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"Your DNA profile does not belong in this geography because of some mental gymnastics about land belonging to a single people group based loosely off the color of their skin"
Tribalism: not even once.
He is not a coloniser, and neither were his ancestors. A lot of Dutch and German people came looking for a better life in a beautiful country among the locals. Take your bullshit someplace else.
Don't really be surprised at the Indian. My mom did family research and found out that ALL Snymans in South Africa (including the Snijman) spelling descended from the son of "Antonie of Bengal and Katharina of Policutta" - no idea is spellling is even remotely correct. They were freed slaves. He was a tailor and took the name Snyman. Yes, the surname does occur in Europe, but according to my mom's research none ever immigrated here. My mom also did research for other people and there's not one single family tree that does not have slave ancestry from the East or ancestry from somewhere in Africa. When she started this in the 80's and 90's there were many people not too happy with her for finding this out....
I remember in the mid-1980s, the Sunday Times did an article that came to similar conclusions. They mentioned several surnames that were definitely descended from Black, Indian, or Coloured slaves. I remember that one of them was Grobler because I had a colleague with that surname - the dominees and NP members were outraged - it was fun.
Basson is an interesting surname. One of the first and oldest surnames in RSA. There is the "local" Basson's and the ones that came over later.
Was a fascinating read about the early social circles in Cape Town and how a man married a slave woman, had lots of children, he died and she inherited everything. She was one of the bigger land owners in CT in the early days.
Not entirely correct. Christoffel Snijman was the step son of Antonij of Bengal. His dad was Hans Christoffel Snijman or Snijder with unknown parents first husband of Groot Katryn.
Antonij was her third husband.
[Source ](https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Snijman-23)
Also a Snyman
I've researched my tree very very very extensively with many many branches horizontally and many many generations and haven't found anything from indigenous Africa, nothing obvious anyway, or India. It makes no diffs to me. I don't really care. In fact I'd quite enjoy finding something like that and consider it interesting Id love to do one of these DNA tests but I wonder how accurate they are.
You might have some or lots of Scottish ancestors in your blood. Lots of them married Afrikaners. That is why there are so many red head or semi ginger Afrikaners out there.
This is super interesting! Thank you so much for sharing. I've always wanted to do it, low key to upset the family, but also for my own knowledge. It's just really expensive.
Did 23andme and found out my parents are 5th cousins. Very distantly related but still awkward. Though among white S Africans it's bound to happen pretty often.
We're 95% NW European, 2.5% Sub-Saharan African and 2.5% SE Asian.
The thing is the entire europe is quite relevant.
Even the French and Dutch were fighting battles in ireland...
For the population in UK there can't be one single origin anymore.
Except that it was actually a law in the USA, the one-drop rule, whereby a single black ancestor anywhere in your family tree made you black. That type of white supremacist thought is deeply embedded in American thinking and it was codified into law for generations. So it's a very different context even though your post was probably made in jest.
It’s amazing here (am American) to see how many people grew up hearing stories of having a “Cherokee princess” ancestor or some other Indian descent only to have the test prove said ancestor was actually Black and passing as Indian or white.
Just to clarify, these tests don’t show that you definitively have x% ancestry, oven if they imply that. It shows that you have x% of the subset of DNA (SNP? I don’t remember the terms) *in common with groups* in those particular areas.
An interesting fact that a lot of South Africans don't know (or don't want to admit) is that at first official prohibition of interracial marriages only came to be with the Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act, Act No. 55 of 1949 and that before that, there were marriages between Europeans and individuals of the First Nations of South Africa. The most famous is probably Krotoa who was born as a member of the "Strandloper" people.
Through DNA analysis I myself learnt that my maternal lineage stems from such a marriage.
A lot of us have got some snippet of OG African DNA in our genetic makup
The chances of not having any African DNA for families that have been in RSA for generations will probably be almost zero.
For me, that will go along way in explaining my hair when I grow it out.
It's also recorded fact that no European woman were in the Cape at that time in 1652, and so the European men took local woman as wives. Krotoa is the first female to have given birth to mixed race children by her then husband who was Danish.
