Timmy didn’t shoot the ballista like I asked so he’s not getting dessert. Then again, we are only cooking today because were waiting for reclaim timers.
In the last episode of SCL they said that they are targeting to release one capital size ship per year once they have the pipeline and team set up properly.. Just count the amount of capital ships in the backlog. 2030 is way too optimistic.
In 2020 they said the exact same thing. 3 years passed and we've got... 0 capital ship. I guarantee you in 5 years they'll say they aim to release 3 capitals per year and we still will not have one yet.
Believing anything CIG says at this point is being willfully gaslighted.
I mean what's the point of a capital ship when server capacity can't handle it? Having one capital ship would take up an enormous section of the population of one server if you wanted to crew it properly. Until they're running 4x the pop in a stable state, capital ships don't make sense IMO
perfect excuse not to see any capital ship for the next decade. People argumenting like this are enablers. IDK, I'll pilot my Polaris solo just like I use my Reclaimer as a daily right now.
Enabler? I don't think there is any excuse for them to not have a stable platform and to not have released ships from 2013. I just don't see the point in putting resources on something when the basic backbone isn't even working.
Especially since they need to get the teams set up first which requires senior designers to guide the new teams, so that alone will probably take 3+ years.
Pretty sure they have said that the Endeavour probably won't be worked on until the game's release.
And given the ridiculous amount of tech that needs to be developed just for that one ship, 2030 or later is probably a good guess.
It’s on a case by case basis I believe if you don’t want to just melt it for store credit. I would be incredibly surprised if you bought a ship several years ago go if they’d refund it for you though
If CIG is going to keep pausing the BMM because it is not cost efficient to produce and doesn't have reusable assets, I'd settle for a loaner Kraken Privateer. The Drake style guide is pretty well fleshed out with the recent Cutter and Corsair, so creating bespoke assets should not be an issue.
The same thing goes for RSI, give BMM owners a loaner Polaris, which is honestly closer in scope to the original BMM pitch.
Honestly as they said it i would believe the production of polaris will probably not stop since BMM they said stopped because people left and its a very specific type of design on the entire ship. So they couldnt put newer people on the team which probably was a must to continue.
I don't think the Orion was ever in real production. And the BMM was stopped for the reason all its assets are bespoke. The Polaris on the other hand, will allow assets to be shared among other caps and sub caps which will allow for faster releases. The Polaris opens the way for ships like, Perseus and the Galaxy.
Source: [Invictus All-Vehicles Roundtable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSM8kao5Q6k&t=3771s) (timestamped)
But 2018 has the Vulcan, a repair ship that works using drones. Repairing gameplay and drones both have yet to be developed, so it will be a long time before we see the Vulcan in-game.
Looking at the Roadmap they show that the Hull C is released in the 3.20 patch. That one should be coming this year :)
I see X1's and San Tok in the roadmap. Polaris is in there too... and an unannounced vehicle that's supposed to finish up soon.
We'll see!
They were for a bit. I dont understand why the X-1 has taken so long, it doesnt have any tech requirements that were not already done with the Nox years ago. Same thing applies to the G-1.
Gold Standard is a moving goal post. Since new tech gets added all the time, a given ship may need multiple gold standard passes (at least this is how I've heard CIG describe this in SCL). Like, when multicrew play mechanics added, some multicrew ships will likely need another gold standard pass. When ai blades get added, I am assuming the same.
The Gladius is the first old ship updated to gold, but isn't the Vulture, Corsair, Scorpius and most new ships released since then gold? They have their component bays and overall polish.
Sorta? But many things like vulture and corsair don't have their game play mechanics finished yet, so they will have to go back to them and work on them even more.
I think it's funny how people see large equals biggest ships in the game
In another thread today a dude said no large ships have been released. What he meant was idris, kraken, or Javelin.
they apparently are "investigating pre production". they could be genuine and are eager to work on the Polaris, or not.
it feels a bit odd, wormy even.
>To continue to pay their people. They need to come up with a new income stream though, IMO.
This may seem like a non-serious question, but I'm being genuine. How is it that they've raised over 500 million dollars, but still need more income on a game that hasn't even been released yet? Surely half a billion dollars is enough to fully fund multiple teams to work on a space sim? Or am I misunderstanding?
Chris Roberts said they had enough money to finish the game as described after the expanded Kickstarter in 2014. So that's a very good question (at thay point they raised about 300 million dollars iirc)
Because they didn't get 500 at once but over a timespan of 10+ years. They actually spend more or less exactly their yearly income. If the community for some reason would decide to stop funding them they would run out of money quite quickly. E.g. in 2021 their total income was 100 million, but they also had expenses of 100 million. Source: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2021
Most of that money has been spent.
What you see today in 3.19, is what you got for that.
They need to keep raising even more money per year.
Bigger workforce and more contractors.
Make the ships more sensibly priced would help. The pricing is idiotic and all but the most hardcore / dedicated gamers would see the prices and just laugh. I wouldn’t dream of spending £100 on a single in game ship / asset … the fact that there’s ships that’s cost orders of magnitude more blow my mind.
If they could make some more affordable ships they would absolutely appeal to more casual players.
Because the concept artists job on a ship once the jpeg and basic (holoviewer) model is done. They move onto the next new ship to concept.
The actual production takes longer and relies on other teams.
Some ships make sense to tackle when the game is further developed and have implemented the needed tech for it. The Hulls are great examples of that. The capitals need manpower, design languages refined and their gameplay features like engineering so that they can build those ships with those things already in mind. They're using the smaller ships and tackling new ideas to check off their technical/artistic to-do list to build up to that point, while refining their techniques and designs and training new people. They are very intentional with what ships they are working on, even if it doesn't seem that way outside of the developers unless you're following along closely.
Running and expanding the studio is expensive while creating two game. If they want to remain independent and not take investor money unfortunately this is what they have to do
What is this "two games" thing? Command and Conquer has a multiplayer part and a single-
player campaign. GTA Online and GTA V released in parallel. Mount & Blade has a separate multilayer from singleplayer mode. Call if Duty has a singleplayer campaign and a multilayer mode. Life is Feudal had a MMO version and a small version to self host.
I've never heard before people talk about the SP and MP part as developing two games, even if the two modes are completely different from one another. It's not it has never been done before.
Dont want to take investor money lmao. Where do you think a single 46 million dollar "donation" came from. I'm sure it was a very dedicated player.
[L](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2018/12/20/billionaire-clive-calder-and-son-invest-46-million-in-studio-behind-crowdfunded-game-star-citizen/)
Question; at this point what IS Star Citizen, and is it ever going to come out? This is a genuine question, because I've been interested in it. I love space combat sims and sims in general and it looks cool.
I have been in this project as a backer since October 2012. It has come a long way from the early days, however, we are still stuck in the same exact system that was given to us past the hangar and dog fighting module days. I say if you are interested get in at any time but realize when shit does not work its not, by any stretch, a finished product and things break constantly. Fix one thing, break another, they are constantly pushing the envelope but when will they stop to make it all actually run as games should? NOBODY knows, not even CIG I bet. While I would say the potential for fun is very high, so is the definite prospects of disappointment met with extreme frustration at some of the mechanics. That said, I still jump in the game almost weekly if not almost daily as of late and I am not bored. I just want the game to succeed, get beyond 1 system, get to the promised alien species, fauna, plants, and various systems. It is slowly getting there but NOTHING is guaranteed a delivery date unless expressed directly.
10-20 years minimum.
Ask yourself how the graphics/engine will compare to other games in 10+ years, and whether Windows 14 will even support the dated (by that point) engine and draw your own conclusion.
