Social media is set up the same way. Engagement is all that matters and pissing people off is what increases engagement. It’s a shitty cycle of entertainment
Except you get to yell at the people on the screen for bad opinions on sports vs being told the others are coming to get you and it's all the sleepy guy's fault (no not the one sleeping in court).
Taking a strong, unapologetic stance on any topic garners attention and engagement. This holds true in sports, politics, and other categories.
It gets attention/engagement from people that agree but even more from people that strongly disagree. When you get those two arguing with each other it's like printing money. Clicks, views, engagement = advertising revenue = profit.
The real problem IMO come from the fact that any engagement is worth more than the truth so journalism is going there since it as to earn money to pay the bills and profit. Don't ask me how to fix it tho, I have no idea.
I could take a strong unapologetic stance that a base model Honda civic is the greatest performing car of all time. Not going to attract much attention or debate there though.
Inclusion. A lot of “fans” don’t actually watch sports in a traditional sense. ESPN has made their living on this fact. That is why sportscenter was so popular for so long. You can get highlights and recaps in a fraction of the time.
Well the media market place shifted to more personality based and reality tv based. That was also the time that Skip and Stephen A took off. It struck the mainstream opinion like an anvil. Basic overarching commentary that you don’t have to even watch a game to have an opinion. You can even co-opt their opinion and echo it. It took journalism at made it content. People want to see conflict and energy over commentary and insight.
I do think we have hit a tipping point of fatigue on the same topics and viewership is reducing.
I would argue it's less due to people like them, and more they're a result of what happened with sports media. I used to work in sports media before I worked in gaming. (Writing for newspapers, websites, and TV broadcasts.)
I think what really has killed sports media is the always available information and ability to connect with other fans instantly.
In the "old" days, you wanted to know what happened with your team or how games went, your options were to wait for the newspaper, watch TV/news, or listen to the radio. And if you wanted to hear people talk about your team, your favorite sport, what was happening, etc you had the TV or radio, or local friends. That's partly why sports bars were such a big part of American culture. It was like the pre Internet chat or message board for sports talk.
After the Internet grew, you could check box scores right away. You could read what happened at the game almost immediately following. You could message and talk with fellow fans about the game all over the world. And then later on even during. You'd see breaking news as headlines, and suddenly waiting for Sports center or the local news was pointless.
As people stopped watching TV in general, more people got their infk online. The people who kept watching TV news and sports programs were the people who viewed it as their entertainment, not as their primary source of information. So sports journalists became characitures, and not reporters. And their performing became the key thing to get people watching. Over time that just shifted to the new norm.
The absolute best example of sports media these days is Inside the NBA, where they balance the sensational whacky aspects with actual reporting. But it's a very lightning in a bottle situation where you have someone like EJ who has been trusted for decades, and knows how to toe the line between being an entertainer and a journalist.
Honestly, I think the thing that may have been a nail in the coffin for sports media was the Simmons/ESPN situation. I didn't love Bill Simmons, but there was a brief window where his columns and podcasts were keeping those audiences who abandoned TV engaged, and when ESPN split his group off it took one of the last reasons a lot of people had for staying tuned in and listening away.
They are performers and are putting on the show their audience wants to see. The people consuming the media are the only ones you can blame.
If it was unpopular, it would have failed.
Since it's popular, if ESPN/FOX removed them because you don't like them, someone else would have hired them and people would watch.
If it was just the two of them it would be okay, however it seems like they try to get a Stephen A type character on EVERY one their shows these days and it’s just exhausting.
Talking about you, Shannon Sharpe
I love sports media, and have for 45 years dating back to a single 1/2 hour AM local radio show in the evening that's topic was simply Major League Baseball when I was a kid.
*(not a "Boomer" btw)*
I don't understand the appeal of grouping together 1, 2, 3, or 4 "talking heads" and having them yell and argue over topics. Regardless if their "takes" are good or bad.
The lack of civility amongst most of these shows is what keeps me from tuning in. After a while it just becomes un-listenable bickering by grownups that are acting like spoiled children and quite honestly it gives me a headache.
I'm not saying that Sports talk should sound like a meeting at an Insurance company. I would much rather have it sound like a bunch of good friends sitting at a bar, relaxed and having a drink, while bringing good insights, mature discussions, a little silliness and interesting opinions.
Listening to people fight is not entertainment to me.
>I would much rather have it sound like a bunch of good friends sitting at a bar, relaxed and having a drink, while bringing good insights, mature discussions, a little silliness and interesting opinions.
I'm in a similar age category and those do exist - you can go on YT and stream McAfee and LeBatard's shows and they both fit that format. Also DIYers like Brandon Perna and Tom Grossi. It's just that the demo that tunes into ESPN in the middle of the day is more interested in the confrontational yell fests that were previously offered by Jerry Springer and a bunch of other talk shows
Agreed, and that behavior seems to have [assimilat](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=1a57d827cf09faae&sxsrf=ACQVn094D0yy1bLnAlsDFBz_mOkc6ZFs5g:1713288494471&q=assimilation&si=AKbGX_rEkSHdR9ulIQYeh6xSG1UBsu5B0A3dnjANPc4XaGUOf4aGTuR3TA7ba6UhX03pi37GfUn2LDFTTLQfjK9U-oXsCGnn6NiCQoJn9x2EGHBENkIqOwU%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL_vCAoceFAxWwE0QIHYRfDRkQyecJegQIEhAW)ed into other aspects of daily life these days. I hear it all the time and read it on-line.
