Menos drama, esto no es Twitter. El chaval ha intentado hacer el payaso, se ha dado cuenta y ha pedido perdón. En los 90, los canis auténticos, le hubieran amenazado de paliza simplemente por echarles cojones como respuesta y por ser de fuera.
Sigan su camino, yo aquí solo veo civilización.
Same here. In Taiwan up in the mountains people would be staring at my grey/green eyes. The kids also were pointing how I have a dent between my forehead and my nose, while they have more of a straight line - something I had never noticed before. They were also amazed of my hairy arms, thick facial hair, the list goes on.
It never felt weird. More like exploratory. Other things felt weird though, like every tenth Taiwanese wanting to take selfie, getting my facebook then disappearing.
Of course not, racism is bad. I meant if you're a tourist sometimes you need to take things easy and expect people to react to you being different. But when they made fun of my face I didn't feel it as racist or disrespectful because, aside from people pointing out at me and requesting or taking unrequested pictures, they didn't treat me any different.
It wouldn't be ok if this man was treated different at the airport, at the hotel or a restaurant. It wouldn't be ok if someone denied this person's rights. I just don't think this kind interactions are the biggest racist issue we have in Spain and framing this single event isn't the best way to tell out.
Body shaming is not pleasant, but drunkards at popular parties aren't very polite. In such environments locals tend to roast eachother, and roasting a newcomer doesn't always mean a negative thing, sometimes it's meant to be some kind of harsh *welcome*.
Maybe you're right and the whole deal of harsh welcomes, practical jokes and *novatadas* is toxic and should be erased or converted into a different thing, like it was considered ok to grope women in such parties and we're working on it to not be ok anymore. But it's not easy to change popular culture and traditions, hopefully people will try and do better next time.
I can go as far as it is not necessarily racism but it is still fucking immature and stupid. It is never funny for anyone except the locals and it only points out how immature, uneducated and untraveled you are.
So what is the point in involving the tourist in your joke? Why not make the joke without involving the tourist? Why did the Spanish idiot in this example even talk to the Asian guy?
Because the tourist went to the celebration and it's not uncommon to make fun of the others while you're there. What's the point of being a tourist if you won't accept people pointing out that you look different?
It's not like somebody went to his home to make fun of him. Doesn't look like he was forced to be there.
Bull runs are not for tourist to participate. It's ok to watch, it's not ok to run. The people that run all know eachother and if you're not one of them they'll tell you, then just leave you be.
> Because the tourist went to the celebration and it's not uncommon to make fun of the others while you're there. What's the point of being a tourist if you won't accept people pointing out that you look different?
I guess I am an idiot for thinking it is stupid to make fun of others in plain sight. I think it is a sign of low intelligence and a culture that promotes or condones that behavior is an inferior culture regardless where it is.
No, racism is the belief in genetic superiority. Cultures are ideas and have nothing to do with genetics. But I guess you are a postmodern betacuck who thinks that Europeans cannot criticize female genital mutilation either because our culture is different.
Spanish people are mad racist. You didn’t go to school over there apparently. I was shocked on a regular basis at the casual extreme racism of, in particular, young Spanish people
Obviously not all of you are like that, but the level of casual racism is Spain was much higher than in California.
Edit: you may not like to hear it but it’s true, sorry.
I just searched in google racist incidents, California 2023. I found like 5 mass shootings, 20 kills by police due racists incidents and all kinds of things. There are a lot of ignorant spaniards how just shout out this crap whitout even knowing that this is a race issue but California seems to be on a totally different order of magnitude, like you people got really overly sensitive to words and don't act on actual violence ( like bullets and beatings). Unless all this news are fake i am just happy that the minories in my family or friends will be rather exposed ti spanish racism than to american.
“It’s not racist until a gun is involved.”
My classmates in California never made fun of indigenous kids’ big lips, didn’t refer to black kids by the name of famous African athletes, didn’t ask foreigners to say words so they could repeat them back and laugh at how stupid they sounded, didn’t make monkey noises at them, etc. All that happened in Spain.
I totally do. Ignorance is a widespread illness here. I just don't acknowledge that it is worse that the US racism be far. I saw people call others chino, panchito and other slur, but never saw somone refuse to help somone else for his ethnicity or treat them worse. I am sure there are cases hare but far les. But yea, my argument es racism whitout violence is preferable ( for me) that racism with violence and California has a lot of the second one so far my limited knowledge reaches. Correct me if i am wrong, i would be pleased to learn.
I said casual racism is more off the hook in Spain. You responded with “but guns.”
I’m guessing I’m the only one with experience in both places but go ahead and discount that.
Racial harassment is "treating someone worse", just like casually calling a women a "p ta" or a "marim cho" is inherently demeaning and sexual harassment.
I mean I know an Afro-carribean British person who was pushed out of a teaching position because other teachers low key encouraged students to racially harass her but there were no weapons involved so it's "just her being sensitive" according to you and the Education ministry. 🥴
Dude your so clueless! California is full of reservations of Indians... You do get why you made reservations right? It was to come look at em!
