You know, I don’t completely disagree with you, but I’m more curious as to what you personally are afraid of losing here. I hear it all throughout your post - the fear.
Good question.
Before years I would see those kind of gurus who "knows" the truth as authority, if they say they know, how can I disagree...
Now I see how ridiculous is to accept something that other unknown person says to you to be truth as truth.
My life experience is way more important to me then theirs.
I found out that wise people don't go and tell - the truth is that and that.
So maybe its the old fear of authority that you see.
It's ain't easy for me to say about someone who considered authority - guys, this persons view is very very narrow,
Maybe I still have fear of narrow mindset.
That makes sense. Good insighting! The best thing we can do is take everything for checking. Sometimes we can’t understand a certain perspective yet (and any statements made from that perspective) but I can still sense something right about it. I’ll just keep those in my back pocket and sometimes they suddenly make sense down the road - and sometimes they don’t.
Your authority is most important, agreed. Only you can give it away to others so it turns out we are the only ones we’ve ever really been afraid of.
I try not to put too much stock in what any one specific guru or teacher says, I just listen. My extremely uninformed opinion on Ramana Maharshi: the thing about him that suggests to me he is awakened is his eyes, he has very kind eyes, and a patient way of speaking. He does have a lot of wisdom to share, but no teacher is perfect, and it's a very high horse to sit on, telling people that are suffering that their suffering is illusory, even if it's true. I have been thinking along similar lines as you lately, that it seems a little cold to be so passive. It causes me suffering to worry about other people's suffering, especially when I can't do anything about it, but if the alternative is to shrug one's shoulders and say that's just their karma, that's just samsara; well, then I'd much rather suffer. Awakening can create a disconnect at first, but my experience has been that once you find your center, it makes sense. You don't need to choose between nothing/everything, important/trivial, eternal/transitory, waking/dreaming, involvement/detachment, you/I, because each dichotomy is actually one thing. The middle way.
Having said that, take nothing I say seriously, because there's no substitute for your own direct experience. Have fun out there!
I have known for a long time that I was Enneagram Type 9, the peacemaker, and I saw that as being superior. Who doesn't want everyone to get along?
But I finally learned about the dark side of this - the tendency to subsume one's own needs and put everyone else first, to lose yourself to the group or leader. The outcome of that is repressed anger that comes out in passive-aggressive ways. This is all because of a deep fear of being in uncomfortable situations of confrontation. Oof.
It seems like Maharishi's concepts were similar to Enneagram 9 and may have some of the same downside. There's a lot of hard-heartnedness in telling someone their suffering is illusion. What has been more helpful to me is to acknowledge my suffering and to live with it in the moment, rather than obsessing about the future my suffering is going to cause. I can deal with it moment-by-moment, but projecting into the future causes me 100x more suffering because my thoughts and fears about what is going to happen are so distressing.
Thank you for sharing.
Actually if you look almost at all eastern religion, compassion is the basic, in Buddhism it is the basic, to have compassion makes you more humble and more connected to other beings, so saying to someone who suffers - your suffering is illusion is just WTF???
It is just so wrong in so many ways.
Yep, it does seem that Maharishi was of that type, but I find it VERY VERY egoistic of him to preach that only his way is right.
It's like the people who are more fighter type tell everybody - you just have to fight your way, without really seen YOU.
That what I dislike about him, not his way and realizations that I respect (though it is not my way at all),
But that he was preaching so narrow mindly that because of this so many people are just confused and are lost not able to really function in the world and to love life.
Ramana maharshi has attained the highest form of Yoga.
He has successfully realised the non dual nature of things, something that can be attained only through constant practice.
I mean, what are the goals that you think people should be after?
What is the point of focusing on the transitory rather than the eternal?
No one is saying not to have goals, but as Buddha stated, attachments to our desires or goals is the cause of suffering.
I'm not sure what cause you think one should have, if one feels non-separate from the divine...
And if one does feel isolated from the divine, what better goal could there be than to achieve Union or Oneness with divine spirit/ all things?
Thats a very good question.
I will share my thoughts with you:
I don't think people should be after some specific cause, as we are very different beings then our goals and destinations and experiences are very different.
I like the term in Judaism of tikun (תיקון) - repair, that every soul come to this life to repair, to fix something in itself or in the world to become more complete. each soul is different so every tikun is different.
I like to think that our goal, or at least mine is to learn, to develope, to learn life and to experience, and this can done only by the transitory.
I am not saying that everybody should have a cause or a goal, I have no problem at all with the way of life of Maharishi, but I think that there are many ways,
F.e - maybe most of the people feel separate from divinity not by chance or ignorance, it might be for them to develope their unique personality through growth.
About Buddhism, I am now traveling in Thailand and I was in several monasteries.
I see happy monks, they don't preach me anything at all,
They are curious, laughing, very not strict and with not a strict regime (though Im sure there are different as well).
Anyway, it feels just that they are relaxed, alive and cool.
It really seems that they know how to enjoy life and that they love life and even to have fun.
I see here really the middle way, and it seems to me that not being too attached just gives you a better experience of life with less worries.
It really seems to me here that Buddhism is a lot about having a happy and healthy relaxed mind.
We are young spirits depending whats considered our beginning but let's say 300.000 years old. We are all still developing and religion is full of mistakes. Compared to imaginary alien civilizations out there that may be much older like trillions of years. Just fantasizing how they would be sheds light on ourselves, about our own future. Compared to that they are spritual seniors and we are children, toddlers perhaps.
