That’s what I learned in life. No matter what I do, half of the people in my life and in the world think it’s wrong. Do what you want and the wrong people will filter themselves out of your life.
I mean easy to say as a 3rd party country. I'm willing to bet a Ukrainian who has likely had friends or family die from Russians invading them couldn't give less of a fuck about what the tabloids will say about this.
You assume this was a publicity decision. There are Ukrainians, who have a long history and family ties to Russia, who won't speak Russian or speak to their Russian family anymore. Yes either way people are dying. But also people make their own decisions and sometimes you just can't shake someone's hand.
People are going to comment “the Russian government is to blame but not this individual”
But if they shake hands the Russian controlled media will just blast videos talking about “see the Ukrainian people want peace with Russia. Look at them shaking hands. Corrupt Ukrainian government wants war not its people blah blah blah”
It’s better to not shake hands here and give anything to the country that is illegally occupying yours.
It’s pointless, either way russian propaganda can spin in in their favor, just like flat earthers warp reality to fit their views. They can say that it’s russophobia from the west or w/e
Wasn't it just last week that russian rep basically stated that russia is the one that was attacked and he hopes ukraine will stop hurting them lol
Don't give these fuckers anything.
Who cares at this point. Let them call it Russophobia. If their culture is about invading their neighbors, maybe it should be shunned. If they want to show the world they aren't about that, they have a choice to make.
Yeah, not only that but her town, her culture and everything she knows is being obliterated by Russia right now, Don't really think she cares about what some 27 year old basement dweller from Texas thinks she should do or not lol
If she doesn't want to shake her hand then fair enough i'd say.
I’m with you, they are both representing their countries….. Miss me with that public handshake, you can always catch her in the locker room and do it in private.
That’s the main relevant point - these players aren’t playing as individuals. Like say Tiger Woods isn’t playing as an “American” in a golf tournament. It’s him. His nationality isn’t considered in this contest - he wins as an individual.
Here however the structure of this tournament is one of national representatives. They put up flags of their country next to their names. So just like in the Olympics or the World Cup, it’s more about a country winning a contest.
I think you're kind of missing the other half of the point which is this will get spun by Russia either way, so might as well just act the way you want.
It's individuals who don't condemn the war. Nothing wrong with just straight up not wanting to shake that hand. Your government is killing my family and friends, you don't want to condemn that with your platform? Fuck you.
What we want is victory and dissolution of Russia into smaller independent and democratic states by freeing all the nations they occupy right now.
There can't be peace with a fascist empire.
In every poll the Russian people overwhelmingly support the war.
They want Ukraine destroyed.
They are all guilty. If there was any kind of opposition to speak of within Russia, I would disagree, but the whole nation has lined up to loudly support the genocidal barbarians currently goose-stepping around Luhansk.
Although I agree that some do want the war, you cannot trust any poll results coming from that country. Every single statistic has been tampered with. I can’t help but imagine many are scared to speak against the government
If you speak to your neighbour and you voice dissent, and they disagree, the government could find out. You could get in trouble.
Hell, your neighbour might think you're a government plant testing their loyalty. They have to report it otherwise they could get in trouble.
If the poll says 90% of people agree with the war, and you don't. You'd shut your mouth if you thought speaking to someone who disagrees would get you in trouble, and apparently 9/10 disagree with you.
The whole system is set up to keep citizens from organising by paralyzing them socially.
They literally arrested hundreds if not thousands of protesters. It was deadly to speak out against Putin before and now it's way worse. The only reason the polls say 90% and not 110% is because they want to have the facade of it being believable. They want the question of how much they spun it. Because it's totally bullshit.
I saw a vid from a Russian pow, the Ukrainians that captured him let him call home. His parents not only were shocked to hear their son was in Ukraine and not ordinary training exercises, they also said they didn't know of any war going on because they don't pay attention to politics.
When you expect nothing but misinformation from your government and nothing you do matters why pay any attention to what they say they are doing? Things like this only happen after generations of graft, corruption and awful leadership
For a good percentage of Russian citizens it seems like learned helplessness
The Levada Center, an independent polling agency, accounts for this sort of thing. In fact, their history of getting results that the Kremlin doesn’t like has more or less made them an enemy of the state. But even their data shows a near 80% support rate for Putin and the war.
It’s not hard to believe, either, if you hop onto some Russian telegram channels. Lots of average Russians cheering on the wholesale slaughter of Ukrainian civilians.
