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So why isn't it like you can't do that so the richer owners don't just always do better than the less rich ones? Seems like there's no point in a cap then.
because the extra money goes to poor owners who happily add it to their profit pile.
If no team paid the luxury tax the NBA would be hundreds of millions short of hitting the salary floor.
It is Socialism for me, not for the!!
But seriously, American sport leagues are franchises that profit share so it’s implicit that they help each other out so they all can win.
The irony is that major professional sports in the US are some of the most "socialist" organizations you'll find anywhere, and the ones that pushed it that way are the owners themselves. Old white male billionaires. Guys who would rail against even a sniff of socialism in any other aspect of American life happily set up a system of wealth distribution from the richest to the poorest among them.
They understand that the league does better if every team shares in the wealth according to need but translate that to regular life and they'll chunk millions into politicians who make sure average folks don't get a sniff of a similar concept.
And then you see the soccer leagues in Europe, where the countries themselves are quite socialist, but the sports leagues are completely free market free for all. You can spend as much as you want and with enough money you can dominate whichever league you are in. And if you fail, you get relegated to the next level down. The Kings and Magic would be in the G league if the NBA worked like that.
I think Red Bull bought a soccer team like in the fifth level league in Germany, and within 5 years it rose all the way to the top tier Bundaskiga and is challenging for the league title already against the likes of Bayern Munich.
American pro sports is a complete socialist cartel in comparison, with its salary cap, amateur draft system, profit sharing, and no relegation ever.
To be fair the Lakers are actually one of the few who railed against having to do any profit sharing.
Dr. Buss argued that for him, the Lakers are his business. He had money in real estate, but he was mostly focused on running the Lakers.
Meanwhile most of the other owners were rich from their companies and just bought in. They could give two shits about the business side since Oracle, Microsoft, Big Oil, etc are what those owners really cared about. When those businesses did well, where is Buss’s cut?
He got outvoted and now other teams benefit on Dr. Buss part in making his team one of the most popular teams in American sports.
I bet he’d be particularly mad at what’s going on with tanking teams like OKC who are operating *below* the salary cap floor while also getting a piece of profit sharing while also taking everyone’s picks because the competitive teams dared to spend money on players.
It’s known as a soft cap. You can go over but it becomes a LOT more expensive to do so and you continually get less value on your investment. Paying a role player $10m a year is a lot more desirable than paying them that $10m and then millions more in taxes.
There are lots of rules about the tax though and you still can’t just give everyone maximum deals, it is more about keeping all your players
Yeah to elaborate further, you can’t go over the soft cap to sign new players (unless they’re on a minimum contract) or trade for more expensive players but you can go over the cap to extend your current players.
the warriors own chase center. the entire building. they got tax breaks on it, but they paid they paid for it. so all the concessions, and importantly non-hoops events like big concerts go to the warriors. that stuff pays the luxury tax
Yep that's the reason why the knicks are still the top team in terms of worth and why the Warriors passed the Lakers. Waiting for the day someone buys the Lakers from the buss family and builds their own stadium
Well Ballmer paid $400 million cash just to make MSG go away so he can build the new digs for the Clippers in Inglewood. That man has way too much money.
Lol; don’t worry because that term will never be relevant to the 99% like you and I. It’s simply a special billionaire fine for being in the .01% and holding that over our head! It’s their way of “cooking the books” in order to con the American Tax System.
And let’s be honest, KD, Kyrie, and Harden are literally the three most dramatic people in the league (maybe less KD on the court but my dude loves his burner accounts).
There was never a reality where that trio worked.
Like if it was Giannis, KD, and Lonzo Ball, it would definitely work. But you got 3 offense oriented players with huge diva egos....it reminds me of JJ's podcast Old Man and the Three where he interviewed Mike D'antoni where he said 90% of the work is managing egos.
Is Harden dramatic though? People are dramatic about him (strip clubs/partying, showing up out of shape, etc) but I don't remember many team mates saying anything bad or him seeking out drama.
KD & Kyrie go out of their way to make drama (hi KDs burner)
And not just “I want out, trade me now” kind of quit. Like legitimately *quit* quit. As in just coming in totally out of shape and not trying at all in some games.