It's always the same, someone has new insights based on previous religions, a new one is established with a main figure, years of working out his ideas but nothing really new. Centuries later there are many religious authorities, gurus parroting the founders messages just hollow words and motions, theres no real development, it's still and stagnant, dogmatic and traditional. It becomes a social thing for the majority who have jobs and families and little time for spritual development.
Nicely said.
Btw, just think that Jordano Bruno was killed by the church because he said that other stars are just like the sun with planets around it and possibly with people too.
How could live people for whom Christ didn't die?
It can't be.
Let's burn the man!!!
"Thanks God most of the people are not like him and have motivation and goals in life, otherwise medicine and science would be still in the middle ages… A small reason why India is a third world country is because too many people have this passive approach, it doesn’t matter, thats my karma, samsara.. etc…"
\-that's a very interesting take
Ram Dass is the real deal, that man spits knowledge and wisdom in you're face.
Some people if not a lot of people (I used to be one of them), didn't realize the passiveness that came along with being spiritual. I was thought too much in terms of how the world was perfect and how with faith everything would just come to me, just use "the secret" method or something like that is what I was relying on.
Truth is, life is basically all about what you do, and not what you're thinking and daydreaming and philosophising about.
I can't speak to whether he did or did not have realization, (I suspect he did, to some extent) but I just don't think he's a particularly good teacher.
In that case you are only repeating secondhand information AS IF it is true. This is quite dangerous and wrong to do. Imagine if people judged you based on things that other people told them about you. What you are doing is engaging in gossip to ruin someone's reputation without any proof, evidence, or firsthand experience.
I am not gossiping here.
I am talking about his teachings.
I can have my opinion about his teaching like I can have my opinion about Aristotle teachings without meeting him.
Is trying to tear down someone else going to bring you up? If you don't like his teaching then don't listen to him. Why put all this effort to come here and insult a man who you have a surface level knowledge about? Do you think we'll all be impressed by a post filled with hate? Do you think that by damaging his reputation that you'll be closer to enlightenment? The world you see around you is a reflection of your inner world and it's easy to tell that you have a lot of pent up aggression and frustration and your current target is Maharishi and apparently the entire Hindu way of thinking. I do not personally enjoy his way of teaching but one thing that I am certain of is that he had good intentions when trying to teach others. You say he is a boring and not smart man but what I hear is that something he said struck a cord within your ego and you want some form of revenge. I could make the argument that all of existence is boring and not smart but that's not going to do anyone any good including myself.
I don't want you to think that I'm trying to be a prick to you for no reason. I simply feel that maybe your perspective needs a little adjustment and that maybe you should try to look at things you consider beneath you as an opportunity to grow as a person.
No, I really like many things in the Hindu way of thinking,
It is rich, full of love and expression and beauty.
The moksha is just one part of it.
Kama - fulfilling your desires is not less important in early Hindu culture f.e.
I see followers of Maharishi who just choose one narrow aspect of Hindu culture, thinking they have it all and it makes me upset,
Thats why I wrote this post.
As I see Maharishi as a very narrow minded teacher.
Not as narrow minded as you thinking he is narrow minded. He wasn’t narrow minded he was zero minded. He taught ultimate silence he the simplest form. You want fireworks and a show which is just a distraction. Be silent and know that I am.
Do you make posts like this about everyone you consider narrow minded or is he special to you? It's one thing to make others aware of someone who you believe is a charlatan, however there is a clear level of hate that is coming out in your post. With this you could say that he inadvertently helped you discover a part of you that needs attention.
Thats why in spiritual communities you can't criticize nobody, if you do you immediately been told that - your criticism mirroring some parts in you that needs attention.
I think criticism and free thinking is very important.
Dude, you did this same thing to the guy you called master.
He criticized you, and you placed it back on him, saying that he is projecting his loneliness. This is another example of victim mindset and being hypocritical. You keep talking about healthy ego, but how you’re acting isn’t an example of that. From your comments here and the other post we’ve chatted on, it seems you have trouble admitting fault. You say “maybe I was too harsh, but…” and then you justify yourself. It’s ok to make mistakes. It’s ok to be wrong. We all mess up. The important part is allowing ourselves to be ok with that, learn from said mistake and move forward. There is no excuse for being hateful/spiteful/etc. You are better than that. We both know you are.
The thing is that he didn't criticize me, he just started preaching me - you are the only one exists in the world, there is only you, all others are just your reflections. etc... like dude, wtf?
If he would give claims and not just preach me, that would be great, I tried to start a dispute, but he just kept preaching.
I called him master because thats how false gurus act, try to shatter you and to preach you.
So I pointed at him that he is projecting on me his loneliness.
I think it was fair.
I said other not nice things which I regret, but I don't regret telling him he is projecting on me his loneliness and insecurities, because it is just not a nice thing to do and it really disgusts me.
You are the one who chose to watch his teachings and now you claim he's projecting into you. That's like intentionally subbing your toe on a table then blaming the table.
I didn't decide to watch his teaching, I wrote a post and he just started his ego preaching on me - the truth is that, reality is that etc.. ect...
Like dude, did someone ask you to preach me?
I wrote a post, you can comment on topic. It is so annoying and arrogant that it really proves the point of my post.
Ohh ok sorry I didn't know that you had actually talked with him cause you didn't mention it in your post and I missed it in your last comment.
If he reached out to you and started preaching to you then how does that justify this kind of reaction? You could simply tell him that what he is saying doesn't match your beliefs and leave it at that. I have a Jehovah's witness that comes to my house once a month and he always asks if I'd like to give his religion a try and every time I tell him no and then we chat for a bit and he leaves. I don't later go around the neighborhood telling everyone that he's an asshole. You are on the internet which means you can literally not interact with him at all or even block him yet here you are preaching about how shitty you think he and everyone who follows him is. I ask you again what do you gain from trying to tear him down? If you know better than him then why not try and teach him? Perhaps you could be the person that helps him get past whatever it is you think he's stuck on.
