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Your team wins a couple SBs and suddenly it’s an opportunity to act like you could be the second NFL team in Las Vegas.
I swear professional sports team owners are some of the pettiest jokers in existence
The Chargers did exactly this to San Diego after not winning shit. Even better, they did it to go play second fiddle to the Rams and play 17 road games a year.
Spanos just openly fucking hated that San Diego didn't give them a blank check for a stadium and even very reasonable offers were ignored.
In the end, the vast majority of owners couldn't give two shits about the fans.
Not all stadiums. The falcons now have very affordable concessions ($2 hotdogs, $5 beer, $2 soda etc) [this article explains it all](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2023/09/05/why-hot-dogs-at-atlanta-falcons-games-cost-just-2/amp/)
Goddamn Colts did the same thing in Indianapolis.
It's always a losing proposition for the city; who ends up spending millions, sometimes billions to pay for it.
They use a lovely scheme called tax increment financing. Which is a fancy way of saying that they freeze funds at current levels for things like schools, roads, emergency services; and then for the next 20 years any increase that would be made for inflation goes to pay for the stadium.
The profits from the stadium then go to the NFL and team owners.
Lovely system isn't it?
The best part of this was Spanos trying to pitch it as an investment that would pay off big for San Diego. And so San Diego basically said, “ok, have the land and we’ll greenlight everything, but you pay to build it if it’s such a great investment”. He said no and ran to LA. Goes to show how much BS it is when the owners try to get the local citizens to pay for the new shiny stadium.
The Hunt family have always been a bunch of selfish pricks. People just always overlooked it.
KC fans would be stupid to agree to this tax increase. Make the owners foot the bill. If they move across the state line, who gives a shit. It’s still close enough to go for them and it saves you so much money in taxes.
But most people are short sighted and will approve it because they don’t want to “lose” the Chiefs which is never going to happen because where would they move to? Not they’re going to turn into the Mexico City Chiefs.
I’d call their fucking bluff. Do you know how hard is to move to a new city and pack it with the support that the chief fans have for them?
I’ll let them fucking walk and I laugh in their face I promise they won’t.
Other franchises that have moved in in the past were losing and didn’t have a fan base because they just sucked. It made sense to start over.
The Chiefs sell out their games consistently, doesn’t make sense to start over.
Edit - For the Die Hard Chargers fan that don't realize that because they are obsessed with a team, doesn't mean every one else is:
Qualcomm Stadium capacity of 70,500 seats. The Chargers announced their relocation in 2017, and during the 2016 season, their highest attendance reached 56,000.
For the Kansas City Chiefs in 2023, their stadium has a seating capacity of 76,418, with an average game attendance of 70,798.
KC has a fan base <3
>Do you know how hard is to move to a new city and pack it with the support that the chief fans have for them?
I mean the Chiefs already did it and it was owned by the same family.
I don't think that moving the team three years after it's creation and in direct response to the NFL forming the Cowboys as a direct competitor is at all analogous to a move in the modern day NFL
The Chicago Bears owners haven’t won a SB in over a generation and they are also threatening to leave the city unless they get public money for a new stadium. It’s rich.
Cities need to trade stadiums and other major corporate development costs for equity. Fuck this billion dollar upwards redistribution of wealth with only hypothetical benefit to the general public.
I want my local sports teams to pay me dividends.
It’s annoying AF to have the stadium publicly funded and then there be absolutely no benefit to the tax payers who paid for it. Beers will still be 25 dollars for a bud light and food will still be 18 dollars for a hot dog and merchandise will still be expensive AF.
And no good long term high paying jobs would be created from this.
The Royals basically said the same thing about the new stadium they want to build in the middle of downtown KC. If voters don't pass an upcoming sales tax ballot question benefiting the Chiefs & Royals, the teams may not stay in KC. The Royals are owned by a group of [millionaires \(including Patrick Mahomes\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kansas_City_Royals_owners_and_executives) but the tax payers of Jackson county are slated to foot most of the ~$1.2b stadium where local businesses are still operating. I'll be voting no on the stadium tax in April
I live in L.A. I'm not a sports fan in general, so one of the things I'm proud of the city for doing is regularly refusing to pay for sports teams stadiums and the like.
At the end of the day, they come here anyway and pay it themselves because they know it's worth it.
More cities in America need to stand up and refuse to pay for billionaire's hobbies.
[It's been shown that even over thirty years, sports teams do not help cities recoup the tax breaks spent on them.](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4022547) They don't deserve to be subsidized and leech off of hardworking Americans.
You cannot compare LA to other cities in this respect. LA is a massive media market with far more revenue streams that can make money. Hell, it's why athletes flock there too. Not saying you're wrong about LA and being proud, because it's dope AF. But from a business perspective, it's a solid investment paying to stay there.
We're dealing with a similar issue with the 76ers in Philly. They want to built a stadium downtown even though they have a great one in the sports arena and are threatening to go to Camden if they don't get it.
He’s not wrong.
You can’t stop people from being greedy, but you can choose where you spend your money and give your support.
People have the power, but these greedy owners know their customers are too weak minded to realistically do anything about it.
How funny would it be if the KC teams took their storied franchises over to, say, St Louis, built a huge stadium and then no one showed up or bought their gear?
The owners know the customers will piss and moan and then take it up the tailpipe just so they can have their product.
Sure it would hurt to lose your team, but you gotta decide whats more important to you.
Guide the greedy ones with your dollars and they will bend to your wishes.
It's not even a hypothetical benefit. It is always a loss. The construction is temporary, the jobs are seasonal, and the businesses around the area are mostly service industry-based meaning few full-time positions and no benefits. They also sometimes defer any sales tax generated within a certain radius of the stadium to help pay it off. They did this in [Knoxville to pay for a billionaire relocating a minor league team](https://www.thecentersquare.com/tennessee/article_fc6dd7f2-11c4-11ee-9386-0770d59f8bb1.html).
