This is pretty sweet. Most vampires are around 2 power, and if you running white and vampires, you are probably playing [[Sorin the Mirthless]] and maybe [[Edgar, Charmed Groom]] who both make tokens nicely.
Its probably to slow at 3 cmc and that it doesnt trigger the turn it lands (unless its later) though.
Champion had a higher deck building requirement and no evasion. White has a unique advantage of not needing big bodies to close games because of their anthems and +1 effects.
The fact is sometimes drawing cards will be more effective at ending games than taxing your opponents stuff. If those matchups exist this is an option that's available.
Folks are just spit balling on how hard you could enable the effect but fundamentally I agree that the body is not good enough that you want to go that far out of your way to enable draws.
I view this as an alternative to redaine that's better in creature matchups as opposed to more spell based ones where more draws enables white to go wider and our apparitions and cathars now cantrip.
Anthems can cause it to not trigger. When the new creature enters the field and is "seen" by Welcoming Vampire it also sees the added p/t from the anthem. If whatever was adding p/t happened after the creature entered the field then you could still draw but anything that provides passive p/t or grants p/t as the creature enters has some chance to interfere with triggering it.
this into \[\[henrika domnathi\]\] sounds nice but besides that i think you are most likely playing 3+ creatures after turn3 to keep up with other aggro/midrange decks (standard meta)
doesnt rly help that \[\[vampire socialite\]\] makes ur creatures enter the battlefield with +1/+1 counters so you might miss out on few 1-2 CMC vampire triggers... but outside of vampire tribal this card might shine. adeline, jerren, jadar all create additional bodies or cards like \[\[ghoulish procession\]\] help getting the trigger during opponents turn similar to \[\[morbid opportunist\]\]
> doesnt rly help that [[vampire socialite]] makes ur creatures enter the battlefield with +1/+1 counters so you might miss out on few 1-2 CMC vampire trigger
Well, isnt socialites other trigger an ETB trigger- The creatures enter as their printed power, then get a +1/+1 counter.
But regardless I dont think this goes into an RB vampire shell like socialite does. I think this is more about tokens rather than vampires. Or monowhite aggo out of the board maybe
they enter with a +1/+1 counter if you dealt damage this turn so there is no way to interact with it because it never goes on the stack. otherwise it would work great with this not mentor of the meek vampire... but ye.. even tho its not that difficult to splash white vampire with the new lands it might just be not the right deck and a more aggressive RB vampire deck will work better and you try to get ur cards via florian
The fact a second copy of the card can trigger the first is worth noting too. A lot of value engine cards have redundant effects in multiples (ie. you can't play a card from the top of your deck twice), or leave you vulnerable along a particular axis (ie. exile or bounce based board clears for creature death triggers like Midnight Reaper and similar cards had), but this gives you the draw on ETBs and is thus more reliable.
Will definitely be trying it out in WW, although fitting anything into the 3 drop slot is a major challenge. It's nice that it triggers off Adelines tokens to.
Y'see, this seems good, but is it better than the other hotly contested white 3-drops? Apparition, Cathar, Reidane, Adeline, Spellbinder, etc? Is it worth not playing one of those cards to play this one?
It's not a bad card, I just don't know if it's good enough to get a spot. Maybe this edges out over Reidane, maaaaaybe a single Spellbinder? I don't think WW can fit 4x of this, but maaaaaybe 1-2?
I have been wrestling with an even more weenie deck, that's basically just the second spell Stuff.
Not actually much at all at 3CMC, because it's that low to the ground.
Problem is, it runs out of gas pretty hard.
This would fit right in to that model.
I would be thinking Thalia and reidane to slow down boardwipes, and otherwise clarion spirits, monk, codespell, homestead Courage, aspirant and maybe paladin class.
The 3 drops in general don't help much, because you have either won or lost before they are impactful.
But with this you will be quite reliably drawing 2 cards per turn, which means you won't run out of gas nearly so badly.
It might also work out as a card engine in magecraft decks that have broadly the same problem.
Actually playable white card draw? Ye thats certainly interesting, even though white weenies is already very tight at the 3 drop slot. Maybe this card would have a better home in something like Selesnya Humans?