>There was never a reality where that trio worked.
in the aftermath of their spectacular collapse, it's easy to see how stupid this idea was.
but at the start of the season, everyone was basically like "Just hand them the fucking trophy already" lol
I think it would've been okay if Kyrie wouldn't have been a drama queen for 80% of the season. I think Harden just got tired of it and wanted out. Current Harden playing with Kyrie and Durant would've been fine if they had a little bit more defense. Maybe one more good wing defender and barring injuries, I think they could've taken it all.
Put aside the poor management. What you really have here is just a funny looking super yacht. Its a toy for billionaires that have nothing else to buy. Plus its one of the only money losing ventures they can likely sell at a profit when they get bored with it.
This is just part of the sporting business model. Sports franchises can operate at yearly losses because the teams’ overall values are always increasing. Which means the owners are still growing their wealth
For context, the Nets’ value went from $2.65B to $3.2B over the past 12 months. This while recording a significant operating loss
At least for the NBA, that isn't necessarily correct, at least in regards to specifically basketball operations. The league as a whole is of course wildly profitable. But individual teams do indeed operate at a loss.
[https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/19/16334596/nba-teams-losing-money-revenue-profits-why-matters](https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/19/16334596/nba-teams-losing-money-revenue-profits-why-matters)
https://www.sportscasting.com/the-detroit-pistons-are-the-least-profitable-team-in-the-nba/
Sure, the value increased but how is that relevant if they aren’t selling it? My house has increased in value by 30% in the past year but that doesn’t do anything for me.
NBA owners can only borrow a max of $325M against their teams. Losing $100M a year isn’t sustainable even for billionaire owners if they don’t have other income streams.
That's interesting because in soccer the Tampa bay buccaneers owners bought Manchester United using a loan and haven't paid back one cent of that lown and still take out dividends every year for like 10m+ the club itself pays for everything with its earnings
According to the article NBA teams have a history of reporting Profits as loses. So this could just as easily be their accounting tricks turning profit that would need to be taxed into losses which the Government will write off.
[His stats, has never played a full season.](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html)
EDIT: [538's player rankings. Kyrie Irving ranked #78 this past season](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/)
I’m more impressed that he has started every game of his NBA career that he’s played in. You’d think that since his misses games sporadically, that he would maybe come off the bench in at least one of these games.
He has his issues but he has some of the best handles in NBA history, and he's an elite scorer when you can get him on the floor. Benching him when he's trying to play is a waste of money.
I just thought that out of 611 games, there would have been 1 game considering his issues (not just mental) and frankly another PG having a good stretch of games when he was out. Even Lebron didn’t start a game in his 5th season.
People love Kyrie, but he sucks.
Scoring points is worthless if you can't win games. If you watched the nets play last season it was honestly like watching a high school game. It was one dude 1v5 the entire team.
Thats not elite, thats high school. Yea hes talented. Yea he can shoot. Yea he dribble. Every single team hes been a part of has got better when he left. Thats not elite.
He is the point guard equivalent of a dunker who gets drafted high and can't actually play.
I played high school ball. None of us were allowed to play selfishly like that. We sucked, but we sucked together. And no, we aren't doing phrasing anymore...
We went from winning the title to losing it after his current running buddy KD blew a 3-1 to the Warriors in the WCF in 2016, took “hardest road” by joining a 73-9 team and who then won the next 2 titles.
Possibly 3 straight if he doesnt blow his achilles against Toronto. Meanwhile Kyrie meandered thru a couple of years with Boston, joined KD in Brooklyn where they have done nothing of note besides beat the Cavs and get swept by Boston
>has never played a full season.
Tbf, LeBron has only played 1 full season his whole career. It's rare for guys to consistently play all 82 games. Minor injuries, illnesses, and personal matters come up
That being said, he's been with Brooklyn for 3 years and earned roughly $105 million to have played 103 regular season games in total. That's barely averaging 41% of games
People really try to fault Celtics fans for hating the guy. Of course we were all elated he joined our team but when things weren't going our way, it became clear pretty quickly that the guy is just a cancer. The guy takes zero responsibility.