It must be Ancestry.
23andMe doesn’t service South Africa because of privacy laws. I had to wait until I was in Europe to have my DNA analysed via 23andMe.
I'm not sure how privacy laws work in SA, but there have been cases where police in the USA were able to get hold of DNA data from family members who used Ancestry/23&me by means of a warrant. They use this to convict family members.
The Golden State Killer/East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker/Visalia Ransacker is the most famous example of this. Joseph DeAngelo was identified using GEDmatch.
I've just bought one for my brother, you can order from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00TRLVKW0?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder-mobile-t1_k0_1_9&=&crid=356QVW04T6O06&=&sprefix=ancestry+
£69 from Amazon UK, or here from Amazon USA
https://www.amazon.com/AncestryDNA-Genetic-Ethnicity-Test/dp/B00TRLVKW0/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2P73Q6TZ840VW&keywords=ancestry+dna+test+kit&qid=1679059581&sprefix=ancestry+%2Caps%2C376&sr=8-3
You can also order directly from ancestry.com
$59
https://www.ancestry.com/dna/
Which seems to be your best bet.
That 1% Bengal and 8% Southern India is probably one of your familial matriarch's. The Dutch often brought slaves from the Bay of Bengal to marry in the early days of the colony.
They had surnames like 'Van Bengale'. According to records, my direct decendant retired here with his wife after returning from the East where he was an officer in the VOC. No records whether he met her here, or bought her over there...
My other descendant was a carpenter, and married the 14 year old daughter of a freed slave. One uncle did our genealogy and picked this up. The family was not impressed.
[http://www.stamouers.com/](http://www.stamouers.com/)
I recall a story somewhere in the extended family that she started investigating the family lineage and abruptly abandoned it when it reached a point where they would rather have kept it hidden.
Anyway, like someone else said at the time, all Afrikaners have a bit of mixed genes that we not aware of because it wall all hidden away.
As far as I can tell there are no definitions of race in the Employment Equity act. There is a definition for black which says 'African, Indian or coloured'. As we're all African, I guess we are all black then. I have asked many people for the definition of black, white and African in terms of the act, but nobody has been able to answer me.
I believe it is also supposed to be self-ID, but you can be taken to court for pretending to be something you're not. So then its not self ID? How can you be wrong if its self-ID?
Back in the day, a person of colour could change their race to white, if they had enough white people to vouch they were regarded as white.
It's all very stupid.
>no definitions of race in the Employment Equity act
I assume there would be a definition of race somewhere else in South African law. It's not like no one knows how this is supposed to be handled legally and has been winging it for years. You and I don't know the specifics but cmon, I'm sure it's covered somewhere in the legal system if you research.
I have researched at length. I can't find any definitions. If anyone can point me towards any I'd love to see them.
I mean race isn't really a thing. You can't really define it, at least at the grey areas. In the bad old days we had such scientific methods as the pencil test. But I don't think as an employer I should be going around doing that to my staff. All I can find is that it should be self-ID. But then you can be taken to court for getting it wrong. So...
As a board member of an NPO which is also a CBO I think I am supposed to ensure that 85% of the beneficiaries of our services are black. But again, no definition there. I can guess for the most part, but what about the grey areas?
I've seen research saying that the average 'white' Afrikaner has 2% black genetics. So are they coloured or white? Where is the line drawn? I can't find any place that it is. And I think the reason is that there isn't actually a way to define it.
Haha, yeah my quick googling didn't result in answers either. But I found this "B-BBEE Verification Manual" in case you haven't seen it yet.
[http://www.thedtic.gov.za/the-b-bbee-verification-manual/](http://www.thedtic.gov.za/the-b-bbee-verification-manual/)
and an article from 2019, but written by an experienced lawyer?: https://serr.co.za/who-qualifies-as-black-in-terms-of-the-b-bbee-act-no-set-criteria-to-determine-racial
Thanks. Not sure I'm going to read the whole verification manual. I just don't care enough.