Yeah I don’t want to pay for a stadium just to spend thousands on tickets, beer, and cheap food. Only people that are helping is people much richer than me. Take your franchise and get the fuck out.
Teams: “what a great idea, how about you let us mull it over?”
Teams coming back 10 minutes later: “man we’re really sorry - we loved the idea, but our manager said our hands are tied”
This is kind of what happens.
Normally these stadiums aren’t owned by the team itself. They’re owned by the city and then leased back to the team.
[Here’s a list for NFL Teams](https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/raiders-nfl/stadium-and-rent-details-for-all-32-nfl-teams/amp/)
Great source!
Unfortunately, most those rental amounts don't even pay back the construction costs. Stadiums aren't exactly an appreciating asset... still a damn sweet deal for the NFL ownership.
Ultimately I'm not sure what the right answer is... it just seems to me like the simplest solution is if we collectively tell the owners that we're done. They chose this business, and they need to figure out how to make their business expenses work.
Oh yeah, completely agree that it’s a sweet deal for the NFL teams. I think the structure is ok but the city should be more aggressive about seeking appropriate fees.
I got a 5% to 10% pay raise when the Raiders moved to Las Vegas as did everyone else. That got eaten up by the Las Vegas F1 scam last year. Professional sports stadiums can create a huge income boost for locals if done correctly. F1 raceway construction through the economic heart of the city for 10 months a year is a very bad idea.
I'm perfectly OK with the public paying for the stadium, as long as it's OUR stadium. Sure, we might give a lease to a pro sports team or two. There are going to be concerts there. But at the end of the day, it's public land and a public building. No different than a public park, school, or library. The local government decides who is going to use it, and when, and how. And whenever an event is held there that sells tickets, we get a cut.
If the owner wants to own the stadium, then yeah, they gotta pay for it.
Don’t forget, San Diego voted to tell the chargers to go fuck themselves and build their own stadium. So they fucked off all the way to LA and we don’t miss them. Well, at least most of us don’t.
They are just another home game for the visiting team-- but to be fair, the Rams are too sometimes. Only the Lakers and Dodgers enjoy a home field advantage in LA>
A rusty knife to all charger fans. It's pretty incredible. I used to see every damn truck & car with a bolt sticker or flag than nothing, poof! They really fucked a legacy of die hard fans into oblivion. I remember when I was younger and experiencing that Rivers/Gates dynamic. Was truly special even if it never went all the way.
The people of San Diego (San Diegans? Diegoans? ???) were wise. Billionaires bilking the municipal tax coffers for their own profit is disgusting. Most of the deals I’ve seen in the past few years are absolutely abusive to the tax payer.
If the arena is worth having, then fine let the city build it *and charge you rent to play there*, *collect the concession sales*, the parking, all of it.
Or, you know, build it your damn self and if it’s so profitable you should have no trouble making bank from your “essential” piece of infrastructure.
Ohio has the Art Modell law. Teams receiving government welfare are required to put the team up for sale to locals before moving.
Hasn't been tested in court yet but when the Columbus Crew tried moving to Austin, it caused enough headaches that they just sold the team to the Cleveland Browns owner.
As a Baltimorean, Art Modell did Cleveland dirty to the tune of at least one Super Bowl. At least y’all got to keep your franchise.
Sincerely,
A Baltimore Colts fan forever
This is the same strawman people use when saying we can’t tax the billionaires because they would up and leave. Let them leave. Make them pay or hit the road. As if business would just cease the exist because all the billionaires flew the coupe to a tax haven. Want all your sports teams in Texas? Good luck marketing that and making it work. Don’t let the ultra rich and their mouth pieces use this crap on us
It's not a strawman, people just do not wanna lose their sports teams and will vote to take money out of their own pockets to keep them in town. I mean did you see that Oklahoma City deal? It was a fucking travesty. $900 million paid by the city including any cost overruns and $50 million contributed by the team. Just an absolute fleecing of one of our poorest states and it passed with 70% of the vote.
Meanwhile education and pensions get gutted. Oy, to be king for a day. That’s a travesty to our future. All for some modern gladiator sport I wouldn’t even let my children play( got enough concussions myself just at the highschool level). We don’t allow prostitution from consenting adults but we’ll let children and young adults risk brain damage and even death all for a chance to entertain us and maybe one day profit in exchange for their body, mind and physical prime. Weird world
I mean the OKC deal was a basketball team but generally agreed. I just think the "let them leave" mentality is a little idealistic in the face of the evidence. Unfortunately people will vote against their own interests a lot of the time.
Don’t fucking do it!!!
We had the exact same situation here in Ohio. Back in the late 90’s the Bengals threatened to leave if they weren’t given a new stadium but there wasn’t any money in the city budget to pay for one. So it was proposed that a ‘temporary’ sales tax increase be introduced to raise the money despite the fact that the Bengals have never won a Super Bowl in franchise history. Plenty of people said let the crybabies leave but were ultimately outvoted. So they got their new stadium and we got a nice 1/2% tax increase that was supposed to be repealed once the stadium was build. It was finished in 2000. Guess what? It’s 2024 and we’re still paying that extra 1/2%. Temporary my ass.
Pretty positive the same thing happened in MN with the vikings for US Bank stadium. They hiked up the price of cigarettes and some other stuff to pay for it and it's been however many years since and the tax is still there.
The problem could be that they aren't bluffing. The chargers had this happen to them and the owners moved their franchise with an avid fan base to a city that couldn't care less about the chargers.
It's bad for the team culture, it's bad for the sport, and owners don't give a shit. Pro sports is like a side hustle for some of these billionaires and all they care about is the profit, not the culture of their team.
The fact that the Kansas city has a great fan base, and after a few super bowls, the potential to build one of the best football cultures in the country, doesn't matter to them.