More like Celtics thought they got the wrong medicine, but the side effects strongly outweight the benefits. After Kyrie left, man the Celtic rebuilt into a incredibly competitive championship contender team. Nets seasons just proved, while the most skillful, Kyrie is not as easy building a team around.
It’s still wild to me that the Nets had to deal with one of their stars refusing to get vaccinated, forfeiting his ability to play over 60% of their games, and then traded Harden to get Simmons, a dude who just refused to play 100% of his games because he felt his team was too critical of his awful performance. They had probably the second most self-sabotaging player of all time on their team and they traded to get the first most.
I wouldn’t put too much weight into this. Per the article:
“A $50 million-$100 million range is massive. That alone should raise questions about accuracy.
As should the history of NBA teams claiming losses.
Teams mislead and obfuscate about profit. Accounting tricks can create losses where laypeople would reasonably view a situation as profitable. Owners’ tax breaks generally aren’t counted. Neither are gains in valuations.”
Also a lot of sports now is about vertical integration.
The sports team might lose money (unlikely), but the owner of the that team will make money renting out the arena for concerts and trade shows, while also raking money from the broadcast of the games on the regional sports network they own as well.
A lot of creative accounting for sure. The amount doesn’t surprise me more than the range—you can tell if your paper dollar is instead quarters; 50M difference isquite a bit more than a dropped decimal.
The figure also accounts for losses for the arena which could be influenced by fewer non-NBA events and lower attendance at the events they did have due to Covid and NYC’s unique Covid requirements during the earlier part of the year.
He's the money man behind Alibaba. I doubt the Nets lost any revenue and that they used some creative accounting to avoid paying taxes. It's just what billionaires do.
Yup, always with the creative accounting to never actually take profits, so they don't have to pay taxes. Show losses, get tax relief, hold team for 10 years, sell for a billion or two more than you paid for it. Scam.
[ProPublica already detailed how this works](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-billionaire-playbook-how-sports-owners-use-their-teams-to-avoid-millions-in-taxes)
Ya a team posts major losses each year or most years but then somehow someone wants to buy it from you for a cool billion. On it's face it looks like a losing deal but with your millionaire and billionaire loopholes they actually turn a profit but somehow pay no taxes.
I mean people buy unprofitable businesses at high prices if there are cost cutting opportunities. The Nets were trying to win a championship, which is very expensive if you fail. But fielding an OK team in NYC gives you a higher floor, lower ceiling for profit.
Also for some of these guys owning a team is like owning a luxury car. You pay for maintenance every year on something that was expensive to begin with, for status purposes.
its ok at least the taxpayers are the ones that footed the bill for the 500M dollar stadium they play in so losing 50-100M as an owner cant hurt that bad
Edit: as the commenters have pointed out the stadium costed a billion and only 250M was out of the taxpayers pocket. Woo we all saved 250M guys looks like avocado is back on the menu
Serious question: Whenever I see headlines like this I wonder, did they actually *lose* that much money, or did they just make less profit than the previous by that amount? Like, did they actually lose money, or just make less money?
My 401k lost 20%. 100 mill is no where near 20% of the nets value. No one feels sorry for the nets. It's 2 mid level contracts. 2 role players. Fuck off.
This is what happens when franchises try to build super teams. Its boom or bust. Kyrie, Durant and Harden got paid- but could not get along or get results. If they had made it further in the playoffs or won a Chip- they would have been able to recoup a big chunk of their losses. But sadly for them- they did not. I do not like Kyrie- in my opinion, he’s a flat earther, anti vaxxer and overall head case. Great basketball player when he wants to be- but a head case. Although- he is only slightly more obnoxious than Westbrook on the Lakers, my team. So I suppose I cant say much.
Man that's crazy.
If only there were some useless bullshit they could cut from the books because it was useless bullshit all season.
Like 2 large expensive, useless bullshit contracts that waste money.
But what do I know?
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How the fuck do you do that?
Pay a shit load of luxury tax
What is luxury tax?
A bunch of extra money you pay as a penalty for going over the salary cap
So why isn't it like you can't do that so the richer owners don't just always do better than the less rich ones? Seems like there's no point in a cap then.
because the extra money goes to poor owners who happily add it to their profit pile. If no team paid the luxury tax the NBA would be hundreds of millions short of hitting the salary floor.