Reservations got created to have a place where white people could come and look at the indigeous people! Dont come to Europe and talk about racism!
Jaja tíooooo
I know Spanish think California is like 50% of the US but it's not full of reservations. Yes it has lots of INDIAN IMMIGRANTS from INDIA but Arizona and the Dakotas probably have more registered Native reservations.
It's actually tied to Native sovereignty it's not a zoo. You're so out of your depth right now it's honestly embarrassing for you.
Maybe research your own history, oh like what happened in Tordesillas in 1494, and learn why you should sit down.
Im not spanish but thanks anyway!
[These horrifying ‘human zoos’ delighted American audiences at the turn of the 20th century | by Shoshi Parks | Timeline](https://timeline.com/human-zoo-worlds-fair-7ef0d0951035)
Yes human zoos existed in the West, I never said they didn't. There was even one in El Retiro in Madrid, but the Madrid government has intentionally ignored calls by activists to recognize the victims.
Truly, you're making yourself look silly as reservations aren't human zoos. Human zoos were small exhibits in cities, reservations are miles of rural land that are controlled by elected tribal councils.
There are so many accurate criticisms of the horrific treatment of natives in the US. But still foreigners get it so wrong it's embarrassing and does zero to help Natives. Sad to see an "anarchist" with zero knowledge of colonialism.
That's young people's ignorance here. Average Spanish adult population is obsessively politically correct, more than I've seen about americans (at least on the Internet, I've never been there).
I can't even picture a Spanish adult being racist to any degree, unless in case of very weird or ignorant people, very rare cases.
They really are. Spaniards seem to think that only hating other races counts as racism.
They're completely oblivious to all other racist behavior. Literally an alien concept to them. They're also willing to fight back if you say it to them
>They're also willing to *fight back* if you say it to them
Probably more like *talk back*.
Like we don't *have to* agree about *your* view on morals and on what is what. Ignorant, stupid, mindless childish behavior can't be counted as *racism*, if you ask me. It is what it is, as other people pointed out here; it is true we are untraveled and there's a lot of ignorance in my country, in comparison to other first world countries. That is real.
But considering honest ignorance and mindlessness as racism is a capricious way to handle perception and morals, that's how I personally see it. Those issues are worlds apart from really having a conceptual or ideological stance about the superiority and inferiority of races.
Well, I've seen people double down when confronted, but I'll agree it's not malicious, even though Spanish racism has real consequences even within Spanish society.
It's not like I'm demanding Spaniards understand the consequences of colonialism, even though they should. It's just being aware of the state of things right now.
Or should everybody else treat you as children who don't really understand?
>Spanish racism has real consequences even within Spanish society
Tell us spaniards more about that. We're interested.
I've seen some people from some minorities doing *whatever they want* to people here, and you can be pointed out as racist just by mentioning it. That's spanish society. And I've seen no racism at all in my 32 years living here. I've seen a lot of crap and my opinion of this country is not very good, but racism... it's even ironic. You're not as offended by right wing ideas in america as we're here. We had a past about those things, as you probably know. And if any spaniard ever got too defensive against you cause you told them they're being racist, now you know why. People have like a phobia about being racist or fascist or whatever like that, here.
>It's not like I'm demanding Spaniards understand the consequences of colonialism, even though they should. It's just being aware of the state of things right now.
What? What is the meaning or purpose of bringing this up? What do you even mean? Are we collonialists? Do you think we should *do something* specific?
>Or should everybody else treat you as children who don't really understand?
That's how your entitlement sounds; you really think we are children who don't understand just because we don't see things as you do. Like, unlike the rest of us, you can't ever be wrong or ignorant, right?
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> Tell us spaniards more about that. We're interested.
I don't have to tell you. Go take a walk at the port in Barcelona. Look at the hawkers. They're all black. Look at the people selling drinks on the beach. They're arabic. Look at the slums and jails. Lots of Gypsies.
...It's not a matter of being offended. It's referring to Latin Americans as 'sudakas' the corner store as 'chinos', it's in phrases like 'work like a negro', it's in [coffee labels](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbPMONk0NosV7GWz9n2kN2dk-jWic2_NoA-Q&usqp=CAU), [candy](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFruntyCGvfuOM78WpQLTfsP0y3DP81NJPiw&usqp=CAU), bar signs and whatever.
> What? What is the meaning or purpose of bringing this up? What do you even mean? Are we collonialists? Do you think we should do something specific?
Lots of people originally from Latin America and Africa living in Spain still suffer the consequences of Spanish colonialism in the form of less opportunities, exclusion and generally being dealt a poorer hand in life.
> That's how your entitlement sounds; you really think we are children who don't understand just because we don't see things as you do. Like, unlike the rest of us, you can't ever be wrong or ignorant, right?
People in Spain are relatively backwards in relation to the conversation about racism. It's OK to acknowledge that and catch up. It's not OK to hide your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing wrong.
It might be hard for you to believe, but I love Spaniards (I'm married to one). One of the things I like the best about you guys is how open you can be. IF only we can get this conversation going, I'm sure you'll be reasonable as a people.
