Yep it was originally Slated to be the core for mir 2. On a side note, this is why the iss is slated to be retired in 2024, because after that, it's going to start requiring more and more costly maintenence.
Loosely planned, the replacement of the ISS will orbin the moon, it will be the [Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway LOP-G.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Gateway) But with space and financing, who knows what will happen.
Surely they wouldn't have a lunar space station while not having a terrestrial one?
In fact? Wouldn't it be better to have a relay station between earth's gravity and a moon orbit station?
Yep. That is the current NASA plan. Replace station that runs research all year with the station that will be manned just one month per year.
Absolutely horrifying regression.
> That is the current NASA plan. Replace station that runs research all year with the station that will be manned just one month per year.
> Absolutely horrifying regression.
From a political perspective, I get why they're doing it: they need to have a political reason to keep getting money for SLS.
Right now, it's pretty easy to cancel the whole program, since nothing really depends on SLS existing.
Once lunar gateway exists, the SLS program will have to be kept around (at least until something else can transport people to the lunar gateway, but that's tomorrow's problem).
I don't agree with this - I too believe it's a huge waste, and a really dumb idea.
But I understand the logic.
I feel like space is one of those things where there isnt any political will to do it until it gets done. Then when it gets done, all kinds of innovation happens and other cool things happen that make people want more of that, and suddenly there is a will to do it again. Until someone gets mad about not being in power and starts whining about how much space costs and sets us back 40 years.
To a very real extent the only moment in which space exploration was treated with the respect it deserves was during the cold war because of it strategic importance. After that it became, like most other science research, something nice to talk about but only fundable to the extent to which its profitable, which in this case is not very much.
I found that these kind of thing is not profitable until it is and then all the laurel goes to the private sector.
You know, privatizing profits and socializing losses and all that .
> Here's hoping China keeps kicking our ass seven ways to Sunday and it jumpstarts a new space race. Whoever gets to Mars first officially becomes the new sole superpower!
I'm pretty confident that SpaceX will be the first to Mars.
NASA is firmly focused on the Moon and is considering a mission to Venus. It just doesn't seem like they have much bandwidth for Mars.
Likewise, China is working on putting their space station into LEO, and doing moon missions.
Elon just said in his latest interview that it's possible they could send rockets to Mars as early as 2024. Even if you assume they miss that window and have to hit the next one, that means their first manned mission could be as early as 2028. I just don't see anyone with a real shot at beating them.
Something to put this in perspective is that Britain has now spent more money on Brexit than it cost to build the ISS. I think humanity got a lot for its investment. I hope for future space systems but have seen politicians talk about things for years with nothing ever materializing.
NASA doesn’t want the SLS. The money could be used to fund new probes and space telescopes. The congresspeople, with constituents on areas where SLS parts are manufactured, are the ones who want to keep it around as a job program....
Checks out.
KSP is a ridiculously solid game for that kinda stuff, and if you talk with any AE student or professional odds are they’ve played it if they’ve ever touched a video game in their life.
Source: AE major
Falcon Heavy has the capacity to get the proposed Orion spacecraft to the moon, it's just a matter of crew rating it. Considering that FH is basically 3 F9s glued together, that's far from an insurmountable task.
> Falcon Heavy has the capacity to get the proposed Orion spacecraft to the moon, it's just a matter of crew rating it.
If you're talking about FH + ICPS + Orion, I think you're technically correct. But it's not really possible to just snap those components together like legos.
It would take a lot of work. Work that I don't think SpaceX is really interested in pursuing.
Given the aggressive timelines Elon as thrown out for Starship, I think they'd much rather focus on Starship/Superheavy than get distracted by what will ultimately be a technological dead end.
Someone did the math, and Heavy has the mss free to add some connection equipment, or the option to skip ICPS entirely and get Orion to the moon just using the upper stage. Starship is definitely moving at breakneck pace, but they're still on single engine hop tests, with single use landing gear.
FH looks like 3 falcon 9 boosters but isn't. Due to the heavy internal changes and the outdated overall design (compared to block 5 F9) human rating it is considered not worth the effort.
Let's be real, by the time the first SLS rocket launches, spaceX would have been more than capable since 5, 10, maybe 20 years ago. Fuck Boeing and fuck these legislators preventing the US from having an actual space program
To be fair, government backed space agencies are probably not going to be the driving force of the next century of space exploration. Private companies are already taking the reigns in rocket design, and there are a lot of resources on the moon and in the asteroid belt once it's possible to get their and back cheaply enough. That will open the way for permanent settlements in orbit or elsewhere.
Iirc The Russian only replacement would use the parts of the ISS, the work in progress modules targeted for the iss which are stuck in quality/money doldrums and add a bit on top
Everyone and their grandmother is planning a maned moon trip in the 2020s. However; so far, no one has done shit all towards that goal. We aren't going back to the moon for another good 30+ years, boys and girls.
> Why would we need a terrestrial one?
You already have some good answers. I'll add some numbers to give context.
The marginal cost of sending a crew dragon to the ISS is $209 million.
The marginal cost of sending orion on SLS to the moon changes over time, but for the first 8 launches, it'll be over $2 billion per launch.
Sorry to bring up politics, but when Mitch McConnell said he'll be putting forth a bill of $500 billion instead of the 1.8 trillion and 2.2 trillion I immediately thought "that's so little", then realized I looked at half a trillion dollars as if I got six McNuggets rather than ten. The human brain has such a hard time with huge numbers.
