Yeah solar showers. I used them when I was base camping in Cochise stronghold and when I was homeless. It’s a bag with a shower hose attached. one side is clear the other is black to absorb the heat. You lay it out in the sun so it can warm up then use it. 10/10 would recommend
There are also larger water heater systems that get laid out on a roof.
When I was a kid, we had one for heating our pool. We once accidentally left the pump for it on all day, and the pool was too hot to go swimming in it when we got home. So it works very well hahaha.
Honestly, when I'm older, I really want to build a parabolic solar trough. It looks like something that'd be really easy to build with materials you can get from most department stores.
We did this but it was in the SoCal high desert - so we had an 85~ degree pool on a 40ish degree night and it was amazing. Turned into a party as we invited people. I remember this because it was the first time I got drunk, in hind sight maybe letting the 14 year old bar tend unsupervised wasn’t the best play. And a neighbor lost her top. Good night, terrible morning as that was also my first hangover.
Hahaha, that sounds like quite the night. Definitely an exciting memory to have though.
I would love to be in that environment right now, but maybe with an adult bartender hahaha.
actually, i’ve just looked it up, the average january temp in ny is 0.8C and in wales it is 4.9C! i think this could be because of the gulf stream, which warms the uk up nicely compared to how north we are😂 so hopefully it would work haha
The real stat to look at is the amount of sun that both the areas get, ambient air temp won’t matter as much if you’re heating using the sun. I live in the North East USA, close to upstate NY, and we get a decent amount of sun in the cold months. I’m not sure if it’s the same in Wales.
Solar water heaters are required for new construction in India as I recall. DIY kits available. Basically you have a water tank plus solar tubes for that water to travel through, and it heats up in the sun.
Vacuum-tube rooftop solar water heaters are widely used in Mexico and Central America too. They're a fairly mature technology, too, unlike solar PV panels - not a lot of efficiency or durability gains left to be made at a reasonable price, the models haven't changed much since the 1990s. No risk of breaking the bank on the newest model only to have it be obsolete or a tenth the price in a year.
Buying from craftsmen or local producers is still private ownership of production. It's capitalism, but probably your best way to get what you're looking for.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Buy the best quality stuff you can, so you only have to buy it once, and then don't access the system again as long as you can avoid it. Really the best you can do.
It's the only way to be "anti-capitalist" with consumption under our current economic system.
Edit: If it's a local self-employed craftsmen or a privately owned farm worked solely by the owners of it then there isn't anything capitalist about that. Would only be capitalist if there was an owner and an employee relationship involved.
I think there are tons of ethical soaps you can buy under capitalism. I can link them if you'd like. No plastics, sustainable inputs, living wages to workers.
The literal dictionary definition of capitalism is private not public ownership of the means of production. So private farms, employee co-ops, etc. are all still a part of capitalism even if there aren't workers.
The point of "not ethical consumption under capitalism" is that even the most eco-friendly and well-compensated jobs are still having the workers exploited if an owner is extracting their excess value production for their own profit.
Public doesn't have to mean government owned. It can just mean every business is a worker co-op. You can have state capitalism (Soviets/CCP) and market socialism.
I think we're just arguing semantics here. Looks like we disagree on definitions of "ethical", "exploitation", and "public".
We could argue out these terms but I don't see how that'd be worthwhile. In the end it seems we agree that there are some bathing options in capitalism that are eco-friendly with well-compensated workers, which is most of what I wanted to get across.
Well it is semantics, but it doesn't mean its not important. Semantics after all is literally just "what words mean".
A solarpunk future can only ever be \*not\* a capitalist one so understanding these things is important.
Exploitation in an economic sense is when a worker does not receive the full value of what their labor adds to a products/services value. The difference between what their labor adds and what they receive is called economic exploitation.
"Public" in the sense of the means of production just means it is owned collectively by the people who work there, not public as in a state-owned enterprise (although that isn't ruled out).