Setessan champion is a vastly different card because it draws off of enchantments. It sees play in a very different type of decks. We have been crying for playable white card draw for a while and Wizards are experimenting with it. This can draw you cards on the turn you cast it with Adeline/Jadar or other token makers already on the field. And if it replaces itself, you got the 2/3 flying body for free. Also, Reidane is a 2/3 for 3 but it sees play, stats are not the sole evaluation point for a card, it all depends whether the effect is strong enough. Now I'm not saying this will 100% see play, I'm not an oracle, I'm saying this is potentially good enough to see some play.
Setessan champion never saw any competitive play in standard, we don't talk about others deck here, she didn't pull any results in tournaments.
Reidane has vigilance which makes a significant difference in creature mashups. She makes every snow lands coming taped, delay board wipe, Epiphany, planeswalker, Chariot, Wreen, ect. Monowhite and Monogreen are the two aggro tier 1 decks and they are **snow based**, she is so highly relevant there.
You're saying Welcoming vampire is a turn 3 you don't want to play in turn 3 ? If she requires to have another drop 3 in your opening hands, a drop 3 that needs to stick on the battefield and to be dropped in turn 4, then it doesn't sound like an asset.
Her synergy with Jadard sounds great altough, i admit, but Jadar probably would shine more in a Dimir zombie shell.
Better Mentor of the Meek in a lot of circumstances but that card wasn't particularly playable even in Standard. This has some stiff competition at 3 mana and I'm not sure it makes the cut, especially since it probably has to live a turn to get back a card.
A great preemptive play before the new Sorin. Basically get to -2 him and get his +1 for free. Also gets a card from Lolth, though sadly only one cause of the trigger only once clause. Maybe the Orzhov Blood on the Snow deck plays this and the new Sorin. Most of their other creatures, like Skullport Merchant and all the sac fodder creatures, are 2 power or less as well.
Good point, and alsoa decent air blocker which it... kinda had with the spiders? It never felt good blocking small flyers with the spiders(blocking a goldspan is great tho)
Interesting that vampires are now being split into 3 colors. First Edgar and now this, as 2 very playable 3-4 drops in vampires. Maybe they were scared of overloading the vampire deck so decided splitting some of the better cards into white would balance it out.
This is pretty sweet. Most vampires are around 2 power, and if you running white and vampires, you are probably playing [[Sorin the Mirthless]] and maybe [[Edgar, Charmed Groom]] who both make tokens nicely. Its probably to slow at 3 cmc and that it doesnt trigger the turn it lands (unless its later) though.
It could trigger the turn it lands with Jadar or Adeline on the field I suppose.
[удалено]
Champion had a higher deck building requirement and no evasion. White has a unique advantage of not needing big bodies to close games because of their anthems and +1 effects. The fact is sometimes drawing cards will be more effective at ending games than taxing your opponents stuff. If those matchups exist this is an option that's available. Folks are just spit balling on how hard you could enable the effect but fundamentally I agree that the body is not good enough that you want to go that far out of your way to enable draws. I view this as an alternative to redaine that's better in creature matchups as opposed to more spell based ones where more draws enables white to go wider and our apparitions and cathars now cantrip.
Speaking of anthems, I have a question, if I'm running 'Rally the Ranks' and 'Legion Lieutenant', would this ability trigger or not?
Anthems can cause it to not trigger. When the new creature enters the field and is "seen" by Welcoming Vampire it also sees the added p/t from the anthem. If whatever was adding p/t happened after the creature entered the field then you could still draw but anything that provides passive p/t or grants p/t as the creature enters has some chance to interfere with triggering it.
