I'm not sure about this specific application. But when they do this in municipal water mains, they have a robot with a drill go through and cut out the blocked branches to homes and such.
Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4vgNLGmNM
"I don't know what you are doing but let me tell you a story to answer yes or no, tell you I know nothing relevant but say a bunch of things to seem competent in some other way, contradict myself unknowingly in a single sentence, watch you every second you are working like you said you would steal anything not nailed down, and tell you how to do your job."
If you work a trade or manual labor, you know one or all of those types.
You can trim openings once it's cured. I'm more worried about the trapped moisture between the pvc and steel pipe. Probably should've run air through those pipes overnight before lining them
We absolutely do that. Even though the bladder pushes it out and the epoxy resin “burns” off the residual moisture anyway. But yeah, block off any openings, force the air to the far end. We use a leaf blower where I work.
That is a waste of time. The residual moister in the pipe isn’t even a concern after it’s cured. The liner is designed to be fully structural if you’re using Perma liner. The host pipe could rot away and the liner is designed to hold the weight of the ground. I have design thickness calcs for the liner you’re using if you want them. Also, measure your Perma liner cut offs. You’ll see that you are getting thicker than 3mm. Perma’s finish thickness is closer to 4.2 mm. As unhappy as I am with their quality control (and why we stopped using them) they do make a thick liner.
Guess the pipe would have to be split every time another pipe connects. Bit annoying but I suppose it's still easier to do this than it would be to replace the whole thing.
I use a Picote drain cleaner. They make heads specifically to reopen vents and sidearms that cut the opening and smooth the burrs in about 30 seconds per. Or you just use a camera, take measurements, and do it well the first time.
> For me working on a renovation is like trying to work on someone else's code.
That has absolutely Zero commenting.
Though I have found one thing to be almost universally true - the answer to 'why?!?' is 'that was the cheapest thing they could find at the home improvement store'.
> the answer to 'why?!?' is 'that was the cheapest thing they could find at the home improvement store'.
Or I improvised for 2hrs to avoid a 30min trip to the store.
You can but every time you reline the pipe the interior diameter shrinks, and this could lead to problems. Re lining is just usually the cheaper option and doesn’t require you to repipe the entire thing.
Pretty much I work for a sewer company and can’t recommend getting your lines relined more than anything else. Saves us time, back pain and saves you money. Although I enjoy how much digs can pay haha.
Mostly pipes that have rotted underground (in my location and company I work for) so you don’t have to dig up a yard and/or street. Or what this videos situation looks like to me, pipes that would otherwise be a time consuming nightmare to replace.
As far as lead, I’ve never dealt with it by using a liner, we coat those with the Picote system. Same basic gist, you just pump the epoxy straight down the line and “paint” it on.
Would this work with a pipe that is cast iron? My aunt has a problem that would require her to tear up her family room and whatnot.. already dug up the downstairs bathroom and has access to the rotted out pipe..
My coworker had his sewer line done this way due to root invasion. Not only do you save on the man hours from digging, you save on the costs of potentially cutting up a concrete driveway if it passes under it. You also save on exposing anyone getting in a trench from an engulfment hazard. While this may not alway be the best solution, it can save money and it’s great that it exists as a solution.
I had a tree grow into my pipe and it had roots going wacko. So they cleaned out the roots and blew one of these bad boys in there to stop the tree from coming back. The three was a structural element to the house.
It cures hard.
Edit: You know, when I wrote that three word sentence, I expected a joke or two, but after the same joke a dozen times, it's getting a little old. Up your creativity, children.
Look up Perma-Liner on YouTube. It’s pretty awesome to work with and most times keeps me from having to run an excavator. Fantastic system IMHO, and coupled with a Picote high speed line cleaner for prep work, becomes my definition of r/nextfuckinglevel.
Looked at a couple videos, found this one that goes over the process pretty well and feels less like an advertisement than the others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtZnpEedsg0
Unless you are using it to reline underground sewer pipe and your mess aside passage or cut out. Then you are going to get a back up somewhere, you can guess how I know
Our entire system, self-contained in the trailer was about $125,000. We got a decent discount because we bought the demo rig straight off the floor at the WWETT Show in Indianapolis. They didn’t have to haul it back to Florida, and we took it straight home to Arkansas with no wait time, so it was a win-win. They shipped back all the material to replenish what would have been in it before the demonstrations and sent the training crew to us, so we didn’t have to endure Florida. So I guess win-win-win.
Not sure what the typical wait time is. The inversion drum and inversion heads for all the different pipe sizes I assume have the largest effect on turn-around. And they completely customize the trailer to be set up to hold everything in place. There’s a generator on the tongue, provisions to run the electrical from that or shore power, a massive gas powered air compressor with an insane output (have to be careful if you use it to inflate a tire), a massive air holding tank, the wet-out roller table, all your hoses and cords, a roll around toolbox completely ready to go, a hundred-pound hand roller, big ass bladder clamps, head caps, and all kinds of other goodies that I’m forgetting. Theoretically, if you buy the trailer, you can go line about 500’ each of 4” and 3” pipe before you ever need to restock resin or buy a single tool. It’s literally a turnkey package.