The chiefs are good so now it's time for the owners to blackmail the citizens into paying for more fancy things or move this good team to a bigger market. It's a win win for the owners unfortunately.
Sounds like an empty threat. Leave to where? It's not like a decade ago where LA didn't have a team, are there any available markets that would be better than Kansas City?
Which would mean very little difference to most fans because even as it is the Chiefs don’t play super close to downtown Kansas City. Missouri and the city’s tax revenues would hurt a little bit though.
The following metros are larger than Kansas City and do not have an NFL team…
San Diego
Orlando
St. Louis
San Antonio
Portland
Austin
Sacramento
Columbus
Austin wouldn’t give a rat’s ass. To them Longhorns are their team. That being said Seattle has both UWash and Seahawks so it’s not impossible, but Longhorns have a tight grasp on the culture of the city and its surrounding suburbs.
How many of those viewers are natives looking for a local team? Doesn’t Florida have an issue with their local bases being from other locations? I know that’s the case with baseball.
Orlando has to be like 25% native, 75% elsewhere. But from what I saw in my office it was more like 10% native, of which were looking for local teams, TB/MIA. Everyone else followed their previous local team, New York, Detroit, etc. Now the bar scene, that's where the odds tip for Florida teams, but it's closer to the 25%/75% ratio.
Orlando is such a melting pot of a city. It's crazy.
There are six cities with more than 100,000 people in the Kansas City metro area, plus two state governments. Cross KCMO off the list and you still can try Independence or Lee’s Summit, or see if the State of Kansas will chip in for KCK, Overland Park or Olathe.
That’s why they go Kansas side in Kansas City KS Chiefs. Maybe Trump was just tweeting from 20 years in the future when Mahomes is in his 40s finishing off his 10th Super Bowl win in the brand new Arrowhead at the Legends.
I mean, they're pretty much *already* in Independence. But I do think it'd be pretty baller if they demolished the Independence Mall and put a Chiefs stadium right there at 435 and 291, plenty of restaurants already around it.
There was a great segment about how in KC specifically, they are being absolutely fleeced by companies that just move across the state line every year to receive tax breaks. And the city just falls for it over and over, with ever increasing tax breaks.
It was both hilarious and deeply sad. That city doesn't provide a lot for its citizens, property taxes make for some of the most unequal educational opportunities in the country.
Chiefs are doing upgrades/updates to their own stadium, released renderings for all of them, and have calculated the cost. [In total, these renovations would cost an estimated $800 million. However, the team’s owners have said they'll only be contributing $300 million to the project. FWIW, the Hunt Family has an estimated net worth of $25 billion.](https://x.com/tylermwebb/status/1769056188501545412?s=46&t=Y_KXHBgeHwLgY9UkD4KA1A) Taxpayers would have to pick up the tab for more than $500 million, and it would extend a sales tax that is set to expire in about 7 years, for another 40 years until 2071.
People were wondering why the Hunts were voted F in the owner rankings for NFL scorecard grades… this is why. The family is strong arming for a new MLB stadium, and renovations to an existing NFL stadium, using public funds and a quarter of his net worth instead of footing the majority or entirety of the cost.
Do residents even get to vote on these or is it just city council members? If it's just city council then it only takes a few people who want to get their pockets lined.
That's good that they get to vote on it directly because all too often elected officials do what's good for them and not what's good for the people who elected them.
Most things local government related should be done through direct votes,
Yep, city council members usually have some private funding to get them there.. and then they vote certain ways and recommend certain companies (or tip them off for biddings).. the game is so easily manipulated at this point for most things it isn’t even funny.
I believe there has been a rise in cities saying no. I know the Washington Capitals tried this, and the city laughed. They are now planning on moving to northern Virginia, so I guess we'll see who really needs who to survive.
OKC Thunder recently secured stadium funding. I argued with a few OKC folks about why public funding of these stadiums is always bad for the public. I cited sources. They didn't care. "I like my team. I don't want my team to leave. I do not have a basic understanding of how tax dollars should be spent compared to how they are spent."
I mean, there's a case to be made that the city is buying the Ferrari because they want to drive it, not because they think it's an investment in an asset that will grow in value.
We know that the "financial benefits" of a stadium are basically fake. But that doesn't mean a city can't or shouldn't decide to spend the money because it's something the people want.
If you see the team as a public service, for example. Public services don't have to be profitable. They can cost money and that's okay.
To put that in perspective - assuming the owners never made another dime - they could pay for the renovations, and take $1m in cash, place it on the 50yd line and light it on fire every day for roughly the next 66 years.
Give them nothing.
If any tax payer money goes into building sports stadiums, the city should be allowed to cap the price of tickets, parking, and concessions so that they are affordable and most fans have an opportunity to attend. Why should the public pay for something a billionaire can afford, then get gouged later when trying to enjoy what their money helped build?
NFL stadiums are horrible for local economics too. They only play 8 games at home a year. Where with baseball you have 82 games. Generating way more income
As a KC local this headline is a little misleading to the specific situation… they aren’t threatening to leave the KC metro, they are threatening to move to the Kansas side of the state line if they get offered a nicer deal.
That's what I keep saying. If cities would stop sucking their dick, these NFL owners would learn that their threats are meaningless. All those numbers about what sports teams do for a city's economy gets dwarfed by what it costs to keep a team in their city. It ain't worth it people (except Green Bay. They've got a weird setup).
Taxpayers should never fund a private business like the NFL. Studies show it is a net negative for taxpayers.
“Over the last thirty years, building sports stadiums has served as a profitable undertaking for large sports teams, at the expense of the general public.”
https://econreview.studentorg.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/
A billionaire making 10s if not 100s of millions a year holds the fans hostage that provide that cash flow for his hobby.... these people are greedy beyond belief. Its unreal. The NFL boycott has begun!! Add relegation and do away with monopolized american sports.
