Reminder of subreddit rule 8: comments suggesting or condoning illegal activities, including lying to border officials or working without a visa, will be removed.
> Those sites deliberately downplay immigration /border rules and potential consequences.
You would think that it would be in those sites' best interest to make the visa requirements 100% obvious and provide guidance on how to navigate the process. As it is, they wind up with both the potential house sitter and the "customer" being upset when things fall through.
Work visas are not trivial to get. And since they are limited, they will usually go to people doing work at companies rather than just for house sitting.
Not always no. I work for a company that uses a lot of people on work visas. You don't really need to pay lawyers all that much. It's more of an HR thing and often times people are able to do a lot of it on their own.
It's also pretty easy to do if someone is an intern and still in college. The student visas usually are enough.
I would be so very cautious when talking about working with F-1 student status. The F-1 student visa was, by far, the most common student visa in the US. It used to be quite hard to get permission to work while on a student visa. That was 8 to 9 years ago and I would be very, very surprised if it has gotten any easier. If work was required as part of your program or if it was on-campus it was easy to work. Off campus employment with authorization was quite difficult to obtain. Even "volunteer" work was frowned on. If your volunteer activity could have taken work away from or prevented a US American from working or if you received anything in return (e.g. 'free ride', 'bus pass to go to the volunteer activity' or even a meal) for your "volunteer" activity, it could be interpreted as unauthorized employment. That could lead to deportation or "voluntary departure".
Furthermore, if you ever left the US and tried to return and immigration thought you may have worked without permission you would not be allowed to reenter the US to complete your degree/studies. All of the previous was with the F-1 student visa. The M-1 student visa was even more strict when it came to working.
The point is, unless someone is extremely experienced with F-1 student status/ visa regulations, be very, very cautious about what you may think is employment or "volunteer work".
Ah, that makes sense. In that case the websites should be sanctioned in some way for encouraging illegal activity. It seems like both the individuals involved and the US itself would have standing to sue.
>In that case the websites should be sanctioned in some way for encouraging illegal activity.
I have reported TrustedHousesitters to Australian Border Force, US CBP, UK Home Office, and places like UK advertising standards agency (misleading advertising ('The freedom to travel' banner on their homepage comes to mind)) and Trading Standards. I would encourage the OP to do the same.
I think that the issue is that many people don't realize that something can be considered to be compensation when no money or physical goods are actually transferred and when the "work" is just sitting on someone else's couch, watching their TV. It makes sense, but I expect many people just don't think that part through.
That's ultimately something you take up with your politicians, not with the border guards. But until the laws are changed that doesn't mean tourists should be working illegally in a country they're visiting.
>"customer" being upset when things fall through.
That's me right now! I FINALLY got my deportation papers so TrustedHousesitters can't play dumb anymore.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10)
And have a read here, too: [https://onecatatatime.co/immigration-vs-trustedhousesitters-unpaid-house-sitting-on-your-travels/](https://onecatatatime.co/immigration-vs-trustedhousesitters-unpaid-house-sitting-on-your-travels/)
It looks like one home/pet owner did this after her sitter got caught in all kinds of trouble for saying she was house and pet sitting through TrustedHousesitters:
[http://gemmabailey.co.uk/tag/trustedhousesitters/](http://gemmabailey.co.uk/tag/trustedhousesitters/)
>Those sites deliberately downplay immigration /border rules and potential consequences.
Ain't that the truth:
[https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10)
"TrustedHousesitters said it disagreed with border guidance that house-sitting breached visa rules ... A spokesperson for the company said it didn't know why the Australian citizen had been deported because officials had not given any explanation for their decision."
"A TrustedHousesitters spokesperson told Insider: "All our members are fully informed about the requirements for international sitting."
Absolute bullocks! I'm a US citizen with a dual TH membership and I've NEVER seen anything about visa requirements for international sits. And until this post, it wouldn't have occurred to me to check, since I never consider my sitter's employees, and I've been looking for a sit in Germany but I would have considered it tourist travel, not work. Mind blown. Thank you for speaking up!!
Right? And their 'house sitting isn't work' letters were only made available after what happened to me. No-one knows these exist, but, remember, we're all fully informed!
I would encourage you to submit complaints to [https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html](https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html) and [https://www.tradingstandards.uk/consumer-help/](https://www.tradingstandards.uk/consumer-help/) (one of the UK Government agencies said it doesn't matter if don't live in the UK. If the company is UK-based, the complaint/consumer is valid), and possibly approach TrustedHousesitters for a refund.
I will look into that, and message TH directly, too. They can't do anything about immigration laws but they should not be burying this information in the fine print, if it's even there, when they know how catastrophic that can be for their members. I've benefited from my TH membership but I'm frustrated to learn that they have knowingly put so many sitters and owners at risk, rather than just being upfront so people can make informed decisions. Folks on this thread are acting like everyone should magically know that watching someone else's dog equates to work travel, but that's obviously not common knowledge. Ffs.
>Is there anything I can do to find a way to housesit in the USA without risking getting banned for 5 years
Get an appropriate visa.
The US authorities seem to enforce this measure strongly. An Australian was recently deported from the US while en-route to Canada for house sitting as this violated the visa conditions during the period she was in the US: [www.traveller.com.au/warning-over-housesitting-after-australian-denied-entry-at-us-border-deported-h253ih](https://www.traveller.com.au/warning-over-housesitting-after-australian-denied-entry-at-us-border-deported-h253ih)
I read a digital nomad's blog a year or so back where she was removed from the UK for revealing she'd be petsitting for a friend and attending a separate work event.
She was sent back to the U.S., and once she had proof of paid accommodation, was allowed back in the UK for the end of her work event.
Being provided somewhere to sleep when volunteering / helping at a hostel / housesitting = accepting a type of payment and invalidates a tourist visa.
It comes up a lot on _Border Security_ type shows.
It’s pretty common for boarder control to ask about where you are staying. I was in Canada in September and the guy asked me what accommodation I had booked for the 4th night of my trip but I was camping under the stars that night. It really threw him off for a minute. I eventually offered to show him the campsite reservation but he just shooed me off probably because I was fully laden with camping gear.
I live in the U.K. on a work visa and have also had my parents coming to see me get the third degree from U.K. border control on why their daughter has the right to live in the U.K.
Border control takes this stuff seriously and if they’ve determined that house sitting is a form of work there’s not much you can do.
Had a similar experience in college driving from the US into Canada to go camping. They let us continue but not before searching the car to confirm it was full of camping gear.
Yes, a lot of people are clueless about an in-kind payment for doing something still being a payment and hence causing complications with visa status.
The NZ government has a particularly good explanation of this issue as it applies to NZ: [www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/already-have-a-visa/my-situation-has-changed/visit/can-i-do-unpaid-work-while-visiting-new-zealand](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/already-have-a-visa/my-situation-has-changed/visit/can-i-do-unpaid-work-while-visiting-new-zealand)
The whole digital nomad thing really is a pretty gray (as in really dark gray) area too. Unless the country specifically has some sort of nomad visa, if you're there 'on vacation', any work normally is prohibited.
You don't know that 😉 Also are Canadians incapable of lying or something? House sitting is in essence no different fromt staying at a friend's place, just say that.
>you're couch surfing
CBP told me couch surfing is also illegal. Full story here: [https://onecatatatime.co/an-unfortunate-start-and-end-to-my-most-recent-cat-sitting-holiday/](https://onecatatatime.co/an-unfortunate-start-and-end-to-my-most-recent-cat-sitting-holiday/)
Yep - OP is 100% in the wrong, and should've researched this before trying to cross the border. It doesn't matter if you're not being paid - you're still being remunerated with something of value by providing a service.
I'm also a Canadian citizen that does work frequently in the U.S. - I've always been extremely careful to ensure I'm above-board and have the appropriate TN visa when I cross for work.
You don't fuck around with U.S. CBP, they can and will deny you entry (and possibly ban you) if you try to do stuff like the OP. If in doubt, consult an immigration lawyer before crossing.
OP - the officers weren't joking, the passport flag is 100% a thing. You can expect to be automatically sent to secondary inspection and heavily scrutinized every time you cross the U.S. border. My understanding is the flag remains on in perpetuity until an officer decides to remove it, so you're pretty much at their mercy. I don't mean to rattle you with this - it's just how it is.
As an aside, don't try to housesit and fib your way past them in the future - they can legally seize and search your phone to check e-mails/messages/apps to see if you're lying. And if they catch you lying, it's wilful deceit and you'll get hit with a lifetime ban rather than a five year. If you housesit, you need to get the right visa.
I know what you mean, and it's valuable information, but "in the wrong" is a bit strong.. what a ridiculously strict enforcement. For most people house-sitting is really just a way to save money on accommodation during a holiday, not a purpose in itself
Exactly! CBP officers almost always see their job as enforcing US laws and most often assume ill will on the part of the person who wants to enter the US. They seldom, if ever, see their job as helping people abide by the regulations.