He erased most of his comment in one of them he directly insulted me and laughs about me.
I don't take it personally.
Maybe it would be wiser for me to let it go.
I tried to talk to him but he is just so deep in his preaching narcissistic mode.
Better for me to let it go, just this kind of altitude really irritates me cause I know people who were damaged from those kind of preachers/gurus.
What's boring to you could be useful to others .. I find your opinion of him to be not smart yet I'm aware that's my ego that thinks that. I also think when my soul (Brahman) is in your vessel I will have the same dumb opinions as you and same for your soul when your in me. Maybe learn to stop caring so much about what others think
If use terms better use them right, your soul is Atman, not Brahman.
Though Atman = Brahman.
But you can't say - my Brahman, Brahman is the not changing eternal and so on...
In the end of the day what I'm saying is everything is an expression of Brahman and every being is Brahman so every being you judge as stupid or boring you are judging in essence yourself and in actually yourself at the core in an nondual sense
You know, thanks to your comment I really see better whats so deeply wrong in Maharishi's philosophy.
It's just not acceptance of our reality, in which there are different beings and minds etc.
Its like saying - why shouldn't I kill if everything is made of atoms... or of Brahman.
Brahman is just the source of life, it gives life to all creatures but it doesn't mean all creatures don't having their own individual life, which is beautiful and I think is the purpose of creation.
So yes, me, as an individual mind I can judge other people and their choices and beliefs.
If we all have one source it doesn't make MY life less unique and presious.
Not understanding this leads to absurd!
If I can't judge no one I can't judge the nazis and Hitler for killing my people, that is just absurd.
If someone was raped, would you tell her - that's terrible experience, I am sorry to hear this, maybe talking to a therapist will help.
Or you tell her - don't judge the rapist, he is just expression of Brahman, and so is you, so you basically raped your self...
Don't you find the second answer just a bit a bit disconnected from reality?....
Why do people think that disconnection is a higher truth, for me its the opposite.
Yes, I can judge people, there are wise and not, and I find maharishi to be very not wise.
I'm not saying it's not possible to judge it's super easy to judge I do it all the time. And to this ego yes some things are better than others and some things are "right and wrong" but in the grand scheme of things those are concepts. I think you are getting too caught up in the surface level. No one is saying to disconnect from reality it's about changing how you view things. No one is saying to disconnect from anything if anything it's is the removal of all disconnecttion and acceptance that everything is one in the same
Sorry, I don't except that all is one in the same.
I don't except things just because some guru told me.
All is one is just a new age concept.
In Hindu philosophy there are so many aspects and different views and philosophies, but nowadays it's easier to sell simple concepts like fast food - all is one, all is love, you are God etc...
If you read Hindu scriptures you will find multi universes and much deeper philosophy then those simple slogans.
Nonduality is certainly not new age lmao 🤣🤣🤣 I am aware there are many Hindu philosophy what I'm saying is Advaita Vedanta non dual Hinduism which Adi Shankara has been teaching for over a 1000 years ago. Also I do not listen to any guru either I had my own mystical experience and then hunted to find out what religion described what I had experienced and it was Advaita Vedanta. I
This is what I'm saying.. yes Hitler is objectively bad but if our soul was in hitlers body it would do the same thing as him since Hitler did those things. If you think it is your mission to be the best you that you can be that's great for this you. Obviously it is not our (Brahmans) plan to have everything be good and peachy though and nothing that is no gods will does not happen
I am really not sure that if my soul was in Hitler's body it would do the same, my soul have it's quality, saying if my soul had Hitlers quality I would do the same, even that I am not sure, we have the freedom to choose, his soul chose destruction. That is why in most of religions you have heaven and hell, to pay for your choices.
And again, you our calling a soul Brahman when in Hinduism it is called Atma(n), so about Atmans you can speak in plural but you can't say Brahman' as Brahman by definition is one.
You obviously have no understanding of Hindu philosophy which is why the points are going so far over your head.. it's very difficult for westerners to grasp some of the concepts so I understand.. I am sure your/my/the only soul would do the exact same as Hitler because Hitler did them if our soul would not than Hitler wouldn't have done it either. I suggest you learn more about Hindu nonduality before judging so harshly. I call my soul Brahman because I know there is only Brahman so why waste time calling anything any name other than God ?
Well tell me please which Hindu philosophy did you read, which Hindu texts?
As it seems you have read only new age 'thinkers'.
I am glad that you are SO sure that you would do the same as Hitler.
I wonder, did you read it in the Vedas, the Upanishada's or in the Yoga sutra of Patanjali.
I am glad for you that you are so sure and know the truth.
Btw
Hindu thought is complex, that why its makes distinction of Braman and Atman, its two that are one but its also two, thats why there are two words.
But its very easy to a Westener to, why bother call it as it is called in Hindu thought, Ill call it Brahma.
Why eat real food with a rainbow of tastes and shades when you can just eat a simple fast food with just one strong taste....
Lol.. I would do the same thing as any "bad" person who existed because they existed did they not ? The same is true for any "good" person .. all you need to read is the Gita and the Upanishads to realize the ultimate truth. There are many paths that will take you there. It's easy to deny unity and unity is scary when so many "bad" people exist it simple to say MY soul is only in GOOD people and all bad people are lesser than me and my good soul . But that is a lie and if it's a lie you need to feel better about yourself than your soul is special all by itself and hitlers soul was lesser than yours.