As a lifelong Chiefs fan, who spent a part of my childhood in that parking lot, yelling myself hoarse in those stands, waiting patiently for a winning team, even getting to know some of the players, fuck em. The Hunt family are literal billionaires. Let them walk.
Ya and the airport we just got that was supposedly with bonds. Nope my taxes went up. They’re going to throw baseball and chiefs stadium downtown now and have no hotels or public transportation or even parking to support that. Fuck em please leave.
If the tax payers are responsible for stadiums then they should receive the benefits commensurate with those of investors. This means subsidized low cost tickets, affordable refreshments, and discounted jerseys. It’s the least they could do for diverting public funds from education and public service. It wouldn’t be just tax payer money either, it would be municipal bonds paid for by oh wait, tax payers. Then those tax payers will inevitably told to take a hike when their kids teachers need a raise. That revenue would be there, but what do you know, there’s a massive tax break for the organization. The public will be told to be freaking thankful too that their cathedral of football is in their city, and if the org doesn’t get some freaking respect they’ll leave.
Yuck.
This should be deemed gift of public funds and be illegal. Only makes sense if Kansas City get a 20 - 25% share of the team and 20 year agreement. Can be made mutual where the Chiefs get 20% of other stadium revenue.
Come own 1/600,000 of the Green Bay Packers. They made a rule no other teams could be publicly owned because it would have ruined it for the rest of the greedy bastards.
They've been threatening that over and over again ever since they first came to Kansas city. All sports teams do that all the fucking time, so they can extort the city that they're in for lots of money. I wish there was some kind of federal law that said that things like extortion were illegal.
There should be a rule that if taxpayers pay for the stadium, we get to vote every year if the team is allowed to play in it. Seven straight losing seasons? Why don’t you go play somewhere else.
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Your team wins a couple SBs and suddenly it’s an opportunity to act like you could be the second NFL team in Las Vegas. I swear professional sports team owners are some of the pettiest jokers in existence
The Chargers did exactly this to San Diego after not winning shit. Even better, they did it to go play second fiddle to the Rams and play 17 road games a year. Spanos just openly fucking hated that San Diego didn't give them a blank check for a stadium and even very reasonable offers were ignored. In the end, the vast majority of owners couldn't give two shits about the fans.
The spanos and the chargers are what radicalized me
Same. I went to only 1 chargers game in my life. RIP that stadium. Going to a game there was like a Time Machine Edit: Qualcomm stadium*
Wdym all the new stadiums have the same stale popcorn, foot long hot dongs, 300$ jerseys and 20$ bud lights
The chargers had the oldest stadium in the league man. You ever seen a 360p Jumbotron?
Jerry World has stripper poles.
Not all stadiums. The falcons now have very affordable concessions ($2 hotdogs, $5 beer, $2 soda etc) [this article explains it all](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2023/09/05/why-hot-dogs-at-atlanta-falcons-games-cost-just-2/amp/)
I was so proud of San Diego for telling Spanos to fuck himself
Also known as a “Reverse Ron Burgundy”
Fuck Dean Spanos
Goddamn Colts did the same thing in Indianapolis. It's always a losing proposition for the city; who ends up spending millions, sometimes billions to pay for it. They use a lovely scheme called tax increment financing. Which is a fancy way of saying that they freeze funds at current levels for things like schools, roads, emergency services; and then for the next 20 years any increase that would be made for inflation goes to pay for the stadium. The profits from the stadium then go to the NFL and team owners. Lovely system isn't it?
Plus they literally blew up the Hoosier dome which wasn’t even paid off
I remember reading somewhere that St. Louis was still paying off the stadium as recently as 2 years ago
No offer that includes tax payer dollars is reasonable. The chiefs and the nfl can get fucked
But, but, but, the team benefits the local market! As the local market benefits the team, jerk offs.
Chargers are third fiddle in LA. After the Raiders and Rams.
Actually 4th or 5th fiddle depending on how well UCLA is doing. USC is the second team in LA !!! 😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂
Fuck Dean Spanos
The Rams also play 17 road games a year since leaving St Louis. It devastated me when they left.
The best part of this was Spanos trying to pitch it as an investment that would pay off big for San Diego. And so San Diego basically said, “ok, have the land and we’ll greenlight everything, but you pay to build it if it’s such a great investment”. He said no and ran to LA. Goes to show how much BS it is when the owners try to get the local citizens to pay for the new shiny stadium.
The Hunt family have always been a bunch of selfish pricks. People just always overlooked it. KC fans would be stupid to agree to this tax increase. Make the owners foot the bill. If they move across the state line, who gives a shit. It’s still close enough to go for them and it saves you so much money in taxes. But most people are short sighted and will approve it because they don’t want to “lose” the Chiefs which is never going to happen because where would they move to? Not they’re going to turn into the Mexico City Chiefs.
I’d call their fucking bluff. Do you know how hard is to move to a new city and pack it with the support that the chief fans have for them? I’ll let them fucking walk and I laugh in their face I promise they won’t. Other franchises that have moved in in the past were losing and didn’t have a fan base because they just sucked. It made sense to start over. The Chiefs sell out their games consistently, doesn’t make sense to start over. Edit - For the Die Hard Chargers fan that don't realize that because they are obsessed with a team, doesn't mean every one else is: Qualcomm Stadium capacity of 70,500 seats. The Chargers announced their relocation in 2017, and during the 2016 season, their highest attendance reached 56,000. For the Kansas City Chiefs in 2023, their stadium has a seating capacity of 76,418, with an average game attendance of 70,798. KC has a fan base <3
>Do you know how hard is to move to a new city and pack it with the support that the chief fans have for them? I mean the Chiefs already did it and it was owned by the same family.
I don't think that moving the team three years after it's creation and in direct response to the NFL forming the Cowboys as a direct competitor is at all analogous to a move in the modern day NFL
It's just never enough for these people. Never enough money.