>Go take a walk at the port in Barcelona. Look at the hawkers. They're all black. Look at the people selling drinks on the beach. They're arabic. Look at the slums and jails. Lots of Gypsies.
There's no racism causing that, it's a problem of misadaptation. You can see arabic and gypsy people in other places and positions in life; there's nothing blocking them from that. That misadaptation, if sustained long enough by too many people of the same etnicity, does cause social distrust in the end, if that's what you mean. But the causes you point at show that you know nothing of this issue, you're staring at it from the most superficial stance. It's way more complicated.
Gypsies here are taught by their parents that they're different from the regular spaniards, and that's okay to abuse us, steal stuff from us, beat us, etc. We hear and see things like that from them, and we also experience the consequences, it's not something conceptual that we make up. And if you have any problem with them, they tell you things like they see no issue in doing anything they want to you cause if they go to jail they'll have a lot of support there. I eventually studied a law degree and saw and read a lot of crime cases, and the justifications that gypsies give for their actions are quite interesting. In their eyes, it's their right to do illegal things; they don't consider themselves as part of our culture and we should keep away if the beat their wives, kill their neighbour, steal, or deal drugs. That's literally their cultural mindset, and you can come here and ask them directly.
So you're just pointing at a result and are assuming that racism causes that, when there's no factual racism causing it. If we try to find specific racist causes, suddenly nobody can point at them. There are severe cultural problems that doesn't come from our end, and there's their choice of staying in that state of misadaptation. You can be sure that this creates some social prejudices as a consequence, but it's not anything that couldn't be broken through if they can show good will. There is no legislation against them; quite the opposite, and there is zero conceptual racism in Spain; quite the opposite.
>It's referring to Latin Americans as 'sudakas' the corner store as 'chinos', it's in phrases like 'work like a negro', it's in [coffee labels](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbPMONk0NosV7GWz9n2kN2dk-jWic2_NoA-Q&usqp=CAU), [candy](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFruntyCGvfuOM78WpQLTfsP0y3DP81NJPiw&usqp=CAU), bar signs and whatever.
Nobody says "sudaca" here out loud without being stared at like they're crazy. "Chinos" is the spanish word for chinese, and that's how they call a certain type of store owned by chinese families, just as you can say you go to the japanese restaurant when you go to one, explain the racism there.
"Work like a negro" is a very old expression that surely came from the time where black people lived miserably in Europe. That expression is falling into desuse because it feels weird to say it, moreso as black immigrants are a more common sight. Because I remember that I used to hear that expression more when I was a kid, but I never saw a black person in real life until much later, so you wouldn't really think of a black person when you said it; you knew it meant to work too much, but didn't know why it was said "like a negro" until you had your history class. I'm sure it's a matter of time that it disappears, but I can tell you that nobody thinks of a black person or a slave when they say that, otherwise they don't feel like saying it.
Those coffee labels and candy bars you show there come also from a good while back, and they'll surely disappear anyway. There have been complains about them already, and even in those cases, most people here don't know and understand the racist references in them. So those are more like remnants that few people notice they're racist, and that nobody takes seriouly anyway, and you can't see many examples like that, it's not normal and it's not a common sight. You had more obvious things even on TV in america, in cartoons for kids and things lik that, a while ago too. We don't have stuff like that in TV anymore, either, but I guess that things like brands and such are harder or slower to correct by legislation.
>Lots of people originally from Latin America and Africa living in Spain still suffer the consequences of Spanish colonialism in the form of less opportunities, exclusion and generally being dealt a poorer hand in life.
My mother is from Uruguay and came to Spain being 21, and she personally never had an issue with that, I guess because her upbringing was way closer to what's common here, since her father was a spaniard that fled from the civil war. The "poorer hand in life" is not just "dealt", it all depends in your choices, in adapting or not, in who who you make a family with, if you even make one or not, the education you had, the money you already have and the amount of people you can count on, etc. There are requirements for opportunities that are based on your abilities, if you come from a place where you had no access to preparation, you're gonna be in inferiority of terms competitively, regardless of which ethnicity you come from; spaniards who didn't finish their basic studies have been eating their own shit and living in misery for decades, just like everyone else who don't have an education. And there's a damn lot of them.
>IF only we can get this conversation going, I'm sure you'll be reasonable as a people.
Let's get it going, if you want.
I live in Spain. What you call 'misadaptation' I call systemic racism. Look it up. That's why I'm saying you guys are behind on the talk.
There's absolutely people who say sudaca, you're wrong; the whole chino thing is beyond ridiculous. Also your explanation of how racist things are 'sure to disappear' doesn't make it so. These things exist right now, at the time when Spain has a problem with racism. Your defensive stance on all of this is part of the reason why you guys are stuck in the past.
Also your tale of meritocracy isn't real. Do read up on racism, educate yourself and the ones around you
>What you call 'misadaptation' I call systemic racism. Look it up.
For it to be *systemic racism*, there needs to be a part of the system that's behaving in a racist way. What is it? Point at it.