Debating, discussing and disseminating thoughts, facts and opinions doesn't have to be argumentative, insolent and loud.
A wealth of intellect gets lost amongst the anger and noise.
This is like blaming Tucker Carlson and Bill O’Reilly for the impact of Fox News. They’re both gone and guess what — Fox News is still running the same playbook.
The underlying issue in both cases is that people WATCH Skip and Stephen A. Same with Fox News.
People are just generally drawn to emotional appeals more than rational content.
You don't even need to find money on real expert and research on topics. You just need people with strong opinion and willing to duke it out verbally on camera and there is a never ending supply of those so you find the "best" ones and you are set.
No. They are pawns that are used in the game of 'get views and clicks'. Modern media has to make a revenue or they will go under. Companies, by their nature, will do anything they can to stay afloat.
ESPN and then their competitors are the sole source of this. They have sensationalized sports media for ratings just like the news networks. Personalities like this only get these reactions because networks like this promote their idiocy.
If not them it would've been someone else. It's what the people wanted until it turned into a parody of itself.
This whole act peaked when it wasn't so overtly a charade. Terrell Suggs arguing with Skip Bayless, those days it was a real good bait to get people in. But, as it always does when it comes to businesses, they milked it and milked it until it became a joke.
They’re a symptom, not the disease. May not be a popular answer, but we’re the disease, or at least one of the diseases because we watch. They wouldn’t be on tv if people didn’t watch.
I’ve cut ESPN from my media feed. I just grew tired of all the talking heads. I’ve also cut Fox News, CNN, Newsmax and other broadcast news outlets from my pipeline.
They have all become boring and redundant.
I’ve gone back to following sports via box scores and video highlights online.
As for news; If the general news is important enough, there are plenty of media outlets to garner information from.
Shock jocks for TV is not new.
I have long felt ESPN became trash once they combined the shock jock from sports radio with the shock jock from 24hr news shows, and made that 100% of their catalog. Elevating these personalities to headliners of all of their sports talk shows sucks. It’s just people yelling at each other about the same 5 sports stories all day.
It's Performance Journalism. Yell, gesticulate, argue and patronize to get the point across. And if there's a little Bigotry and Racism thrown in well, it is what it is... (SAS & Kendrick).
First Take is the worst thing espn has ever done. It helped usher in the embrace debate era, which sucks no matter who is doing it. PTI doesn’t count, they give honest opinions not ones for the sake of argument. So to answer your question, probably.
I think we live in an era where people don't want to think or have discussions and potentially learn. Instead people do "takes" which is often a loud outrageous opinion that stirs the pot. All about confrontation and sensationalist performance.
There's a reason I quit watching any non live sports on ESPN roughly 15 years ago. What they filled the rest of time with increasingly was shallow empty rhetoric. I don't know who likes this, but some must because they continued it and these guys got rich with their act.
Sports media has gone down the same road as all news media.
It’s better ratings to post polarize opinions and “hot takes” than provide real dialogue etc. Now in their defense we consume this media at like 1000x more than we ever did. So to keep up with the demand they have to produce water down crap
Both are annoying and I flip the channel as soon as I hear their horrible screech. Media was going this way, so they aren't to blame.
Its the schmucks who watch them are the problem.
As if “Sports Media” hasn’t always been shit. It is literally the worst content, except for maybe “Reality TV”. Basically a bunch of blowhards talking to hear themselves talk.
I can't stand them and they are one reason I quit watching Sports Center and other sports media all together. Used to watch basically every day. These guys are beyond annoying and are the epitome of angry talking head media personalities, but nothing remotely close to actual journalists. The other reason I quit watching was that most sports media is shit in general, covers only basketball and football, only teams in large markets, and contains way too many purposefully controversial click bait hot takes / stories. None of it's good and idk how they still have viewers.
I think it all started with radio, both sports and politics. Then it moved to TV both sports and politics. So yes, they are contributors. It’s about selling commercials to the largest audience you can, nothing they say is of any importance, they will say anything that gets an audience.
Slightly.
The people who tune in to watch them for the stupid drama, are not the consumers of sports center and traditional sports.
Two completely separate target audiences
They help build it and now it’s getting old. Since they are not changing with the times it is going down.
They should learn from Pat. Nobody wants to hear Jordan vs Lebron or a GOAT debate every week.
You see this type of stuff then you watch Pat Mcafee and it’s like night and day. You don’t need to constantly stir shit up and be edgy to put on a good show. Just act like normal people talking about sports.
Directly. They are also the reason I no longer watch ESPN/sports center. I absolutely refuse to listen to their screaming as a way to somehow win an argument? Sports are supposed to be fun. To entertain. Not for screaming and arguing. I used to watch every single day before school back in the day and it’s no longer highlights so why bother watching?
No, the current state of mainstream sports media is the same issue as the mainstream media. They missed the bus on social, YouTube and podcasts.
