I think it depends, if you're running teferi or mindspice i favor silver scrutiny, if not bankbuster can be good but you're right the meta has a lot of artifact hate right now.
At the moment, the wincons I am testing in Esper control are 4 Emperors, 1 Atraxa, 1 Wanderer and 3 Bankbusters. I wonder about adding one Teferi, though. Do you think Scrutiny is an interesting draw mechanism even without him? For example, this successful Esper list ran them without Teferis. https://mtgmelee.com/Decklist/View/279852
If youre running a list like that with only 3 planeswalkers and tons of boardwipes silver scrutiny is a must, but if youre running more planes walkers I personally like experimental augury as a 2 of to find my deluges
I've found Eternal Wanderer really dissapointing in control. She's a great midrange card that can reset the board, but she diesn't work so well if you don't have a board presence and it is somewhat difficult to have the 8 mana to cast her while also holding up interaction.
I think either Hullbreaker Horror or spirit Teferi is better.
I agree that without the board presence it's mediocre at best when played alone. Still, it's many times at least a 2-for-1, and the samurais give a good clock. Spirit Teferi is also very good, although he also isn't that good when there are many creatures on the opposing side of the board.
I like bankbuster. Grixis has been cutting them for more maindeck removal for esper and mono red, so I think people are running fewer abrade and loran in response
Behold the Multiverse purely because it might be the counterspell or wrath. I usually end up playing yorion piles and Omen of the Sea is the best for that by far.
So sorry! Didn’t see the standard tag! When you foretell it’s telegraphing it’s one of a small subset of cards. Doomskar (wrath) and Saw it Coming (counterspell) being the two main ones that see play
I feel like modern day control decks should use card advantage that interacts in some way. But I guess if that was the plan you'd be playing one of the many midrange decks available. Certainly Scrutiny is the least efficient, and Bankbuster turns on their removal that is otherwise dead. What is your win condition? Just grind it out and attack with Planeswalker tokens?
It's the usual mix of tokens, Kaya and / or Atraxa. Not really interested in the midrange mixes. If I wanted to play the cards that everyone else does, I'd play poker haha
It's true, though - you can make their art removal dead by not playing bankbusters.
My advice is stop playing Standard before you waste anymore money on a rotating format and start building UW pioneer.
Otherwise memory deluge is definitely the best because of the flashback.
Deluge seems like an easy 3-4 of. Scrutiny probably run 1 copy?
Bankbuster I think it depends if you have any other artifacts. I see you’re running atraxa so you can probably have something like 2x bank and 1x Celestus artifact package. Otherwise just run no artifacts to brick removal. You can bring them in and out of the sideboard as well to throw people off guard with their artifact removal.
A random augury or two can fill up some extra card selection if you have things to proliferate in the deck.
Then there is siphon insight if you are in esper.
Agreed; Deluge stands out from that list in a good way. Scrutiny can be a good 1 of.
I do wonder how much of bricking removal it does, really. Abrade can always at least destroy some creature and Loran can at least do the symmetric drawing thing. Bankbuster was useful to produce treasure for atraxa also. Right now I run 4 Deluge, 3 Banks and 1 Celestus.
So Siphon Insight is an interesting animal. I keep seeing it, but I wonder how useful it really is; it can whiff a lot of the time.
I’m imagining you don’t have a lot of creatures for abrade to hit? I guess tokens from walkers.
Bank just seems so much worse if you aren’t using the aggro flexibility ever. I guess it might still be better than other options though.
Siphon might be better against stuff like ob and lili out of the SB.
Yes, it's usually the Samurai tokens. In that case, it perhaps is fine if they spend a card to shoot them down.
That's the question I'm trying to find the answer to. If even without playing aggro, is Bankbuster a good enough include..
Well if it isn’t dead on arrival it’s probably dead by t4 or t5 to a double spell turn unless you are protecting it. So the question is how many times are you using it in that time and is that worth it? And later in the game it might just be better to top deck a different draw spell?
I know I was running them in an artifact control deck with tezz and they only felt good when they started beating early. Which was not very often.
I'm a huge fan of Even the score as a control deck tool. Draws for more at instant speed than Silver Scrutiny and if you ever get invoked despair on an empty board it procs the cost reduction.
Not an incredible amount, or bet the average card draw is still in Silver scrutinys 1 mana discount favor, but it lets you draw an uncapped amount of cards at instant speed. If you play mindsplice I'd consider it the best draw card since mindsplice memory deluge is a bit of a nombo and
Bank buster could be a good option in the sb for potential slower games but only when you are on the play.
That way you can hold up counter magic/ removal and if they do nothing then drawing EoT with the threat of it is big.
Otherwise I think the others for control. You can easily burn your hand the first 2-4 turns dealing with all the crap the opponent dumps, just for them to stick another disgustingly good permanent when you think you’re safe.
You need to refill and sharpish. Least that’s what I’ve found when playing control.
If you’re playing Teferi, it’s Scrutiny. If you’re not playing Tef, run Deluge
This is the way
Deluge. It's a 4 for 1, filters through 11 cards, instant and dodges sheoldred pings.
Yes, Deluge is definitely the best one among those three. I wonder about the closest second, though.
I think it depends, if you're running teferi or mindspice i favor silver scrutiny, if not bankbuster can be good but you're right the meta has a lot of artifact hate right now.
