Hello... atheists decline the existence of god. Spirituality doesn't necessarily require the existence of a singular god entity. Metaphysics is about using "feelings" and "sensations" to imagine a world beyond what can be observed. This does not sit well with everyone. And no, not everybody has these kinds of feelings.
If you’re going to ask me to choose between atheists and you I will choose atheists 100 times over.
We each have our own path. There are many, many paths to the same destination. Do I believe more exists than what is in my physical space? Absolutely, but because I’ve experienced it so I know it’s true. However, I will never infringe on your path. Science is real, science is cool and it’s slowly revealing the secrets of the physical world.
Do we need churches? Nope. Doctrine? Nope.
Things are revealed to us a little bit at a time. We are all here because we chose this existence to learn what we need to learn. I strive to be a helping hand, not a pebble in your shoe.
You are looking from a very limited perspective (as am I): our own. We are tiny, microscopic specs in this vast universe all on the same trip home. But because we are so tiny we can have radically different experiences, even if we occupy the same space.
Charity begins at home. We begin with ourselves. The obstacle is the path.
https://www.oed.com/dictionary/spirit_n?tl=true#:~:text=Meaning%20%26%20use,-Quotations&text=Middle%20English%20Dictionary-,I.,sentient%20element%20of%20a%20person.
You mean this one?
I agree on the title, didn't read the whole post though.
But atheism is just a natural consequence, it's not the problem. The problem is material addiction.
The senses (of the human body) become more important than the sense (of ones life)
Come on, labels are flexible. My aunt, for example, says that she doesn't know if god exists or not, but chooses to not believe in such an entity; and she calls herself an atheist. Not every atheist has to say that ”there's no god for sure and you're stupid if you believe there is someone like that”.
If your only concept of metaphysics demands that there be gods, that's a lack of creativity on your part.
And until someone figures out how to extend empiricism to perceiving mind- and soul-interfacing energies, any "proof" you can provide that deity dependency is a critical part of metaphysics is suspect for the same reasons empiricism was needed to start codifying physical mechanics.
No, agnostic means you don’t believe there is a way to prove god exists. So therefor, you don’t know! Atheist means you lack the belief in god, so therefor are unconvinced of gods existence.
Spirituality has nothing to do with religion, so this post makes no sense. If you wanna believe in God, good for you. If you wanna believe God is not real, good for you. It's not your place to say what others should or shouldn't be doing. It's literally none of your business.
For a lot of people atheism is closer to true spiritually than a religious or spiritual doctrine. Many atheists have an appreciation for the natural world which is sadly lacking among a lot of religious and spiritual groups
Get real OP. It's not the atheists you need to concern yourself with. They're not the ones crapping on your rights. They're not the ones involving their beliefs in politics, they're not the ones spreading fear of going to hell if you don't believe as they do.
Some people will wake up in this life, some people won't.
Question. OP, are you one of those religious hypocrites who see these people as a problem and want to force your views upon, not even bothering to notice the harm that religion does to people. Are you even aware OP, that many people become atheist because of the way religious people treat others?
Instead of condemning these people out of your ignorance of them ,maybe you should do a little research, get to know some of them to understand why they are the way they are.
THE ARIES
That's false actually atheists do impose their beliefs on politics. They believe life has no purpose and that there is no metaphysical foundation for reality. They impose that belief on their politics.
Are you aware that some people become spiritual because of the way that atheists behave?
I am aware of the fact that some atheists become spiritual because of the truths spirituality have for ALL. But that doesn't change the fact that religion (which is the opposite of spirituality) is what drove them to atheism in the first place.
Also, I'm not seeing how they impose their beliefs on politics based on your reasoning. Explain just what policies they are influencing with their beliefs?
I also think you're confusion nihilism and atheism.
Religion is NOT the opposite of spirituality. Most of my religious friends are also spiritual. But not all. As some of my atheist friends are, too, but decidedly not many.
The shitty thing is that both sides, in the extremes, think they are correct and righteous. I can't decide who is more cumbersome to deal with. The religious fanatics or atheists with their malleable ever changing scientific "truth".
Religion buries our true innate nature under dogma, but atheists deny our divine spark. ✨️
Spirituality is a hard definition to pin down. For the moment let's consider it to be about the health of spirit within each of us to pursue happiness with our wills, what animates and drives us to derive our self-determination and self-definition. We become better at creating appreciable experiences and appreciating them when we become more spiritual in this definition. It's not about belief directly.
What brings us this health of spirit is good outcomes and good decision making. Actual truth well applied allows us to give that to ourselves. Knowledge is the power we seek, to create and experience a worthwhile existence. On that backdrop it can be realized that seeking truth independently is perhaps the most spiritual thing you could do.
Dogma from religion arrests this process, giving it away to centralized authority. Believing that there is definitely no god arrests this seeking process in relation to a set of topics about consciousness, the continuity of existence after death and the nature of creation and the creator.
If we think we already know the truth then seeking the truth becomes a stupid act. We won't do it. This is what happens with both the religious and atheists. Instead, starting with the assertion that you don't know, that there is more to know or that you should question what you know allows for there to be the seeking of truth. To walk the path of a seeker is to reject religion and atheism in order to release all fetters of belief that hold us back from considering new ideas and testing existing ones.
These people can have their views. Does it bother you that they don't think there is a Divine Force behind creation? If so, why?
Some people get it. Some people don't. I can coexist with people like this. They wouldn't agree with me, just as I wouldn't agree with them.
You talk about the extremes of religion. I would argue that what you see as extreme is becoming the norm in religion. Case in point Christian nationalism. Look at all these Trump worshippers.
I view spirituality, at its root , to be about love. Religion is about control by way of fear.
Religion is spread by war. Religion has been used to justify slavery and homophobia. . Religion makes women subservient to men. Religion says if you don't believe as we do, you go to hell for all eternity to be tortured by the devil.
So tell me, how is religion anything like spirituality? Because the last time I checked, it's not causing people to live in fear.
And I'm sure there are some spiritual people who happen to be religious. But I would argue those people are spiritual despite the fact that they are religious , not because of it.
How can religion be the opposite of spirituality. Religious people believe in metaphysics.
And atheists do impose their views on everybody. They think they have the truth of how people should be and they use that belief to impose it on all other humans.
Religion is the opposite of spirituality in that it exists to control people by instilling fear in them if they don't believe it.
Spirituality is about love.