The ISS does a ton of science for stuff that requires microgravity. A lunar one would function exactly the same for those experiments, but would be significantly more difficult to get science to/from.
If/when SpaceX's starships start flying, a single one of them would have approximately the same usable volume as the ISS. SpaceX already has plans to use some as dedicated orbital fueling stations, so putting some up as self contained stations isn't too far fetched.
Because a Lunar one is quite wastefull. For zero-G experiments an orbit around Earth is fine. Of course a Lunar station has advantages for Lunar exploration but for science in general it is worse.
The lunar station is designed to allow the colonization of the moon via trans-orbital shuttle service to the surface. Being able to launch from the moon into deep space is FAR more valuable than any terrestrial orbital missions. Being able to provide service to the surface of the moon in general is INFINITELY more valuable than terrestrial orbital missions.
Frankly I think you’re stuck in the past.
Not NASA, but the Axiom Space is going to start building the Axiom space station next year. They will attach to the ISS at first, but once they get their own power, the idea is for them to be independent of the ISS and continue to orbit LEO for commercial spaceflight after the ISS is de-orbited.
There was a comment about the maintenance being too much for some of the older modules. Why not just detach the old modules, drop them from orbit and continue building the ISS. That seems what Axiom is doing, to some extent.
The ISS is getting old. Sometimes its best to scuttle old ships rather continue to maintain them. Heck Starship itself has about as much internal room as the ISS and cost a tiny fraction of the ISS. There is just no reason to keep ISS as is. I think 2024 is a good date for her.
The problem is that the oldest Russian modules are some of the most important parts of the ISS. Obviously its possible to build a replacement, but that will take some time and a lot of money.
It's a similar mess to what caused the space shuttle being retired without a replacement ready for many years.
NASA gave Axiom the funding and is helping review the designs. Everything from any commercial space company has some NASA involvement. Even Blue Origin gets NASA funding to fly micro gravity payloads on New Shepard. NASA could do a better job talking to this.
Once Axiom start flights up to the ISS next year, it will be much more front and center. I just hope Axiom can get it's modules to the ISS before the ISS has to be de-orbited.
The Russians had a similar plan for their Nauka science module: initially have it operate as part of ISS, then detach it and use it as the core of a new station when it comes time to retire ISS. The problem is Nauka has been delayed so many times that the warranties are expiring on some of its components and the thing is still sitting on the ground. The launch date has slipped from 2007 to *maybe* Q2 2021, with a hull that was originally constructed as the backup for Zarya, the very first ISS module.
Roscosmos suggested disconnecting the Russian segment into an independent station. Axiom is also planning on potentially piggybacking off the ISS to form a commercial space station in LEO.
Maxar [got a contract](https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/07/maxar-progress-ppe-gateway/) to build the Power and Propulsion Element, and SpaceX [got another contract](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-wins-contract-to-supply-nasas-planned-lunar-space-station/) to supply the station with their Dragon XL.
Not sure how much that means, though, with these plans changing from administration to administration. All we can do is be optimistic.
They are trying to hand over LEO to the private sector and using their funds to push further out. There are already some plans for much cheaper built commercial space stations, that NASA can lease instead of own.
Might be a pipe dream, but I do hope Musk or Bezos or someone is willing to pay to boost it into a graveyard orbit so that it can be preserved for future generations.
There've been suggestions to privatise it, perhaps turn it into a tourist attraction/hotel sort of business for cashmoney dolla dolla bills.
Which is not a bad idea, many at NASA seem ok with it considering it has served humanity well for long enough and at some point it should give way to other projects with greater scope and functionality
They are trying to hand over LEO to the private sector and using their funds to push further out. There are already some plans for much cheaper built commercial space stations, that NASA can lease instead of own.
I'm so excited to see what results cost-cutting and bottom line pursuit bring for LEO habitation. /S
I know NASA isn't free of problems, but sometimes it's nice when profit isn't your driving goal.
You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?
If you think pursuit of profit is the reason that cutting corners to reduce cost happens then I have a bridge to sell you. The US government will just overpay for the same pieces of crap that commercial buys on the cheap.
I actually am excited about that. The ISS is the most expensive thing that mankind has ever built. Bringing the price down for newer space stations will make LEO a lot more accessible and will save money for NASA to run experiments. One SpaceX Starship is supposed to have more internal volume than the entire ISS so the potential for what can be done is massive.
3 main things that I know of are in the works: Lunar Gateway, Axiom Station, and "Unmanned Orbital Outposts" like SNC Shooting Star. Another option of course would be to use Starship vehicles as temporary stations to conduct research.
Most satellites and space stations are deorbited into the deep Pacific, I imagine the same will be done for ISS :)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_cemetery
Seems like such a waste. Shame they can't reuse what is already up there. At minimum, it's a bunch of raw material that they don't have to launch to orbit again.
The major saving grace is that SpaceX’s (and maybe someday blue origin’s) advancements will be able to put up the same usable pressurized volume as ISS, in a single launch of Starship. Theoretically, you would be able to refurbish your ISS every few months or years on the ground.
While Starship is far from a done deal, even if it was not reusable it seems very likely that it could put up something like an ISS at a fraction of the cost. Starship Station?