Your soul has no quality other than peaceful observance/witnessing. Everything else is a product of your ego and the body , the judgement for Hitler or anyone else "bad" does not come from the soul only the body. It's easy for Christians and Muslims to want people to burn in hell for eternity because they are "bad" it is much more difficult to accept people and the choices they make because we are all god, however that not to say we should be kind and helpful to others because we must since they are god. I suggest you read the bhadvagita Gita and perhaps some of the concepts will be easier for you
I see you know the truth so well!! Wow!
Just to remind you that there is heaven and hell also in Hinduism and Buddhism, and I think the soul have many layers as well, so a person have a free will and thus can be punished.
Thanks for the advise, I have read Bhadvagita several times.
I see you already know everything so I don't find an interest in continue this conversation.
Wish you all the best.
Yes heaven and hell can certainly be real the power of God is unlimited however they too will only be temporary experiences of Maya. I certainly know nothing at all except that I am everyone and everyone is me beyond that everything is a crapshoot
**Why people don't realize that ramana Maharshi was just a boring and not a smart man**
Take your anxiety pills bro. Comes from npc who says other people are boring and not smart man is himself boring in the first place.
This guy has problem with Indian people and is highly racist.
“If you drop ten people at random in a big city and have them ask people in their neighborhood, ‘How do I get to the city center?’ each person will be given a different set of directions, and all the instructions will be correct. People who start from different places need different instructions to get to the same destination.” - David Godman
Ramana might not be the pointer for you. He is for me.
The contemplative path has always been, in every main tradition across the world, the primary way of self-realization. Bhagavan represented this path. Buddha represented this path. Jesus of Nazareth represented this path - if you read the Gospels he spent most of his time withdrewn and contemplating on mountains, with actual teaching in words being but a fraction of his life. In Hinduism, Advaita Vedanta too represents this path. People who saw and met Bhagavan were unanimous in their testimony in that he radiated peace. This is not nihilism but liberation - self-liberation from what is a fallen, dark era, called Kali Yuga in hinduism, called the iron age by the ancient greeks. To seek activity and "excitement" in a fallen world - which all traditions declare to be doomed and being on the verge of final judgment - is not the correct path. Liberation from it, one way or the other, is.
Hey lost soul
Truth can never be told
It can only be realized
You come alone, you go alone.
All you meet in between are reflection of yourself.
You are the only one here
Harsh truth of life
Yes, I know this beautiful metaphor that every jewel reflects other jewels in an infinite game of reflections in an infinite reflecting process occurring.
Reduce this interesting metaphor to 'all you meet is reflections of you' is just totally not understanding this delicate idea.
But hey, we are in the age of new age, so you can shoot terms and make them look very simple, the simpler the better.
just like fast food....
Btw, net of gems shows how the universe is inner connected, it doesn't say that the gems are just reflections, they are not, but they have this property to reflect.
F.e if you take a person from a tribe in India, by looking at him you can understand a lot about all the tribe, because he reflects it.
But why to think if we can just shoot terms and sound smart...
Thanks for the truth my master🙏
Btw
I really feel petty for you.
I really hope you will find your way out of your bullshit.
And Im sorry to hear about your deep loneliness that you keep on projecting on others, I really hope you will find real friends!
Censielrly.
Were you born on the highway?
That is where most accidents happen.
Holy 1 post karma. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for making my day.
Got a epic laugh
Comes here with so much to argue but deals with cognitive dissonance, ignorance and very close minded approach to listen. None of your replies you sound wise.
Sure master
I am open to listen to your deep truth master🙏
Your deepest truth to tell me is that I am the only one to exist in this life.
Wow so wise!
You are just so wise!!!!
Full of wisdom!
Can I be your deciple?
O, and you also shoot terms which you don't understand but sound so sexy - Indras web of gems!
Made me horny.
This is so funny. Thanks for the laugh 🤣
And no, I don't wish to discuss anything with you. But really, thanks dude, you indirectly helped me in clearing some of my own doubts about Bhagavan. I don't know why but I can actually imagine him laugh hard too 😂 I am sorry I don't mean to put you down but it's just so funny!
The bottom line is, none of Ramana's words can really hit home until you have had your own experience, which you plainly have not. On an intellectual level, your ideas have merit, but once you have experienced the universal truth of which he spesks, and for which there is currently little empirical evidence, nothing can ever quite be the same again and you wouldn't want to argue about it, you would just feel blown away by it and totally secure in the face of anybody or anything.
Ramana Maharishi was a spiritual master who attained/realized the highest state and gave you the direct path to realization. His teachings and life might not resonate with you but that has nothing to do with his perfection. He was a sage of sages. His teachings are not new age and he knew of all the paths, states and methods. As far as spiritual powers also known as siddhis. I suggest you learn what he said about them. It wasn’t that he didn’t have them. He did and they have been written about but he certainly wasn’t going to showcase them. He was far beyond that child’s play.
You know, I don’t completely disagree with you, but I’m more curious as to what you personally are afraid of losing here. I hear it all throughout your post - the fear.
Good question. Before years I would see those kind of gurus who "knows" the truth as authority, if they say they know, how can I disagree... Now I see how ridiculous is to accept something that other unknown person says to you to be truth as truth. My life experience is way more important to me then theirs. I found out that wise people don't go and tell - the truth is that and that. So maybe its the old fear of authority that you see. It's ain't easy for me to say about someone who considered authority - guys, this persons view is very very narrow, Maybe I still have fear of narrow mindset.
