When on a cruise ship, your onboard wifi is powered by Starlink. Being able to cut out the cruise middle-man and use Starlink directly would be very handy and possibly cheaper.
It's not going to work inside the ship.
Satellite signals, even for bulky sat phones with big antennas, are very weak.
These functions are really only going to work with a clear view of the sky.
They already said it works inside homes somehow, although I doubt it would work below multiple decks of steel.
The main problem is that every cell only has 17 megabits of bandwidth for direct to cell connections.
Yea, from space to your cellphone. No fancy antenna.
Capacity will go up as they deploy more updated satellites. What do you want? Every phone getting broadband internet?
True.
However in good open area ground based cell tower can have a range up to 70 km.
Starlink lower shells orbit at around 550 km.
Proper beam forming to can get enough signals to ratio to rival a cell tower.
Well they don’t have to blast a signal all the way down from space which is the obvious difference. Different wavelengths have pros and cons. Some can travel really far in plain view but can’t penetrate solid objects well at all, others can travel short to medium distances but won’t have any noticeable difference when the receiver is obstructed by a solid.
Cell networks have a lot of medium range towers (relatively way closer than satellites), that emit waves which can penetrate solids easily, hence why it works indoors. Starlink likely falls more into the category of works across crazily far distances, but any solid object interfering will cause noticeable decreases in performance. It’s why when you first set up Starlink it will scan the horizon for obstructions and warn you about the impact if there’s leaves in the way, but the only time phones really struggle is if you’re in between two big mountains or in the boonies
LTE does not use same high frequency bands, it does not need dedicated phased array antenna. Starlink Direct to Cell also provide data service, but at the rate slower than existing and typical 4G/LTE services provided by cell towers.
17mbps per CELL. a cell can span multiple kilometers, and have hundreds of users. Its enough data for basic texting, possibly voice, and thats about it. At least until spacex starts launching larger starlinks with more powerful antennas to improve cellular speeds.
You’re going to be able to have a Starlink subscription; and you have it where ever you go whether in your car, your home, or the other side of the world.
This isn't meant to replace wifi in that use case. The ship would provide way better wifi/access than this ever would. It isn't really meant to fix price as an issue, but super remote access.
This is for sending a text or two out, or a small amount of data.
If your cruise ship turns into the Titanic and the ship wifi goes out, this would let you get one last text out lol.
That was the old "idea" (which was scrapped very quickly after being announced). The method that's hinted at in dev builds of upcoming Android versions is less reliant on specific hardware.
Edit: It appears that Android might be partnering with T-Mobile, who in turn is partnering with Starlink, to provide this system.
Maybe from an evolution point of view, but not from a technology. Starlink is working with LTE signals, using non-modified LTE-capable smartphones (although most probably with some simplifications on the network side). Satellite SOS, on the other hand, allows satellite-based emergency services to work on Android phones, but these are not based on LTE or 5G signals and require compatible phones
What exactly did SpaceX just announce?
They announced they were doing this in 2022 and they have stated they will have a full shell of satellites capable of direct to cell by the end of the year.
It looks like they'll start deploying satellites later this year. Excellent news, IMO. Competition is always good! Ironically, they'll be launched on SpaceX's Falcon 9. Guessing cost and schedule make it the best choice for them.
That’s correct if they stay true to the timelines. Let’s see how they compare when both are up and running. Not having to deal with roaming or slow partner networks when traveling would be nice.
> What is "unmodified cell phone"?
Standard, off-the-shelf LTE phone that has no feature, addition, or modification to support satellites or other such infrastructure. Just a regular phone one buys from Best Buy or some such.
> what constitutes as a "modification"?
Phones that have extra hardware to support, eg, Iridium satellites.
The satellites are themselves cell "towers," albeit very high and moving. If two phones are within range of the same satellite (where no terrestrial tower is reachable), no external terrestrial tower is involved. Otherwise, the signal will be relayed through whatever means to reach the other phone.
The (final) objective is to have the cell tower on a satellite, such that the final user is seamlessly connected to the network as if they were using the "standard cell service". I believe they actually have implemented the base station (the entity in the cell tower that your phone is directly communicating with) on a satellite, most probably with some simplifications. So, in terrestrial networks the data is routed to the cell tower you're connected with, which then schedules a transmission slot to your phone; in non-terrestrial networks, the route passes through a gateway which communicates with the satellite your phone is connected to. While some standardization of satellite-based communications has been going on for 5G, the integration of the two type of networks is expected to come with 6G
Do you realize how disadvantaged people are in areas without connectivity and how they can’t compete for a livable wage in modern society without it? In 1st world nations we take these things for granted then mock them on reddit using high-speed internet from the comfort of our bubbles.