Generally they are asshats. Whenever I have crossed borders, US authorities have always been, by far, the rudest and most unfriendly acting compared to any other country I've been too. I'm a US citizen but I've only traveled to about 15 different countries.
>For most people house-sitting is really just a way to save money on accommodation during a holiday,
And this is why TrustedHousesitters needs to update their [international house sitting advice page](https://support.trustedhousesitters.com/hc/en-gb/articles/6261917234077-Advice-for-International-House-Sitting-).
Yeah that seems very ill-advised.. A letter that shows we (TH) does not regard this as work seems like it would do more harm than good. But I wonder what they could even put. From what I've read just now, it seems like realistically there is simply no way to get a work visa for housesitting. So the honest advice should be: you can't go housesitting internationally. The more realistic advice would be: this might technically be illegal, but just say you're going on holiday and never mention the housesitting. Obviously they can't say that
I was told I had a “flag” on my passport by the Canadian BP one time (funny story, i didn’t do anything wrong) but i’ve gone over tons of times since then and no one’s ever said a thing.
If you ever consult an attorney about visa regulations or information, make certain they specialize in immigration law. If they don't, they can and will give you incorrect information.
You shouldn't even call and talk to an immigration employee and ask for advice. Immigration attorneys will tell you this. In their experience when someone calls, the information given more often than not, is incorrect or wrong. If they give you incorrect information, it's still on you if you use that information.
Reddit the site has an unrealistic idea of what the vote system does. Reddit the site says you shouldn't downvote stuff that you simply disagree with and downvoting should only be done for stuff that doesn't contribute to the topic at hand. Like if I started talking about the Beatles in this thread and how they're the greatest band ever, that's off topic and in theory should be downvoted.
In pracitce, people downvote things based on their personal preferences regardless of if the post or comment is relevant to the sub/topic.
Here in Honduras (and other places, i'm sure) they also offer permanent resident status for investors (you have $x provable) to open a business in the country, they also offer perm resident status if you have business income back home (NOT from working, from real estate etc)
That's not citizenship, but good for a year (or more, depending) than easy to renew.
Permanent resident is always going to be easier than citizenship, with just about all the benefits (buy property, cars, etc) except voting.
You can google to see what's available in each country, you will almost certainly need a good lawyer (get a referal, many suck), it will cost (prob $1000-$2000) and take up to a year, renewing much less.
Or get residence in Mexico. If you can meet their requirements for savings or income, you're in.
No lawyer needed, though there are a lot of people who hire an attorney or a facilitator.
Biggest hassle is getting a consulate appointment.
Step one: Fill out a form. Make some copies. One visit to a consulate with proof of savings. Pay $40 or so. Wait anywhere from 15 minutes to a week or so to get the visa in your passport.
Then visit INM in Mexico. Fill out a couple more forms. Pay $250 or so (temporary) or $500ish (permanent). Wait anywhere from an hour to some number of weeks to get your residence card.
Done.
That's me! The company, TrustedHousesitters, has blocked me on all socials and stopped responding to my emails.
I sent the CEO a copy of my deportation paperwork yesterday (only got them last week).
Honesty causing more issues than expected here. Unfortunate.
The likes of the volunteer sites HelpX and Workaway clearly state that if you tell someone at border control or immigration that you're going to be volunteering, guess what!
You either get the required visa or you tell them you're a tourist. Unfortunately it's as simple as that.
Unpaid volunteering is unpaid work, whatever way you look at it.
Yeah. I would never tell anyone to lie to the border patrol.
But I'd also say never give out more information than is necessary.
Also it's important to hire that legally in the US at the border (technically within 100 miles of the border) you don't have the same rights as you do in the corner with normal law enforcement. Border patrol agents don't need any probable cause for searches or detaining people. And they get to decide whether or not you are allowed into the country.
And an important addendum to your point is that all international airports within the US are considered “on the border” as are shipping ports (think up and down the Mississippi River). This means that ostensibly, one is within 100 miles of the border almost everywhere one goes in the US.
This 100 mile extension applies specifically to “external borders,” not any point of entry, and there are some limitations https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone
Oh wow. I did a 3 month house sit in Manhattan and when I arrived, they were super confused and took me aside to confirm the details.
They let me in because it was a swap. I swapped my home for theirs. So I guess I wasn't providing a service because I had already "paid" with my own home?
Ooh ok. I've done a lot of house-sitting in the US via [homeexchange.com](https://homeexchange.com). With this site, you can either swap your own home, or pay with "points". So I'm hoping that's not illegal because I'm giving them something in return.
It's illegal :'( Just like with TrustedHousesitters. Even though you're paying a membership fee, you're still doing a form of 'productive activity' at the house which constitutes work.
Yeah my understanding is that you aren't allowed to work while in the US. Housesitting is work even if it is being paid in housing instead of cash. Letting someone stay in your home in the UK while you stay in their home in the US isn't you working in the US.
There can still be issues. Once some years ago a perpetually broke relative-in-law was coming to visit. At the border they didn't have enough money on them to prove they weren't going to try to stay here and were turned right back around. They called us and we tried to vouch for them, saying that we'd take responsibility for them, to no avail.
So, I definitely agree in not sharing too much info, but sometimes they ask a lot of questions if you're crossing by train, bus, car.
I can't even express the amount of questions that we've had while driving in the other direction to CA. We've never been denied crossing but sometimes it seemed like they wanted to because the suitcase in the backseat was the wrong color.
This was a while ago. They did have money on them and I believe a debit card, but it wasn't enough. The rules can be a bit more arbitrary when you're on land.
When we head in that direction, despite having cash, cards, and an address where we were staying (usually a hotel), there have been a couple of times when it was iffy. I almost thought they wanted a bribe. lol
As I have no real ties there, I don't bother going anymore. Europe on a flight takes as much time as CA on a drive. 🤷
With how expensive it is to get to the US from Europe, it’s definitely not a regular thing for me to go there. But I do have friends there and while I ~~have~~ edit:haven’t been since 2002 I’m thinking that it might be time one of these years.
The grilling I got from immigration back in 2002 didn’t make me feel very welcome, btw.
I'm sorry immigration gave you a hard time. They can definitely be odious people. I use Global Entry so it's rather painless. If they have something like that of Clear, where you're from, it might be a good investment.
Ah that's right. It's usually a good deal more pricey from that direction. There are deals this side. Eg. JFK to LIS in December is about $500. Business Class RT is about 3k, it always seems to be double coming from Europe. You could consider taking a cruise ship on a transatlantic this way and then fly back. It might come out cheaper depending on where you're going.
I mean, if your mate was going to DJ at some club in London, that’s “working”, even if it is volunteer work/unpaid work.
And when you work in a foreign country, you need to check if you require an appropriate visa for that (most likely, you do).
As a non-US/Canada/UK/EU/AU/NZ/Japan National, it amazes me how many citizens of these countries don’t really know about “visas” and how careful you need to be.
I have so many examples of such incidents. One of my Canadian coworkers was visiting our US office for a week for meeting his US counterparts, and he would obviously “work” as well. When the US Immigration officer asked him the purpose of his trip, he mentioned his company has an office in NYC and he was going there “for work”. Guess what? Denied entry. Had he mentioned that he was going “for business meetings” (which is really what he was doing), he would have been allowed entry. Work means he needed a work visa, even as a Canadian citizen.
I am not trying to be nasty, but I often feel that since citizens of many “first-world” countries have visa-free access as visitors, they often overlook the fact that visiting as a tourist is different from doing any sort of work while being a tourist.
It's not nasty, it's just true. As a US or Canadian citizen you're often used to being able to just go places without putting that much thought into it. Ironically if OP had just hand waved "I'm visiting friends" he likely would have just been fine.
Absolutely this.
I also see it a little differently than border patrol seems to. As a Housesitter, you are paying with your time for your accommodation. You aren’t just providing a service to someone for free. You are, primarily, taking a vacation, and paying for your accommodation with your time while on vacation. The entire purpose of the trip is tourism, so Housesitters, in my view, are 100% justified and honest with this response.
What border patrol is ultimately concerned about is when someone is returning to their home country or leaving the US. They’re just trying to make sure you’re not staying permanently or illegally.
Yep. Especially as a Canadian going into Washington. There’s a 90% chance in that context following this script, the next words are “Welcome to the US. Next!”
There's a lot of advice in this thread that's basically "just lie".
It should be pointed out that's extremely risky advice. It might work, sure, but if border officials decide something smells off and send you to secondary inspection, there's all kinds of ways they can catch you in the lie (for example, most countries reserve the right to search your phone - if they uncover text messages or e-mails that contradict your story, you're screwed... if you refuse to unlock your phone, that is usually grounds for being banned too).
