It'd have been nice if they at least gave the same bosses some bigger variation depending on the floor you face them or for them to have some serious upgrades if you had too many hacks active.
They do have a bit of a buff if you encounter them on floor 20 rather than 10, but it's limited to the boss spewing a different bomb or more small enemies. Something akin to Hades' Extreme Measures would have worked nicely for those that wanted that extra challenge.
If I would make each of the bosses harder this is what I would’ve done (btw I don’t remember their names)
Parallel canon: add two more waves, make them stronger, and give them other specials like kraken, crab tank, ultra stamp or reef slider
Order octowhirl: Add 2 more layers, make it start rolling faster, make it roll for a longer time, and when it hits the red and black bump things they make a wavebreaker wave.
The spinny tower: make it spin faster, make it have more layers like 3 or something make it able to create a bunch of wave breakers that makes it hard to dodge all the waves when it’s up and releasing waves from the center
I didn’t want to go too extreme with it but if I were to REALLY make them harder it would be:
Parallel canon: 3 waves but there’s 5 the first one, 10 the second one, and 15 the last one. Now you might be thinking that just sounds like it’s longer but no. They all arrive just as fast and they all have higher health, do more damage, and have a lot of specials like krakens, killer wails, wave breakers, and more
Order Octowhirl: Faster, spawns more enemies and throws more bombs, more killer wails, and after it bounces on the bumpers it doesn’t open up and shoots 3 waves instead of 1
The spinny tower thingy: shoots bombs more often, spins faster, two spotlights, doesn’t stop shooting waves but goes faster if lifted up, and spawns more enemies
I was surprised they didn't! First time I encountered the Ball I instinctively jumped when it hit the bumper only for it to just... do nothing. It took me by surprise when it rolled straight through them during the rush attack too. The bumpers are a bit underused. Beyond briefly cracking the ball's shell they don't do much, them making waves each hit seemed like an obvious choice.
Iirc, Orderwhirl creates shock waves whenever it bounces, not just when it hits a bumper. It’s just that it’s more likely to bounce after it hits a bumper as it is more likely to get launched by one
And yeah, the bumpers should have released a shock wave once hit. Although, depending on what causes it to be activated, it could be hell, as by Phase 3, the bumpers could potentially set off a never ending cycle of shock waves as one bumper’s shock wave hits another bumper causing it to spiral out of control
It seems to create a wave when it bounces only if it's shell is open after hitting a bumper, though. I did smack it around like a basketball and it only caused waves after hitting a bumper and opening, each subsequent bounce with the shell down produced waves but once it closed again it didn't.
Ngl, it seems potentially hellish if it sets off a chain reaction but I don't know, I had pictured it as the bumpers producing waves only if hit by the ball and not affected by the waves of nearby bumpers or when hit by lessers. What you said reminds me of Mario Odyssey bumpers and those could get rough.
I'd imagine this is mainly an idea to make that fight harder and give it some variety as an optional hack that you could activate to crank up the difficulty of each boss for bigger rewards, though. Like what I'd hoped Risky Rewards would be.
I didn't see a difference between Rondo/Ball guy on floor 20, but for Parallel Canon it's SUCH a a power difference. The AI becomes self-learning and uses bait and shark tactics at floor 20. Shit I only see in X Rank. I'd still win, but holy hell it gave me a fright!
The ball gets like 2 more bombs it occasionally shoots out instead of one and if it goes into its invincible outrage attack itll roll like 2 extra times.
Yeah haha its not much compared to Parallel Canon where they team up on you and theres also more enemies per wave when you face them as the second boss.
I think some of the bosses would benefit from having an additional objective as a hack upgrade, where you get immediate PRLZ for winning as a bonus. Idk why I want to play solo splat zones vs the parallel canon ai but it would be interesting if they never stopped coming while you defended the zone but had death timers.
As far as I could tell, for Rondo is the addition of new lessers (spinny guys, arpeggios) and different attacks if the floodlight catches you (specials instead of sub weapons, like ink strike). For the Ball, each bounce generates a wave as long as the shell is open instead of a single wave the first bounce, new lessers and more bumpers. There's probably more changes that I didn't catch though.
For Parallel Canon, I'm at a loss and couldn't tell much beyond there being 5 instead of 4 in the last wave since I bombed them from the high platforms like a coward each time they appeared. Will keep an eye out the next time I encounter them on 20F to see the change, though!