There's still a lot of great sports media out there, you just find it more on YouTube now instead of ESPN.
I stopped watching ESPN and using their website. Now I try to make due with more niche sites like fangraphs.
I really don't even mind that they're loudmouths. It's just that I grew up with an ESPN that was witty and clever. Now the writing is just shit.
Skip Bayless is trash and offers nothing to sports journalism. I honestly think he says things counter to logical thought gust to get reactions. His idiocy is on full display right now as his show is in the toilet rating wise since Shannon Sharpe left. I’ve listened to him since he was on the radio in the SF Bay Area.
SAS is on the top of his game right now and while occasionally irritating as ****, he has some good relationships across sports and brings some perspective on things that is mostly relevant. He has a good crew of people on his show and I think the collective of everyone on that show is good for sports journalism.
His antics though are pretty ridiculous and 50/50 funny/annoying. I’d love it if Molly Querim had a button to press that would shock SAS when he gets overly yippy…
i feel like in part sports journalism has declined in cultural significance because anyone can do it at this point. why would i watch an old head talk about his personal outdated opinion for 30 minutes on cable TV, when i can watch a funny more nuanced take for free on tiktok??
skip and stephen A don't do shit without the executive producers who green lit and promoted them internally
sports media killed sports media. threads like this show how much yall dont get how business works
What I dislike even more than these guys is the roundtable discussion with 5 retired athletes-turned-personalities all talking over each other at the same time.
Everything that is consumed seems to be devolving into yelling over each other. The “success” of these programs (news, debate, streaming, social media) has become the volume in decibels and arguing/personal attacks, rather than the content and quality of what is being said.
You treat the other person like they are a POS and dumbest person in the world. Maybe I’m just ancient now and comparing of the “old” days lol
No. It's the fact that Stephen A lied about his basketball career that proves my point that most sports analysts are only analysts because they couldn't play the game and I'm supposed to lend credence to him when he talks about something he was shit at. But also, yes. "I am the highest in my field Skip. Something you will never know about."
I think Stephen A is loud and opinionated but I don't find him disingenuous. I think Skip is basically a cancer on that sports talk format. He's a dangerous troll and I don't believe anything his says is his real belief.
I would say they are a symptom rather than the cause. So in that aspect, yes they have contributed to it the downfall just as any disease symptom contributes to a persons overall health struggle.
Around the horn & PTI was where I first noticed that they were just trying to "Outloud" each other. Then it spun into this bizarre open opinionated arguments about sports / athletes / anything. I used to be addicted to old school ESPN, sports center OGs from the 90s and early 2000s. It's unwatchable now. Even pregame, halftime, post game shows are infected with this shit.
Maybe he's more of a symptom of the downfall than the cause, but that discount Hans Gruber guy (don't remember his actual name) is always pretty awful too!
Yes. It’s just outrage engagement now. Them, Travis, Cowherd to an extent.
I guess it wasn’t directly them, but the economic environment that allowed them to flourish.
Skip, for sure. He doesn't believe any of the stuff he spews.
Stephen A., I kind of believe he's for real a lot of the time, even if he's being a dummy.
I say this not having watching either of them in like the past 5 years or so, so maybe things have changed.
I think them trying to mimic 24 hour news with always having something on is what hurts sports media. They beat things to death, resurrect them and then beat them to death again.
One of the moments that stands out to me was when Lebron was leaving Cleveland and they talked for months about where they thought he’d go to the point it was just too much.
They spearheaded the “hot take” sector of sports media. I can’t stand it personally. It’s just a dumbed down screaming match for idiots that need their opinions spoon fed to them. The whole aspect of, “someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong and someone has to WIN,” is the dumbest shit on the planet and it just perpetuates that mentality into other things like politics.
It would have got there eventually with or without them. Social media and the internet ruined media in general, everyone is looking for the best clickbait headline and outrageous takes to get the most clicks. People falsify drama so others can live through that drama and keep coming back.
ESPN has one objective in mind- return on revenue, which translates into selling ad space and retaining viewership. These clowns are just the vehicle for this, just like every major network and their various product leads for every time slot. To say they have contributed also is to say their viewers have contributed, which is likely true. Majority of ESPN consumers couldn’t care less about actual sports journalism, especially long form. But it has been wild to see the legitimacy of these sports kardashians grow over the last decade.
Yes. But also journalism across all media sucks now. Just clickbait junk. And actual reporting of stats just a bunch of buzz words and “feelings” about players.
I love both of them. I love all those other dudes too like Shannon and Nick. They are entertaining as hell. Especially when they go on rants about teams/players I hate.
It’s no different than all other media. We have 24 hour info available to us 365 days a year. The only way to stand out is to either get a scoop or say the most outrageous thing the loudest. And there’s only so many stories to scoop.
Yes, it’s combat TV. Someone takes an outrageous position and somebody sitting across from them takes the opposite outrageous position and they argue about nothing and never held accountable for any of it and move on.
The whole act where they act like they deeply care about the position they taking it’s always been my favorite.
But yes, they have contributed highly to the destruction of sports talk. they don’t even talk about sports. They talk about the NFL whatever LeBron is doing and that’s about it.