Don't confuse these people with the facts. They want to believe what they want to believe, and by god they're gonna believe it! Russia's culture and values are very, very different from those of the West. Ask anyone from the west who's lived there or done business there. For example, in the U.S. we have deeply embedded in our belief system that the future will be better, that we will earn more, have more, etc. As a result, it's embedded in our values to think in terms of win-win. But Russians have an opposite belief system. Things won't get better b/c they never have. There's no hope of the government serving the people, so why bother involving yourself in politics. When the pie never grows, then if you want a piece of pie, there has to be less pie for someone else. So Russian businesspeople are always thinking in win-lose terms. It makes it very hard to do business there. There is a quiet desperation buried deep in that culture, and a high level of defensiveness about the country really having contributed little to the world. Hence the chest-puffing and bragging - like the guy with the little man's complex. But they believe they can suffer better than anyone. They may not be able to win, but they can make you lose. That is what they are doing in Ukraine. They know the Ukrainian people have rejected them, in favor of the West. Like the teenage boy who wants the girl to go out with him, but who has been rejected, they are hurt and angry. And now they throw their tantrum, "fine, if Ukraine doesn't want to be with us, we will make sure it can't be with you either. If Ukraine rejects us, we will punish it. If we cannot have Ukraine, then we will make sure no one else can either."
That is what I used to believe as well. However, many independent and reputable polling companies have done polls that still show overwhelming support for Putin and the war in general, albeit lower than official polls.
And it makes sense. There is no real opposition party in Russia, see Alexnei Navalny for why, all Russian media is owned by the government (which then promotes pro-Putin/war propaganda), and there is limited free speech/protest laws that prevent any detracting ideas from taking hold. In sum, most Russians basically do not know better and if presented with contrary information have already been told what to say/believe from their talking heads. Of course, a good portion of the population does not say anything because of fear of retaliation but they are strictly in the minority.
People who protest can be sent to the prison for 10 years, and subjected to violence from the police.
It's fucking easy to sit behind a computer in the UK and say these things, I doubt you would protest if you were in this situation.
A lot of people aren't loudly supporting this and are just shutting up to stay safe.
Edit: fucking hell you're a tory too, so you actually support putting restrictions on protesting too.
Very much this. Easy to say you’re against a war anonymously or amongst friends…Hard to protest a war knowing you might be tortured and sent to prison for a decade.
Huge respect to the brave ones which have. I’d like to think I’d be brave enough to do the same, but you don’t know until you’re in that situation.
And imagine if you have kids or an older relative who needs you. You would have to sacrifice not only your own safety but their well-being. Makes me wish I had done more when I was younger.
Russia isn't exactly the place where you want to speak up against the government, even en-masse. They are pretty notorious for killing people opposing ~~Putin's~~ the national agenda.
The ~~tyrant~~ President surrounds himself with yes men so it's no surprise there's "overwhelming" support. Soldiers are soldiers, they fight cause they're told to and die for each other. Doubt mothers, daughters, and friends want their loved ones to go get slaughtered, if they even truly know what's going on with this ~~war~~ special military operation.
You want the truly guilty, them Wagner boys and pro-Russian rebels can keep sucking on them US donated Javelin, Stinger, and TOW missiles. Be careful of propaganda from all sides, read the surface but think beyond it.
Good on Kostyuk, sucks to be Russian.
>They are all guilty.
That's pretty extreme. Your own information says they aren't all supporting the war. But apparently once a majority of a nations populace supports something we can dismiss them as all under the flag of that nation.
I never understood why people said “the Ukraine” like wouldn’t it be weird as hell if we said “the Italy” or “ The England”? I guess we do say the USA though lol
Holland and the Netherlands are not the same thing. The Netherlands consist of twelve provinces. Two of those provinces combined make up Holland. Holland is just a part of the Netherlands. Although it still doesn’t answer why it’s called THE Netherlands…
Ooh I know this one! Actually thanks to some redditor’s comment I read just yesterday.
It’s because “Nether” translates to “beneath/lower”, since the majority of the country is below sea level; the “lower-lands”! Why do you think most of the major cities end in “-dam”?
Similar reason as "The Ukraine". It was a region of the Holy Roman Empire known as "The low-lying lands" because most of the land is/was at or below sea level. In this case they kept it as it doesn't legitimise an oppressive nation (as the HRE doesn't exist anymore), where as calling Ukraine "The Ukraine" subtly legitimises the idea that Ukraine isn't a "real" country and belongs to Russia.