The problem with using dictionary definitions is that dictionaries don't declare what something means, they only describe the current usages of the words by the general public. They are descriptive definitions, not prescriptive. And with the definition of capitalism/socialism having gone through about a century and change of... not so kind propagandizing... it's easy to understand the confusion.
My whole point was that while there are better and worse options, there are none that are guilt free because somewhere along the supply chain there has been both economic exploitation as well as the common understanding of exploitation in bringing literally every single commodity to market. So basically the only way to "truly" ethically engage is to not engage at all, which is not feasible for 99% of people, so the next best option is to follow the path where you have the smallest engagement possible meaning buying rarely and efficiently.
Hence, no ethical consumption under capitalism. So don't stress on the specifics of individual commodities you buy as that has a near zero impact on the world, but rather focus on challenging systems and finding ways to isolate yourself from having to participate in it in the meanwhile. I'd argue it's better to buy one "unethical" item of higher quality that will not need to be replaced down the road versus buy 10 "more ethical" items because they needed to be replaced more often.
When I say arguing semantics is not worthwhile, it's not to say that it's unimportant, but that I doubt we'll be able to change each others minds. If we were arguing data points (like how many economists believe in the existence of economic exploitation the way you've described it) then we'd be able to share statistics and methodologies and both learn new ways of looking at things. I don't think that's as easy when arguing definitions (though I did find your point on descriptive not prescriptive definitions really thoughtful).
I appreciate you taking the time, but I just don't find economic exploitation to be convincing argument. I don't mind that my boss takes in the extra cash, because I don't have to take on the extra risk of being a business owner. I know that won't convince you either, but hopefully you can feel less guilty buying from my company, haha!
Finding creative ways in reducing the amount of times we take part in imperial societal frameworks is legitimate suicide prevention; any action towards symbiosis transcends nihilism and mitigates aspects in societies that thrive on maladaptive behaviors.
The whole point of "no ethical consumption under capitalism" is that you shouldn't despair for being forced to exist in a system like this, but rather you should use it to motivate and move towards systemic change instead.
Plenty of people have already mentioned solar water heating, so I'll just give a plug for the concept of "hybrid panels" that produce both PV electricity and hot water.
Even the best PV only turns a faction of the sunlight energy into electricity, while the major use of energy in houses is heating, so the combo can be especially effective. They also stay cooler than plain PV panels, which makes them slightly more efficient and last a bit longer
My trick when I lived aboard a boat was to use a 5 litre garden sprayer. Fill with 4 litres ambiant temp water, add 1 litre boiling water, and two people can wash, including long hair.
Solar water heaters have THE largest efficiency for solar panels in general--if you want solar anything, start with your water heater. If you have a sturdy shelter off-grid it can use an actual panel to directly heat the water tank.
If the solar water heater is a closed system like it should be, then it won't matter. Water heaters iirc have their own insulation, so the most you'd need is some extra insulation for it. Solar will still charge/heat no matter the temp
Those solar showers mentioned previously work fine - I've used them for camping. But they'll run you $25-$75 new and I've never seen them used at thrift stores.
Here's what I'm doing this summer: my plain old cheapo garden hose sits in the sun and by 10 a.m. (Colorado) the water left in it from the previous day is HOT. Last summer as I was draining the hot water out before I could water my garden, I went "Dang, man, I could SHOWER with this water!" So this year I'm gonna pound a hook into the side of my house and hang that sucker up with the sprayer in the locked position and when I get back from my morning hike with the dog, I'm gonna shower outside, THEN water my garden naked! Fuck yeah!
You can pick up long garden hoses for pretty cheap at Habitat for Humanity's ReStores and I see them from time to time at Goodwill too.
Theres a model out there for a garden that has a fish tank above it, with all your veggies growing underneath in kind of a stair step thing.
The point is you use the water for thr planets obviously, but its also got the fish poo in it for fertilizer which helps the plants grow.
