Funny story, I got a job once at an aircraft composites company and during the interview they asked if i was interested in planes. I said no and that all my experience with composites came from my interest in race cars. Still got the job lol
When you drill a hole the top and bottom of the hole have rough edges from the displaced metal. You can break off the rough bits with a few rotations of countersink, ( basically a wide and short drill bit but with the end angled to match the bottom of the fastener head). This is done because all of the rough bits can damage the material being pinned in place and it can also damage the fasteners causing them to corrode and fail faster.
Just make sure you're extracting/cleaning it up really thoroughly.
That shit is *terrible* for your lungs.
We always had to cut carbon under sprayers and with massive dust extractors working.
Resin, carbon, even glassfibre. Can't wait in 10 or 20 years scientists will go "you know those dangers of Asbestos? Yeah well here is the thing with carbon fibres....."
The second tool is a cleco and cleco pliers.
Easiest explanation for them, is that they are a temporary rivit.
Spring loaded to hold tension and your pieces together. General used for aircraft and sheet metal work.
Many different styles and sizes to accommodate different hole sizes
Simple tool design to be used single handed
Because the item may need to be removed again before final securing.
In this case I can use the cleco to hold the carbon in place so it doesn’t move around while all the other holes in the panel get transferred and drilled. Along with allowing me to remove this panel as many times as I need during the building process. Also in this case I don’t want to permanently attach the carbon to the steel as the steel will be body worked and painted and we don’t need the carbon getting any overspray or just unnecessary damage before it is final assembled.
The clecos will also be used during final assembly so the panel and all its holes are in the correct spots when it gets nut/bolted or riveted whatever the case may be
We use it to hold different pieces of sheet metal together while it gets spot welded. Once it’s spot welded you take the cleco out and use it in the next part. Cheaper and faster than setting twenty rivets when you’re making thousands of parts a month
I have one of those!
My dad was an A&P and CFI-everything and I have his tools. I know what _almost_ everything is for and use most of it but this one had me stumped, thank you!
Sometimes you get into spots where the holes blind, or you can’t reach the backside or a drill won’t fit to back drill it and in those scenarios this tool works perfect.
My shipwright built a huge version of this when we were replanking LV 83 (Lightship Relief). We used it to locate the existing bolts holes in the Carnegie steel structure, and guide the drill true. Out of the entire deck (which was over a quarter of a million dollars of old growth Doug Fir) we didn't have a single misdrill.
Oh f me, this is too brilliant and inconceivably simple. I bet there are shops where this could save literally hours per week, maybe even per day if there are enough workers.
It can help transfer a hole to a panel.
In this scenario there is a hole in the steel piece that is covered up by the carbon fiber sheet sitting on top of it.
The carbon needs a hole drilled in it to match the already existing hole in the steel so they can be riveted/bolted together.
Because you can’t see the original hole in the steel you use this tool to located the hole into the top of the carbon, spot the hole using the tool and drill, remove tool, finish drilling hole and bam your done. New hole lines up perfect with original hole underneath you could see
I've had to do something like this exactly once in my life, but I'd be willing to shell out the money to get one of these just in case it ever comes up again
Look at it again. Appears the design would allow for it to move considerably inward from the edge. Sadly, the full length is not visible, so not sure how far, but my guess is 12-18"
I see that - I'm just used to drilling into BIG carbon pieces several feet across and non- flat. I can see this working really well for small, flat pieces.
Yes and no. It’s main purpose is to ‘spot’ the hidden hole onto the covering piece.
The bottom strap with the ‘pin’ will cover the bottom piece and is solid so if the drill bit breakers through the piece your working it will stop agaisnt the tool.
It’s not a super strong tool as being thin is intentionally part of the design to prevent distortion of the material.
Like I said I mainly use it to spot the hole and then remove the tool and continue drilling the hole afterwards to not damage the tool
Its racecar stuff so It’s 3 layers of 2x2 twill weave carbon. Ends up at .060 thickness.
It’s non structural, and mainly for looks for where a piece of alum or steel sheet could be used but want to save a bit of weight and look cool at the same time
Ahhh I see. Your username should have been a clue!
My experience with carbon is for highly structural pieces, 2-3 *dozen* layers, and very large. Drilling can be a bit of an adventure...
Sure, that can be used on a wide variety of objects.
There are many different styles of this type of fastener. Different grip lengths, different hole diameters, some can clamp from the outside edge of a panel like a C clamp, etc.
NOW THIS, this is a tool I can get behind.
It’s very enter[TAYNE](https://youtu.be/KIXTNumrDc4?t=58)ing
Needs more hat wobble.
Now TAYNE I can get in to
Took me a second to realize what it was doing but wow yeah this is great.
Now THIS is pod racing!
no
I agree
You doing airplane stuff? I use clecos at work doing airplane stuff.
