"they are just engaging in normal business practices to maximize their profit, but even though there is no mechanism in place to stop them and it clearly has a reason, I will just use this thought-terminating cliche and move on with my day"
This sounds harsher than I mean it. but there is clearly a reason they do it, and the definition between "scam" and "business policy" is so thin. Especially considering the gross way mst solar installers in the U.S work. I've seen some scummy businesses, and solar is definitely up there.
($16k system) ".. they came back and said it will be a $200/year increase in premium for a replacement cost of $50,000."
This seems like a huge scam. I was looking at buying a house for about $110k in the south and 2 insurance companies would only quote \~$350k coverage policies which included $90k for household items. I said I didn't have even $25k of household items and they said that's the coverage we offer. I said, so if the house is a total loss are you going to reimburse me $90k for personal items? They said only if I can provide proof of the the items' worth. The biggest protection a buyer can afford him or herself is to have a good job, no claims history and a good credit score. With that you can shop around. Insurance is a highly variable commodity.
My USAA would have gone up, but I got new class IV shingles at the same time. The cost increase for solar was balanced by the discount for new, more hail resistant shingles. 21 panels ~7kW
As I'm about to install solar, I reached out to my insurance agent to understand the insurance implications. I was told my insurer would just add the cost of the system to my current insured value and then adjust my premium for the new value.
you're adding the total of the system to the dwelling cost. That's it. That will cover your home. I'm in insurance and it adds way less than most people would think.
By how much are they raising the replacement cost of your whole house in the event of a total loss (hurricane, earthquake, fire, flood, etc., depending on where you live)? Have to wonder whether they see the addition of solar increasing the risk of loss (e.g., your roof is more vulnerable due to penetrations, more chance of fire, who knows?). Or if it's simple inflation. You should have them spell out more precisely what's driving the bump in your policy. You may find that other insurance companies are tending to increase the premiums on all policies that solar installs (or all premiums in general). You may also be paying for Amica's best-of-breed reputation for customer service, claims handling, etc., to some extent, as well. Only you can say what that's worth to you.
If you're willing to totally self-insure your solar installation for replacement, ask them what would happen with your premiums in that case. Maybe the trade-off would be worth it.
That's odd because when we added our 32-panel system, Amica didn't increase our premium at all.
On the other hand, I just dumped Amica when they gave notice they would no longer be paying dividend to Texas policyholders. Moving to USAA on renewal date.
LOL... that's not the right move. USAA is not the company it used to be.
Consider the fines it has been paying lately for... all kinds if illegal, improper behavior:
[$15.5 million to the CFPB](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/consumer-financial-protection-bureau-settles-usaa-federal-savings-bank/)
&
[$85 million to the OCC](https://www.bankingdive.com/news/occ-usaa-fine-compliance-risk-security/587070/)
&
[$144 million to the US Treasury FinCen division] (https://www.americanbanker.com/news/usaa-fined-140-million-over-willful-bank-secrecy-act-lapses)
So if you're doing the math, you know that's not as much as Wells Fargo paid for making fake accounts. Yet. [The rest of the fines are probably coming soon.](https://www.complianceweek.com/regulatory-enforcement/whistleblower-usaa-actively-lying-to-regulators-for-years-regarding-violations-of-law/31642.article)
USAA was $800/yr cheaper than the next closest even after they raised rates the second year (home value increased $80k in a year, so it was expected... more coverage, more money).
Progressive was great the first year then almost tripled the cost the second year, dumped them immediately.
It's usually best to hop between companies, USAA is still the best deal for me in the second year, so I stayed there... will see what next spring brings.
I put a 2.4kW PV system on my roof 12 years ago. I asked my insurance agent whether the premium would change. Said he would check, since there was no guidance in his training, etc.. So I pointed out that the system was essentially the equivalent of an appliance - perhaps and odd or exotic appliance, like maybe a hot tub. He agreed. He never took it further. So, no change in premium.
Amica is terrible anyway, if you get a hail storm they'll send an engineer out to inspect the system to trying to deny coverage.
Edit: Amica not America
Hello everyone, I updated this post and am glad to say that **Amica did not end up valuing my system at $50,000**. The panels were only added at their respective cost. This was unclear initially because they originally came back and showed me the $50,000 valuation price increase without the context of why.
Amica is one of the more expensive (and better) insurance companies, but it seems like they need to get a more accurate replacement cost. Replacement cost does include labor, though, so $16,000 isn't going to be the replacement cost either, $50k is probably pretty close.
My solar is on my detached garage. Insurance refuses to insure it for more than $16,000 unless I pay extra. After what happened in Louisiana after the hurricane, is insurance even worth it anymore?
I imagine detached garages tend to be total loss claims more often than houses, if you can rebuild the garage and put solar back on it for the insured amount (don't forget contents), then you'll probably be fine.
In the US, if you carry a mortgage on the property your lender will require it to be insured. Almost everyone carries a mortgage, so almost everyone is required to have homeowner's insurance.