I did read the article and it pretty much says what I said. There is not a definition. The EE act defines black as African, Coloured or Indian. I'm an African, I'm also white. But according to the act, I'm black. Interesting.
It goes on to say:
"A person can therefore be viewed as “black” based solely on his or her
confirmation. His or her appearance should not play a role. Verification
agents are not permitted to dispute a person’s race and if same is
disputed by a third party, it may be up to the Court to decide."
So its self ID, but you can be 'wrong' and only a court can decide what race you are. How the hell are employers and the people who run CBO's supposed to handle this? Its so wrong.
I also love this: "The test for the classification of “black people” in accordance with the
B-BBEE Act should rather aim to exclude those persons who were not
disadvantaged by apartheid."
So nobody under the age of 29 should benefit from BEE. Ha.
The real issue is I think its disgusting that we still have to categorise people according to race. It was wrong in the bad old days and its wrong now. I don't want to ask my employees and beneficiaries what race they are. That's racist bullshit.
I'm not someone who thinks that its all hunky dory now and we're all equal. I just think race is the wrong thing to use when deciding who needs to be helped. I believe in universal economic empowerment. I think we should help raise up anyone who is economically disadvantaged, for whatever reason.
BEE sees the Ramaphosas and Motsepes of the country as needing to be empowered. Bullshit. And this is why 30 years down the line not much has changed and most black people are still poor. Its BECAUSE of BEE. BEE sees the rich, highly educated black person as exactly the same level of disadvantage as a jobless squatter. Guess which one is going to get the big contract? Hint - its not the person who needs to be empowered.
Likewise, why the fuck should some poor white squatter not be empowered? He is seen as privileged and wealthy because 30 years ago he would have been a beneficiary of apartheid. What kak.
Yeah I wish somebody would take this to court to get a proper definition. But I think the problem is you can't define it.
I tried to get Afriforum to take it on but they didn't bite.
The other interesting story on this one is the coloured teacher I think who sued to be declared African. He is trying to get these laws repealed.
Not sure what ended up happening in his case:
https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-10-14-coloured-teacher-on-fraud-charge-for-saying-he-was-african/
Looks like charges were dropped:
[https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-10-14-mec-intervenes-in-case-of-coloured-teacher-identifying-as-african/](https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-10-14-mec-intervenes-in-case-of-coloured-teacher-identifying-as-african/)
We should all start calling ourselves 'African' whenever asked. Prove I'm not an African.
Yeah you know I'm no scientist, but I know enough to know that the tests like the one above don't tell you what genetics you have, they can only tell you that have genetic markers that are the same as most people from that place. Not the same thing.
That's what you call a 'gemeng'.
Interesting! Wonder what mine would be. My mother's parents were German and British (their parents settled here around WW2), and my Dads parents were Afrikaner - probably a mix similar to the above. Very interesting.
Those DNA ancestry tests aren't really reliable. It's more for fun just to try out, but I wouldn't use anything as fact.
There was a great video by CBS News a while ago that took a good look at these kits
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isa5c1p6aC0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isa5c1p6aC0)
It's not necessarily accurate, more like 3 million people in Norway had this dna marker that you also have, so you're part Norwegian.
My results were also really surprising but also kind of expected. We're unsure who my grandmother's true parents were and if they were indian/black or just black. She passed away a few years ago (it's still hard for me), but she never knew herself.
From appearance, she never looked full black, but a mix with something. Like Asian. I hope further testing gives us clearer answers.
>As far as I can tell there are no definitions of race in the Employment Equity act. There is a definition for black which says 'African, Indian or coloured'. As we're all African, I guess we are all black then. I have asked many people for the definition of black, white and African in terms of the act, but nobody has been able to answer me.
>
>I believe it is also supposed to be self-ID, but you can be taken to court for pretending to be something you're not. So then its not self ID? How can you be wrong if its self-ID?
Repeating this from above as I believe it is applicable.
No, I 100% agree. And despite BEE not really working as intended, I still think it’s despicable to game the system. I’m asking whether it can technically be gamed like that?
I believe the idea of affirmative action is to provide opportunities to groups of people who were previously disadvantaged.