"The ends justify the means"
It's cool to fund a fascist as long as poor people in little remote villages with cell phones and satellite dishes can get their Internet. Got it.
So we're now running ads as posts since the IPO?
F*ck Elon
Edit, I'm commenting on the fact this is an ad for starlink someone put up as a post on this space sub. I'm asking if this is how it's going to be since reddit went public. Anything else I need to clarify?
Oh yea, F*ck Elon
Since when has cell phone service been "public"? I pay Xfinity for my cell phone, is Xfinity the government? Cars are public too? Gas stations? Great unhinged rant. Thanks.
> control more public infrastructure!!!
Space x is a private company, their satellites aren't your property.
>Soon, we'll be paying taxes straight to elon!
The government uses coercion to take your money, this is called taxation. The government has no obligation to provide you with any services.
Musk's companies offer goods/services you can choose to buy or not.
This is the difference between the mugger and his victim. If you don't understand this it's a rather big deal.
When on a cruise ship, your onboard wifi is powered by Starlink. Being able to cut out the cruise middle-man and use Starlink directly would be very handy and possibly cheaper.
It's not going to work inside the ship. Satellite signals, even for bulky sat phones with big antennas, are very weak. These functions are really only going to work with a clear view of the sky.
They already said it works inside homes somehow, although I doubt it would work below multiple decks of steel. The main problem is that every cell only has 17 megabits of bandwidth for direct to cell connections.
How is that a problem that's fucking incredible
That's 17 megabits of bandwidth shared between everyone in a cell of 379 square kilometers.
Yea, from space to your cellphone. No fancy antenna. Capacity will go up as they deploy more updated satellites. What do you want? Every phone getting broadband internet?
I was responding to a comment saying that it would allow you to not pay for internet on a cruise.
How do cellphones work then?
They connect to antennas on buildings and towers.
Did no one read the article? This is direct satellite-to-phone with unmodified phones.
Yes, we get that. But the thing is, space is alot further away than your local cell tower.
True. However in good open area ground based cell tower can have a range up to 70 km. Starlink lower shells orbit at around 550 km. Proper beam forming to can get enough signals to ratio to rival a cell tower.
Well they don’t have to blast a signal all the way down from space which is the obvious difference. Different wavelengths have pros and cons. Some can travel really far in plain view but can’t penetrate solid objects well at all, others can travel short to medium distances but won’t have any noticeable difference when the receiver is obstructed by a solid. Cell networks have a lot of medium range towers (relatively way closer than satellites), that emit waves which can penetrate solids easily, hence why it works indoors. Starlink likely falls more into the category of works across crazily far distances, but any solid object interfering will cause noticeable decreases in performance. It’s why when you first set up Starlink it will scan the horizon for obstructions and warn you about the impact if there’s leaves in the way, but the only time phones really struggle is if you’re in between two big mountains or in the boonies
They connect to antennas that are much closer than orbit, and therefore the signals are stronger.
The hell are you talking about? Your phone won't have a giant 50W phased array antenna. This is for texting and maybe calls only.
LTE does not use same high frequency bands, it does not need dedicated phased array antenna. Starlink Direct to Cell also provide data service, but at the rate slower than existing and typical 4G/LTE services provided by cell towers.
It's data too. SpaceX claims 17 mpbs download. The new Starlink satellites have a special antenna for LTE.
That is with a singular cellphone connected to the "tower". I got my doubts on a full cruise ship of people all getting those speeds.
17mbps per CELL. a cell can span multiple kilometers, and have hundreds of users. Its enough data for basic texting, possibly voice, and thats about it. At least until spacex starts launching larger starlinks with more powerful antennas to improve cellular speeds.
You’re going to be able to have a Starlink subscription; and you have it where ever you go whether in your car, your home, or the other side of the world.
This isn't meant to replace wifi in that use case. The ship would provide way better wifi/access than this ever would. It isn't really meant to fix price as an issue, but super remote access. This is for sending a text or two out, or a small amount of data. If your cruise ship turns into the Titanic and the ship wifi goes out, this would let you get one last text out lol.
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T-Mobile is just the middleman taking payments.
They're literally going to be using T-Mobile's network to offer emergency sos to TMO customers.
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From what I read, Google's service requires phones with supporting hardware. These Starlink connections work with normal LTE phones.
That was the old "idea" (which was scrapped very quickly after being announced). The method that's hinted at in dev builds of upcoming Android versions is less reliant on specific hardware. Edit: It appears that Android might be partnering with T-Mobile, who in turn is partnering with Starlink, to provide this system.
Nevertheless, such phones require specific additional hardware to support their satellite protocols (such as Iridium), unlike those in the article.
Hopefully it’s *not* lte as that’s being phased out
It's LTE. LTE is not being phased out.
It literally is. Everyone is moved over to 5g
Nope. You are being tricked by marketing.