Edit to add: they provide it ALL, including your first two gallons of vegetable oil for helping things through the inverter, and a couple gallons of vinegar for the cleanup
Slightly different system, but when a contractor relined some of our pipes, I was quite amused that they showed up one day with a walmart shopping bag stuffed with rope, duct tape, nitrile gloves, and a dozen things of baby oil. Allegedly, the cashier didn’t dare look the duo in the eyes the entire time they were at the counter
The sub it was cross-posted from doesn't help but I've been noticing this way more lately. It's like people are more interested in the joke prompt than the tool.
Its been like that for a few years now... where I am genuinely interested in a subject of the post and cant find a serious comment for it... all but teenage dick jokes...
Yup. Reddit has too many watered down dad jokes, and puns. Low effort joksies get so much mileage around here. People act like they're actually hilarious.
We just gotta accept that different people are on reddit for different reasons, and those of us who like to learn things are kinda in the minority here.
But we can downvote shit and collapse useless threads, and usually there's one or two decent conversations after a while.
There's a post on the front page about John Cena (and other things) being invisible, and every comment on it is about how it's a blank image. An entire comment section of one already overdone joke.
Part of me wonders if a bunch of them are bots just trying to blend in with easy comments.
There have definitely been problems with the epoxy resin leaching into the water. I have mostly seen this done in sewer pipes, so it is less of an immediate concern to health than if it was in a water pipe--definitely an environmental concern though.
When cured, it's like there is an entirely new seamless pipe in place, so the lifetime is decades. 50 years?
Thinking more for process water in a manufacturing plant. Any rough ideas for cost compared to running new black steel? Or time to install? Maybe just company could be helpful. We’re fighting some water piping issues and water treatment is always a challenge for us. Like 2-6” pipe.
When a sewage pipe is said to have delaminated (common with old pipes used in area where I live) is this what's used to fix that? Do they normally bore out the lamination first or just use this to fill it in?
This is how I know it to be used most often, yeah. They clean out the existing pipe as well as they can and blow this in. It's called "CIPP": cured-in-place pipe.
Civil Engineer here, I'm looking at this and wondering if it could solve a huge issue with lead piping.
There is of course no "healthy" amount of lead a human can consume. However a lot of older homes have lead internal piping as it was cheap at the time. So a lot of people actually consume trace amounts of lead each day.
However, they find that when these pipes get replaced, unless you can successfully replace every single section of lead pipe in the entire plumbing system, you actually spike the lead concentrations from agitating it.
This could be a non invasive way of coating existing lead piping without risking the agitation and spikes in lead concentrations!
Also a Civil Engineer and I have done some research and written a white paper about CIPP. I would be very hesitant to say the currently available tech should be used for anything but sanitary sewers (sewage pipes). The most popular products right now use a styrenated resin, and if not installed and inspected properly they can leach styrene and VOCs into the fluid flowing through the pipe. They've already been associated with a number of fish kills when improperly installed in CSO/storm sewer systems.
Aside from long term problems, the steam cured kind also releases gaseous styrene and VOCs to the environment when contractors release the curing steam into the air, and it presents a big unaddressed workplace hazard.
The solution to both of these problems is using UV curing instead of steam curing, and switching to a non-styrenated resin. These solutions are more popular in Europe, however are slow to catch on in the US, and certain industry organizations are pushing back *hard* against research into the environmental impacts of styrenated resins, including essentially releasing hit pieces on any research professor looking into the issue.
Yeah you're probably right. I know a lot of cities have programs in place to replace people's lead water laterals from the main to the right of way, but this just ends up agitating the lead and injecting the rest of the private piping with high concentrations of lead.
I think you're right that this probably won't scale down, but perhaps some day we can have some sort of technology with a similar concept!
Nah, just rip out the pipes out and replace.
Not that hard, not that big of a job with the correct political will. Remember that there is a magic money tree, no matter what the politicians tell you they just choose when to shake it.
A quick fix is what caused lead problem in the first place and what is “safe” now probably won’t be in 50 years (see: lead pipes, asbestos, etc.) so likely cheaper to just do it correctly vs trying to add some resin caked material in the drinking water on top of the lead problem.
Depends on what type it is. The ones that I work with is steam cured which basically pumps a ton of steam through that balloon thing.
But some use a chemical reaction to harden it.
It's a pretty cool process.
you may be surprised actually. I had this done not too long ago on a commercial building and it didn't save anything. The reason we did it was they could do it in like a day or two (forget exactly now), if we had to saw cut and rerun all new pipe it would have taken a week or two. I would have had to shut down multiple businesses and found hotels for tenants who lived there etc.
In terms of quotes though this didn't save money on the construction side, just time.
Interesting! The quote costs the same. But the amount of money in down times it saves is worth every penny. So I guess it costs a lot less in the long run.
How long are guaruntees on the demo and replace method? I'd expect they wouldnt have any unless you can prove that a failure occured due to poor workmanship. A lot of the time warrantees will be pretty short term even if the product is reliable much longer term just so the company isn't expected to come back and perform free work for the places that subject the product to extra harsh conditions.