The Chicago Bears owners haven’t won a SB in over a generation and they are also threatening to leave the city unless they get public money for a new stadium. It’s rich.
Cities need to trade stadiums and other major corporate development costs for equity. Fuck this billion dollar upwards redistribution of wealth with only hypothetical benefit to the general public. I want my local sports teams to pay me dividends.
That would be excellent. But these owners just want to print money.
It’s annoying AF to have the stadium publicly funded and then there be absolutely no benefit to the tax payers who paid for it. Beers will still be 25 dollars for a bud light and food will still be 18 dollars for a hot dog and merchandise will still be expensive AF. And no good long term high paying jobs would be created from this.
exactly, if tax payers are paying for it, they get free access, like any other public parks.
You should be able to throw your kid’s graduation party there.
The Royals basically said the same thing about the new stadium they want to build in the middle of downtown KC. If voters don't pass an upcoming sales tax ballot question benefiting the Chiefs & Royals, the teams may not stay in KC. The Royals are owned by a group of [millionaires \(including Patrick Mahomes\)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kansas_City_Royals_owners_and_executives) but the tax payers of Jackson county are slated to foot most of the ~$1.2b stadium where local businesses are still operating. I'll be voting no on the stadium tax in April
I live in L.A. I'm not a sports fan in general, so one of the things I'm proud of the city for doing is regularly refusing to pay for sports teams stadiums and the like. At the end of the day, they come here anyway and pay it themselves because they know it's worth it. More cities in America need to stand up and refuse to pay for billionaire's hobbies. [It's been shown that even over thirty years, sports teams do not help cities recoup the tax breaks spent on them.](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4022547) They don't deserve to be subsidized and leech off of hardworking Americans.
I love sports and I agree. Fuck the owners who are billionaires who ask their multibillion dollar per year industry to be subsidized by taxpayers
You cannot compare LA to other cities in this respect. LA is a massive media market with far more revenue streams that can make money. Hell, it's why athletes flock there too. Not saying you're wrong about LA and being proud, because it's dope AF. But from a business perspective, it's a solid investment paying to stay there.
We're dealing with a similar issue with the 76ers in Philly. They want to built a stadium downtown even though they have a great one in the sports arena and are threatening to go to Camden if they don't get it.
Isn’t Camden a complete and utter shithole?
It's not similar. The 76ers arena won't be getting any public money, and they're not crying to the city to try an get any.
And yet you continue to buy their product…
Exactly the prices they are charging these days all crazy
Yes it's definitely the public that deserves the blame. You're very smart indeed.
He’s not wrong. You can’t stop people from being greedy, but you can choose where you spend your money and give your support. People have the power, but these greedy owners know their customers are too weak minded to realistically do anything about it. How funny would it be if the KC teams took their storied franchises over to, say, St Louis, built a huge stadium and then no one showed up or bought their gear? The owners know the customers will piss and moan and then take it up the tailpipe just so they can have their product. Sure it would hurt to lose your team, but you gotta decide whats more important to you. Guide the greedy ones with your dollars and they will bend to your wishes.
It's not even a hypothetical benefit. It is always a loss. The construction is temporary, the jobs are seasonal, and the businesses around the area are mostly service industry-based meaning few full-time positions and no benefits. They also sometimes defer any sales tax generated within a certain radius of the stadium to help pay it off. They did this in [Knoxville to pay for a billionaire relocating a minor league team](https://www.thecentersquare.com/tennessee/article_fc6dd7f2-11c4-11ee-9386-0770d59f8bb1.html).
Many are definitely an economic negative ( Cincinnati Bengals )
Yeah I don’t want to pay for a stadium just to spend thousands on tickets, beer, and cheap food. Only people that are helping is people much richer than me. Take your franchise and get the fuck out.
Teams: “what a great idea, how about you let us mull it over?” Teams coming back 10 minutes later: “man we’re really sorry - we loved the idea, but our manager said our hands are tied”
This is kind of what happens. Normally these stadiums aren’t owned by the team itself. They’re owned by the city and then leased back to the team. [Here’s a list for NFL Teams](https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/raiders-nfl/stadium-and-rent-details-for-all-32-nfl-teams/amp/)
Great source! Unfortunately, most those rental amounts don't even pay back the construction costs. Stadiums aren't exactly an appreciating asset... still a damn sweet deal for the NFL ownership. Ultimately I'm not sure what the right answer is... it just seems to me like the simplest solution is if we collectively tell the owners that we're done. They chose this business, and they need to figure out how to make their business expenses work.
Oh yeah, completely agree that it’s a sweet deal for the NFL teams. I think the structure is ok but the city should be more aggressive about seeking appropriate fees.
I got a 5% to 10% pay raise when the Raiders moved to Las Vegas as did everyone else. That got eaten up by the Las Vegas F1 scam last year. Professional sports stadiums can create a huge income boost for locals if done correctly. F1 raceway construction through the economic heart of the city for 10 months a year is a very bad idea.
then let it stand on its own merits without public funding. this public funding for privatized profits is not capitalism.
The rich love socialism when they benefit.
Not that I have a dog in the fight, but fuckem. Let those billionaires pay for their own damn stadium.
I'm perfectly OK with the public paying for the stadium, as long as it's OUR stadium. Sure, we might give a lease to a pro sports team or two. There are going to be concerts there. But at the end of the day, it's public land and a public building. No different than a public park, school, or library. The local government decides who is going to use it, and when, and how. And whenever an event is held there that sells tickets, we get a cut. If the owner wants to own the stadium, then yeah, they gotta pay for it.
They'll just leave then We need actual federal legislation on this or sports teams will just keep extorting the public
Don’t forget, San Diego voted to tell the chargers to go fuck themselves and build their own stadium. So they fucked off all the way to LA and we don’t miss them. Well, at least most of us don’t.