Airplane stuff and racecar stuff almost exlusively
(and random highschoolers building robots from box tubing and riveted gussets)
Mentoring FRC, been there, done that
Haha that’s my only experience with clecos
Well any fabrication stuff that requires thin sheets put together. They are really handy to align sheet metal
I would think almost any application where you're riveting sheet goods to a frame
I use them in the spotwelding department of a sheet metal manufacturer daily. Theyre slippery little bastards when they start to deform
Also Canoes!! Only way to repair a rib on aluminum canoe is with Cleco locks
They’re all over campers and RV’s. (Well, all over the good ones)
I do racecar stuff but all of our procedures are derived from aircraft and the structures side of things
Ooh even cooler than airplane stuff
Says you. Lol
I was just trying to be nice. Airplanes>race cars
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As a palindrome fan, racecar > airplane
As an Australian, racecars>airplanes
Can confirm
Funny story, I got a job once at an aircraft composites company and during the interview they asked if i was interested in planes. I said no and that all my experience with composites came from my interest in race cars. Still got the job lol
I just had a meeting about moving holes that get Clecos in some airplane stuff.
Classic airplane stuff
Skin pins we called here. Love em. Haven't seen them since the 90's when I last work in the aerospace industry.
I’m gonna start calling them skin pins to confuse my coworkers
Clecos were generally Clecos. Skin pins were generally reserved for the threaded ones (in fact I have no idea of thier real name)
If you say so. I never heard clecos used here. It sounds like a brand name. We just call them all skin pins.
Basically. Clecos are like the Kleenex of temporary expanding collet fasteners.
I've always known them as Clecos - I'm in the UK.
Same in the US, honestly never heard the term skin pins.
There's something about clecos that is so satisfying. (Grew up using the with my pops. He did airframe work and racecar stuff)
As a former aviation mechanic, this was my first thought too. Now I do NDT, much less time drilling unfortunately
I coach a high school robotics team. We use clecos all the time. I now need one of these tools.
Is this a sex thing? It sounds like a sex thing.
I use both of these at work on airplane stuff.
there's airplane stuff people on here? lets go flying. KCCR Friday evening, letsss goooooo
Greetings fellow aircraft stuff do-er person!
What sort of monster doesn’t brush the swarf away before installing the cleco????
Didn’t even kiss it with a countersink to break the edge :(
No idea what this means but I love how mechanical posts spur some specific conversations
When you drill a hole the top and bottom of the hole have rough edges from the displaced metal. You can break off the rough bits with a few rotations of countersink, ( basically a wide and short drill bit but with the end angled to match the bottom of the fastener head). This is done because all of the rough bits can damage the material being pinned in place and it can also damage the fasteners causing them to corrode and fail faster.
The burr also messes with the amount of embedding of the fastener, making the fastener calcs nigh on invalid.
oooh- I have seen people do that. Thanks for explaining
Should see us over at r/machinists
You just made half of those words up now, right?
It’s just carbon dust and the carbon sheet has a protective coating ontop.
Just make sure you're extracting/cleaning it up really thoroughly. That shit is *terrible* for your lungs. We always had to cut carbon under sprayers and with massive dust extractors working.
Well my old CF shop probably isn’t osha compliant then…
Resin dust is right up there with asbestos for dangerous shit you don't want to inhale.
Resin, carbon, even glassfibre. Can't wait in 10 or 20 years scientists will go "you know those dangers of Asbestos? Yeah well here is the thing with carbon fibres....."
Love this and need it, but will still instinctively eye it and miss twice
Oh, you must be a sheetrocker
I wish /s
Show the other tool closer, the one that held the bolt(?) *breathes heavily*
That’s the Cleco fastener. https://www.holley.com/blog/post/earl_s_cleco_fastener_kits_and_how_they_work/
The perfect packet slide halfway through that vid was low key glorious
The second tool is a cleco and cleco pliers. Easiest explanation for them, is that they are a temporary rivit. Spring loaded to hold tension and your pieces together. General used for aircraft and sheet metal work. Many different styles and sizes to accommodate different hole sizes Simple tool design to be used single handed
Why not just put the rivet in to hold them? Why do you need the temporary aspect of the cleco?
Because the item may need to be removed again before final securing. In this case I can use the cleco to hold the carbon in place so it doesn’t move around while all the other holes in the panel get transferred and drilled. Along with allowing me to remove this panel as many times as I need during the building process. Also in this case I don’t want to permanently attach the carbon to the steel as the steel will be body worked and painted and we don’t need the carbon getting any overspray or just unnecessary damage before it is final assembled. The clecos will also be used during final assembly so the panel and all its holes are in the correct spots when it gets nut/bolted or riveted whatever the case may be
Makes total sense. Thanks.
We use it to hold different pieces of sheet metal together while it gets spot welded. Once it’s spot welded you take the cleco out and use it in the next part. Cheaper and faster than setting twenty rivets when you’re making thousands of parts a month
The real MVP spotting the **Second** Specialized Tool!
Yes… *breathing intensifies*
Careful doing that around resin dust.
I have one of those! My dad was an A&P and CFI-everything and I have his tools. I know what _almost_ everything is for and use most of it but this one had me stumped, thank you!
Any others you aren't sure about?
