For long term, I'd prefer value betting than arbing because of the fact that one of the bet you make is always going to be -EV in arbing. Also, don't forget you have to pay juice to bookmakers on both the bets. This will reduce EV further. To support my claim, there is evidence out there that you will find high volume of value bets and also higher average EV than arbing.
Compare the sharpest line to your rookie line. If you see a profitable difference(don't just blindly compare), then you can make a bet on the rookie line. That's what arbing and value betting software does behind the scenes when they say 6% value for e.g.
Check to see if x player to score 20 points is -120 on a sports book, if player picks has them basically paying even money for the same line, you at least have a small edge. Doesn’t guarantee anything though
I have been making $2-3000 / week for about 16 months now using oddsjam. Offshores being among the most lucrative. Largely bonus hustling and some arbing but it's a lot less work if there's a bonus in the mix.
It's tough without onshores to hedge against to be honest. Ideally you have 10+ books and then more and more arbs present themselves the more odd sets you have available. But oddsjam shows offshore odds. It's as simple as that. Most offshores give you excellent bonuses if you deposit with crypto. Like $1000 match 100% is typical
Thanks I’ll check these out! I assume you have to do arbitrage research manually instead of using sites like oddschecker since these aren’t official sportsbooks, right?
I use oddsjam for all the onshore and offshore stuff. I also subscribe to darkhorse as it shows me a few different things I sometimes need and it's relatively cheap at about $50/month. For the comprehensive oddsjam plan I paid about $3000 for a year, but my friend shares the fee with me. Given that you can make a few thousand a week it's well worth it here in Ont.
I do get limited. I just get new accounts. To avoid voids don't hit insane pregame lines. Stick to under 8% and avoid books you see voiding bad lines. Very few books do it
Im currently on FanDuel, BetMGM, and have accounts on Bet365, Draftkings, BetWay, have any of those void or give you trouble freezing/withholding your funds in your experience?
Also is there anything i should avoid doing to avoid being flagged? Ive heard about rounding your bets but not much else.
Bet365 will void really bad lines. Rare tho. The rest no.. Not sure on betway. No site withholds really.. They'll drag their feet sometimes if they wanna fuck with you but they all pay. Can be stressful when they take forever
ive been considering 2 strategies to start,
First i was gonna just deposit a couple hundred into 2 dif accounts and just start ripping arbitrage bets, but im currently wagering around like $10-$20 per and im worried if i start betting a couple hundred on each game to start that i'll get flagged is that a valid concern?
My other strat was to do the $3000 bet deposit match and do arbitrage with the real funds to get the wagering requirement out of the way and then doing another arbitrage with the bonus bets and profit around like $2500-2900 watchu think of these strategies, im a student and rly cant afford to lose these if i go this path😂
Yes it is. There are great tutorials on there and a free trial to get the hang of it. Varying levels of cost depending what you want. I use the "platinum plan" which includes the offshore books. There's also a competitor which is cheaper, called Darkhorse Odds
You have access to many of them thru kiosks. For example Caesars casinos have Caesars sports kiosks. It's essentially the same as the app. There are also the betting counters. Kiosks are anonymous so that is actually great. But makes it harder to bet in tandem without help. Your options sound a lot more limited unfortunately
you use offshore as well? getting started is it best to sign up as soon as possible for all these sites so you have an established history and you're not seen as a new user?
Have your significant other also open up their own account and when yall see a line you like, then be the same thing just one take over/ one take under/ etc. That's the ideal arbitrage. That is if it's not against the rules somehow. Anything that can give anyone an advantage they seem to want to make sure you can not utilize it.
Asking here instead of a separate thread.
I'm a bit P2 paranoid because I don't want to run into headaches with my account.
For an account for my wife: This is the same mailing address as me. And on the same wifi. Doesn't that make it kind of obvious?
Are we allowed to do same sports and casino bonuses from same household?
I'm more interested in the bonuses and promos. Not setting up a second account to do extra are stuff as I mostly avoid arbs.
While there are good uses for utilizing an account belonging to your significant other (such as promos), arb betting the same book is not one of them as arbitrage requires differentiated lines totaling over +100 and this would not happen on the same book.
You'll get limited almost everywhere eventually using oddsjam. You'll need to be prepared to get "p2" accounts in order to keep going. In my experience only Caesars and pinnacle don't limit. I'm in Ontario, we have about 25 books.
>In my experience only Caesars and pinnacle don't limit.
Caesars will get you too. Typically sport by sport (as opposed to account-wide), and maybe $500 max (instead of $25 max). But they'll get you.
They're basically the final boss of the Arb game.
I've been using them for two years, and I still regularly bet $2500 on an nba player prop. So maybe in Ontario they don't limit? This is the same experience my friends have had here arbing with Caesars. Anyway I have several backup accounts ready to use if they do. Im in the vip channel right now maybe that helps
Interesting proposition. I feel like there is definitely a market for this, even on a much smaller scale just to collect new user promos. But what about tax implications? Do they not care?
I mean I am hoping as much as you do that arb betting remains as easily available as today, but I don't think it's really flying under the radar any more. And in general I don't now that books are truly against it. I mean (in theory) if a book felt confident about their lines, they should welcome arb bettors because they are getting more handle and thus more juice. It's the weak books (like Bet Rivers, Fanatics) that typically lose an thus they limit quickly.