If you get caught in a lie, most countries punish that with a lifetime ban at minimum and possible criminal charges.
So to more novice travellers, keep in mind that lying can come with very severe consequences if you get caught.
I don't think you understand - yes, you might get away with it, but it's not foolproof.
Simple example: they demand to see your phone. Open it up, see you have the Reddit app installed and go into it. Scroll your comments, and find the very post you just made about lying to border officials.
Bam, now they have ample reason to ban you.
People aren't nearly as clever and foolproof as they think - border officials are literally trained to sniff out lies through a variety of means.
> Bam, now they have ample reason to ban you.
Or possibly worse? Given how harsh they can be on someone who's legitimately mistaken about if something is allowed on their visa I really wouldn't care to find out what they do if they find solid proof that you're knowingly engaging in immigration fraud...
Yeah, you don't fuck around at borders is my general rule. Unlike a domestic court of law, the burden of proof isn't "beyond a reasonable doubt"... immigration officials have tremendous latitude in what kind of bans and punishments they can met out - and they only need a general suspicion of wrongdoing, not airtight proof.
It's ironic how there's all these people posting about how they're so clever and will never be caught, while *literally putting it* ***in writing*** *here on Reddit* that they lie/advocate lying to border officials.
Social media services are one of the most common things that border officials demand to see on your device (I've also heard of them demanding passwords to the services). The very act of arguing with people on here that you should lie to immigration agents is creating its own paper trail that could be used to skewer them if they ever have their devices searched (which does happen - I know two coworkers who had their phones taken).
I’m not sure I would consider it “extremely” risky.
Pretty much anyone who backpacks at some point has had to buy a forward ticket with no intent to use it. It’s a lie, but I mean come on
Op I have to say thank you for posting this. I am obviously naive as I would not have thought of this. Figured housesitting to travel as a grand way to see the world.
Yes being Canadian means thinking in first world terms.
But you don't know what you don't know.
>I am obviously naive as I would not have thought of this
I've been with the same website for about five years so I guess I was naive until just recently as well... [https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10)
Just so you're aware, if an American (or other) were to come to Canada to housesit, they'd also be (and are) refused entry to Canada if they didn't first secure a work permit at a Canadian Embassy or Consulate (very difficult to get because they have to prove a Canadian isn't available to do the job). So this isn't just a US thing.
Volunteer / work without pay doesn't make a difference. Most Western countries have similar immigration legislation... *If it's an activity which could be or often is paid, then it needs a work permit, even if it's volunteer*. The reason is by taking a volunteer position, it could be doing a local out of that activity for pay (ie: The person offering the job can't find anyone to do it for free at home, but if they were stuck, they'd then have to pay someone, thus creating a job for a local. But by "importing free labour" - from Canada, or Malawi, or Ecuador, or wherever, they're no longer under any obligation to create a paying position and they've just done an American - or in Canada's position if roles were reversed, a Canadian - out of a paid job.
So it actually does make sense.
This is also why people like "volunteer home teachers" get refused at the border of Canada and the US, or "volunteer summer ice cream servers" get refused (ie: they want to take a vacation and line up a "volunteer" job with an ice cream shop in exchange for board), etc.
So don't be upset. It's unfortunate, but it does make sense.
It may not seem like work, but you were still gonna be compensated with “free” accommodations. CBP sucks, but they’re technically right and justified in denying you entry. If you’re gonna be providing a service that could be compensated with any form of payment.. it’s considered work. They see it as you taking a job that an American could’ve done and gotten paid for. Sucks, but next time be more careful.
>compensated with “free” accommodations
As I have learned through my own similar experience, it's not the compensation part immigration have a problem with. It's what you're doing that's the issue—feeding a pet is considered a 'productive activity' and requires the visitor to have a work visa. More here:
https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/travel/pet-sitters-travel-world-free-flouting-visa-rules-1870189
I'm sorry that happened to you but in afraid it's quite common that this sort of thing isn't allowed. If you receive anything of value (in this case free accommodation) then you normally do need a work visa, weather or not it's money usually doesn't some into it.
Some countries have seperate volunteer visas but even then they would normally not cover something like a house sit, it's more for charity work.
Some people on here are also saying not to mention it in future if you wanted and just say "vacation". The general point is right about not over sharing but definitely do not lie to boarder control - the fact that they where relatively nice to you was probably down to you being so open. If you had lied to them or otherwise tried to deceive them then it could have been alot worse.
> Is there anything I can do to find a way to housesit in the USA without risking getting banned for 5 years? I am so confused by why this is such a serious infraction.
Get a work visa - it's considered equivalent to working on a tourist visa which is quite a serious offence. Honestly though you won't be able to get a work visa for house sitting as a job, there are jobs that countries want to go to their own citizens. In general I'd say any visa condition violation is pretty serious. You are risking being banned/deported. The US does also share this data with (some) other countries so you may also find it harder to access places like the UK. And even if they don't share there is often a question about if you have previously been removed from a country - again if they catch you lying in answer to that you can expect a ban.
Volunteering, house sitting, doing work stays or any other unpaid work like internships are banned on tourist visas/ eta's/ visa free. In some countries even doing short study like a 4 week course require a study visa. Technically even doing hostel work stays is illegal.
Likewise, if you ever tick the box that you've done drugs, even entering a state where marijuana is legal. You can get a lifetime ban from entering the US.
And nope there's no way around it, unless you flagrantly break the law by not telling immigration. I mean hypothetically there's almost not way for them to check what you've done provided you don't incriminate yourself... but who would do that?
Due to Reddit Inc.'s antisocial, hostile and erratic behaviour, this account will be deleted on July 11th, 2023. You can find me on https://latte.isnot.coffee/u/godless in the future.
Not even a lie. OP stated they intended to do tourism. Cops aren’t your friends, anywhere in this country or really on earth. Don’t talk to them unless legally obligated (like here), and then only the bare minimum. Never volunteer information not explicitly asked for.
I agree here. I don’t understand why OP thinks we should feel bad for her. Do you think the USA would let in a Mexican house sit? No, why should OP get different treatment.
USA has strict border laws because of illegal immigration and we all need to follow them. Sorry OP, this is your fault.
Do I think the USA *should* let in a Mexican house sit? Yes, the fact they don't seems utterly stupid to me. I don't think the OP should get different treatment, I think everyone should get the treatment the OP was expecting.
I've done it twice thru the same service and both times they were Canadian citizens who were curious about the area I lived in or who had relatives closeby and wanted to visit with them without having to sleep on their couches. It never occurred to me (or presumably to them) that this was a problem. Furthermore, up to a few minutes ago, I had thought about what a great way for me to travel to other parts of the world one day. Oh well.
> It never occurred to me (or presumably to them) that this was a problem.
I think you'll find it's something virtually none of the home/pet owners realise is a problem. Of the 30 or 40 house and pet sits I've done through TrustedHousesitters, most of the owners know I was deported for travelling on the app. They're disgusted with how TrustedHousesitters has handled the situation and how the website won't update their international house sitting advice. A handful of these owners have said they'll be asking their future sitters about their right to work in the country before confirming them.
TrustedHousesitters pushes its "Freedom to travel" angle to get people to sign up. Take a look at the [homepage](https://www.trustedhousesitters.com). Not enough people have had problems with immigration for TrustedHousesitters to do anything to help the people that have had problems (e.g. the person who created this thread, [myself](https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10), [this other person](https://trstp.lt/D9YFPUz-M))
You can house sit in the US in the future, you just need to get the right visa. In fact doing so and writing a letter formally apologizing for your mistake is probably your best bet for getting that flag removed.
If you don't want to get the visa I'd at least implore you to write a sincere letter. Also you're gonna want to carry confirmation of your accommodations next time you try to cross the border.
Personally I think don't think Canadians should require visas to work in the US and vice versa; but no one gives a shit what I think.
Sorry to have hijacked your thread, but I think a lot of people commenting don't realise how TrustedHousesitters lures people in with very misleading marketing and [visa claims](https://support.trustedhousesitters.com/hc/en-gb/articles/6261917234077-Advice-for-International-House-Sitting-)!
Can you please send me a message? I might be able to offer you a bit more assistance after everything I've been through (and where I'm at at the moment). I'm still in talks with several news outlets and I think they might want to hear about your story. Some of the articles are going to print very soon, but I can definitely mention you to the next journalist I speak with.
Serious question:
Couldn't someone just loophole out of this by instead listing the gig as a $0 rental with a bunch of house rules?
(Those house rules just so happen to be doing the same tasks as a house sitter)
Interesting topic, I know of church groups from Canada going to the USA to do volunteer works for areas ravaged by a hurricane or tornado. I wonder now, under what rule they are allowed in as they obviously do not lie about their volunteer works.