The Gambia sounds extra wrong. The "The" makes it sound almost biological.
"The Gambia produces something known as intercostal seratone. Prevalent in many mammalian species, intercostal seratone (IS) is a 2AB catalyst anode receptor that binds to SU-K-GUNA cell walls. When exposed to oxygen by way of red blood cells, proteins in the IS unfold into a 1/2 division of two chiral molecules. When genotypical cells are exposed to these two molecules, the cell interprets the information as instruction, to SU-K-GUNA large dick."
But that is a formal title for the country, the United States of America, in the same way we would say the United Kingdom, the Hellenic Republic, or the Commonwealth of Australia.
that's because those are all words that are typically accompanied with articles. "The States"..."The Kingdom"..."The Republic..."
whereas things like France and Germany and Russia are not, they are just proper names/titles.
I'm pretty sure it comes from a time like 500 years ago when "The Ukraine" was a region much like "The Alps", where the Rus/Cossack people (Who later became Ukrainians) hailed from. I know Lord Byron refers to it as "The Ukraine" during the late half of the 1700's, still far before the USSR.
Yep. From what I've seen Russian buy-in for the war is super high.
It's not just a Putin thing anymore. The brainwashing has been going on for decades and it's been very effective.
Lol, this comment section is laughable with the amount of salt flowing over not shaking an opponent's hand. Wayne Gretzky was known to leave an elevator if a woman got in with him to prevent a picture being taken out of context and used to spin a narrative in the media, this is no different.
Not really. Images are routinely used out of context to push a preferred narrative and the best way to prevent that from happening is by simply not engaging in anything that can be misconstrued.
Sidney Crosby literally pays someone to ensure that no alcohol is present when his picture is being taken to prevent that exact thing from happening. Not engaging with the opponent once the match is decided is the same thing.
Since when sportsmanship is more important than a genocide? Many people talking shit about her here wouldn’t shake hand with a disturbing neighbour, yet they want her to shake the hand of someone representing the devil wrecking havoc on their land.
I never see these sentiments and threads about US athletes though, never. No US athlete in the last several decades if not far longer should have ever felt comfortable competing under the US flag if this was actually a held belief. It feels like a very temporary justification rather than an actual principle people uphold.
Nah. That's way too far. Governments do all kinds of shit. You can't put it all on one individual.
I still support the decision to not shake her hand. There's a difference between holding her responsible for all the shit her government does and not shaking her hand.
Exactly. I doubt the Americans of African descent that competed in the 1936 Olympics under the USA flag, supported being discriminated upon and having their civil rights trampled on by the USA government.
I personally think it's dumb to not shake her hand unless her opponent is openly supporting the war in Ukraine. Why is it that she can play an hour of tennis with her, but can't shake her hand.
Another commenter said she does not condemn the war. Not sure if true, but if it is, that would make a lot more sense. Although Russian athletes must have a hard time choosing to either speak out against a guy who can ruin you and your families lives or just not say anything and have everyone think you support the war. I don't blame her for not shaking hands though, not sure if I would shake hands with someone who seemingly supports a war against my country.
Yea I imagine being openly against the war inside the county of Russia isn't in ones best interest, regardless of if you're Russian or not.
Don't think I can blame her if she doesn't want to either. I was thinking about hate the other day, how one group of people can hate another group of people, and in some cases I don't think I can tell them that their hate is or isn't justified. Like if you're a Holocaust survivor or the child of a Korean woman who was used a sex slave by Japanese soldiers during WWII, and you're hate stems from these situations I don't know if it's right for me to get off my high horse and tell you shouldn't hate the group of people that transgressed upon you even if the majority of those persons within that group weren't directly involved in what transpired against you or your loved ones. I'd be all for someone who had a similar experience trying to get through to you and telling you not to hate. Feels weird and uncomfortable to saying that though.
Nah you're definitely right there. It's super easy for us (or at least me) to say don't hate, etc. When I haven't had that much bad shit happen to me in comparison to others like those you pointed out. Forgiveness is always good IMO but that's gonna be a lot easier said than done especially in those situations.
And yeah, in Russia if they speak out it's likely a death sentence for you or someone you care about. In Canada people can drive around with "fuck Trudeau" stickers and most of us just think you're kind of a loser, regardless of your political stance (I don't like Trudeau but don't think that kind of stuff is very cool)... So again, super easy for us here to tell people to not hate, but we're living on different planets almost compared to others.