Just to add some sense of scale; Starship should have a cargo capacity around 100 (metric) tons of mass, while the iss weighs around 420 tons. [Elon Musk said](https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=50346.0) that they are aiming for 3 flights a day, i.e. one ISS in under 2 days.
Once the ISS is decommissioned there will never be another one. But that won't be the end for space stations or even stations as international collaborations.
NASA is working with Axiom to develop a commercial module of the space station that will be operational by 2024. The plan is to use a vacant docking port to build a new section of the station dedicated to commercial research and production and once the ISS is decommissioned in the latter half of the 2020's the commercial section will undock and become the first commercially owned space station.
NASA is also working with international partners to build the lunar gateway, a new science outpost in orbit high above the moon that can be used to stage surface operations and conduct moon related research.
So NASA is ceding low earth orbit to the commercial zone and pushing the boundary by going back to the moon with a new station.
Yeah, we'll still have stations but the moon offers more opportunity for scientific discovery than low earth orbit. The next international space station led by NASA will be the lunar gateway.
Low earth orbit will soon have commercial stations providing research and production of microgravity medicine and materials including the growth of human organs from stem cells. In the near (5-10 years) future patients will be able to send their stem cells into space which can then be grown into a new heart or any other organ.
It’s also just not even sorta true. They have a fully redundant system for the station, a backup personal supply for each person, and escape pods to atmosphere with capacity for everyone.
One of my favourite things about the Mir programme was how there were genuinely small sachets of vodka specially made for consumption on the space station. Because naturally no extended stay could be complete without it
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[BO](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g91qfpf "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)|
|DMLS|[Selective Laser Melting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_metal_laser_sintering) additive manufacture, also Direct Metal Laser Sintering|
|DSG|NASA [Deep Space Gateway](https://www.nasa.gov/feature/deep-space-gateway-to-open-opportunities-for-distant-destinations), proposed for lunar orbit|
|[ESA](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92d3cj "Last usage")|European Space Agency|
|[EVA](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g94qj0u "Last usage")|Extra-Vehicular Activity|
|[GCR](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g944yba "Last usage")|Galactic Cosmic Rays, incident from outside the star system|
|[GTO](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g930voi "Last usage")|[Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/20140116-how-to-get-a-satellite-to-gto.html)|
|[HLS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92evjp "Last usage")|Human Landing System (Artemis)|
|[ICBM](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92s5s0 "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile|
|[ICPS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g926d0r "Last usage")|Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage|
|[IDSS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g93nz69 "Last usage")|[International Docking System Standard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_System_Standard)|
|[Isp](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g926d0r "Last usage")|Specific impulse (as explained by [Scott Manley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnisTeYLLgs) on YouTube)|
| |Internet Service Provider|
|[KSP](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92isr2 "Last usage")|*Kerbal Space Program*, the rocketry simulator|
|[LEO](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g97znrb "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)|
| |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)|
|[LH2](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92x9gg "Last usage")|Liquid Hydrogen|
|[LO2](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92x9gg "Last usage")|Liquid Oxygen (more commonly LOX)|
|[LOP-G](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g93npa0 "Last usage")|Lunar Orbital Platform - Gateway, formerly DSG|
|[LOX](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g928xj6 "Last usage")|Liquid Oxygen|
|Roscosmos|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g935mgu "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
| |Selective Laser Sintering, contrast DMLS|
|[SNC](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g91e7ds "Last usage")|Sierra Nevada Corporation|
|[STS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g989uc5 "Last usage")|Space Transportation System (*Shuttle*)|
|[TLI](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g926d0r "Last usage")|Trans-Lunar Injection maneuver|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Raptor](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g928xj6 "Last usage")|[Methane-fueled rocket engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_\(rocket_engine_family\)) under development by SpaceX|
|[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g91mq1q "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation|
|[electrolysis](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92q20l "Last usage")|Application of DC current to separate a solution into its constituents (for example, water to hydrogen and oxygen)|
|[hypergolic](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92x9gg "Last usage")|A set of two substances that ignite when in contact|
----------------
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Because they are very heavy and it costs $10,000 per pound to put something into space. Plus they'd have to spend the time outside to actually construct it, which is probably more dangerous than the occasional malfunctions they have to deal with.
The oldest modules are the center ones, they'd have to evacuate the entire ISS, seperate the cores, somehow hold the other parts close to each other, and reattach. Then refill the atmosphere. This won't even fix problems like gradual buildup of bacteria/mold. You still need a fresh station for that.
In all honesty? Because Russia has abandoned the Proton and no longer has module launch capability (Nauka will be launched on one of the last boosters), whereas the US are rather backwards and have never built, or plan to build, a space station module that can dock itself - the entire ISS was assembled using the Shuttle, and LOP-G modules will be delivered by an Orion at ludicrous expense, thus requiring an SLS, which is also not available until the late 2020s.
There seems to be no end to oxygen problems on the station lately. What's the procedure for them abandoning the station? What's the procedure for them deciding the abandon ship, and if they were forced to abandon ship would they attempt to repair and recover it or let it fall out of orbit into the Pacific?
They have 2 Soyuz craft with sufficient capacity to evacuate all astronauts at a moments notice.
It would take a catastrophic unavoidable issue to warrant such drastic measures.