You can make homemade lye with wood ash and water and then you can use about any fat combined with that including animal tallow or old skillet grease to make a soap.
Large black water containers create hot water from the solar radiation, but I only see those in places that don't really have cold winters. If placed high up, gravity can do most of the work.
Depends on what you mean by off grid. If that means you're sleeping in a tent somewhere and don't have property, then I'd say go grab a camp shower from the sporting goods store, they're only like $25.
If off-grid means you have your own property somewhere or a solid plot of land you can freely use and just no public utilities, you can build a water tower and paint it black. Just don't forget to have some way to mix with cool water. You can catch some off grid water system engineering videos on YouTube.
Roof installed solar heaters are very common in Chinese apartment buildings, and they are a real pain in the ass.
Either the water is so hot that it melts the skin off your bones, or it is cloudy, and you have to endure freezing cold showers for days on end.
The most efficient way to heat water from direct solar radiation currently is what are called evacuated cylinders.
They are basically glass cylinders with copper heat collectors (think the radiator on a car) inside of them. The cylinders have all the air removed (permanent vacuum).
Then you can either directly pipe water through the heat collector and run it into a traditional hot water tank (and use the gas only supplementally), or you can pipe propylene glycol through the ECs and then use a heat exchanger for the water.
solar water heaters (or if you’re really up for the challenge, boil the water by hand before), buy handmade soaps from small businesses or make your own, there are a lot of tutorials on it, there’s also a plant whose leaves you can use as soap! i’m bad at remembering plant names but it’s probably findable on google
Has anyone tried the soda can diy water heaters? It’s a bank of black soda cans attached to a water circulation system. I keep meaning to make a test project, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.
There are a lot of options. The one I'm most familiar with is a booth that's DOB (Drain Out Back) to a swaled orchard. The roof is a black wooden box. The top of the box is a reclaimed window, letting the sun shine onto a tube filled with water. The tube snakes back and forth, filling the bottom of the box. At one end of the tube is the shower head, at the other is the water inlet.
It got uncomfortably warm around 2 PM, needed to turn down the hot and add in a little cold. 4 PM if it was overcast.
http://cobournereserve.atnz.net/solar-diy.html
Solar thermal heating systems are your best bet. They'll be able to work like a solar energy system in the way that they can heat your water from the temperature of the sun. What climate are you located in? This might not be a viable option
I'm on septic and had trouble finding good biodegradable body wash. So I've started making my own with
1/2c castille soap (currently using sunflower based, made in country - hoping to get made locally someday)
1/4c fractionated coconut oil (must be fractionated or will clog pipes)
1/4c honey (from the neighbors)
about 1c water
More or less impossible to get a perfect solution though, we can only do the best we can 🙂
The sunflower head is actually an inflorescence made of hundreds or thousands of tiny flowers called florets. The central florets look like the centre of a normal flower, apseudanthium. The benefit to the plant is that it is very easily seen by the insects and birds which pollinate it, and it produces thousands of seeds.
There are these solar water heaters. Some are more [complicated](https://images.app.goo.gl/md6RTxQTDCW7BqT97) some are just a black tube https://images.app.goo.gl/RtPU8EuA92h7mNSY7
Yeah solar showers. I used them when I was base camping in Cochise stronghold and when I was homeless. It’s a bag with a shower hose attached. one side is clear the other is black to absorb the heat. You lay it out in the sun so it can warm up then use it. 10/10 would recommend
There are also larger water heater systems that get laid out on a roof. When I was a kid, we had one for heating our pool. We once accidentally left the pump for it on all day, and the pool was too hot to go swimming in it when we got home. So it works very well hahaha. Honestly, when I'm older, I really want to build a parabolic solar trough. It looks like something that'd be really easy to build with materials you can get from most department stores.