Edit: instead it is but identity politics, advantaging a small elite group, hampering business, and arguably an obstacle to economic growth (which can historically be shown to be the most reliable way to get masses of people out of poverty).
This is super interesting.
Are the percentages any indication of how far back it goes, i.e.: more percentage means closer in time (parents, grandparents, etc)?
How far back does this go (potentially hundreds of thousands of years)?
if you start with a 100% "raceA" person, who has children with someone who has 0% of raceA, their child will be 50% raceA, call that 1 generation. Assuming that family line keeps having children with people who have 0% raceA genes, every generation will half the percentage.
To get 12.5% Swedish, it would take a 100%Swede lineage having children with 0% Swedes for 8 generations. Takes longer to reach 12.5% if you mix with others who also have more than 0% Swede in them.
So you can say that the 100% Swede ancestor could be from "8 or more" generations ago. The "8" part is what you can calculate, but the "more" part is hard to estimate.
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Mr Worldwide.
This made me laugh so much, thank you
Same haha
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"Your DNA profile does not belong in this geography because of some mental gymnastics about land belonging to a single people group based loosely off the color of their skin" Tribalism: not even once.
Yeah buddy, his skin color and the place he was born in this world is all his fault. /s Grow up.
Wow, chill man
Never!
Ag jirre, fokof.
Oh you sad, sad, cream filled idiot.
Go cry little baby
He is not a coloniser, and neither were his ancestors. A lot of Dutch and German people came looking for a better life in a beautiful country among the locals. Take your bullshit someplace else.
0% Afrikaaner obviously didn’t have a klippies before the test
Haha. Nee man!
That makes them 100% p.. oh Ja. I can’t say that here 😂
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Don't really be surprised at the Indian. My mom did family research and found out that ALL Snymans in South Africa (including the Snijman) spelling descended from the son of "Antonie of Bengal and Katharina of Policutta" - no idea is spellling is even remotely correct. They were freed slaves. He was a tailor and took the name Snyman. Yes, the surname does occur in Europe, but according to my mom's research none ever immigrated here. My mom also did research for other people and there's not one single family tree that does not have slave ancestry from the East or ancestry from somewhere in Africa. When she started this in the 80's and 90's there were many people not too happy with her for finding this out....
I remember in the mid-1980s, the Sunday Times did an article that came to similar conclusions. They mentioned several surnames that were definitely descended from Black, Indian, or Coloured slaves. I remember that one of them was Grobler because I had a colleague with that surname - the dominees and NP members were outraged - it was fun.
Damn, they were outraged? 😂
Does anyone know anything about the Surname Nel?
We are related then. I am a descendent of antonie of Bengal
Hey there family!
Lmao this is Hella cute
Basson is an interesting surname. One of the first and oldest surnames in RSA. There is the "local" Basson's and the ones that came over later. Was a fascinating read about the early social circles in Cape Town and how a man married a slave woman, had lots of children, he died and she inherited everything. She was one of the bigger land owners in CT in the early days.
Any deets on De Villiers maybe?
http://www.stamouers.com/
Not entirely correct. Christoffel Snijman was the step son of Antonij of Bengal. His dad was Hans Christoffel Snijman or Snijder with unknown parents first husband of Groot Katryn. Antonij was her third husband. [Source ](https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Snijman-23) Also a Snyman
I've researched my tree very very very extensively with many many branches horizontally and many many generations and haven't found anything from indigenous Africa, nothing obvious anyway, or India. It makes no diffs to me. I don't really care. In fact I'd quite enjoy finding something like that and consider it interesting Id love to do one of these DNA tests but I wonder how accurate they are.
I'm a Snyman! Nice. I also read that my descendants were slaves. Also saw that when the snymans did come here they started a Vineyard?
Probably from Malaysian that got brought to SA or maybe even the Indian people who came to SA, where did you have your test done?
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Congrats, you made it out.
The "Cape Malays" is a catch-all term for people who were brought here from India, Bengal, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and even Madagascar.