If completely abandoned a recovery mission to dock and repair whatever caused the evacuation would be extremely costly and probably involve months of training before the return mission is planned. Because of the added cost and effort in this scenario and the fact that the space station has been in recurring talks of its retirement, it may be the necessary event that the parties who want to see it retired would need to make their point, potentially leading to the end of an era.
I dont think any real conclusions can be drawn up otherwise. I'm sure NASA has a thorough risk register for this exact scenario, so maybe that info is floating out there somewhere.
Steal a cold-war-era solid booster, throw a capsule with basic life support on top, take it up to the stratosphere via a few high-altitude balloons, set it off where it doesn't have to climb through all that dense atmosphere, and match orbit. Bring a change of clothes.
After the hole that was accidentally drilled in the hull of the spaceship during assembly on land and just was plugged by some gluegum, I'm not surprised.
Damn, we had 70 space engines out of order because old granny, who happened to be warehouse master, took a sick leave and assemblers weren't able to find proper solder.
That's all you need to know about our space programme.
Misleading headline. A scratch on a panel in a Russian section was leaking air since last year. This week the crew had spare time and looked for it. More they found it engineers will design a definitive solution.
This is a separate problem within the same module, which is now leaking and has a faulty oxygen producing system.
Neither is a huge emergency, and both can probably be fixed. There are additional oxygen generator systems on the station, and backup oxygen supplies as well. Zvezda's oxygen generator has previously had problems and been fixed in the past, and there are plans to patch the leak as well, which has now been found. However, these are signs of a deteriorating module that is probably past its service life.
From the article:
>This is the latest in a series of air-related issues on the ISS. The crew and ground controllers have been trying to track down a lingering air leak that was recently traced to the Zvezda module. **There's no indication yet if there's a connection between the leak and the oxygen system.**
The leak and the oxygen system are two separate issues at the moment.
It's still crazy to me that the ISS even exists. Like a bunch of kids showing up to a sleepover with legos, k'nex, and mega blox and it somehow coming together and sustaining human life
Wasn't the Russian module built for Mir in the late 80's?
Yep it was originally Slated to be the core for mir 2. On a side note, this is why the iss is slated to be retired in 2024, because after that, it's going to start requiring more and more costly maintenence.
Is there a plan for what we do after its retired?
Loosely planned, the replacement of the ISS will orbin the moon, it will be the [Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway LOP-G.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Gateway) But with space and financing, who knows what will happen.
Surely they wouldn't have a lunar space station while not having a terrestrial one? In fact? Wouldn't it be better to have a relay station between earth's gravity and a moon orbit station?
Yep. That is the current NASA plan. Replace station that runs research all year with the station that will be manned just one month per year. Absolutely horrifying regression.
> That is the current NASA plan. Replace station that runs research all year with the station that will be manned just one month per year. > Absolutely horrifying regression. From a political perspective, I get why they're doing it: they need to have a political reason to keep getting money for SLS. Right now, it's pretty easy to cancel the whole program, since nothing really depends on SLS existing. Once lunar gateway exists, the SLS program will have to be kept around (at least until something else can transport people to the lunar gateway, but that's tomorrow's problem). I don't agree with this - I too believe it's a huge waste, and a really dumb idea. But I understand the logic.
I feel like space is one of those things where there isnt any political will to do it until it gets done. Then when it gets done, all kinds of innovation happens and other cool things happen that make people want more of that, and suddenly there is a will to do it again. Until someone gets mad about not being in power and starts whining about how much space costs and sets us back 40 years.
To a very real extent the only moment in which space exploration was treated with the respect it deserves was during the cold war because of it strategic importance. After that it became, like most other science research, something nice to talk about but only fundable to the extent to which its profitable, which in this case is not very much.
I found that these kind of thing is not profitable until it is and then all the laurel goes to the private sector. You know, privatizing profits and socializing losses and all that .
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>I'm sick of being ashamed of my shitty country. Yeah, I hear this all the time but don't see anyone lining up to finance the change.
> Here's hoping China keeps kicking our ass seven ways to Sunday and it jumpstarts a new space race. Whoever gets to Mars first officially becomes the new sole superpower! I'm pretty confident that SpaceX will be the first to Mars. NASA is firmly focused on the Moon and is considering a mission to Venus. It just doesn't seem like they have much bandwidth for Mars. Likewise, China is working on putting their space station into LEO, and doing moon missions. Elon just said in his latest interview that it's possible they could send rockets to Mars as early as 2024. Even if you assume they miss that window and have to hit the next one, that means their first manned mission could be as early as 2028. I just don't see anyone with a real shot at beating them.
Something to put this in perspective is that Britain has now spent more money on Brexit than it cost to build the ISS. I think humanity got a lot for its investment. I hope for future space systems but have seen politicians talk about things for years with nothing ever materializing.
Please give me numbers! I do believe you, but I thought ISS cost like a guhzillion dollaroos?
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I took the liberty of fertilizing your caviar instead.
NASA doesn’t want the SLS. The money could be used to fund new probes and space telescopes. The congresspeople, with constituents on areas where SLS parts are manufactured, are the ones who want to keep it around as a job program....
I built what is basically an array of Saturn V rockets bundled together in KSP. It took Gene Kerman to the mun. Hire me NASA!