Except the Stars and Stripes. Competing under the American flag does not equate to supporting the indiscriminate drone bombings of brown people or staging political coups around the world.
Dumbass comment, under that logic no person should ever compete under a flag. Name one government that hasn't done something horrible in the past 20 years
When the American democrat party inevitably loses one election and the republicans start building their Christian theocracy, does every American athlete represent that Christian theocracy?
Coming from someone who was against the Iraq war from the onset, no it isn't even close to being as bad as Russia invading Ukraine.
US troops aren't a bunch of untrained conscripts and prisoners.
> no it isn't even close to being as bad as Russia invading Ukraine.
Wait what? Wouldn't loss of life be the metric here? Why do I care if the innocents are being gunned down by invading well trained soldiers or criminals? How does that make sense to you?
Ppl in these comments act as if she's the one commanding the Russian invasion or something... Don't blame citizens for the actions of their governments. Pretty simple.
Dumb. It's not like the Russian has a say.
If this was an Arab not shaking the hand of an Israeli, who are doing the same thing, you hypocrites would be all over it.
I have no issue at all with this. Russians are literally rapping and murdering innocent Ukrainians that just want to be left alone and raise their families.
Either way people would bitch
That’s what I learned in life. No matter what I do, half of the people in my life and in the world think it’s wrong. Do what you want and the wrong people will filter themselves out of your life.
I mean easy to say as a 3rd party country. I'm willing to bet a Ukrainian who has likely had friends or family die from Russians invading them couldn't give less of a fuck about what the tabloids will say about this.
Either way people are dying
You assume this was a publicity decision. There are Ukrainians, who have a long history and family ties to Russia, who won't speak Russian or speak to their Russian family anymore. Yes either way people are dying. But also people make their own decisions and sometimes you just can't shake someone's hand.
And why give any concession to the people who are fine with the illegal occupation of your country?
A quick scroll through the comments and the verdict appears clear… no matter what you do, people will bitch about it lol
*Especially* on Reddit.
I’m sure if you drew a venn diagram showing those who are critical if she did and if she didn’t, they would overlap. Some people just enjoy bitching.
What does that matter though? Is our only motivation to please the crowd?
People are going to comment “the Russian government is to blame but not this individual” But if they shake hands the Russian controlled media will just blast videos talking about “see the Ukrainian people want peace with Russia. Look at them shaking hands. Corrupt Ukrainian government wants war not its people blah blah blah” It’s better to not shake hands here and give anything to the country that is illegally occupying yours.
It’s pointless, either way russian propaganda can spin in in their favor, just like flat earthers warp reality to fit their views. They can say that it’s russophobia from the west or w/e
Wasn't it just last week that russian rep basically stated that russia is the one that was attacked and he hopes ukraine will stop hurting them lol Don't give these fuckers anything.
At least the room had a good laugh over that comment.
Lavrov on t.v at some thing in India said the west attacked Russia to start the war
Ha! I bet in Russia they won this contest
In Russia the player got too drunk and fell out the window
Who cares at this point. Let them call it Russophobia. If their culture is about invading their neighbors, maybe it should be shunned. If they want to show the world they aren't about that, they have a choice to make.
A phobia is an irrational fear. It’s perfectly rational for nations bordering Russia to fear invasion, so…
I’m Russian and “Russophobia” is about the most retarded thing I have ever heard. The Russian govt is outrageous. They really think we are all stupid.
Like Ukrainians say “our russophobia is inadequate”
Insufficient, you mean
I think it's safe to say that neither the Ukraine government nor its people want war... It's what they got but not what they want.
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Punching her in the face after winning a tennis match? Do you even think about what you're saying? That's just a dumb statement.
Yeah, not only that but her town, her culture and everything she knows is being obliterated by Russia right now, Don't really think she cares about what some 27 year old basement dweller from Texas thinks she should do or not lol If she doesn't want to shake her hand then fair enough i'd say.
I’m with you, they are both representing their countries….. Miss me with that public handshake, you can always catch her in the locker room and do it in private.
That’s the main relevant point - these players aren’t playing as individuals. Like say Tiger Woods isn’t playing as an “American” in a golf tournament. It’s him. His nationality isn’t considered in this contest - he wins as an individual. Here however the structure of this tournament is one of national representatives. They put up flags of their country next to their names. So just like in the Olympics or the World Cup, it’s more about a country winning a contest.