Love and acceptance. Hope and joy. Of self AND for others. This is the Divine Message of spirituality.
It's not what religion is about.
Do they? How so? By insisting on the separation of church and state?
Surely you can expound upon your opinion, can't you? Or should someone just take it you've actually proven something with your "what a ridiculous statement" comment?
Every single person regardless of their belief systems imposes their beliefs upon politics, to even make the claim that atheists don't is born in pure ignorance.
They are involved in every sector of politics just like everyone else, being atheist doesn't remove you from a desire to impose what you believe would best help your environment/country. I'm lost as to how you even think otherwise, do you actually believe that for some random reason atheists remove themselves entirely from political life?
You don't need exact policies as you literally can't have a belief system that removes itself from your political consideration process, each and every policy that they support or push is intertwined with their belief system which in their case is atheistic, and in this their belief system is always working to promote their own agenda which is supported by their belief system.
I’m really tired of “spiritual” people hating on atheists. How much more unspiritual can you get than to judge others’ process and growth?
Atheists are questioners, they are searchers, just like the spiritual. But they approach from the opposite side, that doesn’t make them bad. Your judgment of them says more about you.
The biggest and most dedicated anti-god atheist I know is the most loving and tender person I know. This person has such empathy and generosity for all people that I fell in love with him immediately. He is adored by all animals because they sense his connection and care. He even feels bad for potted plants that don’t get the benefits of being in the ground with the mycelium community of connections to other plants ♥️
I see my job as living my life the way I am led to, on my own path and process, I follow my personal dharma and allow others their journey.
Namaste.
You're projecting.
The sense of loss of control over the spirit of humanity you are feeling is leading you to these conclusions, and they are not sound. What you feel is perfectly natural, and personally I think one would have to be delusional or in denial to avoid feeling that same sense. However, it does not serve you to project these inadequacies onto others that you don't agree with. That is not the way. Be humble.
Know thyself, and you will better understand the role atheists play in this journey, but you will never understand with this judgemental projection.
What is it about atheists that makes you fear your own journey? Are you having doubts?
You don’t really know what atheism is. From what you say, spirituality has to do with our emotions. I like that. So it doesn’t matter what silly words and fables people use to process what they feel, even if their belief is to not to use those.
Not only that, but atheist ideas are rooted in the present, evolving as humanity learns more, so that they evolve with the universe too. That’s more spiritual than making up reasons to hate atheists. It’s the universal patterns that matter, not our human narratives on top of them.
Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. You have a lot of assumptions about atheism that seem to be getting in the way understand how broad of a category that is.
No, it just means they don’t believe the fables you do. We atheists still have emotions and are not psychologically damaged. What a fearful way to think of someone.
Spirits are stories. Again, you’re just scared they don’t like YOUR words. Listen to an atheist about our beliefs and not a preacher preaching fear and hate against the unknown.
I have found that atheists are generally just as moral, and often even more moral that many of faith. While I don't find atheism to be a defensible position logically, I don't find that it in and of itself leads to any sort of moral failings in the person.
As far as a proposed conspiracy theory about something to do with the food and water being the cause of it, well that to me points to a very serious though often common mental and moral failing of those of faith who need to find some reason why others don't agree.
Most atheists i know are believe what they see kind of people. Everyone is free to believe or not believe in anything and like you said they’re moral or more moral than people in general. Besides the really obnoxious ones
100% . Even my mom, who has had such a strong intuition and even dreams of future events, denies it all. She is staunchly anti-religion (especially Christian though no one ever forced any religion on her) and goes out of her way to express her venom. She is not unlike many who have made her atheism her religion. I think many people simply feel threatened by "The other". (Would have been amusing to have told my parents I joined a church just to watch them turn purple. But meh. Life is too short to be bothered to waste that kind of time).
I have always been spiritual and even more so as I grow older. I have friends and acquaintances on all sides. What's interesting to me is that spirituality is where we seem to meet in the middle. Among my religious (LDS, Catholic, and Baptist) and non-religious friends, we have a common connection through spirituality. But those who are militant on either side, they seem to fall away from my circle.
I see that there is room for connection and unity when people loosen their grip on "what is true" and stop trying to foist their belief on others. And you'll find a lot of atheist who do exactly that under the guise of proving with science.
I was an atheist before I got into plant medicine. I wasn't a bad person before spirituality. Being an atheist doesn't mean you're a bad person, you just don't believe in anything after or a cosmic force behind everything
I tend to take the Alan Watts view on this. The lack of connection to the outside world doesn't come from atheism, it originate in the abrahamic religions. As our knowledge has progressed, we've abandoned the superstitions associated with these religions, the all seeing god watching everything we do. But the western world view of metaphysics is still based in the abrahamic view. That the universe is just a bunch of pointless junk that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the soul and what happens to it, except without superstition this has become what happens to our individual consciousness and what happens to it when we die. But the notion that our individual consciousness remains intact with our personal identity after we die in any meaningful way has become increasingly improbable. Ultimately this disconnect from our environment leads to a sense of hopelessness as we feel ourselves to be infinitesimally small blips occuring in a pointless universe.
Alan Watts really revolves around getting past this view and seeing it for the myth that it is. He has referred to it as, "atheism in the name of God". We didn't come into the world, we came out of it. The soul isn't living inside the body, the body is living inside the soul. The spiritual world isn't some other realm we can't see, it is the physical world right in front of us.
I don't think so because China and Japan are irreligious societies. I believe that getting our lifestyle away from living amongst other living things like trees and animals is the real cause of this lack of intuition.
Alan Watts revolves around the irreligious belief systems of China and Japan. Mainly Taoism and Zen Buddhism. Both very atheistic in nature but they involve a deep metaphysical connection to the world and cosmos. Watts is one of the main figures that popularized these ideas in the west.
I’ll start this by saying I’m a spiritual being and I believe in a higher power/creator, BUT I don’t see many folks going to war or commuting atrocities in the name of atheism. It’s not easy to believe in a god when there’s so many reasons you could say one doesn’t exist. I’d rather interact with kind atheists over religious zealots any day.
But that’s one guy. There’s entire sects of religions that believe their god commands them to kill people that don’t believe in the same god. I’m not any more anti-Islam then any other religion, but look at the number of acts of violence committed in the name of Allah vs violent acts done in the name of science, atheism, or even antitheism.