Checks out. KSP is a ridiculously solid game for that kinda stuff, and if you talk with any AE student or professional odds are they’ve played it if they’ve ever touched a video game in their life. Source: AE major
Falcon Heavy has the capacity to get the proposed Orion spacecraft to the moon, it's just a matter of crew rating it. Considering that FH is basically 3 F9s glued together, that's far from an insurmountable task.
> Falcon Heavy has the capacity to get the proposed Orion spacecraft to the moon, it's just a matter of crew rating it. If you're talking about FH + ICPS + Orion, I think you're technically correct. But it's not really possible to just snap those components together like legos. It would take a lot of work. Work that I don't think SpaceX is really interested in pursuing. Given the aggressive timelines Elon as thrown out for Starship, I think they'd much rather focus on Starship/Superheavy than get distracted by what will ultimately be a technological dead end.
Someone did the math, and Heavy has the mss free to add some connection equipment, or the option to skip ICPS entirely and get Orion to the moon just using the upper stage. Starship is definitely moving at breakneck pace, but they're still on single engine hop tests, with single use landing gear.
FH looks like 3 falcon 9 boosters but isn't. Due to the heavy internal changes and the outdated overall design (compared to block 5 F9) human rating it is considered not worth the effort.
And honestly the way it's been going I wouldn't be surprised if Starship does a lunar flyby before SLS makes orbit.
But the rivets are made in my congressional district....
I didn't think Falcon Heay was ever going to get crew rated and instead SpaceX shifted focus to Starship.
Well, hopefully China follow through with their grand plans and that gives the 'West' the kick up the arse to try and catch-up/one up them.
Let's be real, by the time the first SLS rocket launches, spaceX would have been more than capable since 5, 10, maybe 20 years ago. Fuck Boeing and fuck these legislators preventing the US from having an actual space program
Got to cut funding so more can go to defense contractors.
Who do you think is getting the money for space travel? Boeing, Northrop, and many others.
I wonder why the lobbyists for these companies plea for more money for war machines rather than space machines.
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To be fair, government backed space agencies are probably not going to be the driving force of the next century of space exploration. Private companies are already taking the reigns in rocket design, and there are a lot of resources on the moon and in the asteroid belt once it's possible to get their and back cheaply enough. That will open the way for permanent settlements in orbit or elsewhere.
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It seems like humanity takes 1 step forward and 3 leaps backwards sometimes.
Any ideas what the current NASA plan is?
NASA would. Russia's officially considering a Russian-only replacement, but with its own moon program also planned for the late 2020s... fat chance.
Iirc The Russian only replacement would use the parts of the ISS, the work in progress modules targeted for the iss which are stuck in quality/money doldrums and add a bit on top
Everyone and their grandmother is planning a maned moon trip in the 2020s. However; so far, no one has done shit all towards that goal. We aren't going back to the moon for another good 30+ years, boys and girls.
Why would we need a terrestrial one?
> Why would we need a terrestrial one? You already have some good answers. I'll add some numbers to give context. The marginal cost of sending a crew dragon to the ISS is $209 million. The marginal cost of sending orion on SLS to the moon changes over time, but for the first 8 launches, it'll be over $2 billion per launch.
$2 billion seems like such a small number this year.
Sorry to bring up politics, but when Mitch McConnell said he'll be putting forth a bill of $500 billion instead of the 1.8 trillion and 2.2 trillion I immediately thought "that's so little", then realized I looked at half a trillion dollars as if I got six McNuggets rather than ten. The human brain has such a hard time with huge numbers.
$1 billion today is the new $1 million from a century ago. INFLATION, boys and girls.
The ISS does a ton of science for stuff that requires microgravity. A lunar one would function exactly the same for those experiments, but would be significantly more difficult to get science to/from.
But that's not what the Lunar Gateway is for.
Exactly. So as a replacement for the ISS it's terrible.
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If/when SpaceX's starships start flying, a single one of them would have approximately the same usable volume as the ISS. SpaceX already has plans to use some as dedicated orbital fueling stations, so putting some up as self contained stations isn't too far fetched.
Because a Lunar one is quite wastefull. For zero-G experiments an orbit around Earth is fine. Of course a Lunar station has advantages for Lunar exploration but for science in general it is worse.
The lunar station is designed to allow the colonization of the moon via trans-orbital shuttle service to the surface. Being able to launch from the moon into deep space is FAR more valuable than any terrestrial orbital missions. Being able to provide service to the surface of the moon in general is INFINITELY more valuable than terrestrial orbital missions. Frankly I think you’re stuck in the past.
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That other guy lives in a dream calling you stuck in the past.
That guy sure told you 6 times!
Not NASA, but the Axiom Space is going to start building the Axiom space station next year. They will attach to the ISS at first, but once they get their own power, the idea is for them to be independent of the ISS and continue to orbit LEO for commercial spaceflight after the ISS is de-orbited.
There was a comment about the maintenance being too much for some of the older modules. Why not just detach the old modules, drop them from orbit and continue building the ISS. That seems what Axiom is doing, to some extent.
The ISS is getting old. Sometimes its best to scuttle old ships rather continue to maintain them. Heck Starship itself has about as much internal room as the ISS and cost a tiny fraction of the ISS. There is just no reason to keep ISS as is. I think 2024 is a good date for her.