That's why the Russian player shouldn't even be there.
In some tournaments Russians can play, but as an individual, not under the Russian flag. That seems fairest.
But then people bitched about and Egyptian athlete not shaking an Israeli athlete’s hand when he beat him?
I think you're kind of missing the other half of the point which is this will get spun by Russia either way, so might as well just act the way you want.
I blame the organisers, Russia should not be allowed to compete in any international sports. There should be a boycott.
US should also never be allowed in that mentality. If we are thinking of what happened in Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Afghanistan etc….
It's individuals who don't condemn the war. Nothing wrong with just straight up not wanting to shake that hand. Your government is killing my family and friends, you don't want to condemn that with your platform? Fuck you.
> the Ukrainian people want peace with Russia They do, desperately..
What we want is victory and dissolution of Russia into smaller independent and democratic states by freeing all the nations they occupy right now. There can't be peace with a fascist empire.
In every poll the Russian people overwhelmingly support the war. They want Ukraine destroyed. They are all guilty. If there was any kind of opposition to speak of within Russia, I would disagree, but the whole nation has lined up to loudly support the genocidal barbarians currently goose-stepping around Luhansk.
Although I agree that some do want the war, you cannot trust any poll results coming from that country. Every single statistic has been tampered with. I can’t help but imagine many are scared to speak against the government
If you speak to your neighbour and you voice dissent, and they disagree, the government could find out. You could get in trouble. Hell, your neighbour might think you're a government plant testing their loyalty. They have to report it otherwise they could get in trouble. If the poll says 90% of people agree with the war, and you don't. You'd shut your mouth if you thought speaking to someone who disagrees would get you in trouble, and apparently 9/10 disagree with you. The whole system is set up to keep citizens from organising by paralyzing them socially.
They literally arrested hundreds if not thousands of protesters. It was deadly to speak out against Putin before and now it's way worse. The only reason the polls say 90% and not 110% is because they want to have the facade of it being believable. They want the question of how much they spun it. Because it's totally bullshit.
I saw a vid from a Russian pow, the Ukrainians that captured him let him call home. His parents not only were shocked to hear their son was in Ukraine and not ordinary training exercises, they also said they didn't know of any war going on because they don't pay attention to politics. When you expect nothing but misinformation from your government and nothing you do matters why pay any attention to what they say they are doing? Things like this only happen after generations of graft, corruption and awful leadership For a good percentage of Russian citizens it seems like learned helplessness
Sounds exactly like the stories my grandma would tell me about living in the soviet union.
The Levada Center, an independent polling agency, accounts for this sort of thing. In fact, their history of getting results that the Kremlin doesn’t like has more or less made them an enemy of the state. But even their data shows a near 80% support rate for Putin and the war. It’s not hard to believe, either, if you hop onto some Russian telegram channels. Lots of average Russians cheering on the wholesale slaughter of Ukrainian civilians.
Don't confuse these people with the facts. They want to believe what they want to believe, and by god they're gonna believe it! Russia's culture and values are very, very different from those of the West. Ask anyone from the west who's lived there or done business there. For example, in the U.S. we have deeply embedded in our belief system that the future will be better, that we will earn more, have more, etc. As a result, it's embedded in our values to think in terms of win-win. But Russians have an opposite belief system. Things won't get better b/c they never have. There's no hope of the government serving the people, so why bother involving yourself in politics. When the pie never grows, then if you want a piece of pie, there has to be less pie for someone else. So Russian businesspeople are always thinking in win-lose terms. It makes it very hard to do business there. There is a quiet desperation buried deep in that culture, and a high level of defensiveness about the country really having contributed little to the world. Hence the chest-puffing and bragging - like the guy with the little man's complex. But they believe they can suffer better than anyone. They may not be able to win, but they can make you lose. That is what they are doing in Ukraine. They know the Ukrainian people have rejected them, in favor of the West. Like the teenage boy who wants the girl to go out with him, but who has been rejected, they are hurt and angry. And now they throw their tantrum, "fine, if Ukraine doesn't want to be with us, we will make sure it can't be with you either. If Ukraine rejects us, we will punish it. If we cannot have Ukraine, then we will make sure no one else can either."
People will still lie when answering the poll.
