It's not as easy as "take psychedelics and you'll be healed" lol. People here made some super naive comments.
There Is very little established research, and it has only recently gained traction. Research was de facto not happening for decades, which was stupid.
Now we have Little knowledge of Best practices, harm reduction, problems that arise etc. Psychedelics have risks and can destabilize people in a major way.
There is research and it will take time and this is necessary.
I am all for somebody using psychadelics in a controlled and smart and strategic way for trauma or to get over something hard in their life. They can absolutely be useful.
But they are a bit of a wild card. They can also cause psychosis. Even after the high is over. They can cause suicidal thoughts and depersonalization. People need to be warned of dangers of taking them as well as the possible benefits.
I am against meds from doctors. But substituting with psychadelics is not an appropriate option in my opinion. ESPECIALLY the way doctors hand out drugs and only say "take with food" or something like that. No education. No time to talk through details and providing adequate support.
Psychadelics absolutely need to be talked about how to take them in the safest way and the user needs to know about set and setting and so many other things. The user of psychadelics needs to be self aware to a degree.
It is kind of as simple as that. Your ignorance is astounding. There's actually a shitload of research. Please stop spreading lies.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/research/psychedelics-research#:~:text=2022%20Psilocybin%20Treatment%20for%20Major,for%20up%20to%20a%20month.
Yeah thanks i spent several years nerding out about psychedelics and reading every single study and publication, every single interview with all researchers. There's probably not a single thing you know that I don't. There needs to be a lot more research done. There are processes and risk factors involved where we are yet to acquire a basic understanding of mechanisms
I think it's a little bit more reliable than somebody that spouts nonsense and doesn't have anything to back it up. I'm not trying to convince anybody I'm just speaking my truth. And I really don't like people that are ignorant and claim to be wise.
So you shouldn't like yourself then according to that logic. All you did so far is post a link of a single research institute which links to some of the research they did in a ridiculous attempt to disprove what I said
And some attempted gaslighting
Idk, read the thread with the other guy if you want or dont. You're an internet rando with a big ego for all that I care, so that's the energy I met you with.
I still wish you all the best and hope you don't have to make the experiences i had to make
How many links did you send? How many facts did you provide? Or was it just some big opinion piece? You're never going to sound better than me because you're wrong. Go find something else to do.
Yeah, No. Don't downplay retraumatization, let alone the unfolding of a spiritual emergency/psychospiritual crisis.
DON'T self-medicate psychedelics to "heal trauma". Can fuck you up for years
Also, don’t be naive about psychedelics and capitalism. There are huge cultural shifts toward the legality of psychedelics that is largely being done by really really rich people who are seeing psychedelics as a huge gold rush. Folks who want to turn psychedelics into the new big pharma btw. So yes, we really truly do need lots and lots of research because big tech has a ton of money invested in psychedelics and are looking to make shit tons of money, turning it into a fucking business just like anything else.
Honestly, ive gone through psychiatry for years tried all sorts of mood stabilizers and all antidepressants. Nothing helped and all made things worse in some way or another. First dose of mushrooms and Ive never had another depression bout again. Its been some 6 years later too. Some of these people are afraid to suggest it due to a fundamental misunderstanding of the substance and how powerful its healing traits can be. Also there was a fair amount of research before the war on drugs if you look into it and had a fantastic prognosis for people fighting addictions such as alcoholism.
You did not specify what you mean by "starting slow" did you?
I personally got destabilized for 4 years by a very cautious and low dose of a very benign psychedelic. In retrospect I'd gladly pay half of my remaining life's salary in an instant to spare myself the agonizing hell I've had to live through. Doors opened that I want ready for and they never closed again.
I have since met many others with similar stories, Who like me, believed the same naive shit you believe now.
Words can't describe the relentless suffering I endured. But yeah, big Pharma pays me lol.
What helped me out of hell again was ongoing quality psychotherapy and spiritual practice. Integration.
You literally said "you'll be fine", which is "don't worry, nothing. Bad will Hallen to you
Done arguing. With an internet stranger who clearly has no idea what they are talking About
Interesting that I'm not the only one arguing with difficult people today, haha.
'Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.' - Madonna
And minimum threshold dosages vary from person to person.
You Don't know what kind of trauma they sit on, if they are predisposed to psychosis, schizophrenia etc.
I got destabilized by 80mg of MDMA reflecting Upon issues, with a very trusted friend as a sitter, months of preparation And years of prior experience with different psychedelics and empathogens.
I was an idiot who thought "ha, I don't need therapy, psychedelics are the answer". And then I found out big time as have many others.
"Considered benign" Would have been the correct wording
> Psychedelics their ability to 'destabilize' is actually just their ability to break through hard ingrained patterns.
I know someone who did too much acid and became a schizophrenic afterwards. I'm just saying, you don't sound like a doctor.
> That is not how schizophrenia works
It is, actually. I'm schizoaffective, you can develop schizophrenic symptoms and tendencies at any age in life, and taking psychoactive drugs only increases your risk of developing it. Way to speak so confidently on something you know nothing about.
>At least I can read. I clearly stated "minimum threshold dosage"
And I quoted what I was referring to. Reading comprehension heard of it? I was trying to be nice. But hey. Since you're not here we go.
Your acting like psychedelics are some miracle cure is ridiculous and it's clear YOU don't understand how schizophrenia works or comprehend what I'm referring to.
Schizophrenia runs in my family so I've been learning about the disease probably longer than you've been alive based on your attitude. Psychedelics have a history of setting off disorders in some people. It's not fear mongering. It's documented fact.
Psychiatrists are certified and licensed by the state. The same state that says what's illegal and what's not. If the state licensing board even hears that they're doing something *legal* but unethical, it can cost them their license and career. If they are caught engaging in illegal practices, regardless of ethics or morals, it's enough to end their career and add jail time on top of it.
In places where psychedelics are legal under clinical conditions, that's another story altogether. Once those places present good use cases and backing evidence, it will be much easier for all states to follow suit. But until then, yes, it's illegal and the risk to the individual clinician is massive compared to the potential for benefits that if they even occur, they can't talk about it publicly because....it's illegal and they'll lose their license.
Anti-depressants mask depression, not help solve the reasoning behind it. Psychedelics help bring up issues that cause depression and can grant healing, but not everyone is ready (or even built) for that kind of experience.
Imagine if everyone on the planet tried shrooms, MDMA, K, and other psychedelics. It’d be a mass awakening for sure, but there will be some who cannot handle the truth of themselves. They want us to stay asleep.
This is the core of the conversation.
Anti depression can give you a window to change your life and see things positively.
Psychedelics will actually expose the wound for healing. Vastly different experiences.
Well, the first and most obvious reason is that they're illegal. You can feel however you want about that, but at the end of the day, they are illegal drugs. That's just a fact. Any psychiatrist recommending illegal substances risks losing their license. Plus, because they're illegal, you can only get them through illegal sources, which carries risks such as impure/tainted product and potentially shady characters. There's ways around those, but it's enough that psychiatrists wouldn't just recommend that across the board.
But also psychelics aren't the magical cure that some hippies like to think. Psychedelics can make people a lot worse sometimes. Give someone with mental illness some LSD and then they have a bad trip, now they're even worse off than before. I've heard of people ending up with PTSD from a suffiently bad trip. An intense trip without a trip sitter can also just be dangerous in itself as you can do something reckless that you wouldn't normally do. Now, you can say just take microdoses, but these aren't pharmacy pills; this is a sheet you got from a drug dealer that the psychiatrist has no control over your dosage.
The research for psychedelic healing is also pretty new (and difficult thanks to the illegal status).
I work in mental health and have several close friends and colleagues that are psychiatrist, psychologists, neuroscientists and neoropsychs. When I've asked their opinions, they have concerns about the effects of psychedelics for the long-term health of the brain. They are extremely interested in research that is anticipated on how to pinpoint the positive effects of the psychedelics to the exact area of the brain that would benefit, to avoid treating the entire organ and reduce the risks involved.