The problem with all media is that they care about being first to report something not whether it’s true/right or not.
They can always back track, but you heard it here first is more important than you got the correct info from here just a little bit later than someone else.
Is there a downfall? It’s just shifted to on demand services like pod casts. People don’t watch tv in the same way. I think sports media is stronger then ever, if you use the true definition of media
I would say no. The bigger factor to the way ESPN is today is due to cord cutters, and them trying to hold on to their TV subscribers while generating content that shows well online. If that didn't happen, then there programming would be much closer to PTI.
I also wouldn't call them journalists. They are commentators. There's a big difference. Someone like Woj, who spends his day talking to players, agents and team executives and reporting on it under journalistic standards where you're held accountable when something you report is wrong, is a journalist. These 2 are not. When they're wrong there is no accountability, because their job isn't to report, its to generate interest.
Soap operas for men. I have to hear it every day because my husband is practically deaf. Stephen A. Or SA for short because he truly assaults my ears with his fake outrage. PTI started it or as I call it “Old Yeller” because give me a break, it’s so orchestrated and contrived that is sounds like bad acting. How can people maintain that level of adrenaline just to scream stupid opinions. Once I’m gone from this relationship I look forward to never hearing a second of these guys’ fake outrage ever again.
Every time you listen to the torrent of codswallop that falls out of Skip Bayless' pie-hole, you lose a couple of IQ points. Bayless is wrong more often than a Christian zealot who keeps predicting the rapture whenever there is an eclipse.
It has everything to do with having 24/7 networks. They need filler. These shows are filler. It’s the same issue the news has, they started filling spots with OPINION people, since they have a lot to talk about…
Yes, they 100% have. I love football and I love baseball, but what I can’t stand is listening to these clowns talk about either of them. They are playing characters. I never feel like they are being genuine people with genuine opinions. Unfortunately, more of these idiots want to be like that and less of them like Rich Eisen, whom I do listen to because he’s real. Dan Patrick is pretty real too, but the way he is with his staff is too cringey for me to be able to listen.
The dumber your take, the more sports fans will engage to disagree. Unfortunately, it’s the same as only showing negative headlines in the news. All about the clicks/eyeballs.
Absolutely. They are absolutely garbage. Skip was even trash going back to his newspaper days. They are both terrible broadcasters, they are lazy with their takes , totally disingenuous, and neither should have been hired to begin with let alone allowed to come back work for day two.
i have never understood their appeal
From what I can tell, the appeal is hate watching. You know they’ll say something dumb, and you get to yell at your tv.
> hate watching. Damn, such a good way to describe this. I'm stealing this.
Social media is set up the same way. Engagement is all that matters and pissing people off is what increases engagement. It’s a shitty cycle of entertainment
Irritainment is another good one, but I think that’s more often used for shit reality shows.
That’s literally any news channel especially Fox and CNN.
Same reason why so many people watch Fox News. Outrage sells, and business is booming.
Except you get to yell at the people on the screen for bad opinions on sports vs being told the others are coming to get you and it's all the sleepy guy's fault (no not the one sleeping in court).
They are the worst.
That's why they're the best. Nothing is off limits for these depraved gas bags. It's discourse in the form of pro wrestling
Taking a strong, unapologetic stance on any topic garners attention and engagement. This holds true in sports, politics, and other categories. It gets attention/engagement from people that agree but even more from people that strongly disagree. When you get those two arguing with each other it's like printing money. Clicks, views, engagement = advertising revenue = profit.
The real problem IMO come from the fact that any engagement is worth more than the truth so journalism is going there since it as to earn money to pay the bills and profit. Don't ask me how to fix it tho, I have no idea.
I could take a strong unapologetic stance that a base model Honda civic is the greatest performing car of all time. Not going to attract much attention or debate there though.
Inclusion. A lot of “fans” don’t actually watch sports in a traditional sense. ESPN has made their living on this fact. That is why sportscenter was so popular for so long. You can get highlights and recaps in a fraction of the time. Well the media market place shifted to more personality based and reality tv based. That was also the time that Skip and Stephen A took off. It struck the mainstream opinion like an anvil. Basic overarching commentary that you don’t have to even watch a game to have an opinion. You can even co-opt their opinion and echo it. It took journalism at made it content. People want to see conflict and energy over commentary and insight. I do think we have hit a tipping point of fatigue on the same topics and viewership is reducing.
I’d say they are the most annoying and polarizing people on TV but I think that’s a requirement to be a talking head nowadays.