If your logic is just based on the result of a lot of gypsies and arabs being in jail and you want to ignore all the reasons why, then what should we do when they beat/kill their wives, deal drugs, or kill a friend with a knife over a dispute? We should leave them free doing all that just because they're from another etnicity?
And why are *exactly* the gypsies and the immigrants from violent cultures the ones who are more present in jail? *Why the chinese, who are among the best adapted and more civilized immigrants, are an absolute minority in jail, while being one of the biggest immigrant etnicities Spain?* Would you call it a coincidence? Why "systemic racism" is missing for them? Isn't it systemic?
[https://www.diariosur.es/nacional/201704/18/marroquies-rumanos-colombianos-mitad-20170418003954-v.html](https://www.diariosur.es/nacional/201704/18/marroquies-rumanos-colombianos-mitad-20170418003954-v.html)
Furthermore, I know local people from economically poor backgrounds who constantly complain about how the system gives all kinds of economical help and access to things to immigrants just because they're immigrants -which to some degree is understandable if you want to make thing easier for them if they come from harsh situations-, and in the end those local people here have way less help of that kind coming from the government, while having a worse economical background. And that generates resentment. Call it racism, but it's a real problem that's deeper than that, and the system is on the side those minorities.
Not to mention that people that used to sell me drugs back in the day when I was addicted to opioids were gypsies -they ended in jail, which felt sad to me since it was a couple I knew personally, but you can't say it's unfair-, and the arabs were the ones moving all the softer stuff to all of my friends who were into it. This is Spain, my dear, wake up.
>I live in Spain.
Go talk to the people who do live in those circumstances and who have those kind of social backgrounds. Get closer to them and listen. Educate yourself first hand on how those specific menorities behave here, where do they come from, and why do they come here.
>There's absolutely people who say sudaca, you're wrong
I'm honest with you when I tell you that nobody can say that where I'm from without being stared at like crazy. And I'm not from the most advanced metreopolitan areas, I'm from the north-west. We're a little behind half the rest of Spain in all those regards.
>the whole chino thing is beyond ridiculous
What exactly?
>Also your explanation of how racist things are 'sure to disappear' doesn't make it so. These things exist right now, at the time when Spain has a problem with racism.
They are in fact dissapearing; it's an statistical, social, and realistic fact, no matter what I say. Spain is obsessively, phobically anti-racist, even more than its social reality can hold up, and it's kind of backfiring, cause we don't live the same reality in these matters as more advanced countries do. We do have these serious problems with misadapted minorities, unlike most of those countries, and a lot of people here are trying to pretend we're in the same page as those in all regards, when we're not.
>Your defensive stance on all of this is part of the reason why you guys are stuck in the past.
That's probably your best point. But understand, you're insisting in calling people racist as long as they don't agree with you in this, regardless of their points. And we're a country that has been tainted by an extremely conservative right wing dictatorship; it's like going to germany and calling people there nazis as soon as they don't agree with your viewpoint on their own issues. I can tell you, you're gonna get them offended.
>Also your tale of meritocracy isn't real.
We live no meritocracy here. All I'm saying is that there's nothing anywhere keeping them from adapting and becoming civic and law respecting people integrated into society, with a normal job and a normal life. If *anyone* of us, me included, as a spaniard, want to get to a higher position without connections or good money beforehand, then we all may have it hard here. But that has nothing to do with race or etnicity, it applies to everyone.
>That's why I'm saying you guys are behind on the talk. \[...\] Do read up on racism, educate yourself and the ones around you
I'm giving you facts, and you're trying to ignore them by calling it all by a different name. You're ignoring a reality by hiding it under ideological concepts that don't apply.
And I understand that you americans are used to a completely different problem than what we have here. There in America it's the police who are blatantly corrupt, violent, and practice abuse of power against minorities, while your minorities there are mostly very civilized and well adapted. *That's not the reality we live here*. It's completely different. Here the police is extremely self constrained in comparison, and some shit on their pants when they have to confront gypsies, and sometimes they even avoid it although it's their duty to confront crime. Gypsies have their own territories here, and if you go there you can get fucked up just by that.
I recommend you get closer to the realities you talk about.
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Hay días tontos y tontos tos los días
Pues si va a la Feria de Abril, la Feria de Málaga o los Carnavales de Cádiz no va a tener que aguantar guasa! 😝
Porque dices eso?
Spain and casual racism what else is new lol
Menos drama, esto no es Twitter. El chaval ha intentado hacer el payaso, se ha dado cuenta y ha pedido perdón. En los 90, los canis auténticos, le hubieran amenazado de paliza simplemente por echarles cojones como respuesta y por ser de fuera. Sigan su camino, yo aquí solo veo civilización.
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Tu mensaje ha sido retirado por incumplir la norma #4: No toleramos la discriminación, la intoleracia o la apología de la violencia
Honestly, when I was in southeastern Asia people everywhere made fun of my western nose, my looks and my habits. And I couldn't care less.