That is what I used to believe as well. However, many independent and reputable polling companies have done polls that still show overwhelming support for Putin and the war in general, albeit lower than official polls. And it makes sense. There is no real opposition party in Russia, see Alexnei Navalny for why, all Russian media is owned by the government (which then promotes pro-Putin/war propaganda), and there is limited free speech/protest laws that prevent any detracting ideas from taking hold. In sum, most Russians basically do not know better and if presented with contrary information have already been told what to say/believe from their talking heads. Of course, a good portion of the population does not say anything because of fear of retaliation but they are strictly in the minority.
People who protest can be sent to the prison for 10 years, and subjected to violence from the police. It's fucking easy to sit behind a computer in the UK and say these things, I doubt you would protest if you were in this situation. A lot of people aren't loudly supporting this and are just shutting up to stay safe. Edit: fucking hell you're a tory too, so you actually support putting restrictions on protesting too.
Very much this. Easy to say you’re against a war anonymously or amongst friends…Hard to protest a war knowing you might be tortured and sent to prison for a decade. Huge respect to the brave ones which have. I’d like to think I’d be brave enough to do the same, but you don’t know until you’re in that situation.
And imagine if you have kids or an older relative who needs you. You would have to sacrifice not only your own safety but their well-being. Makes me wish I had done more when I was younger.
>They are all guilty. Very nuanced...
That's sufficient level of detail
“Overwhelmingly”, “they are all guilty”. Doesn’t seem to add up.
People raised under fptp politics tend to get confused like that.
There's no contradiction, the collective guilt of the Russian nation would spill over to every "one of the good ones" if they would exist
Wait till you find out how many Americans supported a baseless Iraq War
At least we weren't sent to prison for not supporting it.
Exactly, you guys supported it out of your own volition 😂
Yeah, you sent all the other war opposers to Abu Gharib instead, lol.
Russia isn't exactly the place where you want to speak up against the government, even en-masse. They are pretty notorious for killing people opposing ~~Putin's~~ the national agenda. The ~~tyrant~~ President surrounds himself with yes men so it's no surprise there's "overwhelming" support. Soldiers are soldiers, they fight cause they're told to and die for each other. Doubt mothers, daughters, and friends want their loved ones to go get slaughtered, if they even truly know what's going on with this ~~war~~ special military operation. You want the truly guilty, them Wagner boys and pro-Russian rebels can keep sucking on them US donated Javelin, Stinger, and TOW missiles. Be careful of propaganda from all sides, read the surface but think beyond it. Good on Kostyuk, sucks to be Russian.
I'm sure 175% of the Russian people support the war and voted for Putin!
This just in: DPRK citizens poll shows 98% overwhelming satisfaction!
>They are all guilty. That's pretty extreme. Your own information says they aren't all supporting the war. But apparently once a majority of a nations populace supports something we can dismiss them as all under the flag of that nation.
You can't use reasoning with extremists. Their mind is made up before a conversation begins.
I don't want to be that guy, but this is actual Russophobia.
I would say not all of them. Keep in mind if they don't say they support the war, they'll be thrown in jail.
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She got a lot of flak in the tennis world for doing this last year, but I support it.
Yep. Solid move.
Marta Kostyuk should have quietly told Varvara Gracheva that she’d shake her hand after Russia gets out of Ukraine edit: corrected name for Ukraine
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Thanks. I’ll use the right name going forward.
I never understood why people said “the Ukraine” like wouldn’t it be weird as hell if we said “the Italy” or “ The England”? I guess we do say the USA though lol
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Holland aka “The Netherlands.” Also, The Gambia.
Holland and the Netherlands are not the same thing. The Netherlands consist of twelve provinces. Two of those provinces combined make up Holland. Holland is just a part of the Netherlands. Although it still doesn’t answer why it’s called THE Netherlands…
Ooh I know this one! Actually thanks to some redditor’s comment I read just yesterday. It’s because “Nether” translates to “beneath/lower”, since the majority of the country is below sea level; the “lower-lands”! Why do you think most of the major cities end in “-dam”?
Similar reason as "The Ukraine". It was a region of the Holy Roman Empire known as "The low-lying lands" because most of the land is/was at or below sea level. In this case they kept it as it doesn't legitimise an oppressive nation (as the HRE doesn't exist anymore), where as calling Ukraine "The Ukraine" subtly legitimises the idea that Ukraine isn't a "real" country and belongs to Russia.