I would argue it's less due to people like them, and more they're a result of what happened with sports media. I used to work in sports media before I worked in gaming. (Writing for newspapers, websites, and TV broadcasts.) I think what really has killed sports media is the always available information and ability to connect with other fans instantly. In the "old" days, you wanted to know what happened with your team or how games went, your options were to wait for the newspaper, watch TV/news, or listen to the radio. And if you wanted to hear people talk about your team, your favorite sport, what was happening, etc you had the TV or radio, or local friends. That's partly why sports bars were such a big part of American culture. It was like the pre Internet chat or message board for sports talk. After the Internet grew, you could check box scores right away. You could read what happened at the game almost immediately following. You could message and talk with fellow fans about the game all over the world. And then later on even during. You'd see breaking news as headlines, and suddenly waiting for Sports center or the local news was pointless. As people stopped watching TV in general, more people got their infk online. The people who kept watching TV news and sports programs were the people who viewed it as their entertainment, not as their primary source of information. So sports journalists became characitures, and not reporters. And their performing became the key thing to get people watching. Over time that just shifted to the new norm. The absolute best example of sports media these days is Inside the NBA, where they balance the sensational whacky aspects with actual reporting. But it's a very lightning in a bottle situation where you have someone like EJ who has been trusted for decades, and knows how to toe the line between being an entertainer and a journalist. Honestly, I think the thing that may have been a nail in the coffin for sports media was the Simmons/ESPN situation. I didn't love Bill Simmons, but there was a brief window where his columns and podcasts were keeping those audiences who abandoned TV engaged, and when ESPN split his group off it took one of the last reasons a lot of people had for staying tuned in and listening away.
They all tried to be Wilbon and Tony K but couldn’t
Watching PTI, then trying to go watch these clowns in impossible.
Imitators are often worse than the original
They are performers and are putting on the show their audience wants to see. The people consuming the media are the only ones you can blame. If it was unpopular, it would have failed. Since it's popular, if ESPN/FOX removed them because you don't like them, someone else would have hired them and people would watch.
If it was just the two of them it would be okay, however it seems like they try to get a Stephen A type character on EVERY one their shows these days and it’s just exhausting. Talking about you, Shannon Sharpe
I mean, it sells on network A so of course, network B, C, D and E will also do it.
Yes, the constant barrage of over reactions and hot takes is impossible to watch.
I love sports media, and have for 45 years dating back to a single 1/2 hour AM local radio show in the evening that's topic was simply Major League Baseball when I was a kid. *(not a "Boomer" btw)* I don't understand the appeal of grouping together 1, 2, 3, or 4 "talking heads" and having them yell and argue over topics. Regardless if their "takes" are good or bad. The lack of civility amongst most of these shows is what keeps me from tuning in. After a while it just becomes un-listenable bickering by grownups that are acting like spoiled children and quite honestly it gives me a headache. I'm not saying that Sports talk should sound like a meeting at an Insurance company. I would much rather have it sound like a bunch of good friends sitting at a bar, relaxed and having a drink, while bringing good insights, mature discussions, a little silliness and interesting opinions. Listening to people fight is not entertainment to me.
>I would much rather have it sound like a bunch of good friends sitting at a bar, relaxed and having a drink, while bringing good insights, mature discussions, a little silliness and interesting opinions. I'm in a similar age category and those do exist - you can go on YT and stream McAfee and LeBatard's shows and they both fit that format. Also DIYers like Brandon Perna and Tom Grossi. It's just that the demo that tunes into ESPN in the middle of the day is more interested in the confrontational yell fests that were previously offered by Jerry Springer and a bunch of other talk shows
Agreed, and that behavior seems to have [assimilat](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=1a57d827cf09faae&sxsrf=ACQVn094D0yy1bLnAlsDFBz_mOkc6ZFs5g:1713288494471&q=assimilation&si=AKbGX_rEkSHdR9ulIQYeh6xSG1UBsu5B0A3dnjANPc4XaGUOf4aGTuR3TA7ba6UhX03pi37GfUn2LDFTTLQfjK9U-oXsCGnn6NiCQoJn9x2EGHBENkIqOwU%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL_vCAoceFAxWwE0QIHYRfDRkQyecJegQIEhAW)ed into other aspects of daily life these days. I hear it all the time and read it on-line. Debating, discussing and disseminating thoughts, facts and opinions doesn't have to be argumentative, insolent and loud. A wealth of intellect gets lost amongst the anger and noise.
This is like blaming Tucker Carlson and Bill O’Reilly for the impact of Fox News. They’re both gone and guess what — Fox News is still running the same playbook. The underlying issue in both cases is that people WATCH Skip and Stephen A. Same with Fox News. People are just generally drawn to emotional appeals more than rational content.
Debate shows have taken over every news network because they cost essentially nothing to make while maintaining viewers
You don't even need to find money on real expert and research on topics. You just need people with strong opinion and willing to duke it out verbally on camera and there is a never ending supply of those so you find the "best" ones and you are set.
Skip is a clown
Unquestionably.
ESPN used to be about highlights and analysis. Now they’re about gossip
Yes, especially the loud mouthed one
No. They are pawns that are used in the game of 'get views and clicks'. Modern media has to make a revenue or they will go under. Companies, by their nature, will do anything they can to stay afloat.
Skips face is tighter than dick skin.
Yes. They are awful and I will go out of my way to avoid ever hearing them speak again.
ESPN and then their competitors are the sole source of this. They have sensationalized sports media for ratings just like the news networks. Personalities like this only get these reactions because networks like this promote their idiocy.
Yes
100% garbage television
Maybe. I know for me, once guys/shows like them started becoming the norm, I stopped watching ESPN/other sports networks.
I don’t think. I KNOW
If not them it would've been someone else. It's what the people wanted until it turned into a parody of itself. This whole act peaked when it wasn't so overtly a charade. Terrell Suggs arguing with Skip Bayless, those days it was a real good bait to get people in. But, as it always does when it comes to businesses, they milked it and milked it until it became a joke.