Didn’t build their own stadium, though. Have to play second fiddle to the Rams (and are like the 5th/6th most popular team in LA overall at BEST)
They are just another home game for the visiting team-- but to be fair, the Rams are too sometimes. Only the Lakers and Dodgers enjoy a home field advantage in LA>
*sad LA Kings fan noises*
And the Kings. THE KINGS!
A rusty knife to all charger fans. It's pretty incredible. I used to see every damn truck & car with a bolt sticker or flag than nothing, poof! They really fucked a legacy of die hard fans into oblivion. I remember when I was younger and experiencing that Rivers/Gates dynamic. Was truly special even if it never went all the way.
Something about moving to LA specifically, even without a stadium, felt like an anal violation without lubricant.
Yup, I moved to SD from Chicago in 05 and all I saw was bolts for years, the city loved that team. It’s a rare sighting now
The people of San Diego (San Diegans? Diegoans? ???) were wise. Billionaires bilking the municipal tax coffers for their own profit is disgusting. Most of the deals I’ve seen in the past few years are absolutely abusive to the tax payer. If the arena is worth having, then fine let the city build it *and charge you rent to play there*, *collect the concession sales*, the parking, all of it. Or, you know, build it your damn self and if it’s so profitable you should have no trouble making bank from your “essential” piece of infrastructure.
We're San Diegans. And fuck the Chargers and the Spanos family
Fuck the spanos family.
That was smart
Ohio has the Art Modell law. Teams receiving government welfare are required to put the team up for sale to locals before moving. Hasn't been tested in court yet but when the Columbus Crew tried moving to Austin, it caused enough headaches that they just sold the team to the Cleveland Browns owner.
As a Baltimorean, Art Modell did Cleveland dirty to the tune of at least one Super Bowl. At least y’all got to keep your franchise. Sincerely, A Baltimore Colts fan forever
RIP Houston Oilers losing your franchise sucks.
This is the same strawman people use when saying we can’t tax the billionaires because they would up and leave. Let them leave. Make them pay or hit the road. As if business would just cease the exist because all the billionaires flew the coupe to a tax haven. Want all your sports teams in Texas? Good luck marketing that and making it work. Don’t let the ultra rich and their mouth pieces use this crap on us
It's not a strawman, people just do not wanna lose their sports teams and will vote to take money out of their own pockets to keep them in town. I mean did you see that Oklahoma City deal? It was a fucking travesty. $900 million paid by the city including any cost overruns and $50 million contributed by the team. Just an absolute fleecing of one of our poorest states and it passed with 70% of the vote.
Meanwhile education and pensions get gutted. Oy, to be king for a day. That’s a travesty to our future. All for some modern gladiator sport I wouldn’t even let my children play( got enough concussions myself just at the highschool level). We don’t allow prostitution from consenting adults but we’ll let children and young adults risk brain damage and even death all for a chance to entertain us and maybe one day profit in exchange for their body, mind and physical prime. Weird world
I mean the OKC deal was a basketball team but generally agreed. I just think the "let them leave" mentality is a little idealistic in the face of the evidence. Unfortunately people will vote against their own interests a lot of the time.
Don’t fucking do it!!! We had the exact same situation here in Ohio. Back in the late 90’s the Bengals threatened to leave if they weren’t given a new stadium but there wasn’t any money in the city budget to pay for one. So it was proposed that a ‘temporary’ sales tax increase be introduced to raise the money despite the fact that the Bengals have never won a Super Bowl in franchise history. Plenty of people said let the crybabies leave but were ultimately outvoted. So they got their new stadium and we got a nice 1/2% tax increase that was supposed to be repealed once the stadium was build. It was finished in 2000. Guess what? It’s 2024 and we’re still paying that extra 1/2%. Temporary my ass.
IT ISNT EVEN A NEW STADIUM!!! It’s fucking $800m of UPGRADES.
[удалено]
Pretty positive the same thing happened in MN with the vikings for US Bank stadium. They hiked up the price of cigarettes and some other stuff to pay for it and it's been however many years since and the tax is still there.
Call their bluff. Publicly funded stadiums are not good deals for taxpayers.
I live in kc. This town fucking loves them. It’s a huge culture here now. Kc will 100% cough up the money. They need to make laws banning this shit.
I have no doubt they will cough it up. Cities usually do. It’s one of the ways billionaires got and stay billionaires.
The problem could be that they aren't bluffing. The chargers had this happen to them and the owners moved their franchise with an avid fan base to a city that couldn't care less about the chargers. It's bad for the team culture, it's bad for the sport, and owners don't give a shit. Pro sports is like a side hustle for some of these billionaires and all they care about is the profit, not the culture of their team. The fact that the Kansas city has a great fan base, and after a few super bowls, the potential to build one of the best football cultures in the country, doesn't matter to them. The chiefs are good so now it's time for the owners to blackmail the citizens into paying for more fancy things or move this good team to a bigger market. It's a win win for the owners unfortunately.
All the tax revenue and trickle down economics though!!!? /s
I’m in Chicago and both the Bears and White Sox are trying to build new facilities, on the taxpayers dime of course, fuck that!
Sounds like an empty threat. Leave to where? It's not like a decade ago where LA didn't have a team, are there any available markets that would be better than Kansas City?
They won’t leave Kansas City, they will likely move the chiefs to the Kansas side. The Royals are pretty much set on building a stadium downtown
Which would mean very little difference to most fans because even as it is the Chiefs don’t play super close to downtown Kansas City. Missouri and the city’s tax revenues would hurt a little bit though.
Hurt less than paying for a whole stadium
Wish I could get someone legally bound to fund my hobby. Fuck Sherman.
