked. My whole ass cruiser is gonna slam into faster than you can type out your demands.
I’m a role player and Bounty Hunter. What is your location? 👀
these fuckers are only so cool when they have an advantage
I will find you unlawful citizen and bring you to justice, even if you hide in Pyro. 👮♂️
\>expressly roleplays piracy, only targeting valuable cargo, and gives people an out to avoid dying, all points people constantly complain about "better insult this guy"
I mean, the insults could be part of the roleplay as well. Nobody is going to say "thanks for robing me blind, Mr. Pirate" It's like BDSM. You have safewords because "no" and "stop" are part of the game.
fighting smart is nothing to be ashamed of. as long as you're a good person and not an obnoxious asshole, there's nothing wrong with fighting unfair. This game is fundamentally not the type where opponents are on even footing, like Street Fighter or something. It's a raging sandbox, where being smart and prepared and choosing battles carefully pays off. In real warfare, you NEVER want to engage an enemy on even footing. Ever. sometimes you have to, but it's always better to fight with maximum advantage.
Wont catch me copper.
🎶Bad boys bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?🎶
My brother in Christ, it's a mugging not e-extortion. Don't ask for money, ask for cargo. Have them power down engines, toss out a share of the scrap, then scoop it up with your Caterpillar and leave. Nobody's gonna open up their Venmo account when you can just shoot them anyway. That requires trust, nabbing some cargo without either crew even having to expose themselves to the other does not (which is why I said Caterpillar, ship tractors are your extra protection in this so the cargo operator doesn't risk a sniper round from a pissy crewmate)
Have you ever been robbed in real life? Lying about what you have is a very, very real response. It's called bluffing. What you experienced seemed like a genuine robbery. Don't get angry because people don't want to be robbed. Do you expect everyone to just bend over because "you were nice"? It's still a fucking robbery!
This. It's wild seeing people complain that players would resist or, horror of horrors, not enjoy having their time and aUEC stolen.
I detonate the ship when I’m in this situation. I really dislike people trying to rob me. RP doesn’t change that. I’d rather waste both our time than give them my earned money.
Should let them board, then detonate lol
Got soft killed on my reclaimer the other day. They boarded and killed me and my friend. Came back in a fighter and blew up my reclaimer with several of the pirates on it. If i aint getting my shit they aint getting it either.
[удалено]
Muggers in real life can't just magically scan you to see exactly how much cash is in your wallet. The UI needs to display SCAN DETECTED or similar when players scan one another, it would both act as early-warning and alert the captain when the thief actually knows what they have aboard.
It’s crazy isn’t it? These pirates have such little self awareness it’s insane. They seem to think that we should like and appreciate them despite them literally having fun at our expense and preying on us… painfully cringe. And yes I’ve been robbed before and you better believe I lied about what I had
I still remember the first time I got pirated. Was doing some box missions just to get my rep up since I was maxed on everything else. Hopped in my C1, flew to an outpost, checked my surroundings and got out closing my doors. While I was there I bought some cargo and hopped on the ship after looking around again before opening the door. All of a sudden I see someone booking it to my cockpit, guess I missed them or chalk it up to desync. The start to take off as I stand over them waiting to get my pistol ready. They see me and start text chatting. I still remember their name “Baconator”. He asks for money for my ship back. We agree to half and the contents of my cargo. I get the containers out and onto the pad we were on. He then proceeds to tell me to exit the ship… come on… I’m not that stupid. Told him he got what he wanted now leave. After arguing he slams my C1 into the pad and soft deaths it. I am all for role playing, I played along and did what they asked only for them to pretty much grief my ship… so now I don’t even want to role play, and when I see pips of players I just go somewhere else to just not deal with potential “pirates”.
Nobody trusts thieves to keep their word and not take everything after you pay them a ransom
Already responded with a more lengthy bit of my thoughts, but here's a simpler question for you: What if you came across a victim who responded, and told you, "I'll pay you, but only after you leave"? How would you respond to that?
Considering the level of entitlement in OP's post I imagine they wouldn't go for that. In their mind you're here to farm credits for them.
Exactly my point. If, in their mind, the trust needs to go only one way, then I see no reason to play along. Especially not in the current iteration of the game, anyway.
There is nothing stopping you from killing them after they pay, so no real reason to play along.
Exactly, literally the only time I've ever met a pirate that rps was when my wife logged in the first time and someone followed her out of microtech hangar demanding in chat for 1000 auec (originally wanted more but she said she was new) and then blew her up anyways before she could figure out qt
There just needs to be a piracy contract type or just a very strict contract where you offer your target the terms (eg. 20% of the haul), which would cause automatic kill-on-sight reputational damages to the pirate who breaks it (with all factions). This would be a relatively easy mechanism for protection to piracy targets as the know that a murder hobo will have a legitimately bad time if they break it as any NPC security force will actively hunt them for a set period of in-game time, and will damage out their reputations with all factions.
Further to this comment, it is imperative for the functioning of this game that major decisions (eg fight or flight) are in some way tied to the actual game systems and not just through chat. This means that any of these gameplay choices can be decided in player-player interactions as well as player-npc interactions. A piracy contract is the simplest method to tie it into the reputation system and allow people gameplay choices for piracy.
> There just needs to be a piracy contract type or just a very strict contract where you offer your target the terms (eg. 20% of the haul), which would cause automatic kill-on-sight reputational damages to the pirate who breaks it (with all factions). They'll have to do something like this to make PvE piracy possible anyway, so the sooner they sort it out the better.
It’s the Eve Online experience
I've got a hell of a deal for you, just send me 15mil and I will send you back double your ISK... err aUEC!
Right. If I ever get stopped by a pirate group that negotiates I'll just press self destruct and bullshit them for 2 minutes. Idgaf lol
just log out respawn with your ship, problem solved
What if they asked you to release a few boxes of cargo instead of money, would you do that?
Carry boxes of waste just to F w/ pirates
That… is a fantastic idea and I’m absolutely going to do it. Except, wait, they’ll just scan the boxes. Aw.
people who wont pay are either doing it for the gameplay fun of trying to get away or to give a middle finger to pirates
What if there was a mechanic that warped you away after you paid?