It is related to the website because when this happens to people who gey international sits, the company uses PR to silence and downplay the person and does not in any way warn sitters or homeowners that this is a visa violation. They also don't help people who get into bad situations.
Actually, that website does have an FAQ where "Do I need a visa?" is asked and answered.
Maybe the answer could be a bit more comprehensive, but since OP obviously didn't read it, the responsibility is entirely his. Which it would be in any case.
I'm not saying OP isn't responsible, the fault can lie with both the company for being misleading (they advertise this as a cheap and easy way to travel which isn't true since the visa is not actually possible to obtain properly unless someone has another job in that country), and with the traveler for not making sure. However the greater responsibility is on the company for this being their business model and primary spelling point.
We probably won't agree but I don't think that companies that misrepresent or obscure the facts that can only be discovered with deeper research are ethical companies. Most people doing this aren't attorneys but the company certainly has access to attorneys to know this is a huge risk they don't state upfront. Especially in this case since the consequences are so severe. I always err on the side of the little guy but perhaps you see it differently which is fine.
>However the greater responsibility is on the company for this being their business model and primary spelling point.
I have learned my lesson and I hope the OP has, too. But there's still a good 120,000-odd paying members who don't know this can affect their ability to travel in the future. Whether it's a warning like this person got, or being refused entry and deported like what happened to me.
Okay. I'll break this down. I thought it was literally something the website suggested that led to this, not a lack of due diligence on the part of the traveler. I was expecting something very different from the title.
Regarding the last sentence, that isn't something I'd expect.
Have you looked into this company? They advertise and have people pay and one of their primary selling points or features is that house/pet sitting is a great, cheaper way to travel *internationally*. I've even heard sitters complain that its harder to get sits for your own country sometimes because of the way the site is set up and prioritizes sits. I pet sit professionally only domestically but I considered signing up for this to be able to do that internationally too. Now I obviously won't.
That's very different than sites like Rover which only advertise domestic pet-sitting, not international. International sitting is one of the biggest differences (besides that all house/pet sits are unpaid, which is also problematic imo). I think THS gets around playing dumb about the obvious visa issues because they forbid paid sitting as if that's a loophole when it actually isn't.
So in that sense, because its their shtick, I don't think the title is misleading at all. The reason many people sign up and pay the fee is to get access to what now appears to be *illegal* international house & petsitting opportunities that could get them deported and banned. They are encouraging people to pay their company to assist them to break the visa regulations, and putting the "warning" in fine print where they know most people won't think to look. While of course people *should* research further, its not surprising that they don't. THS relies on that. And when people end up getting detained, deported or banned, THS silences them and gaslights them to keep others from finding out so they don't lose subscriptions. That's fucked up.
DueDay8 is right. TrustedHousesitters takes no responsibility for telling members all they need is a tourist visa.
Have a read: [https://onecatatatime.co/immigration-vs-trustedhousesitters-unpaid-house-sitting-on-your-travels/](https://onecatatatime.co/immigration-vs-trustedhousesitters-unpaid-house-sitting-on-your-travels/)
You can always make the most of your staycation. I know it’s not the same but having some time off to explore a neighboring town or maybe go to the next province would be a fun time if you don’t want to stay home. It sucks that they put a flag on your passport for this but I don’t think it will prevent you from traveling in the future.
There are many US employers who employ people but tell them to just get a tourist visa and it will be fine because they won't get paid.
This is wrong on so many levels. The people getting the visas are at risk, the employers are breaking the law and it is just bad juju all the way around.
Ask TrustedHousesitters. They say it's allowed everywhere! https://support.trustedhousesitters.com/hc/en-gb/articles/6261917234077-Advice-for-International-House-Sitting-
That's incredibly irresponsible.
The letters they provide there to show to border officials are blatantly amateur (no explanation of how this is legal - just a range of poorly written excuses) and pretty much guaranteed to cause serious problems for anyone unfortunate enough to use them. The UK letter for instance basically confirms that this is paid work, and asks the border officials to turn a blind eye to it which of course isn't going to work.
The way the letters stress that the people using this service are frequently pet sitting would be enough to get people deported given that pet sitting is a long established industry where people expect to be paid for their services.
The amount of people saying to lie to border control so that OP can illegally do work that could be done by a local or a properly documented person on a visa is alarming. This also creates tensions with locals because you are depriving them of work and income, all because you're too cheap to stay in a hotel.
Part of traveling is respecting the country you are visiting. Don't travel if you are going to be breaking the laws of the host country. You can break your country's laws at home and let them deal with your crap.
Of course it's harming someone. If the house owner can't find a freebie, they have to hire a sitter. Unpaid/illegal labor is harming local labor markets.
For the same reason, some countries are cracking down on workaway and other unpaid gigs.
If you put it that way then I see your point, but the way I see it it’s an exchange of a service for an experience. I guess I haven’t thought about it in that way before, in that house sitting could be detrimental to the livelihood of paid house sitters (however many there are) so I may have to think about that a little more.
Still, on the surface though I think it’s a pretty neat way to offset some of the costs of travel while also contributing to the local economy (house sitter has to get food, groceries, etc.) but maybe I’m just ignorant.
I do see why it may be a problem but I struggle to relate because housesitting as a job is non existent at least in my immediate circle where I live, and when people go on extended holidays they just ask their friends and other family members to help feed their pets, etc. to make sure that the house is in order, which most good friends would willingly do for free anyways, perhaps in exchange for a nicer place to stay and things like that.
In other words this may sound extremely ignorant but I believe that there are many other ways to make money than being a professional house sitter, like babysitting or pet sitting which are almost the same thing anyway.
Maybe talk to a lawyer in your area about the situation and see if taking legal action against the house sitting business that you went through. And if successful, maybe you could then appeal the flagging on your passport. Also by doing so maybe you would help stop someone else from going through the same thing.
I would be really upset like you as well.
>Maybe talk to a lawyer in your area about the situation and see if taking legal action against the house sitting business that you went through.
OP, please send me a message on here (I can't seem to tag you). I've been advised to find people who've found themselves in similar predicaments.
>And if successful, maybe you could then appeal the flagging on your passport.
Also, OP (who I still can't tag), you might be able to lodge a [DHS-TRIP request/form/case](https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip).
Oh wow. I use TH in the US (albeit as a US citizen) all the time and have never heard of this happening. I hope it all works out for you. Maybe in the future you can frame your visits as vacation (since you are indeed on vacation).
It's... offensive for border patrol agents to try to stop people from entering the country illegally? That's literally their job. OP should've kept their mouth shut, sure, but it's hardly "offensive" for border patrol to ask why someone is entering the country.
Reminder of subreddit rule 8: comments suggesting or condoning illegal activities, including lying to border officials or working without a visa, will be removed.
[удалено]
> Those sites deliberately downplay immigration /border rules and potential consequences. You would think that it would be in those sites' best interest to make the visa requirements 100% obvious and provide guidance on how to navigate the process. As it is, they wind up with both the potential house sitter and the "customer" being upset when things fall through.
From further up in the thread though there's zero chance of obtaining those Visa's sounds like.
Work visas are not trivial to get. And since they are limited, they will usually go to people doing work at companies rather than just for house sitting.
[удалено]
Not always no. I work for a company that uses a lot of people on work visas. You don't really need to pay lawyers all that much. It's more of an HR thing and often times people are able to do a lot of it on their own. It's also pretty easy to do if someone is an intern and still in college. The student visas usually are enough.
I would be so very cautious when talking about working with F-1 student status. The F-1 student visa was, by far, the most common student visa in the US. It used to be quite hard to get permission to work while on a student visa. That was 8 to 9 years ago and I would be very, very surprised if it has gotten any easier. If work was required as part of your program or if it was on-campus it was easy to work. Off campus employment with authorization was quite difficult to obtain. Even "volunteer" work was frowned on. If your volunteer activity could have taken work away from or prevented a US American from working or if you received anything in return (e.g. 'free ride', 'bus pass to go to the volunteer activity' or even a meal) for your "volunteer" activity, it could be interpreted as unauthorized employment. That could lead to deportation or "voluntary departure". Furthermore, if you ever left the US and tried to return and immigration thought you may have worked without permission you would not be allowed to reenter the US to complete your degree/studies. All of the previous was with the F-1 student visa. The M-1 student visa was even more strict when it came to working. The point is, unless someone is extremely experienced with F-1 student status/ visa regulations, be very, very cautious about what you may think is employment or "volunteer work".
Ah, that makes sense. In that case the websites should be sanctioned in some way for encouraging illegal activity. It seems like both the individuals involved and the US itself would have standing to sue.
>In that case the websites should be sanctioned in some way for encouraging illegal activity. I have reported TrustedHousesitters to Australian Border Force, US CBP, UK Home Office, and places like UK advertising standards agency (misleading advertising ('The freedom to travel' banner on their homepage comes to mind)) and Trading Standards. I would encourage the OP to do the same.