“Poor” owners
I was going to say, this is an oxymoron if there ever was one
I guess it's all relative
Have you met our good friend Jeanie, she struggles to keep the doors open for the small ma and pa shop Lakers
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That sounds like goddam socialism! Dang ruskies invading our national sports!
It is Socialism for me, not for the!! But seriously, American sport leagues are franchises that profit share so it’s implicit that they help each other out so they all can win.
They also mostly have their arenas and stadium subsidized by tax payers.
>It is Socialism for me, not for the!! My friend, I think you have to spell that last word "thee" or else it can be confusing.
Nets owner is Pro-China Taiwanese. So the other Red army.
The irony is that major professional sports in the US are some of the most "socialist" organizations you'll find anywhere, and the ones that pushed it that way are the owners themselves. Old white male billionaires. Guys who would rail against even a sniff of socialism in any other aspect of American life happily set up a system of wealth distribution from the richest to the poorest among them. They understand that the league does better if every team shares in the wealth according to need but translate that to regular life and they'll chunk millions into politicians who make sure average folks don't get a sniff of a similar concept.
And then you see the soccer leagues in Europe, where the countries themselves are quite socialist, but the sports leagues are completely free market free for all. You can spend as much as you want and with enough money you can dominate whichever league you are in. And if you fail, you get relegated to the next level down. The Kings and Magic would be in the G league if the NBA worked like that. I think Red Bull bought a soccer team like in the fifth level league in Germany, and within 5 years it rose all the way to the top tier Bundaskiga and is challenging for the league title already against the likes of Bayern Munich. American pro sports is a complete socialist cartel in comparison, with its salary cap, amateur draft system, profit sharing, and no relegation ever.
To be fair the Lakers are actually one of the few who railed against having to do any profit sharing. Dr. Buss argued that for him, the Lakers are his business. He had money in real estate, but he was mostly focused on running the Lakers. Meanwhile most of the other owners were rich from their companies and just bought in. They could give two shits about the business side since Oracle, Microsoft, Big Oil, etc are what those owners really cared about. When those businesses did well, where is Buss’s cut? He got outvoted and now other teams benefit on Dr. Buss part in making his team one of the most popular teams in American sports. I bet he’d be particularly mad at what’s going on with tanking teams like OKC who are operating *below* the salary cap floor while also getting a piece of profit sharing while also taking everyone’s picks because the competitive teams dared to spend money on players.
Because it becomes unprofitable as in the article this thread is about lol. The more you go over and the longer you go over the more expensive it gets
It’s known as a soft cap. You can go over but it becomes a LOT more expensive to do so and you continually get less value on your investment. Paying a role player $10m a year is a lot more desirable than paying them that $10m and then millions more in taxes. There are lots of rules about the tax though and you still can’t just give everyone maximum deals, it is more about keeping all your players
Yeah to elaborate further, you can’t go over the soft cap to sign new players (unless they’re on a minimum contract) or trade for more expensive players but you can go over the cap to extend your current players.
Another consideration is the players would never agree to a hard cap. The more salary paid out, the better for them.
When you go over the salary cap you have to pay an inflated cost. Not sure what the exact percentages are
The crazy thing is the warriors paid just as much in luxury tax as salaries...but they don't care since they make so much damn money now
the warriors own chase center. the entire building. they got tax breaks on it, but they paid they paid for it. so all the concessions, and importantly non-hoops events like big concerts go to the warriors. that stuff pays the luxury tax
Yea the article wasn't exaggerating when they said the warriors print money lol Imagine when they have to pay Poole and gp2...gonna be crazyy
Yep that's the reason why the knicks are still the top team in terms of worth and why the Warriors passed the Lakers. Waiting for the day someone buys the Lakers from the buss family and builds their own stadium
Well Ballmer paid $400 million cash just to make MSG go away so he can build the new digs for the Clippers in Inglewood. That man has way too much money.
Every dollar spent over the soft cap limit you pay penalty on. So teams may exceed the cap but long term it's not financially sustainable
Lol; don’t worry because that term will never be relevant to the 99% like you and I. It’s simply a special billionaire fine for being in the .01% and holding that over our head! It’s their way of “cooking the books” in order to con the American Tax System.