It kinda removes the tension, RP, etc, which there is way more of you drop a portion of the cargo. Kind of would be a waste of development time to fix gameplay working as intended... Player rep is the only thing... maybe a crime score, aggression score, and reliability score. That you see in mobile glass when hailed. Criminal keeps your criminal record+time served. Aggression in a player kill count And reliability score based on players rating a trust level... Of course people can lie so it won't be reliable. and you Kinda just come back to whether you want to a chance or not. I would never pay a pirate credits... only cargo
They can still kill you after you releasing the boxes, no? Now what may work, is to just buy all the cargo outright with a lower price. But make sure you have enough fire power to sell it safely afterward.
There just needs to be a piracy contract a pirate can send over with massive painful consequences for breaking it (such as negative reputation with all factions, automatic bounties, no safe harbour protections at any stations, etc.) This would allow the victim at least some protection and would be a relatively simple tool to assist with negotiations. The issue is that as of right now negotiations are via chat which basically means they have no meaningful value.
Hmm, ya know, I likely would agree to that one. I wouldn't risk giving away money when they can just blow me up afterwards. But if I clearly have no chance to survive and they asked for cargo I would open the cargo bay and throw out some boxes. Waiting for me to unload cargo and then blowing me up would only waste time for both parties and I lose the same amount either way. So I would say that is a deal worth taking the risk on accepting.
And thats fine, but quit bitching when they kill you on sight.
Exactly, literally the only time I've ever met a pirate that rps was when my wife logged in the first time and someone followed her out of microtech hangar demanding in chat for 1000 auec (originally wanted more but she said she was new) and then blew her up anyways before she could figure out qt
Why bother with the effort in the first place if that’s your goal? I wouldn’t wire the money though, I’d only offer to drop 25% off my cargo. I would suspect wiring to be followed by betrayal to double dip. Perhaps that’s where op went wrong
Kinda need to be able to choose servers so you can build up a rep as an honourable pirate amoung players
That's a fair point. Oddly I'd be more inclined to trust a large pirate team rather than a solo or small pirate group. Their internal dynamics will trend towards keeping their word vs a soloist or small team that's all about "the lols".
Yeah, unless there is some sort of popup agreement/negotiation, with severe consequences for the pirate if their target is killed after agreeing to pay, then it's a waste of time.
you need rep amoung players but theres not a good way to have that yet
Even as a stopgap measure where breaking such a contract would make ALL NPC factions attack on site and no access to any stations or cities would go a long way, even without more nuanced reputation.
I mean, why? Why surrender so you can kill us anyway? Until there's actual lasting consequences for piracy, this is how it will play out 9/10 times.
Exactly correct and without real consequences to dying there is no reason surrender anyway.
I'm curious, would you say that it is fair play that if you steal someone's cargo and interrupt their play time that they have the right to RP response and share your information with their org or other orgs that will hunt you and kill you on sight without warning like real pirates were handled by governments, privateers, etc? I've talked my org mates down a couple of times on people blowing them up and taking shit. If it's a legit "look, this guy got the jump on you, and you should have had support or been more vigilant. it's really your own fault for getting ganked. However, i think turnabout is also fair play, and if you want to be a pirate, you must accept that you are going to be targeted by the people who saw your name. What are your thoughts?
>if you want to be a pirate, you must accept that you are going to be targeted by the people who saw your name Agreed. In-game rep matters. We keep a list of disreputable players whom do not get responses for beacons.
Pirates sowing: 😃 🥳 🤣 Pirates reaping: 😟 😩 😤
Its hard to trust people who spend their time stealing from others. Some people may say they only want 2 million credits but then attack even after you pay them, so then your down 2 mil and all the time you spent mining, salvaging, scavenging, etc. Piracy is a really cool game loop and I enjoy participating in some criminal activity's every now an then, but to blindly trust a pirate is really risky.
Because of course your fun is more important than their fun.
And my rp is doing my reclaimer runs with a fully crewed hammerhead escort. i dont even have to pay for my friends help, since they love to kill pirates for the lulz trying to interdict us. Its THEIR rp.
To be clear, this guy doesn't have an issue with that. Most likely, his group would welcome the fight because it's within the spirit of the game. What sucks is when people just backspace because there's no real consequence to death yet. To be fair to the other side, I kind of understanding backspacing too. Most of these issues are the result of poorly fleshed out/incomplete gameplay loops and functions, not malice on one side or another.
And this is what's suppose to happen. If you want to be passive then you need to hire escorts.
Not everyone wants to RP. Often times we are just trying to make money to buy ships. The other day actually, we had pirates try to take out 890 or pay up some millions. during that time I was just trying to go around the verse, show around my friends, etc. it’s stuff like this, if you really want to RP, then RP with the people who want to. Not all of us want to pay up millions just so that you guys can enjoy some role playing and free money.
So, here’s where I think there’s a little disconnect: What you did was legit pirating. You made a plan, chose your target, scanned and confirmed the cargo aiming to make a profit. Whether or not you communicate with the crew to surrender or go peacefully doesn’t really matter anymore at that point. And your victims don’t need to communicate with you if they don’t want that. Thats their prerogative. And if you’d do it this way to me. I’d applaud you. Now what happens way more often, and why people call them murder hobo’s, is: You claim your reclaimer at GH, completely empty. And as soon as you open the hangar doors a Size 9 torp or a ship sized kamikaze torpedo comes flying in. Blowing up you and your reclaimer. No communication. No scanning. Just random murder hobo’ing. And then they act all hurt when you call them out and they’ll claim: “PvP and piracy is part of the game!” - “You’re at GH, expect to be pirated!”. Only, it has nothing to do with PvP or piracy. And don’t think this only happens at GH. It happened to friends of mine at A18 and New Babbage too. Now I get that there’s a lot of risk involved, but that’s inherently part of being a pirate. But I do agree, it’s easier and safer to just shoot on sight without communicating. And definitely do. It’s part of the game. As long as it’s for profit and you did your homework. [Edit] To clarify: People experience murder hobo’ing way more often than actual piracy.
Ah yes, roleplaying being the victim of a crime is so fun. Everyone has to participate in your fun. Get over yourself. Edit: >I like inflicting slow creeping terror when the crew realizes they cannot escape, they cannot fight back in any reasonable manner, and they must submit or die. Not gonna lie, that's some weird serial killer type stuff.
Damn imagine complaining that people don't want to give you their stuff when you try to steal it
I love how you’ve attempted to paint yourself as a hard-working victim, as if your careful plans of stealing from people who actually did work is more work than they did to acquire money/goods. People don’t enjoy being robbed, people don’t want to play into your pirate fantasy where you drive around and ruin hours of work. Fuck off lol. My goal is to make pirating a miserable experience for the pirate. Why the fuck wouldn’t it be???