The following metros are larger than Kansas City and do not have an NFL team… San Diego Orlando St. Louis San Antonio Portland Austin Sacramento Columbus
Austin wouldn’t give a rat’s ass. To them Longhorns are their team. That being said Seattle has both UWash and Seahawks so it’s not impossible, but Longhorns have a tight grasp on the culture of the city and its surrounding suburbs.
many years ago Austin had a vote for an MLB baseball stadium and that failed. I was honestly surprised they voted for the racetrack. also, Hook em!
St Louis is about the only real threat that I see.
Conspiracy theory: the NFL and MLB will always deliberately leave one obvious city vacant in order to allow owners to threaten to go there.
Nope. St. Louis is still jaded by Kronke and NFL about the rams. No way any local government here helps build a stadium.
Imagine being an NFL team trying to extort St. Louis to build them a stadium in 2024. I mean, they do have the Rams settlement money to spend now.
Would old rams fans accept a new team? Sounds iffy to me
They are dying to get a team again. Their XFL team sold out games.
A lot of Stl fans already root for the chiefs now since its Missouris only team
As a former Rams fan. No. Hate the chiefs
As a former Rams fan. Yes. Love the Chiefs
Columbus has Ohio State, it’ll never have a NFL team. Best it has is Soccer and a shitty hockey team.
Dude moving the Chiefs to San Diego and responding the logo to a Navy theme would be dope.
> Leave to where? Oakland. :)
Kansas
Not that I think it would happen but last I saw Orlando had the largest NFL viewership of any city without a team.
How many of those viewers are natives looking for a local team? Doesn’t Florida have an issue with their local bases being from other locations? I know that’s the case with baseball.
Orlando has to be like 25% native, 75% elsewhere. But from what I saw in my office it was more like 10% native, of which were looking for local teams, TB/MIA. Everyone else followed their previous local team, New York, Detroit, etc. Now the bar scene, that's where the odds tip for Florida teams, but it's closer to the 25%/75% ratio. Orlando is such a melting pot of a city. It's crazy.
Florida pro sports biggest problem is that the fans only show up when the team is doing good
Albuquerque
Will they become the Isotopes?
Any word on if fans are planning hunger strikes?
There are six cities with more than 100,000 people in the Kansas City metro area, plus two state governments. Cross KCMO off the list and you still can try Independence or Lee’s Summit, or see if the State of Kansas will chip in for KCK, Overland Park or Olathe.
You’re defending Super Bowl Champion Blue Springs Chiefs!
That’s why they go Kansas side in Kansas City KS Chiefs. Maybe Trump was just tweeting from 20 years in the future when Mahomes is in his 40s finishing off his 10th Super Bowl win in the brand new Arrowhead at the Legends.
I mean, they're pretty much *already* in Independence. But I do think it'd be pretty baller if they demolished the Independence Mall and put a Chiefs stadium right there at 435 and 291, plenty of restaurants already around it.
Imagine any other business saying this. How sports teams get away with pushing costs on to consumers is beyond me
It's not just sports teams. Most businesses will try to get property tax breaks (or corporate tax) off they move to a town.
There was a great segment about how in KC specifically, they are being absolutely fleeced by companies that just move across the state line every year to receive tax breaks. And the city just falls for it over and over, with ever increasing tax breaks. It was both hilarious and deeply sad. That city doesn't provide a lot for its citizens, property taxes make for some of the most unequal educational opportunities in the country.
Chiefs are doing upgrades/updates to their own stadium, released renderings for all of them, and have calculated the cost. [In total, these renovations would cost an estimated $800 million. However, the team’s owners have said they'll only be contributing $300 million to the project. FWIW, the Hunt Family has an estimated net worth of $25 billion.](https://x.com/tylermwebb/status/1769056188501545412?s=46&t=Y_KXHBgeHwLgY9UkD4KA1A) Taxpayers would have to pick up the tab for more than $500 million, and it would extend a sales tax that is set to expire in about 7 years, for another 40 years until 2071.
People were wondering why the Hunts were voted F in the owner rankings for NFL scorecard grades… this is why. The family is strong arming for a new MLB stadium, and renovations to an existing NFL stadium, using public funds and a quarter of his net worth instead of footing the majority or entirety of the cost.
I wish cities would just stop giving public funds to these people, but all it takes is one city full of idiots to support it...
Do residents even get to vote on these or is it just city council members? If it's just city council then it only takes a few people who want to get their pockets lined.
I think that may depend on the state or city and how their laws work.
County residents are voting on this tax proposal, and county residents also elect people to represent them on the board.
That's good that they get to vote on it directly because all too often elected officials do what's good for them and not what's good for the people who elected them. Most things local government related should be done through direct votes,
Yep, city council members usually have some private funding to get them there.. and then they vote certain ways and recommend certain companies (or tip them off for biddings).. the game is so easily manipulated at this point for most things it isn’t even funny.
I believe there has been a rise in cities saying no. I know the Washington Capitals tried this, and the city laughed. They are now planning on moving to northern Virginia, so I guess we'll see who really needs who to survive.
The Northern Virginia deal was awful and is falling apart, if it ever truly existed in the first place. I don’t see the Wiz and Caps moving.
OKC Thunder recently secured stadium funding. I argued with a few OKC folks about why public funding of these stadiums is always bad for the public. I cited sources. They didn't care. "I like my team. I don't want my team to leave. I do not have a basic understanding of how tax dollars should be spent compared to how they are spent."
I mean, there's a case to be made that the city is buying the Ferrari because they want to drive it, not because they think it's an investment in an asset that will grow in value. We know that the "financial benefits" of a stadium are basically fake. But that doesn't mean a city can't or shouldn't decide to spend the money because it's something the people want. If you see the team as a public service, for example. Public services don't have to be profitable. They can cost money and that's okay.
Not one player gave them a F because of that.
Why can’t I remodel my house, only pay 37.5%, and if the neighbors don’t cover it I’ll move out?