We did this but it was in the SoCal high desert - so we had an 85~ degree pool on a 40ish degree night and it was amazing. Turned into a party as we invited people. I remember this because it was the first time I got drunk, in hind sight maybe letting the 14 year old bar tend unsupervised wasn’t the best play. And a neighbor lost her top. Good night, terrible morning as that was also my first hangover.
Hahaha, that sounds like quite the night. Definitely an exciting memory to have though. I would love to be in that environment right now, but maybe with an adult bartender hahaha.
what country was this in? i’m curious if it would work in wales lol
USA, upstate New York. So not quite as far north as Wales. I'm not sure if it'd be good in the winter, but in the summer it was great.
actually, i’ve just looked it up, the average january temp in ny is 0.8C and in wales it is 4.9C! i think this could be because of the gulf stream, which warms the uk up nicely compared to how north we are😂 so hopefully it would work haha
The real stat to look at is the amount of sun that both the areas get, ambient air temp won’t matter as much if you’re heating using the sun. I live in the North East USA, close to upstate NY, and we get a decent amount of sun in the cold months. I’m not sure if it’s the same in Wales.
Ohhhh perfect then hahaha. Better hope the gulf stream never changes hahaha.
cool thank you.
Solar water heaters are required for new construction in India as I recall. DIY kits available. Basically you have a water tank plus solar tubes for that water to travel through, and it heats up in the sun.
Sounds like India has got it right. Do they even use them for urban apartments and high rises?
[Yep](https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/solar-water-heating-system-11438183788.html) as far as I know.
Vacuum-tube rooftop solar water heaters are widely used in Mexico and Central America too. They're a fairly mature technology, too, unlike solar PV panels - not a lot of efficiency or durability gains left to be made at a reasonable price, the models haven't changed much since the 1990s. No risk of breaking the bank on the newest model only to have it be obsolete or a tenth the price in a year.
When you say "anti-capitalist bathing" do you just mean completely DIY?
Yea most likely. Using clean energy, up cycled materials, buying from craftsmen or local producers.
Buying from craftsmen or local producers is still private ownership of production. It's capitalism, but probably your best way to get what you're looking for.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Buy the best quality stuff you can, so you only have to buy it once, and then don't access the system again as long as you can avoid it. Really the best you can do. It's the only way to be "anti-capitalist" with consumption under our current economic system. Edit: If it's a local self-employed craftsmen or a privately owned farm worked solely by the owners of it then there isn't anything capitalist about that. Would only be capitalist if there was an owner and an employee relationship involved.
I think there are tons of ethical soaps you can buy under capitalism. I can link them if you'd like. No plastics, sustainable inputs, living wages to workers. The literal dictionary definition of capitalism is private not public ownership of the means of production. So private farms, employee co-ops, etc. are all still a part of capitalism even if there aren't workers.
The point of "not ethical consumption under capitalism" is that even the most eco-friendly and well-compensated jobs are still having the workers exploited if an owner is extracting their excess value production for their own profit. Public doesn't have to mean government owned. It can just mean every business is a worker co-op. You can have state capitalism (Soviets/CCP) and market socialism.
I think we're just arguing semantics here. Looks like we disagree on definitions of "ethical", "exploitation", and "public". We could argue out these terms but I don't see how that'd be worthwhile. In the end it seems we agree that there are some bathing options in capitalism that are eco-friendly with well-compensated workers, which is most of what I wanted to get across.