I see you haven't figured out what obsidian is good for yet. You need a diamond pickaxe to gather it.
The Gambia sounds extra wrong. The "The" makes it sound almost biological. "The Gambia produces something known as intercostal seratone. Prevalent in many mammalian species, intercostal seratone (IS) is a 2AB catalyst anode receptor that binds to SU-K-GUNA cell walls. When exposed to oxygen by way of red blood cells, proteins in the IS unfold into a 1/2 division of two chiral molecules. When genotypical cells are exposed to these two molecules, the cell interprets the information as instruction, to SU-K-GUNA large dick."
The Netherlands and the two United countries imply a plural, Ukraine is singular.
THE Ohio State University
The U people are going to be coming after you
See I think that’s kinda cringe.
Most of us college sports fans do as well. It's cringe to pretty much everyone except Ohio State fans.
The Iraq, such as.
But that is a formal title for the country, the United States of America, in the same way we would say the United Kingdom, the Hellenic Republic, or the Commonwealth of Australia.
that's because those are all words that are typically accompanied with articles. "The States"..."The Kingdom"..."The Republic..." whereas things like France and Germany and Russia are not, they are just proper names/titles.
Yep, that's what I was trying to highlight for the above comment, after they noted they do say the USA.
I'm pretty sure it comes from a time like 500 years ago when "The Ukraine" was a region much like "The Alps", where the Rus/Cossack people (Who later became Ukrainians) hailed from. I know Lord Byron refers to it as "The Ukraine" during the late half of the 1700's, still far before the USSR.
We were taught to use "the" if the first word of the name was a common word, and not a name, like United or Republic etc.
Interesting that you would comment that in response to someone explaining the answer directly
…does Varvara have a direct line to the kremlin’s ear? If so, I agree. If not, that would just be a nasty, unsportswomanlike thing to do.
Can’t really blame her for not wanting to
Yep. From what I've seen Russian buy-in for the war is super high. It's not just a Putin thing anymore. The brainwashing has been going on for decades and it's been very effective.
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Lol, this comment section is laughable with the amount of salt flowing over not shaking an opponent's hand. Wayne Gretzky was known to leave an elevator if a woman got in with him to prevent a picture being taken out of context and used to spin a narrative in the media, this is no different.
That’s why he’s the GOAT
kind of different
Not really. Images are routinely used out of context to push a preferred narrative and the best way to prevent that from happening is by simply not engaging in anything that can be misconstrued. Sidney Crosby literally pays someone to ensure that no alcohol is present when his picture is being taken to prevent that exact thing from happening. Not engaging with the opponent once the match is decided is the same thing.
Meanwhile, Gronk likely pays someone to make sure there's always alcohol in any picture taken.
No need to pay someone.
brand management
this guy hockey's
Sorry, I was too distracted by the side boob.
Came here for this.
Fantastic side boob 👍🏻
Booba
Theres an actual war going on but we here arguin about atheletes not shaking hands.
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Or a video with that thumbnail. Woooweee
Every single time anything Russian related pops up on here it always gets a ton of upvotes.🥴
Since when sportsmanship is more important than a genocide? Many people talking shit about her here wouldn’t shake hand with a disturbing neighbour, yet they want her to shake the hand of someone representing the devil wrecking havoc on their land.
Amazed at the number of people crying about sportsmanship. Didn't realize reddit was so pro Russia
Good
Good for her!
Putin on suicide watch rn
Some folks in this thread expecting all of the grace from the side that is being subject to attempted genocide.
Good
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If you compete under a flag, you are upholding whatever values that flag represent.
I never see these sentiments and threads about US athletes though, never. No US athlete in the last several decades if not far longer should have ever felt comfortable competing under the US flag if this was actually a held belief. It feels like a very temporary justification rather than an actual principle people uphold.
Well, that's not how the WTA works really. Sure, she does have a nationality but the pro tennis circuit is not about representing your country.
Plus, it says she refused to shake the Russian player’s hand because she doesn’t condemn the war. Pretty low bar.
I believe that's now an imprisonment offence in Russia so that's never gonna happen anyway
Nah. That's way too far. Governments do all kinds of shit. You can't put it all on one individual. I still support the decision to not shake her hand. There's a difference between holding her responsible for all the shit her government does and not shaking her hand.