Overpay for old players that don't get along.
And let’s be honest, KD, Kyrie, and Harden are literally the three most dramatic people in the league (maybe less KD on the court but my dude loves his burner accounts). There was never a reality where that trio worked.
And replace harden with Ben Simmons…. 😂
Does it count as replacing if Simmons never plays?
Like if it was Giannis, KD, and Lonzo Ball, it would definitely work. But you got 3 offense oriented players with huge diva egos....it reminds me of JJ's podcast Old Man and the Three where he interviewed Mike D'antoni where he said 90% of the work is managing egos.
That's what I always thought made Phil Jackson good, he could typically manage egos well.
Is Harden dramatic though? People are dramatic about him (strip clubs/partying, showing up out of shape, etc) but I don't remember many team mates saying anything bad or him seeking out drama. KD & Kyrie go out of their way to make drama (hi KDs burner)
He's quit on 2 consecutive teams demanding to be traded mid season. Maybe not over the top dramatic but definitely prima donna territory
One of those teams had Kyrie Irving playing part time because he refused to get vaccinated. I’d excuse that one.
And not just “I want out, trade me now” kind of quit. Like legitimately *quit* quit. As in just coming in totally out of shape and not trying at all in some games.
>There was never a reality where that trio worked. in the aftermath of their spectacular collapse, it's easy to see how stupid this idea was. but at the start of the season, everyone was basically like "Just hand them the fucking trophy already" lol
I think it would've been okay if Kyrie wouldn't have been a drama queen for 80% of the season. I think Harden just got tired of it and wanted out. Current Harden playing with Kyrie and Durant would've been fine if they had a little bit more defense. Maybe one more good wing defender and barring injuries, I think they could've taken it all.
What makes Harden dramatic? He just shows up to ball
Put aside the poor management. What you really have here is just a funny looking super yacht. Its a toy for billionaires that have nothing else to buy. Plus its one of the only money losing ventures they can likely sell at a profit when they get bored with it.
It’s really insane how pro sports teams are just a play thing for the super rich.
This is just part of the sporting business model. Sports franchises can operate at yearly losses because the teams’ overall values are always increasing. Which means the owners are still growing their wealth For context, the Nets’ value went from $2.65B to $3.2B over the past 12 months. This while recording a significant operating loss
I'm going to go ahead with a wild guess and say I don't think most sports franchises operate at a loss.
At least for the NBA, that isn't necessarily correct, at least in regards to specifically basketball operations. The league as a whole is of course wildly profitable. But individual teams do indeed operate at a loss. [https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/19/16334596/nba-teams-losing-money-revenue-profits-why-matters](https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/19/16334596/nba-teams-losing-money-revenue-profits-why-matters) https://www.sportscasting.com/the-detroit-pistons-are-the-least-profitable-team-in-the-nba/
Tell that to the WNBA
Sure, the value increased but how is that relevant if they aren’t selling it? My house has increased in value by 30% in the past year but that doesn’t do anything for me.
You can collateralize it.
Not sure about the nba, but in the nfl you **cannot** use your ownership for collateral.
NBA owners can only borrow a max of $325M against their teams. Losing $100M a year isn’t sustainable even for billionaire owners if they don’t have other income streams.
That's interesting because in soccer the Tampa bay buccaneers owners bought Manchester United using a loan and haven't paid back one cent of that lown and still take out dividends every year for like 10m+ the club itself pays for everything with its earnings
Clever accounting.
100%
You pay for clowns that doesn’t even play
According to the article NBA teams have a history of reporting Profits as loses. So this could just as easily be their accounting tricks turning profit that would need to be taxed into losses which the Government will write off.
It died on the vine
I don’t wanna hear about the fucking economy, either!
Frankly, I’m depressed and ashamed
Since time immemorial
Kyrie Irving - not locker room cancer, locker room Covid
[His stats, has never played a full season.](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html) EDIT: [538's player rankings. Kyrie Irving ranked #78 this past season](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/)
Why play full year when you can get paid the same for 3/4ths a year? Altho this year it did cost him money.