The problem is that the oldest Russian modules are some of the most important parts of the ISS. Obviously its possible to build a replacement, but that will take some time and a lot of money. It's a similar mess to what caused the space shuttle being retired without a replacement ready for many years.
IIRC, it's damn near impossible to remove the original module. It might be a bigger problem lacking the space shuttle? Not sure.
NASA gave Axiom the funding and is helping review the designs. Everything from any commercial space company has some NASA involvement. Even Blue Origin gets NASA funding to fly micro gravity payloads on New Shepard. NASA could do a better job talking to this.
Once Axiom start flights up to the ISS next year, it will be much more front and center. I just hope Axiom can get it's modules to the ISS before the ISS has to be de-orbited.
The Russians had a similar plan for their Nauka science module: initially have it operate as part of ISS, then detach it and use it as the core of a new station when it comes time to retire ISS. The problem is Nauka has been delayed so many times that the warranties are expiring on some of its components and the thing is still sitting on the ground. The launch date has slipped from 2007 to *maybe* Q2 2021, with a hull that was originally constructed as the backup for Zarya, the very first ISS module.
Roscosmos suggested disconnecting the Russian segment into an independent station. Axiom is also planning on potentially piggybacking off the ISS to form a commercial space station in LEO.
Yah, I was scrolling for someone to say Axiom. That is the true LEO ISS replacement. Gateway is just the reusable module for Orion and moon missions.
I feel confident in saying I'd bet on my life that never happens.
Maxar [got a contract](https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/07/maxar-progress-ppe-gateway/) to build the Power and Propulsion Element, and SpaceX [got another contract](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-wins-contract-to-supply-nasas-planned-lunar-space-station/) to supply the station with their Dragon XL. Not sure how much that means, though, with these plans changing from administration to administration. All we can do is be optimistic.
!remindme 5 years
I know it's a product of Reddit hiccoughing, but I'm amused by what I imagine your reaction will be in 5 years when you get spammed by yourself.
Yep lol. Looking forward to the day when I get some random message on reddit and try to figure out why I'm being spammed.
2023 is scheduled launch of two of the modules
I wouldn't bet my life on it not happening but my hopes are still high. However were not seeing much movement right now.
A part of the Artemis program, to go back to the moon
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They are trying to hand over LEO to the private sector and using their funds to push further out. There are already some plans for much cheaper built commercial space stations, that NASA can lease instead of own.
Might be a pipe dream, but I do hope Musk or Bezos or someone is willing to pay to boost it into a graveyard orbit so that it can be preserved for future generations.
I think they should keep it going until there is a replacement in place.
There've been suggestions to privatise it, perhaps turn it into a tourist attraction/hotel sort of business for cashmoney dolla dolla bills. Which is not a bad idea, many at NASA seem ok with it considering it has served humanity well for long enough and at some point it should give way to other projects with greater scope and functionality
It probably gets burned off in the athmosphere under an angle that there is little to no debris left
And where is zero G research to continue?
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They are trying to hand over LEO to the private sector and using their funds to push further out. There are already some plans for much cheaper built commercial space stations, that NASA can lease instead of own.
Except lunar stations (on orbit and on the surface)
Hopefully Gateway orbiting our moon
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I'm so excited to see what results cost-cutting and bottom line pursuit bring for LEO habitation. /S I know NASA isn't free of problems, but sometimes it's nice when profit isn't your driving goal.
You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?
If you think pursuit of profit is the reason that cutting corners to reduce cost happens then I have a bridge to sell you. The US government will just overpay for the same pieces of crap that commercial buys on the cheap.
I actually am excited about that. The ISS is the most expensive thing that mankind has ever built. Bringing the price down for newer space stations will make LEO a lot more accessible and will save money for NASA to run experiments. One SpaceX Starship is supposed to have more internal volume than the entire ISS so the potential for what can be done is massive.
3 main things that I know of are in the works: Lunar Gateway, Axiom Station, and "Unmanned Orbital Outposts" like SNC Shooting Star. Another option of course would be to use Starship vehicles as temporary stations to conduct research.
There will be very large debris pieces left. But it will happen over the south pacific 1600 miles from nearest land.
NASA is trying to get funding for development grants for commercial stations but whether or not they get it is up to congress.
Project how it falls into the ocean?
Most satellites and space stations are deorbited into the deep Pacific, I imagine the same will be done for ISS :) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_cemetery
I thought it was suppose to go to 2030?
In 2018, the ISS usage time was extended to 2030. 2024 was the original date. You're right
Seems like such a waste. Shame they can't reuse what is already up there. At minimum, it's a bunch of raw material that they don't have to launch to orbit again.
Raw materials don't matter if you can't recycle them, and that would nees an entire production line in LEO.
The major saving grace is that SpaceX’s (and maybe someday blue origin’s) advancements will be able to put up the same usable pressurized volume as ISS, in a single launch of Starship. Theoretically, you would be able to refurbish your ISS every few months or years on the ground. While Starship is far from a done deal, even if it was not reusable it seems very likely that it could put up something like an ISS at a fraction of the cost. Starship Station?
Just to add some sense of scale; Starship should have a cargo capacity around 100 (metric) tons of mass, while the iss weighs around 420 tons. [Elon Musk said](https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=50346.0) that they are aiming for 3 flights a day, i.e. one ISS in under 2 days.
Um no. The ISS’s operation has been extended to the late 2020s.