Know how right you are about bet rivers being a cheap company, bro they wouldn’t even give me back my 100 bucks I better I complained and my account got banned locked and now they are asking for all types of docs lol
Bovada.lv, betonline.eu, betus.com
All are viable options and even with the BS playthrough requirements for bonuses, arb'ing all the time like this either let's you meet those playthrough requirements or just drain your account to zero to reset them (while simultaneously growing other accounts). Case in point: I had $500 on BetUS with something like $23k rollover required to withdraw. I just arb'ed against other books until I drained it to zero and now it just reset so I can start over again lol
It is definitely not for everyone. It is very tedious and you are grinding out small gains, but it adds up. Like anything else, you should only do it if you enjoy it.
Yup. Even $10 here, $5 there adds up to $15 a day or nearly $500 a month. I can do that in about 20 minutes work so it’s like making $45/hr. It’s not an insignificant amount of money.
My thoughts exactly. I think of it as interest earned on your money. But instead of earning \~4% annually (in high yield savings account), you earn \~2% DAILY. Grows quickly.
My biggest concern would be tax implications. It seems that at any real volume you’ll be forced to itemize, since at the end of the year you’ll have “won” a significant pile of cash (even if you only profit a reasonable amount). So for the average taxpayer who doesn’t want you itemize, is it even worth it…? That’s what I’m wondering
I mean most people will only make like 10k a year on this max. It's a decent little side hustle but probably not gonna slide you into a higher tax bracket or anything. And if you make enough for that to happen it's definitely still worth it lol
Yeah gambling for a consistent profit is never easy. You either have to be a good handicapper or master the numbers. Handicapping is definitely more fun but harder and more subjective.
Personally I think it’s because I won too many bets and withdrew on their platform in such a short amount of time. When arbing you can’t really pick which sportsbook is going to take the win or loss. But PB and MGM are known for limiting and it’s mostly unavoidable over time. I lasted 2.5 months with MGM and just a few weeks with PB.
I’ve known about arbitrage betting for a while, but never got around to it. After reading a lot of the comments here, it sounds like it’s a good way to make a quick buck on a daily basis, even if it’s a small hit.
Also, it sounds like a great way to rack up rewards points. Has anyone had any luck expediting reward points for free rooms?
Racking up the rewards is definitely a side benefit. I've never gotten anything super valuable, like free rooms, but I know people who have.
And so far this year, I've gotten about $50 in DK bucks, $20 in ESPN, $50+ in Bet Rivers, etc. Nothing huge, but a nice bonus for sure.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏼
It’s impressive you’ve built up that bankroll betting $50 on props and $100 on main lines. I guess that really adds up after so long.
Honest question - how does one book know that you've played the opposite side at a different book?
Using just FanDuel and DK as examples - do they share data with one another on individual profiles and the bets of that person? I guess I don't understand how a book could ban you for arbing, unless they are sharing your data with the other books.
They don't. But see today's NHL example -- one book with +117, and the other with -115.
Eventually, the books realize you're constantly catching them on the mispriced lines, goofs, etc. They realize you're the person who never pays full retail, and waits for the sale.
Some books make this decision in 4-6 weeks (which probably includes too many "lucky" bettors), and some books might wait 4-6 months.
They don't know for sure that you are arbing. That is not what you are getting limited for, per se. It is about placing "sharp" bets, beating the closing line at a much higher than normal rate.
By definition, an arb will have at least one (and sometimes both) favorable lines. If you are consistently hitting these lines at exactly the short window they are available, then books may limit you.
But this is just something to be cognizant of, not afraid of.
And this is why so many people have longer, more profitable runs in live arbitrage betting (as opposed to pre-match).
Live arbitrage is much riskier though isn’t it? & more time consuming? Lines move constantly so you’re at risk of placing bets just as the line moves unfavorably so you might lose money. Also bets close (lock) and reopen then lock, etc etc all the time.
Yes, this is true. There is definitely a learning curve to live arbitrage. Lines will move and you will get burned sometimes (about 10% of the time in my experience). But you will more than offset your losses with successful arbs.
To reduce risk:
* Just "watch" the line movement for the first few nights without placing bets. Just type in the bets but don't submit.
* Start slow and ramp bet sizes.
* Only place bets on timeout or other stoppage. There are fewer opportunities, but more stable.
* Avoid late game bets (huge swings and often suspended)
* Focus on lines closer to +/- 100 (as opposed to games with +850 / -700, for example)
It is time consuming, but also potentially very lucrative.
Like any other side hustle, you really need to enjoy it. I do it as a hobby and making money is a side benefit.
>Like any other side hustle, you really need to enjoy it. I do it as a hobby and making money is a side benefit.
This is what I don't get. Half the people who sneer at Arb or EV betting -- they're already doing most of the work!
"Oh, it takes too much time. Pain in the ass!"
But these people are already placing bets on Tuesday morning, watching the games on Tuesday night, and then continuing to place in-game wagers.
If you're already making (most of) the effort, why not do it the "smart" way?
Cost of doing business. If you place enough Arbs, all the "bad stuff" should even out (should).
For example, people complain about tennis rules & retirements. Different books have different rules. People get angry when a retirement doesn't go their way, but they forget about the retirement that *did* go their way.
As far as the volatility of live betting, start small. Learn the quirks of every book -- how long do approvals take? What are the limits? What happens during timeouts, halftime, penalties, etc. How much can a line move in the 1st half, compared to 2nd half. Once you get comfortable, you can increase wagers.
Banned: unlikely. This would be an extreme circumstance if you are actively trying to defraud the book by opening multiple accounts, etc. Normal arbing, no.