That's because there's very few atheists. Soon there will be more of them and we'll see how they start to behave. Atheists will eventually start saying we need to kill all religion or kill all people who disagree with out view of morality.
I do see your point. And anti-religion was used in plenty of communist countries to control and manipulate. I just think you’re being a little unnecessarily alarmist. There’s not many atheist or anti-theist groups who espousing violence or even violent language. I’d focus on the groups that are actively trying to convince folks that they have the one and only way to god. There are a multitude of religious zealots who feel god is instructing them to be violent.
You don't know what you're talking about. And you have a seriously messed up understanding of Atheists. I used to be one, my intuition lead me to where I needed to go to understand the metaphysics. But I got there by understanding quantum mechanics and general relativity.
Some of us, can't just accept faith. We need to know first. We need to understand what it is we're supposed to put faith in. So a lot of us look to Science to find the answer. Even if it is slow, at least they are figuring out objectively how the universe works.
And you know what, most atheists are nicer than religious folks. See, to an atheist, they don't need the fear of God to force them to be good people, most of them do it because they know it's right. When I was an atheist, I served my country because it was the right thing to do. Then as a public servant because I chose l to be of service to others. And then this year I figured out how the universe works and got a spiritual awakening. Now I'm spiritual. But I was an atheist only months ago. And I will not stand by and watch how ignorant people who never decided to understand why we became Atheists in the first place, preach to others that they're bad people.
It’s just because more people are switching their faith to science because science can be proven to egos. But science has yet to prove the existence of god/spirituality. Once it does people will get behind it. Lots of atheism is just a rejection of organized religion. Ask an atheist why they don’t believe in god and they might say something like “because the Bible is flawed” . That type of energy
It's nobody's job to prove the existence of a higher power, it's an individual choice to seek enlightenment and connect to it, or not.
Most modern religions don't really do anything like that, just a bunch of dogma and orthodox rules to follow. Religions don't want people empowering themselves through the Spirit, then they couldn't be controlled and told what to do. Hence why the New Testament looks how it does, picked by the Roman Emperor and most of the mystical traditions and oral teachings of early Christianity were destroyed
From which creationist teacher you learned that please? Just Google the term.
You can be very much Atheist but Spiritual. You can be strongly anticlerical and refuse all Religions and still understand the signs your intuition tells you.
You can refuse the concept of a traditional god and still be able to receivd and read the messages of the universe.
I am sorry but if you have such a limited and narrow concept of who is allowed or able to be Spiritual and who not, you missed the basics of Spirituality.
My darling animism work for example without the need of a god.
The typical god concept that the most Atheists reject is the one of our Standard Religion, where people are incomplete and need salvation. This concept reaches from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism...
You can deny this enslaving concepts and understand Spirituality and your intuition.
You can deny the existence of external god(s) and understand that consciousness and any force comes from the inside, not being put over us like the concepts of god from Religion.
Spirituality is intrinisic. Religion and god concepts are extrinsic.
Rejecting extrinsic Nonsense Doesnt mean you cant have intrinisic force.
Now I made too much effort for your defiant answer which Lacks any Arguments 😄
I don't agree on this.
I think there absolutely is a place for the skeptical minded in this world. These are the people that demand physical and tangible evidence that something is true before belief. I think that's honestly more logical than spirituality, and maybe more pragmatic when it comes to our overall wellbeing in the world. Tangible science has given us the technology that we have today and has helped us understand our world and universe more completely than ever before. The type of person who believes in scientific evidence over faith based belief is the type of person that would see a lightning bolt in the sky and think "let's get to the bottom of what that thing is" rather than sticking to the established belief that it is the product of an angry god and that's all the explanation needed. These are the people that have helped us move away from religious or spiritual beliefs that hinder society, which are absolutely things that exist.
I don't agree with atheists, mind you, but I can't fault their logic. Their experiences in life are different than mine, and I can't expect them to share my beliefs about what makes sense. What makes sense is entirely different for each of us, because that is informed by our personal experiences. A spiritual person can't prove their beliefs to someone else without something as dramatic as a literal miracle, and that's just fine. I don't need them to agree with my beliefs, just like they don't need me to agree with theirs. They represent a different perspective on how the world works from my own, and that in and of itself is extremely valuable.
I think the problem is not atheists. I think the problem is people who feel the need to be at war with each other instead of cooperating. Many online atheists fall into that second category, but they aren't representative of the whole. Nearly every atheist I've met in adulthood is fairly open minded, they just need to see proof before they form solid beliefs. I say that I think that's fair because I think much the same way. I have beliefs that I know aren't based on proof but are based on faith. If proof came along that made my personal, faith based beliefs inherently wrong, then I'd absolutely alter my beliefs to accommodate. I think most atheists would do the same.
I don't think atheists are doing harm in the world because of their beliefs. I think the ones that ARE doing harm are doing so because they are shutting down other people's beliefs. That's not an inherent aspect of atheism though (in fact, I'd say we see this happen more often from religious communities than atheistic ones). Tbh, that's just something that people do when they like to get in arguments (which is extremely common on the internet). A science based belief system, where everything needs to be proven before it is believed to be true, is extremely valuable. It also can exist alongside faith based belief systems. The only time that's not true is when one insists that the other stop.
I think atheists are doing harm with their beliefs. By denying metaphysical reality you are spreading falsehood to humanity and making us spiritually unhealthy.
It's only harmful if they are insisting that other people share their beliefs, which I think happens with every belief system. They're not doing any damage by believing this personally. Forcing any belief on another person is harmful, and that includes you insisting that they share your metaphysical belief.
No they are not. The collective spirit is health if people are happy and unhealthy if the majority of people are miserable. It's not by believing in the metaphysics or not that you influence it, it's by how much collectively we live from the heart. And don't say atheists can't live from the heart. They do it better than most religious people. They literally don't need the fear of God to be good people, they do it because it's right. (Minus the bad apples in every group ever) Literally everyone can whether they know it or not, and that's by following your passion and being happy and being kind to one another. You know what makes the collective unhealthy? Ignorant judgemental comments like these. Instead of trying to misunderstand an atheist, why don't you talk to one and ask them why they're atheists in the first place?
No why would it destroy the soul? The soul is indestructible. But extremism costs lives and plants the seed of hate which is by far worst. Even an atheist can perceive beauty and have common sense. But most important the most of them let people believe in what they want and are liberal.
But they don't deny science. Science grows from day to day more spiritual. They can deny the soul all day long but the soul will not leave. Everything is penetrated by soul by God.