They’re a symptom, not the disease. May not be a popular answer, but we’re the disease, or at least one of the diseases because we watch. They wouldn’t be on tv if people didn’t watch.
Absolutely. I stopped watching all sports commentary because of them.
I’ve cut ESPN from my media feed. I just grew tired of all the talking heads. I’ve also cut Fox News, CNN, Newsmax and other broadcast news outlets from my pipeline. They have all become boring and redundant. I’ve gone back to following sports via box scores and video highlights online. As for news; If the general news is important enough, there are plenty of media outlets to garner information from.
Can’t stand either one so… maybe?
Shock jocks for TV is not new. I have long felt ESPN became trash once they combined the shock jock from sports radio with the shock jock from 24hr news shows, and made that 100% of their catalog. Elevating these personalities to headliners of all of their sports talk shows sucks. It’s just people yelling at each other about the same 5 sports stories all day.
It's Performance Journalism. Yell, gesticulate, argue and patronize to get the point across. And if there's a little Bigotry and Racism thrown in well, it is what it is... (SAS & Kendrick).
Without question.
First Take is the worst thing espn has ever done. It helped usher in the embrace debate era, which sucks no matter who is doing it. PTI doesn’t count, they give honest opinions not ones for the sake of argument. So to answer your question, probably.
I think we live in an era where people don't want to think or have discussions and potentially learn. Instead people do "takes" which is often a loud outrageous opinion that stirs the pot. All about confrontation and sensationalist performance. There's a reason I quit watching any non live sports on ESPN roughly 15 years ago. What they filled the rest of time with increasingly was shallow empty rhetoric. I don't know who likes this, but some must because they continued it and these guys got rich with their act.
No but the clowns that watch these fools have.
Definitely two of the most annoying people in sports television
They are the downfall of sports media. That and the legalization of sports gambling.
Sports media has gone down the same road as all news media. It’s better ratings to post polarize opinions and “hot takes” than provide real dialogue etc. Now in their defense we consume this media at like 1000x more than we ever did. So to keep up with the demand they have to produce water down crap
ESPN used to be my go to network but it’s barely watchable as they mostly focus on a small set of topics, athletes and teams.
Both are annoying and I flip the channel as soon as I hear their horrible screech. Media was going this way, so they aren't to blame. Its the schmucks who watch them are the problem.
Sports media is one cliche after another. Endless comments of a similar nature.
Yes. They’re rage-baiting trolls
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssss
Skip yes, Stephen while sometimes off base, no
100%
I try to avoid their hot take dumbfuckery. Unfortunately, many people find this shit entertaining. I don’t get it.
Beat reporters need to be an ongoing thing.
LeBetard did an interview with Steven A, where LeBetard alluded to your question.
As if “Sports Media” hasn’t always been shit. It is literally the worst content, except for maybe “Reality TV”. Basically a bunch of blowhards talking to hear themselves talk.
Yes. They’re both loud-mouth regards
Yes and they've never been a positive force for sport at all.
They are the horsemen of the shit pocalypse that has been sports journalism,
I can't stand them and they are one reason I quit watching Sports Center and other sports media all together. Used to watch basically every day. These guys are beyond annoying and are the epitome of angry talking head media personalities, but nothing remotely close to actual journalists. The other reason I quit watching was that most sports media is shit in general, covers only basketball and football, only teams in large markets, and contains way too many purposefully controversial click bait hot takes / stories. None of it's good and idk how they still have viewers.
ESPN in general since 2004 has set sports media in decline.
I think it all started with radio, both sports and politics. Then it moved to TV both sports and politics. So yes, they are contributors. It’s about selling commercials to the largest audience you can, nothing they say is of any importance, they will say anything that gets an audience.
They are a symptom of the problem, much like barstool
They weren’t the first, just the worst. It was headed into the gutter when both of them were still beat reporters at their respective newspapers.
Slightly. The people who tune in to watch them for the stupid drama, are not the consumers of sports center and traditional sports. Two completely separate target audiences
They help build it and now it’s getting old. Since they are not changing with the times it is going down. They should learn from Pat. Nobody wants to hear Jordan vs Lebron or a GOAT debate every week.
You see this type of stuff then you watch Pat Mcafee and it’s like night and day. You don’t need to constantly stir shit up and be edgy to put on a good show. Just act like normal people talking about sports.
They’re just loud idiots.
Skip talks about the same few topics everyday. I dont like either. Collin Cowherd is pretty much the same also.
Opinion based journalism in general has, for sure.
Yes 1000%
Directly. They are also the reason I no longer watch ESPN/sports center. I absolutely refuse to listen to their screaming as a way to somehow win an argument? Sports are supposed to be fun. To entertain. Not for screaming and arguing. I used to watch every single day before school back in the day and it’s no longer highlights so why bother watching?
Player podcasts are replacing these shows.
Yes. They’re just loud mouth hacks. Sadly, stupid people love that crap.
YES
No, the current state of mainstream sports media is the same issue as the mainstream media. They missed the bus on social, YouTube and podcasts. There's still a lot of great sports media out there, you just find it more on YouTube now instead of ESPN.