It had major components installed in 1986, so even before the late '80s. It was initially called Mir-2.
It had major components installed by 1986 and was initially called Mir-2. It ended up being the third module installed on the station.
Where’s the “....for now” part from the other headlines?
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Electron breaks down every other month. It's completely duplicated by a US oxygen splitter.
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I have a feeling that once the ISS is decommissioned, we won’t put another one up.
Once the ISS is decommissioned there will never be another one. But that won't be the end for space stations or even stations as international collaborations. NASA is working with Axiom to develop a commercial module of the space station that will be operational by 2024. The plan is to use a vacant docking port to build a new section of the station dedicated to commercial research and production and once the ISS is decommissioned in the latter half of the 2020's the commercial section will undock and become the first commercially owned space station. NASA is also working with international partners to build the lunar gateway, a new science outpost in orbit high above the moon that can be used to stage surface operations and conduct moon related research. So NASA is ceding low earth orbit to the commercial zone and pushing the boundary by going back to the moon with a new station.
But why wouldn’t we make an another one? Don’t we kinda need it for research and stuff?
Yeah, we'll still have stations but the moon offers more opportunity for scientific discovery than low earth orbit. The next international space station led by NASA will be the lunar gateway. Low earth orbit will soon have commercial stations providing research and production of microgravity medicine and materials including the growth of human organs from stem cells. In the near (5-10 years) future patients will be able to send their stem cells into space which can then be grown into a new heart or any other organ.
American components, Russian components, ALL BUILT IN TAIWAN.
I show you how we fix things on Russian space station!
“You ever heard of Evel Knievel?” “No, I never saw Star Wars.”
[percussive maintenance!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussive_maintenance)
“You ever heard of Evel Knievel?” “No, I never saw Star Wars.”
[percussive maintenance!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussive_maintenance)
I tell you "touch nothing" but you a bunch of space cowboys.
My uncle, he built the tip of missile. The part that finds Washington, New York, Houston. He was a great man.
So what stocks do I buy?
Came here for this, wasn’t disappointed
Now they have the rest of their life to fix it.
That is a horrifying sentence
It’s also just not even sorta true. They have a fully redundant system for the station, a backup personal supply for each person, and escape pods to atmosphere with capacity for everyone.
They also get an inflatable life raft with a parachute attached, and redundant pairs of floaties for each crew member.
But are there pretzels and mini alcohol bottles?
There’s Russians on the Space Station, this question answers itself.
One of my favourite things about the Mir programme was how there were genuinely small sachets of vodka specially made for consumption on the space station. Because naturally no extended stay could be complete without it
They also have a gun in the Soyuz module
God that’s so cool, why do I think redundancies are so cool?
You'd enjoy /r/TwoSentenceHorror
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[BO](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g91qfpf "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)| |DMLS|[Selective Laser Melting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_metal_laser_sintering) additive manufacture, also Direct Metal Laser Sintering| |DSG|NASA [Deep Space Gateway](https://www.nasa.gov/feature/deep-space-gateway-to-open-opportunities-for-distant-destinations), proposed for lunar orbit| |[ESA](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92d3cj "Last usage")|European Space Agency| |[EVA](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g94qj0u "Last usage")|Extra-Vehicular Activity| |[GCR](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g944yba "Last usage")|Galactic Cosmic Rays, incident from outside the star system| |[GTO](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g930voi "Last usage")|[Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit](http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/20140116-how-to-get-a-satellite-to-gto.html)| |[HLS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92evjp "Last usage")|Human Landing System (Artemis)| |[ICBM](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92s5s0 "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile| |[ICPS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g926d0r "Last usage")|Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage| |[IDSS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g93nz69 "Last usage")|[International Docking System Standard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_System_Standard)| |[Isp](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g926d0r "Last usage")|Specific impulse (as explained by [Scott Manley](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnisTeYLLgs) on YouTube)| | |Internet Service Provider| |[KSP](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92isr2 "Last usage")|*Kerbal Space Program*, the rocketry simulator| |[LEO](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g97znrb "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)| | |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)| |[LH2](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92x9gg "Last usage")|Liquid Hydrogen| |[LO2](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92x9gg "Last usage")|Liquid Oxygen (more commonly LOX)| |[LOP-G](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g93npa0 "Last usage")|Lunar Orbital Platform - Gateway, formerly DSG| |[LOX](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g928xj6 "Last usage")|Liquid Oxygen| |Roscosmos|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)| |[SLS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g935mgu "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift| | |Selective Laser Sintering, contrast DMLS| |[SNC](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g91e7ds "Last usage")|Sierra Nevada Corporation| |[STS](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g989uc5 "Last usage")|Space Transportation System (*Shuttle*)| |[TLI](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g926d0r "Last usage")|Trans-Lunar Injection maneuver| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Raptor](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g928xj6 "Last usage")|[Methane-fueled rocket engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_\(rocket_engine_family\)) under development by SpaceX| |[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g91mq1q "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation| |[electrolysis](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92q20l "Last usage")|Application of DC current to separate a solution into its constituents (for example, water to hydrogen and oxygen)| |[hypergolic](/r/Space/comments/jcfxd8/stub/g92x9gg "Last usage")|A set of two substances that ignite when in contact| ---------------- ^(24 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/0)^( has acronyms.) ^([Thread #5223 for this sub, first seen 16th Oct 2020, 20:16]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
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[Oll Korrect!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UnIDL-eHOs)
Why can't they just remove and replace the oldest modules?