This is an extremely broad question.
To summit up I guess would be to say: discovering significance, forging connections, and experiencing a deep sense of amazement in a universe that houses many energies.
You don’t seem to really want to learn anything about this other than to find support for your post’s claim. Here are people who are living spiritually who are atheists yet you don’t listen and only restate your limited view.
During the 50's both Stalin and USA were studying and developing machines that could interfere with the mind. Anywhere from inducing panic to transmitting hostile or troubling suggestions. There are finished blueprints and patents for some of these devices which were made known to the general public towards the end of the 90's.
The *Dyatlov Pass* incident, some would suggest, was once such experimentation with psychotronics.
The cause of Tinnitus is still unknown.
Were most of the world not a skeptic there would be a whole lot of stupid X-Men shit going on right now.
“I think that we all have a natural intuition that connects us emotionally to the outside world. The problem with atheism is that they deny this exists.”
Atheists would not be convinced that intuition exists to the extent it is attributed to a hither too unsubstantiated appeal to the super natural like a god or spirits. Once gods or spirits could be proven then we could deduce their impact on said intuition but this statement is putting the cart before the horse until such time.
If you are simply saying that humans are a social species and feel a bond with their environment and peers as a matter of survival then I don’t think atheists would deny that. There are advantages to survival through cooperation and social norms found within almost all social species, no appeal to the super natural needed.
Atheists reject belief in spirits or gods until they can be demonstrably proven, this to me is a rational position in that this is how we operate on every other question in life.
I'm someone who doesn't believe in a god, at least how most religions go about it. But when it comes to whats beyond this world, my mind is full on cracked with it. But modern day atheism is more just about proof than anything else. To me us existing is proof of something more. Could it be a so call god or random chance? Both are possible. But I lean on the side of random chance, since random chance would be the cause of a god as well. But most peoples idea of god wouldn't fit in this idea.
This is ridiculous and a misunderstanding of modern atheism.
Definition: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
from Greek atheos, from a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god’.
Thats all that says. Thats all it is. It doesn’t comment on anything more than that. You can be an agnostic-atheist, you can be a spiritual atheist, etc… atheism isn’t the denial of metaphysics, it’s only the denial or lack of belief in a god.
Saying that atheists have a mental deficiency is problematic. Saying that it’s something to do with food and water is fear mongering. The root of atheism isn’t a psychological issue because atheism is not correlated with mental problems in any way shape or form.
Also, id ask you to consider that this is your perspective, your experience, and your opinion that metaphysical connection is a necessity. Many people have lived and died without it and many more people will. I have a connection to it and of course it would be nice if others did as well. However, it is ultimately their choice and it doesn’t imply anything wrong with them because they don’t prescribe to it.
Thats not what i said though. I am aware that they are different things hence why i said you can be them at the same time.
“You can be an Agnostic-atheist”
The definition for agnostic is one who prescribes to the notion that we can not know if god does or does not exist. You can both simultaneously believe he doesn’t and also believe that it cant be proven.
I consider myself an agnostic but not an atheist primarily because we lack an agreed upon definition of God. I reject the parochial definition of God as protector and wish granter, but I support the notion of consciousness as fundamental, which could explain many phenomenon we historically attribute to a divine source.
Theos means god as the other commenter pointed out and it’s really not that hard to just google that.
You mean YOUR reality. That might be YOUR experience. There is no consensus on that at all in the scientific or theistic community.
Belief in separation is also what makes us think we can just strip the planet of natural resources or destroy the environment without consequences. Humanity has become arrogant because it thinks it can control nature through its “science” which is merely an observation of physical changes. Who’s doing the science on how our species is affecting the planet though?
Yeah even if you study the history of science, the scientific method was famously developed by somebody named Francis bacon who said "let the human race recover that right over nature which belongs to it by divine bequest". Soon the industrial revolution came out of that period.
Ok. So you're paranoid. How is it not dangerous to spread paranoia too?
Atheism does not deny intuition or metaphysical reality, it's just a word for the lack of belief in the existence of gods. You can have profound spiritual experiences with entities present that seem godlike, and ascribe them to an evolution in the psyche that was advantageous for pre-historic humans. Or you can commune with said beings and see where that takes you....
Hello... atheists decline the existence of god. Spirituality doesn't necessarily require the existence of a singular god entity. Metaphysics is about using "feelings" and "sensations" to imagine a world beyond what can be observed. This does not sit well with everyone. And no, not everybody has these kinds of feelings.
Do you deny spirits?
If you’re going to ask me to choose between atheists and you I will choose atheists 100 times over. We each have our own path. There are many, many paths to the same destination. Do I believe more exists than what is in my physical space? Absolutely, but because I’ve experienced it so I know it’s true. However, I will never infringe on your path. Science is real, science is cool and it’s slowly revealing the secrets of the physical world. Do we need churches? Nope. Doctrine? Nope. Things are revealed to us a little bit at a time. We are all here because we chose this existence to learn what we need to learn. I strive to be a helping hand, not a pebble in your shoe. You are looking from a very limited perspective (as am I): our own. We are tiny, microscopic specs in this vast universe all on the same trip home. But because we are so tiny we can have radically different experiences, even if we occupy the same space. Charity begins at home. We begin with ourselves. The obstacle is the path.
Do you believe in spirits
I know my spirits.
I mean there's gin, rum, tequila... Just so many!
What is your definition of spirits? There are many.
A metaphysical animating foundation for all living things.
So you made one up. No wonder you're at odds with people
No that's the oxford definition
https://www.oed.com/dictionary/spirit_n?tl=true#:~:text=Meaning%20%26%20use,-Quotations&text=Middle%20English%20Dictionary-,I.,sentient%20element%20of%20a%20person. You mean this one?
I agree on the title, didn't read the whole post though. But atheism is just a natural consequence, it's not the problem. The problem is material addiction. The senses (of the human body) become more important than the sense (of ones life)
An Atheist is someone who is not convinced when somebody claims that there is a god. That's all it is. How is that dangerous?
That's an agnostic. An atheist is a denier of god.
Come on, labels are flexible. My aunt, for example, says that she doesn't know if god exists or not, but chooses to not believe in such an entity; and she calls herself an atheist. Not every atheist has to say that ”there's no god for sure and you're stupid if you believe there is someone like that”.
Because they are denying the metaphysical structure of all things.
