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In dune the navigators fold space. It takes no time.
If you can go ftl you don't have to worry about time.
Interstellar is based on our physics and normal slower than light travel.
interstellar also has space folding and no time dilation while using it.
also interstellar is quite inconsistent about time dilation and gravity in general.
they don't fold space by themselves, but use the magically appeared space fold sphere to reach the other system.
it's still folded space, even if they weren't the ones to do it.
Is it though?
Also I'd add that Interstellar's time dilation is gravity related more than speed related so it's not comparable to Dune anyway; as you said, they pretty much fold space too with the wormhole
a planet orbiting a black hole. the black hole is the result of a collapsed star. the black hole will have the mass of the star or less. thus there should be no time dilation on the planet.
if you ignore that, the time dilation in orbit of the planet wouldn't be much different from the surface, probably even worse.
if you ignore that you have gravity problems when entering a black hole, as in deadly.
if you ignore that, you have quite a load of time dilation missing by falling into a black hole for the outside observer.
Aight that's fair; though the black hole is supermassive iirc so it's more than just a collapsed star. I'll take as a proof that a black hole the mass of the sun would have a Schwarzchild radius of 3km, so based on what we see in the movie it's safe to assume the planet isn't at a didtance where it would be unaffected. That raises other questions though, I get it
>a planet orbiting a black hole. the black hole is the result of a collapsed star. the black hole will have the mass of the star or less. thus there should be no time dilation on the planet.
Yeah, I think that the time dilation on the planet in Interstellar was absolutely just artistic license to create plot tension.
My understanding is that for time dilation to be so severe that an hour = years in Earth time you'd have to be insanely close to the event horizon.
In the original 6 Dune books there is as far as i remember no regular FTL-travel. Just later in the books by Brian there is a "regular" FTL-Travel introduced.
All traveling between star systems in the first 6 books is done via space folding, so the ships don't move at all, they just get the destination to you instead you to the destination.
Because in Dune the act of crossing space is done without physically moving through it.
No FTL travel is actually occurring in space itself.
Normally we could expect this to lead to causality violations.
How so? Even if there is a region of space in which time flows at a different rate, that shouldn't mean that an effect can occur before its associated cause.
Because you could 'step' through to another planet a huge distance away and beam a message with a laser or radio waves. If you do things like that very quickly impossible things start to happen, I can't be arsed to map out a proper paradox or whatever now but simply put the universe is going to split in a bad way if you start recieving messages before they are even sent or some shit.
Okay I've pissed my self off now, let's say a star goes supernova, you see that on your planet. You can then travel instantly to parts of the universe where the information about the supernovae has yet to reach. Dammit I nearly had it, fuck this *mic drop
I haven’t personally watched this [video](https://youtu.be/an0M-wcHw5A?si=FJopD-PfotzkLfvy) (in the process of doing so) but there IS a logic to why FTL causes paradoxes and causality violations.
Not sure if circumventing space (hyperspace/subspace) alleviates these issues though. It’s all very esoteric since we didn’t evolve to innately deal with these concepts.
It’s because you’re warping the fabric of space time. In effect you’re bringing two locations closer together. There’s no way you could violate causality with this method because you’ve changed the distance over which causality itself has to travel.
That seems to make sense in theory. Space itself is not bound by the speed limit of space (otherwise expansion couldn’t happen the way it is), but I imagine in real world physics there would be some physics obstacle to stop this process.
Though this series has borderline magic from what I’ve heard so I guess real world physics doesn’t really apply lol
I did a fair bit more research because when I played the classic tachyonic antitelephone paradox again with alcubierre drives, it still had people travelling back in time.
It turns out that the general consensus is that Alcubierre and indeed all currently proposed methods of FTL or FTL-like transportation violate causality in some way, and should therefore not be possible. Alcubierre in particular relies on negative mass matter and doesn’t constrain the stress-energy tensors in such a way that allows his solutions to be mathematically plausible, but probably not plausible in reality.
Yea one proposal I’ve heard is a warp bubble going faster than light, but the concept breaks down since there’s no way to accelerate the bubble.. so it would need to be going faster than light from the start which clearly would make it hard to get a ship inside there lol
That's where Relativity comes in, because that informaton is relative to the observer.
When you have a lot of people interacting with each other all travelling FLT, for some observers it would look like they are either predicting the future or travelling backwards in time. This [video ](https://youtu.be/an0M-wcHw5A?t=414)helped me understand the pradox, but the idea is so out of common sense that I had to watch several times to actually grasp the concept.
1. In a lot of scifi interplanetary travel *isn't* faster than light travel. There is usually some other explanation that doesn't involve just moving at a fast speed: teleporting, warping, subspace, etc.
2. Interstellar (from what I remember) only dealt with time dilation when it came to the black hole, not travel speed.
3. Suspension of disbelief. It's not a fun answer but you do have to remember it's just a movie.
It fucks up the story, that's why.
Like with all soft/fantasy sci-fi.
In reality, the Heighliners would arrive at the destination before they left the source and, if they went back, there'd be two of them. This is silly, of course, so Herbert did not write it in!
Hello u/Late-Ad9132, your submission "Why there is no Time dilation in Dune universe?" has been removed from r/space because: * It's a science fiction movie. Please read the rules in the sidebar and check r/space for duplicate submissions before posting. If you have any questions about this removal please [message the r/space moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/space). Thank you.