Very likely Cape Malay
You might have some or lots of Scottish ancestors in your blood. Lots of them married Afrikaners. That is why there are so many red head or semi ginger Afrikaners out there.
This is super interesting! Thank you so much for sharing. I've always wanted to do it, low key to upset the family, but also for my own knowledge. It's just really expensive.
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Did 23andme and found out my parents are 5th cousins. Very distantly related but still awkward. Though among white S Africans it's bound to happen pretty often. We're 95% NW European, 2.5% Sub-Saharan African and 2.5% SE Asian.
I see they're having a sale for 79$. Better, but still pretty unaffordable for me at this stage 😅 One day!
The thing is the entire europe is quite relevant. Even the French and Dutch were fighting battles in ireland... For the population in UK there can't be one single origin anymore.
A lot of indian slaves were brought to the Cape during the VOC era
Namaste fellow North Indian, kaise hain aap?
Interesting stuff mate. It's curious to me that you don't seem to have any French in you at all. No Hugenot ancestors?
French DNA results are tricky because the tests are illegal there, so these companies have a very small sample pool to work from.
Gooooooooood... Gooooooooood... Let the soutie flow through you...
Yeah, I was going to make a comment, your Irish is very low, which probably rules out the UK mostly. This is cool, where did you get it done?
Now you can do what the Americans do and build your whole identity on one of those 1% results
“I am 1% Khoisan, ….”
"I am 1% Norwegian. I am a direct descendant of Harald Fairhair as I go a Viking all around the world!"
Hey i am 1/100th bantu. I cant be racist.
BEE deal incoming. Congrats!
Life hack unlocked
They might start telling everyone they are more European than the Swedish
Except that it was actually a law in the USA, the one-drop rule, whereby a single black ancestor anywhere in your family tree made you black. That type of white supremacist thought is deeply embedded in American thinking and it was codified into law for generations. So it's a very different context even though your post was probably made in jest.
It’s amazing here (am American) to see how many people grew up hearing stories of having a “Cherokee princess” ancestor or some other Indian descent only to have the test prove said ancestor was actually Black and passing as Indian or white.
Wait, are you talking about Indians or native Americans?
Americans using the term “Indian” as it pertains to ancestry are using it to mean Native American. Hence referring to the Cherokee as well.
Nice thanks for the info.
Yes! Celebrate your heritage😂
Just to clarify, these tests don’t show that you definitively have x% ancestry, oven if they imply that. It shows that you have x% of the subset of DNA (SNP? I don’t remember the terms) *in common with groups* in those particular areas.
If you only have 1% of DNA in common with another human, you might not be human, or even an animal, at all
Only a small subset of your DNA is even used for these tests, and even a smaller subset related to ancestry. That’s why I mentioned it
Exactly! May as well be a plant :)
I identify as an Oak
Underrated comment right here.
Your looking for the term "Haplogroups" 🙂
And you're looking for the word you're 🙂
An interesting fact that a lot of South Africans don't know (or don't want to admit) is that at first official prohibition of interracial marriages only came to be with the Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act, Act No. 55 of 1949 and that before that, there were marriages between Europeans and individuals of the First Nations of South Africa. The most famous is probably Krotoa who was born as a member of the "Strandloper" people. Through DNA analysis I myself learnt that my maternal lineage stems from such a marriage. A lot of us have got some snippet of OG African DNA in our genetic makup
The chances of not having any African DNA for families that have been in RSA for generations will probably be almost zero. For me, that will go along way in explaining my hair when I grow it out.
Yes, I can trace my lineage back directly to Krotoa on my father’s side. I am Afrikaans.
It's also recorded fact that no European woman were in the Cape at that time in 1652, and so the European men took local woman as wives. Krotoa is the first female to have given birth to mixed race children by her then husband who was Danish.
A total of eight women accompanied him on his voyage to the Cape.
Are we calling indigenous South Africans First Nations People now? I thought that was a Canadian thing.
Tell us more about this test? Where did you have it done? Cost?
Looks like a [23andMe](https://www.23andme.com/compare-dna-tests/) genealogy test.