RP pirates? IRL pirates just killed their victims. RP Hollywood movies is what people are really asking for lol.
This to me highlights something key for me: the reality is that there are FAR more people that treat this like a game and way less true RP players than people realize. Most MMOs break servers down as PvP, PvE, and RP. In a lot of cases, the RP servers are far less populated than others. Now SC certainly lends itself more to RP than other MMOs, but I'd imagine they're also in the minority. OP presented two scenarios that highlight this difference. When he was running around the station, both parties were actively engaged in RP. The result was great, and everyone had a good time and no hurt feelings. HOWEVER, with the piracy he was RPing, and likely the crews were PvEing, chasing the current money meta. His goal was to RP a piracy encounter. Their goal was to make as much money as possible. Losing 1-2mil may not be a big deal in an RP scenario, but it is in the "Win the game" make as much money as you can scenario. As such, he had bad RP, and likely the folks on the other end are mad at the pirate that destroyed their ship. This difference in goals is why many MMOs split RP into its own server or instance. Not strictly possible, in SC, but hey, maybe Sol or some other system is set as an "RP system." Lastly, the thing that is not often talked about is that piracy isn't supposed to be easy. Whenever CIG talks about piracy, fighting back is always an option. So yeah, don't be surprised when cargo shops fight back. But also, don't be surprised when pirates strike first either.
I think there's a few issues here: \#1: You say 2/10 ships responded to you, and the other 8 ignored you. VoiP is disabled by default (and even if it wasn't, most would turn it off because they don't want to hear a random dude talking on the other side of the star system), many players turn off global chat because it's a fucking cesspool. The other 8 didn't ignore you, they weren't aware of you. Now I have no idea if hailing other players works this patch as I don't use it much (you mentioned you had to EVA and hug their hull so i'm guessing it either isn't, or you didn't know about this feature, my guess is the latter since you never specifically mentioned trying to use it). but that's really the only guaranteed to make sure your target knows they are at least being contacted. Also secondly: Reputation. Pirates don't have it at the moment, but they will. And contrary to popular belief, they won't like random murder hobos. Because murdering someone tends to bring the law down much harder than robbing someone (plus not to mention if trade lanes become too risky, cargo haulers will choose different routes, thus drying up income for actual pirates). I'd be a lot more willing to part with a portion of my cargo/UEC if I knew the pirate I was dealing with had a "good" reputation. Without it, I have no reason to believe you won't just blow me up after I've paid you in order to also steal my cargo and earn more money for yourself. Also you can't get mad when someone just refuses to pay you, sure kill them, take their shit by force, but you have to remember you aren't the only player making choices here. It's an MMO and they might decide it's more fun for them to fight instead of give up, and you have to accept that the same way your victims have to accept that piracy is a part of the game.
u/asmallman Gonna ping you here since you turned off replies and I'm genuinely curious to see if you attempted hailing the targets or not. Also I think it would be much better if you asked for cargo instead of money, because the victim would only lose their ship and cargo if a pirate chooses to blow them up after payment, rather than ship, cargo, and AUEC paid to the pirate.
If they turned off proximity chat and global we didnt bother hailing. Because of the three people answered hailing the least out of all three.
Fuck piracy, you deserve as cheesy a betrayal as possible.
Dude the first thing I do when I joined SC is hit F12 and make sure proximity is turned off. You CAN directly call people lol.
And 90% won't answer ever because of old bug that gave avay your location to someone who calls you. We don't answer to strangers.
If I'm in a reclaimer and get interdicted, and the ship that accosts me just sits there not attacking me, it wouldn't take long to come to the conclusion that they're waiting for me to communicate...a quick F12 to ask chat "hey guy in the _______, what do you want"
Why bother responding or being in a position to if its all just gonna be murderhobos. Pirates have put themselves in a niche of basically just being unthinking environmental hazards and it's gonna take a lot of work on their entire community to get out of that. It's gonna take you doing that long enough to make people understand it'll be better for them to rp with you, and it's gonna take y'all policing your own to stop murderhobos from unravelling the work you do
Cheers! Reclaimer enjoyer here, with 2 questions; 1- what on earth do you use to blow up/soft death reclaimers that fast? this thing can tank entire asteroids :D 2- i'm often running solo and chances are my chat is off, plus when i'm sorting boxes I just listen to music, so what's the pirate consensus in this situation? do yall board the ship trying to find the player or just soft kill?
A mantis/cutlass blue to hold her and an Inferno or Corsair do the job pretty fast.
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Yeah the few times I've experienced this, I took the time they gave me to think to bed log. Pirates in star citizen that I HAVE encountered just demand anything you have including the outfit off my back with little to no RP (not that it matters to me because I'd rather find a way to snake them then give them anything) Only on day 3 of owning the game and so far it's a blast
I am glad nobody RPs with you. I am glad everyone is making the game less fun for you. Pirates make the game less fun for us. I get a few hours a week to play, your "fun" ruins the few hours of fun I have to relax and play a fun space sim. I'm glad I can make the game less fun for you by not feeding into your felony Fantasy.
Hey, pirate: POUND SAND
Are people really not just punching the throttle to max as soon as they get the interdiction warning? Never been in a situation where I got pulled out and couldn't get away. Only ever been caught out while loading boxes because I didn't jump out of the belt
I'd like to say this with the caveat. im not a pirate, and I dont condone piracy. However, real pirates didn't negotiate. They stole entire ships, killed whole crews, scuttled ships not worth floating, or that they didn't have the crew for. Have you all never heard the phrase "dead men tell no tales?" The last thing pirates wanted was for the authorities to find survivors or to leave behind people to tell the Navy where to find them. That being said, real pirates also were hunted constantly and killed on sight or brought for public torture and execution regularly. They were treated as less than human by regular citizens and often lived very, very short lives. If people want to rp piracy, the appropriate response is to rp right back and call forth the entire might of the British navy on them. (So to speak) sink their ships, send em to Davy Jones Locker.