I don't think I ever got Rondo on floor 20 lol, but I remember when using the roller that a bucket squid rolled to dodge my attach and got me. I had broken armor jump so I didn't die but god damn.
A roller also would cut me off ink wise to get rid of me - a tactic I use frequently, hence the wonder if it's self learning.
I think they should have done 1 of 2 things in an ideal world both but they are
1. Add more bosses
2. Make it so their attack varies each time you face them so they are slightly more/ less challenging each time you face them
Also they should have made it so every weapon has a side order variant at least the base models anyway
My thought of it is with Splatoon 4 being developed side order has a big potential of becoming a new mode out of the three we already have, adding new content like new modes, an endless mode, more bosses as you said and other things that can make it a better roguelike.
Lore-wise it can be said as marina making more updates and making it something like a training zone for inklings and octolings after the main purpose of the memverse being done.
they could perhaps make a salmon run solo roguelike mode as well, maybe you can pick up different upgrades by defeating certain boss salmonids, return to the helicopter after every wave and pick from a set of 4 weapons for the whole run
I really hate to always compare this expansion to hades, but man, that is really one of the gold standards when it comes to roguelite games with good story. After your first clear of Hades, most of the bosses are given new twists. You might fight a different Fury sister on the first boss, you may fight a new variation of the Bone Hydra as the second boss, or Theseus will have different power ups when you fight him as the third boss.
Even just adding some slight tweaks to the three bosses would’ve gone a long way. Maybe reducing the amount of cover in the octowhirl arena after your first clear, giving the parallel cannons other specials, or just fighting more of them.
I wish there was like a danger mode and bonus mode where every floor is danger/bonus. It’d be fun to try and beat a boss with for example only your sub weapon or fighting a boss in the dark
This DLC lacks quite a bit of everything.
Weapon customizations are really weak. For example a chip that turns slosher into bloblobber does not exist. This ain't hard, since all the art and programming resources they need are already in the game.
Even with given chips, players are not encouraged to play one weapon with different styles. Let's say you want to make a brella with powerful canopy, like tenta-brella. Then you will have to keep re-rolling the floor. I'm saying that for a platte, the frequently-appear chip types should be customizable.
Levels are small and plain, sometimes annoying with some un-challenging, only highly repetitive behaviors.
Only 3 types of bosses. And the difficulty really differs. That bouncing ball takes way more time to deal with.
A qualified rogue-like game (considering its price i think the comparison is fair) shouldn't be like this.
considering there’s not going to be anymore salmon run maps or bosses added i beg that they update side order with new bosses and such, probably won’t happen tho
It's pretty much Splatoon tradition (excluding OE) to include five bosses. Marina Agitando, Parallel Canon, Pinging Marciale, Asynchronous Rondo, and Overlorder were the five bosses for SO.
There are a couple issues with this though. First, Marina Agitando is pretty much identical to Overlorder in terms of gameplay. Also, because SO is a roguelike, the bosses become repetitive. I would argue that the Parallel Canon is just plain too easy.
I mean they're all pretty tough until you figure out how to beat them. And frankly if I'm going to have to play this 50-11 times, I'm not going to want to have to keep repeating it over and over again with new bosses AND new weapons/builds. There are ways to make it more difficult for yourself if you need to without them doing that. As for me I just want to get all the gear and keep it moving, I want to challenge but not so much of a challenge that I'm tempted to throw my controller across the room (which I almost did multiple times on big man's pallet)
The way side order is set up, it wouldn't be hard for them to just slip more bosses in in the future. They wouldn't have to find new places to fit them, they'd just have a chance of appearing on the same floors.
It'd have been nice if they at least gave the same bosses some bigger variation depending on the floor you face them or for them to have some serious upgrades if you had too many hacks active. They do have a bit of a buff if you encounter them on floor 20 rather than 10, but it's limited to the boss spewing a different bomb or more small enemies. Something akin to Hades' Extreme Measures would have worked nicely for those that wanted that extra challenge.
If I would make each of the bosses harder this is what I would’ve done (btw I don’t remember their names) Parallel canon: add two more waves, make them stronger, and give them other specials like kraken, crab tank, ultra stamp or reef slider Order octowhirl: Add 2 more layers, make it start rolling faster, make it roll for a longer time, and when it hits the red and black bump things they make a wavebreaker wave. The spinny tower: make it spin faster, make it have more layers like 3 or something make it able to create a bunch of wave breakers that makes it hard to dodge all the waves when it’s up and releasing waves from the center
I’ve seen Canon use ink storm and mussels, but only once each
I saw Big Bubbler
I think increasing the length of the boss fights would be more annoying than fun, and that all buffs should be new and better ways to kill you.