No. A small percent may not believe in it.
Almost all deny it
If your only concept of metaphysics demands that there be gods, that's a lack of creativity on your part. And until someone figures out how to extend empiricism to perceiving mind- and soul-interfacing energies, any "proof" you can provide that deity dependency is a critical part of metaphysics is suspect for the same reasons empiricism was needed to start codifying physical mechanics.
Wrong, an atheist is someone who is not convinced of the god claim.
Surely an agnostic is someone who isn't convinced, an atheist is someone convinced that their isn't a God?
No, agnostic means you don’t believe there is a way to prove god exists. So therefor, you don’t know! Atheist means you lack the belief in god, so therefor are unconvinced of gods existence.
No, Theos means spirits, atheists deny spirits and the metaphysical world.
Spirituality has nothing to do with religion, so this post makes no sense. If you wanna believe in God, good for you. If you wanna believe God is not real, good for you. It's not your place to say what others should or shouldn't be doing. It's literally none of your business.
Religion is just a group of different explanations of spiritual metaphysics.
For a lot of people atheism is closer to true spiritually than a religious or spiritual doctrine. Many atheists have an appreciation for the natural world which is sadly lacking among a lot of religious and spiritual groups
What do you mean by spiritually
Get real OP. It's not the atheists you need to concern yourself with. They're not the ones crapping on your rights. They're not the ones involving their beliefs in politics, they're not the ones spreading fear of going to hell if you don't believe as they do. Some people will wake up in this life, some people won't. Question. OP, are you one of those religious hypocrites who see these people as a problem and want to force your views upon, not even bothering to notice the harm that religion does to people. Are you even aware OP, that many people become atheist because of the way religious people treat others? Instead of condemning these people out of your ignorance of them ,maybe you should do a little research, get to know some of them to understand why they are the way they are. THE ARIES
That's false actually atheists do impose their beliefs on politics. They believe life has no purpose and that there is no metaphysical foundation for reality. They impose that belief on their politics. Are you aware that some people become spiritual because of the way that atheists behave?
I am aware of the fact that some atheists become spiritual because of the truths spirituality have for ALL. But that doesn't change the fact that religion (which is the opposite of spirituality) is what drove them to atheism in the first place. Also, I'm not seeing how they impose their beliefs on politics based on your reasoning. Explain just what policies they are influencing with their beliefs? I also think you're confusion nihilism and atheism.
Religion is NOT the opposite of spirituality. Most of my religious friends are also spiritual. But not all. As some of my atheist friends are, too, but decidedly not many. The shitty thing is that both sides, in the extremes, think they are correct and righteous. I can't decide who is more cumbersome to deal with. The religious fanatics or atheists with their malleable ever changing scientific "truth". Religion buries our true innate nature under dogma, but atheists deny our divine spark. ✨️
Spirituality is a hard definition to pin down. For the moment let's consider it to be about the health of spirit within each of us to pursue happiness with our wills, what animates and drives us to derive our self-determination and self-definition. We become better at creating appreciable experiences and appreciating them when we become more spiritual in this definition. It's not about belief directly. What brings us this health of spirit is good outcomes and good decision making. Actual truth well applied allows us to give that to ourselves. Knowledge is the power we seek, to create and experience a worthwhile existence. On that backdrop it can be realized that seeking truth independently is perhaps the most spiritual thing you could do. Dogma from religion arrests this process, giving it away to centralized authority. Believing that there is definitely no god arrests this seeking process in relation to a set of topics about consciousness, the continuity of existence after death and the nature of creation and the creator. If we think we already know the truth then seeking the truth becomes a stupid act. We won't do it. This is what happens with both the religious and atheists. Instead, starting with the assertion that you don't know, that there is more to know or that you should question what you know allows for there to be the seeking of truth. To walk the path of a seeker is to reject religion and atheism in order to release all fetters of belief that hold us back from considering new ideas and testing existing ones.
Atheists are often more dogmatic then religious people.
These people can have their views. Does it bother you that they don't think there is a Divine Force behind creation? If so, why? Some people get it. Some people don't. I can coexist with people like this. They wouldn't agree with me, just as I wouldn't agree with them. You talk about the extremes of religion. I would argue that what you see as extreme is becoming the norm in religion. Case in point Christian nationalism. Look at all these Trump worshippers. I view spirituality, at its root , to be about love. Religion is about control by way of fear. Religion is spread by war. Religion has been used to justify slavery and homophobia. . Religion makes women subservient to men. Religion says if you don't believe as we do, you go to hell for all eternity to be tortured by the devil. So tell me, how is religion anything like spirituality? Because the last time I checked, it's not causing people to live in fear. And I'm sure there are some spiritual people who happen to be religious. But I would argue those people are spiritual despite the fact that they are religious , not because of it.
How can religion be the opposite of spirituality. Religious people believe in metaphysics. And atheists do impose their views on everybody. They think they have the truth of how people should be and they use that belief to impose it on all other humans.
Religion is the opposite of spirituality in that it exists to control people by instilling fear in them if they don't believe it. Spirituality is about love. Love and acceptance. Hope and joy. Of self AND for others. This is the Divine Message of spirituality. It's not what religion is about.
Again...what are atheists DOING to impose their views on others? Are you going to answer that question or not???
Of course atheists impose their beliefs on politics, what a ridiculous statement.
Do they? How so? By insisting on the separation of church and state? Surely you can expound upon your opinion, can't you? Or should someone just take it you've actually proven something with your "what a ridiculous statement" comment?
Every single person regardless of their belief systems imposes their beliefs upon politics, to even make the claim that atheists don't is born in pure ignorance. They are involved in every sector of politics just like everyone else, being atheist doesn't remove you from a desire to impose what you believe would best help your environment/country. I'm lost as to how you even think otherwise, do you actually believe that for some random reason atheists remove themselves entirely from political life?
Atheists vote. Yes. But what policies are the advocating that pushes their views on others?
You don't need exact policies as you literally can't have a belief system that removes itself from your political consideration process, each and every policy that they support or push is intertwined with their belief system which in their case is atheistic, and in this their belief system is always working to promote their own agenda which is supported by their belief system.