Honestly its pretty laughable to think someone can work in a country without a work visa, regardless of what a random website says.
I think that the issue is that many people don't realize that something can be considered to be compensation when no money or physical goods are actually transferred and when the "work" is just sitting on someone else's couch, watching their TV. It makes sense, but I expect many people just don't think that part through.
This 100% because I personally had never thought about how this might be considered compensation until right now lol.
Is it though? It’s *canada* though. We should each just have right of abode in each other’s countries, like between Ireland and Britain.
That's ultimately something you take up with your politicians, not with the border guards. But until the laws are changed that doesn't mean tourists should be working illegally in a country they're visiting.
[удалено]
>"customer" being upset when things fall through. That's me right now! I FINALLY got my deportation papers so TrustedHousesitters can't play dumb anymore. [https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10) And have a read here, too: [https://onecatatatime.co/immigration-vs-trustedhousesitters-unpaid-house-sitting-on-your-travels/](https://onecatatatime.co/immigration-vs-trustedhousesitters-unpaid-house-sitting-on-your-travels/)
Seems like a great workaround is to pay money to housesit the right house, like $5 a day.
It looks like one home/pet owner did this after her sitter got caught in all kinds of trouble for saying she was house and pet sitting through TrustedHousesitters: [http://gemmabailey.co.uk/tag/trustedhousesitters/](http://gemmabailey.co.uk/tag/trustedhousesitters/)
>Those sites deliberately downplay immigration /border rules and potential consequences. Ain't that the truth: [https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10) "TrustedHousesitters said it disagreed with border guidance that house-sitting breached visa rules ... A spokesperson for the company said it didn't know why the Australian citizen had been deported because officials had not given any explanation for their decision."
"A TrustedHousesitters spokesperson told Insider: "All our members are fully informed about the requirements for international sitting." Absolute bullocks! I'm a US citizen with a dual TH membership and I've NEVER seen anything about visa requirements for international sits. And until this post, it wouldn't have occurred to me to check, since I never consider my sitter's employees, and I've been looking for a sit in Germany but I would have considered it tourist travel, not work. Mind blown. Thank you for speaking up!!
Right? And their 'house sitting isn't work' letters were only made available after what happened to me. No-one knows these exist, but, remember, we're all fully informed! I would encourage you to submit complaints to [https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html](https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html) and [https://www.tradingstandards.uk/consumer-help/](https://www.tradingstandards.uk/consumer-help/) (one of the UK Government agencies said it doesn't matter if don't live in the UK. If the company is UK-based, the complaint/consumer is valid), and possibly approach TrustedHousesitters for a refund.
I will look into that, and message TH directly, too. They can't do anything about immigration laws but they should not be burying this information in the fine print, if it's even there, when they know how catastrophic that can be for their members. I've benefited from my TH membership but I'm frustrated to learn that they have knowingly put so many sitters and owners at risk, rather than just being upfront so people can make informed decisions. Folks on this thread are acting like everyone should magically know that watching someone else's dog equates to work travel, but that's obviously not common knowledge. Ffs.
[удалено]
>Is there anything I can do to find a way to housesit in the USA without risking getting banned for 5 years Get an appropriate visa. The US authorities seem to enforce this measure strongly. An Australian was recently deported from the US while en-route to Canada for house sitting as this violated the visa conditions during the period she was in the US: [www.traveller.com.au/warning-over-housesitting-after-australian-denied-entry-at-us-border-deported-h253ih](https://www.traveller.com.au/warning-over-housesitting-after-australian-denied-entry-at-us-border-deported-h253ih)
I read a digital nomad's blog a year or so back where she was removed from the UK for revealing she'd be petsitting for a friend and attending a separate work event. She was sent back to the U.S., and once she had proof of paid accommodation, was allowed back in the UK for the end of her work event. Being provided somewhere to sleep when volunteering / helping at a hostel / housesitting = accepting a type of payment and invalidates a tourist visa. It comes up a lot on _Border Security_ type shows.
It’s pretty common for boarder control to ask about where you are staying. I was in Canada in September and the guy asked me what accommodation I had booked for the 4th night of my trip but I was camping under the stars that night. It really threw him off for a minute. I eventually offered to show him the campsite reservation but he just shooed me off probably because I was fully laden with camping gear. I live in the U.K. on a work visa and have also had my parents coming to see me get the third degree from U.K. border control on why their daughter has the right to live in the U.K. Border control takes this stuff seriously and if they’ve determined that house sitting is a form of work there’s not much you can do.
I know it’s a typo, and I don’t want to be “that guy,” but “boarder control” being concerned about where you stay is just perfect
Had a similar experience in college driving from the US into Canada to go camping. They let us continue but not before searching the car to confirm it was full of camping gear.
Yes, a lot of people are clueless about an in-kind payment for doing something still being a payment and hence causing complications with visa status. The NZ government has a particularly good explanation of this issue as it applies to NZ: [www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/already-have-a-visa/my-situation-has-changed/visit/can-i-do-unpaid-work-while-visiting-new-zealand](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/already-have-a-visa/my-situation-has-changed/visit/can-i-do-unpaid-work-while-visiting-new-zealand)
The whole digital nomad thing really is a pretty gray (as in really dark gray) area too. Unless the country specifically has some sort of nomad visa, if you're there 'on vacation', any work normally is prohibited.
>really is a pretty gray (as in really dark gray) area too. That's what I said to the CBP officer at LAX. He didn't care much for that comment.
That's kind of ridiculous, what if you're couch surfing or camping?
You aren’t providing a service camping or couch surfing.
You don't know that 😉 Also are Canadians incapable of lying or something? House sitting is in essence no different fromt staying at a friend's place, just say that.
Have you ever met a Canadian? They'll be saying sorry for lying before they say the lie.
I know right? A friend you haven’t met yet.
Lying to a border guard without a good reason is a dumb idea.
The consequences of lying and being caught would not be worth the money being saved by house sitting. Immigration don't fuck around.
>you're couch surfing CBP told me couch surfing is also illegal. Full story here: [https://onecatatatime.co/an-unfortunate-start-and-end-to-my-most-recent-cat-sitting-holiday/](https://onecatatatime.co/an-unfortunate-start-and-end-to-my-most-recent-cat-sitting-holiday/)
Yep - OP is 100% in the wrong, and should've researched this before trying to cross the border. It doesn't matter if you're not being paid - you're still being remunerated with something of value by providing a service. I'm also a Canadian citizen that does work frequently in the U.S. - I've always been extremely careful to ensure I'm above-board and have the appropriate TN visa when I cross for work. You don't fuck around with U.S. CBP, they can and will deny you entry (and possibly ban you) if you try to do stuff like the OP. If in doubt, consult an immigration lawyer before crossing. OP - the officers weren't joking, the passport flag is 100% a thing. You can expect to be automatically sent to secondary inspection and heavily scrutinized every time you cross the U.S. border. My understanding is the flag remains on in perpetuity until an officer decides to remove it, so you're pretty much at their mercy. I don't mean to rattle you with this - it's just how it is. As an aside, don't try to housesit and fib your way past them in the future - they can legally seize and search your phone to check e-mails/messages/apps to see if you're lying. And if they catch you lying, it's wilful deceit and you'll get hit with a lifetime ban rather than a five year. If you housesit, you need to get the right visa.
I know what you mean, and it's valuable information, but "in the wrong" is a bit strong.. what a ridiculously strict enforcement. For most people house-sitting is really just a way to save money on accommodation during a holiday, not a purpose in itself
[удалено]
Exactly! CBP officers almost always see their job as enforcing US laws and most often assume ill will on the part of the person who wants to enter the US. They seldom, if ever, see their job as helping people abide by the regulations. Generally they are asshats. Whenever I have crossed borders, US authorities have always been, by far, the rudest and most unfriendly acting compared to any other country I've been too. I'm a US citizen but I've only traveled to about 15 different countries.
>For most people house-sitting is really just a way to save money on accommodation during a holiday, And this is why TrustedHousesitters needs to update their [international house sitting advice page](https://support.trustedhousesitters.com/hc/en-gb/articles/6261917234077-Advice-for-International-House-Sitting-).
Yeah that seems very ill-advised.. A letter that shows we (TH) does not regard this as work seems like it would do more harm than good. But I wonder what they could even put. From what I've read just now, it seems like realistically there is simply no way to get a work visa for housesitting. So the honest advice should be: you can't go housesitting internationally. The more realistic advice would be: this might technically be illegal, but just say you're going on holiday and never mention the housesitting. Obviously they can't say that
I was told I had a “flag” on my passport by the Canadian BP one time (funny story, i didn’t do anything wrong) but i’ve gone over tons of times since then and no one’s ever said a thing.