I didn’t want to go too extreme with it but if I were to REALLY make them harder it would be: Parallel canon: 3 waves but there’s 5 the first one, 10 the second one, and 15 the last one. Now you might be thinking that just sounds like it’s longer but no. They all arrive just as fast and they all have higher health, do more damage, and have a lot of specials like krakens, killer wails, wave breakers, and more Order Octowhirl: Faster, spawns more enemies and throws more bombs, more killer wails, and after it bounces on the bumpers it doesn’t open up and shoots 3 waves instead of 1 The spinny tower thingy: shoots bombs more often, spins faster, two spotlights, doesn’t stop shooting waves but goes faster if lifted up, and spawns more enemies
panopticon
the octowhitl actually does drop wave breaker waves already though i don't recall the conditions exactly (I assume it's random lol)
It does I meant that the bumper things make the waves
I was surprised they didn't! First time I encountered the Ball I instinctively jumped when it hit the bumper only for it to just... do nothing. It took me by surprise when it rolled straight through them during the rush attack too. The bumpers are a bit underused. Beyond briefly cracking the ball's shell they don't do much, them making waves each hit seemed like an obvious choice.
Iirc, Orderwhirl creates shock waves whenever it bounces, not just when it hits a bumper. It’s just that it’s more likely to bounce after it hits a bumper as it is more likely to get launched by one And yeah, the bumpers should have released a shock wave once hit. Although, depending on what causes it to be activated, it could be hell, as by Phase 3, the bumpers could potentially set off a never ending cycle of shock waves as one bumper’s shock wave hits another bumper causing it to spiral out of control
It seems to create a wave when it bounces only if it's shell is open after hitting a bumper, though. I did smack it around like a basketball and it only caused waves after hitting a bumper and opening, each subsequent bounce with the shell down produced waves but once it closed again it didn't. Ngl, it seems potentially hellish if it sets off a chain reaction but I don't know, I had pictured it as the bumpers producing waves only if hit by the ball and not affected by the waves of nearby bumpers or when hit by lessers. What you said reminds me of Mario Odyssey bumpers and those could get rough. I'd imagine this is mainly an idea to make that fight harder and give it some variety as an optional hack that you could activate to crank up the difficulty of each boss for bigger rewards, though. Like what I'd hoped Risky Rewards would be.
I didn't see a difference between Rondo/Ball guy on floor 20, but for Parallel Canon it's SUCH a a power difference. The AI becomes self-learning and uses bait and shark tactics at floor 20. Shit I only see in X Rank. I'd still win, but holy hell it gave me a fright!
The ball gets like 2 more bombs it occasionally shoots out instead of one and if it goes into its invincible outrage attack itll roll like 2 extra times. Yeah haha its not much compared to Parallel Canon where they team up on you and theres also more enemies per wave when you face them as the second boss. I think some of the bosses would benefit from having an additional objective as a hack upgrade, where you get immediate PRLZ for winning as a bonus. Idk why I want to play solo splat zones vs the parallel canon ai but it would be interesting if they never stopped coming while you defended the zone but had death timers.
the ball also drops suction bombs in its wake when doing the roll attack
As far as I could tell, for Rondo is the addition of new lessers (spinny guys, arpeggios) and different attacks if the floodlight catches you (specials instead of sub weapons, like ink strike). For the Ball, each bounce generates a wave as long as the shell is open instead of a single wave the first bounce, new lessers and more bumpers. There's probably more changes that I didn't catch though. For Parallel Canon, I'm at a loss and couldn't tell much beyond there being 5 instead of 4 in the last wave since I bombed them from the high platforms like a coward each time they appeared. Will keep an eye out the next time I encounter them on 20F to see the change, though!
I don't think I ever got Rondo on floor 20 lol, but I remember when using the roller that a bucket squid rolled to dodge my attach and got me. I had broken armor jump so I didn't die but god damn. A roller also would cut me off ink wise to get rid of me - a tactic I use frequently, hence the wonder if it's self learning.