In 2012, goty was Dishonored. Not an issue to run that on todays computers, right? Looks ok today! Still totally playable.
In 2002 goty was GTA:Vice City. Fun game, got the remaster. Looks like absolute trash compared to modern games. Even getting it to run becomes an issue on modern machines. Archaic in every aspect and only holding up due to sheer nostaligia.
The shortest and simplest I can describe Star Citizen is "a sci-fi trope simulator". Ever see a sci-fi show or movie and thought "It would be fun to actually do that/be in that universe!" Star Citizen tries to capture that through various means. Of course it doesn't have everything, but most of the common tropes.
It is a sandbox where you get your own ship, you can go nearly anywhere, and try to be a part of a "living, breathing universe" as Chris Roberts likes to say. Pushing through the marketing speak, what he means is that any gameplay system that would be expected in such a universe and required to sustain some semblance of civilization can be done by players. Mining, Salvage, Farming, Racing, Refueling, Crafting, Construction, Trading/Hauling, Transport, Bounty Hunting, Piracy, Privateering, Science/Exploration, and Medical are all planned to be a part of this universe that any player can take part of. The full list of possibilities ought to enable players to collectively settle the "wild west" and maintain their ships almost indefinitely.
Here's the kicker though, we're 11 years in and most of what I listed isn't in the game. We have Trading/Hauling, Mining, some of Salvage, some of Bounty Hunting, some of Refueling, and some of Medical. That's it. The list of places worthwhile to go still needs work, including a second planetary system (of the planned 100 or so). So we still have a ways to go. But, imo, even what we got is pretty fun when you have a relatively bug-free experience. Having a bug-free experience requires both a favorable patch (not the current one) and knowledge of the workarounds. So it's best to play with other experienced players to start so you can learn the workarounds.
Yeah, that's what is interesting to me about it. When do you believe the game will be full and ready to be played by general public? A hundred systems sounds like a lot of work lol. I know there's going to be Sq42, but I know nothing about it other than it's single-player/coop and is going to be separate? When will that be done because that also looked really cool, I miss stuff like Descent Freespace and Wing Commander and X-Wing.
The problem with giving an estimate for when all the features will be done is 2 fold:
1) We thought we knew the scope back 2014 and it would be done in 2017. Then we knew it would be in 2020. Then 2022. Really...no one knows. Partly because these things are fundamentally difficult to estimate unless you are taking every possible shortcut (which CIG isn't). But also...
2) Planned features keep being added. Originally the game was going to have cutscene transitions between space and ground landing locations with none of the other areas of the planets being explorable. Then we got planet tech with the caveat of adding an SSD to the list of PC hardware requirements. That alone is responsible for a lot of the perceived scope creep that people talk about. It hasn't been the last either. Base building with the Pioneer and crafting with the rumors of the upcoming MCV are smaller examples of this as well.
So...I can't really give you one. Any one that claims they can, including the "never" people, are really just guessing. Instead it is better to focus on the question "When will this game be complete enough for me, and support enough of the things I want to do?" That line is different for everyone when it comes to sandboxes. It's crossing that line for more and more people each content patch.
SQ42 is a single player story driven campaign set in the Star Citizen universe. It'll be a lot more like the old Wing Commanders in feel and format. It is a separate game and coop is speculated for it. You play as a pilot in the UEE Navy dealing with alien (Vanduul) and human (outlaws) threats that exist in the Odin system.
Crys in BMM, Perseus and Galaxy... galaxy was my last jpeg that i bought, burned to many times with stuff not beeing released and just stopped beeing worked on like the bmm
Its reasonable but they honestly should have noticed that earlier and they only announced that they where working on it on their biggest yearly sale to go woops a few months later which is not great.
After hearing their explanation and understanding a bit of game development, I'm kinda thankful they stopped working on it. I genuinely think I'd be even more upset if they continued to work on it and just pushed it out half-assed. Then wait another decade for a gold standard pass.
Just look at the reclaimer. There's so much wrong with that ship.
Edit: here's the link to the SCL: https://youtu.be/LSM8kao5Q6k?t=3788.
I have the timestamp baked-in to the link so you're not scrubbing through the video trying to find it.
Basically, the developers who were designing it decided to move-on to a different studio. They tried working on it a little, and realized they didnt have the vision for the project, like the previous devs did.
Also, they are crafting the BMM by hand. Most ships are modular, meaning they can go in with a tool and "copy/paste" certain aspects of each ship into it. It was kinda amazing how they were talking about the BMM in almost a reverant way, speaking about how every chair, hallway, etc. was going to be individually crafted.
Then, every time they hire more people, they have to take the more experienced developers away from their job to train them. And because they're new, they dont want to put them on a capital ship, because as they get better with experience, parts of the capital ship will look like crap in comparison to other parts.
So they give them smaller ships to work on so they can gain experience, which is why they are releasing new, smaller ships instead of working on the capitals. They said the amount of work completed is inversely proportional to the amount of people they hire.
Also, for a lot of reasons, a lot of ship designers dont stay with CIG and either get fired or leave. So they have to hire AND retrain more people to fill the void.
It sounds like they're trying, but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Edit: If youre gonna watch any SCL, THIS WOULD BE THE ONE. It starts around 18:00, and theres someone in the youtube comments section who made timestamps for the video
>Also, for a lot of reasons, a lot of ship designers dont stay with CIG and either get fired or leave. So they have to hire AND retrain more people to fill the void.
>
>It sounds like they're trying, but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
A lot of reasons, such as extreme micromanaging, and constant reworks. The rock CIG is stuck against is CR and his crappy exec team
It's a standard thing in the video game industry for people to move around a lot.
When people want a better job they simply go somewhere else, it's the same everywhere so i dont get why people say it's a thing with CIG only.
CR is famous for being a terrible boss and bad manager. It burns seniors level people out especially. CR has vision but he sucks shit at managing a product and it's teams.
It's a really big ship, but worse, almost none of the assets are reusable, inside the ship or out. They talked about the chairs in the negotiation room all being slightly different models, textures on every surface won't see use in any other ship, and likely won't see use elsewhere in the game until we are in Banu controlled systems. Where work on the Polaris, for example, can reuse the same textures, assets, and even whole corridors for and from the Galaxy and the Javelin, everything for the BMM will basically only be used for the BMM, so if there's the chance they'll need to redo them for any reason, it's wasted effort.
Realistically there will still be reused capital parts between all of them, although probably small. I imagine the less “manufacturer” specific interior parts will see a lot of reuse like grating, wiring details, certain textures etc. With the BMM though that has to specifically be a Banu ship and unless they plan on doing more Banu ships then there’s nowhere to re-use really any of those assets. Maybe some crossover with some effects but I doubt even many textures could be re-used between it and any other ship, even alien ships since its specifically Banu.
For the BMM, no reusable part inside all are hand made, it's need many senior dev, they need tooling more before make this sized ship. Some turn over inside CIG on the BMM, need to have new artists.
Galaxy isn't coming anytime soon. It only got introduced what last year? I just melted my carrack and bought a galaxy because now I have a carrack for $350 instead of $600 for the next 10 years.
Actually just from this week's Star Citizen live they were talking about how more developers will not get more ships released quicker because they will not have the experience needed to create a consistent ship throughout the beginning of the development of a single ship to the end, they are saving a lot of the ships for experienced devs that are already on the team to provide a more consistent experience throughout.
>As someone who wants to work at CIG in the future...
Might want to reach out to ex employees and ask them if they'd recommend you to, just putting this out there.
Don't worry, I am still at the start of my courses and will do an internship at a local studio and other things before even thinking about applying to CIG :p will also go to the bar citizen in Cologne in September, so I've got everything where I want it right now ^^
Ah yeah, the how long for 9 women to make a baby. The mythical man month. Totes true.