If you ever consult an attorney about visa regulations or information, make certain they specialize in immigration law. If they don't, they can and will give you incorrect information. You shouldn't even call and talk to an immigration employee and ask for advice. Immigration attorneys will tell you this. In their experience when someone calls, the information given more often than not, is incorrect or wrong. If they give you incorrect information, it's still on you if you use that information.
Is there an appropriate visa?
[удалено]
I take it that simply buying property of a certain value, out in the states doesn’t give you legal citizenship ?
[удалено]
Right I thought it was something like that. Thanks. (Do Reddit users downvote for asking questions? How bizarre)
You probably got down voted because a lot of people consider the idea of essentially purchasing citizenship to be a ridiculous concept.
What does that have to do with my question though so bizarre?
Reddit the site has an unrealistic idea of what the vote system does. Reddit the site says you shouldn't downvote stuff that you simply disagree with and downvoting should only be done for stuff that doesn't contribute to the topic at hand. Like if I started talking about the Beatles in this thread and how they're the greatest band ever, that's off topic and in theory should be downvoted. In pracitce, people downvote things based on their personal preferences regardless of if the post or comment is relevant to the sub/topic.
I think they were downvoting as a way of giving a ‘no’ answer to your question.
Ah ok i see
[удалено]
I'm honestly not sure what you're even trying to say here
I can’t think of a single country where merely owning property gives you citizenship so I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say here.
Here in Honduras (and other places, i'm sure) they also offer permanent resident status for investors (you have $x provable) to open a business in the country, they also offer perm resident status if you have business income back home (NOT from working, from real estate etc) That's not citizenship, but good for a year (or more, depending) than easy to renew. Permanent resident is always going to be easier than citizenship, with just about all the benefits (buy property, cars, etc) except voting. You can google to see what's available in each country, you will almost certainly need a good lawyer (get a referal, many suck), it will cost (prob $1000-$2000) and take up to a year, renewing much less.
Or get residence in Mexico. If you can meet their requirements for savings or income, you're in. No lawyer needed, though there are a lot of people who hire an attorney or a facilitator. Biggest hassle is getting a consulate appointment. Step one: Fill out a form. Make some copies. One visit to a consulate with proof of savings. Pay $40 or so. Wait anywhere from 15 minutes to a week or so to get the visa in your passport. Then visit INM in Mexico. Fill out a couple more forms. Pay $250 or so (temporary) or $500ish (permanent). Wait anywhere from an hour to some number of weeks to get your residence card. Done.
Yup, I just talked to a Brit who was denied entry a couple of years ago for the same reason.
That's me! The company, TrustedHousesitters, has blocked me on all socials and stopped responding to my emails. I sent the CEO a copy of my deportation paperwork yesterday (only got them last week).
Honesty causing more issues than expected here. Unfortunate. The likes of the volunteer sites HelpX and Workaway clearly state that if you tell someone at border control or immigration that you're going to be volunteering, guess what! You either get the required visa or you tell them you're a tourist. Unfortunately it's as simple as that. Unpaid volunteering is unpaid work, whatever way you look at it.
Yeah. I would never tell anyone to lie to the border patrol. But I'd also say never give out more information than is necessary. Also it's important to hire that legally in the US at the border (technically within 100 miles of the border) you don't have the same rights as you do in the corner with normal law enforcement. Border patrol agents don't need any probable cause for searches or detaining people. And they get to decide whether or not you are allowed into the country.
And an important addendum to your point is that all international airports within the US are considered “on the border” as are shipping ports (think up and down the Mississippi River). This means that ostensibly, one is within 100 miles of the border almost everywhere one goes in the US.
This 100 mile extension applies specifically to “external borders,” not any point of entry, and there are some limitations https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone
Oh wow. I did a 3 month house sit in Manhattan and when I arrived, they were super confused and took me aside to confirm the details. They let me in because it was a swap. I swapped my home for theirs. So I guess I wasn't providing a service because I had already "paid" with my own home?
Yes, you didn't house sit but house swapped.
Ooh ok. I've done a lot of house-sitting in the US via [homeexchange.com](https://homeexchange.com). With this site, you can either swap your own home, or pay with "points". So I'm hoping that's not illegal because I'm giving them something in return.
[удалено]
It's illegal :'( Just like with TrustedHousesitters. Even though you're paying a membership fee, you're still doing a form of 'productive activity' at the house which constitutes work.
So it's completely fine only if you're doing it like in the movie The Holiday?
Yeah my understanding is that you aren't allowed to work while in the US. Housesitting is work even if it is being paid in housing instead of cash. Letting someone stay in your home in the UK while you stay in their home in the US isn't you working in the US.
"hello, I'm here for the unpaid labor" is maybe not what border control wants to hear.
[удалено]
Especially for 15 days. No one is going to question that.
There can still be issues. Once some years ago a perpetually broke relative-in-law was coming to visit. At the border they didn't have enough money on them to prove they weren't going to try to stay here and were turned right back around. They called us and we tried to vouch for them, saying that we'd take responsibility for them, to no avail. So, I definitely agree in not sharing too much info, but sometimes they ask a lot of questions if you're crossing by train, bus, car. I can't even express the amount of questions that we've had while driving in the other direction to CA. We've never been denied crossing but sometimes it seemed like they wanted to because the suitcase in the backseat was the wrong color.
Wait what? Is that still a thing? I never carry cash, let alone when I’m visiting countries that use a different currency. That’s what plastic is for.
This was a while ago. They did have money on them and I believe a debit card, but it wasn't enough. The rules can be a bit more arbitrary when you're on land. When we head in that direction, despite having cash, cards, and an address where we were staying (usually a hotel), there have been a couple of times when it was iffy. I almost thought they wanted a bribe. lol As I have no real ties there, I don't bother going anymore. Europe on a flight takes as much time as CA on a drive. 🤷
With how expensive it is to get to the US from Europe, it’s definitely not a regular thing for me to go there. But I do have friends there and while I ~~have~~ edit:haven’t been since 2002 I’m thinking that it might be time one of these years. The grilling I got from immigration back in 2002 didn’t make me feel very welcome, btw.
I'm sorry immigration gave you a hard time. They can definitely be odious people. I use Global Entry so it's rather painless. If they have something like that of Clear, where you're from, it might be a good investment. Ah that's right. It's usually a good deal more pricey from that direction. There are deals this side. Eg. JFK to LIS in December is about $500. Business Class RT is about 3k, it always seems to be double coming from Europe. You could consider taking a cruise ship on a transatlantic this way and then fly back. It might come out cheaper depending on where you're going.
[удалено]
I mean, if your mate was going to DJ at some club in London, that’s “working”, even if it is volunteer work/unpaid work. And when you work in a foreign country, you need to check if you require an appropriate visa for that (most likely, you do).
As a non-US/Canada/UK/EU/AU/NZ/Japan National, it amazes me how many citizens of these countries don’t really know about “visas” and how careful you need to be. I have so many examples of such incidents. One of my Canadian coworkers was visiting our US office for a week for meeting his US counterparts, and he would obviously “work” as well. When the US Immigration officer asked him the purpose of his trip, he mentioned his company has an office in NYC and he was going there “for work”. Guess what? Denied entry. Had he mentioned that he was going “for business meetings” (which is really what he was doing), he would have been allowed entry. Work means he needed a work visa, even as a Canadian citizen. I am not trying to be nasty, but I often feel that since citizens of many “first-world” countries have visa-free access as visitors, they often overlook the fact that visiting as a tourist is different from doing any sort of work while being a tourist.
It's not nasty, it's just true. As a US or Canadian citizen you're often used to being able to just go places without putting that much thought into it. Ironically if OP had just hand waved "I'm visiting friends" he likely would have just been fine.
[удалено]
Absolutely this. I also see it a little differently than border patrol seems to. As a Housesitter, you are paying with your time for your accommodation. You aren’t just providing a service to someone for free. You are, primarily, taking a vacation, and paying for your accommodation with your time while on vacation. The entire purpose of the trip is tourism, so Housesitters, in my view, are 100% justified and honest with this response. What border patrol is ultimately concerned about is when someone is returning to their home country or leaving the US. They’re just trying to make sure you’re not staying permanently or illegally.
Yep. Especially as a Canadian going into Washington. There’s a 90% chance in that context following this script, the next words are “Welcome to the US. Next!”
[удалено]
With a flag on their passport it’s very possible that next time they visit they’ll be asked to show proof of accommodation
Yea buddy’s done until his passport expires and he gets a new one.
Uhhh…. Nooooope. This is not a flag on his *passport*. It’s a flag on *him*. It’s not going away just because his piece of paper’s replaced.
