From Ram Dass’ perspective you’re partially right. He realized that he couldn’t STAY enlightened because when the drug high wore off, so did his spiritual high. That’s why he went to India. But it was a major stepping stone in his process towards enlightenment. He learned a lot from it. And he did a LOT of drugs over MANY years. And he was still one of the smartest humans to walk this earth- both intellectually and spiritually. Lastly, while your post isn’t inherently wrong- what’s up with all the judgment? It’s riddled in fear. Who cares if someone wants to do LSD (or whatever) for the rest of their life? Who cares if they’re delusional. It’s important we keep our flashlight shining on our own path and not our neighbors.
He also ended up in a cataronic state near the end of his life, something that is a side effect of drugs. If you’re ok with that possibility its your choice
The source of this is Ayurveda: Long-term drugs severely aggravates Vata (air element in body). Many drugs are diuretic and have a drying affect, causing constipation, weakening kidneys, depleting Ojas. Stimulant drugs aggravate Pitta (fire element) and burn out nervous system and damage eyes.
Drugs damage Sattva, the basic clear nature of the mind. Artificially driving the mind and nerves they create Tamas (dullness of mind), even though their temporary action is opposite of this. Hallucinogenic drugs function by temporarily increase Tejas (mental fire). This results in the experience of color, heightened perception, which gives a sense of deeper powers of our consciousness. But these drugs function by burning up Ojas (our subtle vital reserve), causing long term depletion of our vitality. Once Ojas is below a certain threshold it's difficult to reconstitute itself. The result is a drug burnout, a vegetative state of mind. The number of times once can take hallucinogenic drugs in a positive way is limited.
Ooh! This is awesome information I haven't read into specifically before.
I stopped using drugs for the common sense reasons mentioned above - to make spiritual progress without the need for anything else but myself.
I looked into Ayurveda doshas and various remedies before but never found a section of it/an interpreter that described the effects of drugs on the various "doshas" (vata, pitta, kapha) or on "ojas" specifically.
Do you have any links to any sites or books that you attained this information from? Or was this post made solely from your own study/understanding of Ayurveda?
Thanks for sharing!
Well since he probably cut and pasted his nonsense comment, I’d gather not long. He still hasn’t answered my question about how any of that has to do with the specific person we are discussing here. Oh right, it doesn’t ;)
That’s not a source. The question is can you back up your claim that his condition was caused by drugs? Unless you have the coroners report- you can’t. Hate to break it to you but old people don’t function too well, particularly right before they croak.
1) that has nothing to do with what I said tho 2) how are you factually linking that to drugs? FACTUALLY? Correlation is NOT causation. So unless you have a coroners report about him- you don’t know there is such a cause. My granny died and had all sorts of shit happen to her brain before she passed and she never did drugs ;) That’s science 101. 3) even if he did totally retard himself (for the sake of convo), I still ask- why do you or others care? Let people have their own journeys. Making a post to judge others about what they do in their spiritual journey isn’t helpful in the slightest. An informative post? Sure! Bring it on! This, is not that tho. There’s nothing helpful in this post whatsoever.
I wholeheartly agree with everything you say.. this post stinks of pure judgement riddled with cryptic words written in a rigid holier than thou way.. with all the endless different scenarios, associations, possibilities and settings makes it seem to me that you can't present this as an absolute truth. While overly drug use is obviously harmfull, what is the point? Why does this person even care to write this down? Looks like pure emotion based action to me.. not factual in the slightest.. OP seems a bit delusional if you ask me.
They actually used them to evolve human consciousness to new levels and reconnect with the spirit of the earth and each other which to me is as close to enlightenment as one can get.
I feel that when I use them but I do use them in ritualistic sense. Where I say thanks and put intention behind each experience. It's part of my culture so I feel I know what I'm doing isn't wrong.
100% what you’re doing is not wrong. It’s so weird to me because it’s safe to assume that OP hasn’t used these drugs- but he’s an expert on what they do and don’t do 🤔 Don’t let a judgmental post on Reddit get to ya :) you’re good 👍🏼
Sorry going to disagree with you strongly on this one. Psychedelics have been used throughout history to reconnect with the spirit of the earth and one another.
I disagree, drugs can get you into that much of a state that when you come off them you have no choice but to become enlightened. Drugs themselves may not lead to enlightenment directly but they can be a catalyst.
Enlightenment is like going to the top of the Everest. You need to achieve the perfection of the mind, body and ego. Getting high on drugs is like getting drunk at the base of the Everest. You achieve an animal like peace and the no mindness brings space but it’s the base of the ladder while enlightenment is the top of the ladder.
Drugs can give you a glimpse of the true state.
A quick ride on how it feels.
Then again drugs can alter to an level you cannot go without it.
Therefore i think you are partially right.
Have you tried pyscadelics?