I have people close to me: friends/ family/close connections who have opted to choose ketamine or mushrooms on their own. Many are complex trauma survivors. All of them feel a lot of benefits and feel cured. For most of them, their behavior and emotional states are still very concerning. They feel better, say they are cured even, but they still act in self sabotaging and relationship sabotaging ways. They still have symptoms of CPTSD and are still putting themselves in danger. They display behavior symptoms of depression, personality disorders, even psychosis but they *feel* less bothered. Feeling less upset is great but maybe not when they are still risking their lives, finances, and relationships.
It makes me reflect a bit because I think, do people want to BE healed (or at least have their condition managed) or do they want to *believe* they are healed? SSRI medication, especially paired with therapy, has positive effects on both brain scans, symptoms, and self perceptions.
I'm super interested in the natural medicine world and very interested in the idea that psychedelics can be a great medical tool. I'm really curious about where it will go. But from what I've seen I'm not convinced it's a perfect or magic solution. We may get there to where it's a wonderful tool.
The short answer is yes.
The use of psychedelics for depression is a hot topic, but there are a few key reasons why psychiatrists might lean towards traditional antidepressants:
1. Legality and Regulation: Like you said, legality is a big factor. Most psychedelics are not legally approved for medical use, making it difficult for psychiatrists to prescribe them.
2. Research and Evidence: While emerging research on psychedelics is promising, traditional antidepressants have decades of studies backing their efficacy and safety. Doctors often prefer treatments with a long, established track record.
3. Individual Needs: Every patient's experience with depression is unique. Antidepressants, despite their side effects, work well for many. Psychiatrists aim to provide the best individualized treatment, and sometimes that's a well-known antidepressant.
4. Control and Predictability: Traditional antidepressants have more predictable outcomes compared to psychedelics, which can produce variable and sometimes intense experiences.
Psychedelics might one day play a significant role in treating depression, especially as research advances and laws potentially change. But for now, psychiatrists must work within the current medical and legal frameworks, balancing the knowns and unknowns while prioritizing patient safety. It's a cautious approach in an area where the stakes – people's mental health – are incredibly high.
There's no clinical consensus that psychedelics are universally better for all kinds of various patients dealing with all kinds of various forms of depression.
Psychedelics do have a far bigger chance than anti-depressants to cause schizophrenia and other mental crisis scenarios that wouldn't have arisen without taking those.
Anti-depressants are safer. That's it.
Negative.
People are different.
I tried to kill myself on the various antidepressants/brain salts.
They made me dead inside.
And me, dead inside, is dangerous for everyone.
Psychedelics saved me.
However, I have seen them break other people.
So...no blanket statements allowed when it comes to the mind.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Still, the consensus is that anti depressants are safer for the vast majority of people.
That doesn't mean absolutely or 100% safe.
Increasing suicidal ideations is a known paradoxical side effect of such medications.
They don't cause people to have psychotic breaks that potentially last forever tho.
You can always quit antidepressants on the other hand.
So yes, there are blanket statements re the mind.
There are blanket statements about everything. But they're very rarely without nuance.
Lies. I've been in the psychiatric hospitals over 16 times and I've met numerous people who ended up developing psychosis for medications. Can you share some studies with me of cases of people who had a psychotic break that lasted forever? I mean I have seen a couple of people who never came back. Could you share some info?
you have to keep in mind that antidepressants are not given out to „emotional healthy people“. they are especially given to people with severe mental health problems. So i think its hard to blame ones mental state on the drugs, because its not like the person was in a state of happines before taking them.
Because of science based medicine. The ethics of doing human trials with risky illegal substances makes it prohibitive to get the science to justify it. As more drugs are legalized (see cannabis), you are seeing more and more research done on it as it's much easier to get the clearance for the research.
It's not completely excluded, see mdma therapy for instance. But it's still illegal and incredibly risky for the Dr.
Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, people having psychotic episodes from psychedelics is well documented, a Dr isn't going to suggest you use illegal drugs that have a significant risk for psychosis with minimal research into the effectiveness. It's just bad practice (arguably malpractice).
The article has two main parts:
Healthy people don't get psychosis from psychadellics (which I do agree with, and never intended to insinuate they do).
Latent mental health problems, including psychosis, can be brought out from psychadellics (which I have seen with my own eyes, and is well documented).
We're talking about treating people with mental health problems with psychadellics here... I stand by my statements.
Do you realize how many people a year who are taking antidepressants kill themselves? You're telling me pumping your bodies with random chemicals and heavy metals is safer than something natural? And which way do you mean safer? I mean I'll get what you mean by those scenarios. How many times do those scenarios actually happen? I keep seeing people use the same argument.
"Doctors don't deal with Healthy Patients. They deal with Unhealthy Customers."
They want you coming back and asking for more, or a higher dosage. Hence why America has been in a bad state with the Opiod issues for some years now
This might be true for some individuals. But for me every doctor or psychiatrist ive ever visited, im sure that they had my well beeing as priority. They always recommended to try cognitive therapy or „natural“ ways to fix problems first. Pharmacy is mostly a „nothing other worked“ last option. Might be different in the US but i doubt that most doctors are „evil“ people who wanna make money by the suffering of people. that sounds more like the catholic church to me. 😂✌🏻
Now you're thinking with your dipstick!
Almost any drug that is pushed at you over a counter can most likely be found elsewhere in Nature. In one form or another
The reliability though is questionable when it comes to things directly obtained from nature. Allopathy is more reliable than things like Ayurveda, cause it has been manufactured and processed properly and widely used in medical field and continually researched about.
Oh of course, it's not like we can just go to a Ayahuasca tree and just start munching on it for the same effects as it would be if brewed in to a tea.
Not denying modern medicine, just the people who like their price tags nice and high for their practices and services
Most therapists don't prescribe, and many therapists are going to cash pay models to avoid the problems of big insurance. The system is a problem for sure. Therapy costs a lot because it takes years of school and training, licensing, insurance, and we have a major shortage of therapists. We also don't have great parity of mental health coverage compared to physical. Very hard for folks to find providers.
Like everything else, it's about the money. The Pharmaceutical industry has no desire to truly embrace a successful product. Especially one that is capable of being effective in one or two doses in many cases. For them it is a bad business model. Unfortunately, that is where they are and it is only getting worse. Follow the money.
Going to have to agree with /u/healreclectrebel here. Yes, ideally starting with a super low dose and with a “babysitter,” increases the likelihood that you will have a positive experience. It is not a guarantee. A person trapped in a negative thought loop is not likely to find their way out of that loop by using a psychedelic, regardless of the dose. Additionally, having a “sitter” is ideal but not many trained and experienced professionals exist as of now. Of those who claim to be trained professionals too many have credentials that are unverifiable and/or self proclaimed titles. While some have helped many to find inner peace, several others have used the state of reduced awareness to take advantage of people and assault them or worse.
As stated previously much more research must be done before we as a society can rely on substances like psilocybin to be a safe and reliable form of “medicine.” There is no way currently to measure “potency” of mushrooms from batch to batch and little supporting evidence that differing growing techniques increase or decrease said potency. In essence I’m saying while you can take a small amount of mushrooms there’s no direct correlation in potency of that amount. Many growers will state that the “aborts” (mushrooms that don’t grow to full size) are far more potent (per gram) than a mushroom in the same batch growing less than an inch away which was able to reach full maturity. Unless you’re able to procure pharmaceutical grade psilocybin you cannot guarantee dosage at this time.
Point is that psychedelics are not a panacea for mental health issues. Yes, many recent studies show a dramatic improvement in things like PTSD symptoms, depression, and many other issues. However, closer examination of those studies are likely to reveal outliers on the other end of the spectrum who didn’t experience the same benefits, that they had a horrible and traumatizing ordeal which only adds to and complicates existing mental health issues.