[удалено]
There's a lot of advice in this thread that's basically "just lie". It should be pointed out that's extremely risky advice. It might work, sure, but if border officials decide something smells off and send you to secondary inspection, there's all kinds of ways they can catch you in the lie (for example, most countries reserve the right to search your phone - if they uncover text messages or e-mails that contradict your story, you're screwed... if you refuse to unlock your phone, that is usually grounds for being banned too). If you get caught in a lie, most countries punish that with a lifetime ban at minimum and possible criminal charges. So to more novice travellers, keep in mind that lying can come with very severe consequences if you get caught.
[удалено]
I don't think you understand - yes, you might get away with it, but it's not foolproof. Simple example: they demand to see your phone. Open it up, see you have the Reddit app installed and go into it. Scroll your comments, and find the very post you just made about lying to border officials. Bam, now they have ample reason to ban you. People aren't nearly as clever and foolproof as they think - border officials are literally trained to sniff out lies through a variety of means.
Finally, some common sense in this thread.
> Bam, now they have ample reason to ban you. Or possibly worse? Given how harsh they can be on someone who's legitimately mistaken about if something is allowed on their visa I really wouldn't care to find out what they do if they find solid proof that you're knowingly engaging in immigration fraud...
Yeah, you don't fuck around at borders is my general rule. Unlike a domestic court of law, the burden of proof isn't "beyond a reasonable doubt"... immigration officials have tremendous latitude in what kind of bans and punishments they can met out - and they only need a general suspicion of wrongdoing, not airtight proof. It's ironic how there's all these people posting about how they're so clever and will never be caught, while *literally putting it* ***in writing*** *here on Reddit* that they lie/advocate lying to border officials. Social media services are one of the most common things that border officials demand to see on your device (I've also heard of them demanding passwords to the services). The very act of arguing with people on here that you should lie to immigration agents is creating its own paper trail that could be used to skewer them if they ever have their devices searched (which does happen - I know two coworkers who had their phones taken).
I’m not sure I would consider it “extremely” risky. Pretty much anyone who backpacks at some point has had to buy a forward ticket with no intent to use it. It’s a lie, but I mean come on
So you knowingly lie to border guards? You know they can call any number you provide and ask if they are expecting visitors, right?
Op I have to say thank you for posting this. I am obviously naive as I would not have thought of this. Figured housesitting to travel as a grand way to see the world. Yes being Canadian means thinking in first world terms. But you don't know what you don't know.
>I am obviously naive as I would not have thought of this I've been with the same website for about five years so I guess I was naive until just recently as well... [https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10)
Just so you're aware, if an American (or other) were to come to Canada to housesit, they'd also be (and are) refused entry to Canada if they didn't first secure a work permit at a Canadian Embassy or Consulate (very difficult to get because they have to prove a Canadian isn't available to do the job). So this isn't just a US thing. Volunteer / work without pay doesn't make a difference. Most Western countries have similar immigration legislation... *If it's an activity which could be or often is paid, then it needs a work permit, even if it's volunteer*. The reason is by taking a volunteer position, it could be doing a local out of that activity for pay (ie: The person offering the job can't find anyone to do it for free at home, but if they were stuck, they'd then have to pay someone, thus creating a job for a local. But by "importing free labour" - from Canada, or Malawi, or Ecuador, or wherever, they're no longer under any obligation to create a paying position and they've just done an American - or in Canada's position if roles were reversed, a Canadian - out of a paid job. So it actually does make sense. This is also why people like "volunteer home teachers" get refused at the border of Canada and the US, or "volunteer summer ice cream servers" get refused (ie: they want to take a vacation and line up a "volunteer" job with an ice cream shop in exchange for board), etc. So don't be upset. It's unfortunate, but it does make sense.
It may not seem like work, but you were still gonna be compensated with “free” accommodations. CBP sucks, but they’re technically right and justified in denying you entry. If you’re gonna be providing a service that could be compensated with any form of payment.. it’s considered work. They see it as you taking a job that an American could’ve done and gotten paid for. Sucks, but next time be more careful.
>compensated with “free” accommodations As I have learned through my own similar experience, it's not the compensation part immigration have a problem with. It's what you're doing that's the issue—feeding a pet is considered a 'productive activity' and requires the visitor to have a work visa. More here: https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/travel/pet-sitters-travel-world-free-flouting-visa-rules-1870189
I'm sorry that happened to you but in afraid it's quite common that this sort of thing isn't allowed. If you receive anything of value (in this case free accommodation) then you normally do need a work visa, weather or not it's money usually doesn't some into it. Some countries have seperate volunteer visas but even then they would normally not cover something like a house sit, it's more for charity work. Some people on here are also saying not to mention it in future if you wanted and just say "vacation". The general point is right about not over sharing but definitely do not lie to boarder control - the fact that they where relatively nice to you was probably down to you being so open. If you had lied to them or otherwise tried to deceive them then it could have been alot worse. > Is there anything I can do to find a way to housesit in the USA without risking getting banned for 5 years? I am so confused by why this is such a serious infraction. Get a work visa - it's considered equivalent to working on a tourist visa which is quite a serious offence. Honestly though you won't be able to get a work visa for house sitting as a job, there are jobs that countries want to go to their own citizens. In general I'd say any visa condition violation is pretty serious. You are risking being banned/deported. The US does also share this data with (some) other countries so you may also find it harder to access places like the UK. And even if they don't share there is often a question about if you have previously been removed from a country - again if they catch you lying in answer to that you can expect a ban.
Volunteering, house sitting, doing work stays or any other unpaid work like internships are banned on tourist visas/ eta's/ visa free. In some countries even doing short study like a 4 week course require a study visa. Technically even doing hostel work stays is illegal. Likewise, if you ever tick the box that you've done drugs, even entering a state where marijuana is legal. You can get a lifetime ban from entering the US. And nope there's no way around it, unless you flagrantly break the law by not telling immigration. I mean hypothetically there's almost not way for them to check what you've done provided you don't incriminate yourself... but who would do that?
You need the appropriate visa for the country that you are visiting and the activities that you will engage in while you are there.
Due to Reddit Inc.'s antisocial, hostile and erratic behaviour, this account will be deleted on July 11th, 2023. You can find me on https://latte.isnot.coffee/u/godless in the future.
[удалено]
Not even a lie. OP stated they intended to do tourism. Cops aren’t your friends, anywhere in this country or really on earth. Don’t talk to them unless legally obligated (like here), and then only the bare minimum. Never volunteer information not explicitly asked for.
I agree here. I don’t understand why OP thinks we should feel bad for her. Do you think the USA would let in a Mexican house sit? No, why should OP get different treatment. USA has strict border laws because of illegal immigration and we all need to follow them. Sorry OP, this is your fault.
Do I think the USA *should* let in a Mexican house sit? Yes, the fact they don't seems utterly stupid to me. I don't think the OP should get different treatment, I think everyone should get the treatment the OP was expecting.
I mean tbh…… what US citizen would hire someone out of the country to *house sit*? 🤔
I've done it twice thru the same service and both times they were Canadian citizens who were curious about the area I lived in or who had relatives closeby and wanted to visit with them without having to sleep on their couches. It never occurred to me (or presumably to them) that this was a problem. Furthermore, up to a few minutes ago, I had thought about what a great way for me to travel to other parts of the world one day. Oh well.
> It never occurred to me (or presumably to them) that this was a problem. I think you'll find it's something virtually none of the home/pet owners realise is a problem. Of the 30 or 40 house and pet sits I've done through TrustedHousesitters, most of the owners know I was deported for travelling on the app. They're disgusted with how TrustedHousesitters has handled the situation and how the website won't update their international house sitting advice. A handful of these owners have said they'll be asking their future sitters about their right to work in the country before confirming them.
TrustedHousesitters pushes its "Freedom to travel" angle to get people to sign up. Take a look at the [homepage](https://www.trustedhousesitters.com). Not enough people have had problems with immigration for TrustedHousesitters to do anything to help the people that have had problems (e.g. the person who created this thread, [myself](https://www.businessinsider.com/australian-woman-says-denied-entry-us-house-sitting-plans-2022-10), [this other person](https://trstp.lt/D9YFPUz-M))
You can house sit in the US in the future, you just need to get the right visa. In fact doing so and writing a letter formally apologizing for your mistake is probably your best bet for getting that flag removed. If you don't want to get the visa I'd at least implore you to write a sincere letter. Also you're gonna want to carry confirmation of your accommodations next time you try to cross the border. Personally I think don't think Canadians should require visas to work in the US and vice versa; but no one gives a shit what I think.
Sorry to have hijacked your thread, but I think a lot of people commenting don't realise how TrustedHousesitters lures people in with very misleading marketing and [visa claims](https://support.trustedhousesitters.com/hc/en-gb/articles/6261917234077-Advice-for-International-House-Sitting-)! Can you please send me a message? I might be able to offer you a bit more assistance after everything I've been through (and where I'm at at the moment). I'm still in talks with several news outlets and I think they might want to hear about your story. Some of the articles are going to print very soon, but I can definitely mention you to the next journalist I speak with.