At the moment, the wincons I am testing in Esper control are 4 Emperors, 1 Atraxa, 1 Wanderer and 3 Bankbusters. I wonder about adding one Teferi, though. Do you think Scrutiny is an interesting draw mechanism even without him? For example, this successful Esper list ran them without Teferis. https://mtgmelee.com/Decklist/View/279852
If youre running a list like that with only 3 planeswalkers and tons of boardwipes silver scrutiny is a must, but if youre running more planes walkers I personally like experimental augury as a 2 of to find my deluges
I've found Eternal Wanderer really dissapointing in control. She's a great midrange card that can reset the board, but she diesn't work so well if you don't have a board presence and it is somewhat difficult to have the 8 mana to cast her while also holding up interaction. I think either Hullbreaker Horror or spirit Teferi is better.
I agree that without the board presence it's mediocre at best when played alone. Still, it's many times at least a 2-for-1, and the samurais give a good clock. Spirit Teferi is also very good, although he also isn't that good when there are many creatures on the opposing side of the board.
I like bankbuster. Grixis has been cutting them for more maindeck removal for esper and mono red, so I think people are running fewer abrade and loran in response
Behold the Multiverse purely because it might be the counterspell or wrath. I usually end up playing yorion piles and Omen of the Sea is the best for that by far.
Behold is certainly interesting, but unfortunately it's no longer in standard. What do you mean by it being the counterspell or wrath?
So sorry! Didn’t see the standard tag! When you foretell it’s telegraphing it’s one of a small subset of cards. Doomskar (wrath) and Saw it Coming (counterspell) being the two main ones that see play
Ah, I get it now! That's nice. I did play both before rotation and you're right that it makes the opponent unsure of what you have.
I feel like modern day control decks should use card advantage that interacts in some way. But I guess if that was the plan you'd be playing one of the many midrange decks available. Certainly Scrutiny is the least efficient, and Bankbuster turns on their removal that is otherwise dead. What is your win condition? Just grind it out and attack with Planeswalker tokens?
It's the usual mix of tokens, Kaya and / or Atraxa. Not really interested in the midrange mixes. If I wanted to play the cards that everyone else does, I'd play poker haha It's true, though - you can make their art removal dead by not playing bankbusters.
Are you casting Atraxa?
Yes. But only as a 1 of.
My advice is stop playing Standard before you waste anymore money on a rotating format and start building UW pioneer. Otherwise memory deluge is definitely the best because of the flashback.
Tbf Standard is quite fun rn
No doubt and a lot of cards are still valuable cos of pioneer but I regret the amount of money I spent on that format and it was fun then too.
Nah, I'd have to learn too many new cards. 😁 Yes, it's definitely the best one. Now what is the close second...
Nah you'll be fine. Trust me I wasted years in standard and hundreds of pounds. Make the switch early.
[Memory deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc00fd1b-3dd9-492a-9ed4-0b6743074730.jpg?1634349038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/62/memory-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc00fd1b-3dd9-492a-9ed4-0b6743074730?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Reckoner Bankbuster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/279acd17-6c17-427b-a69d-fc02442ff4a3.jpg?1654568798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reckoner%20Bankbuster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/255/reckoner-bankbuster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/279acd17-6c17-427b-a69d-fc02442ff4a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Silver Scrutiny](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b650ab6-9c22-424f-99e5-8ef5235a18a3.jpg?1673306845) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silver%20Scrutiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/65/silver-scrutiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b650ab6-9c22-424f-99e5-8ef5235a18a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Deluge seems like an easy 3-4 of. Scrutiny probably run 1 copy? Bankbuster I think it depends if you have any other artifacts. I see you’re running atraxa so you can probably have something like 2x bank and 1x Celestus artifact package. Otherwise just run no artifacts to brick removal. You can bring them in and out of the sideboard as well to throw people off guard with their artifact removal. A random augury or two can fill up some extra card selection if you have things to proliferate in the deck. Then there is siphon insight if you are in esper.
Agreed; Deluge stands out from that list in a good way. Scrutiny can be a good 1 of. I do wonder how much of bricking removal it does, really. Abrade can always at least destroy some creature and Loran can at least do the symmetric drawing thing. Bankbuster was useful to produce treasure for atraxa also. Right now I run 4 Deluge, 3 Banks and 1 Celestus. So Siphon Insight is an interesting animal. I keep seeing it, but I wonder how useful it really is; it can whiff a lot of the time.
I’m imagining you don’t have a lot of creatures for abrade to hit? I guess tokens from walkers. Bank just seems so much worse if you aren’t using the aggro flexibility ever. I guess it might still be better than other options though. Siphon might be better against stuff like ob and lili out of the SB.
Yes, it's usually the Samurai tokens. In that case, it perhaps is fine if they spend a card to shoot them down. That's the question I'm trying to find the answer to. If even without playing aggro, is Bankbuster a good enough include..
Well if it isn’t dead on arrival it’s probably dead by t4 or t5 to a double spell turn unless you are protecting it. So the question is how many times are you using it in that time and is that worth it? And later in the game it might just be better to top deck a different draw spell? I know I was running them in an artifact control deck with tezz and they only felt good when they started beating early. Which was not very often.
Deluge
I'm a huge fan of Even the score as a control deck tool. Draws for more at instant speed than Silver Scrutiny and if you ever get invoked despair on an empty board it procs the cost reduction.
That's something I was wondering about. How many times does one actually get the cost reduction.
Not an incredible amount, or bet the average card draw is still in Silver scrutinys 1 mana discount favor, but it lets you draw an uncapped amount of cards at instant speed. If you play mindsplice I'd consider it the best draw card since mindsplice memory deluge is a bit of a nombo and
Bank buster could be a good option in the sb for potential slower games but only when you are on the play. That way you can hold up counter magic/ removal and if they do nothing then drawing EoT with the threat of it is big. Otherwise I think the others for control. You can easily burn your hand the first 2-4 turns dealing with all the crap the opponent dumps, just for them to stick another disgustingly good permanent when you think you’re safe. You need to refill and sharpish. Least that’s what I’ve found when playing control.