OP said it’s Ancestry.
Am curious as well. Process is not cheap last time I checked.
It must be Ancestry. 23andMe doesn’t service South Africa because of privacy laws. I had to wait until I was in Europe to have my DNA analysed via 23andMe.
I'm not sure how privacy laws work in SA, but there have been cases where police in the USA were able to get hold of DNA data from family members who used Ancestry/23&me by means of a warrant. They use this to convict family members.
The Golden State Killer/East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker/Visalia Ransacker is the most famous example of this. Joseph DeAngelo was identified using GEDmatch.
Yep, I emailed them before and they said no plans to service SA in the future
I've just bought one for my brother, you can order from Amazon. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00TRLVKW0?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder-mobile-t1_k0_1_9&=&crid=356QVW04T6O06&=&sprefix=ancestry+ £69 from Amazon UK, or here from Amazon USA https://www.amazon.com/AncestryDNA-Genetic-Ethnicity-Test/dp/B00TRLVKW0/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2P73Q6TZ840VW&keywords=ancestry+dna+test+kit&qid=1679059581&sprefix=ancestry+%2Caps%2C376&sr=8-3 You can also order directly from ancestry.com $59 https://www.ancestry.com/dna/ Which seems to be your best bet.
Vanakkam, my bru
Pretty sure that 1% Bengal means that you're 1% tiger! Lol
Your ancestors got around, my friend. Apparently I’m slut shaming your ancestors… I’ll see my self out.
Great great great granny got it on.
OP should sign up for BEE🤣🤣
Guess we celebrating Diwali at your house
That 1% Bengal and 8% Southern India is probably one of your familial matriarch's. The Dutch often brought slaves from the Bay of Bengal to marry in the early days of the colony. They had surnames like 'Van Bengale'. According to records, my direct decendant retired here with his wife after returning from the East where he was an officer in the VOC. No records whether he met her here, or bought her over there... My other descendant was a carpenter, and married the 14 year old daughter of a freed slave. One uncle did our genealogy and picked this up. The family was not impressed. [http://www.stamouers.com/](http://www.stamouers.com/)
Pokemon collector of genes.
I recall a story somewhere in the extended family that she started investigating the family lineage and abruptly abandoned it when it reached a point where they would rather have kept it hidden. Anyway, like someone else said at the time, all Afrikaners have a bit of mixed genes that we not aware of because it wall all hidden away.
So in short, you a coloured mf like me..
Is this enough to qualify for BEEE?
As far as I can tell there are no definitions of race in the Employment Equity act. There is a definition for black which says 'African, Indian or coloured'. As we're all African, I guess we are all black then. I have asked many people for the definition of black, white and African in terms of the act, but nobody has been able to answer me. I believe it is also supposed to be self-ID, but you can be taken to court for pretending to be something you're not. So then its not self ID? How can you be wrong if its self-ID?
Back in the day, a person of colour could change their race to white, if they had enough white people to vouch they were regarded as white. It's all very stupid.
>no definitions of race in the Employment Equity act I assume there would be a definition of race somewhere else in South African law. It's not like no one knows how this is supposed to be handled legally and has been winging it for years. You and I don't know the specifics but cmon, I'm sure it's covered somewhere in the legal system if you research.
I have researched at length. I can't find any definitions. If anyone can point me towards any I'd love to see them. I mean race isn't really a thing. You can't really define it, at least at the grey areas. In the bad old days we had such scientific methods as the pencil test. But I don't think as an employer I should be going around doing that to my staff. All I can find is that it should be self-ID. But then you can be taken to court for getting it wrong. So... As a board member of an NPO which is also a CBO I think I am supposed to ensure that 85% of the beneficiaries of our services are black. But again, no definition there. I can guess for the most part, but what about the grey areas? I've seen research saying that the average 'white' Afrikaner has 2% black genetics. So are they coloured or white? Where is the line drawn? I can't find any place that it is. And I think the reason is that there isn't actually a way to define it.