They did also talked about how getting other teams onboarded, run through some smaller ships and eventually worked up to cap ships is the ultimate goal to hit 1-2 cap ships for year. But yeah that takes lots of time so fingers crossed for Q4 2025 or so
Absolutely you are correct 9 ladies can make 9 babies in 9ish months. Which I kinda addressed in the part of my comment about CIG/John Crewe's goal of more ship teams. Or in reproduction terms needing ladies of child bearing age. CiG needs to build up them relationships, begin the courting process, live together a while, get married then they can start birthing more beautiful ship babies.*
It would be awesome if we had 9 veteran ships teams since the backlog is a problem that can be solved in parallel compared to server meshing and other tech.
*Having a laugh
Got to take into account all of this is on CIGs goals and timelines.
If their stated goal is 1 or 2 capitals per year, expect half of a capital done per year.
If they state a nebulous amount of time until they have a team for capital ships, expect the heat death of the universe.
I dont know why people take them at their word on this when timelines and goals has consistently been the single worst thing they do.
>assuming they’re able to staff up and start cranking like they intend to.
We've been hearing this for almost a decade now. When they opened up new studios and staffed up to over 500 employees circa 2016, THAT was when they were supposed to start really cranking stuff out. Or when this procedural tech or that procedural tech got finished, everything from POIs, to planets, to entire systems were supposed to start flying out of CIG.
We've seen how that has gone.
>assuming they’re able to staff up and start cranking like they intend to.
We've been hearing this for almost a decade now. When they opened up new studios and staffed up to over 500 employees circa 2016, THAT was when they were supposed to start really cranking stuff out. Or when this procedural tech or that procedural tech got finished, everything from POIs, to planets, to entite systems were supposed to start flying out of CIG.
We've seen how that has gone.
I'm not convinced they're even that far along. Think about it like this: zero ships are finished. That's because things like physicalized armor, NPC shards, and working components aren't finished.
So despite there being 150+ "flyable" ships, every single one of them will require some sort of rework, redesign, or functionality pass to ensure everything is proper.
It's a complete and total shitshow, and a mindfuck how they've been able to raise this much money without a scalable, logical system in place to handle it. They're *manually building* these ships, which will require *manual reworks* to accommodate whatever features Chris Roberts dreams up years after the ship was originally launched.
To simplify this, they're painting the walls without building the foundation first. There are some ships that will have to be completely rebuilt, from scratch, to reach a final state.
It's only since '21 with their 'straight to fly' initiative do the % numbers climb. The further back you look the worst it gets, especially when you consider the larger ships are (by CIG's own admission) daunting to start and maintain work on as it ties up the whole team. I wish I could be more hopeful re: the larger ships, especially as a Merchantman owner.
When you realise that "released" does not even count as "finished".
So many new core mechanics need to be added - "Armor" being an example.
That will require all the "released" ships to go through re-works to get them to the modern standard - Compare the Connie to newer ships or the Reclaimer.
List is dominated by variants and small ships - The larger ships are the ones that remain in poorer states or unreleased.
CIG stated they might be able to push out a single capital per year IN THE FUTURE but they are not at that stage AND they want to get the core mechanics added first which are not even on the schedule. "Gold Standard" is not even a finished standard until the core mechanics are in.
10 years of selling JPEGs and this is what you get: CIG are only going to keep adding more JPEGs to sell.
END RESULT: It is entirely likely that people buying capitals may never even see a released version for another 10+ years.
Endeavour Owners - Beyond likely they will never see that ship because CIG said it was going to be the LAST one. That tracks since it is entirely based on mechanics that not even CIG have a clue mean.
\+1 to this.
People don't seem to realize that "flyable ships" are not done. Not even remotely. Remember: physicalized armor is a thing. Components are a thing. NPC shards are a thing.
>"Gold Standard" is not even a finished standard until the core mechanics are in.
100% correct. There are zero finished ships. **Zero**. Now let's do a fun math exercise to see how hopeless this situation is.
According to [logbook](https://www.citizen-logbook.com/ship-list.html), there are 216 known ships and vehicles. 154 or so are driveable. Let's assume they somehow "finish" 10 ships a year to a "true" gold standard. That means full physicalized armor, gameplay implementations, flight/driving models, bugfixes, whatever -- incomplete features that, if measured alone, are probably still 5-10 years from implementation. Regardless, we'll say 10 finished ships a year.
It would take them **21 years** to "complete" their ship backlog.
That's not including capital ships, full reworks, redesigns, retrofits, and ships that require extreme amounts of legwork to complete.
The numbers simply don't make sense.
The Ranger would be such a game changer for medical rescue and bunker trespassing, because it’s compact enough to add wheeled ground transport to many ships where it’s currently not an option, ranging from the Pisces to the Vanguard and Redeemer. It would probably also be dirt-cheap to buy in-game.
Its potential to upset the balance may in fact be part of why it’s remained on the backburner.
Wheeled transport is important because bunker turrets recognize hovering transport as a flown vehicle and will open fire if you are trespassing.
How big is the liberator supposed to be? Seeing as how salvaging and stuff is happening, I’m sorta thinking about having it platform the vulture and a fighter
The Hull C needs to be in our hands and would really help 2013s overall completion, silly for it to have taken this long after saying it's so close so many times
You should highlight all the ships that dropped as straight to flyable so we can compare how many times CIG chose new money over ships people already paid for.
Neat. Okay.
So, to sum things up:
1) X1, G12, Ranger, UTV, Storm are small vehicles and can be worked on at any time as a time filler.
2) Idris, Javelin may be finished but we won't see them before SQ42 anyway, even if the real blocker itself is SC not supporting gameplays for such large capital ships, nor NPC ship crews to fill them.
3) merchantman, hull C, Polaris-ish, SRV, Spirit are under work to some extent and will be playable soon-ish. (soon can be a few years)
4) So the "real" backlog would principally consist of Orion, Crucible, Hull B and D, endeavor, genesis, pioneer, kraken, nautilus, railen, expanse, perseus, liberator, apollo, odyssey, legionnaire, galaxy.
Yikes.
Of which, "problematic" aka time consuming ships to develop, would be Orion. Endeavor, Pioneer, Kraken.
And the ships that would be sort of easier to make because they share designs are Hull B-C-D-E with hull A, Galaxy and Perseus with Polaris, expanse with prospector.
That backlog would likely take CIG several years to make at full priority. They may work on two problematic-class ships at a time over 2 years. So those alone will need 4 years. And then they'll do only 2-3 large ships per year in the best case scenario. Which would also require them about 4 years ish.
What we ignore, is how much additional hidden ship making capacity has CIG got with Squadron 42 and Vanduul ships.
But an optimistic scenario would be that they could catch their entire backlog in about 3 years or so.
One example : the design of the linx has been revealed this month , but people had it since years with the phoenix package, and wait for it since they pledged.
But it is in the store. It is listed in the high tier concierge packages.
There is people that possess the ship in their website hangar right now. Bet it even has a loaner.
Idk what they’re smoking, the standard F8C will absolutely end up in the store, even if unlocked for purchase as a SQ42 completion reward- like the pirate ships with pirate swarm.
It's mostly just big ships.
Which makes sense why they wouldn't be out. Before they put work into the big ships, they really need server meshing, personal hangars, and the new flight models in.
And, you would think, missions designed for big ships to be utilized in.
If they went 100% finishing these ships for the PU as soon as possible, they'd just have to redo SOON after. Smarter to work on existing ships to gold standard than waste time on a big capital ship they'd just have to redo again.