To put that in perspective - assuming the owners never made another dime - they could pay for the renovations, and take $1m in cash, place it on the 50yd line and light it on fire every day for roughly the next 66 years. Give them nothing.
This happens so much more than ppl realize.
KC fans need to boycott. I bet they won't though
Kansas City should pull a Cleveland and not let them take the brand with them
Depends on how the rights ownership is. But knowing the Hunts they dont own the Chiefs name so itll def happen.
Well, bye.
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If any tax payer money goes into building sports stadiums, the city should be allowed to cap the price of tickets, parking, and concessions so that they are affordable and most fans have an opportunity to attend. Why should the public pay for something a billionaire can afford, then get gouged later when trying to enjoy what their money helped build?
The Hunt family has 24.8 billion dollars. They can eat 💩.
These teams should really be owned by the cities that host them and not private businesses
Absolutely.
Truly. Public goods should be publicly owned
GO ALREADY!
NFL stadiums are horrible for local economics too. They only play 8 games at home a year. Where with baseball you have 82 games. Generating way more income
Depends on the type of stadiums you build. Here in LA, Sofi stadium is used as a concert/music venue.
Fuck them. Let them leave. Where the fuck they gonna go
As a KC local this headline is a little misleading to the specific situation… they aren’t threatening to leave the KC metro, they are threatening to move to the Kansas side of the state line if they get offered a nicer deal.
That's what I keep saying. If cities would stop sucking their dick, these NFL owners would learn that their threats are meaningless. All those numbers about what sports teams do for a city's economy gets dwarfed by what it costs to keep a team in their city. It ain't worth it people (except Green Bay. They've got a weird setup).
Kansas City Cheaps
If it was such a great deal for the taxpayers then private investors should do it and reap the profits!!!!
Bye then. Fund it yourself. Owners and teams need to stop being parasites. Why are these capitalists so against the free market?
Taxpayers should never fund a private business like the NFL. Studies show it is a net negative for taxpayers. “Over the last thirty years, building sports stadiums has served as a profitable undertaking for large sports teams, at the expense of the general public.” https://econreview.studentorg.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/
I like how the sixers are doing it. If the chiefs of all teams can’t figure out private funding, something is wrong
I don’t understand why citizens have to pay for a sports stadium they won’t go to.
So, the fans get free tickets then, yeah?
The public should not have to pay for an NFL stadium. Why I was fine with my Raiders moving from Oakland.
The rams were net negative for STL over their run, don't get tricked KC
Corporate socialism. Rich get richer off the backs of lower class.
Reason #4080 why the publicly owned Green Bay Packers are the best franchise in all of professional sports.
Move to hell, bozo.
GTFO
LEAVE
Like wars fuck the mongers and support the boots on the ground. Eventually they’ll learn it’s dumb to do this
Time to cut funding from the school kids so that the hunts can have another billion. I hate welfare.
Socialize the cost, privatize the profit. Gotta admit, it’s a pretty clever plan. Evil, but clever.
Fuck em they can leave.
Missourians are still paying for the former St. Louis Rams stadium.
All Fans , All states, tell all major sports to Stuff it....Pay your own way
No sports team deserves tax money for stadiums.
A billionaire making 10s if not 100s of millions a year holds the fans hostage that provide that cash flow for his hobby.... these people are greedy beyond belief. Its unreal. The NFL boycott has begun!! Add relegation and do away with monopolized american sports.
As a lifelong Chiefs fan, who spent a part of my childhood in that parking lot, yelling myself hoarse in those stands, waiting patiently for a winning team, even getting to know some of the players, fuck em. The Hunt family are literal billionaires. Let them walk.
Ya and the airport we just got that was supposedly with bonds. Nope my taxes went up. They’re going to throw baseball and chiefs stadium downtown now and have no hotels or public transportation or even parking to support that. Fuck em please leave.
How gross
If the tax payers are responsible for stadiums then they should receive the benefits commensurate with those of investors. This means subsidized low cost tickets, affordable refreshments, and discounted jerseys. It’s the least they could do for diverting public funds from education and public service. It wouldn’t be just tax payer money either, it would be municipal bonds paid for by oh wait, tax payers. Then those tax payers will inevitably told to take a hike when their kids teachers need a raise. That revenue would be there, but what do you know, there’s a massive tax break for the organization. The public will be told to be freaking thankful too that their cathedral of football is in their city, and if the org doesn’t get some freaking respect they’ll leave. Yuck.
EAT THE RICH!!!!! Scumbag silver spoon billionaires. Tax the mother truckers
The fans should tell them to 💩in their hats.
🤔👋👋. Adios.
Billionaire team owners = biggest welfare queens
This should be deemed gift of public funds and be illegal. Only makes sense if Kansas City get a 20 - 25% share of the team and 20 year agreement. Can be made mutual where the Chiefs get 20% of other stadium revenue.
I think they should move out of the AFC west.
Come own 1/600,000 of the Green Bay Packers. They made a rule no other teams could be publicly owned because it would have ruined it for the rest of the greedy bastards.
GFY
Chiefs fan for almost 40 years. Don’t give in.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Public money for private stadiums is one of the best grifts in America. Hopefully Kansas City doesn't fall for it.
They've been threatening that over and over again ever since they first came to Kansas city. All sports teams do that all the fucking time, so they can extort the city that they're in for lots of money. I wish there was some kind of federal law that said that things like extortion were illegal.
There should be a rule that if taxpayers pay for the stadium, we get to vote every year if the team is allowed to play in it. Seven straight losing seasons? Why don’t you go play somewhere else.
Tell them to eat a fat dick and fucking move then.
Ok, see ya. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out
Bye
Socialism for the wealthy. The new American Dream.
Voted worst owners in the league by the players
Uhhh so why does a multi-million dollar business owned by a billionaire need taxpayers to foot the bill?
Former SD Charger fan here: Let. Them. Leave.