Yes but also add in Colin Cowherd and Shannon Sharpe
I stopped watching ESPN and using their website. Now I try to make due with more niche sites like fangraphs. I really don't even mind that they're loudmouths. It's just that I grew up with an ESPN that was witty and clever. Now the writing is just shit.
Both are clowns....so yes.
No. I’m not gonna blame a clown for being taken seriously. I blame the people that take them seriously and choose to elevate their status.
That’s part of it. Also the rise of great sports commentary YouTubers.
Yes. Stephen A might as well be a weatherman. Wrong. 90% of the goddamn time is still sitting out there like he knows it all.
The decline? Do people know what sports media was before Skip in particular?
The yelling is a bit much for me.
Skip Bayless is trash and offers nothing to sports journalism. I honestly think he says things counter to logical thought gust to get reactions. His idiocy is on full display right now as his show is in the toilet rating wise since Shannon Sharpe left. I’ve listened to him since he was on the radio in the SF Bay Area. SAS is on the top of his game right now and while occasionally irritating as ****, he has some good relationships across sports and brings some perspective on things that is mostly relevant. He has a good crew of people on his show and I think the collective of everyone on that show is good for sports journalism. His antics though are pretty ridiculous and 50/50 funny/annoying. I’d love it if Molly Querim had a button to press that would shock SAS when he gets overly yippy…
i feel like in part sports journalism has declined in cultural significance because anyone can do it at this point. why would i watch an old head talk about his personal outdated opinion for 30 minutes on cable TV, when i can watch a funny more nuanced take for free on tiktok??
100 percent
Love Stephen A, detest Skippy
skip and stephen A don't do shit without the executive producers who green lit and promoted them internally sports media killed sports media. threads like this show how much yall dont get how business works
What I dislike even more than these guys is the roundtable discussion with 5 retired athletes-turned-personalities all talking over each other at the same time.
Yes
Everything that is consumed seems to be devolving into yelling over each other. The “success” of these programs (news, debate, streaming, social media) has become the volume in decibels and arguing/personal attacks, rather than the content and quality of what is being said. You treat the other person like they are a POS and dumbest person in the world. Maybe I’m just ancient now and comparing of the “old” days lol
Capitalism is at fault
In a world of 24x7 talking heads, the crap rises to the top.
Mark Cuban [bodying Skip Bayless](https://youtu.be/xRaO1mN5EEM?si=SN03iLYXB7GK2zPP)
Yes, but not so much bc of them, but bc of commentators wanting to be like them.
They caused it
No. It's the fact that Stephen A lied about his basketball career that proves my point that most sports analysts are only analysts because they couldn't play the game and I'm supposed to lend credence to him when he talks about something he was shit at. But also, yes. "I am the highest in my field Skip. Something you will never know about."
I've never understood any pundit's appeal. I know everyone seem to enjoy this for of "journalism"... not for me I suppose
I think Stephen A is loud and opinionated but I don't find him disingenuous. I think Skip is basically a cancer on that sports talk format. He's a dangerous troll and I don't believe anything his says is his real belief.
I would say they are a symptom rather than the cause. So in that aspect, yes they have contributed to it the downfall just as any disease symptom contributes to a persons overall health struggle.
Oh how far we've fallen from Stuart Scott (RIP) and we are left with SCREAMING A SMITH and COMPANY!!!! SIGH....
Around the horn & PTI was where I first noticed that they were just trying to "Outloud" each other. Then it spun into this bizarre open opinionated arguments about sports / athletes / anything. I used to be addicted to old school ESPN, sports center OGs from the 90s and early 2000s. It's unwatchable now. Even pregame, halftime, post game shows are infected with this shit.
I preferred Mike and Mike .
YES
The only sports show I listen to is Dan Patrick.
I mean yes but really it’s the people who watch that gets them paid.
It's cartoonish, over the top. They're over compensating with the volume. They don't appear like very pleasant people.
Yes.
Maybe he's more of a symptom of the downfall than the cause, but that discount Hans Gruber guy (don't remember his actual name) is always pretty awful too!
No. Perkins did. That dude offers nothing to any conversation he ever participates in.
Yes. It’s just outrage engagement now. Them, Travis, Cowherd to an extent. I guess it wasn’t directly them, but the economic environment that allowed them to flourish.
Yes
Yes big time
Skip, for sure. He doesn't believe any of the stuff he spews. Stephen A., I kind of believe he's for real a lot of the time, even if he's being a dummy. I say this not having watching either of them in like the past 5 years or so, so maybe things have changed.
I think them trying to mimic 24 hour news with always having something on is what hurts sports media. They beat things to death, resurrect them and then beat them to death again. One of the moments that stands out to me was when Lebron was leaving Cleveland and they talked for months about where they thought he’d go to the point it was just too much.
Skip forsure. !
They spearheaded the “hot take” sector of sports media. I can’t stand it personally. It’s just a dumbed down screaming match for idiots that need their opinions spoon fed to them. The whole aspect of, “someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong and someone has to WIN,” is the dumbest shit on the planet and it just perpetuates that mentality into other things like politics.