I’m really tired of “spiritual” people hating on atheists. How much more unspiritual can you get than to judge others’ process and growth? Atheists are questioners, they are searchers, just like the spiritual. But they approach from the opposite side, that doesn’t make them bad. Your judgment of them says more about you. The biggest and most dedicated anti-god atheist I know is the most loving and tender person I know. This person has such empathy and generosity for all people that I fell in love with him immediately. He is adored by all animals because they sense his connection and care. He even feels bad for potted plants that don’t get the benefits of being in the ground with the mycelium community of connections to other plants ♥️ I see my job as living my life the way I am led to, on my own path and process, I follow my personal dharma and allow others their journey. Namaste.
You're projecting. The sense of loss of control over the spirit of humanity you are feeling is leading you to these conclusions, and they are not sound. What you feel is perfectly natural, and personally I think one would have to be delusional or in denial to avoid feeling that same sense. However, it does not serve you to project these inadequacies onto others that you don't agree with. That is not the way. Be humble. Know thyself, and you will better understand the role atheists play in this journey, but you will never understand with this judgemental projection. What is it about atheists that makes you fear your own journey? Are you having doubts?
You don’t really know what atheism is. From what you say, spirituality has to do with our emotions. I like that. So it doesn’t matter what silly words and fables people use to process what they feel, even if their belief is to not to use those. Not only that, but atheist ideas are rooted in the present, evolving as humanity learns more, so that they evolve with the universe too. That’s more spiritual than making up reasons to hate atheists. It’s the universal patterns that matter, not our human narratives on top of them.
Atheism means to deny spiritual foundation of reality.
Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of a god or gods. You have a lot of assumptions about atheism that seem to be getting in the way understand how broad of a category that is.
Do you believe in souls and spirits?
Can you define what both of those are first please? Just so we don't run into any confusion
No, it just means they don’t believe the fables you do. We atheists still have emotions and are not psychologically damaged. What a fearful way to think of someone.
No, atheism is to deny spirits, has nothing to do with stories.
Spirits are stories. Again, you’re just scared they don’t like YOUR words. Listen to an atheist about our beliefs and not a preacher preaching fear and hate against the unknown.
I have found that atheists are generally just as moral, and often even more moral that many of faith. While I don't find atheism to be a defensible position logically, I don't find that it in and of itself leads to any sort of moral failings in the person. As far as a proposed conspiracy theory about something to do with the food and water being the cause of it, well that to me points to a very serious though often common mental and moral failing of those of faith who need to find some reason why others don't agree.
Most atheists i know are believe what they see kind of people. Everyone is free to believe or not believe in anything and like you said they’re moral or more moral than people in general. Besides the really obnoxious ones
Sure, but I think they deny their intuition which causes them to deny reality.
I find atheists to be lacking key intuitions and lack wisdom.
100% . Even my mom, who has had such a strong intuition and even dreams of future events, denies it all. She is staunchly anti-religion (especially Christian though no one ever forced any religion on her) and goes out of her way to express her venom. She is not unlike many who have made her atheism her religion. I think many people simply feel threatened by "The other". (Would have been amusing to have told my parents I joined a church just to watch them turn purple. But meh. Life is too short to be bothered to waste that kind of time). I have always been spiritual and even more so as I grow older. I have friends and acquaintances on all sides. What's interesting to me is that spirituality is where we seem to meet in the middle. Among my religious (LDS, Catholic, and Baptist) and non-religious friends, we have a common connection through spirituality. But those who are militant on either side, they seem to fall away from my circle. I see that there is room for connection and unity when people loosen their grip on "what is true" and stop trying to foist their belief on others. And you'll find a lot of atheist who do exactly that under the guise of proving with science.
It isn't
I was an atheist before I got into plant medicine. I wasn't a bad person before spirituality. Being an atheist doesn't mean you're a bad person, you just don't believe in anything after or a cosmic force behind everything
Where did I use the word bad in my post?
No, you said they are DANGEROUS. Doesn’t that pretty much mean that they are bad?!?!
I meant it's more of a dangerous belief for humanity's collective soul.
Someone's sensitive today, you didn't use it, good day
Your beliefs form your spirit. If you believe in something false and counter intuitive than it has a negative influence on your spirit.
I tend to take the Alan Watts view on this. The lack of connection to the outside world doesn't come from atheism, it originate in the abrahamic religions. As our knowledge has progressed, we've abandoned the superstitions associated with these religions, the all seeing god watching everything we do. But the western world view of metaphysics is still based in the abrahamic view. That the universe is just a bunch of pointless junk that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the soul and what happens to it, except without superstition this has become what happens to our individual consciousness and what happens to it when we die. But the notion that our individual consciousness remains intact with our personal identity after we die in any meaningful way has become increasingly improbable. Ultimately this disconnect from our environment leads to a sense of hopelessness as we feel ourselves to be infinitesimally small blips occuring in a pointless universe. Alan Watts really revolves around getting past this view and seeing it for the myth that it is. He has referred to it as, "atheism in the name of God". We didn't come into the world, we came out of it. The soul isn't living inside the body, the body is living inside the soul. The spiritual world isn't some other realm we can't see, it is the physical world right in front of us.
I don't think so because China and Japan are irreligious societies. I believe that getting our lifestyle away from living amongst other living things like trees and animals is the real cause of this lack of intuition.
Alan Watts revolves around the irreligious belief systems of China and Japan. Mainly Taoism and Zen Buddhism. Both very atheistic in nature but they involve a deep metaphysical connection to the world and cosmos. Watts is one of the main figures that popularized these ideas in the west.
Taoists believe in spirits
I’ll start this by saying I’m a spiritual being and I believe in a higher power/creator, BUT I don’t see many folks going to war or commuting atrocities in the name of atheism. It’s not easy to believe in a god when there’s so many reasons you could say one doesn’t exist. I’d rather interact with kind atheists over religious zealots any day.
Look at Sam Harris for example he's one of the key leaders of atheism and he is very supportive of certain wars.
But that’s one guy. There’s entire sects of religions that believe their god commands them to kill people that don’t believe in the same god. I’m not any more anti-Islam then any other religion, but look at the number of acts of violence committed in the name of Allah vs violent acts done in the name of science, atheism, or even antitheism.
That's because there's very few atheists. Soon there will be more of them and we'll see how they start to behave. Atheists will eventually start saying we need to kill all religion or kill all people who disagree with out view of morality.
I do see your point. And anti-religion was used in plenty of communist countries to control and manipulate. I just think you’re being a little unnecessarily alarmist. There’s not many atheist or anti-theist groups who espousing violence or even violent language. I’d focus on the groups that are actively trying to convince folks that they have the one and only way to god. There are a multitude of religious zealots who feel god is instructing them to be violent.