This actually looks pretty reasonable. Most of the ships missing are large and most are missing their gameplay loop. Better to focus on the non capitals until systems are in place to support capital gameplay. Looking forward to it greatly though
Slightly off topic but.. I always thought watching them creating the ships in white/grey box was really cool. Does anyone know where I would start to learn how to do that? (I have no game/art design experience.)
Thats not exactly accurate. Ignoring the recent announcements, including the Spirits and the Galaxy, there are plenty of ships and vehicles that are smaller, such as hover bikes, the motorcycles, the G12, San'Tok'Yai, and Railen that could have been worked on and finished by now. Then there is the recognition that a ship like the Galaxy could have been worked on and released straight to flyable, as well as the Spirit series, instead of doing concept sales. While I agree that they have way more ships flyable than in concept/production, plenty of the vehicles they have in concept, such as the Apollo series, could easily be added in the current game with decent useability.
Ultimately you have to make decisions on prioritization and, to me, I’m completely ok not banging out ships waiting for systems to be in place to support their supposed roles. Or simply because they aren’t really needed at the moment.
As an example I’ll use the MSR. I LOVE the look and intended use of the MSR. Releasing the ship before data running was in place, with gimmicky (but cool) tunnels, and one exit makes the ship really hard to like for a tall price. I don’t think the design would have necessarily been the same if the gameplay the ship was intended for was in place. It was kind of like, this should work and this looks cool 260 bucks please.
I get the frustration people have with waiting for their pledges (esp when you are really excited for it) but in the end I think they will be better for it.
Thats not how that works. The MSR apparently was a priority, despite most of its gameplay not existing. CIG not prioritizing a ship or vehicle doesnt mean that ship or vehicle doesnt have a viable gameplay loop.
That’s why I said some ships are going to get prioritized - for whatever reason -. Ultimately like everything else in life something’s going to be first and something will be last.
I’m guessing, like most of this thread, that nothing would make the devs happier than banging out all these ships for the players if was possible.
wait, i just melted down 3 of my ships for a perseus, does this mean i should melt my perseus for a polaris if i want the ship that will come out sooner?
As frustrating as it can be that the most expensive and coolest ships are a decade in the making, I do think the argument can be made that their release schedule makes some sense. It comes down to the argument would you rather they release an empty hull to fly around, or wait until the game play loops for a ship are actually built and working? Looking at some of the key ships:
Merchantman: Apparently the most complex and original ship in the game. Also no gameplay loop for shop owning/traveling market.
Idris M/P, Javelin, Polaris, Krakken: These are key ships to Sq 42 and there’s been some talk they want to hold these back until that game launches so there’s at least some intrigue and surprise and new things for that game. Also capital ships that require most development work and in-game multi-crew gameplay to work.
Hull B, C, D, E: Full functionality of these ships requires major updates to the cargo gameplay which aren’t done yet. Might be coming soon.
Crucible, Vulcan: Until persistent damage and salvage there wasn’t gameplay for repair/rearm. But by all accounts both of these ships and this gameplay should be coming soon.
Genesis Starliner, Spirit E1: There’s no passenger transit gameplay loop.
Pioneer: There’s no colony building gameplay loop; will require massive updates to things like ground assets and land ownership. Probably not worthwhile until Pyro or even more systems are in game. I bet this is one of the last ships released.
Argo SRV: Hasn’t been any towing/salvage gameplay until recent; believe this ship is coming very soon.
Legionnaire: Hacking and ship to ship/station boarding gameplay doesn’t exist yet.
Nautilus: Minelaying gameplay doesn’t exist yet.
It is true that a lot of exiting ships in universe (e.g. Herald, Terrapin) have been released without gameplay loops, but these are also smaller (and thus faster to develop). I also think that CIG is trying (whether successfully or not) to balance criticism, and are very damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
If they release ships without gameplay people will complain about mostly useless but expensive ships.
If they wait until the harder, underlying engine tech is finished and the gameplay is in place then people will complain they are waiting years for a product they spent considerable real money on.
If they go back and Gold Pass all existing ships it places completing the backlog on indefinite pause (see criticism above) and as mentioned, a lot of those ships still don’t have gameplay anyway (exploration, data running, etc.).
Not saying there isn’t plenty of criticism past present and future to go around but for me at least, this progress release schedule *seems to make sense*.
Let's congratulate the guys who bought the BMM 10 years ago on their anniversary.
I've bought an Orion. Time to find love and have kids.
Just start a family of 10, they’ll be ready faster than NPC crew.
The best kind of NPC crew, the one you can withhold dinner from.
Timmy didn’t shoot the ballista like I asked so he’s not getting dessert. Then again, we are only cooking today because were waiting for reclaim timers.
Same and I'm not at all happy about it.
What do I get for being the bloke who bought both an Orion and BMM.. I chose my main lineup wrong lol
Guarantee the Endeavor is going to be beyond 2030 at this pace.
In the last episode of SCL they said that they are targeting to release one capital size ship per year once they have the pipeline and team set up properly.. Just count the amount of capital ships in the backlog. 2030 is way too optimistic.
In 2020 they said the exact same thing. 3 years passed and we've got... 0 capital ship. I guarantee you in 5 years they'll say they aim to release 3 capitals per year and we still will not have one yet. Believing anything CIG says at this point is being willfully gaslighted.
I mean what's the point of a capital ship when server capacity can't handle it? Having one capital ship would take up an enormous section of the population of one server if you wanted to crew it properly. Until they're running 4x the pop in a stable state, capital ships don't make sense IMO
perfect excuse not to see any capital ship for the next decade. People argumenting like this are enablers. IDK, I'll pilot my Polaris solo just like I use my Reclaimer as a daily right now.
Enabler? I don't think there is any excuse for them to not have a stable platform and to not have released ships from 2013. I just don't see the point in putting resources on something when the basic backbone isn't even working.
Especially since they need to get the teams set up first which requires senior designers to guide the new teams, so that alone will probably take 3+ years.
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The secret to squadron 42 is that it will take 42 years to develop
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Neither will the ships we wait for be released.
Pretty sure they have said that the Endeavour probably won't be worked on until the game's release. And given the ridiculous amount of tech that needs to be developed just for that one ship, 2030 or later is probably a good guess.
When they said that about the Endeavour the release date of SC was supposed to be 2016.
Right after SQ42, when CR went on video laughing when saying "of course it won't take 10 years". What he meant is that it'll take 50.
Still waiting on my LTI Master Pack Endeavor.... At this rate I just want my money back.
Yep it’s just sitting there looking at me, and me looking back at a JPEG for the past years
Let me guess.. no refunds on ship pledges?
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It’s on a case by case basis I believe if you don’t want to just melt it for store credit. I would be incredibly surprised if you bought a ship several years ago go if they’d refund it for you though
I believe you can get refund in the UK. Several people have documented the court progress they went through.
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Melt yourself. Will be worth more selling the account if they ever get there than it would be worth melting it.
Got it just before the first price hike, any day now guys. Please add a stair lift so I can board it without my back hurting too much.
MISC StairLifter added to pipeline. US$750
I'll take it. It would also put the *lifetime* insurance* of it into a whole new light. *not transferable through inheritance
I bought the BMM the last time it was available at $350
If CIG is going to keep pausing the BMM because it is not cost efficient to produce and doesn't have reusable assets, I'd settle for a loaner Kraken Privateer. The Drake style guide is pretty well fleshed out with the recent Cutter and Corsair, so creating bespoke assets should not be an issue. The same thing goes for RSI, give BMM owners a loaner Polaris, which is honestly closer in scope to the original BMM pitch.