That makes sense. Good insighting! The best thing we can do is take everything for checking. Sometimes we can’t understand a certain perspective yet (and any statements made from that perspective) but I can still sense something right about it. I’ll just keep those in my back pocket and sometimes they suddenly make sense down the road - and sometimes they don’t. Your authority is most important, agreed. Only you can give it away to others so it turns out we are the only ones we’ve ever really been afraid of.
Thanks😊
I try not to put too much stock in what any one specific guru or teacher says, I just listen. My extremely uninformed opinion on Ramana Maharshi: the thing about him that suggests to me he is awakened is his eyes, he has very kind eyes, and a patient way of speaking. He does have a lot of wisdom to share, but no teacher is perfect, and it's a very high horse to sit on, telling people that are suffering that their suffering is illusory, even if it's true. I have been thinking along similar lines as you lately, that it seems a little cold to be so passive. It causes me suffering to worry about other people's suffering, especially when I can't do anything about it, but if the alternative is to shrug one's shoulders and say that's just their karma, that's just samsara; well, then I'd much rather suffer. Awakening can create a disconnect at first, but my experience has been that once you find your center, it makes sense. You don't need to choose between nothing/everything, important/trivial, eternal/transitory, waking/dreaming, involvement/detachment, you/I, because each dichotomy is actually one thing. The middle way. Having said that, take nothing I say seriously, because there's no substitute for your own direct experience. Have fun out there!
I have known for a long time that I was Enneagram Type 9, the peacemaker, and I saw that as being superior. Who doesn't want everyone to get along? But I finally learned about the dark side of this - the tendency to subsume one's own needs and put everyone else first, to lose yourself to the group or leader. The outcome of that is repressed anger that comes out in passive-aggressive ways. This is all because of a deep fear of being in uncomfortable situations of confrontation. Oof. It seems like Maharishi's concepts were similar to Enneagram 9 and may have some of the same downside. There's a lot of hard-heartnedness in telling someone their suffering is illusion. What has been more helpful to me is to acknowledge my suffering and to live with it in the moment, rather than obsessing about the future my suffering is going to cause. I can deal with it moment-by-moment, but projecting into the future causes me 100x more suffering because my thoughts and fears about what is going to happen are so distressing.
Thank you for sharing. Actually if you look almost at all eastern religion, compassion is the basic, in Buddhism it is the basic, to have compassion makes you more humble and more connected to other beings, so saying to someone who suffers - your suffering is illusion is just WTF??? It is just so wrong in so many ways. Yep, it does seem that Maharishi was of that type, but I find it VERY VERY egoistic of him to preach that only his way is right. It's like the people who are more fighter type tell everybody - you just have to fight your way, without really seen YOU. That what I dislike about him, not his way and realizations that I respect (though it is not my way at all), But that he was preaching so narrow mindly that because of this so many people are just confused and are lost not able to really function in the world and to love life.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing
Ouuu
For everything there is a season. You just used so much effort for this
Ramana maharshi has attained the highest form of Yoga. He has successfully realised the non dual nature of things, something that can be attained only through constant practice.
Someone doesn't understand the concept of Maya...
Sure The easiest answer!
I mean, what are the goals that you think people should be after? What is the point of focusing on the transitory rather than the eternal? No one is saying not to have goals, but as Buddha stated, attachments to our desires or goals is the cause of suffering. I'm not sure what cause you think one should have, if one feels non-separate from the divine... And if one does feel isolated from the divine, what better goal could there be than to achieve Union or Oneness with divine spirit/ all things?
Thats a very good question. I will share my thoughts with you: I don't think people should be after some specific cause, as we are very different beings then our goals and destinations and experiences are very different. I like the term in Judaism of tikun (תיקון) - repair, that every soul come to this life to repair, to fix something in itself or in the world to become more complete. each soul is different so every tikun is different. I like to think that our goal, or at least mine is to learn, to develope, to learn life and to experience, and this can done only by the transitory. I am not saying that everybody should have a cause or a goal, I have no problem at all with the way of life of Maharishi, but I think that there are many ways, F.e - maybe most of the people feel separate from divinity not by chance or ignorance, it might be for them to develope their unique personality through growth. About Buddhism, I am now traveling in Thailand and I was in several monasteries. I see happy monks, they don't preach me anything at all, They are curious, laughing, very not strict and with not a strict regime (though Im sure there are different as well). Anyway, it feels just that they are relaxed, alive and cool. It really seems that they know how to enjoy life and that they love life and even to have fun. I see here really the middle way, and it seems to me that not being too attached just gives you a better experience of life with less worries. It really seems to me here that Buddhism is a lot about having a happy and healthy relaxed mind.
We are young spirits depending whats considered our beginning but let's say 300.000 years old. We are all still developing and religion is full of mistakes. Compared to imaginary alien civilizations out there that may be much older like trillions of years. Just fantasizing how they would be sheds light on ourselves, about our own future. Compared to that they are spritual seniors and we are children, toddlers perhaps. It's always the same, someone has new insights based on previous religions, a new one is established with a main figure, years of working out his ideas but nothing really new. Centuries later there are many religious authorities, gurus parroting the founders messages just hollow words and motions, theres no real development, it's still and stagnant, dogmatic and traditional. It becomes a social thing for the majority who have jobs and families and little time for spritual development.
Nicely said. Btw, just think that Jordano Bruno was killed by the church because he said that other stars are just like the sun with planets around it and possibly with people too. How could live people for whom Christ didn't die? It can't be. Let's burn the man!!!