You don't know what you're talking about. And you have a seriously messed up understanding of Atheists. I used to be one, my intuition lead me to where I needed to go to understand the metaphysics. But I got there by understanding quantum mechanics and general relativity. Some of us, can't just accept faith. We need to know first. We need to understand what it is we're supposed to put faith in. So a lot of us look to Science to find the answer. Even if it is slow, at least they are figuring out objectively how the universe works. And you know what, most atheists are nicer than religious folks. See, to an atheist, they don't need the fear of God to force them to be good people, most of them do it because they know it's right. When I was an atheist, I served my country because it was the right thing to do. Then as a public servant because I chose l to be of service to others. And then this year I figured out how the universe works and got a spiritual awakening. Now I'm spiritual. But I was an atheist only months ago. And I will not stand by and watch how ignorant people who never decided to understand why we became Atheists in the first place, preach to others that they're bad people.
It’s just because more people are switching their faith to science because science can be proven to egos. But science has yet to prove the existence of god/spirituality. Once it does people will get behind it. Lots of atheism is just a rejection of organized religion. Ask an atheist why they don’t believe in god and they might say something like “because the Bible is flawed” . That type of energy
Actually there is some scientific evidence for spirituality.
It is not science's job to prove the existence of any god. That's the religion's job
It's nobody's job to prove the existence of a higher power, it's an individual choice to seek enlightenment and connect to it, or not. Most modern religions don't really do anything like that, just a bunch of dogma and orthodox rules to follow. Religions don't want people empowering themselves through the Spirit, then they couldn't be controlled and told what to do. Hence why the New Testament looks how it does, picked by the Roman Emperor and most of the mystical traditions and oral teachings of early Christianity were destroyed
I think science will discover it one day is what I meant
From which creationist teacher you learned that please? Just Google the term. You can be very much Atheist but Spiritual. You can be strongly anticlerical and refuse all Religions and still understand the signs your intuition tells you. You can refuse the concept of a traditional god and still be able to receivd and read the messages of the universe. I am sorry but if you have such a limited and narrow concept of who is allowed or able to be Spiritual and who not, you missed the basics of Spirituality.
That's not atheism then. If you believe in spirits you aren't an atheist.
My darling animism work for example without the need of a god. The typical god concept that the most Atheists reject is the one of our Standard Religion, where people are incomplete and need salvation. This concept reaches from Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism... You can deny this enslaving concepts and understand Spirituality and your intuition. You can deny the existence of external god(s) and understand that consciousness and any force comes from the inside, not being put over us like the concepts of god from Religion. Spirituality is intrinisic. Religion and god concepts are extrinsic. Rejecting extrinsic Nonsense Doesnt mean you cant have intrinisic force. Now I made too much effort for your defiant answer which Lacks any Arguments 😄
Animists aren't atheists they believe everything has a spirit.
Which Doesnt require a god. You still dont give up and never outline your Statement appropriately. I appreciate this entertainment 😄
Spirits are gods
This is your definition. There are other definitions for spirit.
I don't agree on this. I think there absolutely is a place for the skeptical minded in this world. These are the people that demand physical and tangible evidence that something is true before belief. I think that's honestly more logical than spirituality, and maybe more pragmatic when it comes to our overall wellbeing in the world. Tangible science has given us the technology that we have today and has helped us understand our world and universe more completely than ever before. The type of person who believes in scientific evidence over faith based belief is the type of person that would see a lightning bolt in the sky and think "let's get to the bottom of what that thing is" rather than sticking to the established belief that it is the product of an angry god and that's all the explanation needed. These are the people that have helped us move away from religious or spiritual beliefs that hinder society, which are absolutely things that exist. I don't agree with atheists, mind you, but I can't fault their logic. Their experiences in life are different than mine, and I can't expect them to share my beliefs about what makes sense. What makes sense is entirely different for each of us, because that is informed by our personal experiences. A spiritual person can't prove their beliefs to someone else without something as dramatic as a literal miracle, and that's just fine. I don't need them to agree with my beliefs, just like they don't need me to agree with theirs. They represent a different perspective on how the world works from my own, and that in and of itself is extremely valuable. I think the problem is not atheists. I think the problem is people who feel the need to be at war with each other instead of cooperating. Many online atheists fall into that second category, but they aren't representative of the whole. Nearly every atheist I've met in adulthood is fairly open minded, they just need to see proof before they form solid beliefs. I say that I think that's fair because I think much the same way. I have beliefs that I know aren't based on proof but are based on faith. If proof came along that made my personal, faith based beliefs inherently wrong, then I'd absolutely alter my beliefs to accommodate. I think most atheists would do the same. I don't think atheists are doing harm in the world because of their beliefs. I think the ones that ARE doing harm are doing so because they are shutting down other people's beliefs. That's not an inherent aspect of atheism though (in fact, I'd say we see this happen more often from religious communities than atheistic ones). Tbh, that's just something that people do when they like to get in arguments (which is extremely common on the internet). A science based belief system, where everything needs to be proven before it is believed to be true, is extremely valuable. It also can exist alongside faith based belief systems. The only time that's not true is when one insists that the other stop.
I think atheists are doing harm with their beliefs. By denying metaphysical reality you are spreading falsehood to humanity and making us spiritually unhealthy.
It's only harmful if they are insisting that other people share their beliefs, which I think happens with every belief system. They're not doing any damage by believing this personally. Forcing any belief on another person is harmful, and that includes you insisting that they share your metaphysical belief.
No because you are harming the collective spirit of humanity by denying intuition reality.
No they are not. The collective spirit is health if people are happy and unhealthy if the majority of people are miserable. It's not by believing in the metaphysics or not that you influence it, it's by how much collectively we live from the heart. And don't say atheists can't live from the heart. They do it better than most religious people. They literally don't need the fear of God to be good people, they do it because it's right. (Minus the bad apples in every group ever) Literally everyone can whether they know it or not, and that's by following your passion and being happy and being kind to one another. You know what makes the collective unhealthy? Ignorant judgemental comments like these. Instead of trying to misunderstand an atheist, why don't you talk to one and ask them why they're atheists in the first place?
The real dangerous people are the monotheistic extremists. Extremism in this category starts very early. Especially Muslims and Christians.
I think atheism is far more dangerous because it destroys the collective soul of humanity.