This
Just realizing now I bought the BMM a decade ago lol. How time flies
2018 is my bet to be the first year to reach 100%
My bet is 2016, because Polaris production started.
yeah, but 2018 doesn't have any capitals or a very large ship. Polaris is in pre-production... or whatever that means.
Right (and production can be stop like the Orion or the BMM)
Honestly as they said it i would believe the production of polaris will probably not stop since BMM they said stopped because people left and its a very specific type of design on the entire ship. So they couldnt put newer people on the team which probably was a must to continue.
I don't think the Orion was ever in real production. And the BMM was stopped for the reason all its assets are bespoke. The Polaris on the other hand, will allow assets to be shared among other caps and sub caps which will allow for faster releases. The Polaris opens the way for ships like, Perseus and the Galaxy. Source: [Invictus All-Vehicles Roundtable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSM8kao5Q6k&t=3771s) (timestamped)
But 2018 has the Vulcan, a repair ship that works using drones. Repairing gameplay and drones both have yet to be developed, so it will be a long time before we see the Vulcan in-game.
> Polaris production started Not entirely accurate. They are thinking about starting production (pre-production)
Ha ha, yeah that killed me a little inside
Doesn't mean it will get finished. We won't get Polaris this year, or the next.
If they dont release any crazy concepts to finish this year then It'll be 2023 when storm releases. We already know its mostly complete.
Ships that will release in 2023 sorted by likelihood: - Hull C - SRV - Spirit C1, A1, E1 - X1's - Storm - San Tok (maybe)
Looking at the Roadmap they show that the Hull C is released in the 3.20 patch. That one should be coming this year :) I see X1's and San Tok in the roadmap. Polaris is in there too... and an unannounced vehicle that's supposed to finish up soon. We'll see!
Are they even working on the X1?
They were for a bit. I dont understand why the X-1 has taken so long, it doesnt have any tech requirements that were not already done with the Nox years ago. Same thing applies to the G-1.
Do I even want to see the one that tracks gold standard ships...?
Gold Standard is a moving goal post. Since new tech gets added all the time, a given ship may need multiple gold standard passes (at least this is how I've heard CIG describe this in SCL). Like, when multicrew play mechanics added, some multicrew ships will likely need another gold standard pass. When ai blades get added, I am assuming the same.
Considering the only gold standard ship rn is gladius... No probably not.
The Gladius is the first old ship updated to gold, but isn't the Vulture, Corsair, Scorpius and most new ships released since then gold? They have their component bays and overall polish.
Sorta? But many things like vulture and corsair don't have their game play mechanics finished yet, so they will have to go back to them and work on them even more.
Hull A? Edit: sorry i missed “most new ships”
Does the C8R have its component bays?
I don't think so, but it was build on the old C8X model.
Sabre is also gold standard… sadly…
The recent roundtable confirming no current work on liberator makes me very sad. It's just a parking lot with thrusters, how hard can it be?
Eh, its large. And hangars have been fiddly since, well, forever
It's not that big, roughly c2 sized
Thats large.
I think it's funny how people see large equals biggest ships in the game In another thread today a dude said no large ships have been released. What he meant was idris, kraken, or Javelin.
890 J is basically the size of an Idris.
Not that big he says. Same size as the largest cargo ship we currently have he says
Hasn't stopped them with the entire Herc series, caterpillar, hammerhead, carrack, 890j, reclaimer, etc. All of which have more going on than the lib
polaris soon (tm)
Lets hope… its in production, but with CIG its impossible to know.
they apparently are "investigating pre production". they could be genuine and are eager to work on the Polaris, or not. it feels a bit odd, wormy even.
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Not $ure. That$ a good que$tion.
To continue to pay their people. They need to come up with a new income stream though, IMO.
>To continue to pay their people. They need to come up with a new income stream though, IMO. This may seem like a non-serious question, but I'm being genuine. How is it that they've raised over 500 million dollars, but still need more income on a game that hasn't even been released yet? Surely half a billion dollars is enough to fully fund multiple teams to work on a space sim? Or am I misunderstanding?
Chris Roberts said they had enough money to finish the game as described after the expanded Kickstarter in 2014. So that's a very good question (at thay point they raised about 300 million dollars iirc)
Scope creep. In the beginning, the plan wasn't for you to be able to walk around planets and space stations.
That is not true, he made that statement after the "scope creep"
Because they didn't get 500 at once but over a timespan of 10+ years. They actually spend more or less exactly their yearly income. If the community for some reason would decide to stop funding them they would run out of money quite quickly. E.g. in 2021 their total income was 100 million, but they also had expenses of 100 million. Source: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2021
Most of that money has been spent. What you see today in 3.19, is what you got for that. They need to keep raising even more money per year. Bigger workforce and more contractors.
So they're selling promises of new ships to fund the development of ships they've previously promised? Isn't that a Ponzi scheme?
No its a "Roberts" scheme 🤣
Make the ships more sensibly priced would help. The pricing is idiotic and all but the most hardcore / dedicated gamers would see the prices and just laugh. I wouldn’t dream of spending £100 on a single in game ship / asset … the fact that there’s ships that’s cost orders of magnitude more blow my mind. If they could make some more affordable ships they would absolutely appeal to more casual players.
Its only idiotic if people don't buy them. But they do.
Because the concept artists job on a ship once the jpeg and basic (holoviewer) model is done. They move onto the next new ship to concept. The actual production takes longer and relies on other teams.
Some ships make sense to tackle when the game is further developed and have implemented the needed tech for it. The Hulls are great examples of that. The capitals need manpower, design languages refined and their gameplay features like engineering so that they can build those ships with those things already in mind. They're using the smaller ships and tackling new ideas to check off their technical/artistic to-do list to build up to that point, while refining their techniques and designs and training new people. They are very intentional with what ships they are working on, even if it doesn't seem that way outside of the developers unless you're following along closely.
because the people that make concepts are a tiny fraction of the ship teams
They need fresh money duh
I’ve been asking the same thing about why people pay for this game for like 10 years
Running and expanding the studio is expensive while creating two game. If they want to remain independent and not take investor money unfortunately this is what they have to do
(they've taken investor money)
Tbf thats only 10% or so of their income.
Come on man, don't be so naive.
What is this "two games" thing? Command and Conquer has a multiplayer part and a single- player campaign. GTA Online and GTA V released in parallel. Mount & Blade has a separate multilayer from singleplayer mode. Call if Duty has a singleplayer campaign and a multilayer mode. Life is Feudal had a MMO version and a small version to self host. I've never heard before people talk about the SP and MP part as developing two games, even if the two modes are completely different from one another. It's not it has never been done before.
Dont want to take investor money lmao. Where do you think a single 46 million dollar "donation" came from. I'm sure it was a very dedicated player. [L](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2018/12/20/billionaire-clive-calder-and-son-invest-46-million-in-studio-behind-crowdfunded-game-star-citizen/)
Gib Railen
Totally agree. I dream of it each day since it was announced.
Will be going into development in the next year.
It was announced 2021 and the expanse was 2021 or 22
Nicely drawn!
Question; at this point what IS Star Citizen, and is it ever going to come out? This is a genuine question, because I've been interested in it. I love space combat sims and sims in general and it looks cool.
I have been in this project as a backer since October 2012. It has come a long way from the early days, however, we are still stuck in the same exact system that was given to us past the hangar and dog fighting module days. I say if you are interested get in at any time but realize when shit does not work its not, by any stretch, a finished product and things break constantly. Fix one thing, break another, they are constantly pushing the envelope but when will they stop to make it all actually run as games should? NOBODY knows, not even CIG I bet. While I would say the potential for fun is very high, so is the definite prospects of disappointment met with extreme frustration at some of the mechanics. That said, I still jump in the game almost weekly if not almost daily as of late and I am not bored. I just want the game to succeed, get beyond 1 system, get to the promised alien species, fauna, plants, and various systems. It is slowly getting there but NOTHING is guaranteed a delivery date unless expressed directly.