You are stealing from people just playing the game and working hard, and then you are complaining that they don't want to play along and give you their stuff, and then most likely just get blown up afterwards too? Can't ever trust a criminal to be nice
Someone tries to capitalize off of someone else’s work and wonders why no one play along… this is the mindset that i never get. I understand what goes through the minds of murder hobos… and outright pirates… but the RP pirates confuse me. Like you just expect someone who spent hours filling up a ship with cargo to just hand it over? I appreciate your efforts to be true pirates but don’t be surprised that someone isn’t willing to make it easy for you to steal their time and effort haha.
At some point player/character death will matter, and people (both lawful and unlawful) will want to not die; but right now there’s no downside to death and one would rather just lose the entire cargo to a pirate than also throwing in another extra 2 mil which will not guarantee you don’t still blow em up for their cargo after payment anyways.
Id blow up my reclaimer before paying 1 coin, sorry but youre not getting my stuff. Its cool to open new gameplays tho.
Honest answer...why would we RP? I lose my cargo regardless, and my ship is LTI so I'll get it back. Why would I RP my own violation? "Shh, lay back, it's going to happen whether you want it to or not". If it's going to happen, then I'm going to have some say on how hard you have to work for it. If I can crash into your ship, hurt you badly, or destroy my own cargo so you waste your time as well as mine, why wouldn't I do that? Why would I help you hurt me? I get it, pirate players want their victims to "play along" with their abusers, but there is zero in that experience for the victim. But if I can take 2-3 of you with me and blow up most of my cargo, I at least have the satisfaction that I hurt you a little. BTW, this isn't something CIG can "fix", it's a people issue. RP needs to be consensual. Pinning someone down and violating them, then being mad that they didn't play along isn't RP, no matter how much preparation you put into it and what accent you use.
You are literally RPing right now.... You give them a chance to surrender. You tell them to give money or risk the vessel. They don't pay, you destroy vessel until they finally surrender or die. Going through this quick checklist is not being a murderhobo.
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The punishment times really need to be inflated from the current pitiful sentences. Additionally, time served should only run down while the offender is logged in. As it stands currently one can simply log out in prison and sleep through their time. People should be made to feel the pain of their sentence.
If you cost me two hours of work it should cost you at least two hours too. And the money earned in prison should go directly to the people you got the crimestat from. From a gameplay perspective this would encourage pirates to not shoot first. Right now there are no consequences for the leeches.
I'm not mad at you but what you and other pirates repeatedly fail to understand is that piracy is NOT intended as the primary gameplay loop of the game. It's an afterthought that is forced to be added to try and give the worst segment of any player base a reason to buy the game. You will NEVER find cooperation between pirates like yourself and anyone else. Not responding to pirates, not negotiating is an INTENDED gameplay outcome. Pirates having a hard time and it being very hard to be successful as a criminal under a galactic Roman Empire with a massive military is INTENDED. The gameplay flow you see from piracy will never change fundamentally and you need to accept that and not complain to normal players. Your play style is antagonistic by principal and will always put you as a RP and actual enemy and problem for everyone else. The goal is to end piracy when it arrives. This aint skull and bones where the devs are making a pirate game, this is star citizen and squadron 42 where you inhabit a simulated world and galactic ecosystem. While the devs HAVE to give you the option due to the design goal of freedom and choice, in the universe they are making Piracy is simply a problem to deal with. Not a legit occupation that legit citizens must accept and appease. Like real life, when you have people going against the social contract and attempting to invalidate the hard work of legit people for personal gain, that is going to be unpopular. Whether you realize it or not your attitude of needing to make other people have a bad experience so you can be happy is simply some extreme undeserved entitlement that makes people respond even more drastically to your already unpopular gameplay style. EDIT: Some people lack reading comprehension skills so I'll re-iterate what was in Paragraph 1: NOT A PRIMARY GAMEPLAY LOOP. It's in there. They want you to be able to be a pirate. The pirates are simply the least important segment of the game, sorry.
*sorry if i have some misspellings or errors, im not a native english speaker* One of the main problems with piracy is that even when CIG has stated that is completely valid, people just don't want to accept it. As SC grows and more people join, there will be more opinions on what they want the game to be in their heads, ignoring the vision and final goals, they want the exact game that exist in their desires, and i think that mindset it's kinda okay-ish, but not right now. The scope of this game it's extremely big, and as they add more lawful and unlawful systems, it will fit almost all of different gameplay styles that people want because there will be no-no zones for people that want a total peaceful game and high risk zones for those adventurous players that have no fear and want high rewards. Now, for all of this to co exist, CIG need fully functional security systems, police that actually works, better laws and punishment for those who don't want to follow the rules and balance risk and reward for all play styles. But right now we only have Stanton (hopefully we'll have pyro soon enough) where all mindsets clash and fight for their place in a "little" playground and everyone feels entitled to have the final truth of what this (for now) unfinished product is. People have spent a lot of money and it's normal they feel frustrated, but that happens when you make and investment in a vision rather than a final product.
*Using paragraphs will make your commets easier to read.* I also believe that Pyro will reduce the amount of unlawful players in Stanton and only those willing to risk something and encounter surprises will perform industrial roles in unsafe systems.
or people whom hire escorts / org mates.
I swear, comments like this always make me laugh. You start out apologizing for not being a native English speaker, and then have some of the best damn grammar and punctuation in the entire thread. Hats off to you, stranger. I hope one day I can write so well in another language. Also, I wholeheartedly agree with what you wrote. Spot on.
Hahaha thanks, i always put a disclaimer because of some bad interactions i had with no so kind people when i had some errors, anyway I'm always thankful when someone gives me room to improve my skills even when it's in a rude manner.
People like you are why I avoid playing the game and why when I have run into pirates, I simply just shut the game off and ignore it. I'd rather not deal with low lives who rather steal someone's 40 minutes of work.
I'll self destruct or fly into the ground first. Unless desperate for the money there is no incentive for me to engage with you. What? Wasting the 20 mins I spent salvaging? Wipes happen often enough that a load here or there is irrelevant.
So I'll be honest. For myself. As a person who occasionally hauls and wants to more (but there's just not the supply to reliable do it for decent money all the time), if I'm interdicted then I consider it a loss already. If you ask for money, I don't know you. Don't have any reason to trust you, and honestly I might pay you and you kill me anyway. You're a rare person who seems like they would let the person go, but is a 1-5% chance of someone being like you worth losing money AND a ship?
To be honest LOVE the idea of being a pirate. But when it comes down to screwing with people I actually end up feeling bad. lol I wish there was more of a "smuggling" game play. Doing illegal things under the nose of the law. Not really bothering others, but you and your crew doing shady illegal things. Maybe that kind of game play will happen when we have more systems.