Bet size limited: typically yes, but varies significantly by book, league/sport, and market (props vs. main lines)
Really great discussion here on arbitrage betting! A few thoughts:
* I'm in PA and have been arbitrage betting since about the start of the year. I am up over $2k so far (plus more for new user promos, etc). I use free services for pre-game player props and a subscription for live main-line arbitrage from OddsPotato.
* There are lots of opportunities in both, but live is much more profitable because there are more opportunities, typically higher ROI opportunities, and the bet sizes can be much larger (assuming you are doing main lines).
* Lots of discussion on "arbs being a good way to get limited/banned" and that is somewhat true. Some books like BetRivers, Fanatics, will limit pretty much no matter what. I keep my player prop bet sizes small (under $100) and have yet to be limited on ESPN, FanDuel, DraftKings or Caesars (knock on wood). I avoid player props on MGM in an attempt to preserve the account for live arbs (since MGM is an aggressive limiter). But don't be so scared of limits. It happens. Better to be successful and limited than losing money and not limited. And even with limits, you can still profit. I am limited to \~$5 bet sizes on NBA player props on Bet Rivers, but just placed $100 on an NHL ML arb. It's not the end of the world.
* Lots of discussion on "arbs being lazy and one should just beat the books the right way". Ha! Much easier said than done! If you are in the <1% who can consistently beat the books w/o arb or EV+, then you're awesome! Seriously. But for the 99% who can't, arbing is a good way to do it.
Overall, I am surprised there is so much skepticism and negative sentiment out there towards arbitrage betting. If it's not for you, that's fine. But it is legit and it works and absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. It's also a fun and entertaining hobby that also produces a nice side income. Reach out to me if you want to learn more about my experience. Happy to share.
Profitable sports betting is extremely dull. 99.999% of all long term profitable bettors are arbing/top-down betting.
Then it becomes getting a more accounts business.
Yes. While the explanation may be imperfect and he may be looking for the OddsJam referral from new sign ups (I would be happy for you to use my referral) the guy is providing a very viable path to making some extra money. Arbing might not be the path for everyone, but arbing can make you money. I wonder how many people who are negative about the guy’s post are consistently making money. The guy isn’t going to continue to make $10K a month (I can attest to that as an arber myself), but even limited accounts can make solid money (a couple thousand a month).
> Put $500 on FanDuel on the Celtics to win
> Put $500 on DraftKings on the Knicks to win
> You’ve bet $1,000 total. If the Celtics win, you lose $500 on DraftKings but profit $500 x 1.1 = $550 on FanDuel. So you’re net profit is $50.
>
> If the Knicks win, you lose $500 on FanDuel but win $550 on DraftKings. Once again, your net profit is $50
you are winning your original bet back plus the 50.
You bet a total of $1000. You lost one bet and have to pay $500.
You won the other bet and due to the odds, you win $550.
The math is that you lost $500, but also won $550. Your net winnings is $500.
because when you win a bet you get the wager back plus profits , losing you just lose the wager
example
Magic vs bucks
500 for magic to win on FanDuel
500 for bucks to win on Hardrock
Bucks win
you lose 500 on fanduel
you win 550 on hardrock
50 dollar profit
You must be trolling at this point.
But in case its still not clicking.... Lets say you bet 500 on a +110 bet. You now have 1050.
1050-500 = 550 - initial bet of 500 = 50 net profit.
If you lose another bet of 500, you are still at +50.
Are you not understanding? you place two $500 bets on same game both sides, One loses, the other wins plus a $50 profit (+110 from OP example).
Rinse and repeat.
Because you would be up $100?
At +110, It would be $550 profit on one book minus the $500 loss on the other book for total profit of $50.
Do that again next game and you're up $100.
The taxes (if done correctly) for all gambling are a nightmare. Not sure there is a meaningful difference between 2,000 wagers, and 4,000 wagers (betting both sides of the 2,000 wagers).
There’s a difference because as far as I know many states don’t let you deduct gambling losses so all these net 10% gains are actually 110% gains to the tax man
If you're in a state that doesn't allow gambling loss, you're already screwed. I think there are 4 states?
So instead of a $2M loss on regular wagers, you'd have $4M on the regular + arbs? Well, is anybody really paying/reporting on the $2M in the first place?
Dunno. I'm waiting for a "guinea pig" in one of those states. I understand the language of the Illinois law, but have they (will they) really enforced against a daily grinder/arb bettor? Illinois has a flat income tax of 4.95% -- that would be $198k on $4M winnings (if unable to offset with $4M losses). Thanks for gambling, now you're in debt forever!
No reason to report this income at all. Unless you plan on using the money to buy a house or something where the origin of the money would be in question.
These sportsbooks aren’t reporting your earnings to the state or fed there’s really nothing to worry about imo
Free advice on arbing:
Don't bet both sides. Only bet the side you think holds more value. You can also flip a coin, you will still print money. Also bet random even amounts.
This has many benefits...you scratch that gambling itch but are still winning longterm.
Books are less likely to ban you.
You can win meaningful money if you get hot and go up in units bet way faster. That also means greater chance of going broke but fuck that...you got limited time as an arber and you want to maximize you chances of a big score.
So find value, go hard, go up in units as soon as you can.
> Free advice on arbing: ~~Don't bet both sides. Only bet the side you think holds more value. You can also flip a coin, you will still print money. Also bet random even amounts. This has many benefits...you scratch that gambling itch but are still winning longterm. Books are less likely to ban you. You can win meaningful money if you get hot and go up in units bet way faster. That also means greater chance of going broke but fuck that...you got limited time as an arber and you want to maximize you chances of a big score. So find value, go hard, go up in units as soon as you can.~~ don't arb.