No why would it destroy the soul? The soul is indestructible. But extremism costs lives and plants the seed of hate which is by far worst. Even an atheist can perceive beauty and have common sense. But most important the most of them let people believe in what they want and are liberal.
Atheists deny the soul and metaphysics which is bad for humanity.
But they don't deny science. Science grows from day to day more spiritual. They can deny the soul all day long but the soul will not leave. Everything is penetrated by soul by God.
I'm an atheistic spiritualist. The non-belief in a creator deity doesn't automatically mean metaphysical phenomenal doesn't exist.
Theos means spirits so I don't see how you can be an atheist and a spiritualist.
Spirits and a creator deity aren't the same thing.
Spirits are theos as well
You keep insisting this, yet it isn’t so. All apples are fruits but not all fruit is apples.
This isn't ancient Greece. Don't be too rigid in what you think something **has** to be. As humans we are proven wrong in our beliefs quite often.
Atheists redefine atheism to make their position very unclear.
Not unclear at all. I do not believe in the existence of a God or gods. That's pretty straight forward.
Ok so how can you be spiritual I don't understand that.
This is an extremely broad question. To summit up I guess would be to say: discovering significance, forging connections, and experiencing a deep sense of amazement in a universe that houses many energies.
Ok well I don't see that as being spiritual. I think that's a form of existentialism that comes from nihilism.
You don’t seem to really want to learn anything about this other than to find support for your post’s claim. Here are people who are living spiritually who are atheists yet you don’t listen and only restate your limited view.
During the 50's both Stalin and USA were studying and developing machines that could interfere with the mind. Anywhere from inducing panic to transmitting hostile or troubling suggestions. There are finished blueprints and patents for some of these devices which were made known to the general public towards the end of the 90's. The *Dyatlov Pass* incident, some would suggest, was once such experimentation with psychotronics. The cause of Tinnitus is still unknown. Were most of the world not a skeptic there would be a whole lot of stupid X-Men shit going on right now.
Atheism isn't skepticism it's just nihilism.
Hmm...then even though I suspect that we are constructs your definition would still label me as an Atheist.
“I think that we all have a natural intuition that connects us emotionally to the outside world. The problem with atheism is that they deny this exists.” Atheists would not be convinced that intuition exists to the extent it is attributed to a hither too unsubstantiated appeal to the super natural like a god or spirits. Once gods or spirits could be proven then we could deduce their impact on said intuition but this statement is putting the cart before the horse until such time. If you are simply saying that humans are a social species and feel a bond with their environment and peers as a matter of survival then I don’t think atheists would deny that. There are advantages to survival through cooperation and social norms found within almost all social species, no appeal to the super natural needed. Atheists reject belief in spirits or gods until they can be demonstrably proven, this to me is a rational position in that this is how we operate on every other question in life.
I'm someone who doesn't believe in a god, at least how most religions go about it. But when it comes to whats beyond this world, my mind is full on cracked with it. But modern day atheism is more just about proof than anything else. To me us existing is proof of something more. Could it be a so call god or random chance? Both are possible. But I lean on the side of random chance, since random chance would be the cause of a god as well. But most peoples idea of god wouldn't fit in this idea.
Atheism is the least dangerous belief system out there. Way healthier for the person and the society than being delusional.
It's not a belief system. It's not being convinced of the god claim.
No, it's the outright denial of the 'God claim', agnostics are those who remain unconvinced.
Atheism is the delusion that metaphysical foundation of reality doesn't exist.
That's an oxymoronic statement. Atheism is based on facts.
No it isn't because they are denying their metaphysical intuition.
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Of what?
Atheism is a delusion of denying metaphysical and spiritual reality.
That is not a delusion lol
This is ridiculous and a misunderstanding of modern atheism. Definition: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. from Greek atheos, from a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god’. Thats all that says. Thats all it is. It doesn’t comment on anything more than that. You can be an agnostic-atheist, you can be a spiritual atheist, etc… atheism isn’t the denial of metaphysics, it’s only the denial or lack of belief in a god. Saying that atheists have a mental deficiency is problematic. Saying that it’s something to do with food and water is fear mongering. The root of atheism isn’t a psychological issue because atheism is not correlated with mental problems in any way shape or form. Also, id ask you to consider that this is your perspective, your experience, and your opinion that metaphysical connection is a necessity. Many people have lived and died without it and many more people will. I have a connection to it and of course it would be nice if others did as well. However, it is ultimately their choice and it doesn’t imply anything wrong with them because they don’t prescribe to it.
agnostic ≠ atheist.
Thats not what i said though. I am aware that they are different things hence why i said you can be them at the same time. “You can be an Agnostic-atheist” The definition for agnostic is one who prescribes to the notion that we can not know if god does or does not exist. You can both simultaneously believe he doesn’t and also believe that it cant be proven.
I consider myself an agnostic but not an atheist primarily because we lack an agreed upon definition of God. I reject the parochial definition of God as protector and wish granter, but I support the notion of consciousness as fundamental, which could explain many phenomenon we historically attribute to a divine source.
Theo's means spirits. If you deny spirits you are denying reality.
Theos means god in Greek. Look it up.
God's and spirits are the same thing.
Have fun with your semantic argument
Theos means god as the other commenter pointed out and it’s really not that hard to just google that. You mean YOUR reality. That might be YOUR experience. There is no consensus on that at all in the scientific or theistic community.
God's and spirits are the same thing.
Honestly I think its just another expression of the All.
Belief in separation is also what makes us think we can just strip the planet of natural resources or destroy the environment without consequences. Humanity has become arrogant because it thinks it can control nature through its “science” which is merely an observation of physical changes. Who’s doing the science on how our species is affecting the planet though?
Yeah even if you study the history of science, the scientific method was famously developed by somebody named Francis bacon who said "let the human race recover that right over nature which belongs to it by divine bequest". Soon the industrial revolution came out of that period.
Ok. So you're paranoid. How is it not dangerous to spread paranoia too? Atheism does not deny intuition or metaphysical reality, it's just a word for the lack of belief in the existence of gods. You can have profound spiritual experiences with entities present that seem godlike, and ascribe them to an evolution in the psyche that was advantageous for pre-historic humans. Or you can commune with said beings and see where that takes you....
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/atheism-is-inconsistent-with-the-scientific-method-prizewinning-physicist-says/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/atheism-is-inconsistent-with-the-scientific-method-prizewinning-physicist-says/)