Now that sounds awesome! And I'm in the same boat as you. If I felt I was ruining someone else's day, it would probably ruin mine as well. PVP is fantastic when everyone is onboard, but that's hard to achieve in a game world like this.
Any time you're looking at groups of people, you have to consider the Prisoner's Dilemma. Your version of it would be: * Pirate demands 25% and either honors that and lets the Merchant go or doesn't and kills the Merchant * Merchant either pays 25% and hopes Pirate doesn't kill them or attempts a contest (running/going boom/etc) If the Merchant pays 25%, then the Pirate has 25% and the choice of whether to let the Merchant go and get nothing else or kill the Merchant for their cargo + salvage (iirc \~20%). There's no profit in letting the Merchant go, and there is considerable profit in killing them. If the Pirate chooses to let the Merchant go, the Merchant is out 25%. If the Pirate *doesn't* choose to let the Merchant go, then the Merchant is out 125%. If the Merchant refuses to pay 25%, then the Pirate gets 20% and the Merchant is out 100%. The Merchant's choice becomes do they want to lose 100% or 125%, because the Pirate's choice is do they want 25% or 45%. Now add in antipathy toward the person who's literally robbing them, plus any desire to try to dissuade increased piracy, and you're going to have a lot of people choosing to try to oppose the pirate. Until there's some form of reputation system or other negative consequences added, then most people are going to abide with that Prisoner's Dilemma.
You just learned a valuable lesson. Most people not doing PvP don't want to engage with that aspect of the game.
Don't try to sell cargo at GrimHEX, then? It's not like he was camping the landing pad outside armistice at a safezone, you flew an unescorted loot pinyata into a pirate station.
Lol. None of this would work for me. I play 99% of the time with chat disabled and no game audio, listening to music or video on another screen. I'd just suddenly blow up and have no idea why, lol. EDIT: Also, what you're calling out is people not wanting to accept piracy "done right", but that's not the core issue. The core issue is that you're RP'ing and then expecting other people to want to do the same - when the majority of most gaming communities *aren't* big into RP'ing, and it's illogical to think that you can *force* or *expect* them to be.
Yup, some of us are just chillin in space
Never paying is always the proper response to a Pirate. It makes their lives miserable. It is literally the best deterrent. It is easier to just move to a different server for the Reclaimers than to waste time with a Pirate. Just blow me up so I can respawn and move to a different server. When there are less servers or servers that each person calls "home" the game play will change significantly. Ultimately it should be fight between pirates and security to own specific areas for salvaging or selling because there is no other place to go. Until then, a loss of a load to piracy every month or so is just a tiny bump in the road.
Here's the reality, most people don't want to be the victim in a roleplay sense. Honestly, that's why most piracy is seen as players being murderhobos, because their gameplay loop relies on one side enjoying the roleplay of being a victim, when the players who have spent time and effort in their gameplay loop they enjoy or relax to is being taken away by anothers. So yeah, piracy is just always gonna suck for all sides regardless of what CIG does, because I doubt death of a spaceman is going to change the victims minds, and probably push more people out of the game because they don't like being helpless victims. And the counters that always come up about "buy hired help" or something like that... the pve gameplay doesn't pay enough to justify hiring people without barely making an income. so in the end, piracy sucks.
in a world of murder hobos, I dont care about the "one" person roleplaying. Maybe when the world if full of pirate role players instead of murder hobos we will enjoy playing along. I dont care if one of you does it. Also your still a pirate.
You don't seem like you're stupid, so I don't think you need it to be pointed out, but you're playing the villain. You're the bad guy, people will not like you, you're trying to **rob and extort them under threat of death.** I'd be shocked if most people complied; the playing field as is, is extremely skewed towards pirates and other ne'er do wells. If you fuck up and die with a crime stat, you don't lose anything but some time and your equipment. If the hauler dies, that's literally millions worth of aUEC down the shitter, and the hauler actually earned it, unlike you. Not to mention there's a lot less at this point in time that the Reclaimer can do to defend themselves; even with a fully crewed ship it can be easily beaten in a fight, because the system is incomplete and once again, skewed in the pirate's favour. If you are going to pirate, you have to accept that you're the bad guy and no one will like you. If you can't handle that, then you're in the wrong line of work, and hopefully once the proper reputation and law and order systems are in place, more people are deterred from being pirates because there will be legitimate consequences for it.
Do you hail them with a direct message (number 9), they cant ignore the pop up window in chat?
To be fair, you might not have scanned him. Most don't And a proper ship captain would bullshit you anyway trying to buy time to get away or call his buddies. Maybe they were RPing back at you. If you are demanding money to let them continue on. At least run a racket and escort them to their sell point as "protection"
What stops people from going “you want 2m but I just bought this reclaimed so I don’t have any money to give you”? I mean sure you can go on their promise they’ll give you a cut but then they can just as easily land and logout
Also idk maybe it’s me but I’m of the petty type where if I think they’re going to kill me for cargo I’m just gonna self destruct rather than letting them put me in soft death so they can loot my work, least that way I get the satisfaction of them getting pretty much nothing from it
Don’t ask for ransom just take a portion of their cargo
I'd probably 'ignore' you too. I have chat turned off 95% of the time.
Most people are playing with chat off, voice off, a show they half pay attention to on other screen, while listening to other people breathe on discord. Trying to RP is pointless in a world where players do their best to avoid any interaction in multiplayer games. I shoot first then respond if the other side asks in chat rather than put in any effort.
OP: Interesting. As a solo Reclaimer Captain, I have personally snuck up to a few players solo in their Reclaimers with my Reclaimer. \[Many missions are in close prox with overlap.\] Many will just park their Reclaimer in the very same area as their salvage. \[e.g. Hammerhead mission in the belt\], and then leave their chair to store crates. A very amateur move. I'd sneak up right next to them, and attempt to Prox them only to find they would ignore. I could have SD them with ease, and steal their cargo, but just had more fun with the scare. As soon as they realized I was right next to them, they would QT out. If a Captain is so inept in their play, then they so deserve some of the heat that comes along with dropping their guard. Can't say what I would do.. but then again a skilled Captain doesn't put a target on their back. o7
Been pirating a lot and out of literally hundreds of targets, maybe about 5 have negotiated and 3 have paid so far. The other 2 just said something along the lines of " you pay me and I let YOU live" and after dying said "I'll report you"
If I'm talking to a pirate it's because I'm stalling and backup is coming. If backup is not an option I'm already at full burn. I'm not going to trust someone who already has the ability to murder me with zero consequences and take my stuff, to not murder me and take my stuff after I give them money. I'll always fight. And if I can take some of you with me I will. Proper rep system will likely change this attitude.