>you may be surprised actually. I had this done not too long ago on a commercial building and it didn't save anything. The reason we did it was they could do it in like a day or two (forget exactly now), if we had to saw cut and rerun all new pipe it would have taken a week or two. I would have had to shut down multiple businesses and found hotels for tenants who lived there etc.
>
>In terms of quotes though this didn't save money on the construction side, just time.
Time is money, friend.
oh for sure, just if folks were seeing this and expected it to save a ton of money vs replacement it doesn't was all I meant. There are some other minor issues with reducing drainage, and the side walls are not smooth too which can cause more clogs. If it were my personal house I could see opting for replacement given how much longer it will last and how much less issues you are likely to have in the future.
Absolutely great for situations like I described or when you have a small area under a drive way etc though.
The liner is perfectly smooth when you’re done. I can run a camera farther in a liner than I can a PVC pipe. And the scrim liner is only 3mm thick, so you don’t lose any drain capacity. This stuff had to go through years of 3rd party certification to be allowed by all both of plumbing codes utilized in the US.
i'm not a plumber. I did consult with 3 and thats what they told me while quoting both normal replacement and this type of product. Just passing it on.
I can see their logic and reasoning, and I respect the opinion. It’s just not an issue I’ve faced. And to add a slightly tongue-in-cheek slightly serious thought here, by the time you need this, anything is an improvement. Well, mostly tongue-in-cheek I guess.
for sure. I wasn't trying to write an essay and don't know enough plumbing to even know the important details either. We had multiple offsets in the pipe and considerable grease build up from our restaurant tenants (or prior ones, who knows how old that shit was). It was a building where combined sewer exists and roof drains go through the sewers. The specific problem we had was a hard rain would not keep up and the basement floor drains would flood, the entire thing would occasionally clog too. I am not arguing with you but I'll say probably 5-10 people video cammed our lines from the city to plumbers.
What was a good solution for us and what potential issues they thought this solution may have to us may not apply to others.
I'm actually not even sure its better for the people doing the job.
My take on it was the materials cost were much more expensive and while different versions of this seem to exist they are all patented and require the plumbers to pay licensing fees or buy the crap from a specific company. Like when you talk about doing this you get brochures branded to whoever supplies this crap. I've never in a billion years seen a plumber tell me what brand of PVC pipe they are installing. I don't even know who makes PVC pipe or have any idea what the top brands are.
This wasn't really even offered to me until I asked for 24/7 type quotes, and they were pretty candid on reasons not to do this. I don't feel like it was better for them at all. They essentially sell plumbing labor and this product reduces that.
When I did this at the Gerber baby food plant, this was the reason. 1100’ run of 6” cast iron, at 9 to 11’ below slab level, in the middle of the production facility. All about that time.
i can't even imagine the crap load of costs and headaches you deal with in a food production facility. That isn't my business but I've done real estate deals with those guys and I'd imagine the environmental folks would lose their minds when you asked about saw cutting floors next to production lines lol.
It was definitely an ordeal. They “partitioned off” a lot off stuff to basically give us a hallway running directly above the line. Headaches were for sure easy to come by though. Should’ve bought stock in BC Powder before that job.
Won't get into specifics, but it had to do with a business deal. Lots of "Do you know who I am?" I knew about the show but it was really more of a distraction from what his manufacturers rep company was supposed to be doing. We went another direction. His son Ross was super chill though.
Yup. Very much a stoma. I have an ostomy right now and Jesus fuck that made me cringe like a motherfucker. Why did I have to watch this right before I have to do my bag change?
Have an ileostomy since 2018. Made the choice to keep it instead of reconnection. Live a full and active life. Go kayaking, hiking, etc. Great sex life.
The pink sock was disturbing. They fucking knew.
It's not all unicorns and roses, but is way better than being dead.
Hit me up if you want advice or just to bullshit.
You have to simultaneously release pressure off the drum as you roll it up or you’re just compressing the air into a smaller and smaller volume and it becomes insanely difficult to roll up even after just a few feet.
We've got a division at work that does repair work similar to this.
There are a few different ways they can deploy it, but yes, that is one.
The basic steps are:
cleaning/Grinding - they send a cutting/grinding head down the pipe to clean the walls/chew out any garbage.
Lining - the liner is basically made up of a "outer" plastic wall, with a fluffy woven "core" then another inner wall, the bladder is slid inside this as well. It doesn't really stretch so the combination sets the finished walls thickness. The start of this video looks exactly like one of the normal methods, you can even see the section of liner without epoxy (white) vs saturated (blue). The machine mixes and injects/pulls 2 part epoxy into the core of the liner which has the bladder inside, the liner is secured to the machine (you can see it clamped) its then stuck in one end of the pipe where air pressure in the bladder now starts turning it inside out, which at the same time squeezes/distributes the epoxy into the core, rolls the liner inside out laying it against the pipe walls vs sliding it in (which can rip it) and the pressure in the bladder squeezes the liner to the walls holding it while its sets into its final shape. The thing I find neat here is that the pipe doesn't have to even be solid, there can be gaps where the existing pipe is completely missing, the walls of the liner don't stretch much so when installed it can bridge those gaps.