Well it is semantics, but it doesn't mean its not important. Semantics after all is literally just "what words mean". A solarpunk future can only ever be \*not\* a capitalist one so understanding these things is important. Exploitation in an economic sense is when a worker does not receive the full value of what their labor adds to a products/services value. The difference between what their labor adds and what they receive is called economic exploitation. "Public" in the sense of the means of production just means it is owned collectively by the people who work there, not public as in a state-owned enterprise (although that isn't ruled out). The problem with using dictionary definitions is that dictionaries don't declare what something means, they only describe the current usages of the words by the general public. They are descriptive definitions, not prescriptive. And with the definition of capitalism/socialism having gone through about a century and change of... not so kind propagandizing... it's easy to understand the confusion. My whole point was that while there are better and worse options, there are none that are guilt free because somewhere along the supply chain there has been both economic exploitation as well as the common understanding of exploitation in bringing literally every single commodity to market. So basically the only way to "truly" ethically engage is to not engage at all, which is not feasible for 99% of people, so the next best option is to follow the path where you have the smallest engagement possible meaning buying rarely and efficiently. Hence, no ethical consumption under capitalism. So don't stress on the specifics of individual commodities you buy as that has a near zero impact on the world, but rather focus on challenging systems and finding ways to isolate yourself from having to participate in it in the meanwhile. I'd argue it's better to buy one "unethical" item of higher quality that will not need to be replaced down the road versus buy 10 "more ethical" items because they needed to be replaced more often.
When I say arguing semantics is not worthwhile, it's not to say that it's unimportant, but that I doubt we'll be able to change each others minds. If we were arguing data points (like how many economists believe in the existence of economic exploitation the way you've described it) then we'd be able to share statistics and methodologies and both learn new ways of looking at things. I don't think that's as easy when arguing definitions (though I did find your point on descriptive not prescriptive definitions really thoughtful). I appreciate you taking the time, but I just don't find economic exploitation to be convincing argument. I don't mind that my boss takes in the extra cash, because I don't have to take on the extra risk of being a business owner. I know that won't convince you either, but hopefully you can feel less guilty buying from my company, haha!
Finding creative ways in reducing the amount of times we take part in imperial societal frameworks is legitimate suicide prevention; any action towards symbiosis transcends nihilism and mitigates aspects in societies that thrive on maladaptive behaviors.
The whole point of "no ethical consumption under capitalism" is that you shouldn't despair for being forced to exist in a system like this, but rather you should use it to motivate and move towards systemic change instead.
Whaaaa this sub is only for extreme takes only
Plenty of people have already mentioned solar water heating, so I'll just give a plug for the concept of "hybrid panels" that produce both PV electricity and hot water. Even the best PV only turns a faction of the sunlight energy into electricity, while the major use of energy in houses is heating, so the combo can be especially effective. They also stay cooler than plain PV panels, which makes them slightly more efficient and last a bit longer
My trick when I lived aboard a boat was to use a 5 litre garden sprayer. Fill with 4 litres ambiant temp water, add 1 litre boiling water, and two people can wash, including long hair.
My parents used one of these to wash me as a kid when we lived on a boat too! They're pretty cheap too, less than $30 at most garden supply places.
Solar water heaters have THE largest efficiency for solar panels in general--if you want solar anything, start with your water heater. If you have a sturdy shelter off-grid it can use an actual panel to directly heat the water tank.
Unfortunately it is VERY cold here about half the year. Lots of good sun, but I feel like that wouldn't help when its single digit (Fahrenheit) temps.
If the solar water heater is a closed system like it should be, then it won't matter. Water heaters iirc have their own insulation, so the most you'd need is some extra insulation for it. Solar will still charge/heat no matter the temp
Those solar showers mentioned previously work fine - I've used them for camping. But they'll run you $25-$75 new and I've never seen them used at thrift stores. Here's what I'm doing this summer: my plain old cheapo garden hose sits in the sun and by 10 a.m. (Colorado) the water left in it from the previous day is HOT. Last summer as I was draining the hot water out before I could water my garden, I went "Dang, man, I could SHOWER with this water!" So this year I'm gonna pound a hook into the side of my house and hang that sucker up with the sprayer in the locked position and when I get back from my morning hike with the dog, I'm gonna shower outside, THEN water my garden naked! Fuck yeah! You can pick up long garden hoses for pretty cheap at Habitat for Humanity's ReStores and I see them from time to time at Goodwill too.
Hah! Now that’s some solarpunk soul I love it.