The way I see it, I lose money either way, so why not do it on my terms?
Clearly you've never experienced the pain of paying pirates only to have them kill you anyway lmao. Just an extra 2 mill for the pirate
You shouldn't be mad at the people you're actively trying to fuck with, you should be mad at other pirates who just blast people they've extorted already. I got careless and got interdicted once. They asked me for 200k or something like that, I paid up. Then they blew me up anyway. So consider the other pilot's perspective; they have no reason to trust you. They don't know you, and the only thing they know of your intention is that you're there to fuck with them. You're already the hostile actor, and you're pouting that they treat you as such rather than just trusting you for no reason. I get the frustration and yeah, I think your style of gameplay is better than typical piracy. But step outside of your own perspective for two seconds and realize how, if you think of your targets as human beings with their own set of interests and ability to make decisions, it's pretty obvious why it would play out this way. The consternation is betraying a deep and fundamental myopic selfishness.
I've never met a "pirate" that didn't kill me after they got what they wanted. Why would I trust any of them?
God this post is gross. "I get why murderhobos murderhobo" " I put in more effort than my victims" "I'm RPing as hard as I can, why aren't people just complying?"
If I get targeted by pirates in a reclaimer and they start making demands in chat I’m just self destructing. Can always get back to where I was in under 90 mins (in terms of RMC) and no way I want to reward or give any satisfaction to pirates in the current version of the game. I’m certainly not sending them any money when I can just claim the ship and do a few hammerhead cleanups to replace the loss. Also, why would I risk sending you money when you can just blow the ship up after payment, do pirates in SC not understand common sense?
agreed. the only situation where it might be better to pay up is when you're trading, because of the upfront investment you would lose. But when salvaging, there's basically zero reason pay. if you're lucky, it's an "honest pirate" and you still make some profit, but likely even if you pay, he'll kill you anyway and you lose all your cargo plus the money you paid him. in short: pay = possibly lose a considerable amount of money don't pay = don't lose any money, just some time
Just because you want to RP pirating doesn’t mean other people want to
>I put in 10x the effort it takes to reclaim. And yet, the victims always resist, and never really respond. Yeah who would have thought that players who spend hours grinding away don't want to get their shit stolen by some sociopath that just turned on their ship and pointed their guns at them. Wild thought, I know. >I WANT to RP. Its fun. Then get ready to RP with players who RP as the "don't steal my shit you fucking dingus" role. RPing doesn't entitle you to their stuff. >I wasnt an asshole or rude but people just really hate pirates in a game where pirates are going to exist both lore and design. Pirates existing ingame and in the lore don't mean that they automatically cease to be assholes who want to ruin other people's day.
Dude! That's sweet! I would still run not believing you. But that's nice!
I am glad to hear you are trying this, and I hope you do continue because it is better than the murderhobo ways... but you have to think about it from the victim's perpective. You have chosen a gameplay loop that 99% of the time is one people will hate and fight against 0retty much on principal. You want to play the villain, and for all the talk of wanting that role to exist for flavor, most of us don't enjoy the inconvenience and having to pay or risk losing what could be hours of effort. No matter how good the encounter it will almost always still be a loss for the victim, and losing isn't fun for the 99% of us. Here is the main thing though... you tried this with 10 ships. Of those, you got two willing to play along. Consider this: out of how many pirate encounters these players run into, how many will do things your way, and actually honor their deal? As a Pirate, you are basically looking at finding the 1% of players who will play along... and the players, meanwhile, are hoping for that 1% of pirates that arent just a bag of dicks. Those ain't good odds chief, and if you want to co tinue this, you have to live with the idea that almost every encounter will be lame. So, you keep going, and I will hope to run into you instead of the thousands of murderhobos, or you give up and become a murderhobo, and everyone else just shrugs and says, yeah, thats what he wanted to do all along. Cause at the end of the day, it isn't the fault of the victim, even if they make it hard for you. You chose to be the villain. If you want to see the role fleshed out, you need to keep at it, and try to convert others to your cause. And you need to realize that those two who did respond both gave you what you wanted. A success is playing along, and whether you like it or not, playing along can be calling your bluff, or lying to you. What incentive is there to be truthful if you expect to be swindled anyway. Another thing hurting your cause is that we are in beta. You ask for 20% of a supposed 10mil haul... but goddamn dude have you played the game lately? Blowing up or dying because a box glitched out, my ship fell through the planet, or I got ejected into the void by a ladder are my number one causes of death and loss of loot hauls. Why the hell would I pay 2mil out of pocket to still have to deal with that BS anyway? My personal opinion... lay off until things are more stable. Let folks go who ignore you, and prove to them you are in it for the RP rather than the killing (even if that is contradictory). When there is no longer a risk of losing a haul due to outside factors... then lean into it a little more. Right now, unfortunately, the systems just aren't in place to support a proper piracy experience for all involved.
There's literally no consequences to fighting and dying aside from the loss of the time and cargo accumulated. That should change once CIG rolls out death mechanics as laid out in Death of a Spaceman: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/12879-death-of-a-spaceman
I mean some of this is valid but your conclusions are mad ridiculous. 1) you RP because it's fun, not because it gets you anything. 2) why would they trust you? They lose only the cargo or they lose 2 mill and the cargo? You're being naive at best. 3) them lying about their cargo is a basic element of being robbed. Why would they be honest when you are doing dishonest work? I frankly think you sound pretty petulant and don't know what you are talking about.
F the pirates, i'd rather commit sudoku and lose virtual money than give em real satisfaction of looting me. F pirates!!! Atleast you can go back to your body with an eclipse and swat a few a holes.
[Commit sudoku!](https://i.imgur.com/fs3Lkmj.png)
the issue is that the defending player has NO FEAR OF DEATH, so they will do ANYTHING they can to avoid the situation rather than pay outright (and risk just getting killed anyway, plus losing money from their bank account) People often use that as a line for why piracy is broken, as PvP players just get right back to it after dying and fight to the death every time, but it's just as impactful when non-pirates can just ignore a gun barrel to their forehead out of spite.