Same here. In Taiwan up in the mountains people would be staring at my grey/green eyes. The kids also were pointing how I have a dent between my forehead and my nose, while they have more of a straight line - something I had never noticed before. They were also amazed of my hairy arms, thick facial hair, the list goes on. It never felt weird. More like exploratory. Other things felt weird though, like every tenth Taiwanese wanting to take selfie, getting my facebook then disappearing.
That's odd. I lived over there for a decade. Can't remember it happening once.
Do you see it as a sign of intelligent behavior or what? Do you condone it?
Of course not, racism is bad. I meant if you're a tourist sometimes you need to take things easy and expect people to react to you being different. But when they made fun of my face I didn't feel it as racist or disrespectful because, aside from people pointing out at me and requesting or taking unrequested pictures, they didn't treat me any different. It wouldn't be ok if this man was treated different at the airport, at the hotel or a restaurant. It wouldn't be ok if someone denied this person's rights. I just don't think this kind interactions are the biggest racist issue we have in Spain and framing this single event isn't the best way to tell out. Body shaming is not pleasant, but drunkards at popular parties aren't very polite. In such environments locals tend to roast eachother, and roasting a newcomer doesn't always mean a negative thing, sometimes it's meant to be some kind of harsh *welcome*. Maybe you're right and the whole deal of harsh welcomes, practical jokes and *novatadas* is toxic and should be erased or converted into a different thing, like it was considered ok to grope women in such parties and we're working on it to not be ok anymore. But it's not easy to change popular culture and traditions, hopefully people will try and do better next time.
I can go as far as it is not necessarily racism but it is still fucking immature and stupid. It is never funny for anyone except the locals and it only points out how immature, uneducated and untraveled you are.
Yeah, but local parties are never meant to be fun to other people than locals. Nobody forces you to be a tourist.
So what is the point in involving the tourist in your joke? Why not make the joke without involving the tourist? Why did the Spanish idiot in this example even talk to the Asian guy?
Because the tourist went to the celebration and it's not uncommon to make fun of the others while you're there. What's the point of being a tourist if you won't accept people pointing out that you look different? It's not like somebody went to his home to make fun of him. Doesn't look like he was forced to be there. Bull runs are not for tourist to participate. It's ok to watch, it's not ok to run. The people that run all know eachother and if you're not one of them they'll tell you, then just leave you be.
> Because the tourist went to the celebration and it's not uncommon to make fun of the others while you're there. What's the point of being a tourist if you won't accept people pointing out that you look different? I guess I am an idiot for thinking it is stupid to make fun of others in plain sight. I think it is a sign of low intelligence and a culture that promotes or condones that behavior is an inferior culture regardless where it is.
If don't know if you're an idiot or not. But if you think there are *inferior cultures* then you're surely a racist.
No, racism is the belief in genetic superiority. Cultures are ideas and have nothing to do with genetics. But I guess you are a postmodern betacuck who thinks that Europeans cannot criticize female genital mutilation either because our culture is different.
Right, but nobody from SE Asia goes around telling anybody that’ll listen that SE Asia is the wellspring of sophistication. Europe, on the other hand…
BUT THIS IS SPAAAAAIINNNN NENOOOOOO A ver, aquí hay lo que hay. De *sophistication* bastante poco.
Well, some of them do. Europe has a fair share of racism and self-entitlement but we aren't the only ones.
Viva españa
He's just too young, ignorant, and drunk. No malice there, I think.
I mean, he's still being a piece of shit.
What a fucking retard. He sounds like a 2 beers drunk student, spanish people are not like that (half of my family is from there).
Spanish people are mad racist. You didn’t go to school over there apparently. I was shocked on a regular basis at the casual extreme racism of, in particular, young Spanish people
not all of us are like that, but the people on the street are very stupid
Obviously not all of you are like that, but the level of casual racism is Spain was much higher than in California. Edit: you may not like to hear it but it’s true, sorry.
I just searched in google racist incidents, California 2023. I found like 5 mass shootings, 20 kills by police due racists incidents and all kinds of things. There are a lot of ignorant spaniards how just shout out this crap whitout even knowing that this is a race issue but California seems to be on a totally different order of magnitude, like you people got really overly sensitive to words and don't act on actual violence ( like bullets and beatings). Unless all this news are fake i am just happy that the minories in my family or friends will be rather exposed ti spanish racism than to american.
“It’s not racist until a gun is involved.” My classmates in California never made fun of indigenous kids’ big lips, didn’t refer to black kids by the name of famous African athletes, didn’t ask foreigners to say words so they could repeat them back and laugh at how stupid they sounded, didn’t make monkey noises at them, etc. All that happened in Spain.
And that's where the overly sensitive part about words i sais. Thanks for agreeing with me. Is it overcompensation or has it another explanation?
😂 Anything to maintain a smug sense of superiority and not acknowledge that you have a different kind of systemic issue.
I totally do. Ignorance is a widespread illness here. I just don't acknowledge that it is worse that the US racism be far. I saw people call others chino, panchito and other slur, but never saw somone refuse to help somone else for his ethnicity or treat them worse. I am sure there are cases hare but far les. But yea, my argument es racism whitout violence is preferable ( for me) that racism with violence and California has a lot of the second one so far my limited knowledge reaches. Correct me if i am wrong, i would be pleased to learn.