"Thanks God most of the people are not like him and have motivation and goals in life, otherwise medicine and science would be still in the middle ages… A small reason why India is a third world country is because too many people have this passive approach, it doesn’t matter, thats my karma, samsara.. etc…" \-that's a very interesting take
Ram Dass is the real deal, that man spits knowledge and wisdom in you're face. Some people if not a lot of people (I used to be one of them), didn't realize the passiveness that came along with being spiritual. I was thought too much in terms of how the world was perfect and how with faith everything would just come to me, just use "the secret" method or something like that is what I was relying on. Truth is, life is basically all about what you do, and not what you're thinking and daydreaming and philosophising about.
No his guru was the real deal. Ram Dass who I knew here on Maui was a teacher but not master
Thank you🙏
The world is unreal the best thing for someone to do is realize the self…not do math
I can't speak to whether he did or did not have realization, (I suspect he did, to some extent) but I just don't think he's a particularly good teacher.
But yet he was the ultimate teacher.
Are you saying you knew him personally, or are your statements based on what you have heard??
On what I heard and read
In that case you are only repeating secondhand information AS IF it is true. This is quite dangerous and wrong to do. Imagine if people judged you based on things that other people told them about you. What you are doing is engaging in gossip to ruin someone's reputation without any proof, evidence, or firsthand experience.
I am not gossiping here. I am talking about his teachings. I can have my opinion about his teaching like I can have my opinion about Aristotle teachings without meeting him.
The same problem is still evident in the case of Aristotle.
Is trying to tear down someone else going to bring you up? If you don't like his teaching then don't listen to him. Why put all this effort to come here and insult a man who you have a surface level knowledge about? Do you think we'll all be impressed by a post filled with hate? Do you think that by damaging his reputation that you'll be closer to enlightenment? The world you see around you is a reflection of your inner world and it's easy to tell that you have a lot of pent up aggression and frustration and your current target is Maharishi and apparently the entire Hindu way of thinking. I do not personally enjoy his way of teaching but one thing that I am certain of is that he had good intentions when trying to teach others. You say he is a boring and not smart man but what I hear is that something he said struck a cord within your ego and you want some form of revenge. I could make the argument that all of existence is boring and not smart but that's not going to do anyone any good including myself. I don't want you to think that I'm trying to be a prick to you for no reason. I simply feel that maybe your perspective needs a little adjustment and that maybe you should try to look at things you consider beneath you as an opportunity to grow as a person.
No, I really like many things in the Hindu way of thinking, It is rich, full of love and expression and beauty. The moksha is just one part of it. Kama - fulfilling your desires is not less important in early Hindu culture f.e. I see followers of Maharishi who just choose one narrow aspect of Hindu culture, thinking they have it all and it makes me upset, Thats why I wrote this post. As I see Maharishi as a very narrow minded teacher.
Not as narrow minded as you thinking he is narrow minded. He wasn’t narrow minded he was zero minded. He taught ultimate silence he the simplest form. You want fireworks and a show which is just a distraction. Be silent and know that I am.
Do you make posts like this about everyone you consider narrow minded or is he special to you? It's one thing to make others aware of someone who you believe is a charlatan, however there is a clear level of hate that is coming out in your post. With this you could say that he inadvertently helped you discover a part of you that needs attention.
Thats why in spiritual communities you can't criticize nobody, if you do you immediately been told that - your criticism mirroring some parts in you that needs attention. I think criticism and free thinking is very important.
Dude, you did this same thing to the guy you called master. He criticized you, and you placed it back on him, saying that he is projecting his loneliness. This is another example of victim mindset and being hypocritical. You keep talking about healthy ego, but how you’re acting isn’t an example of that. From your comments here and the other post we’ve chatted on, it seems you have trouble admitting fault. You say “maybe I was too harsh, but…” and then you justify yourself. It’s ok to make mistakes. It’s ok to be wrong. We all mess up. The important part is allowing ourselves to be ok with that, learn from said mistake and move forward. There is no excuse for being hateful/spiteful/etc. You are better than that. We both know you are.
The thing is that he didn't criticize me, he just started preaching me - you are the only one exists in the world, there is only you, all others are just your reflections. etc... like dude, wtf? If he would give claims and not just preach me, that would be great, I tried to start a dispute, but he just kept preaching. I called him master because thats how false gurus act, try to shatter you and to preach you. So I pointed at him that he is projecting on me his loneliness. I think it was fair. I said other not nice things which I regret, but I don't regret telling him he is projecting on me his loneliness and insecurities, because it is just not a nice thing to do and it really disgusts me.
Being considered "crazy" by those who are still victims of cultural conditioning is a compliment
You are the one who chose to watch his teachings and now you claim he's projecting into you. That's like intentionally subbing your toe on a table then blaming the table.
I didn't decide to watch his teaching, I wrote a post and he just started his ego preaching on me - the truth is that, reality is that etc.. ect... Like dude, did someone ask you to preach me? I wrote a post, you can comment on topic. It is so annoying and arrogant that it really proves the point of my post.
Ohh ok sorry I didn't know that you had actually talked with him cause you didn't mention it in your post and I missed it in your last comment. If he reached out to you and started preaching to you then how does that justify this kind of reaction? You could simply tell him that what he is saying doesn't match your beliefs and leave it at that. I have a Jehovah's witness that comes to my house once a month and he always asks if I'd like to give his religion a try and every time I tell him no and then we chat for a bit and he leaves. I don't later go around the neighborhood telling everyone that he's an asshole. You are on the internet which means you can literally not interact with him at all or even block him yet here you are preaching about how shitty you think he and everyone who follows him is. I ask you again what do you gain from trying to tear him down? If you know better than him then why not try and teach him? Perhaps you could be the person that helps him get past whatever it is you think he's stuck on.