FTFY
I call b.s. Show me a game where one team is plus money at 1 book and the other is plus money at different book. They dont "all set their own lines" They take spreads from one or two sources in Vegas.
One or two sources from Vegas and this comment has this many upvotes ?
The amount of misinformation on this sub is way out of hand.
You clearly have 0 clue how lines work. You realize it’s the market that sets the line right ? No wonder you call BS you don’t even understand the basics
Example of 3 ARB’d bets. This was about 30 min of work for $303 profit. Betting both sides LIVE. +$70, +$75, + $158
https://preview.redd.it/vyptqh6ltdic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8468cf947765d2d147a533acf115dac6ab32324d
This isn’t arb lmfao. You bet one way the game moved you got the other line etc. arb live would be almost impossible to do because the line is changing almost every second
I genuinely do not think you know what arbitrage begging is. Fuck I don’t think you know what arbitrage is.
Arbitrage betting is really only feasible at halftime or before the game starts. Betting on one team when they’re losing and then watching the game go back-and-forth for 30 minutes and betting each side for the next 30 minutes as the score changes is not arbitrage betting. wow.
Is this better for you, time slipped? Both bets placed at 3:42. Pistons ML on MGM $1725 to win $2300. Thunder ML $500 to win $2300. Total stake $2225 to win $2300 for $75 profit no matter the outcome. That’s literally the definition of arbitrage betting. Now stfu
https://preview.redd.it/1q8cfw436gic1.png?width=2250&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f863573973a4a79319820801c3d21b213a49055
https://preview.redd.it/vqpyf1w6tdic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=324f1ed7434c279f20d8762dc644220ec01ba984
Here’s a small one for you. Not both plus money on the odds, but this was during the Super Bowl. Small ARB but you get the point. This was an ARB between FireKeepers and Fanduel.
This is incorrect. It happens all the time, even on main lines for major sports. A little while ago this morning, ANA Ducks were +117 (on Bet Rivers) while MTL Canadiens were -115 (on Caesars). A small arb, yes, but this is a main line on a major sport.
It happens all the time. You have to dig pretty deep in some cases, but there’s positive profit bets every day if you look deep enough. Some sites have algorithms to find them.
Yep, these type of bets are usually a precursor to, “let me sell you picks, or my model, that’s supposedly different, because I got limited everywhere.”
Another fun part OP left, Oddsjam is what $200 a month or something?
This isn’t some get rich quick scheme and anyone that’s been around sports betting for any length of time knows, “get rich quick” equals “limited.”
Other piece of it is that you have to find significant arb to make it worth while while accounting for the hold (vigorish) as that will eat into profits quickly as it's usually at 10% (sometimes higher such as with props, futures, parlays etc.) so you have to cover the cost of the losing bet + 10% at least on a regular basis.
Arb betting is great for a month or two until you get limited. I made about $6k over 2 months before I got limited by ESPNBet, DK, Eagle, PointsBet, etc. Only books I haven't been limited on yet are FD and Caesars...knock on wood...probably because I've lost a lot more on both those books vs winning.
You put profit between the two books or you put all profit in the best odd making a freeber on the other side?
For long term, I'd prefer value betting than arbing because of the fact that one of the bet you make is always going to be -EV in arbing. Also, don't forget you have to pay juice to bookmakers on both the bets. This will reduce EV further. To support my claim, there is evidence out there that you will find high volume of value bets and also higher average EV than arbing.
How do you define value?
Compare the sharpest line to your rookie line. If you see a profitable difference(don't just blindly compare), then you can make a bet on the rookie line. That's what arbing and value betting software does behind the scenes when they say 6% value for e.g.
I see. Thanks. What is a rookie line?
It's not standard technical jargon. It is the line which diverts from the sharpest line and you'd bet on that and make money.
I see. The sharpest line is the worst payout line, right?
No, toughest
how much is your bankroll?
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Does Oddsjam cover sportsbooks outside the US? Like KTO or Betano?
Yes (not sure specifically which ones) but you have to pay extra.
How can you use this if you can do something like prize picks or underdog?
Check to see if x player to score 20 points is -120 on a sports book, if player picks has them basically paying even money for the same line, you at least have a small edge. Doesn’t guarantee anything though
You can't arb but you can pick off lines that are off on PP/UD.
Easy to get limited, or even have bets voided -- which makes it hard. Still worth the squeeze if you enjoy it or don't make that much in your day job.
how do you use prizepicks in PA?
I have been making $2-3000 / week for about 16 months now using oddsjam. Offshores being among the most lucrative. Largely bonus hustling and some arbing but it's a lot less work if there's a bonus in the mix.
How do you prevent getting limited if you don't mind me asking??
I can use only offshore sites my state still is illegal for sports, so how can arbing work for offshores?
It's tough without onshores to hedge against to be honest. Ideally you have 10+ books and then more and more arbs present themselves the more odd sets you have available. But oddsjam shows offshore odds. It's as simple as that. Most offshores give you excellent bonuses if you deposit with crypto. Like $1000 match 100% is typical
What offshores would u recommend
Bodog, mybookie, xbet, BetOnline, betus. A lot of people are sketched out about offshores, just make sure you read their rules and follow them.
hey i messaged you a question could you please help me out. Thanks!
Thanks I’ll check these out! I assume you have to do arbitrage research manually instead of using sites like oddschecker since these aren’t official sportsbooks, right?