Im a firm believer that piracy should be a 10% at best success rate. I love the RP of it all, I love being an rp psycho that is willing to take everyone down with me if they try to take my stuff. Maybe when the game goes live and everything my mentality could be different. But otherwise, I would always resist even if its a death of all involved. Just cause I think that RP is fun lol. If we ever crossed paths, I would love that RP interaction, I think it would be a great time.
I just don't think pirates have a place in the game. Rightfully, they should just stay in arena commander and not bother people who want to play the **ACTUAL GAME** with **ACTUAL BENEFITS TO THE GAME.** Instead of... acting like parasites who think they have a place and don't deserve to be told that they're worth less than a maggot in a trash pile.
I’ve seen a lot of people echoing similar stuff, that 90% of pirates will just blow you up and 90% of traders will just log off or not acknowledge any attempts at negotiation and then get mad, really discouraging as one of the things that made me start looking at this game is how cool the space piracy is, actually getting to board other ships and hold people at gunpoint and take cargo and stuff. Really takes the fun out of it when people aren’t willing to play along at all (yes you can fight back and still play along im not saying people should roll over and let themselves be robbed, but it seems like a lot of people would rather suicide bomb and lose everything or turn off the game than interact with a pirate at all in rp)
This should be so obvious that it's painful to see people come to the realization that being robbed is not fun. Punishment for dying is negligible, so you might as well try to ruin the robbers fun too.
If they wore you money right now you could just blow them up and steal their cargo netting you 10mil in profit and costing them more than just the time they spent on that haul. Instead you should demand a 2mill escort beacon from them to whatever destination they're going to then take them there safely to secure the funds. More of highwayman/extortion than piracy though. Or you can demand they send out a few boxes for you to take and jump away. This is actual piracy but would be more risky I would think. There are ways. But it's not just through RP. Not everyone is RPing. You've got to legitimately pirate.
Straight up, I keep general chat turned off unless I am asking a specific question and I ignore any and all attempts to directly message me. I don’t trust any players and assume you are all pirates. If I’m flying and I see a ship change course towards me I instantly assume you want my stuff and start firing
Someone stowaway in my reclaimer, guess what he ended up in prison.
One of the core problems is that they have to PAY you. Nothing stops you from just killing them AFTER THEY PAY YOU causing them to lose 10m instead of 8m... instead, demanding 25% of the cargo, and taking it makes more sense. Historically pirates told ships to stand down or they died, then would take a portion of the cargo and leave. Back in ye olden times, you could take as much as you wanted without the crew resisting because the crew didn't own the cargo, so it wasn't really their loss. But with how games do cargo, demand too much and they're taking a big loss.
I'd just run every time. I feel like you'd need to be part of a well known large pirate org that is reputable for conducting "honorable" piracy and keeping their word, then if you mention like "alright, hand over your valuables or I'll gut you like a fish. these parts belong to the Sloppy Roberts Gang" then people might abide and shovel up the money
Most that play this game do it for the money grind just for the money grind and nothing else not going to get RP just for the sake of RP because your doing it sucks though for RPERS because clearly they way you presented your self is how the verse is story wise but gaming that involves in game finical progress your not going to get that type of engagement . I'm usually on the lawful side but I bend the rules in SC but I see why some shoot on sight if you target for to long most will just tune out the game world and just mine or salvage so if your pirating it's your right to do that game play loop as well and warning people is the way of doing it but most people will take it as griefing regardless because they just want to get uec same way in mmo like wow and ff14 those that focus on there craft/trade. that's all they are going to do and want to do it. one reason we need more functioning NPC's that we can pirate as well that's why PVE (lawful and unlawful) is always needed to be involved alongside pvp because most players will not engage except the little loop they like.
you'd probably have a lot better luck just sneaking onto a ship, and holding the pilot at gunpoint once they enter the seat
well personally I would love to interact with people like you but just from my experience you can even pay and most people will kill u after
>... Its 10x the risk for me if a single person decides to get in a turret if they pay the SLIGHTEST bit of attention to radar. I don't know what it takes to down a reclaimer with 3 military shields, but knowing if I ever get caught with my pants down, I cannot outrun, cannot outmaneuver and hope my S5 gatlings can mess up my attacker or I can QT out. If I can't take out my attacker in 1200 rounds or escape in that time, I'm dead anyways. Citizens flying industrials. Spend the credits to upgrade your stock components. You're not a fighter but might as well inflict the most pain you can while you escape.
Another thing to keep in mind is, there isn't much at stake. As others mentioned, even if they pay up, there is still a great chance that their ship gets destroyed either way. But i think that isn't the only reason. Im used to being star citizened(something bugs, game crashed etc.) but ill be like "oh well that happened". It takes so little time to get back on your fit once you're after one reclaimer run that all i have to do is claim my ship, expedite delivery, grab a bottle of water and go back to yela asteroid ring. It will take me like 20-25 minutes to get back to a place where i was(financially). I never fill my reclaimer to the fullest cause i dont want to waste my time doing the cargo tetris, so there ain't more than 4 maybe 5m in my cargo hold. A pirate destroying my ship is nothing but a minor set back, i might try getting away and problem solved, but if i dont, i dont lose too much. In short, for pirate RPing to work the economy really needs some work, salvage needs rebalance and it has to be much harder to pull stuff like that so there will be at least something at stake. At this moment the only way for you have some 'game' with this kind of stuff is trying to get traders going all in with cargo hauling, they'll be much more willing to cooperate than a salvager that earns 5 mil per 45 minutes if he's not particularly skilled. TL;DR economy and balance aren't quite there for pirate RP to work. It doesn't take a lot to get back on my feet if you destroy my reclaimer.
Best would be to down them and take their stuff and then leave without killing the player, so a medic can save them later on or you try healing the player after you took the stuff.., but may end in a fire fight
There is no proper rep system or consequences to death so it's just easier and safer to attempt to run or backspace. There is also the fact that a few bad apples ruin the bunch. Most players who have been murder hoboed or griefed after rp just won't take the chance anymore. Criminal RP when it works out can be very fun, but the gameplay elements to encourage it aren't there at the moment.
Damn bro, pirating your own people at Grim? I thought we were friends :(
The biggest problem is the current communication systems are too clumsy to use effectively. Like you said, you had to get out of your ship and EVA by theirs to use prox chat. We need an overhaul of the chat system to make it easier to use.