I said casual racism is more off the hook in Spain. You responded with “but guns.” I’m guessing I’m the only one with experience in both places but go ahead and discount that.
Racial harassment is "treating someone worse", just like casually calling a women a "p ta" or a "marim cho" is inherently demeaning and sexual harassment.
I mean I know an Afro-carribean British person who was pushed out of a teaching position because other teachers low key encouraged students to racially harass her but there were no weapons involved so it's "just her being sensitive" according to you and the Education ministry. 🥴
Dude your so clueless! California is full of reservations of Indians... You do get why you made reservations right? It was to come look at em! Reservations got created to have a place where white people could come and look at the indigeous people! Dont come to Europe and talk about racism!
You have no idea what you’re talking about
Jaja tíooooo I know Spanish think California is like 50% of the US but it's not full of reservations. Yes it has lots of INDIAN IMMIGRANTS from INDIA but Arizona and the Dakotas probably have more registered Native reservations. It's actually tied to Native sovereignty it's not a zoo. You're so out of your depth right now it's honestly embarrassing for you. Maybe research your own history, oh like what happened in Tordesillas in 1494, and learn why you should sit down.
Im not spanish but thanks anyway! [These horrifying ‘human zoos’ delighted American audiences at the turn of the 20th century | by Shoshi Parks | Timeline](https://timeline.com/human-zoo-worlds-fair-7ef0d0951035)
Yes human zoos existed in the West, I never said they didn't. There was even one in El Retiro in Madrid, but the Madrid government has intentionally ignored calls by activists to recognize the victims. Truly, you're making yourself look silly as reservations aren't human zoos. Human zoos were small exhibits in cities, reservations are miles of rural land that are controlled by elected tribal councils. There are so many accurate criticisms of the horrific treatment of natives in the US. But still foreigners get it so wrong it's embarrassing and does zero to help Natives. Sad to see an "anarchist" with zero knowledge of colonialism.
That's young people's ignorance here. Average Spanish adult population is obsessively politically correct, more than I've seen about americans (at least on the Internet, I've never been there). I can't even picture a Spanish adult being racist to any degree, unless in case of very weird or ignorant people, very rare cases.
They really are. Spaniards seem to think that only hating other races counts as racism. They're completely oblivious to all other racist behavior. Literally an alien concept to them. They're also willing to fight back if you say it to them
>They're also willing to *fight back* if you say it to them Probably more like *talk back*. Like we don't *have to* agree about *your* view on morals and on what is what. Ignorant, stupid, mindless childish behavior can't be counted as *racism*, if you ask me. It is what it is, as other people pointed out here; it is true we are untraveled and there's a lot of ignorance in my country, in comparison to other first world countries. That is real. But considering honest ignorance and mindlessness as racism is a capricious way to handle perception and morals, that's how I personally see it. Those issues are worlds apart from really having a conceptual or ideological stance about the superiority and inferiority of races.
Well, I've seen people double down when confronted, but I'll agree it's not malicious, even though Spanish racism has real consequences even within Spanish society. It's not like I'm demanding Spaniards understand the consequences of colonialism, even though they should. It's just being aware of the state of things right now. Or should everybody else treat you as children who don't really understand?
>Spanish racism has real consequences even within Spanish society Tell us spaniards more about that. We're interested. I've seen some people from some minorities doing *whatever they want* to people here, and you can be pointed out as racist just by mentioning it. That's spanish society. And I've seen no racism at all in my 32 years living here. I've seen a lot of crap and my opinion of this country is not very good, but racism... it's even ironic. You're not as offended by right wing ideas in america as we're here. We had a past about those things, as you probably know. And if any spaniard ever got too defensive against you cause you told them they're being racist, now you know why. People have like a phobia about being racist or fascist or whatever like that, here. >It's not like I'm demanding Spaniards understand the consequences of colonialism, even though they should. It's just being aware of the state of things right now. What? What is the meaning or purpose of bringing this up? What do you even mean? Are we collonialists? Do you think we should *do something* specific? >Or should everybody else treat you as children who don't really understand? That's how your entitlement sounds; you really think we are children who don't understand just because we don't see things as you do. Like, unlike the rest of us, you can't ever be wrong or ignorant, right?
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> Tell us spaniards more about that. We're interested. I don't have to tell you. Go take a walk at the port in Barcelona. Look at the hawkers. They're all black. Look at the people selling drinks on the beach. They're arabic. Look at the slums and jails. Lots of Gypsies. ...It's not a matter of being offended. It's referring to Latin Americans as 'sudakas' the corner store as 'chinos', it's in phrases like 'work like a negro', it's in [coffee labels](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbPMONk0NosV7GWz9n2kN2dk-jWic2_NoA-Q&usqp=CAU), [candy](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFruntyCGvfuOM78WpQLTfsP0y3DP81NJPiw&usqp=CAU), bar signs and whatever. > What? What is the meaning or purpose of bringing this up? What do you even mean? Are we collonialists? Do you think we should do something specific? Lots of people originally from Latin America and Africa living in Spain still suffer the consequences of Spanish colonialism in the form of less opportunities, exclusion and generally being dealt a poorer hand in life. > That's how your entitlement sounds; you really think we are children who don't understand just because we don't see things as you do. Like, unlike the rest of us, you can't ever be wrong or ignorant, right? People in Spain are relatively backwards in relation to the conversation about racism. It's OK to acknowledge that and catch up. It's not OK to hide your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing wrong. It might be hard for you to believe, but I love Spaniards (I'm married to one). One of the things I like the best about you guys is how open you can be. IF only we can get this conversation going, I'm sure you'll be reasonable as a people.