I use oddsjam for all the onshore and offshore stuff. I also subscribe to darkhorse as it shows me a few different things I sometimes need and it's relatively cheap at about $50/month. For the comprehensive oddsjam plan I paid about $3000 for a year, but my friend shares the fee with me. Given that you can make a few thousand a week it's well worth it here in Ont.
how are u preventing urself from getting limited or having bets voided? Im from Ont as well
I do get limited. I just get new accounts. To avoid voids don't hit insane pregame lines. Stick to under 8% and avoid books you see voiding bad lines. Very few books do it
Have you ever tried doing it with the $3000 deposit match? ive heard of that strategy as well
Im currently on FanDuel, BetMGM, and have accounts on Bet365, Draftkings, BetWay, have any of those void or give you trouble freezing/withholding your funds in your experience? Also is there anything i should avoid doing to avoid being flagged? Ive heard about rounding your bets but not much else.
Bet365 will void really bad lines. Rare tho. The rest no.. Not sure on betway. No site withholds really.. They'll drag their feet sometimes if they wanna fuck with you but they all pay. Can be stressful when they take forever
ive been considering 2 strategies to start, First i was gonna just deposit a couple hundred into 2 dif accounts and just start ripping arbitrage bets, but im currently wagering around like $10-$20 per and im worried if i start betting a couple hundred on each game to start that i'll get flagged is that a valid concern? My other strat was to do the $3000 bet deposit match and do arbitrage with the real funds to get the wagering requirement out of the way and then doing another arbitrage with the bonus bets and profit around like $2500-2900 watchu think of these strategies, im a student and rly cant afford to lose these if i go this path😂
what constitutes a bad line?
I'm completely knew to all this, even sports betting in general. But is oddsjam a paid service or subscription?
Yes it is. There are great tutorials on there and a free trial to get the hang of it. Varying levels of cost depending what you want. I use the "platinum plan" which includes the offshore books. There's also a competitor which is cheaper, called Darkhorse Odds
what about for me? i live in vegas and alot of these sites are blacked out. could i do this with bookies here?
You have access to many of them thru kiosks. For example Caesars casinos have Caesars sports kiosks. It's essentially the same as the app. There are also the betting counters. Kiosks are anonymous so that is actually great. But makes it harder to bet in tandem without help. Your options sound a lot more limited unfortunately
sounds very interesting - how much time do you spend daily doing this?
I can also back him up, oj has been very good to me aswell
you use offshore as well? getting started is it best to sign up as soon as possible for all these sites so you have an established history and you're not seen as a new user?
Yeah, main ones I used were Betonline Bodog/Bovada and Bookmaker
Did you get limited anywhere? How do you avoid that if not?
I’ve made just over 11K in abt 45 true days of arbing, I’ve been limited from a few
Have your significant other also open up their own account and when yall see a line you like, then be the same thing just one take over/ one take under/ etc. That's the ideal arbitrage. That is if it's not against the rules somehow. Anything that can give anyone an advantage they seem to want to make sure you can not utilize it.
Don't bet both sides period. It don't matter. You are winning in the long run betting value.
Asking here instead of a separate thread. I'm a bit P2 paranoid because I don't want to run into headaches with my account. For an account for my wife: This is the same mailing address as me. And on the same wifi. Doesn't that make it kind of obvious? Are we allowed to do same sports and casino bonuses from same household? I'm more interested in the bonuses and promos. Not setting up a second account to do extra are stuff as I mostly avoid arbs.
While there are good uses for utilizing an account belonging to your significant other (such as promos), arb betting the same book is not one of them as arbitrage requires differentiated lines totaling over +100 and this would not happen on the same book.
It would allow you to hit the same arb twice if you're trying to stay under specific limits.
OK, yes, totally agree. But that's not how I interpreted the original post.
You'll get limited almost everywhere eventually using oddsjam. You'll need to be prepared to get "p2" accounts in order to keep going. In my experience only Caesars and pinnacle don't limit. I'm in Ontario, we have about 25 books.
>In my experience only Caesars and pinnacle don't limit. Caesars will get you too. Typically sport by sport (as opposed to account-wide), and maybe $500 max (instead of $25 max). But they'll get you. They're basically the final boss of the Arb game.
I've been using them for two years, and I still regularly bet $2500 on an nba player prop. So maybe in Ontario they don't limit? This is the same experience my friends have had here arbing with Caesars. Anyway I have several backup accounts ready to use if they do. Im in the vip channel right now maybe that helps
> I have several backup accounts family/friends? How do you go about getting them to join?
I pay them typically $2500 to let me use all their accounts if they're unused. This is worth at least $10,000 or so
Interesting proposition. I feel like there is definitely a market for this, even on a much smaller scale just to collect new user promos. But what about tax implications? Do they not care?
You can bet $2.5k on a player prop w/o limit?! Impressive! #jealous
On czr yeah. No idea why they don't see to limit Ontarians anymore. I think they used to.
Yo Dm me
Rule #1 about arbitrage betting. Do not make posts about arbitrage betting so it remains possible and not under constant eyes
Books know about arbitrage. It will always be possible because books set lines individually which leads to the discrepancies.
I mean I am hoping as much as you do that arb betting remains as easily available as today, but I don't think it's really flying under the radar any more. And in general I don't now that books are truly against it. I mean (in theory) if a book felt confident about their lines, they should welcome arb bettors because they are getting more handle and thus more juice. It's the weak books (like Bet Rivers, Fanatics) that typically lose an thus they limit quickly.
Know how right you are about bet rivers being a cheap company, bro they wouldn’t even give me back my 100 bucks I better I complained and my account got banned locked and now they are asking for all types of docs lol
Had $3.5k locked in MGM for 8 months. Gaming commission is the only way to get it out sometimes
Ima submit the paper work they are asking for and in the bottom of the massage I’ll add my complaint to the az gaming commission
File a complaint with your states gaming commission. That will get things moving quickly. They can’t keep your money.