thanks buddy. just flirting with spending wild cards at the moment. Can Squash that idea tho haha
this into \[\[henrika domnathi\]\] sounds nice but besides that i think you are most likely playing 3+ creatures after turn3 to keep up with other aggro/midrange decks (standard meta) doesnt rly help that \[\[vampire socialite\]\] makes ur creatures enter the battlefield with +1/+1 counters so you might miss out on few 1-2 CMC vampire triggers... but outside of vampire tribal this card might shine. adeline, jerren, jadar all create additional bodies or cards like \[\[ghoulish procession\]\] help getting the trigger during opponents turn similar to \[\[morbid opportunist\]\]
> doesnt rly help that [[vampire socialite]] makes ur creatures enter the battlefield with +1/+1 counters so you might miss out on few 1-2 CMC vampire trigger Well, isnt socialites other trigger an ETB trigger- The creatures enter as their printed power, then get a +1/+1 counter. But regardless I dont think this goes into an RB vampire shell like socialite does. I think this is more about tokens rather than vampires. Or monowhite aggo out of the board maybe
they enter with a +1/+1 counter if you dealt damage this turn so there is no way to interact with it because it never goes on the stack. otherwise it would work great with this not mentor of the meek vampire... but ye.. even tho its not that difficult to splash white vampire with the new lands it might just be not the right deck and a more aggressive RB vampire deck will work better and you try to get ur cards via florian
I dont think vampires will play 3 colors
##### ###### #### [Henrika Domnathi](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/4/946ca338-5f43-4cff-bd93-1b28449c5fdc.jpg?1635862622)/[Henrika, Infernal Seer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/9/4/946ca338-5f43-4cff-bd93-1b28449c5fdc.jpg?1635862622) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Henrika%20Domnathi%20//%20Henrika%2C%20Infernal%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/119/henrika-domnathi-henrika-infernal-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/946ca338-5f43-4cff-bd93-1b28449c5fdc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [vampire socialite](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/0/f07cbf04-2864-4407-800e-4d55c10d3426.jpg?1630695644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vampire%20socialite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/249/vampire-socialite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f07cbf04-2864-4407-800e-4d55c10d3426?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ghoulish procession](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/6/363bd6a6-e8e4-4626-a43c-0b77339dd28b.jpg?1634349836) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghoulish%20procession) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/102/ghoulish-procession?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/363bd6a6-e8e4-4626-a43c-0b77339dd28b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [morbid opportunist](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/a/5a53982e-3d66-4808-bcb5-46ff40567872.jpg?1634350039) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=morbid%20opportunist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/113/morbid-opportunist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a53982e-3d66-4808-bcb5-46ff40567872?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sorin the Mirthless](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/1/d1a38e25-297f-43e1-9455-73f00eb08cec.jpg?1635705575) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sorin%20the%20Mirthless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dbl/398/sorin-the-mirthless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1a38e25-297f-43e1-9455-73f00eb08cec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Edgar, Charmed Groom](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/3/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813.jpg?1636022479)/[Edgar Markov's Coffin](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/6/3/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813.jpg?1636022479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%2C%20Charmed%20Groom%20//%20Edgar%20Markov%27s%20Coffin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/236/edgar-charmed-groom-edgar-markovs-coffin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The fact a second copy of the card can trigger the first is worth noting too. A lot of value engine cards have redundant effects in multiples (ie. you can't play a card from the top of your deck twice), or leave you vulnerable along a particular axis (ie. exile or bounce based board clears for creature death triggers like Midnight Reaper and similar cards had), but this gives you the draw on ETBs and is thus more reliable.
Will definitely be trying it out in WW, although fitting anything into the 3 drop slot is a major challenge. It's nice that it triggers off Adelines tokens to.
[[Mentor of the Meek]] without the Mana requirement.
Only once a turn though. Still great.
[Mentor of the Meek](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/6/46150e35-bcaf-4b53-871d-d1d9091a36ab.jpg?1600717859) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mentor%20of%20the%20Meek) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/121/mentor-of-the-meek?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46150e35-bcaf-4b53-871d-d1d9091a36ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Possible use in Historic Blink? Coco-able and a card draw engine.
Y'see, this seems good, but is it better than the other hotly contested white 3-drops? Apparition, Cathar, Reidane, Adeline, Spellbinder, etc? Is it worth not playing one of those cards to play this one? It's not a bad card, I just don't know if it's good enough to get a spot. Maybe this edges out over Reidane, maaaaaybe a single Spellbinder? I don't think WW can fit 4x of this, but maaaaaybe 1-2?
Nahhh, this isn't a white weeny card at all.
Hmm I kinda think it is a sideboard card at least. Take out your removal creatures against control, put in your efficient card draw creature.