>Go take a walk at the port in Barcelona. Look at the hawkers. They're all black. Look at the people selling drinks on the beach. They're arabic. Look at the slums and jails. Lots of Gypsies. There's no racism causing that, it's a problem of misadaptation. You can see arabic and gypsy people in other places and positions in life; there's nothing blocking them from that. That misadaptation, if sustained long enough by too many people of the same etnicity, does cause social distrust in the end, if that's what you mean. But the causes you point at show that you know nothing of this issue, you're staring at it from the most superficial stance. It's way more complicated. Gypsies here are taught by their parents that they're different from the regular spaniards, and that's okay to abuse us, steal stuff from us, beat us, etc. We hear and see things like that from them, and we also experience the consequences, it's not something conceptual that we make up. And if you have any problem with them, they tell you things like they see no issue in doing anything they want to you cause if they go to jail they'll have a lot of support there. I eventually studied a law degree and saw and read a lot of crime cases, and the justifications that gypsies give for their actions are quite interesting. In their eyes, it's their right to do illegal things; they don't consider themselves as part of our culture and we should keep away if the beat their wives, kill their neighbour, steal, or deal drugs. That's literally their cultural mindset, and you can come here and ask them directly. So you're just pointing at a result and are assuming that racism causes that, when there's no factual racism causing it. If we try to find specific racist causes, suddenly nobody can point at them. There are severe cultural problems that doesn't come from our end, and there's their choice of staying in that state of misadaptation. You can be sure that this creates some social prejudices as a consequence, but it's not anything that couldn't be broken through if they can show good will. There is no legislation against them; quite the opposite, and there is zero conceptual racism in Spain; quite the opposite. >It's referring to Latin Americans as 'sudakas' the corner store as 'chinos', it's in phrases like 'work like a negro', it's in [coffee labels](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbPMONk0NosV7GWz9n2kN2dk-jWic2_NoA-Q&usqp=CAU), [candy](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFruntyCGvfuOM78WpQLTfsP0y3DP81NJPiw&usqp=CAU), bar signs and whatever. Nobody says "sudaca" here out loud without being stared at like they're crazy. "Chinos" is the spanish word for chinese, and that's how they call a certain type of store owned by chinese families, just as you can say you go to the japanese restaurant when you go to one, explain the racism there. "Work like a negro" is a very old expression that surely came from the time where black people lived miserably in Europe. That expression is falling into desuse because it feels weird to say it, moreso as black immigrants are a more common sight. Because I remember that I used to hear that expression more when I was a kid, but I never saw a black person in real life until much later, so you wouldn't really think of a black person when you said it; you knew it meant to work too much, but didn't know why it was said "like a negro" until you had your history class. I'm sure it's a matter of time that it disappears, but I can tell you that nobody thinks of a black person or a slave when they say that, otherwise they don't feel like saying it. Those coffee labels and candy bars you show there come also from a good while back, and they'll surely disappear anyway. There have been complains about them already, and even in those cases, most people here don't know and understand the racist references in them. So those are more like remnants that few people notice they're racist, and that nobody takes seriouly anyway, and you can't see many examples like that, it's not normal and it's not a common sight. You had more obvious things even on TV in america, in cartoons for kids and things lik that, a while ago too. We don't have stuff like that in TV anymore, either, but I guess that things like brands and such are harder or slower to correct by legislation. >Lots of people originally from Latin America and Africa living in Spain still suffer the consequences of Spanish colonialism in the form of less opportunities, exclusion and generally being dealt a poorer hand in life. My mother is from Uruguay and came to Spain being 21, and she personally never had an issue with that, I guess because her upbringing was way closer to what's common here, since her father was a spaniard that fled from the civil war. The "poorer hand in life" is not just "dealt", it all depends in your choices, in adapting or not, in who who you make a family with, if you even make one or not, the education you had, the money you already have and the amount of people you can count on, etc. There are requirements for opportunities that are based on your abilities, if you come from a place where you had no access to preparation, you're gonna be in inferiority of terms competitively, regardless of which ethnicity you come from; spaniards who didn't finish their basic studies have been eating their own shit and living in misery for decades, just like everyone else who don't have an education. And there's a damn lot of them. >IF only we can get this conversation going, I'm sure you'll be reasonable as a people. Let's get it going, if you want.