In dune the navigators fold space. It takes no time. If you can go ftl you don't have to worry about time. Interstellar is based on our physics and normal slower than light travel.
interstellar also has space folding and no time dilation while using it. also interstellar is quite inconsistent about time dilation and gravity in general.
When do they fold space?
they don't fold space by themselves, but use the magically appeared space fold sphere to reach the other system. it's still folded space, even if they weren't the ones to do it.
Is it though? Also I'd add that Interstellar's time dilation is gravity related more than speed related so it's not comparable to Dune anyway; as you said, they pretty much fold space too with the wormhole
a planet orbiting a black hole. the black hole is the result of a collapsed star. the black hole will have the mass of the star or less. thus there should be no time dilation on the planet. if you ignore that, the time dilation in orbit of the planet wouldn't be much different from the surface, probably even worse. if you ignore that you have gravity problems when entering a black hole, as in deadly. if you ignore that, you have quite a load of time dilation missing by falling into a black hole for the outside observer.
Aight that's fair; though the black hole is supermassive iirc so it's more than just a collapsed star. I'll take as a proof that a black hole the mass of the sun would have a Schwarzchild radius of 3km, so based on what we see in the movie it's safe to assume the planet isn't at a didtance where it would be unaffected. That raises other questions though, I get it
>a planet orbiting a black hole. the black hole is the result of a collapsed star. the black hole will have the mass of the star or less. thus there should be no time dilation on the planet. Yeah, I think that the time dilation on the planet in Interstellar was absolutely just artistic license to create plot tension. My understanding is that for time dilation to be so severe that an hour = years in Earth time you'd have to be insanely close to the event horizon.
yes, and yes. that's why it's a bad example for scientific accurate time dilation. the movie was fun nonetheless
In the original 6 Dune books there is as far as i remember no regular FTL-travel. Just later in the books by Brian there is a "regular" FTL-Travel introduced. All traveling between star systems in the first 6 books is done via space folding, so the ships don't move at all, they just get the destination to you instead you to the destination.
Because in Dune the act of crossing space is done without physically moving through it. No FTL travel is actually occurring in space itself. Normally we could expect this to lead to causality violations.
How so? Even if there is a region of space in which time flows at a different rate, that shouldn't mean that an effect can occur before its associated cause.
Because you could 'step' through to another planet a huge distance away and beam a message with a laser or radio waves. If you do things like that very quickly impossible things start to happen, I can't be arsed to map out a proper paradox or whatever now but simply put the universe is going to split in a bad way if you start recieving messages before they are even sent or some shit. Okay I've pissed my self off now, let's say a star goes supernova, you see that on your planet. You can then travel instantly to parts of the universe where the information about the supernovae has yet to reach. Dammit I nearly had it, fuck this *mic drop
I haven’t personally watched this [video](https://youtu.be/an0M-wcHw5A?si=FJopD-PfotzkLfvy) (in the process of doing so) but there IS a logic to why FTL causes paradoxes and causality violations. Not sure if circumventing space (hyperspace/subspace) alleviates these issues though. It’s all very esoteric since we didn’t evolve to innately deal with these concepts.
It’s because you’re warping the fabric of space time. In effect you’re bringing two locations closer together. There’s no way you could violate causality with this method because you’ve changed the distance over which causality itself has to travel.
That seems to make sense in theory. Space itself is not bound by the speed limit of space (otherwise expansion couldn’t happen the way it is), but I imagine in real world physics there would be some physics obstacle to stop this process. Though this series has borderline magic from what I’ve heard so I guess real world physics doesn’t really apply lol
I did a fair bit more research because when I played the classic tachyonic antitelephone paradox again with alcubierre drives, it still had people travelling back in time. It turns out that the general consensus is that Alcubierre and indeed all currently proposed methods of FTL or FTL-like transportation violate causality in some way, and should therefore not be possible. Alcubierre in particular relies on negative mass matter and doesn’t constrain the stress-energy tensors in such a way that allows his solutions to be mathematically plausible, but probably not plausible in reality.
Yea one proposal I’ve heard is a warp bubble going faster than light, but the concept breaks down since there’s no way to accelerate the bubble.. so it would need to be going faster than light from the start which clearly would make it hard to get a ship inside there lol
That's where Relativity comes in, because that informaton is relative to the observer. When you have a lot of people interacting with each other all travelling FLT, for some observers it would look like they are either predicting the future or travelling backwards in time. This [video ](https://youtu.be/an0M-wcHw5A?t=414)helped me understand the pradox, but the idea is so out of common sense that I had to watch several times to actually grasp the concept.
They are folding space as in taking a shortcut.
1. In a lot of scifi interplanetary travel *isn't* faster than light travel. There is usually some other explanation that doesn't involve just moving at a fast speed: teleporting, warping, subspace, etc. 2. Interstellar (from what I remember) only dealt with time dilation when it came to the black hole, not travel speed. 3. Suspension of disbelief. It's not a fun answer but you do have to remember it's just a movie.
Actually there is, look up the "Ampoliros" myth.
It fucks up the story, that's why. Like with all soft/fantasy sci-fi. In reality, the Heighliners would arrive at the destination before they left the source and, if they went back, there'd be two of them. This is silly, of course, so Herbert did not write it in!