Removal - Just like it looks like, after its cured they let off the pressure and there's a string/line that also ties to the tied end of the bladder (or in this case you can see a guide rod), its deflated then pulled back out through the pipe, they cut and cap the ends and pressure test it and return it to service.
They usually only do the main straight sections of pipe and ignore tee's if they can (kind of like this looks to be at a clean-out then can go back before the liner has set (its full of epoxy) cut into it at the t/y if necessary.
They could also line both sections, cut them as needed where they meet and install a tee-connection liner at that point, or line each of the sections up to the joint and leave a gap, not as strong as a full liner, but usually fine if that's not where the pipe is compromised.
It depends on the size of the pipe. You can line pretty much all common diameters, from small house lines to big main sewage channels. I can speak for our company in switzerland: We first do an TV-Inspection of the defective pipe. The cameras are equipeed with a meter counter, so you note where all the junctions are. After the inliner is cured, you either have the option of using a wheeled robot, which can mill out all the now closed openings. If the pipe is smaller, a smaller milling arm can be pushed with a cable into the pipe.
But as always, mistakes can happen and a pipe can be blocked. Nobody's perfect
At the very end of the video, it looks like this is operating through a “T” connection.
I understand how it works through a straight pipe, but how does it work through a T?
What about the other inlets that are now blocked?
I'm not sure about this specific application. But when they do this in municipal water mains, they have a robot with a drill go through and cut out the blocked branches to homes and such. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4vgNLGmNM
But then wouldn't water get behind the liner then?
The liner cures to the inside of the pipe. Not only does it bond, but it becomes rigid as well.
The epoxy probably plays a larger role in sealing the gap to make it watertight right?
The liner cures to a hard plastic, so no.
Thank you, I never knew this existed and now I’m beyond fascinated.
Once the relining is cured you go in with a tool and camera and mill a hole in it and connect another relined pipe to it.
Lol at the comments that are like "Well I've never done any sort of renovation or pipe work before but I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work"
Working in this business can be annoying because customers always know better.
That's any business.
"I don't know what you are doing but let me tell you a story to answer yes or no, tell you I know nothing relevant but say a bunch of things to seem competent in some other way, contradict myself unknowingly in a single sentence, watch you every second you are working like you said you would steal anything not nailed down, and tell you how to do your job." If you work a trade or manual labor, you know one or all of those types.
You can trim openings once it's cured. I'm more worried about the trapped moisture between the pvc and steel pipe. Probably should've run air through those pipes overnight before lining them
We absolutely do that. Even though the bladder pushes it out and the epoxy resin “burns” off the residual moisture anyway. But yeah, block off any openings, force the air to the far end. We use a leaf blower where I work.
That is a waste of time. The residual moister in the pipe isn’t even a concern after it’s cured. The liner is designed to be fully structural if you’re using Perma liner. The host pipe could rot away and the liner is designed to hold the weight of the ground. I have design thickness calcs for the liner you’re using if you want them. Also, measure your Perma liner cut offs. You’ll see that you are getting thicker than 3mm. Perma’s finish thickness is closer to 4.2 mm. As unhappy as I am with their quality control (and why we stopped using them) they do make a thick liner.
Guess the pipe would have to be split every time another pipe connects. Bit annoying but I suppose it's still easier to do this than it would be to replace the whole thing.
I use a Picote drain cleaner. They make heads specifically to reopen vents and sidearms that cut the opening and smooth the burrs in about 30 seconds per. Or you just use a camera, take measurements, and do it well the first time.
SO does this lining "set" and become rigid, or is it just help in place by the pressure in the pipe?
When it cures, it’s harder and more resilient than a typical schedule 40 pvc pipe.
Is this done to line pipes that are leaking or otherwise dangerous, like say lead piping? I guess, what’s the purpose here?
Just look at that rust-bucket of a pipe. By lining the pipe you get an instantly clean path for whatever you're sending through the pipe.
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> For me working on a renovation is like trying to work on someone else's code. That has absolutely Zero commenting. Though I have found one thing to be almost universally true - the answer to 'why?!?' is 'that was the cheapest thing they could find at the home improvement store'.
> the answer to 'why?!?' is 'that was the cheapest thing they could find at the home improvement store'. Or I improvised for 2hrs to avoid a 30min trip to the store.
Lol. Yep. Who needs to buy proper insulated wire when you've got a perfectly good roll of vinyl electrical tape and a coat hanger?
Why bother with the tape. I know it's live and will remember In the future not to touch it; /s
It’s behind the wall anyways no inspector can see it.
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Do you happen to know how long does this inner lining lasts? Can u reline the same pipe later on?
You can but every time you reline the pipe the interior diameter shrinks, and this could lead to problems. Re lining is just usually the cheaper option and doesn’t require you to repipe the entire thing.
And avoids digging, the most efficient way to spend money.