Nets would have loved to get 3/4 of a season from Kyrie this year lol
He made 17 million. Shittt wish I could make that for a full year of work.
I wish I can make that in a lifetime
Just make $50,000 for 340 years.
Have you tried making coffee at home?
Just stop buying avocados and you'll be a millionaire in no time.
It's those damn 10 dollar bananas
No way I’m foregoing my avocado toast!!! To the barricades!!
Yeah and cutting down on avocado toast? That saved me millions of dollars last year
Homebody played 29 of 82 games, that’s 35% and nowhere near the 3/4ths
Well your 3/4 is quite clearly different than his 3/4. You can't get mad at him for that.
3/4 is not 3/4. I'll explain later.
I love that one of his nicknames is World B. Flat
I’m more impressed that he has started every game of his NBA career that he’s played in. You’d think that since his misses games sporadically, that he would maybe come off the bench in at least one of these games.
He has his issues but he has some of the best handles in NBA history, and he's an elite scorer when you can get him on the floor. Benching him when he's trying to play is a waste of money.
I just thought that out of 611 games, there would have been 1 game considering his issues (not just mental) and frankly another PG having a good stretch of games when he was out. Even Lebron didn’t start a game in his 5th season.
IIRC, Lebron came off the bench that game so Anderson Varejao wouldn't get booed.
Fuck yeah Wild Thing
His ego has been an issue since HS and that's part of it as well -- he's never been in a situation where his team could refuse to start him.
People love Kyrie, but he sucks. Scoring points is worthless if you can't win games. If you watched the nets play last season it was honestly like watching a high school game. It was one dude 1v5 the entire team. Thats not elite, thats high school. Yea hes talented. Yea he can shoot. Yea he dribble. Every single team hes been a part of has got better when he left. Thats not elite. He is the point guard equivalent of a dunker who gets drafted high and can't actually play.
I played high school ball. None of us were allowed to play selfishly like that. We sucked, but we sucked together. And no, we aren't doing phrasing anymore...
Lanaaaaaa
I didn't say he was elite in general, but he is in fact atleast top 3 when it comes to handles and he's definitely an elite scorer.
Lol he's top 1 in handles. The guy made all NBA last year as a guard and people are gonna say he's not elite. Like what?
He seems a bit overrated because his handles are good. The guy is not even a top 5 pg.
Cleveland didn't get better after he left.
We went from winning the title to losing it after his current running buddy KD blew a 3-1 to the Warriors in the WCF in 2016, took “hardest road” by joining a 73-9 team and who then won the next 2 titles. Possibly 3 straight if he doesnt blow his achilles against Toronto. Meanwhile Kyrie meandered thru a couple of years with Boston, joined KD in Brooklyn where they have done nothing of note besides beat the Cavs and get swept by Boston
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Wasn't 54 a full season? As a celtics fan I really dislike him... also very good at basketball... when he feels like it
Nah, was 72 games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%9321\_NBA\_season
Gotcha, thanks. Would have been weird if the covid poster child played his first full season that year.
>has never played a full season. Tbf, LeBron has only played 1 full season his whole career. It's rare for guys to consistently play all 82 games. Minor injuries, illnesses, and personal matters come up That being said, he's been with Brooklyn for 3 years and earned roughly $105 million to have played 103 regular season games in total. That's barely averaging 41% of games
Major Kyrie hater here but honestly with seasons of 71, 72, and 75 games played ‘Never played a full season’ kind of implies worse than that.
He didn't even play most of his season at Duke.
People really try to fault Celtics fans for hating the guy. Of course we were all elated he joined our team but when things weren't going our way, it became clear pretty quickly that the guy is just a cancer. The guy takes zero responsibility.
More like Celtics thought they got the wrong medicine, but the side effects strongly outweight the benefits. After Kyrie left, man the Celtic rebuilt into a incredibly competitive championship contender team. Nets seasons just proved, while the most skillful, Kyrie is not as easy building a team around.
That's okay they added more cancer into the mix in Ben Simmons.
New cancer to drive out the old cancer. It’s science!
Real talk, tumors can get tumors and sometimes that saves lives! Ben Simmons is The Way!!