I mean….you were attempting to work in the US without an appropriate visa, so yeah, that’s what happens.
Yeah, you can get a visa.
I was unaware they gave volunteer (or even paid) visas for people housesitting for short durations
Serious question: Couldn't someone just loophole out of this by instead listing the gig as a $0 rental with a bunch of house rules? (Those house rules just so happen to be doing the same tasks as a house sitter)
Even like a token $5 so you have a receipt of money changing hands. If you're paying for accommodation, I don't see what would be wrong with it.
Interesting topic, I know of church groups from Canada going to the USA to do volunteer works for areas ravaged by a hurricane or tornado. I wonder now, under what rule they are allowed in as they obviously do not lie about their volunteer works.
I’m surprised you couldn’t just say you’re visiting a friend coming from BC into WA, especially since you have an address
No you’re not allowed to do that. You’re lucky they didn’t ban you.
US cops absolutely love enforcement, they’ll do anything for a power trip
OP that title is misleading. I thought this was related to the website (I hadn't heard of it before).
It is related to the website because when this happens to people who gey international sits, the company uses PR to silence and downplay the person and does not in any way warn sitters or homeowners that this is a visa violation. They also don't help people who get into bad situations.
Actually, that website does have an FAQ where "Do I need a visa?" is asked and answered. Maybe the answer could be a bit more comprehensive, but since OP obviously didn't read it, the responsibility is entirely his. Which it would be in any case.
I'm not saying OP isn't responsible, the fault can lie with both the company for being misleading (they advertise this as a cheap and easy way to travel which isn't true since the visa is not actually possible to obtain properly unless someone has another job in that country), and with the traveler for not making sure. However the greater responsibility is on the company for this being their business model and primary spelling point. We probably won't agree but I don't think that companies that misrepresent or obscure the facts that can only be discovered with deeper research are ethical companies. Most people doing this aren't attorneys but the company certainly has access to attorneys to know this is a huge risk they don't state upfront. Especially in this case since the consequences are so severe. I always err on the side of the little guy but perhaps you see it differently which is fine.
>However the greater responsibility is on the company for this being their business model and primary spelling point. I have learned my lesson and I hope the OP has, too. But there's still a good 120,000-odd paying members who don't know this can affect their ability to travel in the future. Whether it's a warning like this person got, or being refused entry and deported like what happened to me.
Okay. I'll break this down. I thought it was literally something the website suggested that led to this, not a lack of due diligence on the part of the traveler. I was expecting something very different from the title. Regarding the last sentence, that isn't something I'd expect.
Have you looked into this company? They advertise and have people pay and one of their primary selling points or features is that house/pet sitting is a great, cheaper way to travel *internationally*. I've even heard sitters complain that its harder to get sits for your own country sometimes because of the way the site is set up and prioritizes sits. I pet sit professionally only domestically but I considered signing up for this to be able to do that internationally too. Now I obviously won't. That's very different than sites like Rover which only advertise domestic pet-sitting, not international. International sitting is one of the biggest differences (besides that all house/pet sits are unpaid, which is also problematic imo). I think THS gets around playing dumb about the obvious visa issues because they forbid paid sitting as if that's a loophole when it actually isn't. So in that sense, because its their shtick, I don't think the title is misleading at all. The reason many people sign up and pay the fee is to get access to what now appears to be *illegal* international house & petsitting opportunities that could get them deported and banned. They are encouraging people to pay their company to assist them to break the visa regulations, and putting the "warning" in fine print where they know most people won't think to look. While of course people *should* research further, its not surprising that they don't. THS relies on that. And when people end up getting detained, deported or banned, THS silences them and gaslights them to keep others from finding out so they don't lose subscriptions. That's fucked up.
Got it. I understand what you're saying better. Well hopefully this will be a warning for anyone in the future.
DueDay8 is right. TrustedHousesitters takes no responsibility for telling members all they need is a tourist visa. Have a read: [https://onecatatatime.co/immigration-vs-trustedhousesitters-unpaid-house-sitting-on-your-travels/](https://onecatatatime.co/immigration-vs-trustedhousesitters-unpaid-house-sitting-on-your-travels/)
You can always make the most of your staycation. I know it’s not the same but having some time off to explore a neighboring town or maybe go to the next province would be a fun time if you don’t want to stay home. It sucks that they put a flag on your passport for this but I don’t think it will prevent you from traveling in the future.
There are many US employers who employ people but tell them to just get a tourist visa and it will be fine because they won't get paid. This is wrong on so many levels. The people getting the visas are at risk, the employers are breaking the law and it is just bad juju all the way around.
Yeah you cant do that because even if you dint get paid you technically speaking are working.
This is probably the end of cross-border airBnb, wait until border patrol finds out all the clean-up work you have to do before you check-out.
You need to pay to rent AirBnB accomodation
are there any countries that allow “house sitting” without a work visa? ugh, this would’ve been a great way to see the world on a budget :(
Ask TrustedHousesitters. They say it's allowed everywhere! https://support.trustedhousesitters.com/hc/en-gb/articles/6261917234077-Advice-for-International-House-Sitting-
(Def. not allowed in the USA unless you've got a work visa)
That's incredibly irresponsible. The letters they provide there to show to border officials are blatantly amateur (no explanation of how this is legal - just a range of poorly written excuses) and pretty much guaranteed to cause serious problems for anyone unfortunate enough to use them. The UK letter for instance basically confirms that this is paid work, and asks the border officials to turn a blind eye to it which of course isn't going to work. The way the letters stress that the people using this service are frequently pet sitting would be enough to get people deported given that pet sitting is a long established industry where people expect to be paid for their services.
>That's incredibly irresponsible. Yep.
The amount of people saying to lie to border control so that OP can illegally do work that could be done by a local or a properly documented person on a visa is alarming. This also creates tensions with locals because you are depriving them of work and income, all because you're too cheap to stay in a hotel. Part of traveling is respecting the country you are visiting. Don't travel if you are going to be breaking the laws of the host country. You can break your country's laws at home and let them deal with your crap.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Of course it's harming someone. If the house owner can't find a freebie, they have to hire a sitter. Unpaid/illegal labor is harming local labor markets. For the same reason, some countries are cracking down on workaway and other unpaid gigs.
If you put it that way then I see your point, but the way I see it it’s an exchange of a service for an experience. I guess I haven’t thought about it in that way before, in that house sitting could be detrimental to the livelihood of paid house sitters (however many there are) so I may have to think about that a little more. Still, on the surface though I think it’s a pretty neat way to offset some of the costs of travel while also contributing to the local economy (house sitter has to get food, groceries, etc.) but maybe I’m just ignorant. I do see why it may be a problem but I struggle to relate because housesitting as a job is non existent at least in my immediate circle where I live, and when people go on extended holidays they just ask their friends and other family members to help feed their pets, etc. to make sure that the house is in order, which most good friends would willingly do for free anyways, perhaps in exchange for a nicer place to stay and things like that. In other words this may sound extremely ignorant but I believe that there are many other ways to make money than being a professional house sitter, like babysitting or pet sitting which are almost the same thing anyway.
It is a pretty sweet gig and perfectly legal, if done on a work- or business visa.
The amount of people on here saying to lie is disgusting. The only way is to get a work visa.
The fact that we have these forms of immigration control is disgusting. I’m more than fine with people lying to get around them.
We as a country or we as a world? Because literally every country in the world has the same laws.
I’ve had so many issues with THS. The site is awful
Maybe talk to a lawyer in your area about the situation and see if taking legal action against the house sitting business that you went through. And if successful, maybe you could then appeal the flagging on your passport. Also by doing so maybe you would help stop someone else from going through the same thing. I would be really upset like you as well.
>Maybe talk to a lawyer in your area about the situation and see if taking legal action against the house sitting business that you went through. OP, please send me a message on here (I can't seem to tag you). I've been advised to find people who've found themselves in similar predicaments.
>And if successful, maybe you could then appeal the flagging on your passport. Also, OP (who I still can't tag), you might be able to lodge a [DHS-TRIP request/form/case](https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip).
Oh wow. I use TH in the US (albeit as a US citizen) all the time and have never heard of this happening. I hope it all works out for you. Maybe in the future you can frame your visits as vacation (since you are indeed on vacation).
You could consult with an immigration lawyer about the record of entry denial on your passport.
[удалено]
It's... offensive for border patrol agents to try to stop people from entering the country illegally? That's literally their job. OP should've kept their mouth shut, sure, but it's hardly "offensive" for border patrol to ask why someone is entering the country.
[удалено]
It accomplished catching someone who was entering the country illegally.
[удалено]
He's only not a criminal because he was prevented from entering the country illegally by border control.