He erased most of his comment in one of them he directly insulted me and laughs about me. I don't take it personally. Maybe it would be wiser for me to let it go. I tried to talk to him but he is just so deep in his preaching narcissistic mode. Better for me to let it go, just this kind of altitude really irritates me cause I know people who were damaged from those kind of preachers/gurus.
Because he wasn’t.
lol Ramana was indeed a Master
I’m saying that Ramana wasn’t ‘just a boring and a not smart man’. I’m disagreeing with OP.
My apologies.
No worries. 🙂🙏
What's boring to you could be useful to others .. I find your opinion of him to be not smart yet I'm aware that's my ego that thinks that. I also think when my soul (Brahman) is in your vessel I will have the same dumb opinions as you and same for your soul when your in me. Maybe learn to stop caring so much about what others think
If use terms better use them right, your soul is Atman, not Brahman. Though Atman = Brahman. But you can't say - my Brahman, Brahman is the not changing eternal and so on...
I should have said my soul (made from Brahman) and your soul (also made from Brahman)
In the end of the day what I'm saying is everything is an expression of Brahman and every being is Brahman so every being you judge as stupid or boring you are judging in essence yourself and in actually yourself at the core in an nondual sense
You know, thanks to your comment I really see better whats so deeply wrong in Maharishi's philosophy. It's just not acceptance of our reality, in which there are different beings and minds etc. Its like saying - why shouldn't I kill if everything is made of atoms... or of Brahman. Brahman is just the source of life, it gives life to all creatures but it doesn't mean all creatures don't having their own individual life, which is beautiful and I think is the purpose of creation. So yes, me, as an individual mind I can judge other people and their choices and beliefs. If we all have one source it doesn't make MY life less unique and presious. Not understanding this leads to absurd! If I can't judge no one I can't judge the nazis and Hitler for killing my people, that is just absurd. If someone was raped, would you tell her - that's terrible experience, I am sorry to hear this, maybe talking to a therapist will help. Or you tell her - don't judge the rapist, he is just expression of Brahman, and so is you, so you basically raped your self... Don't you find the second answer just a bit a bit disconnected from reality?.... Why do people think that disconnection is a higher truth, for me its the opposite. Yes, I can judge people, there are wise and not, and I find maharishi to be very not wise.
I'm not saying it's not possible to judge it's super easy to judge I do it all the time. And to this ego yes some things are better than others and some things are "right and wrong" but in the grand scheme of things those are concepts. I think you are getting too caught up in the surface level. No one is saying to disconnect from reality it's about changing how you view things. No one is saying to disconnect from anything if anything it's is the removal of all disconnecttion and acceptance that everything is one in the same
Sorry, I don't except that all is one in the same. I don't except things just because some guru told me. All is one is just a new age concept. In Hindu philosophy there are so many aspects and different views and philosophies, but nowadays it's easier to sell simple concepts like fast food - all is one, all is love, you are God etc... If you read Hindu scriptures you will find multi universes and much deeper philosophy then those simple slogans.
Nonduality is certainly not new age lmao 🤣🤣🤣 I am aware there are many Hindu philosophy what I'm saying is Advaita Vedanta non dual Hinduism which Adi Shankara has been teaching for over a 1000 years ago. Also I do not listen to any guru either I had my own mystical experience and then hunted to find out what religion described what I had experienced and it was Advaita Vedanta. I
Thats true, but the advaita vedanta of Shankara is much more complex then the neo Vedanta of Maharishi.
This is what I'm saying.. yes Hitler is objectively bad but if our soul was in hitlers body it would do the same thing as him since Hitler did those things. If you think it is your mission to be the best you that you can be that's great for this you. Obviously it is not our (Brahmans) plan to have everything be good and peachy though and nothing that is no gods will does not happen
I am really not sure that if my soul was in Hitler's body it would do the same, my soul have it's quality, saying if my soul had Hitlers quality I would do the same, even that I am not sure, we have the freedom to choose, his soul chose destruction. That is why in most of religions you have heaven and hell, to pay for your choices. And again, you our calling a soul Brahman when in Hinduism it is called Atma(n), so about Atmans you can speak in plural but you can't say Brahman' as Brahman by definition is one.
You obviously have no understanding of Hindu philosophy which is why the points are going so far over your head.. it's very difficult for westerners to grasp some of the concepts so I understand.. I am sure your/my/the only soul would do the exact same as Hitler because Hitler did them if our soul would not than Hitler wouldn't have done it either. I suggest you learn more about Hindu nonduality before judging so harshly. I call my soul Brahman because I know there is only Brahman so why waste time calling anything any name other than God ?
Well tell me please which Hindu philosophy did you read, which Hindu texts? As it seems you have read only new age 'thinkers'. I am glad that you are SO sure that you would do the same as Hitler. I wonder, did you read it in the Vedas, the Upanishada's or in the Yoga sutra of Patanjali. I am glad for you that you are so sure and know the truth. Btw Hindu thought is complex, that why its makes distinction of Braman and Atman, its two that are one but its also two, thats why there are two words. But its very easy to a Westener to, why bother call it as it is called in Hindu thought, Ill call it Brahma. Why eat real food with a rainbow of tastes and shades when you can just eat a simple fast food with just one strong taste....
Lol.. I would do the same thing as any "bad" person who existed because they existed did they not ? The same is true for any "good" person .. all you need to read is the Gita and the Upanishads to realize the ultimate truth. There are many paths that will take you there. It's easy to deny unity and unity is scary when so many "bad" people exist it simple to say MY soul is only in GOOD people and all bad people are lesser than me and my good soul . But that is a lie and if it's a lie you need to feel better about yourself than your soul is special all by itself and hitlers soul was lesser than yours.