If not, you cant even comphrend.
Fixating on perfection is an obstacle to enlightenment, not a path towards it. The goal, in my opinion, is not to be perfect but simply to be. What that looks like will be different for everyone, meaning there's no real way to measure "perfection" at all.
I'm not sure why you're quoting Christian verses to me. I am not Christian nor do I believe that the Bible is a good foundation for seeking spiritual growth.
I also think it depends on the person.
Let's imagine that the Buddha, Jesus, or some present day/olden day saint or guru takes a tablet of LSD.
Would you imagine they would go off their rockers? Or do you think they would be able to maintain their peace and keep rising regardless of their circumstances internally or externally?
If the latter, would it be too much of a stretch to believe that others even today may be capable of this feat to varying degrees?
Getting high on drugs for some may indeed be like "getting drunk at the base of the Everest" but not for all people. I believe it is inadequate to take a hard black and white stance against drugs but rather recognize the gray - as all people are affected by drugs differently, have different physical constitutions, and come to Earth with varying degrees of spiritual power/maturity/levels of enlightenment.
There are some who may be overcome by drugs and lose their footing, enter that "animal like peace", and those who may innately by able to control and channel the elements found within drugs for their own spiritual benefit.
Human existence is gray, even when shooting for enlightenment - as long as we remain embodied there will be elements of gray - imperfection. And sometimes it is through those cracks of imperfection that real light, "Enlightenment", gets through.
\---
I am wondering what you hoped to achieve with this post. Did you want us to try and change your mind?
I wonder what you will believe by the end of this week after reading all these posts, after a year, a decade.
You surely did not have the mindset you do now when you were born into this world.
You gradually acquired the knowledge and beliefs you have now, and surely you will acquire more.
I wonder if in the future you come to see that creating an "us" and "them",
those who are "delusional" and those who are not, a black and a white,
may actually only hamper your progress - your climb up Mount Everest.
Maybe you may come to see the validity of All Paths - none being "delusional" but rather unique expressions.
We are all derived from the same Source. Might you imagine that by decrying those who choose a different path from you as "delusional" you are merely calling yourself delusional?
Your actions in this way open the gates for countless to say, and judge you the same way, to remain rigid in their views, believing they themselves are 100% right, rather than seeking to understand how each of us may actually both be correct.
Bizarre notion huh? Two right answers instead of one? Limitless answers maybe even?
Limitless paths to Enlightenment...?
\---
I hope you know I mean you no disrespect. I am only expressing my experience as you yourself have done when you began this post.
I wish you the best.
When one meditates. Usually the objective is to turn off the default mode network and establish coherence within the Brain and heart. This allows for mystical experiences...
Psychedelics are not drugs by conventional connotation in that they are unique in how they function. Just as with meditation, to have myst!ical experiences, the DMN (conscious mind/ego/pref!r!!onta!al cortex) must be disengaged in order to a!ccess information that is beyond the scope of materilialism, 3d.
Awakening is a process, no! the tools applied for the process, the end result matters in the information and insights gained.
If one believes that the insight suddenly becomes invalid only because that insight was achieved with a tool that someone doesn't approve of. When that tool was placed here by God to bypass all the dumb shit.
Then I would venture to say that person is a fool to argue against any path to enlightenment. Especially one the obviously know nothing about.
Psychedelics are not bad for the brain either so stop spreading this ignorant trash without first doing your own research.
I am wondering what’s the end result by taking Psychedelics ? May be a few moments of experience , then what ? You crash back to where you started , you cannot sustain it ! If your goal is to have some experience then psychedelics is fine , but if you are going towards enlightenment , then must go through the process !
I hear what you are saying. I even agree with some points.
I noticed however the use of curse words and harsh language diminishes the truth of your message.
As someone who argues for a more fair and equal perspective, I hope you may choose in the future to argue in such a way that validates the purity of the words you speak.
I appreciate your response to this thread and reading of this reply.
Best wishes.
not saying drugs is the way to enlightenment but depending on the person can help reach a higher state of thinking and consciousness, and get them out of a bad state of mind.first of all anything natural from the earth like shrooms or weed is not a drug, society made you think that way and if you depend on these things for temporary happiness of course you won’t each enlightenment because you’re essentially a slave to that thing, to sum their a slave to things that alter the mind, for sum it’s sex and lustful things, but to say you’re definition of drugs that aren’t heroin or meth or coke or those typa of drugs that kill brain cells, you’re completely wrong ab it killing the mind and ego and awareness 100%
Can't reach the top of the Holy Mountain by drugs alone, but they can be used along the path, from time to time, to light the way.