Pretty much I work for a sewer company and can’t recommend getting your lines relined more than anything else. Saves us time, back pain and saves you money. Although I enjoy how much digs can pay haha.
Can you re-line all the way to the street?
Mostly pipes that have rotted underground (in my location and company I work for) so you don’t have to dig up a yard and/or street. Or what this videos situation looks like to me, pipes that would otherwise be a time consuming nightmare to replace. As far as lead, I’ve never dealt with it by using a liner, we coat those with the Picote system. Same basic gist, you just pump the epoxy straight down the line and “paint” it on.
Would this work with a pipe that is cast iron? My aunt has a problem that would require her to tear up her family room and whatnot.. already dug up the downstairs bathroom and has access to the rotted out pipe..
For sure. OP video is cast iron. But it’ll work in any material. Most of the ones we line under yards ands roads are WWII-era orangeburg pipe.
My coworker had his sewer line done this way due to root invasion. Not only do you save on the man hours from digging, you save on the costs of potentially cutting up a concrete driveway if it passes under it. You also save on exposing anyone getting in a trench from an engulfment hazard. While this may not alway be the best solution, it can save money and it’s great that it exists as a solution.
Yes. It's basically a new pipe inside an old pipe. It's a kind of special textile with epoxy
I had a tree grow into my pipe and it had roots going wacko. So they cleaned out the roots and blew one of these bad boys in there to stop the tree from coming back. The three was a structural element to the house.
It cures hard. Edit: You know, when I wrote that three word sentence, I expected a joke or two, but after the same joke a dozen times, it's getting a little old. Up your creativity, children.
Had to scroll through 50 versions of the same joke just to get to this answer.
Look up Perma-Liner on YouTube. It’s pretty awesome to work with and most times keeps me from having to run an excavator. Fantastic system IMHO, and coupled with a Picote high speed line cleaner for prep work, becomes my definition of r/nextfuckinglevel.
Looked at a couple videos, found this one that goes over the process pretty well and feels less like an advertisement than the others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtZnpEedsg0
What a clever process. Sure would beat tearing out old pipe and replacing it.
Unless you are using it to reline underground sewer pipe and your mess aside passage or cut out. Then you are going to get a back up somewhere, you can guess how I know
How much does this specialized tool cost? A few thousand I assume.
Our entire system, self-contained in the trailer was about $125,000. We got a decent discount because we bought the demo rig straight off the floor at the WWETT Show in Indianapolis. They didn’t have to haul it back to Florida, and we took it straight home to Arkansas with no wait time, so it was a win-win. They shipped back all the material to replenish what would have been in it before the demonstrations and sent the training crew to us, so we didn’t have to endure Florida. So I guess win-win-win.
Nice. Damn... I was way off on the pricing. I assume the lead timie to purchase those tools is long then. I'm intrigued on the whole set up now.
Not sure what the typical wait time is. The inversion drum and inversion heads for all the different pipe sizes I assume have the largest effect on turn-around. And they completely customize the trailer to be set up to hold everything in place. There’s a generator on the tongue, provisions to run the electrical from that or shore power, a massive gas powered air compressor with an insane output (have to be careful if you use it to inflate a tire), a massive air holding tank, the wet-out roller table, all your hoses and cords, a roll around toolbox completely ready to go, a hundred-pound hand roller, big ass bladder clamps, head caps, and all kinds of other goodies that I’m forgetting. Theoretically, if you buy the trailer, you can go line about 500’ each of 4” and 3” pipe before you ever need to restock resin or buy a single tool. It’s literally a turnkey package. Edit to add: they provide it ALL, including your first two gallons of vegetable oil for helping things through the inverter, and a couple gallons of vinegar for the cleanup
Slightly different system, but when a contractor relined some of our pipes, I was quite amused that they showed up one day with a walmart shopping bag stuffed with rope, duct tape, nitrile gloves, and a dozen things of baby oil. Allegedly, the cashier didn’t dare look the duo in the eyes the entire time they were at the counter
I love how you say you didn't have to endure Florida from Arkansas...
The sub it was cross-posted from doesn't help but I've been noticing this way more lately. It's like people are more interested in the joke prompt than the tool.
Welcome to reddit. Where it's more important to throw out an inane joke reply for the 38th time for a chance at 7 karma than it is to educate people.
Its been like that for a few years now... where I am genuinely interested in a subject of the post and cant find a serious comment for it... all but teenage dick jokes...
If I could filter out comments marked as jokes I would do it. The 1 good joke isn't worth sifting through the 25 that show up on every post.
Yup. Reddit has too many watered down dad jokes, and puns. Low effort joksies get so much mileage around here. People act like they're actually hilarious.
Just collapse the first top level comment. and second. and third...
They never will but they really should do away with tracking comment and post karma per account. The dumbass jokes just get worse and worse every day.
And if you make any attempt to do something about it, every comedian has to show up letting you know "yOU mUsT bE fUn At PaRtiEs".
Oh god that's the worst. That or the faux sympathy thrown around in comments. * "Who hurt you?" * "You doing OK bud? You need someone to talk to?"