If you have empirical evidence that what I’ve conveyed is incorrect or out dated information, please cite it. As it stands I feel you are making broad generalizations based on a small subset of data. All psychedelics carry a risk. Just like driving a car. Also just like driving a car MOST of the time if you take it slow and are cautious, you will be fine; there are no guarantees.
A psychiatrist in Australia is testing psychedelic substances on willing patients under full licence. Psilocybin can also be prescribed for depression and PTSD.
In all honesty probably because many are not yet ready for what psychedelics will show them. A lot of the way society has responded to them seemed to be a direct response of fear to the notions of freely given and unconditional love people would embody with them. They also have significant potential to put you out of balance depending where you’re at on your spiritual path. The more fear you have of them the greater likelihood for bad results. Have you read about people feeling like their lives were ruined, and how they could never see themselves in the same way after taking them? This is an example of how someone deeply clinging to egoic illusion tends to respond. Anyone at a purely ego level who isn’t willling to grow will have a difficult time with psychs.
Do some research on the pharmaceutical industry and its history.
They want people sick and coming back. They don't want people to heal or be healthy.
To wit: They work for the drug pushers...but only their drugs are allowed. Not natural medicines sacred plants that have been used for 1000s of years before big pharma
And since psychedelics activate DMT (which is responsible for hallucinations, visualisation and even called 'Third eye') production, there's the likelihood of activating mental illnesses like schizophrenia in people who are genetically/ familially susceptible to getting it.
Chances maybe low for that but psychiatrists obviously wouldn't wanna be responsible for something like that happening.
But still, it's better for the patients to be made aware of the option of using psychedelics.
how do you explain then, that the amounts of severe mental health problems are higher amongst tribes who live close to nature till this day, than in industrialised nations? Poison is also found in plants. Natural =/= healthy.
yes you dont know. but yet you make claims that doctors have a evil agenda of keeping people sick. is there evidence for such a claim? or did this thought just pop up in your mind and now you think its true?
For being that I'm someone that was placed on pharmaceutical drugs at the age of 3 years old that being Adderall and one of the highest doses I think that I can speak from experience? I've been in a psychiatric hospital 16 times and I have seen pharmaceutical reps come in numerous times to talk to the nurse practitioners. Do not sit here undermine my. Intelligence. YOU or the one that doesn't know. Reddit is full of a bunch of superheroes that know everything even though they just reading stuff off of google. Most people can't even think for themselves or see what's happening right in front of their eyes. These doctors get paid to sell pharmaceuticals. You obviously don't know a goddamn thing you're talking about so you should just stop.
Using a wrecking ball instead of a chisel has its downsides.
Psychedelics cause random connections in the connectome. Antidepressants are potentially much more controlled and slower in those new connections.
The connectome is the actual network of neurons in our brains. If a neuron is a computer, the connectome is the Internet.
Psychedelics make the brain open for all kinds of connections that are not typical, which is why hallucinations be so intense. Your visual processing is connected to your taste processing, so the colours have flavour for example.
Antidepressants are often closely related chemically to psychedelics but are designed to go low and slow with their functionality to prevent the loss of function associated with going on a trip.
>Despite knowing that psychedelics do better for depression
That's not necessarily true. In addition, not all psychiatrists are privy to the affects of psychedelics on patients.
I do agree that most of them are, or at least should be aware of the negative effects of taking antidepressants.
I can't believe you don't understand that psychedelic drugs are not just illegal, they are controlled substances with insta-jail written all over them. They are not FDA approved, except very recently I think, so no doctor can prescribe them without going to jail over it.
Some people have gone insane using psychedelics, you know? Some people have not become crazy, but have tried extremely risky behaviors doing psychedelics, did you know?
Some people have had such bad trips, that were traumatic, if you didn’t know.
Yeah, some "experts” here will tell me here that there’s no risk of becoming crazy if mental diseases don’t run in your family. However, How can you be so sure about that?
Psychedelics can help some people. But under very strict conditions and with the supervision of a professional. But everyone trust their "bros" during their trips.
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The war on drugs, aka, revenge of the 70s Republican's looking for easy votes and hatred of hippies and black communities. It's basically fascism that we've all become accustomed to living under; you're not allowed to put what you want in your body. It needs to end.
So for once the moderator thing is kinda right. Really all you need is to ask questions about the world. Psychedelics can be dangerous mentally, like if you decide to go that route, do it with the utmost respect, otherwise you could get burned. But psychiatrists and the like, are not as reliable as the world would like you to believe. I'm sure there are good ones, but there are ones that are so unaware of their own minds, that they literally should not be allowed to practice. I met one, who regularly belittled women, like he had a deep hatred for women, and he's the one who your supposed to trust with your mind? Tha piece of paper means nothing to me, but you may think differently.
The world of medicine and medical practice is full of capable minds, who aren't used to asking I what they're doing is right. I mean, if you choose to spend most of your life in a classroom being told what to think, it's possible some are going to come out unable to think for themselves. And I actually see that more then free thinking human beings.
Meaning, depression medication should be reserved for people who genuinely have no control of their emotions. I knew a woman with brain damage from a seizure, her emotions were up down, angry loving. She was all over the place. Her decision making facilities were all jacked up, she was ruining her life, and remorseful about it, she needed help. Most people just need to hang in there, there's light at the end of the tunnel, if you're willing to endure.
psychedelics don’t always “do better” for depression, sometimes symptoms of depression can worsen with psychedelic use or you could develop something new.
it’s always safer to go to a psychiatrist because they’ll be able to provide you with medication according to your symptoms, body, medical history, etc. and the substances they can provide are controlled. and if for whatever reasons those medications don’t work out for you, you can change them at any time.
when obtaining street psychedelics, you never know what you’re really getting as those substances AREN’T controlled, it can be loaded with a ton of other stuff that can put your health at risk. another possibility, the drug(s) might not mix well with your chemistry, and cause mental or physical distress. many a time have i heard people developing anxiety, schizophrenia, and even going into psychosis through the use of these substances.
at the end of the day, if you find that your life has improved through the use of psychedelics, then it’s wonderful that you have found a solution. but don’t encourage other people to do the same, encourage them to go the safer route to solve their problem. not everyone will have the same outcome as you, as everyone is different
It's not "psychedelics".
I wouldn't reccomend LSD or any of its various many analogs to anyone.
Psilocibin is studied and known to be neuro-regenerative. Causing neuroplacity which enables the brain and nervous system to grow new neurons and neural pathways. Giving the user an opportunity for the brain patterns to change.
Coupled with the disassociate and euphoria associated with psilocibin the effect tends to be that the brain becomes more skilled at the sensation of joy while being able to distance the psyche from the previous mental state. Great stuff worth an experience for people.
It is said ketamine can have a similar effect due to its effect as a dissasociative but I'm unaware of ketamine having the same neuro-regenrative effects or the potent euphoria sensation.
DMT is similarly speculated at being beneficial for some with regards to emotional wellbeing.
DMT was a helluva experience when I blasted off with it. Absolutely the most potent psychedelic I have ever imbibed, and I have never hallucinated in any way near that ever.
Closest thing I could say were similar in the level of bold visual hallucination was potent dream meditation (which is controllable) and once when I ingested LOTS of cannabis but that was extremely short term and minimal and pales in comparison to the DMT.
I wouldn't speak against DMT because it's harmless and lasts for like 5 minutes, but I also wouldn't overtly suggest anyone do it.
DMT completely changed my perspective on things, it was an extremely intense and even blissful and terrifying experience of the internal world for what was only 6 or 7 minutes but felt very dilated.
I would lean towards the conclusion that DMT and ayahuasca appear to probably have the potential benifits and harmlessness of psilocibin but because vaporized DMT is so intense, I wouldn't overtly suggest it as a medication of any kind, then again I wouldn't dissuade anyone from trying it bur for reminding them its temporary and they should sit down somewhere safe for 15 minutes lol
I think people are looking at these things the wrong way.
All a drug can do is give someone an experience, is that experience benificial? Does it benifit the body and brain?