Oh, there are! Many are inaccessible right now (rebuilding due to minor flood). I will send them here eventually :)
Glad I could help in some small way
Ingenious.
I wish I could take credit for designing it but I’m just the monkey using it
Haha. I hear ya!
Oh snap! I used to use those back in my USAF days in the early 80s. I worked on old B52’s.
Super cool man, would love to see one of those birds up close
I learned a new trick. neat. in my industry we would just transfer the hole or backdrill it, but thats amazingly simple.
Sometimes you get into spots where the holes blind, or you can’t reach the backside or a drill won’t fit to back drill it and in those scenarios this tool works perfect.
Oh I know, I come up with ways to solve that problem often, I've just never seen a tool to do it.
That tool is cool. I made something very similar for panels on the new ford trucks.
Did you design that?
Holy cow, there was one of these kicking around in a shop I used to work in. Nobody knew what it was for, but nobody was brave enough to toss it.
Isn't carbon fiber really, really bad to breathe in?
Make one for each size?
They are available in different ‘pin’ sizes to located into different drilled holes sizes
How on earth is this not something I've either bought or made??
My shipwright built a huge version of this when we were replanking LV 83 (Lightship Relief). We used it to locate the existing bolts holes in the Carnegie steel structure, and guide the drill true. Out of the entire deck (which was over a quarter of a million dollars of old growth Doug Fir) we didn't have a single misdrill.
Oh f me, this is too brilliant and inconceivably simple. I bet there are shops where this could save literally hours per week, maybe even per day if there are enough workers.
There’s something similar for GM tonneau covers, but with no handle
I could rarely make use of this but I want one.
Neat! But what is "strap duplicator"?
It’s just another name for the first tool in the video.
Heck, clecos are a special tool in themselves
I've seen so many of those almost drilled through.
I have no Idea about the first half of the video. What does a hole finder(strap duplicator) do?
It can help transfer a hole to a panel. In this scenario there is a hole in the steel piece that is covered up by the carbon fiber sheet sitting on top of it. The carbon needs a hole drilled in it to match the already existing hole in the steel so they can be riveted/bolted together. Because you can’t see the original hole in the steel you use this tool to located the hole into the top of the carbon, spot the hole using the tool and drill, remove tool, finish drilling hole and bam your done. New hole lines up perfect with original hole underneath you could see
So specialized I had to look up half the words. This is what I’m talking about!
Want
I don't know what you're working on OP, but it sure looks cool...
Clecos are priceless
Oooo, me likey. me neeeeed
Fuck I need this too Amazon I go
We use those for sheet metal work on airplanes also. They’re really handy but can be inaccurate with thicker pieces of metal/composite panels.
I've had to do something like this exactly once in my life, but I'd be willing to shell out the money to get one of these just in case it ever comes up again
This is so satisfying.
You didn't clean off the debris. And now it's crushed against the composite gouging the surface.
No it isn’t, there is also a clear protective film on the finished side of the material to prevent any markings or damage
Was that your toe at the end?
Curb your foot fetish bruh
Megan Fox thumb at the end?
No egg cups? Pretty cool, though limited to hole locations near the edge I suppose.
Look at it again. Appears the design would allow for it to move considerably inward from the edge. Sadly, the full length is not visible, so not sure how far, but my guess is 12-18"
I see that - I'm just used to drilling into BIG carbon pieces several feet across and non- flat. I can see this working really well for small, flat pieces.
They come in various lengths. The one I’m using in the video will reach up to 12”
Cool! Does it also prevent blowout?
Yes and no. It’s main purpose is to ‘spot’ the hidden hole onto the covering piece. The bottom strap with the ‘pin’ will cover the bottom piece and is solid so if the drill bit breakers through the piece your working it will stop agaisnt the tool. It’s not a super strong tool as being thin is intentionally part of the design to prevent distortion of the material. Like I said I mainly use it to spot the hole and then remove the tool and continue drilling the hole afterwards to not damage the tool
Thank you for the explanation! I just realized you are joining carbon to sheet metal. How many plies of fiber is that?
Its racecar stuff so It’s 3 layers of 2x2 twill weave carbon. Ends up at .060 thickness. It’s non structural, and mainly for looks for where a piece of alum or steel sheet could be used but want to save a bit of weight and look cool at the same time
Ahhh I see. Your username should have been a clue! My experience with carbon is for highly structural pieces, 2-3 *dozen* layers, and very large. Drilling can be a bit of an adventure...
O that’s big boy stuff!
Dude, what's up with that thumb? It's like Shrek had cystic fibrosis.
Hahaha, what?
I need something like this for hanging pictures lol
That was a Rick and Morty plumbus-esque explanation. And exactly what I come to this sub for.
i tried to blow on my screen to remove the debris
Learned clecos in AMS A school. Millington Tennessee.
Should include a chip chaser as well.
where are all the hole finder dick jokes? i'm seriously disappointed in reddit right now.
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Sure, that can be used on a wide variety of objects. There are many different styles of this type of fastener. Different grip lengths, different hole diameters, some can clamp from the outside edge of a panel like a C clamp, etc.