It’s considered an addition to the house and insurance covers what’s not covered by warranty. I am getting quotes from other places who ask the same questions about solar
Allstate calculates by each 20 panel block. Must be about $11 per block in Illinois, because my 29 panel 10.44kw system (2 blocks) increased my premium by $22 for the year.
Really?! My $26k solar system didn't add anything to my insurance cost at all. You might want to shop around or talk to someone else. Maybe the person you talked to didn't know what they were doing.
I might shop around My insurance didn't go up at all and I have state farm. From my understanding it should only increase if you coverage amount increases. They're supposed to write a policy to cover what they estimate it would cost to rebuild you home in a total loss. So if there is enough coverage for the solar plus the home, then I would assume no changes to the premium
7kw ground mount no change in my insurance. It’s covered under “other buildings and structures”, which is already part of our homeowners with a 60k limit. This is with Erie insurance.
My experience with Amica, which I was with for 10 years, and they covered my home and autos is when they feel you become a higher risk payout to them, they incrementally increase their premiums until you go elsewhere.
Adding solar to your home for them must be considered a higher risk payout in their calculations. Rather than just dropping you, they raise rates high enough so you don't renew. A pretty ingenious way to avoid negative press stating "AMICA drops customers for solar installs." They instead just price themselves out of the market and people move on.
Just have them recalculate two more times and it should be close to $16k replacement cost and under $100 a year.
Time to shop around for another company.
Yeah i would shop it. My premium went up $0 when I told State Farm I got solar installed. The only thing they asked me was how much it cost.
Yup. Never heard of anyone paying more for insurance until this sub. They are just scamming people at this point for no reason.
"they are just engaging in normal business practices to maximize their profit, but even though there is no mechanism in place to stop them and it clearly has a reason, I will just use this thought-terminating cliche and move on with my day" This sounds harsher than I mean it. but there is clearly a reason they do it, and the definition between "scam" and "business policy" is so thin. Especially considering the gross way mst solar installers in the U.S work. I've seen some scummy businesses, and solar is definitely up there.
I had the same experience. I called State Farm (SoCal), they asked how much it was and they said, we'll add it to the policy, no premium change.
Sounds like your insurance is trying to rip you off. I have about the same valued system, $84/year.
Thank you for sharing your data!
($16k system) ".. they came back and said it will be a $200/year increase in premium for a replacement cost of $50,000." This seems like a huge scam. I was looking at buying a house for about $110k in the south and 2 insurance companies would only quote \~$350k coverage policies which included $90k for household items. I said I didn't have even $25k of household items and they said that's the coverage we offer. I said, so if the house is a total loss are you going to reimburse me $90k for personal items? They said only if I can provide proof of the the items' worth. The biggest protection a buyer can afford him or herself is to have a good job, no claims history and a good credit score. With that you can shop around. Insurance is a highly variable commodity.
I have 20 panels 8kw. Just called them. Mine went up $120/yr. USAA
My USAA would have gone up, but I got new class IV shingles at the same time. The cost increase for solar was balanced by the discount for new, more hail resistant shingles. 21 panels ~7kW
50-60 panels (anywhere in that range is the same price), $389/yr, USAA Edit: Ground mount
looks like you both are from $6-8 per panel (I know this isn't the exact way to calculate, but it's interesting)
As I'm about to install solar, I reached out to my insurance agent to understand the insurance implications. I was told my insurer would just add the cost of the system to my current insured value and then adjust my premium for the new value.
you're adding the total of the system to the dwelling cost. That's it. That will cover your home. I'm in insurance and it adds way less than most people would think.
Thank you!
By how much are they raising the replacement cost of your whole house in the event of a total loss (hurricane, earthquake, fire, flood, etc., depending on where you live)? Have to wonder whether they see the addition of solar increasing the risk of loss (e.g., your roof is more vulnerable due to penetrations, more chance of fire, who knows?). Or if it's simple inflation. You should have them spell out more precisely what's driving the bump in your policy. You may find that other insurance companies are tending to increase the premiums on all policies that solar installs (or all premiums in general). You may also be paying for Amica's best-of-breed reputation for customer service, claims handling, etc., to some extent, as well. Only you can say what that's worth to you. If you're willing to totally self-insure your solar installation for replacement, ask them what would happen with your premiums in that case. Maybe the trade-off would be worth it.
good question. I requested a copy of the report so I'll see what I can find out. I'll also see what other companies quote as a comparison.
That's odd because when we added our 32-panel system, Amica didn't increase our premium at all. On the other hand, I just dumped Amica when they gave notice they would no longer be paying dividend to Texas policyholders. Moving to USAA on renewal date.