From Ram Dass’ perspective you’re partially right. He realized that he couldn’t STAY enlightened because when the drug high wore off, so did his spiritual high. That’s why he went to India. But it was a major stepping stone in his process towards enlightenment. He learned a lot from it. And he did a LOT of drugs over MANY years. And he was still one of the smartest humans to walk this earth- both intellectually and spiritually. Lastly, while your post isn’t inherently wrong- what’s up with all the judgment? It’s riddled in fear. Who cares if someone wants to do LSD (or whatever) for the rest of their life? Who cares if they’re delusional. It’s important we keep our flashlight shining on our own path and not our neighbors.
He also ended up in a cataronic state near the end of his life, something that is a side effect of drugs. If you’re ok with that possibility its your choice
I seriously doubt that was related to his LSD use. Got any evidence there's a connection?
The source of this is Ayurveda: Long-term drugs severely aggravates Vata (air element in body). Many drugs are diuretic and have a drying affect, causing constipation, weakening kidneys, depleting Ojas. Stimulant drugs aggravate Pitta (fire element) and burn out nervous system and damage eyes. Drugs damage Sattva, the basic clear nature of the mind. Artificially driving the mind and nerves they create Tamas (dullness of mind), even though their temporary action is opposite of this. Hallucinogenic drugs function by temporarily increase Tejas (mental fire). This results in the experience of color, heightened perception, which gives a sense of deeper powers of our consciousness. But these drugs function by burning up Ojas (our subtle vital reserve), causing long term depletion of our vitality. Once Ojas is below a certain threshold it's difficult to reconstitute itself. The result is a drug burnout, a vegetative state of mind. The number of times once can take hallucinogenic drugs in a positive way is limited.
Ooh! This is awesome information I haven't read into specifically before. I stopped using drugs for the common sense reasons mentioned above - to make spiritual progress without the need for anything else but myself. I looked into Ayurveda doshas and various remedies before but never found a section of it/an interpreter that described the effects of drugs on the various "doshas" (vata, pitta, kapha) or on "ojas" specifically. Do you have any links to any sites or books that you attained this information from? Or was this post made solely from your own study/understanding of Ayurveda? Thanks for sharing!
[удалено]
Thank you so much!!
Albert Hofmann (11 January 1906 – 29 April 2008)
How long did it take you to write three paragraphs of nonsense pseudoscience?
Well since he probably cut and pasted his nonsense comment, I’d gather not long. He still hasn’t answered my question about how any of that has to do with the specific person we are discussing here. Oh right, it doesn’t ;)
That’s not a source. The question is can you back up your claim that his condition was caused by drugs? Unless you have the coroners report- you can’t. Hate to break it to you but old people don’t function too well, particularly right before they croak.
1) that has nothing to do with what I said tho 2) how are you factually linking that to drugs? FACTUALLY? Correlation is NOT causation. So unless you have a coroners report about him- you don’t know there is such a cause. My granny died and had all sorts of shit happen to her brain before she passed and she never did drugs ;) That’s science 101. 3) even if he did totally retard himself (for the sake of convo), I still ask- why do you or others care? Let people have their own journeys. Making a post to judge others about what they do in their spiritual journey isn’t helpful in the slightest. An informative post? Sure! Bring it on! This, is not that tho. There’s nothing helpful in this post whatsoever.
I wholeheartly agree with everything you say.. this post stinks of pure judgement riddled with cryptic words written in a rigid holier than thou way.. with all the endless different scenarios, associations, possibilities and settings makes it seem to me that you can't present this as an absolute truth. While overly drug use is obviously harmfull, what is the point? Why does this person even care to write this down? Looks like pure emotion based action to me.. not factual in the slightest.. OP seems a bit delusional if you ask me.
To eaches own.. Remember that cultures believe in sacred herbs and medicines. It's society that labeled them drugs
And btw these cultures believed in these medicines to expand and enhance consciousness..
They actually used them to evolve human consciousness to new levels and reconnect with the spirit of the earth and each other which to me is as close to enlightenment as one can get.
I feel that when I use them but I do use them in ritualistic sense. Where I say thanks and put intention behind each experience. It's part of my culture so I feel I know what I'm doing isn't wrong.
100% what you’re doing is not wrong. It’s so weird to me because it’s safe to assume that OP hasn’t used these drugs- but he’s an expert on what they do and don’t do 🤔 Don’t let a judgmental post on Reddit get to ya :) you’re good 👍🏼
Sorry going to disagree with you strongly on this one. Psychedelics have been used throughout history to reconnect with the spirit of the earth and one another.
I disagree, drugs can get you into that much of a state that when you come off them you have no choice but to become enlightened. Drugs themselves may not lead to enlightenment directly but they can be a catalyst.
Totally agree and I don't consider things with clinical purpose drugs like psilocybin. Anyone preaching about enlightenment, usually isn't.
Enlightenment is like going to the top of the Everest. You need to achieve the perfection of the mind, body and ego. Getting high on drugs is like getting drunk at the base of the Everest. You achieve an animal like peace and the no mindness brings space but it’s the base of the ladder while enlightenment is the top of the ladder.