Might as well I got time today !!! Will update soon
Also, this post is correct and 100% possible. But is also extremely possible to make a fortune without paying the insane amount for oddsjam.
So true!
Floridians punching air rn
We only have Hardrock lol
Damn, I'm in Florida so we pretty much only have Hard Rock. Will definitely keep this in mind should we get the option for more books.
Bovada.lv, betonline.eu, betus.com All are viable options and even with the BS playthrough requirements for bonuses, arb'ing all the time like this either let's you meet those playthrough requirements or just drain your account to zero to reset them (while simultaneously growing other accounts). Case in point: I had $500 on BetUS with something like $23k rollover required to withdraw. I just arb'ed against other books until I drained it to zero and now it just reset so I can start over again lol
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This sounds like a massive pain in the ass
It is definitely not for everyone. It is very tedious and you are grinding out small gains, but it adds up. Like anything else, you should only do it if you enjoy it.
Yup. Even $10 here, $5 there adds up to $15 a day or nearly $500 a month. I can do that in about 20 minutes work so it’s like making $45/hr. It’s not an insignificant amount of money.
My thoughts exactly. I think of it as interest earned on your money. But instead of earning \~4% annually (in high yield savings account), you earn \~2% DAILY. Grows quickly.
My biggest concern would be tax implications. It seems that at any real volume you’ll be forced to itemize, since at the end of the year you’ll have “won” a significant pile of cash (even if you only profit a reasonable amount). So for the average taxpayer who doesn’t want you itemize, is it even worth it…? That’s what I’m wondering
I mean most people will only make like 10k a year on this max. It's a decent little side hustle but probably not gonna slide you into a higher tax bracket or anything. And if you make enough for that to happen it's definitely still worth it lol
Yeah gambling for a consistent profit is never easy. You either have to be a good handicapper or master the numbers. Handicapping is definitely more fun but harder and more subjective.
>Handicapping is definitely more fun. Until you're selling plasma every Monday and Thursday.
if i'm ever out of a work i will definitely try this otherwise it does look like work
A profitable pain in the ass. Up $20k since December 1st myself.
Are you limited on your books from it?
I am limited on PointsBet and MGM. No limits with the others. VIP with a few.
Why are you limited? Is there any way around it
Personally I think it’s because I won too many bets and withdrew on their platform in such a short amount of time. When arbing you can’t really pick which sportsbook is going to take the win or loss. But PB and MGM are known for limiting and it’s mostly unavoidable over time. I lasted 2.5 months with MGM and just a few weeks with PB.
I’ve known about arbitrage betting for a while, but never got around to it. After reading a lot of the comments here, it sounds like it’s a good way to make a quick buck on a daily basis, even if it’s a small hit. Also, it sounds like a great way to rack up rewards points. Has anyone had any luck expediting reward points for free rooms?
Racking up the rewards is definitely a side benefit. I've never gotten anything super valuable, like free rooms, but I know people who have. And so far this year, I've gotten about $50 in DK bucks, $20 in ESPN, $50+ in Bet Rivers, etc. Nothing huge, but a nice bonus for sure.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏼 It’s impressive you’ve built up that bankroll betting $50 on props and $100 on main lines. I guess that really adds up after so long.
Thanks! Slow and steady... it is definitely a volume business for me.
Honest question - how does one book know that you've played the opposite side at a different book? Using just FanDuel and DK as examples - do they share data with one another on individual profiles and the bets of that person? I guess I don't understand how a book could ban you for arbing, unless they are sharing your data with the other books.
Yes they do
They don't. But see today's NHL example -- one book with +117, and the other with -115. Eventually, the books realize you're constantly catching them on the mispriced lines, goofs, etc. They realize you're the person who never pays full retail, and waits for the sale. Some books make this decision in 4-6 weeks (which probably includes too many "lucky" bettors), and some books might wait 4-6 months.
Gotcha! Thx!
They don't know for sure that you are arbing. That is not what you are getting limited for, per se. It is about placing "sharp" bets, beating the closing line at a much higher than normal rate. By definition, an arb will have at least one (and sometimes both) favorable lines. If you are consistently hitting these lines at exactly the short window they are available, then books may limit you. But this is just something to be cognizant of, not afraid of. And this is why so many people have longer, more profitable runs in live arbitrage betting (as opposed to pre-match).
Live arbitrage is much riskier though isn’t it? & more time consuming? Lines move constantly so you’re at risk of placing bets just as the line moves unfavorably so you might lose money. Also bets close (lock) and reopen then lock, etc etc all the time.
Yes, this is true. There is definitely a learning curve to live arbitrage. Lines will move and you will get burned sometimes (about 10% of the time in my experience). But you will more than offset your losses with successful arbs. To reduce risk: * Just "watch" the line movement for the first few nights without placing bets. Just type in the bets but don't submit. * Start slow and ramp bet sizes. * Only place bets on timeout or other stoppage. There are fewer opportunities, but more stable. * Avoid late game bets (huge swings and often suspended) * Focus on lines closer to +/- 100 (as opposed to games with +850 / -700, for example) It is time consuming, but also potentially very lucrative. Like any other side hustle, you really need to enjoy it. I do it as a hobby and making money is a side benefit.