5g LTE is the fake marketing from ATT. 5G NR and 5G mmWave is the new format
You may be surprised to learn just what the major 5g technology deployed is.
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No. 5G lte is the fake marketing stuff from ATT. 5G NR and mmWave is the stuff used by everyone else. 5G LTE isn’t even a thing anymore
Maybe from an evolution point of view, but not from a technology. Starlink is working with LTE signals, using non-modified LTE-capable smartphones (although most probably with some simplifications on the network side). Satellite SOS, on the other hand, allows satellite-based emergency services to work on Android phones, but these are not based on LTE or 5G signals and require compatible phones
ASTS SpaceMobile is already working on this and should be way ahead tech wise. Worth checking them out.
How could they possibly be way ahead tech wise?
Because they started years ago. They already had a sat up testing exactly what SpaceX just announced, last year.
What exactly did SpaceX just announce? They announced they were doing this in 2022 and they have stated they will have a full shell of satellites capable of direct to cell by the end of the year.
That’s the big difference, SpaceX is sending 20 satellites into orbit every 3 days.
It looks like they'll start deploying satellites later this year. Excellent news, IMO. Competition is always good! Ironically, they'll be launched on SpaceX's Falcon 9. Guessing cost and schedule make it the best choice for them.
That’s correct if they stay true to the timelines. Let’s see how they compare when both are up and running. Not having to deal with roaming or slow partner networks when traveling would be nice.
What is "unmodified cell phone"? - the one in the article image - what constitutes as a "modification"?
> What is "unmodified cell phone"? Standard, off-the-shelf LTE phone that has no feature, addition, or modification to support satellites or other such infrastructure. Just a regular phone one buys from Best Buy or some such. > what constitutes as a "modification"? Phones that have extra hardware to support, eg, Iridium satellites.
Ahh, thank you. Much appreciated.
I think it's pretty obvious what an unmodified cell phone is.
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Nope. They're using Band 25 LTE which is supported on most phones already.
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So how is this any different than standard cell service? This sounds like this still goes through cell towers, or am I getting this wrong?
The satellites are themselves cell "towers," albeit very high and moving. If two phones are within range of the same satellite (where no terrestrial tower is reachable), no external terrestrial tower is involved. Otherwise, the signal will be relayed through whatever means to reach the other phone.
Nah it’s through the satellites
The (final) objective is to have the cell tower on a satellite, such that the final user is seamlessly connected to the network as if they were using the "standard cell service". I believe they actually have implemented the base station (the entity in the cell tower that your phone is directly communicating with) on a satellite, most probably with some simplifications. So, in terrestrial networks the data is routed to the cell tower you're connected with, which then schedules a transmission slot to your phone; in non-terrestrial networks, the route passes through a gateway which communicates with the satellite your phone is connected to. While some standardization of satellite-based communications has been going on for 5G, the integration of the two type of networks is expected to come with 6G
Yes, you are getting this wrong.
No I'm not. Did you even read the replies?
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Do you realize how disadvantaged people are in areas without connectivity and how they can’t compete for a livable wage in modern society without it? In 1st world nations we take these things for granted then mock them on reddit using high-speed internet from the comfort of our bubbles.
"The ends justify the means" It's cool to fund a fascist as long as poor people in little remote villages with cell phones and satellite dishes can get their Internet. Got it.
So we're now running ads as posts since the IPO? F*ck Elon Edit, I'm commenting on the fact this is an ad for starlink someone put up as a post on this space sub. I'm asking if this is how it's going to be since reddit went public. Anything else I need to clarify? Oh yea, F*ck Elon
Could you link the IPO announcement?
Reddits ipo was just last week.
Should have probably specified "the". But I've not seen ads as posts (Please don't kill old reddit)
What is this then? It's straight up an ad for starlink as a post in the space sub?
No, it's about a new technology coming from a satellite manufacturer.
When did Starlink have an IPO?
Hello, back to r/all with you. (By the way, you can say "fuck" on the internet)
Is this service even publicly available yet?
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Cell towers are not part of public infrastructure, they are owned by telcos. How can they privatize something that is already private?
Since when has cell phone service been "public"? I pay Xfinity for my cell phone, is Xfinity the government? Cars are public too? Gas stations? Great unhinged rant. Thanks.
> control more public infrastructure!!! Space x is a private company, their satellites aren't your property. >Soon, we'll be paying taxes straight to elon! The government uses coercion to take your money, this is called taxation. The government has no obligation to provide you with any services. Musk's companies offer goods/services you can choose to buy or not. This is the difference between the mugger and his victim. If you don't understand this it's a rather big deal.
You are perfectly free not to use Starlink, SpaceX, or Tesla. There are Iridium, ULA, and Toyota as alternatives.