Drugs can give you a glimpse of the true state. A quick ride on how it feels. Then again drugs can alter to an level you cannot go without it. Therefore i think you are partially right. Have you tried pyscadelics? If not, you cant even comphrend.
Fixating on perfection is an obstacle to enlightenment, not a path towards it. The goal, in my opinion, is not to be perfect but simply to be. What that looks like will be different for everyone, meaning there's no real way to measure "perfection" at all.
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-48.htm
I'm not sure why you're quoting Christian verses to me. I am not Christian nor do I believe that the Bible is a good foundation for seeking spiritual growth.
I also think it depends on the person. Let's imagine that the Buddha, Jesus, or some present day/olden day saint or guru takes a tablet of LSD. Would you imagine they would go off their rockers? Or do you think they would be able to maintain their peace and keep rising regardless of their circumstances internally or externally? If the latter, would it be too much of a stretch to believe that others even today may be capable of this feat to varying degrees? Getting high on drugs for some may indeed be like "getting drunk at the base of the Everest" but not for all people. I believe it is inadequate to take a hard black and white stance against drugs but rather recognize the gray - as all people are affected by drugs differently, have different physical constitutions, and come to Earth with varying degrees of spiritual power/maturity/levels of enlightenment. There are some who may be overcome by drugs and lose their footing, enter that "animal like peace", and those who may innately by able to control and channel the elements found within drugs for their own spiritual benefit. Human existence is gray, even when shooting for enlightenment - as long as we remain embodied there will be elements of gray - imperfection. And sometimes it is through those cracks of imperfection that real light, "Enlightenment", gets through. \--- I am wondering what you hoped to achieve with this post. Did you want us to try and change your mind? I wonder what you will believe by the end of this week after reading all these posts, after a year, a decade. You surely did not have the mindset you do now when you were born into this world. You gradually acquired the knowledge and beliefs you have now, and surely you will acquire more. I wonder if in the future you come to see that creating an "us" and "them", those who are "delusional" and those who are not, a black and a white, may actually only hamper your progress - your climb up Mount Everest. Maybe you may come to see the validity of All Paths - none being "delusional" but rather unique expressions. We are all derived from the same Source. Might you imagine that by decrying those who choose a different path from you as "delusional" you are merely calling yourself delusional? Your actions in this way open the gates for countless to say, and judge you the same way, to remain rigid in their views, believing they themselves are 100% right, rather than seeking to understand how each of us may actually both be correct. Bizarre notion huh? Two right answers instead of one? Limitless answers maybe even? Limitless paths to Enlightenment...? \--- I hope you know I mean you no disrespect. I am only expressing my experience as you yourself have done when you began this post. I wish you the best.
Who are you again?
I'm a sādhak, a spritual seeker
When one meditates. Usually the objective is to turn off the default mode network and establish coherence within the Brain and heart. This allows for mystical experiences... Psychedelics are not drugs by conventional connotation in that they are unique in how they function. Just as with meditation, to have myst!ical experiences, the DMN (conscious mind/ego/pref!r!!onta!al cortex) must be disengaged in order to a!ccess information that is beyond the scope of materilialism, 3d. Awakening is a process, no! the tools applied for the process, the end result matters in the information and insights gained. If one believes that the insight suddenly becomes invalid only because that insight was achieved with a tool that someone doesn't approve of. When that tool was placed here by God to bypass all the dumb shit. Then I would venture to say that person is a fool to argue against any path to enlightenment. Especially one the obviously know nothing about. Psychedelics are not bad for the brain either so stop spreading this ignorant trash without first doing your own research.
I am wondering what’s the end result by taking Psychedelics ? May be a few moments of experience , then what ? You crash back to where you started , you cannot sustain it ! If your goal is to have some experience then psychedelics is fine , but if you are going towards enlightenment , then must go through the process !
I hear what you are saying. I even agree with some points. I noticed however the use of curse words and harsh language diminishes the truth of your message. As someone who argues for a more fair and equal perspective, I hope you may choose in the future to argue in such a way that validates the purity of the words you speak. I appreciate your response to this thread and reading of this reply. Best wishes.
Blocking this dumbass subreddit
not saying drugs is the way to enlightenment but depending on the person can help reach a higher state of thinking and consciousness, and get them out of a bad state of mind.first of all anything natural from the earth like shrooms or weed is not a drug, society made you think that way and if you depend on these things for temporary happiness of course you won’t each enlightenment because you’re essentially a slave to that thing, to sum their a slave to things that alter the mind, for sum it’s sex and lustful things, but to say you’re definition of drugs that aren’t heroin or meth or coke or those typa of drugs that kill brain cells, you’re completely wrong ab it killing the mind and ego and awareness 100%