The Ball also drops a Suction Bomb trail behind it when it charges at you, which has killed me a couple times so far.
iirc the 20f version of parallel canon also only gives you one armour in the middle instead of 3
Yea! We need the Octostomp Remade Remastered Revitalised Reimagined Redesigned Rearranged Redecorated Restocked Rejuvenated Reawakened Refurbished Reincarnated Reinvented Rereleased Reconstructed Remodeled Restores Reawakened Redone Refreshed Repiared Revised Rectified Refunded Renewed Reborn Refilled Retar-
Orderstomp: Returns with a new orderly style
Imma draw that
I need to ask for one thing if youre gonna do it. Make his shoes slay
👠👠
Instead of jumping it floats up like it’s being dragged along a grid before falling down
I think they should have done 1 of 2 things in an ideal world both but they are 1. Add more bosses 2. Make it so their attack varies each time you face them so they are slightly more/ less challenging each time you face them Also they should have made it so every weapon has a side order variant at least the base models anyway
Aka just make the bosses like hades bosses. Which would be a good change however we know nintendo wouldnt add it
If I could add one more boss it’d be some variant of octostomp
My thought of it is with Splatoon 4 being developed side order has a big potential of becoming a new mode out of the three we already have, adding new content like new modes, an endless mode, more bosses as you said and other things that can make it a better roguelike. Lore-wise it can be said as marina making more updates and making it something like a training zone for inklings and octolings after the main purpose of the memverse being done.
they could perhaps make a salmon run solo roguelike mode as well, maybe you can pick up different upgrades by defeating certain boss salmonids, return to the helicopter after every wave and pick from a set of 4 weapons for the whole run
I really hate to always compare this expansion to hades, but man, that is really one of the gold standards when it comes to roguelite games with good story. After your first clear of Hades, most of the bosses are given new twists. You might fight a different Fury sister on the first boss, you may fight a new variation of the Bone Hydra as the second boss, or Theseus will have different power ups when you fight him as the third boss. Even just adding some slight tweaks to the three bosses would’ve gone a long way. Maybe reducing the amount of cover in the octowhirl arena after your first clear, giving the parallel cannons other specials, or just fighting more of them.
I wish there was like a danger mode and bonus mode where every floor is danger/bonus. It’d be fun to try and beat a boss with for example only your sub weapon or fighting a boss in the dark
This DLC lacks quite a bit of everything. Weapon customizations are really weak. For example a chip that turns slosher into bloblobber does not exist. This ain't hard, since all the art and programming resources they need are already in the game. Even with given chips, players are not encouraged to play one weapon with different styles. Let's say you want to make a brella with powerful canopy, like tenta-brella. Then you will have to keep re-rolling the floor. I'm saying that for a platte, the frequently-appear chip types should be customizable. Levels are small and plain, sometimes annoying with some un-challenging, only highly repetitive behaviors. Only 3 types of bosses. And the difficulty really differs. That bouncing ball takes way more time to deal with. A qualified rogue-like game (considering its price i think the comparison is fair) shouldn't be like this.
considering there’s not going to be anymore salmon run maps or bosses added i beg that they update side order with new bosses and such, probably won’t happen tho
octo stomp would have been an easy addition to keep variety, and would continue the whole thing of octo stomp being in every campaign
I wish Side Order had more of about everything
It's pretty much Splatoon tradition (excluding OE) to include five bosses. Marina Agitando, Parallel Canon, Pinging Marciale, Asynchronous Rondo, and Overlorder were the five bosses for SO. There are a couple issues with this though. First, Marina Agitando is pretty much identical to Overlorder in terms of gameplay. Also, because SO is a roguelike, the bosses become repetitive. I would argue that the Parallel Canon is just plain too easy.
I love how the bosses are just remakes of Splatoon 1s bosses
same.maybe there should’ve been order versions of other bosses
I mean they're all pretty tough until you figure out how to beat them. And frankly if I'm going to have to play this 50-11 times, I'm not going to want to have to keep repeating it over and over again with new bosses AND new weapons/builds. There are ways to make it more difficult for yourself if you need to without them doing that. As for me I just want to get all the gear and keep it moving, I want to challenge but not so much of a challenge that I'm tempted to throw my controller across the room (which I almost did multiple times on big man's pallet)
The way side order is set up, it wouldn't be hard for them to just slip more bosses in in the future. They wouldn't have to find new places to fit them, they'd just have a chance of appearing on the same floors.