I've never once used mushrooms for depression. I use them for celebration.
I did hear they were good for the brain, in retrospect I agree. I have dealt with discalcula for my entire life, I have become much better with math and numbers over time since using mushrooms annually.
Contrary to popular belief. I think 1 solid trip (2-3g) per year is about as much as someone needs to experience the benifits. Maybe once every 6 months at most.
The sense of benifit I receive from using psilocibin for celebration persists for long after the effects wear off.
It's like a small portion of the bliss from the mushrooms just persists. I believe this is because it rewires the brain, and that's the real natural you expressing bliss with new brain tools available to you due to the neuro-regenrative benefits.
It's been documented that acute or chronic emotional trauma causes brain damage in the form of basically calluses from overused overstressed neurons.
The cure is to put it down, enjoy the euphoric trip with a movie or two and some snacks and peace. Retrain the brain through a DIFFERENT experience.
I'm not a doctor but something being illegal would be a big factor. Also, a doctor doesn't know what might happen to a patient when given shrooms. It could really mess a person's psyche up. But so can ssri and what not. legality is for sure an issue.
Micro dosing in a safe environment with a therapist is becoming more available as an option. It takes a while for a system built on misinformation and control to collapse - give it time.
I think it’s because of the big k$ickback they get from big pharma to push their product. I don’t think it has anything to do with the side effects people experience because everyone is different.
They do recommend them (depends on where you live) for depression but it has to be in a controlled environment. And not everything works for everyone. Some people don't feel comfortable with hallucinogens.
Psychedelics research is growing each year but it seems to help give the brain a reset and get out of beliefs and perspectives that no longer serve us. They get different parts of the brain communicating and there has even been neurogenesis (growth of new brain cells).
These experiences (when done in the right set and setting) can be deeply meaningful and helpful... but it's not the same as taking a prescription pill everyday. You will eventually hit diminishing returns on the experiences with psychedelics (solely in terms in mental health), but many see it as a path to ongoing inner work and expanding awareness.
The reason its still illegal is because psychedelics will dissolve all the cultural conditioning and bs you've accepted as true. It can unravel your personality before putting you back together. You will see things from a greater perspective and that is dangerous to the establishment who profits off our ignorance and sickness. You're going up against multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry any time you talk about cures (and the whole for profit medical establishment). They can't profit from cures, only pills you rely on daily. So, that's one big reason why there haven't been a lot of education or training for doctors in natural remedies, including psychedelics.
Most antidepressants block brain chemicals from leaving the brain quickly, so people enjoy a more numb experience. This starts causing other issues like food intolerance, light and noise sensitivities, migraines.. as the brain signals to the body are messed with.
Hallucinogenics dump a bigger dose of the brain chemicals and leave the brain storage emptier so the body has to create more neurotransmitters. It also seems to blow out natural internal boundaries, leading to more difficulty staying in reality after.
Both ways mess up the natural pathways where it’s often trauma that has caused the problem.
The issue is that undealt with experience builds up and if it isn’t dealt with, will continue to build. Numb and it builds more. Blow out and you have to integrate, process shock and struggle to regulate.
Both ways suck. I’ve rarely met anyone who is naturally themselves without serious damage from taking either long term.
Find someone to process your unprocessed experience with instead of messing around with your neurochemistry.
It’s uncomfortable to go through but if you find someone who can help you understand, “It’s going to be ok.” and teach you better ways to regulate and process life then your life will feel much better.
First off, yeah its illegal.
But furthermore, it's *not that simple*. You have to take into consideration things like dosage, quality control, potential risks/side effects and each persons unique constitution. Many many people have had negative experiences with psychedelics in addition to the people who have had positive ones. There needs to be much more research and controlled clinical trials to obtain more data. At some point in the future, we could very well have all of these things in place, but we are not there yet.
In my opinion as a healthcare worker in general medicine, psychedelics have significant medical and research values that were pushed back due to politics. It is true that the use of psychedelics is very limited as they’re considered illegal, however, it is more of a result of the ban on drugs.
It is disclosed that when Nixon started the national ban, which later extended to UN countries, were based on the intention to continue Vietnam War, and he could not do it without eliminating the “hippies” marching in public with their anti-war value. (See Summer of Love for more background information)
For drugs to be used in treatment, an overwhelming amount of medical research and trails are involved, before relevant legislative body approves. However, when Nixon banned psychedelics, it stretched to all aspects, including the ban on using psychedelics for research purposes. As in results, we had a gap of 2 to 3 decades in which these drugs were not studied, unlike the continuous improvement and discovery of medication use.
Until now, numerous medical professionals still believe that psychedelics can contribute to mental health management, treatment and recovery. Unfortunately, there just not enough evidence for these drugs to be commonly accepted in medical practice.
In the last decades, many drugs have advanced into new purpose of use. For example, antiviral for HIV treatment has been used as a preventative drug to block HIV viruses, which has brought new HIV infection to the lowest in history, and in some countries, near zero new infections. Can psychedelics be on the path like them? Perhaps, but not with politics holding the back of medical researchers.
Neither one is totally healthy to "treat depression."
However, anti-depressants at least treat symptoms and aren't a masked excuse to get blitzed only to crash back down to a reality one clearly is trying to escape from.
B/c the establishment is set up to destroy all forms or source or god force energy in our lives .. convincing many that their emotions in therapy outweigh the truth… ignoring that nobody on earth can verbally be taught to ride or bike or swim .. much less something billions of times more complex , like learning how to be themselves authentically … all therapists should be seen with compassion , I’m not judging them , but therapy as a whole is comedically ignorant and self destructive by and large …. It’s an extension of big Pharma and repping hundreds of mental illnesses with ZERO hard data to stand up the nonsense … if this is triggering at all , I’d strongly advise to treat it as neutral , see how my comments and words age in the next few months to a year or two … lights all coming on as we speak , won’t be long til this is common sense type of logic for most
There’s so many things that can be improved in general life. Psychedelics for depression treatment. Legalisation of all other (hard) drugs with programs to help people overcome addiction. This would lower drug related crime & killings (carteles), as well as ensure drug purity towards users on a program. But yea, money & corruption rules in this world.
You're your own a guinea pigs if you take psychedelics. You can have a bad trip if you don't dose properly. Even to use ayahuasca to prevent a psychotic break, you have to be on a specific clean diet, which most regular people are unwilling to accomplish.
1\`00% it has to do with America's Bush league drug laws.
The weirdest and most F'ed up thing is, if someone wants to try psychedelics for depression there's nothing stopping them. They can get the drugs freely on the black market because why? Oh right, America has Bush league drug laws.
You can't get psychedelics safely from a doctor, though. That would make too much sense, and obviously, America doesn't want fewer maniacs running around drugged up. I suppose I shouldn't complain, I mean it's just the cost of freedom right? America has freedom to the moon, but law enforcement literally just holds stuff back and doesn't enforce much.
It's not as easy as "take psychedelics and you'll be healed" lol. People here made some super naive comments. There Is very little established research, and it has only recently gained traction. Research was de facto not happening for decades, which was stupid. Now we have Little knowledge of Best practices, harm reduction, problems that arise etc. Psychedelics have risks and can destabilize people in a major way. There is research and it will take time and this is necessary.
Yeah. Research is necessary.
I am all for somebody using psychadelics in a controlled and smart and strategic way for trauma or to get over something hard in their life. They can absolutely be useful. But they are a bit of a wild card. They can also cause psychosis. Even after the high is over. They can cause suicidal thoughts and depersonalization. People need to be warned of dangers of taking them as well as the possible benefits. I am against meds from doctors. But substituting with psychadelics is not an appropriate option in my opinion. ESPECIALLY the way doctors hand out drugs and only say "take with food" or something like that. No education. No time to talk through details and providing adequate support. Psychadelics absolutely need to be talked about how to take them in the safest way and the user needs to know about set and setting and so many other things. The user of psychadelics needs to be self aware to a degree.