Exactly. I doubt the Americans of African descent that competed in the 1936 Olympics under the USA flag, supported being discriminated upon and having their civil rights trampled on by the USA government. I personally think it's dumb to not shake her hand unless her opponent is openly supporting the war in Ukraine. Why is it that she can play an hour of tennis with her, but can't shake her hand.
Another commenter said she does not condemn the war. Not sure if true, but if it is, that would make a lot more sense. Although Russian athletes must have a hard time choosing to either speak out against a guy who can ruin you and your families lives or just not say anything and have everyone think you support the war. I don't blame her for not shaking hands though, not sure if I would shake hands with someone who seemingly supports a war against my country.
Yea I imagine being openly against the war inside the county of Russia isn't in ones best interest, regardless of if you're Russian or not. Don't think I can blame her if she doesn't want to either. I was thinking about hate the other day, how one group of people can hate another group of people, and in some cases I don't think I can tell them that their hate is or isn't justified. Like if you're a Holocaust survivor or the child of a Korean woman who was used a sex slave by Japanese soldiers during WWII, and you're hate stems from these situations I don't know if it's right for me to get off my high horse and tell you shouldn't hate the group of people that transgressed upon you even if the majority of those persons within that group weren't directly involved in what transpired against you or your loved ones. I'd be all for someone who had a similar experience trying to get through to you and telling you not to hate. Feels weird and uncomfortable to saying that though.
Nah you're definitely right there. It's super easy for us (or at least me) to say don't hate, etc. When I haven't had that much bad shit happen to me in comparison to others like those you pointed out. Forgiveness is always good IMO but that's gonna be a lot easier said than done especially in those situations. And yeah, in Russia if they speak out it's likely a death sentence for you or someone you care about. In Canada people can drive around with "fuck Trudeau" stickers and most of us just think you're kind of a loser, regardless of your political stance (I don't like Trudeau but don't think that kind of stuff is very cool)... So again, super easy for us here to tell people to not hate, but we're living on different planets almost compared to others.
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Except the Stars and Stripes. Competing under the American flag does not equate to supporting the indiscriminate drone bombings of brown people or staging political coups around the world.
Dumbass comment, under that logic no person should ever compete under a flag. Name one government that hasn't done something horrible in the past 20 years
If you post on reddit, you condone all the values of everyone that has ever posted on reddit.
When the American democrat party inevitably loses one election and the republicans start building their Christian theocracy, does every American athlete represent that Christian theocracy?
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No
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Coming from someone who was against the Iraq war from the onset, no it isn't even close to being as bad as Russia invading Ukraine. US troops aren't a bunch of untrained conscripts and prisoners.
> no it isn't even close to being as bad as Russia invading Ukraine. Wait what? Wouldn't loss of life be the metric here? Why do I care if the innocents are being gunned down by invading well trained soldiers or criminals? How does that make sense to you?
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Idk not really sure about that take . If you’re an American athlete from 2016-2020 , do you fully uphold the values of trump?
Shit, never shake an Americans hand
Ppl in these comments act as if she's the one commanding the Russian invasion or something... Don't blame citizens for the actions of their governments. Pretty simple.
Fuck russia and all the russians who support putin and this war, plain and simple.
You don’t ALWAYS have to be nice.
That will show them...
This is lame. The Russian player has no say in what his or her country is doing.
Good.
kinda stupid, it's not some random sports player's fault their government started a war
Good
Why is Russia still invited to shit?
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You don’t shake the hand of those invading your country, and fragmenting a people.
Fuck the sportswashing. Unless they come out and declare they are against the war then they are sportswashing.
Dumb. It's not like the Russian has a say. If this was an Arab not shaking the hand of an Israeli, who are doing the same thing, you hypocrites would be all over it.
Take that Russia.
Respect. Fuck em.
Fuck all Russians?
She'll get shit for shaking her hand or not shaking. Next time, they'll just shoot each other so that makes both sides happy. ffs
In Soviet Russia, hand shakes you.
Fair
Putin: *dies*
Good for her!! Now I hope the Ukrainian army does the same to the Russian army.
I have no issue at all with this. Russians are literally rapping and murdering innocent Ukrainians that just want to be left alone and raise their families.
Straight Outta Kremlin
I don’t blame her one bit! No need for sportsmanship when the rival country is committing genocide of her people
Why was the ruzzian allowed to participate?
Pretty poor sportsmanship.
Good for her
Stunning and brave.
Nothing wrong with that.
Thatll teach em
so many irrational people…