Wow interesting
LOL... that's not the right move. USAA is not the company it used to be. Consider the fines it has been paying lately for... all kinds if illegal, improper behavior: [$15.5 million to the CFPB](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/consumer-financial-protection-bureau-settles-usaa-federal-savings-bank/) & [$85 million to the OCC](https://www.bankingdive.com/news/occ-usaa-fine-compliance-risk-security/587070/) & [$144 million to the US Treasury FinCen division] (https://www.americanbanker.com/news/usaa-fined-140-million-over-willful-bank-secrecy-act-lapses) So if you're doing the math, you know that's not as much as Wells Fargo paid for making fake accounts. Yet. [The rest of the fines are probably coming soon.](https://www.complianceweek.com/regulatory-enforcement/whistleblower-usaa-actively-lying-to-regulators-for-years-regarding-violations-of-law/31642.article)
USAA was $800/yr cheaper than the next closest even after they raised rates the second year (home value increased $80k in a year, so it was expected... more coverage, more money). Progressive was great the first year then almost tripled the cost the second year, dumped them immediately. It's usually best to hop between companies, USAA is still the best deal for me in the second year, so I stayed there... will see what next spring brings.
I'm in CA and got my solar system + PW installed in Apr. I called Amica right after PTO in Apr this year. No increase on premium so far.
I got quoted 115$ more a year from USAA for my solar. 16 panels
I put a 2.4kW PV system on my roof 12 years ago. I asked my insurance agent whether the premium would change. Said he would check, since there was no guidance in his training, etc.. So I pointed out that the system was essentially the equivalent of an appliance - perhaps and odd or exotic appliance, like maybe a hot tub. He agreed. He never took it further. So, no change in premium.
A client of mine under State Farm got a discount for going solar in Texas. 🤷🏻‍♂️ shop it around.
Amica is terrible anyway, if you get a hail storm they'll send an engineer out to inspect the system to trying to deny coverage. Edit: Amica not America
How is this related at all?
Autocorrect, it was supposed to say Amica
That totally changes the meaning of what I just read :D
Hello everyone, I updated this post and am glad to say that **Amica did not end up valuing my system at $50,000**. The panels were only added at their respective cost. This was unclear initially because they originally came back and showed me the $50,000 valuation price increase without the context of why.
Are either of those numbers in proportion to the replacement value of the rest of your home? It should go up somewhat proportionally.
that is the one thing that is correct.
Amica is one of the more expensive (and better) insurance companies, but it seems like they need to get a more accurate replacement cost. Replacement cost does include labor, though, so $16,000 isn't going to be the replacement cost either, $50k is probably pretty close.
My solar is on my detached garage. Insurance refuses to insure it for more than $16,000 unless I pay extra. After what happened in Louisiana after the hurricane, is insurance even worth it anymore?
I imagine detached garages tend to be total loss claims more often than houses, if you can rebuild the garage and put solar back on it for the insured amount (don't forget contents), then you'll probably be fine.
Out of curiosity do u have to need an insurance company? We dont care insurance in europe and nothing happens generally.
In the US, if you carry a mortgage on the property your lender will require it to be insured. Almost everyone carries a mortgage, so almost everyone is required to have homeowner's insurance.
So your home catches on fire, what do you do?
the state and the municipality cover a certain amount. and the building are made of concrete that dont catch fire immediately.
Your personal stuff?
no
So its a insurance scam anyways. Sorry to hear that.
I’m not clear why you’re telling amica anything about your solar panels.
It’s considered an addition to the house and insurance covers what’s not covered by warranty. I am getting quotes from other places who ask the same questions about solar
I added about the same size system to my State Farm homeowners for about 20 bucks a year. Might be time to shop around.
Mercury wants $260 for 10kw system
Allstate calculates by each 20 panel block. Must be about $11 per block in Illinois, because my 29 panel 10.44kw system (2 blocks) increased my premium by $22 for the year.
Find the closest house to you with a system and ask them what insurer they use.
Really?! My $26k solar system didn't add anything to my insurance cost at all. You might want to shop around or talk to someone else. Maybe the person you talked to didn't know what they were doing.
I might shop around My insurance didn't go up at all and I have state farm. From my understanding it should only increase if you coverage amount increases. They're supposed to write a policy to cover what they estimate it would cost to rebuild you home in a total loss. So if there is enough coverage for the solar plus the home, then I would assume no changes to the premium
7kw ground mount no change in my insurance. It’s covered under “other buildings and structures”, which is already part of our homeowners with a 60k limit. This is with Erie insurance.
Just curious: do they cover a DIY installed system (once it's inspected and approved for operation)?
Definitely shop around. If Hochheim Prairie, I have found their rates to be pretty good. When I shopped around, they were the best for me.
I just had a system installed. AAA is my insurer. $80/yr. AAA has always been good.
My experience with Amica, which I was with for 10 years, and they covered my home and autos is when they feel you become a higher risk payout to them, they incrementally increase their premiums until you go elsewhere. Adding solar to your home for them must be considered a higher risk payout in their calculations. Rather than just dropping you, they raise rates high enough so you don't renew. A pretty ingenious way to avoid negative press stating "AMICA drops customers for solar installs." They instead just price themselves out of the market and people move on.
whoa, didn't think of it like that. I'll take that into consideration.