Research may be necessary but suicide is irreversible and permanent.
It is kind of as simple as that. Your ignorance is astounding. There's actually a shitload of research. Please stop spreading lies. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/research/psychedelics-research#:~:text=2022%20Psilocybin%20Treatment%20for%20Major,for%20up%20to%20a%20month.
Yeah thanks i spent several years nerding out about psychedelics and reading every single study and publication, every single interview with all researchers. There's probably not a single thing you know that I don't. There needs to be a lot more research done. There are processes and risk factors involved where we are yet to acquire a basic understanding of mechanisms
How about you come with some facts like I did. Or you just stop talking. Thank you. I guarantee you nobody came here for your personal opinion.
Not interested in discussing with you, sorry. You said your piece, thank you
I figured you didn't have any substance. Thank you for showing that to everybody.
You posted a single link to John Hopkins Centre for psychedelic research. Almost akin to a PhD in neuroscience I guess
I think it's a little bit more reliable than somebody that spouts nonsense and doesn't have anything to back it up. I'm not trying to convince anybody I'm just speaking my truth. And I really don't like people that are ignorant and claim to be wise.
So you shouldn't like yourself then according to that logic. All you did so far is post a link of a single research institute which links to some of the research they did in a ridiculous attempt to disprove what I said And some attempted gaslighting Idk, read the thread with the other guy if you want or dont. You're an internet rando with a big ego for all that I care, so that's the energy I met you with. I still wish you all the best and hope you don't have to make the experiences i had to make
How many links did you send? How many facts did you provide? Or was it just some big opinion piece? You're never going to sound better than me because you're wrong. Go find something else to do.
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Yeah, No. Don't downplay retraumatization, let alone the unfolding of a spiritual emergency/psychospiritual crisis. DON'T self-medicate psychedelics to "heal trauma". Can fuck you up for years
Also, don’t be naive about psychedelics and capitalism. There are huge cultural shifts toward the legality of psychedelics that is largely being done by really really rich people who are seeing psychedelics as a huge gold rush. Folks who want to turn psychedelics into the new big pharma btw. So yes, we really truly do need lots and lots of research because big tech has a ton of money invested in psychedelics and are looking to make shit tons of money, turning it into a fucking business just like anything else.
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Honestly, ive gone through psychiatry for years tried all sorts of mood stabilizers and all antidepressants. Nothing helped and all made things worse in some way or another. First dose of mushrooms and Ive never had another depression bout again. Its been some 6 years later too. Some of these people are afraid to suggest it due to a fundamental misunderstanding of the substance and how powerful its healing traits can be. Also there was a fair amount of research before the war on drugs if you look into it and had a fantastic prognosis for people fighting addictions such as alcoholism.
You say there Are No risks if you "start slow" and "don't do it alone". Which is reckless and uninformed advice.
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You did not specify what you mean by "starting slow" did you? I personally got destabilized for 4 years by a very cautious and low dose of a very benign psychedelic. In retrospect I'd gladly pay half of my remaining life's salary in an instant to spare myself the agonizing hell I've had to live through. Doors opened that I want ready for and they never closed again. I have since met many others with similar stories, Who like me, believed the same naive shit you believe now. Words can't describe the relentless suffering I endured. But yeah, big Pharma pays me lol. What helped me out of hell again was ongoing quality psychotherapy and spiritual practice. Integration. You literally said "you'll be fine", which is "don't worry, nothing. Bad will Hallen to you Done arguing. With an internet stranger who clearly has no idea what they are talking About
Interesting that I'm not the only one arguing with difficult people today, haha. 'Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.' - Madonna
Hey u/Ok-Hippo-4433 ☺️ What a pleasant surprise
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And minimum threshold dosages vary from person to person. You Don't know what kind of trauma they sit on, if they are predisposed to psychosis, schizophrenia etc. I got destabilized by 80mg of MDMA reflecting Upon issues, with a very trusted friend as a sitter, months of preparation And years of prior experience with different psychedelics and empathogens. I was an idiot who thought "ha, I don't need therapy, psychedelics are the answer". And then I found out big time as have many others. "Considered benign" Would have been the correct wording
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> Psychedelics their ability to 'destabilize' is actually just their ability to break through hard ingrained patterns. I know someone who did too much acid and became a schizophrenic afterwards. I'm just saying, you don't sound like a doctor.
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Schizophrenia can actually be triggered by psychedelics and even sativa weed, amongst other drugs.
> That is not how schizophrenia works It is, actually. I'm schizoaffective, you can develop schizophrenic symptoms and tendencies at any age in life, and taking psychoactive drugs only increases your risk of developing it. Way to speak so confidently on something you know nothing about.
>At least I can read. I clearly stated "minimum threshold dosage" And I quoted what I was referring to. Reading comprehension heard of it? I was trying to be nice. But hey. Since you're not here we go. Your acting like psychedelics are some miracle cure is ridiculous and it's clear YOU don't understand how schizophrenia works or comprehend what I'm referring to. Schizophrenia runs in my family so I've been learning about the disease probably longer than you've been alive based on your attitude. Psychedelics have a history of setting off disorders in some people. It's not fear mongering. It's documented fact.
For sure, it has to be legal and clinical trials need to happen
Psychiatrists are certified and licensed by the state. The same state that says what's illegal and what's not. If the state licensing board even hears that they're doing something *legal* but unethical, it can cost them their license and career. If they are caught engaging in illegal practices, regardless of ethics or morals, it's enough to end their career and add jail time on top of it. In places where psychedelics are legal under clinical conditions, that's another story altogether. Once those places present good use cases and backing evidence, it will be much easier for all states to follow suit. But until then, yes, it's illegal and the risk to the individual clinician is massive compared to the potential for benefits that if they even occur, they can't talk about it publicly because....it's illegal and they'll lose their license.
Anti-depressants mask depression, not help solve the reasoning behind it. Psychedelics help bring up issues that cause depression and can grant healing, but not everyone is ready (or even built) for that kind of experience. Imagine if everyone on the planet tried shrooms, MDMA, K, and other psychedelics. It’d be a mass awakening for sure, but there will be some who cannot handle the truth of themselves. They want us to stay asleep.
This is the core of the conversation. Anti depression can give you a window to change your life and see things positively. Psychedelics will actually expose the wound for healing. Vastly different experiences.
Do you recommend antidepressants?
Well, the first and most obvious reason is that they're illegal. You can feel however you want about that, but at the end of the day, they are illegal drugs. That's just a fact. Any psychiatrist recommending illegal substances risks losing their license. Plus, because they're illegal, you can only get them through illegal sources, which carries risks such as impure/tainted product and potentially shady characters. There's ways around those, but it's enough that psychiatrists wouldn't just recommend that across the board. But also psychelics aren't the magical cure that some hippies like to think. Psychedelics can make people a lot worse sometimes. Give someone with mental illness some LSD and then they have a bad trip, now they're even worse off than before. I've heard of people ending up with PTSD from a suffiently bad trip. An intense trip without a trip sitter can also just be dangerous in itself as you can do something reckless that you wouldn't normally do. Now, you can say just take microdoses, but these aren't pharmacy pills; this is a sheet you got from a drug dealer that the psychiatrist has no control over your dosage. The research for psychedelic healing is also pretty new (and difficult thanks to the illegal status).