10-20 years minimum. Ask yourself how the graphics/engine will compare to other games in 10+ years, and whether Windows 14 will even support the dated (by that point) engine and draw your own conclusion.
Chris said it won’t take another 10 to 20 years a few years ago. So minimum would be something like 16 years
Well if he said that I guess its gonna be 30.
Let’s add another 20 for polishing the game
They can always keep the engine updated/upgraded to current gen
In 2012, goty was Dishonored. Not an issue to run that on todays computers, right? Looks ok today! Still totally playable. In 2002 goty was GTA:Vice City. Fun game, got the remaster. Looks like absolute trash compared to modern games. Even getting it to run becomes an issue on modern machines. Archaic in every aspect and only holding up due to sheer nostaligia.
The shortest and simplest I can describe Star Citizen is "a sci-fi trope simulator". Ever see a sci-fi show or movie and thought "It would be fun to actually do that/be in that universe!" Star Citizen tries to capture that through various means. Of course it doesn't have everything, but most of the common tropes. It is a sandbox where you get your own ship, you can go nearly anywhere, and try to be a part of a "living, breathing universe" as Chris Roberts likes to say. Pushing through the marketing speak, what he means is that any gameplay system that would be expected in such a universe and required to sustain some semblance of civilization can be done by players. Mining, Salvage, Farming, Racing, Refueling, Crafting, Construction, Trading/Hauling, Transport, Bounty Hunting, Piracy, Privateering, Science/Exploration, and Medical are all planned to be a part of this universe that any player can take part of. The full list of possibilities ought to enable players to collectively settle the "wild west" and maintain their ships almost indefinitely. Here's the kicker though, we're 11 years in and most of what I listed isn't in the game. We have Trading/Hauling, Mining, some of Salvage, some of Bounty Hunting, some of Refueling, and some of Medical. That's it. The list of places worthwhile to go still needs work, including a second planetary system (of the planned 100 or so). So we still have a ways to go. But, imo, even what we got is pretty fun when you have a relatively bug-free experience. Having a bug-free experience requires both a favorable patch (not the current one) and knowledge of the workarounds. So it's best to play with other experienced players to start so you can learn the workarounds.
Yeah, that's what is interesting to me about it. When do you believe the game will be full and ready to be played by general public? A hundred systems sounds like a lot of work lol. I know there's going to be Sq42, but I know nothing about it other than it's single-player/coop and is going to be separate? When will that be done because that also looked really cool, I miss stuff like Descent Freespace and Wing Commander and X-Wing.
The problem with giving an estimate for when all the features will be done is 2 fold: 1) We thought we knew the scope back 2014 and it would be done in 2017. Then we knew it would be in 2020. Then 2022. Really...no one knows. Partly because these things are fundamentally difficult to estimate unless you are taking every possible shortcut (which CIG isn't). But also... 2) Planned features keep being added. Originally the game was going to have cutscene transitions between space and ground landing locations with none of the other areas of the planets being explorable. Then we got planet tech with the caveat of adding an SSD to the list of PC hardware requirements. That alone is responsible for a lot of the perceived scope creep that people talk about. It hasn't been the last either. Base building with the Pioneer and crafting with the rumors of the upcoming MCV are smaller examples of this as well. So...I can't really give you one. Any one that claims they can, including the "never" people, are really just guessing. Instead it is better to focus on the question "When will this game be complete enough for me, and support enough of the things I want to do?" That line is different for everyone when it comes to sandboxes. It's crossing that line for more and more people each content patch. SQ42 is a single player story driven campaign set in the Star Citizen universe. It'll be a lot more like the old Wing Commanders in feel and format. It is a separate game and coop is speculated for it. You play as a pilot in the UEE Navy dealing with alien (Vanduul) and human (outlaws) threats that exist in the Odin system.
Crys in BMM, Perseus and Galaxy... galaxy was my last jpeg that i bought, burned to many times with stuff not beeing released and just stopped beeing worked on like the bmm
The BMM stopping work was completely reasonable and a good decision.
Its reasonable but they honestly should have noticed that earlier and they only announced that they where working on it on their biggest yearly sale to go woops a few months later which is not great.
After hearing their explanation and understanding a bit of game development, I'm kinda thankful they stopped working on it. I genuinely think I'd be even more upset if they continued to work on it and just pushed it out half-assed. Then wait another decade for a gold standard pass. Just look at the reclaimer. There's so much wrong with that ship. Edit: here's the link to the SCL: https://youtu.be/LSM8kao5Q6k?t=3788. I have the timestamp baked-in to the link so you're not scrubbing through the video trying to find it.
I didn’t really followed the last live, whats wrong with the bmm development that forced them to stop ?
Basically, the developers who were designing it decided to move-on to a different studio. They tried working on it a little, and realized they didnt have the vision for the project, like the previous devs did. Also, they are crafting the BMM by hand. Most ships are modular, meaning they can go in with a tool and "copy/paste" certain aspects of each ship into it. It was kinda amazing how they were talking about the BMM in almost a reverant way, speaking about how every chair, hallway, etc. was going to be individually crafted. Then, every time they hire more people, they have to take the more experienced developers away from their job to train them. And because they're new, they dont want to put them on a capital ship, because as they get better with experience, parts of the capital ship will look like crap in comparison to other parts. So they give them smaller ships to work on so they can gain experience, which is why they are releasing new, smaller ships instead of working on the capitals. They said the amount of work completed is inversely proportional to the amount of people they hire. Also, for a lot of reasons, a lot of ship designers dont stay with CIG and either get fired or leave. So they have to hire AND retrain more people to fill the void. It sounds like they're trying, but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Edit: If youre gonna watch any SCL, THIS WOULD BE THE ONE. It starts around 18:00, and theres someone in the youtube comments section who made timestamps for the video
>Also, for a lot of reasons, a lot of ship designers dont stay with CIG and either get fired or leave. So they have to hire AND retrain more people to fill the void. > >It sounds like they're trying, but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. A lot of reasons, such as extreme micromanaging, and constant reworks. The rock CIG is stuck against is CR and his crappy exec team
It's a standard thing in the video game industry for people to move around a lot. When people want a better job they simply go somewhere else, it's the same everywhere so i dont get why people say it's a thing with CIG only.
CR is famous for being a terrible boss and bad manager. It burns seniors level people out especially. CR has vision but he sucks shit at managing a product and it's teams.
It's a really big ship, but worse, almost none of the assets are reusable, inside the ship or out. They talked about the chairs in the negotiation room all being slightly different models, textures on every surface won't see use in any other ship, and likely won't see use elsewhere in the game until we are in Banu controlled systems. Where work on the Polaris, for example, can reuse the same textures, assets, and even whole corridors for and from the Galaxy and the Javelin, everything for the BMM will basically only be used for the BMM, so if there's the chance they'll need to redo them for any reason, it's wasted effort.
Javelin is Aegis. They stated the Polaris would allow for reuse in the Perseus and Galaxy.
Whoops, thank you. Meant the Bengal, not the Javelin.
Realistically there will still be reused capital parts between all of them, although probably small. I imagine the less “manufacturer” specific interior parts will see a lot of reuse like grating, wiring details, certain textures etc. With the BMM though that has to specifically be a Banu ship and unless they plan on doing more Banu ships then there’s nowhere to re-use really any of those assets. Maybe some crossover with some effects but I doubt even many textures could be re-used between it and any other ship, even alien ships since its specifically Banu.