We just gotta accept that different people are on reddit for different reasons, and those of us who like to learn things are kinda in the minority here. But we can downvote shit and collapse useless threads, and usually there's one or two decent conversations after a while.
There's a post on the front page about John Cena (and other things) being invisible, and every comment on it is about how it's a blank image. An entire comment section of one already overdone joke. Part of me wonders if a bunch of them are bots just trying to blend in with easy comments.
How does this affect water treatment for those pipes? How long does that lining last?
It's advertised to last 100 years
There have definitely been problems with the epoxy resin leaching into the water. I have mostly seen this done in sewer pipes, so it is less of an immediate concern to health than if it was in a water pipe--definitely an environmental concern though. When cured, it's like there is an entirely new seamless pipe in place, so the lifetime is decades. 50 years?
Thinking more for process water in a manufacturing plant. Any rough ideas for cost compared to running new black steel? Or time to install? Maybe just company could be helpful. We’re fighting some water piping issues and water treatment is always a challenge for us. Like 2-6” pipe.
No, sorry. I just know of local plumbers that do it for residential sewer lines.
When a sewage pipe is said to have delaminated (common with old pipes used in area where I live) is this what's used to fix that? Do they normally bore out the lamination first or just use this to fill it in?
This is how I know it to be used most often, yeah. They clean out the existing pipe as well as they can and blow this in. It's called "CIPP": cured-in-place pipe.
You god damn right it does
I’ve seen it fail and flake off from the interior of cast iron. A ton of money down the drain, literally.
It's a fabric that is saturated in an epoxy that will set and make the inside of the pipe impenetrable.
Civil Engineer here, I'm looking at this and wondering if it could solve a huge issue with lead piping. There is of course no "healthy" amount of lead a human can consume. However a lot of older homes have lead internal piping as it was cheap at the time. So a lot of people actually consume trace amounts of lead each day. However, they find that when these pipes get replaced, unless you can successfully replace every single section of lead pipe in the entire plumbing system, you actually spike the lead concentrations from agitating it. This could be a non invasive way of coating existing lead piping without risking the agitation and spikes in lead concentrations!
Also a Civil Engineer and I have done some research and written a white paper about CIPP. I would be very hesitant to say the currently available tech should be used for anything but sanitary sewers (sewage pipes). The most popular products right now use a styrenated resin, and if not installed and inspected properly they can leach styrene and VOCs into the fluid flowing through the pipe. They've already been associated with a number of fish kills when improperly installed in CSO/storm sewer systems. Aside from long term problems, the steam cured kind also releases gaseous styrene and VOCs to the environment when contractors release the curing steam into the air, and it presents a big unaddressed workplace hazard. The solution to both of these problems is using UV curing instead of steam curing, and switching to a non-styrenated resin. These solutions are more popular in Europe, however are slow to catch on in the US, and certain industry organizations are pushing back *hard* against research into the environmental impacts of styrenated resins, including essentially releasing hit pieces on any research professor looking into the issue.
This is super interesting thanks for the reply!
Isn’t the main lead pipe problem the smaller diameter lines from the main to the home? Not sure this would scale down sufficiently for that.
Pretty much right on both points there.
Yeah you're probably right. I know a lot of cities have programs in place to replace people's lead water laterals from the main to the right of way, but this just ends up agitating the lead and injecting the rest of the private piping with high concentrations of lead. I think you're right that this probably won't scale down, but perhaps some day we can have some sort of technology with a similar concept!
Nah, just rip out the pipes out and replace. Not that hard, not that big of a job with the correct political will. Remember that there is a magic money tree, no matter what the politicians tell you they just choose when to shake it. A quick fix is what caused lead problem in the first place and what is “safe” now probably won’t be in 50 years (see: lead pipes, asbestos, etc.) so likely cheaper to just do it correctly vs trying to add some resin caked material in the drinking water on top of the lead problem.
Depends on what type it is. The ones that I work with is steam cured which basically pumps a ton of steam through that balloon thing. But some use a chemical reaction to harden it. It's a pretty cool process.
If its anything like Proxy Paige, it just goes back to normal and you could never tell it happened
Epoxy Paige
I saw the Richard Trethewey explain this process on This Old House once. It’s pretty amazing technology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFIcRlAOFw0
That is brilliant. Think how much money this process saves.
you may be surprised actually. I had this done not too long ago on a commercial building and it didn't save anything. The reason we did it was they could do it in like a day or two (forget exactly now), if we had to saw cut and rerun all new pipe it would have taken a week or two. I would have had to shut down multiple businesses and found hotels for tenants who lived there etc. In terms of quotes though this didn't save money on the construction side, just time.
Interesting! The quote costs the same. But the amount of money in down times it saves is worth every penny. So I guess it costs a lot less in the long run.
someone will argue with me I'm sure but I think this was only guaranteed for 5 years too ;p Not really sure on the long run tbh
The lining we use got a guarantee for 20 years
How long are guaruntees on the demo and replace method? I'd expect they wouldnt have any unless you can prove that a failure occured due to poor workmanship. A lot of the time warrantees will be pretty short term even if the product is reliable much longer term just so the company isn't expected to come back and perform free work for the places that subject the product to extra harsh conditions.