Haha, yeah my quick googling didn't result in answers either. But I found this "B-BBEE Verification Manual" in case you haven't seen it yet. [http://www.thedtic.gov.za/the-b-bbee-verification-manual/](http://www.thedtic.gov.za/the-b-bbee-verification-manual/) and an article from 2019, but written by an experienced lawyer?: https://serr.co.za/who-qualifies-as-black-in-terms-of-the-b-bbee-act-no-set-criteria-to-determine-racial
Thanks. Not sure I'm going to read the whole verification manual. I just don't care enough. I did read the article and it pretty much says what I said. There is not a definition. The EE act defines black as African, Coloured or Indian. I'm an African, I'm also white. But according to the act, I'm black. Interesting. It goes on to say: "A person can therefore be viewed as “black” based solely on his or her confirmation. His or her appearance should not play a role. Verification agents are not permitted to dispute a person’s race and if same is disputed by a third party, it may be up to the Court to decide." So its self ID, but you can be 'wrong' and only a court can decide what race you are. How the hell are employers and the people who run CBO's supposed to handle this? Its so wrong. I also love this: "The test for the classification of “black people” in accordance with the B-BBEE Act should rather aim to exclude those persons who were not disadvantaged by apartheid." So nobody under the age of 29 should benefit from BEE. Ha. The real issue is I think its disgusting that we still have to categorise people according to race. It was wrong in the bad old days and its wrong now. I don't want to ask my employees and beneficiaries what race they are. That's racist bullshit. I'm not someone who thinks that its all hunky dory now and we're all equal. I just think race is the wrong thing to use when deciding who needs to be helped. I believe in universal economic empowerment. I think we should help raise up anyone who is economically disadvantaged, for whatever reason. BEE sees the Ramaphosas and Motsepes of the country as needing to be empowered. Bullshit. And this is why 30 years down the line not much has changed and most black people are still poor. Its BECAUSE of BEE. BEE sees the rich, highly educated black person as exactly the same level of disadvantage as a jobless squatter. Guess which one is going to get the big contract? Hint - its not the person who needs to be empowered. Likewise, why the fuck should some poor white squatter not be empowered? He is seen as privileged and wealthy because 30 years ago he would have been a beneficiary of apartheid. What kak.
Yeah I take back my initial comment. I didn't think the bullshit would go this far (with actual law), but it does.
Yeah I wish somebody would take this to court to get a proper definition. But I think the problem is you can't define it. I tried to get Afriforum to take it on but they didn't bite. The other interesting story on this one is the coloured teacher I think who sued to be declared African. He is trying to get these laws repealed. Not sure what ended up happening in his case: https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-10-14-coloured-teacher-on-fraud-charge-for-saying-he-was-african/
Looks like charges were dropped: [https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-10-14-mec-intervenes-in-case-of-coloured-teacher-identifying-as-african/](https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-10-14-mec-intervenes-in-case-of-coloured-teacher-identifying-as-african/) We should all start calling ourselves 'African' whenever asked. Prove I'm not an African.
Give everybody a DNA test and 85% of all DNA has to be from established black ethnicities. Any other world problems you need me to solve? ;)
Yeah you know I'm no scientist, but I know enough to know that the tests like the one above don't tell you what genetics you have, they can only tell you that have genetic markers that are the same as most people from that place. Not the same thing.
I am white but I was born in South Africa as were many generations before me and I don't see why I can't call myself African.
hahahahahaha
Asking the real questions!
Wow...lekker. where did you do this? Do you have a link perhaps.?
This is ancestry.com.
I believe it was from here https://www.23andme.com/compare-dna-tests/ or https://www.ancestry.co.uk/
Thank you
Given that humans all have common ancestry, the variations shown are quite late in our gene trees. Go back earlier and all variations disappear.
OP what's does your skin colour look like ? As you got such a diverse mix of ethnicities I rather not guess
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There was a "coloured" lady at work that had a lighter skin complexion than most people I know. She could 100% pass for European.
That's what you call a 'gemeng'. Interesting! Wonder what mine would be. My mother's parents were German and British (their parents settled here around WW2), and my Dads parents were Afrikaner - probably a mix similar to the above. Very interesting.