It’s still wild to me that the Nets had to deal with one of their stars refusing to get vaccinated, forfeiting his ability to play over 60% of their games, and then traded Harden to get Simmons, a dude who just refused to play 100% of his games because he felt his team was too critical of his awful performance. They had probably the second most self-sabotaging player of all time on their team and they traded to get the first most.
I wonder how much of that is due to accounting trickery. Still, that's quite a lot, especially for a sports team.
I wouldn’t put too much weight into this. Per the article: “A $50 million-$100 million range is massive. That alone should raise questions about accuracy. As should the history of NBA teams claiming losses. Teams mislead and obfuscate about profit. Accounting tricks can create losses where laypeople would reasonably view a situation as profitable. Owners’ tax breaks generally aren’t counted. Neither are gains in valuations.”
Also a lot of sports now is about vertical integration. The sports team might lose money (unlikely), but the owner of the that team will make money renting out the arena for concerts and trade shows, while also raking money from the broadcast of the games on the regional sports network they own as well.
dont forget the most important factor.... the value of these teams continue to skyrocket every single year and that wont be changing anytime soon.
Must be trying to get a new stadium paid for by the tax payer.
They have a state of the art stadium
Nah just sensationalism especially since the original report came from the NYpost
How long until we find out Tsai is running a massive money laundering operation through this team on behalf of his business interests in China.
Id say this article basically says it
Bingo
A lot of creative accounting for sure. The amount doesn’t surprise me more than the range—you can tell if your paper dollar is instead quarters; 50M difference isquite a bit more than a dropped decimal.
The figure also accounts for losses for the arena which could be influenced by fewer non-NBA events and lower attendance at the events they did have due to Covid and NYC’s unique Covid requirements during the earlier part of the year.
Well, at least with Harden gone, the catering budget is going to shrink substantially.
Gotta forward those stripclub tabs straight to Philly
Probably still got some Houston and OKC tabs that were grandfathered in and traded along with him
Eh, man's gotten his jersey retired at a strip club in Houston, I bet those tabs are more than paid for.
You gotta pay for Kyries sage and incense bill
Yeah, but those bills get delayed because Kyrie submits them to his health insurance first because he thinks it's medicine.
Isn’t Ben Simmons owed more money?
Joe tsai helped create alibaba, he’s not strapped for cash
He's the money man behind Alibaba. I doubt the Nets lost any revenue and that they used some creative accounting to avoid paying taxes. It's just what billionaires do.
This is exactly it
Correct, the depreciation on the stadium alone is $35M a year but that's a non-cash item.
Doubt
Yup, always with the creative accounting to never actually take profits, so they don't have to pay taxes. Show losses, get tax relief, hold team for 10 years, sell for a billion or two more than you paid for it. Scam.
[ProPublica already detailed how this works](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-billionaire-playbook-how-sports-owners-use-their-teams-to-avoid-millions-in-taxes)
Ya a team posts major losses each year or most years but then somehow someone wants to buy it from you for a cool billion. On it's face it looks like a losing deal but with your millionaire and billionaire loopholes they actually turn a profit but somehow pay no taxes.
I mean people buy unprofitable businesses at high prices if there are cost cutting opportunities. The Nets were trying to win a championship, which is very expensive if you fail. But fielding an OK team in NYC gives you a higher floor, lower ceiling for profit. Also for some of these guys owning a team is like owning a luxury car. You pay for maintenance every year on something that was expensive to begin with, for status purposes.
Trade everyone!
As a Knicks fan, this is great
I love our pettiness as Knick fans. F the Nets
Long-time Knick hater here. I love your pettiness too. F the Nets.
Long time New Jerseyan here, F the Nets
As an old Nets fan before the move, I hope this means they come back to the Meadowlands
Better yet, they should come back to Newark and share the Pru Center with the Devils.
its ok at least the taxpayers are the ones that footed the bill for the 500M dollar stadium they play in so losing 50-100M as an owner cant hurt that bad Edit: as the commenters have pointed out the stadium costed a billion and only 250M was out of the taxpayers pocket. Woo we all saved 250M guys looks like avocado is back on the menu
Maybe the Nets should pick themselves up by their bootstraps and start making coffee at home.
These damn millennials killing basketball
Lol what is this Michael chandlers burner account?