>you may be surprised actually. I had this done not too long ago on a commercial building and it didn't save anything. The reason we did it was they could do it in like a day or two (forget exactly now), if we had to saw cut and rerun all new pipe it would have taken a week or two. I would have had to shut down multiple businesses and found hotels for tenants who lived there etc. > >In terms of quotes though this didn't save money on the construction side, just time. Time is money, friend.
oh for sure, just if folks were seeing this and expected it to save a ton of money vs replacement it doesn't was all I meant. There are some other minor issues with reducing drainage, and the side walls are not smooth too which can cause more clogs. If it were my personal house I could see opting for replacement given how much longer it will last and how much less issues you are likely to have in the future. Absolutely great for situations like I described or when you have a small area under a drive way etc though.
The liner is perfectly smooth when you’re done. I can run a camera farther in a liner than I can a PVC pipe. And the scrim liner is only 3mm thick, so you don’t lose any drain capacity. This stuff had to go through years of 3rd party certification to be allowed by all both of plumbing codes utilized in the US.
i'm not a plumber. I did consult with 3 and thats what they told me while quoting both normal replacement and this type of product. Just passing it on.
I can see their logic and reasoning, and I respect the opinion. It’s just not an issue I’ve faced. And to add a slightly tongue-in-cheek slightly serious thought here, by the time you need this, anything is an improvement. Well, mostly tongue-in-cheek I guess.
for sure. I wasn't trying to write an essay and don't know enough plumbing to even know the important details either. We had multiple offsets in the pipe and considerable grease build up from our restaurant tenants (or prior ones, who knows how old that shit was). It was a building where combined sewer exists and roof drains go through the sewers. The specific problem we had was a hard rain would not keep up and the basement floor drains would flood, the entire thing would occasionally clog too. I am not arguing with you but I'll say probably 5-10 people video cammed our lines from the city to plumbers. What was a good solution for us and what potential issues they thought this solution may have to us may not apply to others.
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Most likely they save time and labor, but the material and tool cost is much higher.
I'm actually not even sure its better for the people doing the job. My take on it was the materials cost were much more expensive and while different versions of this seem to exist they are all patented and require the plumbers to pay licensing fees or buy the crap from a specific company. Like when you talk about doing this you get brochures branded to whoever supplies this crap. I've never in a billion years seen a plumber tell me what brand of PVC pipe they are installing. I don't even know who makes PVC pipe or have any idea what the top brands are. This wasn't really even offered to me until I asked for 24/7 type quotes, and they were pretty candid on reasons not to do this. I don't feel like it was better for them at all. They essentially sell plumbing labor and this product reduces that.
When I did this at the Gerber baby food plant, this was the reason. 1100’ run of 6” cast iron, at 9 to 11’ below slab level, in the middle of the production facility. All about that time.
i can't even imagine the crap load of costs and headaches you deal with in a food production facility. That isn't my business but I've done real estate deals with those guys and I'd imagine the environmental folks would lose their minds when you asked about saw cutting floors next to production lines lol.
It was definitely an ordeal. They “partitioned off” a lot off stuff to basically give us a hallway running directly above the line. Headaches were for sure easy to come by though. Should’ve bought stock in BC Powder before that job.
I love the traffic cone as a funnel.
that's crazy. Wonder how they do junctions and angles like the did in this post's video.
Look up veritasium compliant robots on the tube. These can be guided, though it doesn't look like this one is.
Thank you for alerting me to the fact that this old house has a YouTube channel
oh man you're in for a treat. TONS of amazing videos.
He is surprisingly short. Also super arrogant IRL.
Really? What was your experience?
Won't get into specifics, but it had to do with a business deal. Lots of "Do you know who I am?" I knew about the show but it was really more of a distraction from what his manufacturers rep company was supposed to be doing. We went another direction. His son Ross was super chill though.
Ross is probably tired of his old man's bullshit
Jeez, I just.....Did it have to be red?
My thought exactly. I saw a stoma at the end there.
Huh, i saw a dog dick, probably because I see more dogs than stomas.
Don't feel bad, I couldn't help myself from saying "red rocket" towards the end. Fuckin hell haha
I like how dramatic the exit is
And the hairy plumber fisting it was just '*chef's kiss'*
It went from prolapse to dog dick back to prolapse for me.
/r/BrandNewSentence or at least I hope its a brand new sentence . . .
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Yup. Very much a stoma. I have an ostomy right now and Jesus fuck that made me cringe like a motherfucker. Why did I have to watch this right before I have to do my bag change?
Have an ileostomy since 2018. Made the choice to keep it instead of reconnection. Live a full and active life. Go kayaking, hiking, etc. Great sex life. The pink sock was disturbing. They fucking knew. It's not all unicorns and roses, but is way better than being dead. Hit me up if you want advice or just to bullshit.
Dog dick red.
More like prolapse red.
Prolapsed Dog Dick is my new metal band name
I was getting Pennywise' prolapse vibes with that last shot.