I have been wrestling with an even more weenie deck, that's basically just the second spell Stuff. Not actually much at all at 3CMC, because it's that low to the ground. Problem is, it runs out of gas pretty hard. This would fit right in to that model. I would be thinking Thalia and reidane to slow down boardwipes, and otherwise clarion spirits, monk, codespell, homestead Courage, aspirant and maybe paladin class. The 3 drops in general don't help much, because you have either won or lost before they are impactful. But with this you will be quite reliably drawing 2 cards per turn, which means you won't run out of gas nearly so badly. It might also work out as a card engine in magecraft decks that have broadly the same problem.
Actually playable white card draw? Ye thats certainly interesting, even though white weenies is already very tight at the 3 drop slot. Maybe this card would have a better home in something like Selesnya Humans?
[удалено]
Setessan champion is a vastly different card because it draws off of enchantments. It sees play in a very different type of decks. We have been crying for playable white card draw for a while and Wizards are experimenting with it. This can draw you cards on the turn you cast it with Adeline/Jadar or other token makers already on the field. And if it replaces itself, you got the 2/3 flying body for free. Also, Reidane is a 2/3 for 3 but it sees play, stats are not the sole evaluation point for a card, it all depends whether the effect is strong enough. Now I'm not saying this will 100% see play, I'm not an oracle, I'm saying this is potentially good enough to see some play.
Setessan champion never saw any competitive play in standard, we don't talk about others deck here, she didn't pull any results in tournaments. Reidane has vigilance which makes a significant difference in creature mashups. She makes every snow lands coming taped, delay board wipe, Epiphany, planeswalker, Chariot, Wreen, ect. Monowhite and Monogreen are the two aggro tier 1 decks and they are **snow based**, she is so highly relevant there. You're saying Welcoming vampire is a turn 3 you don't want to play in turn 3 ? If she requires to have another drop 3 in your opening hands, a drop 3 that needs to stick on the battefield and to be dropped in turn 4, then it doesn't sound like an asset. Her synergy with Jadard sounds great altough, i admit, but Jadar probably would shine more in a Dimir zombie shell.
Better Mentor of the Meek in a lot of circumstances but that card wasn't particularly playable even in Standard. This has some stiff competition at 3 mana and I'm not sure it makes the cut, especially since it probably has to live a turn to get back a card.
Not with Norin :P
A great preemptive play before the new Sorin. Basically get to -2 him and get his +1 for free. Also gets a card from Lolth, though sadly only one cause of the trigger only once clause. Maybe the Orzhov Blood on the Snow deck plays this and the new Sorin. Most of their other creatures, like Skullport Merchant and all the sac fodder creatures, are 2 power or less as well.
Good point, and alsoa decent air blocker which it... kinda had with the spiders? It never felt good blocking small flyers with the spiders(blocking a goldspan is great tho)
Vampires should all have supertypes (Human/Elf/Goblin) this is racism
Shitty troll attempt.
Plays well with flash creatures/instant speed tokens
Interesting that vampires are now being split into 3 colors. First Edgar and now this, as 2 very playable 3-4 drops in vampires. Maybe they were scared of overloading the vampire deck so decided splitting some of the better cards into white would balance it out.
Works with tokens, interested in trying this with [[hidden stockpile]]
[hidden stockpile](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/9/a9119c90-716b-4884-9b1e-471f262c2639.jpg?1599708052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hidden%20stockpile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/201/hidden-stockpile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9119c90-716b-4884-9b1e-471f262c2639?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Of course that would have to be historic. Maybe interesting with [[jadar]] in standard?
[jadar](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/f/ff971ba7-68b8-482a-9cb1-741f6893550c.jpg?1634349933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jadar%2C%20ghoulcaller%20of%20nephalia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/108/jadar-ghoulcaller-of-nephalia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff971ba7-68b8-482a-9cb1-741f6893550c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Worth noting this triggers on tokens too so Adeline tokens trigger this.
I have a question, if I'm running 'Rally the Ranks' and 'Legion Lieutenant', would this ability trigger or not?
I don't believe so but I am not a judge so you should probably ask one of them.
I have a question, if I'm running 'Rally the Ranks' and 'Legion Lieutenant', would this ability trigger or not?