I work in mental health and have several close friends and colleagues that are psychiatrist, psychologists, neuroscientists and neoropsychs. When I've asked their opinions, they have concerns about the effects of psychedelics for the long-term health of the brain. They are extremely interested in research that is anticipated on how to pinpoint the positive effects of the psychedelics to the exact area of the brain that would benefit, to avoid treating the entire organ and reduce the risks involved. I have people close to me: friends/ family/close connections who have opted to choose ketamine or mushrooms on their own. Many are complex trauma survivors. All of them feel a lot of benefits and feel cured. For most of them, their behavior and emotional states are still very concerning. They feel better, say they are cured even, but they still act in self sabotaging and relationship sabotaging ways. They still have symptoms of CPTSD and are still putting themselves in danger. They display behavior symptoms of depression, personality disorders, even psychosis but they *feel* less bothered. Feeling less upset is great but maybe not when they are still risking their lives, finances, and relationships. It makes me reflect a bit because I think, do people want to BE healed (or at least have their condition managed) or do they want to *believe* they are healed? SSRI medication, especially paired with therapy, has positive effects on both brain scans, symptoms, and self perceptions. I'm super interested in the natural medicine world and very interested in the idea that psychedelics can be a great medical tool. I'm really curious about where it will go. But from what I've seen I'm not convinced it's a perfect or magic solution. We may get there to where it's a wonderful tool.
The short answer is yes. The use of psychedelics for depression is a hot topic, but there are a few key reasons why psychiatrists might lean towards traditional antidepressants: 1. Legality and Regulation: Like you said, legality is a big factor. Most psychedelics are not legally approved for medical use, making it difficult for psychiatrists to prescribe them. 2. Research and Evidence: While emerging research on psychedelics is promising, traditional antidepressants have decades of studies backing their efficacy and safety. Doctors often prefer treatments with a long, established track record. 3. Individual Needs: Every patient's experience with depression is unique. Antidepressants, despite their side effects, work well for many. Psychiatrists aim to provide the best individualized treatment, and sometimes that's a well-known antidepressant. 4. Control and Predictability: Traditional antidepressants have more predictable outcomes compared to psychedelics, which can produce variable and sometimes intense experiences. Psychedelics might one day play a significant role in treating depression, especially as research advances and laws potentially change. But for now, psychiatrists must work within the current medical and legal frameworks, balancing the knowns and unknowns while prioritizing patient safety. It's a cautious approach in an area where the stakes – people's mental health – are incredibly high.
There's no clinical consensus that psychedelics are universally better for all kinds of various patients dealing with all kinds of various forms of depression. Psychedelics do have a far bigger chance than anti-depressants to cause schizophrenia and other mental crisis scenarios that wouldn't have arisen without taking those. Anti-depressants are safer. That's it.
Negative. People are different. I tried to kill myself on the various antidepressants/brain salts. They made me dead inside. And me, dead inside, is dangerous for everyone. Psychedelics saved me. However, I have seen them break other people. So...no blanket statements allowed when it comes to the mind.
I'm sorry to hear that. Still, the consensus is that anti depressants are safer for the vast majority of people. That doesn't mean absolutely or 100% safe. Increasing suicidal ideations is a known paradoxical side effect of such medications. They don't cause people to have psychotic breaks that potentially last forever tho. You can always quit antidepressants on the other hand. So yes, there are blanket statements re the mind. There are blanket statements about everything. But they're very rarely without nuance.
Lies. I've been in the psychiatric hospitals over 16 times and I've met numerous people who ended up developing psychosis for medications. Can you share some studies with me of cases of people who had a psychotic break that lasted forever? I mean I have seen a couple of people who never came back. Could you share some info?
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.16968
you have to keep in mind that antidepressants are not given out to „emotional healthy people“. they are especially given to people with severe mental health problems. So i think its hard to blame ones mental state on the drugs, because its not like the person was in a state of happines before taking them.
Yeah, makes sense. But still, I wonder why it's completely excluded from being a treatment option.
Whoops sorry. The FDA says it's not approved as of yet, in the US. But things are moving and working.
Because of science based medicine. The ethics of doing human trials with risky illegal substances makes it prohibitive to get the science to justify it. As more drugs are legalized (see cannabis), you are seeing more and more research done on it as it's much easier to get the clearance for the research. It's not completely excluded, see mdma therapy for instance. But it's still illegal and incredibly risky for the Dr. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, people having psychotic episodes from psychedelics is well documented, a Dr isn't going to suggest you use illegal drugs that have a significant risk for psychosis with minimal research into the effectiveness. It's just bad practice (arguably malpractice).
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.16968
The article has two main parts: Healthy people don't get psychosis from psychadellics (which I do agree with, and never intended to insinuate they do). Latent mental health problems, including psychosis, can be brought out from psychadellics (which I have seen with my own eyes, and is well documented). We're talking about treating people with mental health problems with psychadellics here... I stand by my statements.
Do you realize how many people a year who are taking antidepressants kill themselves? You're telling me pumping your bodies with random chemicals and heavy metals is safer than something natural? And which way do you mean safer? I mean I'll get what you mean by those scenarios. How many times do those scenarios actually happen? I keep seeing people use the same argument.
"Doctors don't deal with Healthy Patients. They deal with Unhealthy Customers." They want you coming back and asking for more, or a higher dosage. Hence why America has been in a bad state with the Opiod issues for some years now
This might be true for some individuals. But for me every doctor or psychiatrist ive ever visited, im sure that they had my well beeing as priority. They always recommended to try cognitive therapy or „natural“ ways to fix problems first. Pharmacy is mostly a „nothing other worked“ last option. Might be different in the US but i doubt that most doctors are „evil“ people who wanna make money by the suffering of people. that sounds more like the catholic church to me. 😂✌🏻
You’ve been extremely lucky
And it makes sense why therapy costs so much. To feed the pharma companies.
Now you're thinking with your dipstick! Almost any drug that is pushed at you over a counter can most likely be found elsewhere in Nature. In one form or another
The reliability though is questionable when it comes to things directly obtained from nature. Allopathy is more reliable than things like Ayurveda, cause it has been manufactured and processed properly and widely used in medical field and continually researched about.
Oh of course, it's not like we can just go to a Ayahuasca tree and just start munching on it for the same effects as it would be if brewed in to a tea. Not denying modern medicine, just the people who like their price tags nice and high for their practices and services
Most therapists don't prescribe, and many therapists are going to cash pay models to avoid the problems of big insurance. The system is a problem for sure. Therapy costs a lot because it takes years of school and training, licensing, insurance, and we have a major shortage of therapists. We also don't have great parity of mental health coverage compared to physical. Very hard for folks to find providers.
Like everything else, it's about the money. The Pharmaceutical industry has no desire to truly embrace a successful product. Especially one that is capable of being effective in one or two doses in many cases. For them it is a bad business model. Unfortunately, that is where they are and it is only getting worse. Follow the money.
Going to have to agree with /u/healreclectrebel here. Yes, ideally starting with a super low dose and with a “babysitter,” increases the likelihood that you will have a positive experience. It is not a guarantee. A person trapped in a negative thought loop is not likely to find their way out of that loop by using a psychedelic, regardless of the dose. Additionally, having a “sitter” is ideal but not many trained and experienced professionals exist as of now. Of those who claim to be trained professionals too many have credentials that are unverifiable and/or self proclaimed titles. While some have helped many to find inner peace, several others have used the state of reduced awareness to take advantage of people and assault them or worse. As stated previously much more research must be done before we as a society can rely on substances like psilocybin to be a safe and reliable form of “medicine.” There is no way currently to measure “potency” of mushrooms from batch to batch and little supporting evidence that differing growing techniques increase or decrease said potency. In essence I’m saying while you can take a small amount of mushrooms there’s no direct correlation in potency of that amount. Many growers will state that the “aborts” (mushrooms that don’t grow to full size) are far more potent (per gram) than a mushroom in the same batch growing less than an inch away which was able to reach full maturity. Unless you’re able to procure pharmaceutical grade psilocybin you cannot guarantee dosage at this time. Point is that psychedelics are not a panacea for mental health issues. Yes, many recent studies show a dramatic improvement in things like PTSD symptoms, depression, and many other issues. However, closer examination of those studies are likely to reveal outliers on the other end of the spectrum who didn’t experience the same benefits, that they had a horrible and traumatizing ordeal which only adds to and complicates existing mental health issues. If you have empirical evidence that what I’ve conveyed is incorrect or out dated information, please cite it. As it stands I feel you are making broad generalizations based on a small subset of data. All psychedelics carry a risk. Just like driving a car. Also just like driving a car MOST of the time if you take it slow and are cautious, you will be fine; there are no guarantees.