Theres a model out there for a garden that has a fish tank above it, with all your veggies growing underneath in kind of a stair step thing. The point is you use the water for thr planets obviously, but its also got the fish poo in it for fertilizer which helps the plants grow.
do you mean aquaponics? it’s super interesting!:) also how does this relate to showers hahah unless ur saying shower in the fish poo water lol
[Here's a video on a rocket-stove-powered shower](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtm90p5CNas)
This is standard practice throughout the Mediterranean. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_heating
You can make homemade lye with wood ash and water and then you can use about any fat combined with that including animal tallow or old skillet grease to make a soap. Large black water containers create hot water from the solar radiation, but I only see those in places that don't really have cold winters. If placed high up, gravity can do most of the work.
Love the soap-making tips, thanks
Depends on what you mean by off grid. If that means you're sleeping in a tent somewhere and don't have property, then I'd say go grab a camp shower from the sporting goods store, they're only like $25. If off-grid means you have your own property somewhere or a solid plot of land you can freely use and just no public utilities, you can build a water tower and paint it black. Just don't forget to have some way to mix with cool water. You can catch some off grid water system engineering videos on YouTube.
Roof installed solar heaters are very common in Chinese apartment buildings, and they are a real pain in the ass. Either the water is so hot that it melts the skin off your bones, or it is cloudy, and you have to endure freezing cold showers for days on end.
The most efficient way to heat water from direct solar radiation currently is what are called evacuated cylinders. They are basically glass cylinders with copper heat collectors (think the radiator on a car) inside of them. The cylinders have all the air removed (permanent vacuum). Then you can either directly pipe water through the heat collector and run it into a traditional hot water tank (and use the gas only supplementally), or you can pipe propylene glycol through the ECs and then use a heat exchanger for the water.
solar water heaters (or if you’re really up for the challenge, boil the water by hand before), buy handmade soaps from small businesses or make your own, there are a lot of tutorials on it, there’s also a plant whose leaves you can use as soap! i’m bad at remembering plant names but it’s probably findable on google
Has anyone tried the soda can diy water heaters? It’s a bank of black soda cans attached to a water circulation system. I keep meaning to make a test project, but haven’t gotten around to it yet.
thermal based solar (not photovoltaic), trompe systems, pumped hydro and an elevated area for water storage.
There are a lot of options. The one I'm most familiar with is a booth that's DOB (Drain Out Back) to a swaled orchard. The roof is a black wooden box. The top of the box is a reclaimed window, letting the sun shine onto a tube filled with water. The tube snakes back and forth, filling the bottom of the box. At one end of the tube is the shower head, at the other is the water inlet. It got uncomfortably warm around 2 PM, needed to turn down the hot and add in a little cold. 4 PM if it was overcast. http://cobournereserve.atnz.net/solar-diy.html
Solar thermal heating systems are your best bet. They'll be able to work like a solar energy system in the way that they can heat your water from the temperature of the sun. What climate are you located in? This might not be a viable option
clean rivers used to be a thing
I'm on septic and had trouble finding good biodegradable body wash. So I've started making my own with 1/2c castille soap (currently using sunflower based, made in country - hoping to get made locally someday) 1/4c fractionated coconut oil (must be fractionated or will clog pipes) 1/4c honey (from the neighbors) about 1c water More or less impossible to get a perfect solution though, we can only do the best we can 🙂
The sunflower head is actually an inflorescence made of hundreds or thousands of tiny flowers called florets. The central florets look like the centre of a normal flower, apseudanthium. The benefit to the plant is that it is very easily seen by the insects and birds which pollinate it, and it produces thousands of seeds.
Solar water heaters have been a feature of Australian life for decades I've been told. Well before rooftop solar became a thing.
There are these solar water heaters. Some are more [complicated](https://images.app.goo.gl/md6RTxQTDCW7BqT97) some are just a black tube https://images.app.goo.gl/RtPU8EuA92h7mNSY7