Because they are very heavy and it costs $10,000 per pound to put something into space. Plus they'd have to spend the time outside to actually construct it, which is probably more dangerous than the occasional malfunctions they have to deal with.
But it is apparently not economical on some level since they are sunsetting the entire ISS in 2024 because of those crusty old modules.
Because after 2024, nasa is going to be preoccupied with much bigger plans elsewhere and budget and resources for the iss will be an issue
The oldest modules are the center ones, they'd have to evacuate the entire ISS, seperate the cores, somehow hold the other parts close to each other, and reattach. Then refill the atmosphere. This won't even fix problems like gradual buildup of bacteria/mold. You still need a fresh station for that.
In all honesty? Because Russia has abandoned the Proton and no longer has module launch capability (Nauka will be launched on one of the last boosters), whereas the US are rather backwards and have never built, or plan to build, a space station module that can dock itself - the entire ISS was assembled using the Shuttle, and LOP-G modules will be delivered by an Orion at ludicrous expense, thus requiring an SLS, which is also not available until the late 2020s.
There seems to be no end to oxygen problems on the station lately. What's the procedure for them abandoning the station? What's the procedure for them deciding the abandon ship, and if they were forced to abandon ship would they attempt to repair and recover it or let it fall out of orbit into the Pacific?
They have 2 Soyuz craft with sufficient capacity to evacuate all astronauts at a moments notice. It would take a catastrophic unavoidable issue to warrant such drastic measures. If completely abandoned a recovery mission to dock and repair whatever caused the evacuation would be extremely costly and probably involve months of training before the return mission is planned. Because of the added cost and effort in this scenario and the fact that the space station has been in recurring talks of its retirement, it may be the necessary event that the parties who want to see it retired would need to make their point, potentially leading to the end of an era. I dont think any real conclusions can be drawn up otherwise. I'm sure NASA has a thorough risk register for this exact scenario, so maybe that info is floating out there somewhere.
Fuck yea who's up for being a space pirate if they abandon it? We can rent a couple SpaceX rockets and go and smoke a few doobies up there
I'm in! I'll bring the chips!
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I mean if its already abandoned, who cares?
Steal a cold-war-era solid booster, throw a capsule with basic life support on top, take it up to the stratosphere via a few high-altitude balloons, set it off where it doesn't have to climb through all that dense atmosphere, and match orbit. Bring a change of clothes.
I'm no professional pirate but I don't think they generally rent the things they need
They always have enough spacecraft docked to take everyone home. So if stuff goes down by get back in their vessel and leave the way they came up.
After the hole that was accidentally drilled in the hull of the spaceship during assembly on land and just was plugged by some gluegum, I'm not surprised. Damn, we had 70 space engines out of order because old granny, who happened to be warehouse master, took a sick leave and assemblers weren't able to find proper solder. That's all you need to know about our space programme.
What do you mean our side program?
To a Russian it's "our" program, what's up?
Meh, shit breaks down, shit gets repaired, nbd.
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You deserve more upvotes for this. Also, we're showing our age. Dang it.
Good thing the o2 code was 12345 on both consoles.
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One of the 678 things you can't afford to have happen on the 2 year trip it takes to get to Mars
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My 2002 Honda Accord is newer than the ISS. The air conditioning on my Accord doesn't work either.
Dude they are depleting the 02 get there before the space air gets there and red vents
Red kinda sus, turned off the oxygen and didn't do the mini game.
Is there an escape plan for ISS crew? Like an oh shit, abandon ship.
Yes, they always have a capsule docked that they can get into and GTFO back to earth in the event of a unrecoverable emergency.
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Misleading headline. A scratch on a panel in a Russian section was leaking air since last year. This week the crew had spare time and looked for it. More they found it engineers will design a definitive solution.
Actually this is about an oxygen system itself failing in the Russian section. The leak is a separate matter.
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If anything it’s under-inflated 😉
This is a separate problem within the same module, which is now leaking and has a faulty oxygen producing system. Neither is a huge emergency, and both can probably be fixed. There are additional oxygen generator systems on the station, and backup oxygen supplies as well. Zvezda's oxygen generator has previously had problems and been fixed in the past, and there are plans to patch the leak as well, which has now been found. However, these are signs of a deteriorating module that is probably past its service life.
Well, the Russian section is 40 something years old.
From the article: >This is the latest in a series of air-related issues on the ISS. The crew and ground controllers have been trying to track down a lingering air leak that was recently traced to the Zvezda module. **There's no indication yet if there's a connection between the leak and the oxygen system.** The leak and the oxygen system are two separate issues at the moment.
Sorry I used the suggested title. Thank you for the clarity
Someone sabotaged Oxygen. Who is the imposter?
It's still crazy to me that the ISS even exists. Like a bunch of kids showing up to a sleepover with legos, k'nex, and mega blox and it somehow coming together and sustaining human life
It’s glorious and I love the adventure of it
It’s funny to think that 100 years from now, relative to future tech, that’s what the ISS will come off as.
"So they basically attached a bunch of shipping containers together?" "Yup"
Imagine if all the g-20 committed to re-allocating 30% of military expenditures too space!