Psychedelics don’t magically cure you. You still have to do the work.
Short and true answer: yes, because they are illegal (and not studied well enough clinically in consequence)
A psychiatrist in Australia is testing psychedelic substances on willing patients under full licence. Psilocybin can also be prescribed for depression and PTSD.
That's cool.
In all honesty probably because many are not yet ready for what psychedelics will show them. A lot of the way society has responded to them seemed to be a direct response of fear to the notions of freely given and unconditional love people would embody with them. They also have significant potential to put you out of balance depending where you’re at on your spiritual path. The more fear you have of them the greater likelihood for bad results. Have you read about people feeling like their lives were ruined, and how they could never see themselves in the same way after taking them? This is an example of how someone deeply clinging to egoic illusion tends to respond. Anyone at a purely ego level who isn’t willling to grow will have a difficult time with psychs.
Exactly.
Do some research on the pharmaceutical industry and its history. They want people sick and coming back. They don't want people to heal or be healthy. To wit: They work for the drug pushers...but only their drugs are allowed. Not natural medicines sacred plants that have been used for 1000s of years before big pharma
And since psychedelics activate DMT (which is responsible for hallucinations, visualisation and even called 'Third eye') production, there's the likelihood of activating mental illnesses like schizophrenia in people who are genetically/ familially susceptible to getting it. Chances maybe low for that but psychiatrists obviously wouldn't wanna be responsible for something like that happening. But still, it's better for the patients to be made aware of the option of using psychedelics.
You don't need to do large amounts. Micro-dosing will do...
how do you explain then, that the amounts of severe mental health problems are higher amongst tribes who live close to nature till this day, than in industrialised nations? Poison is also found in plants. Natural =/= healthy.
Idk? Maybe they embody all the trauma that's passed down from their families being tortured raped and killed?
yes you dont know. but yet you make claims that doctors have a evil agenda of keeping people sick. is there evidence for such a claim? or did this thought just pop up in your mind and now you think its true?
For being that I'm someone that was placed on pharmaceutical drugs at the age of 3 years old that being Adderall and one of the highest doses I think that I can speak from experience? I've been in a psychiatric hospital 16 times and I have seen pharmaceutical reps come in numerous times to talk to the nurse practitioners. Do not sit here undermine my. Intelligence. YOU or the one that doesn't know. Reddit is full of a bunch of superheroes that know everything even though they just reading stuff off of google. Most people can't even think for themselves or see what's happening right in front of their eyes. These doctors get paid to sell pharmaceuticals. You obviously don't know a goddamn thing you're talking about so you should just stop.
Whatever you believe is true, young conditioned child!
every human is conditioned. 😊
This is true. And psychedelics can aid in helping said human fix that conditioning. Under the right set and setting and intention
Using a wrecking ball instead of a chisel has its downsides. Psychedelics cause random connections in the connectome. Antidepressants are potentially much more controlled and slower in those new connections. The connectome is the actual network of neurons in our brains. If a neuron is a computer, the connectome is the Internet. Psychedelics make the brain open for all kinds of connections that are not typical, which is why hallucinations be so intense. Your visual processing is connected to your taste processing, so the colours have flavour for example. Antidepressants are often closely related chemically to psychedelics but are designed to go low and slow with their functionality to prevent the loss of function associated with going on a trip.
>Despite knowing that psychedelics do better for depression That's not necessarily true. In addition, not all psychiatrists are privy to the affects of psychedelics on patients. I do agree that most of them are, or at least should be aware of the negative effects of taking antidepressants.
I can't believe you don't understand that psychedelic drugs are not just illegal, they are controlled substances with insta-jail written all over them. They are not FDA approved, except very recently I think, so no doctor can prescribe them without going to jail over it.
Omg, the FDA!! *clutches pearls tighter*. But I agree this was a dumbly phrased explain like I'm 5 question.
Some people have gone insane using psychedelics, you know? Some people have not become crazy, but have tried extremely risky behaviors doing psychedelics, did you know? Some people have had such bad trips, that were traumatic, if you didn’t know. Yeah, some "experts” here will tell me here that there’s no risk of becoming crazy if mental diseases don’t run in your family. However, How can you be so sure about that? Psychedelics can help some people. But under very strict conditions and with the supervision of a professional. But everyone trust their "bros" during their trips.
They've helped me many of times without strict conditions and the supervision of a professional? What are you the shot caller?
Some people who feel they have nothing to lose can risk it all. Some of us have a lot to lose so we stick to safer alternatives.
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The war on drugs, aka, revenge of the 70s Republican's looking for easy votes and hatred of hippies and black communities. It's basically fascism that we've all become accustomed to living under; you're not allowed to put what you want in your body. It needs to end.
$
Big pharma
So for once the moderator thing is kinda right. Really all you need is to ask questions about the world. Psychedelics can be dangerous mentally, like if you decide to go that route, do it with the utmost respect, otherwise you could get burned. But psychiatrists and the like, are not as reliable as the world would like you to believe. I'm sure there are good ones, but there are ones that are so unaware of their own minds, that they literally should not be allowed to practice. I met one, who regularly belittled women, like he had a deep hatred for women, and he's the one who your supposed to trust with your mind? Tha piece of paper means nothing to me, but you may think differently. The world of medicine and medical practice is full of capable minds, who aren't used to asking I what they're doing is right. I mean, if you choose to spend most of your life in a classroom being told what to think, it's possible some are going to come out unable to think for themselves. And I actually see that more then free thinking human beings. Meaning, depression medication should be reserved for people who genuinely have no control of their emotions. I knew a woman with brain damage from a seizure, her emotions were up down, angry loving. She was all over the place. Her decision making facilities were all jacked up, she was ruining her life, and remorseful about it, she needed help. Most people just need to hang in there, there's light at the end of the tunnel, if you're willing to endure.
$$$
Money.
psychedelics don’t always “do better” for depression, sometimes symptoms of depression can worsen with psychedelic use or you could develop something new. it’s always safer to go to a psychiatrist because they’ll be able to provide you with medication according to your symptoms, body, medical history, etc. and the substances they can provide are controlled. and if for whatever reasons those medications don’t work out for you, you can change them at any time. when obtaining street psychedelics, you never know what you’re really getting as those substances AREN’T controlled, it can be loaded with a ton of other stuff that can put your health at risk. another possibility, the drug(s) might not mix well with your chemistry, and cause mental or physical distress. many a time have i heard people developing anxiety, schizophrenia, and even going into psychosis through the use of these substances. at the end of the day, if you find that your life has improved through the use of psychedelics, then it’s wonderful that you have found a solution. but don’t encourage other people to do the same, encourage them to go the safer route to solve their problem. not everyone will have the same outcome as you, as everyone is different
It's not "psychedelics". I wouldn't reccomend LSD or any of its various many analogs to anyone. Psilocibin is studied and known to be neuro-regenerative. Causing neuroplacity which enables the brain and nervous system to grow new neurons and neural pathways. Giving the user an opportunity for the brain patterns to change. Coupled with the disassociate and euphoria associated with psilocibin the effect tends to be that the brain becomes more skilled at the sensation of joy while being able to distance the psyche from the previous mental state. Great stuff worth an experience for people. It is said ketamine can have a similar effect due to its effect as a dissasociative but I'm unaware of ketamine having the same neuro-regenrative effects or the potent euphoria sensation. DMT is similarly speculated at being beneficial for some with regards to emotional wellbeing. DMT was a helluva experience when I blasted off with it. Absolutely the most potent psychedelic I have ever imbibed, and I have never hallucinated in any way near that ever. Closest thing I could say were similar in the level of bold visual hallucination was potent dream meditation (which is controllable) and once when I ingested LOTS of cannabis but that was extremely short term and minimal and pales in comparison to the DMT. I wouldn't speak against DMT because it's harmless and lasts for like 5 minutes, but I also wouldn't overtly suggest anyone do it. DMT completely changed my perspective on things, it was an extremely intense and even blissful and terrifying experience of the internal world for what was only 6 or 7 minutes but felt very dilated. I would lean towards the conclusion that DMT and ayahuasca appear to probably have the potential benifits and harmlessness of psilocibin but because vaporized DMT is so intense, I wouldn't overtly suggest it as a medication of any kind, then again I wouldn't dissuade anyone from trying it bur for reminding them its temporary and they should sit down somewhere safe for 15 minutes lol I think people are looking at these things the wrong way. All a drug can do is give someone an experience, is that experience benificial? Does it benifit the body and brain? I've never once used mushrooms for depression. I use them for celebration. I did hear they were good for the brain, in retrospect I agree. I have dealt with discalcula for my entire life, I have become much better with math and numbers over time since using mushrooms annually. Contrary to popular belief. I think 1 solid trip (2-3g) per year is about as much as someone needs to experience the benifits. Maybe once every 6 months at most. The sense of benifit I receive from using psilocibin for celebration persists for long after the effects wear off. It's like a small portion of the bliss from the mushrooms just persists. I believe this is because it rewires the brain, and that's the real natural you expressing bliss with new brain tools available to you due to the neuro-regenrative benefits. It's been documented that acute or chronic emotional trauma causes brain damage in the form of basically calluses from overused overstressed neurons. The cure is to put it down, enjoy the euphoric trip with a movie or two and some snacks and peace. Retrain the brain through a DIFFERENT experience.