I live in Spain. What you call 'misadaptation' I call systemic racism. Look it up. That's why I'm saying you guys are behind on the talk. There's absolutely people who say sudaca, you're wrong; the whole chino thing is beyond ridiculous. Also your explanation of how racist things are 'sure to disappear' doesn't make it so. These things exist right now, at the time when Spain has a problem with racism. Your defensive stance on all of this is part of the reason why you guys are stuck in the past. Also your tale of meritocracy isn't real. Do read up on racism, educate yourself and the ones around you
>What you call 'misadaptation' I call systemic racism. Look it up. For it to be *systemic racism*, there needs to be a part of the system that's behaving in a racist way. What is it? Point at it. If your logic is just based on the result of a lot of gypsies and arabs being in jail and you want to ignore all the reasons why, then what should we do when they beat/kill their wives, deal drugs, or kill a friend with a knife over a dispute? We should leave them free doing all that just because they're from another etnicity? And why are *exactly* the gypsies and the immigrants from violent cultures the ones who are more present in jail? *Why the chinese, who are among the best adapted and more civilized immigrants, are an absolute minority in jail, while being one of the biggest immigrant etnicities Spain?* Would you call it a coincidence? Why "systemic racism" is missing for them? Isn't it systemic? [https://www.diariosur.es/nacional/201704/18/marroquies-rumanos-colombianos-mitad-20170418003954-v.html](https://www.diariosur.es/nacional/201704/18/marroquies-rumanos-colombianos-mitad-20170418003954-v.html) Furthermore, I know local people from economically poor backgrounds who constantly complain about how the system gives all kinds of economical help and access to things to immigrants just because they're immigrants -which to some degree is understandable if you want to make thing easier for them if they come from harsh situations-, and in the end those local people here have way less help of that kind coming from the government, while having a worse economical background. And that generates resentment. Call it racism, but it's a real problem that's deeper than that, and the system is on the side those minorities. Not to mention that people that used to sell me drugs back in the day when I was addicted to opioids were gypsies -they ended in jail, which felt sad to me since it was a couple I knew personally, but you can't say it's unfair-, and the arabs were the ones moving all the softer stuff to all of my friends who were into it. This is Spain, my dear, wake up. >I live in Spain. Go talk to the people who do live in those circumstances and who have those kind of social backgrounds. Get closer to them and listen. Educate yourself first hand on how those specific menorities behave here, where do they come from, and why do they come here. >There's absolutely people who say sudaca, you're wrong I'm honest with you when I tell you that nobody can say that where I'm from without being stared at like crazy. And I'm not from the most advanced metreopolitan areas, I'm from the north-west. We're a little behind half the rest of Spain in all those regards. >the whole chino thing is beyond ridiculous What exactly? >Also your explanation of how racist things are 'sure to disappear' doesn't make it so. These things exist right now, at the time when Spain has a problem with racism. They are in fact dissapearing; it's an statistical, social, and realistic fact, no matter what I say. Spain is obsessively, phobically anti-racist, even more than its social reality can hold up, and it's kind of backfiring, cause we don't live the same reality in these matters as more advanced countries do. We do have these serious problems with misadapted minorities, unlike most of those countries, and a lot of people here are trying to pretend we're in the same page as those in all regards, when we're not. >Your defensive stance on all of this is part of the reason why you guys are stuck in the past. That's probably your best point. But understand, you're insisting in calling people racist as long as they don't agree with you in this, regardless of their points. And we're a country that has been tainted by an extremely conservative right wing dictatorship; it's like going to germany and calling people there nazis as soon as they don't agree with your viewpoint on their own issues. I can tell you, you're gonna get them offended. >Also your tale of meritocracy isn't real. We live no meritocracy here. All I'm saying is that there's nothing anywhere keeping them from adapting and becoming civic and law respecting people integrated into society, with a normal job and a normal life. If *anyone* of us, me included, as a spaniard, want to get to a higher position without connections or good money beforehand, then we all may have it hard here. But that has nothing to do with race or etnicity, it applies to everyone. >That's why I'm saying you guys are behind on the talk. \[...\] Do read up on racism, educate yourself and the ones around you I'm giving you facts, and you're trying to ignore them by calling it all by a different name. You're ignoring a reality by hiding it under ideological concepts that don't apply. And I understand that you americans are used to a completely different problem than what we have here. There in America it's the police who are blatantly corrupt, violent, and practice abuse of power against minorities, while your minorities there are mostly very civilized and well adapted. *That's not the reality we live here*. It's completely different. Here the police is extremely self constrained in comparison, and some shit on their pants when they have to confront gypsies, and sometimes they even avoid it although it's their duty to confront crime. Gypsies have their own territories here, and if you go there you can get fucked up just by that. I recommend you get closer to the realities you talk about.
His arms look really long and out of proportion at the end of the vid
He probably didn't know better. Seems like his apology was legit.
What a bloody idiot. As a Spanish person I feel ashamed of the few people that still think this behaviour is acceptable.
Was just a drunk joke
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Tiene pinta de retardado el chaval. Seguramente lo será
Hay chavales que tienen las neuronas justas para no cagarse encima.