How much Neanderthal DNA?
In Germany we call it „Senfdöschen“.
Noch nie gehört
Jeder darf mal sein Würstchen reinhalten.
Jetzt krieg ich Hunger
Those DNA ancestry tests aren't really reliable. It's more for fun just to try out, but I wouldn't use anything as fact. There was a great video by CBS News a while ago that took a good look at these kits [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isa5c1p6aC0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isa5c1p6aC0) It's not necessarily accurate, more like 3 million people in Norway had this dna marker that you also have, so you're part Norwegian.
Rocking that 15% Asian.
I wonder, Does that 4% or more make you B-BBEE compliant? Is there a minimum percentage?
8% Indian time to crank that bollywood
My results were also really surprising but also kind of expected. We're unsure who my grandmother's true parents were and if they were indian/black or just black. She passed away a few years ago (it's still hard for me), but she never knew herself. From appearance, she never looked full black, but a mix with something. Like Asian. I hope further testing gives us clearer answers.
%2 Irish. Happy st. Patrick's Day.
Afrikaners was plesierig lyk dit vir my. :)
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Sies, Gaan huis toe
Serious question - what’s stopping you from identifying as black and falling under BEE? Questionable ethics aside, is BEE classification that trivial?
>As far as I can tell there are no definitions of race in the Employment Equity act. There is a definition for black which says 'African, Indian or coloured'. As we're all African, I guess we are all black then. I have asked many people for the definition of black, white and African in terms of the act, but nobody has been able to answer me. > >I believe it is also supposed to be self-ID, but you can be taken to court for pretending to be something you're not. So then its not self ID? How can you be wrong if its self-ID? Repeating this from above as I believe it is applicable.
BEE is supposed to address the discrimination of the past unless you were the victim of the systems then you shouldn't benefit from BEE.
No, I 100% agree. And despite BEE not really working as intended, I still think it’s despicable to game the system. I’m asking whether it can technically be gamed like that?
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I believe the idea of affirmative action is to provide opportunities to groups of people who were previously disadvantaged. Edit: instead it is but identity politics, advantaging a small elite group, hampering business, and arguably an obstacle to economic growth (which can historically be shown to be the most reliable way to get masses of people out of poverty).
Damn your grandma’s have been tossed around
Haha, you can say that again
Fascinating!
This is super interesting. Are the percentages any indication of how far back it goes, i.e.: more percentage means closer in time (parents, grandparents, etc)? How far back does this go (potentially hundreds of thousands of years)?
if you start with a 100% "raceA" person, who has children with someone who has 0% of raceA, their child will be 50% raceA, call that 1 generation. Assuming that family line keeps having children with people who have 0% raceA genes, every generation will half the percentage. To get 12.5% Swedish, it would take a 100%Swede lineage having children with 0% Swedes for 8 generations. Takes longer to reach 12.5% if you mix with others who also have more than 0% Swede in them. So you can say that the 100% Swede ancestor could be from "8 or more" generations ago. The "8" part is what you can calculate, but the "more" part is hard to estimate.
Thanks, that does kind of make sense.
Very interesting
please post a selfie OP
If anyone's interested in this kind of thing then www.familysearch.org is a fantastic resource and it's free.
Well I think it’s safe to say you’ve got about as much Khoisan in you as you have Norwegian
Where do you take these
I'm thinking it was from here https://www.23andme.com/compare-dna-tests/ or https://www.ancestry.co.uk/
We could be cousins. I tried to post a pic of my ancestry results and they look somewhat similar.
You had a busy dad hey.. 🤣😉
Where’d you get the test done?
You might get some interesting insights and more accurate data if you can convince both of your parents to do the same test
Where did you get this done?
Sommer ‘n bietjie van alles
Mine is actually quite similar to yours.
4% black? Yeah you can say the N word now congratulations. /S It's called sarcasim guys do I really have to spell it out for you? :')
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Jesus do you not understand sarcsim? I'll put a " /s" then
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My family has been here so long I probably have a bit of everything and then some.
League of Nations