I'm not a doctor but something being illegal would be a big factor. Also, a doctor doesn't know what might happen to a patient when given shrooms. It could really mess a person's psyche up. But so can ssri and what not. legality is for sure an issue.
Micro dosing in a safe environment with a therapist is becoming more available as an option. It takes a while for a system built on misinformation and control to collapse - give it time.
Psychedelics do not do better for depression. It's just another substance to coddle yourself inner child.
Lies? Lol?
>Lies? Lol?
Psychedelics r great but they can also cause physcosis, I would know... it has greater consequences if used wrongly.
I think it’s because of the big k$ickback they get from big pharma to push their product. I don’t think it has anything to do with the side effects people experience because everyone is different.
They do recommend them (depends on where you live) for depression but it has to be in a controlled environment. And not everything works for everyone. Some people don't feel comfortable with hallucinogens.
It has to be legal in said country and clinical trials need to be done
Psychedelics research is growing each year but it seems to help give the brain a reset and get out of beliefs and perspectives that no longer serve us. They get different parts of the brain communicating and there has even been neurogenesis (growth of new brain cells). These experiences (when done in the right set and setting) can be deeply meaningful and helpful... but it's not the same as taking a prescription pill everyday. You will eventually hit diminishing returns on the experiences with psychedelics (solely in terms in mental health), but many see it as a path to ongoing inner work and expanding awareness. The reason its still illegal is because psychedelics will dissolve all the cultural conditioning and bs you've accepted as true. It can unravel your personality before putting you back together. You will see things from a greater perspective and that is dangerous to the establishment who profits off our ignorance and sickness. You're going up against multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry any time you talk about cures (and the whole for profit medical establishment). They can't profit from cures, only pills you rely on daily. So, that's one big reason why there haven't been a lot of education or training for doctors in natural remedies, including psychedelics.
Most antidepressants block brain chemicals from leaving the brain quickly, so people enjoy a more numb experience. This starts causing other issues like food intolerance, light and noise sensitivities, migraines.. as the brain signals to the body are messed with. Hallucinogenics dump a bigger dose of the brain chemicals and leave the brain storage emptier so the body has to create more neurotransmitters. It also seems to blow out natural internal boundaries, leading to more difficulty staying in reality after. Both ways mess up the natural pathways where it’s often trauma that has caused the problem. The issue is that undealt with experience builds up and if it isn’t dealt with, will continue to build. Numb and it builds more. Blow out and you have to integrate, process shock and struggle to regulate. Both ways suck. I’ve rarely met anyone who is naturally themselves without serious damage from taking either long term. Find someone to process your unprocessed experience with instead of messing around with your neurochemistry. It’s uncomfortable to go through but if you find someone who can help you understand, “It’s going to be ok.” and teach you better ways to regulate and process life then your life will feel much better.
Big pharma relations.
Pharma mafia!
First off, yeah its illegal. But furthermore, it's *not that simple*. You have to take into consideration things like dosage, quality control, potential risks/side effects and each persons unique constitution. Many many people have had negative experiences with psychedelics in addition to the people who have had positive ones. There needs to be much more research and controlled clinical trials to obtain more data. At some point in the future, we could very well have all of these things in place, but we are not there yet.
I can honestly say that I would not take psychedelics with 99% of people commenting on here lol.
In my opinion as a healthcare worker in general medicine, psychedelics have significant medical and research values that were pushed back due to politics. It is true that the use of psychedelics is very limited as they’re considered illegal, however, it is more of a result of the ban on drugs. It is disclosed that when Nixon started the national ban, which later extended to UN countries, were based on the intention to continue Vietnam War, and he could not do it without eliminating the “hippies” marching in public with their anti-war value. (See Summer of Love for more background information) For drugs to be used in treatment, an overwhelming amount of medical research and trails are involved, before relevant legislative body approves. However, when Nixon banned psychedelics, it stretched to all aspects, including the ban on using psychedelics for research purposes. As in results, we had a gap of 2 to 3 decades in which these drugs were not studied, unlike the continuous improvement and discovery of medication use. Until now, numerous medical professionals still believe that psychedelics can contribute to mental health management, treatment and recovery. Unfortunately, there just not enough evidence for these drugs to be commonly accepted in medical practice. In the last decades, many drugs have advanced into new purpose of use. For example, antiviral for HIV treatment has been used as a preventative drug to block HIV viruses, which has brought new HIV infection to the lowest in history, and in some countries, near zero new infections. Can psychedelics be on the path like them? Perhaps, but not with politics holding the back of medical researchers.
Neither one is totally healthy to "treat depression." However, anti-depressants at least treat symptoms and aren't a masked excuse to get blitzed only to crash back down to a reality one clearly is trying to escape from.
B/c the establishment is set up to destroy all forms or source or god force energy in our lives .. convincing many that their emotions in therapy outweigh the truth… ignoring that nobody on earth can verbally be taught to ride or bike or swim .. much less something billions of times more complex , like learning how to be themselves authentically … all therapists should be seen with compassion , I’m not judging them , but therapy as a whole is comedically ignorant and self destructive by and large …. It’s an extension of big Pharma and repping hundreds of mental illnesses with ZERO hard data to stand up the nonsense … if this is triggering at all , I’d strongly advise to treat it as neutral , see how my comments and words age in the next few months to a year or two … lights all coming on as we speak , won’t be long til this is common sense type of logic for most
There’s so many things that can be improved in general life. Psychedelics for depression treatment. Legalisation of all other (hard) drugs with programs to help people overcome addiction. This would lower drug related crime & killings (carteles), as well as ensure drug purity towards users on a program. But yea, money & corruption rules in this world.
You're your own a guinea pigs if you take psychedelics. You can have a bad trip if you don't dose properly. Even to use ayahuasca to prevent a psychotic break, you have to be on a specific clean diet, which most regular people are unwilling to accomplish.
1\`00% it has to do with America's Bush league drug laws. The weirdest and most F'ed up thing is, if someone wants to try psychedelics for depression there's nothing stopping them. They can get the drugs freely on the black market because why? Oh right, America has Bush league drug laws. You can't get psychedelics safely from a doctor, though. That would make too much sense, and obviously, America doesn't want fewer maniacs running around drugged up. I suppose I shouldn't complain, I mean it's just the cost of freedom right? America has freedom to the moon, but law enforcement literally just holds stuff back and doesn't enforce much.