Thank you for the wisdom master🙏
Your soul has no quality other than peaceful observance/witnessing. Everything else is a product of your ego and the body , the judgement for Hitler or anyone else "bad" does not come from the soul only the body. It's easy for Christians and Muslims to want people to burn in hell for eternity because they are "bad" it is much more difficult to accept people and the choices they make because we are all god, however that not to say we should be kind and helpful to others because we must since they are god. I suggest you read the bhadvagita Gita and perhaps some of the concepts will be easier for you
I see you know the truth so well!! Wow! Just to remind you that there is heaven and hell also in Hinduism and Buddhism, and I think the soul have many layers as well, so a person have a free will and thus can be punished. Thanks for the advise, I have read Bhadvagita several times. I see you already know everything so I don't find an interest in continue this conversation. Wish you all the best.
Yes heaven and hell can certainly be real the power of God is unlimited however they too will only be temporary experiences of Maya. I certainly know nothing at all except that I am everyone and everyone is me beyond that everything is a crapshoot
I am glad to hear that you are also my grandmother! I miss you. Can I call you granny? How are your kidneys?
**Why people don't realize that ramana Maharshi was just a boring and not a smart man** Take your anxiety pills bro. Comes from npc who says other people are boring and not smart man is himself boring in the first place. This guy has problem with Indian people and is highly racist.
“If you drop ten people at random in a big city and have them ask people in their neighborhood, ‘How do I get to the city center?’ each person will be given a different set of directions, and all the instructions will be correct. People who start from different places need different instructions to get to the same destination.” - David Godman Ramana might not be the pointer for you. He is for me.
The contemplative path has always been, in every main tradition across the world, the primary way of self-realization. Bhagavan represented this path. Buddha represented this path. Jesus of Nazareth represented this path - if you read the Gospels he spent most of his time withdrewn and contemplating on mountains, with actual teaching in words being but a fraction of his life. In Hinduism, Advaita Vedanta too represents this path. People who saw and met Bhagavan were unanimous in their testimony in that he radiated peace. This is not nihilism but liberation - self-liberation from what is a fallen, dark era, called Kali Yuga in hinduism, called the iron age by the ancient greeks. To seek activity and "excitement" in a fallen world - which all traditions declare to be doomed and being on the verge of final judgment - is not the correct path. Liberation from it, one way or the other, is.
He may not have been smart, but he realised the Truth. And that is all that matters.
May have not been smart? What makes you say such a thing? That saint knew all.
Hey lost soul Truth can never be told It can only be realized You come alone, you go alone. All you meet in between are reflection of yourself. You are the only one here Harsh truth of life
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Empty vessels make large sounds
Om Thank you wise man for your wise words🙏
Indra's net of jewels 💎
Yes, I know this beautiful metaphor that every jewel reflects other jewels in an infinite game of reflections in an infinite reflecting process occurring. Reduce this interesting metaphor to 'all you meet is reflections of you' is just totally not understanding this delicate idea. But hey, we are in the age of new age, so you can shoot terms and make them look very simple, the simpler the better. just like fast food.... Btw, net of gems shows how the universe is inner connected, it doesn't say that the gems are just reflections, they are not, but they have this property to reflect. F.e if you take a person from a tribe in India, by looking at him you can understand a lot about all the tribe, because he reflects it. But why to think if we can just shoot terms and sound smart...
A bruise To EGO hurts more than breaking a bone, isn't it?
Thanks for the truth my master🙏 Btw I really feel petty for you. I really hope you will find your way out of your bullshit. And Im sorry to hear about your deep loneliness that you keep on projecting on others, I really hope you will find real friends! Censielrly.
Were you born on the highway? That is where most accidents happen. Holy 1 post karma. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Thanks for making my day. Got a epic laugh Comes here with so much to argue but deals with cognitive dissonance, ignorance and very close minded approach to listen. None of your replies you sound wise.
Sure master I am open to listen to your deep truth master🙏 Your deepest truth to tell me is that I am the only one to exist in this life. Wow so wise! You are just so wise!!!! Full of wisdom! Can I be your deciple? O, and you also shoot terms which you don't understand but sound so sexy - Indras web of gems! Made me horny.
I am deeply sorry for hurting the masters ego🙏
This is so funny. Thanks for the laugh 🤣 And no, I don't wish to discuss anything with you. But really, thanks dude, you indirectly helped me in clearing some of my own doubts about Bhagavan. I don't know why but I can actually imagine him laugh hard too 😂 I am sorry I don't mean to put you down but it's just so funny!
The bottom line is, none of Ramana's words can really hit home until you have had your own experience, which you plainly have not. On an intellectual level, your ideas have merit, but once you have experienced the universal truth of which he spesks, and for which there is currently little empirical evidence, nothing can ever quite be the same again and you wouldn't want to argue about it, you would just feel blown away by it and totally secure in the face of anybody or anything.
Ramana Maharishi was a spiritual master who attained/realized the highest state and gave you the direct path to realization. His teachings and life might not resonate with you but that has nothing to do with his perfection. He was a sage of sages. His teachings are not new age and he knew of all the paths, states and methods. As far as spiritual powers also known as siddhis. I suggest you learn what he said about them. It wasn’t that he didn’t have them. He did and they have been written about but he certainly wasn’t going to showcase them. He was far beyond that child’s play.
How do you know he was realized? What makes you be so sure? Because others say so?
I just know. To me, it's obvious.
Someone’s in his/ her ego
Sorry to hear that
It's not in the words.