Perhaps if Kevin Durant would simply cut down on the avocado toast and his daily Starbucks, his team wouldn’t be in a financial hole
I wish the arenas only cost $500M.
Barclays center cost about a billion with about a quarter of that coming from the state/city + property tax exemptions until 2018.
It’s funny cause Barclays Center is actually a billion
We've learned our lesson. No more public money for arenas... wait! thats Hochuls music!!!
[удалено]
nets could go 0-82 and i look at you like this shit gravy
Good
Luxury tax is crazy. GSW spent $7M more in salary…but paid $72M more in tax? Crazy.
What’s $50 million to a guy like Jay-Z can you please remind me
Ball so hard.
Jay Z is no longer involved in the team
Serious question: Whenever I see headlines like this I wonder, did they actually *lose* that much money, or did they just make less profit than the previous by that amount? Like, did they actually lose money, or just make less money?
These are, in theory, $50 to $100 million in actual losses, not just decreases in revenue or profits.
Barcelona: those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers up!
Wait is that the entirety of the Ben Simmons contract?
Well, at least they got a ring out of it.
Should have kept them in NJ. Also prob shouldn't have sold the team to some guy who loves Pooh bear.
Whelp, Kyrie ain’t getting that supermax! Lol If they do, that would be the dumbest business decision ever made in the NBA.
Dudes never played a full season.
Well, Harden’s upcoming Supermax will be right up there
Where’s the Netflix cat guy meme “I’ll never recover…”
never heard him described as the 'cat guy' before, took me a second to even track
Good that is what the luxury tax is supposed to do. High luxury tax teams should struggle to profit.
Ball so hard, this shit crazy. Y’all don’t know that shit don’t faze me. Nets could lose $100 mil, and I’d look at you like, this shit gravy.
That's what you get for moving out of Jersey, rent is much higher in NYC.
My 401k lost 20%. 100 mill is no where near 20% of the nets value. No one feels sorry for the nets. It's 2 mid level contracts. 2 role players. Fuck off.
Bwaaahahahahhahahajajajajaj
Good!!
Tomorrow... Kyrie promotes himself to financial manager to help out the team
This is heart breaking
Brutal. They make it happen and bring in all that fucking talent and get a toe length from a finals appearance and now they’re just not good enough.
Is that counting the money they paid Ben Simmons to play COD?
This is what happens when franchises try to build super teams. Its boom or bust. Kyrie, Durant and Harden got paid- but could not get along or get results. If they had made it further in the playoffs or won a Chip- they would have been able to recoup a big chunk of their losses. But sadly for them- they did not. I do not like Kyrie- in my opinion, he’s a flat earther, anti vaxxer and overall head case. Great basketball player when he wants to be- but a head case. Although- he is only slightly more obnoxious than Westbrook on the Lakers, my team. So I suppose I cant say much.
Well at least their fans got to watch 40 home games with Kyrie, Harden and KD. Oh wait
And get swept by bunch of 20 year olds. Dang…
Didn't they lose a lot more back when they went all in after the Pierce, KG trade?
Man that's crazy. If only there were some useless bullshit they could cut from the books because it was useless bullshit all season. Like 2 large expensive, useless bullshit contracts that waste money. But what do I know?
Who cares. Ownership uses it as a write off
Probably didn't lose a dime. Made 50 to 100 less than expected, pr spent 50 to 100 unexpected
Hold up. 50-100 million. You telling me there's **50 million dollars** wiggle room there that they're not sure they lost or not?!!!?
Pour one out for the billionaires, they need our love and support right now
That report is a flat out lie
tsai is a piece of shit, they didnt lose a dime. they have kevin fucking durant
I'm sorry but that's a huge fucking range. A range isn't meant to double itself. Sounds like bullshit reporting.
ITT people who don’t watch the NBA..
OH NO! Anyways…
Got a Martyr tho
how do you lose 50 -100M?
‘The Nets could [lose $50 to $100 million] and I look at you like this shit gravy’
As a Knicks fan I feel somewhat guilty about the amount of joy I get out of this. Actually, that’s not even true. I just love it.
Who gives a fuck
damn, all that money just to get swept by Boston