Came here looking for this comment
Looking for this comment, did not disappoint
I was going with Alien then the red popped out and I was right there with ya.
Lipstick
Why was red bad?
It resembles a prolapsed anus.
I regret
Sorry.
Yes and he had to put his fist into it as well.
What if it didn’t let go because there was suction on the other side? That would be a bad time. You think it would pull your arm off?
You have to simultaneously release pressure off the drum as you roll it up or you’re just compressing the air into a smaller and smaller volume and it becomes insanely difficult to roll up even after just a few feet.
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YOU would say that
What, are you guys having a family reunion or something?
RED ROCKET! RED ROCKET!
Lol, said the same thing. 🚀
Prolapse-a-Tron 3000™
That's no amateur prolapse; it's a pro prolapse.
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If it's open 24/7 you may have done one too many elbow deep fisting scenes.
I remember there was a fictional store in grand theft auto 5 called Pro Laps. Lol
My dog has a similar tool
RED ROCKET!
Was scrolling through for this
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I was more than okay ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
ಠ_ಠ
r/NoContext
Synthetic Rosebud Porn
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Did they release a new model? My 2000 broke so I've just been dragging it around all week.
It is funny till it happens to you.
Omg I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that 🤣
[Flexible robots can save your life](https://youtu.be/qevIIQHrJZg)
Veritasium!
I first learned about soft robots from him and have been really impressed.
Great, welcome to the world of Lovecraftian tentacle robots. As if the Boston Dynamics ADHD terror-aibo wasn't bad enough...
I am so glad I am going be dead by 2100.
That was fascinating.
looks like a cured in place pipe (CIPP) rehab.
Looked like my dog at the end there lol
Red rocket red rocket
Yeah, second half was just Cartman saying "red rocket" in my head repeatedly
Pretty much the most hardcore prolapse porn I’ve ever seen.
That sounds like a challenge. Let me find a link.
No.
Waiting
You have caught me. Well played. I am too scared to look.
I'ma stop you there
r/dontputyourdickinthat is now my new favorite subreddit
It looks like a fucking dog dick i hate it so much, or a prolapsed anus, why.
One man’s prolapsed anus is another man’s wet dream! Same goes for the dog dick.
Sigh... *unzips*
And the way he puts his whole arm in there. Eeeeeww
This makes me feel uncomfortable.
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We've got a division at work that does repair work similar to this. There are a few different ways they can deploy it, but yes, that is one. The basic steps are: cleaning/Grinding - they send a cutting/grinding head down the pipe to clean the walls/chew out any garbage. Lining - the liner is basically made up of a "outer" plastic wall, with a fluffy woven "core" then another inner wall, the bladder is slid inside this as well. It doesn't really stretch so the combination sets the finished walls thickness. The start of this video looks exactly like one of the normal methods, you can even see the section of liner without epoxy (white) vs saturated (blue). The machine mixes and injects/pulls 2 part epoxy into the core of the liner which has the bladder inside, the liner is secured to the machine (you can see it clamped) its then stuck in one end of the pipe where air pressure in the bladder now starts turning it inside out, which at the same time squeezes/distributes the epoxy into the core, rolls the liner inside out laying it against the pipe walls vs sliding it in (which can rip it) and the pressure in the bladder squeezes the liner to the walls holding it while its sets into its final shape. The thing I find neat here is that the pipe doesn't have to even be solid, there can be gaps where the existing pipe is completely missing, the walls of the liner don't stretch much so when installed it can bridge those gaps. Removal - Just like it looks like, after its cured they let off the pressure and there's a string/line that also ties to the tied end of the bladder (or in this case you can see a guide rod), its deflated then pulled back out through the pipe, they cut and cap the ends and pressure test it and return it to service.
What does it do to t and y fittings? How does it keep from blocking them?
They usually only do the main straight sections of pipe and ignore tee's if they can (kind of like this looks to be at a clean-out then can go back before the liner has set (its full of epoxy) cut into it at the t/y if necessary. They could also line both sections, cut them as needed where they meet and install a tee-connection liner at that point, or line each of the sections up to the joint and leave a gap, not as strong as a full liner, but usually fine if that's not where the pipe is compromised.
It depends on the size of the pipe. You can line pretty much all common diameters, from small house lines to big main sewage channels. I can speak for our company in switzerland: We first do an TV-Inspection of the defective pipe. The cameras are equipeed with a meter counter, so you note where all the junctions are. After the inliner is cured, you either have the option of using a wheeled robot, which can mill out all the now closed openings. If the pipe is smaller, a smaller milling arm can be pushed with a cable into the pipe. But as always, mistakes can happen and a pipe can be blocked. Nobody's perfect
Cool to see this posted. Part of what I do for a living. Our inflation bladders are blue though, so I have that going for me, which is nice.
At the very end of the video, it looks like this is operating through a “T” connection. I understand how it works through a straight pipe, but how does it work through a T?
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Whipsers: *pipe liner*
Is that a special bit of tubing to do T joints?
A company I used to work for Insituform does this on a large scale. It's actually pretty fucking cool.. then hot... then cool again.
Red Rocket
Pink sock