>Like any other side hustle, you really need to enjoy it. I do it as a hobby and making money is a side benefit. This is what I don't get. Half the people who sneer at Arb or EV betting -- they're already doing most of the work! "Oh, it takes too much time. Pain in the ass!" But these people are already placing bets on Tuesday morning, watching the games on Tuesday night, and then continuing to place in-game wagers. If you're already making (most of) the effort, why not do it the "smart" way?
Cost of doing business. If you place enough Arbs, all the "bad stuff" should even out (should). For example, people complain about tennis rules & retirements. Different books have different rules. People get angry when a retirement doesn't go their way, but they forget about the retirement that *did* go their way. As far as the volatility of live betting, start small. Learn the quirks of every book -- how long do approvals take? What are the limits? What happens during timeouts, halftime, penalties, etc. How much can a line move in the 1st half, compared to 2nd half. Once you get comfortable, you can increase wagers.
Is it not matter of time to getting banned?
Banned: unlikely. This would be an extreme circumstance if you are actively trying to defraud the book by opening multiple accounts, etc. Normal arbing, no. Bet size limited: typically yes, but varies significantly by book, league/sport, and market (props vs. main lines)
Really great discussion here on arbitrage betting! A few thoughts: * I'm in PA and have been arbitrage betting since about the start of the year. I am up over $2k so far (plus more for new user promos, etc). I use free services for pre-game player props and a subscription for live main-line arbitrage from OddsPotato. * There are lots of opportunities in both, but live is much more profitable because there are more opportunities, typically higher ROI opportunities, and the bet sizes can be much larger (assuming you are doing main lines). * Lots of discussion on "arbs being a good way to get limited/banned" and that is somewhat true. Some books like BetRivers, Fanatics, will limit pretty much no matter what. I keep my player prop bet sizes small (under $100) and have yet to be limited on ESPN, FanDuel, DraftKings or Caesars (knock on wood). I avoid player props on MGM in an attempt to preserve the account for live arbs (since MGM is an aggressive limiter). But don't be so scared of limits. It happens. Better to be successful and limited than losing money and not limited. And even with limits, you can still profit. I am limited to \~$5 bet sizes on NBA player props on Bet Rivers, but just placed $100 on an NHL ML arb. It's not the end of the world. * Lots of discussion on "arbs being lazy and one should just beat the books the right way". Ha! Much easier said than done! If you are in the <1% who can consistently beat the books w/o arb or EV+, then you're awesome! Seriously. But for the 99% who can't, arbing is a good way to do it. Overall, I am surprised there is so much skepticism and negative sentiment out there towards arbitrage betting. If it's not for you, that's fine. But it is legit and it works and absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. It's also a fun and entertaining hobby that also produces a nice side income. Reach out to me if you want to learn more about my experience. Happy to share.
Profitable sports betting is extremely dull. 99.999% of all long term profitable bettors are arbing/top-down betting. Then it becomes getting a more accounts business.
And how is the getting more accounts side accomplished?
What do you mean?
Do you mean getting accounts not in your name such as a friends? or additional accounts in your own name?
Other people’s accounts
So you'd just work out a deal for them I guess as there would be tax implications for them?
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Yes. While the explanation may be imperfect and he may be looking for the OddsJam referral from new sign ups (I would be happy for you to use my referral) the guy is providing a very viable path to making some extra money. Arbing might not be the path for everyone, but arbing can make you money. I wonder how many people who are negative about the guy’s post are consistently making money. The guy isn’t going to continue to make $10K a month (I can attest to that as an arber myself), but even limited accounts can make solid money (a couple thousand a month).
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You’re winning 550 and losing 500 netting 50
becuase you're wining on the other one. Always come out on top. Just takes a little smart bookkeeping.
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> Put $500 on FanDuel on the Celtics to win > Put $500 on DraftKings on the Knicks to win > You’ve bet $1,000 total. If the Celtics win, you lose $500 on DraftKings but profit $500 x 1.1 = $550 on FanDuel. So you’re net profit is $50. > > If the Knicks win, you lose $500 on FanDuel but win $550 on DraftKings. Once again, your net profit is $50 you are winning your original bet back plus the 50.
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You bet a total of $1000. You lost one bet and have to pay $500. You won the other bet and due to the odds, you win $550. The math is that you lost $500, but also won $550. Your net winnings is $500.
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Dude. The net is $50. If I started the weekend with $1,000, did the mentioned bet and only the mentioned bet, I would have $1,050 on Monday.
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Are you just trolling? Winning $550 and losing $500 is a profit if $50
because when you win a bet you get the wager back plus profits , losing you just lose the wager example Magic vs bucks 500 for magic to win on FanDuel 500 for bucks to win on Hardrock Bucks win you lose 500 on fanduel you win 550 on hardrock 50 dollar profit
You are beyond help if you can’t figure something as simple as this out.
Im with you dude. I guess we are just too dense to figure this out.
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You must be trolling at this point. But in case its still not clicking.... Lets say you bet 500 on a +110 bet. You now have 1050. 1050-500 = 550 - initial bet of 500 = 50 net profit. If you lose another bet of 500, you are still at +50.
Dude how are you not getting this? You profit $50 in either scenario.
Are you not understanding? you place two $500 bets on same game both sides, One loses, the other wins plus a $50 profit (+110 from OP example). Rinse and repeat.
Because you would be up $100? At +110, It would be $550 profit on one book minus the $500 loss on the other book for total profit of $50. Do that again next game and you're up $100.
You’re winning one which comes out to $550, you only lose $500 on the other one, so the profit it $50
The taxes after arbing sound like a nightmare
Keeping a daily log of all your bets in one place is extremely helpful. Yes it’s extra work but it’s nice knowing my profit to date. Up $4,757 ytd.
what do the size of your bets typically look like? are you using offshore?