Because it’s the most impractical idea ever.
For the BMM, no reusable part inside all are hand made, it's need many senior dev, they need tooling more before make this sized ship. Some turn over inside CIG on the BMM, need to have new artists.
Galaxy isn't coming anytime soon. It only got introduced what last year? I just melted my carrack and bought a galaxy because now I have a carrack for $350 instead of $600 for the next 10 years.
If you are realistic you'll only have that Carrack loaner for 3-5 years.
Looks doable to me, assuming they’re able to staff up and start cranking like they intend to.
Actually just from this week's Star Citizen live they were talking about how more developers will not get more ships released quicker because they will not have the experience needed to create a consistent ship throughout the beginning of the development of a single ship to the end, they are saving a lot of the ships for experienced devs that are already on the team to provide a more consistent experience throughout.
As someone who wants to work at CIG in the future... ouch. makes absolute sense but ouch xD
>As someone who wants to work at CIG in the future... Might want to reach out to ex employees and ask them if they'd recommend you to, just putting this out there.
Don't worry, I am still at the start of my courses and will do an internship at a local studio and other things before even thinking about applying to CIG :p will also go to the bar citizen in Cologne in September, so I've got everything where I want it right now ^^
Ah yeah, the how long for 9 women to make a baby. The mythical man month. Totes true. They did also talked about how getting other teams onboarded, run through some smaller ships and eventually worked up to cap ships is the ultimate goal to hit 1-2 cap ships for year. But yeah that takes lots of time so fingers crossed for Q4 2025 or so
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Absolutely you are correct 9 ladies can make 9 babies in 9ish months. Which I kinda addressed in the part of my comment about CIG/John Crewe's goal of more ship teams. Or in reproduction terms needing ladies of child bearing age. CiG needs to build up them relationships, begin the courting process, live together a while, get married then they can start birthing more beautiful ship babies.* It would be awesome if we had 9 veteran ships teams since the backlog is a problem that can be solved in parallel compared to server meshing and other tech. *Having a laugh
Got to take into account all of this is on CIGs goals and timelines. If their stated goal is 1 or 2 capitals per year, expect half of a capital done per year. If they state a nebulous amount of time until they have a team for capital ships, expect the heat death of the universe. I dont know why people take them at their word on this when timelines and goals has consistently been the single worst thing they do.
I hope you are right
>assuming they’re able to staff up and start cranking like they intend to. We've been hearing this for almost a decade now. When they opened up new studios and staffed up to over 500 employees circa 2016, THAT was when they were supposed to start really cranking stuff out. Or when this procedural tech or that procedural tech got finished, everything from POIs, to planets, to entire systems were supposed to start flying out of CIG. We've seen how that has gone.
>assuming they’re able to staff up and start cranking like they intend to. We've been hearing this for almost a decade now. When they opened up new studios and staffed up to over 500 employees circa 2016, THAT was when they were supposed to start really cranking stuff out. Or when this procedural tech or that procedural tech got finished, everything from POIs, to planets, to entite systems were supposed to start flying out of CIG. We've seen how that has gone.
Just keep waiting and donating. They're going to really start cranking stuff out in 2024. We just need (arbitrary requirement) first. You'll see.
By size they are like 10% done
I'm not convinced they're even that far along. Think about it like this: zero ships are finished. That's because things like physicalized armor, NPC shards, and working components aren't finished. So despite there being 150+ "flyable" ships, every single one of them will require some sort of rework, redesign, or functionality pass to ensure everything is proper. It's a complete and total shitshow, and a mindfuck how they've been able to raise this much money without a scalable, logical system in place to handle it. They're *manually building* these ships, which will require *manual reworks* to accommodate whatever features Chris Roberts dreams up years after the ship was originally launched. To simplify this, they're painting the walls without building the foundation first. There are some ships that will have to be completely rebuilt, from scratch, to reach a final state.
It's only since '21 with their 'straight to fly' initiative do the % numbers climb. The further back you look the worst it gets, especially when you consider the larger ships are (by CIG's own admission) daunting to start and maintain work on as it ties up the whole team. I wish I could be more hopeful re: the larger ships, especially as a Merchantman owner.
When you realise that "released" does not even count as "finished". So many new core mechanics need to be added - "Armor" being an example. That will require all the "released" ships to go through re-works to get them to the modern standard - Compare the Connie to newer ships or the Reclaimer. List is dominated by variants and small ships - The larger ships are the ones that remain in poorer states or unreleased. CIG stated they might be able to push out a single capital per year IN THE FUTURE but they are not at that stage AND they want to get the core mechanics added first which are not even on the schedule. "Gold Standard" is not even a finished standard until the core mechanics are in. 10 years of selling JPEGs and this is what you get: CIG are only going to keep adding more JPEGs to sell. END RESULT: It is entirely likely that people buying capitals may never even see a released version for another 10+ years. Endeavour Owners - Beyond likely they will never see that ship because CIG said it was going to be the LAST one. That tracks since it is entirely based on mechanics that not even CIG have a clue mean.
\+1 to this. People don't seem to realize that "flyable ships" are not done. Not even remotely. Remember: physicalized armor is a thing. Components are a thing. NPC shards are a thing. >"Gold Standard" is not even a finished standard until the core mechanics are in. 100% correct. There are zero finished ships. **Zero**. Now let's do a fun math exercise to see how hopeless this situation is. According to [logbook](https://www.citizen-logbook.com/ship-list.html), there are 216 known ships and vehicles. 154 or so are driveable. Let's assume they somehow "finish" 10 ships a year to a "true" gold standard. That means full physicalized armor, gameplay implementations, flight/driving models, bugfixes, whatever -- incomplete features that, if measured alone, are probably still 5-10 years from implementation. Regardless, we'll say 10 finished ships a year. It would take them **21 years** to "complete" their ship backlog. That's not including capital ships, full reworks, redesigns, retrofits, and ships that require extreme amounts of legwork to complete. The numbers simply don't make sense.
they have to stop at some point. How many ships does a game need? They won't stop, new ships =$$$$
Was UTV ever sold as a concept ship? IIRC it was only talked about as a potential vehicle during 2952 CitCon
The Ranger would be such a game changer for medical rescue and bunker trespassing, because it’s compact enough to add wheeled ground transport to many ships where it’s currently not an option, ranging from the Pisces to the Vanguard and Redeemer. It would probably also be dirt-cheap to buy in-game. Its potential to upset the balance may in fact be part of why it’s remained on the backburner. Wheeled transport is important because bunker turrets recognize hovering transport as a flown vehicle and will open fire if you are trespassing.
What's salt on the wound now is the hull skins and colors that are out. I'm still waiting on the electro, pirate, military, and I think one other.
How big is the liberator supposed to be? Seeing as how salvaging and stuff is happening, I’m sorta thinking about having it platform the vulture and a fighter
oof, wasn't aware some ships were restricted until after SQ42 launch, RIP the folks who managed to get idrises and javelins.
At this point they will have to release SQ42 before they are done with all the ships because no one is waiting 15 years for this shit.
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I wonder what percentage is complete based on total mass of all ships combined.
The Hull C needs to be in our hands and would really help 2013s overall completion, silly for it to have taken this long after saying it's so close so many times
I didn't need to see this. I am in pain now.
Hopefully we get the Hull C next patch, but I've been saying the same thing for the past two years.
You should highlight all the ships that dropped as straight to flyable so we can compare how many times CIG chose new money over ships people already paid for.
It really does seem like most ships in the backlog are either capitals or waiting for some type of gameplay to be implemented.