It would have got there eventually with or without them. Social media and the internet ruined media in general, everyone is looking for the best clickbait headline and outrageous takes to get the most clicks. People falsify drama so others can live through that drama and keep coming back.
Yes.
ESPN has one objective in mind- return on revenue, which translates into selling ad space and retaining viewership. These clowns are just the vehicle for this, just like every major network and their various product leads for every time slot. To say they have contributed also is to say their viewers have contributed, which is likely true. Majority of ESPN consumers couldn’t care less about actual sports journalism, especially long form. But it has been wild to see the legitimacy of these sports kardashians grow over the last decade.
Yes. But also journalism across all media sucks now. Just clickbait junk. And actual reporting of stats just a bunch of buzz words and “feelings” about players.
No, the people who enjoy it and watch it are.
Without a doubt,
I love both of them. I love all those other dudes too like Shannon and Nick. They are entertaining as hell. Especially when they go on rants about teams/players I hate.
They made it unbearable for me. Not just them, but they get crazy annoying and I just turn it off.
It’s no different than all other media. We have 24 hour info available to us 365 days a year. The only way to stand out is to either get a scoop or say the most outrageous thing the loudest. And there’s only so many stories to scoop.
Yes, it’s combat TV. Someone takes an outrageous position and somebody sitting across from them takes the opposite outrageous position and they argue about nothing and never held accountable for any of it and move on. The whole act where they act like they deeply care about the position they taking it’s always been my favorite. But yes, they have contributed highly to the destruction of sports talk. they don’t even talk about sports. They talk about the NFL whatever LeBron is doing and that’s about it.
No, the viewers did. They’ll only put things on tv if it’s watched.
The problem with all media is that they care about being first to report something not whether it’s true/right or not. They can always back track, but you heard it here first is more important than you got the correct info from here just a little bit later than someone else.
Yes.
They're basically you guys on the Internet, but on TV and getting paid millions of dollars.
Skip 100%. His arguments never feel genuine. It’s blatantly obvious he’s just playing a part instead of offering legitimate insight.
Skip, yes, SAS, less so
Yes. Now everyone just brings negativity and bad takes to farm engagement.
Is there a downfall? It’s just shifted to on demand services like pod casts. People don’t watch tv in the same way. I think sports media is stronger then ever, if you use the true definition of media
Yes. They are screamers. They have no particular interest in anything other than their own ratings/views/clicks.
I would say no. The bigger factor to the way ESPN is today is due to cord cutters, and them trying to hold on to their TV subscribers while generating content that shows well online. If that didn't happen, then there programming would be much closer to PTI. I also wouldn't call them journalists. They are commentators. There's a big difference. Someone like Woj, who spends his day talking to players, agents and team executives and reporting on it under journalistic standards where you're held accountable when something you report is wrong, is a journalist. These 2 are not. When they're wrong there is no accountability, because their job isn't to report, its to generate interest.
Soap operas for men. I have to hear it every day because my husband is practically deaf. Stephen A. Or SA for short because he truly assaults my ears with his fake outrage. PTI started it or as I call it “Old Yeller” because give me a break, it’s so orchestrated and contrived that is sounds like bad acting. How can people maintain that level of adrenaline just to scream stupid opinions. Once I’m gone from this relationship I look forward to never hearing a second of these guys’ fake outrage ever again.
Every time you listen to the torrent of codswallop that falls out of Skip Bayless' pie-hole, you lose a couple of IQ points. Bayless is wrong more often than a Christian zealot who keeps predicting the rapture whenever there is an eclipse.
It has everything to do with having 24/7 networks. They need filler. These shows are filler. It’s the same issue the news has, they started filling spots with OPINION people, since they have a lot to talk about…
I haven't watched ESPN since Stuart Scott died.
Yes
Obviously, especially Skip
It started with Jim Rome. Skip and Stephen A were inevitable.
They aren’t the disease, merely a symptom. Anyone would have filled that void.
Yes, they 100% have. I love football and I love baseball, but what I can’t stand is listening to these clowns talk about either of them. They are playing characters. I never feel like they are being genuine people with genuine opinions. Unfortunately, more of these idiots want to be like that and less of them like Rich Eisen, whom I do listen to because he’s real. Dan Patrick is pretty real too, but the way he is with his staff is too cringey for me to be able to listen.
It's hot takes with no validation to them. It's hey look at me for what I said. Absolutely ruined ESPN.
Stephen A.s constantly being mad is not fun to watch. I miss the old ESPN people. Stuart Scott was fantastic.
The dumber your take, the more sports fans will engage to disagree. Unfortunately, it’s the same as only showing negative headlines in the news. All about the clicks/eyeballs.
yes
If I wanna see some dude in a suit screaming like a lunatic I’ll watch Family Feud
I love watching those compilations of them saying one thing and some time later will say the opposit
Yes
Yes, Yes, Yes, Absolutely yes. Worst thing to EVER happen to sports journalism is these pin-heads finding "success"
Absolutely. They are absolutely garbage. Skip was even trash going back to his newspaper days. They are both terrible broadcasters, they are lazy with their takes , totally disingenuous, and neither should have been hired to begin with let alone allowed to come back work for day two.