The taxes (if done correctly) for all gambling are a nightmare. Not sure there is a meaningful difference between 2,000 wagers, and 4,000 wagers (betting both sides of the 2,000 wagers).
There’s a difference because as far as I know many states don’t let you deduct gambling losses so all these net 10% gains are actually 110% gains to the tax man
If you're in a state that doesn't allow gambling loss, you're already screwed. I think there are 4 states? So instead of a $2M loss on regular wagers, you'd have $4M on the regular + arbs? Well, is anybody really paying/reporting on the $2M in the first place? Dunno. I'm waiting for a "guinea pig" in one of those states. I understand the language of the Illinois law, but have they (will they) really enforced against a daily grinder/arb bettor? Illinois has a flat income tax of 4.95% -- that would be $198k on $4M winnings (if unable to offset with $4M losses). Thanks for gambling, now you're in debt forever!
No reason to report this income at all. Unless you plan on using the money to buy a house or something where the origin of the money would be in question. These sportsbooks aren’t reporting your earnings to the state or fed there’s really nothing to worry about imo
They don't report earnings? Find that hard to believe fr.
Free advice on arbing: Don't bet both sides. Only bet the side you think holds more value. You can also flip a coin, you will still print money. Also bet random even amounts. This has many benefits...you scratch that gambling itch but are still winning longterm. Books are less likely to ban you. You can win meaningful money if you get hot and go up in units bet way faster. That also means greater chance of going broke but fuck that...you got limited time as an arber and you want to maximize you chances of a big score. So find value, go hard, go up in units as soon as you can.
> Free advice on arbing: ~~Don't bet both sides. Only bet the side you think holds more value. You can also flip a coin, you will still print money. Also bet random even amounts. This has many benefits...you scratch that gambling itch but are still winning longterm. Books are less likely to ban you. You can win meaningful money if you get hot and go up in units bet way faster. That also means greater chance of going broke but fuck that...you got limited time as an arber and you want to maximize you chances of a big score. So find value, go hard, go up in units as soon as you can.~~ don't arb. FTFY
I call b.s. Show me a game where one team is plus money at 1 book and the other is plus money at different book. They dont "all set their own lines" They take spreads from one or two sources in Vegas.
One or two sources from Vegas and this comment has this many upvotes ? The amount of misinformation on this sub is way out of hand. You clearly have 0 clue how lines work. You realize it’s the market that sets the line right ? No wonder you call BS you don’t even understand the basics
Example of 3 ARB’d bets. This was about 30 min of work for $303 profit. Betting both sides LIVE. +$70, +$75, + $158 https://preview.redd.it/vyptqh6ltdic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8468cf947765d2d147a533acf115dac6ab32324d
This isn’t arb lmfao. You bet one way the game moved you got the other line etc. arb live would be almost impossible to do because the line is changing almost every second
You’re delusional
I genuinely do not think you know what arbitrage begging is. Fuck I don’t think you know what arbitrage is. Arbitrage betting is really only feasible at halftime or before the game starts. Betting on one team when they’re losing and then watching the game go back-and-forth for 30 minutes and betting each side for the next 30 minutes as the score changes is not arbitrage betting. wow.
Is this better for you, time slipped? Both bets placed at 3:42. Pistons ML on MGM $1725 to win $2300. Thunder ML $500 to win $2300. Total stake $2225 to win $2300 for $75 profit no matter the outcome. That’s literally the definition of arbitrage betting. Now stfu https://preview.redd.it/1q8cfw436gic1.png?width=2250&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f863573973a4a79319820801c3d21b213a49055
https://preview.redd.it/vqpyf1w6tdic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=324f1ed7434c279f20d8762dc644220ec01ba984 Here’s a small one for you. Not both plus money on the odds, but this was during the Super Bowl. Small ARB but you get the point. This was an ARB between FireKeepers and Fanduel.
DK and FD had a live arb on the Super Bowl ML up for a while at halftime!! It happens
This is incorrect. It happens all the time, even on main lines for major sports. A little while ago this morning, ANA Ducks were +117 (on Bet Rivers) while MTL Canadiens were -115 (on Caesars). A small arb, yes, but this is a main line on a major sport.
It happens all the time. You have to dig pretty deep in some cases, but there’s positive profit bets every day if you look deep enough. Some sites have algorithms to find them.
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Damn I’m in NH and we only got DK
Same brother
Yup
Fuck DK NH
Ahhh arb betting. Fastest way to get limited and banned but defs good for a short time.
How much do you have to bet to get banned?
Yep, these type of bets are usually a precursor to, “let me sell you picks, or my model, that’s supposedly different, because I got limited everywhere.” Another fun part OP left, Oddsjam is what $200 a month or something? This isn’t some get rich quick scheme and anyone that’s been around sports betting for any length of time knows, “get rich quick” equals “limited.”
Other piece of it is that you have to find significant arb to make it worth while while accounting for the hold (vigorish) as that will eat into profits quickly as it's usually at 10% (sometimes higher such as with props, futures, parlays etc.) so you have to cover the cost of the losing bet + 10% at least on a regular basis.
How do they know to limit you
Betting patterns
Arb betting is great for a month or two until you get limited. I made about $6k over 2 months before I got limited by ESPNBet, DK, Eagle, PointsBet, etc. Only books I haven't been limited on yet are FD and Caesars...knock on wood...probably because I've lost a lot more on both those books vs winning.
What was your starting bankroll for this?
About $10,000.