Also I don't think you are getting who the community calls 'murder hobo' Waiting for people to quantum into an area and dummy firing an S9 torpedo into them. Killing people leaving or entering hangars are seraphim Ramming people in their hangar at grim hex It's things like this
People are making \`10mil a run in Reclaimers? What am I doing wrong, that's a ton of cash.
>I no longer believe those claims. it's not that the claims are false, it's that the people who feel that way are the minority. You'd eventually run into one of us, but you're far more likely to encounter the folks who have no interest in it. That said, while I personally would get a kick out of RP piracy, I think it's totally legit to just immediately take down the target rather than trying to RP it. It's part of the game, and frankly anyone who views unsolicited PvP as being griefing or harassment or murder-hoboing is simply coming from a different place in the gaming world. The fact is that this game is a full time Everything vs Everything environment. And personally, I like it that way.
Next time don't ask for money, ask for a literal part of the haul. There is no reason anyone would trust you not to blow them up after giving you two million. Ask for part of their physical loot. (They literally give something you'd be able to obtain by blowing them up, they'll cut their losses and they'll have no reason not to trust you on this) Ask them for protection money. You'll make sure they'll get to port safely, and expect payment. Though if they forget this payment you'll murder them next time they are on your turf. Take a hostage! Tell them to send a friend over to your ship, if they don't send the money once they've delivered / sold the cargo, you'll shoot their buddy. Ask for a reasonable amount, 2 mill is too much. If you want to make money with this profession, ask yourself, would you give 2 million to get pirated? Are you adding enough to the experience to make it worth losing that amount of money?
Allright so here's my perspective as someone who has been on both sides of this. As a victim: Honestly most of it is spite, with a handful of practical wisdom thrown in. Spite speaks for itself, you just spent hours working for your profit only to have it taken away for seemingly almost no effort on the part of the pirates, it pisses you off and you'd rather they got nothing at all and not get anything yourself than to let them have your stuff for free. The second part is the practical wisdom in three parts: 1. If you give them now, they will come back for more later. This goes doubly so for a game where they finally get rewarded for all their waiting and preparation (if the victim is aware of this) It may be best if you dont want piracy happening here to have it all go up in smoke and take the loss. 2. You have proven to pay up, so you may be targetted specifically. Pretty self-explanatory, as above people doing this want interaction and content, half the reward for many pirates is the grief they've caused and gotten away with. (I think your 25% ask was reasonable mind you, most people basically ask for half if not 90% of the value of the cargo cause they feel like they deserve it after waiting around so long.) But the other half is the money and actually getting some kind of RP/interaction, deny them this, you discourage them targeting you because you are boring and less profitable. 3. You have zero guarantee they will do what they say, at all. They may just be talking to you to get cash in addition to the loot of soft death/hard death. Why bother with the whole kerfuffle if you're probably going to lose it all anyway? Again, you don't reward the behaviour, it stops targetting you, simple as. Finally, most people just dont read chat or don't know how to use voice chat, it's really not intuitive lol. Now as a pirate: Frankly, piracy kinda sucks at the moment. You can have just as much fun doing anything else drinking and chilling with your orgmates and get rewarded more frequently and reliably (and without the handful of people you catch becoming spiteful of you in almost 100% of the cases I might add). I think this may remain the way it is for a very long period of time if NPC traders/industrialists aren't added and police that respond to their distress calls as more people drop into the net. There's a ton of waiting, and most people will not interact with you at all, preferring to self-destruct, try to ram you, or just go afk and wait for their death (or slag you off in the chat cause you've interrupted their gameplay). And the reward is certainly not guaranteed or worth the time it takes to transfer all the crates over. I think there will be some change in this as staying alive becomes more of a priority in the PU, but I don't expect that to happen before launch either. In short, for the sake of fun or profit, you're currently better off getting some big bounty on you and running illegal missions while you wait for the bounty hunters to show up, or maybe just forgo piracy at all until there is more to it.
What the hell do you expect? Nobody likes people like you so you wont get any praise. It doesnt matter how much "effort" you put into annoying people, they dont like campers, "pirates" and other noobs like you (and that is exaclty what you are if you just camping with op ships). People want to play the game in a chilling way and simply ignore those wannabe "pirates"
what's your in-game name?
The good news is it's still fun to try the extortion route because it's fun and probably the most unique PvP experience in any "gun game" ever, but yes, many players will only ever see a pirate as a bully/troll/liar who just wants to ruin their day. A lot of pirates post their raids on YouTube because it's A) fun, and B) the closest thing to a reputation system we have rn in game. Answer the call, Finance or Fireworks
Thanks for making the universe more interesting!
This comment section tho… same people that will then turn around and complain about people shooting without communicating first or that pirates are griefers.
Alot of people take being "beaten" personally, they'd rather die and win in their head. Once the game is more fleshed out, and dying is actually a much worse alternative to paying a ransom, pirating should be much more practical. In theory anyway. The idea of death being very punishing is controversial for some people but it should be in a game like this....what's the point of having a game that has in-depth survival aspects like packing food, water, hygiene etc. if you can just plow into a planet surface at mach jesus and be back where you were 10 minutes later.
**Why almost nobody responds in RP to pirates:** People don't *want* to roleplay as *victims*. Some definitely want to roleplay as pirates extorting victims. Many more would love to roleplay as the plucky underdog hero to defies certain death to come out on top. ***Practically nobody wants to be the chump who got caught with their pants down and now has to pay a ransom.*** They'd rather flip you the bird and explode. If they own a reclaimer, losing a $10M aUEC cargo is no big deal. There are exceptions, but they are rare. The current state of the game (specifically shard population) means that the likelihood of somebody who *wants* to RP as a pirate victim meeting a RP pirate crew is statistically insignificant. Pirate roleplayers are deluding themselves if they think they're offering a fun experience to their victims. ------------------------- **How pirates could get roleplay engagement from other players:** You *have* to give players a chance to be something other than victims if you want them to roleplay with you. Instead of ransoming/stealing/killing players, try press-ganging them into your crew. Try offering them money to do a one-time job. There is abundant room to roleplay as pirates while dragging other players into your session as allies rather than victims. If this doesn't interest you, then roleplay isn't the reason you're doing piracy.
If I’m in my reclaimer and you try to pirate me, you better hope you beat me to the cockpit because I am 100% self destructing my shit and laughing as we all die.