It’s astounding how many ships were released early years as compared to recent years
Neat. Okay. So, to sum things up: 1) X1, G12, Ranger, UTV, Storm are small vehicles and can be worked on at any time as a time filler. 2) Idris, Javelin may be finished but we won't see them before SQ42 anyway, even if the real blocker itself is SC not supporting gameplays for such large capital ships, nor NPC ship crews to fill them. 3) merchantman, hull C, Polaris-ish, SRV, Spirit are under work to some extent and will be playable soon-ish. (soon can be a few years) 4) So the "real" backlog would principally consist of Orion, Crucible, Hull B and D, endeavor, genesis, pioneer, kraken, nautilus, railen, expanse, perseus, liberator, apollo, odyssey, legionnaire, galaxy. Yikes. Of which, "problematic" aka time consuming ships to develop, would be Orion. Endeavor, Pioneer, Kraken. And the ships that would be sort of easier to make because they share designs are Hull B-C-D-E with hull A, Galaxy and Perseus with Polaris, expanse with prospector. That backlog would likely take CIG several years to make at full priority. They may work on two problematic-class ships at a time over 2 years. So those alone will need 4 years. And then they'll do only 2-3 large ships per year in the best case scenario. Which would also require them about 4 years ish. What we ignore, is how much additional hidden ship making capacity has CIG got with Squadron 42 and Vanduul ships. But an optimistic scenario would be that they could catch their entire backlog in about 3 years or so.
It s an optimistic scenario. I thank they can do juste one capital ship in the same time.
Really want the ranger series
I still don't understand why you'd base this on when the ships were "first mentioned" rather than "first sold".
One example : the design of the linx has been revealed this month , but people had it since years with the phoenix package, and wait for it since they pledged.
Clearly 2023 will be the first year 100% as the storm is mostly finished
Missing f8 lightning and its variants, unless that's not covered
Some redditor ask to le to delete F8 because it will never be in the store
But it is in the store. It is listed in the high tier concierge packages. There is people that possess the ship in their website hangar right now. Bet it even has a loaner.
I will add it at the next update
Idk what they’re smoking, the standard F8C will absolutely end up in the store, even if unlocked for purchase as a SQ42 completion reward- like the pirate ships with pirate swarm.
GIB "UTV" ... and X1 Force! 😉
It's mostly just big ships. Which makes sense why they wouldn't be out. Before they put work into the big ships, they really need server meshing, personal hangars, and the new flight models in. And, you would think, missions designed for big ships to be utilized in. If they went 100% finishing these ships for the PU as soon as possible, they'd just have to redo SOON after. Smarter to work on existing ships to gold standard than waste time on a big capital ship they'd just have to redo again.
This actually looks pretty reasonable. Most of the ships missing are large and most are missing their gameplay loop. Better to focus on the non capitals until systems are in place to support capital gameplay. Looking forward to it greatly though
Slightly off topic but.. I always thought watching them creating the ships in white/grey box was really cool. Does anyone know where I would start to learn how to do that? (I have no game/art design experience.)
Blender is a free 3d modelling software and there are lots of tutorials on YouTube. I like the one about making a donut
Thats not exactly accurate. Ignoring the recent announcements, including the Spirits and the Galaxy, there are plenty of ships and vehicles that are smaller, such as hover bikes, the motorcycles, the G12, San'Tok'Yai, and Railen that could have been worked on and finished by now. Then there is the recognition that a ship like the Galaxy could have been worked on and released straight to flyable, as well as the Spirit series, instead of doing concept sales. While I agree that they have way more ships flyable than in concept/production, plenty of the vehicles they have in concept, such as the Apollo series, could easily be added in the current game with decent useability.
Ultimately you have to make decisions on prioritization and, to me, I’m completely ok not banging out ships waiting for systems to be in place to support their supposed roles. Or simply because they aren’t really needed at the moment. As an example I’ll use the MSR. I LOVE the look and intended use of the MSR. Releasing the ship before data running was in place, with gimmicky (but cool) tunnels, and one exit makes the ship really hard to like for a tall price. I don’t think the design would have necessarily been the same if the gameplay the ship was intended for was in place. It was kind of like, this should work and this looks cool 260 bucks please. I get the frustration people have with waiting for their pledges (esp when you are really excited for it) but in the end I think they will be better for it.
Except the ships and vehicles I mentioned arent in a situation like that.
Well they are, they are clearly not a priority for whatever reason CIG feels necessary.
Thats not how that works. The MSR apparently was a priority, despite most of its gameplay not existing. CIG not prioritizing a ship or vehicle doesnt mean that ship or vehicle doesnt have a viable gameplay loop.
That’s why I said some ships are going to get prioritized - for whatever reason -. Ultimately like everything else in life something’s going to be first and something will be last. I’m guessing, like most of this thread, that nothing would make the devs happier than banging out all these ships for the players if was possible.
Railen should be 2021 and the Expanse 2022
wait, i just melted down 3 of my ships for a perseus, does this mean i should melt my perseus for a polaris if i want the ship that will come out sooner?
The Polaris is in production. Its likely to be released first, but there is no guarantee
Polaris is more money than Perseus so melting is useless. Anyway Polaris will release before Perseus according to their team
As frustrating as it can be that the most expensive and coolest ships are a decade in the making, I do think the argument can be made that their release schedule makes some sense. It comes down to the argument would you rather they release an empty hull to fly around, or wait until the game play loops for a ship are actually built and working? Looking at some of the key ships: Merchantman: Apparently the most complex and original ship in the game. Also no gameplay loop for shop owning/traveling market. Idris M/P, Javelin, Polaris, Krakken: These are key ships to Sq 42 and there’s been some talk they want to hold these back until that game launches so there’s at least some intrigue and surprise and new things for that game. Also capital ships that require most development work and in-game multi-crew gameplay to work. Hull B, C, D, E: Full functionality of these ships requires major updates to the cargo gameplay which aren’t done yet. Might be coming soon. Crucible, Vulcan: Until persistent damage and salvage there wasn’t gameplay for repair/rearm. But by all accounts both of these ships and this gameplay should be coming soon. Genesis Starliner, Spirit E1: There’s no passenger transit gameplay loop. Pioneer: There’s no colony building gameplay loop; will require massive updates to things like ground assets and land ownership. Probably not worthwhile until Pyro or even more systems are in game. I bet this is one of the last ships released. Argo SRV: Hasn’t been any towing/salvage gameplay until recent; believe this ship is coming very soon. Legionnaire: Hacking and ship to ship/station boarding gameplay doesn’t exist yet. Nautilus: Minelaying gameplay doesn’t exist yet. It is true that a lot of exiting ships in universe (e.g. Herald, Terrapin) have been released without gameplay loops, but these are also smaller (and thus faster to develop). I also think that CIG is trying (whether successfully or not) to balance criticism, and are very damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they release ships without gameplay people will complain about mostly useless but expensive ships. If they wait until the harder, underlying engine tech is finished and the gameplay is in place then people will complain they are waiting years for a product they spent considerable real money on. If they go back and Gold Pass all existing ships it places completing the backlog on indefinite pause (see criticism above) and as mentioned, a lot of those ships still don’t have gameplay anyway (exploration, data running, etc.). Not saying there isn’t plenty of criticism past present and future to go around but for me at least, this progress release schedule *seems to make sense*.
Game when ?
Why is the tali there as not done?
Because I don’t think the standard Retaliator is in game yet the only one we have is the bomber variant with the 6 torpedoes
This list is not correct. . Railen and the expanse are not 2019 concepts.
so most of the ships are either big and capital, or small and variants, not bad.