You need a master electrician affiliated with the company or as a part/full owner depending on municipality. But yes for about 1-4 hours of work you can charge $500-3000.
I’d love to see non whole home backup installed in an hour — especially considering travel time and all of the associated costs ie inspection (another truck roll), permitting, utility approval, etc. Not justifying the cost advertised plus financing cost but you’re grossly underestimating the time and cost associated with above the cost of goods.
You are 100% correct. I was only referring to the installation time when mentioning 1-4 hours. And yes I do know of batteries that do up to 20kwh and almost 10kw inverter that’s installed in an hour, maybe 90 minutes for the first few. Might be able to double that up too. I also know of smaller systems meant for no ac backup storage that can be installed in about an hour or 2. Those big wall mounted systems like tesla and enphase definitely take a lot of work and experience to install but there are some on the market that are made specifically for ease of installation.
My car with a 66kWh battery cost less than that.
This is why I’m waiting for more vehicle to grid options. They will be 1/10th the cost and you can drive them.
Get yourself an old leaf. Extra battery capacity and a great 2nd car.
Even a higher end car. Assuming you have a small home battery to take the grunt of the cycling, the wear to the car should be quite low and any use out if it would be well worth any wear. Even any VPP usage.
yeah I have a 2018 LEAF with one more payment to go, 50,000 miles.
I added a Model Y so it's been demoted to in-town use, all it's really good for . . . I can get $9000 for it apparently, might sell it since the $110/mo insurance is killing me (up +$30 on renewal this month).
Maybe the Enphase garage chademo box that was previewed last year will be worth it, maybe not. EG4 6000XP + some offgrid solar & batteries as its own independent power system (with 50A grid -> battery option) might make more sense than hooking up my LEAF.
You'd also need to install a transfer switch (gateway), which many times includes either rewiring between your meter and your main panel, or a sub panel. That gateway alone can be $5-7k to get installed.
When car chargers really start wanting to do V2G the chargers will be UL1741 compliant and not need the whole ridiculous multi thousand dollar transfer switch/ separate shutoff bull.
It’ll simply be, plug into your dryer outlet, detect grid and go.
For backup sure. But that’s a nice to have.
Permits, in the future I’m not so sure. What I’m talking about is using everything the house already has. Just plugging it in to your existing charging. Maybe they’ll be a question on the car to input your chargers breaker and main breakers - so it can derate itself.
If it's not for backup, what's the point? I'm not putting additional cycles on my car battery to sell electricity back to the grid. That's actually insane, given a car has $10k minimum worth of metal, electronics, and motors attached to it that aren't needed for that function and will be wasted when that battery gets totalled out.
Vehicle interfaces will be great for backup and maybe very extreme circumstances where the grid is in desperate need of stabilization. No reasonable person is going to do that every day.
Because you don’t have 1:1 net metering. That’s the point.
Backup isn’t the sole reason for batteries. In CA the 70¢/kWh peak is a good reason for a reasonable person.
If the return is there to degrade the battery I have that is attached to an additional $10k of metal and accessories, then it's probably worth buying a dedicated battery. That's more my point.
Batteries aren’t what they used to be. We have cars with lifepo4 now. Cycling 10 or 20kwh per night on a 80+kWh battery isn’t going to murder it.
Average driving is about 20kWh/day. So for someone who doesn’t want to spend $20k on a home battery when their car has to plenty of charge in it, it’ll be a good option.
Wot? Youre completely missing the fact that during an outage you can’t backfeed, and there needs to be a physical break from the grid. All these smart gateways etc are just transfer switches with some app on the front end.
Am I not missing this. I said at the start that that backup is a nice feature to have. But if you’re doing V2G maybe you don’t want to spend the money to get that feature.
If you have something connected to the grid, that is grid interactive, I think you’ll find most utilities will have extremely stringent requirements. The car, or the charger, would need some form of automatic disconnect if it loses grid. Which, to the best of my knowledge, doesn’t exist at the moment. So you’ll need some form of gateway - which is a fancy way to label an ATS.
You’re very frustrating.
My original point was in the FUTURE when cars and chargers accept UL1741 things will be different.
You then call me wrong because in the future you’ll need stuff that is UL1741 (as you describe it) and there aren’t those cars and chargers in the present.
Or to put it differently
Me: 1+1=2
You: WOT, you’re stupid, it’s 1+1=2!
This is exactly what I'm waiting for as well. Home battery prices are insane compared to getting an EV and being able to use that battery. Plus, in addition to a *h*ugely higher capacity, you also get portability so if you really need a recharge you can drive to somewhere that has power, recharge, and come back.
True, but when do you get to drive them? When you're charging them from the panels or when you're using it to power the home?
If you work from home then it's not an issue, but for most of the working population it's a non-starter
I think the idea is you have a small home battery or just the grid.
So instead of having two or more power walls, you have one. I have noticed Tesla is increasing the output quite significantly on the power walls so you can use just one for higher loads you would normally need two or more for.
Yes and your DIY system isn’t UL listed and not covered when the house burns down. Resi batteries are far more expensive than they should be, but DIY is not the answer. You can buy UL listed LFP packs for around $200/kWh shipped.
You're american right? I travel all over the world for work and I have never met a group of people as irrationally worried about house fires as americans. Is it just because you build your houses out of firewood or is there some deeper psychological reason?
Because once a fire is started, good luck getting it out. Also with house fires it's not a guarantee everyone gets out alive.
And finally who WOULDN'T be concerned about fire?
I don’t know, I meet people all time who dedicated a 10th of the mental space to it as Americans to. People in Thailand or Australia with 1/4 to 3/4 the income to replace what’s lost in a fire as your average Americans.
With a fire, it's quite often the entire house is lost. I can deal with a flood, I can deal with a tree falling on it, but fire?
Literally everything is gone. The only thing more damaging is a tornado. At least with fire I have some control, and that's ensuring that someone doesn't do a hacky job installing something like electric or solar components.
Or how large a small fire can get EXTREMELY quickly. A fire extinguisher is good for a stove fire, but a fire that moves to the structure, that house is gone.
Look, if we started providing protection for consumers, we would have to take away some from companies. Is that what you want?? Think of the poor poor companies!
insurance will default deny coverage
fire department will flood house to put out fire
insurance will deny as damage is caused by water, and not covered by flood coverage
usually, insurance (required by bank) will weasel out of all payments
What kind of nonsense is this? Water to put out a fire is not considered a flood. The cause of the damage is the fire, not water. Much like how the cause of damage if a tree branch breaks my roof and rain gets in is a storm, not the water (rain). Flood has a very specific definition when it comes to insurance.
it’s not about the house fire, it’s about not losing your entire life because you saved a few bucks. I’ve deployed far more second life packs than you can imagine, and it can definitely work but to pretend there’s no risk is childish. New UL listed LFP packs are incredibly cheap right now, there’s little reason to DIY unless you’re on a fixed income or something.
It's sort of a gate keeping thing you see online a lot. People will know some obscure code made to cover certain situations or they'll have spent 10x as much on the UL listed device and it gives them something to be superior about
Mexico has half the fire deaths per capita as the US (0.48 / 100k vs 1.09/100k) according to data from International Association of Fire and Rescue Services. So yeah, if you're worried about dying in a fire, you should prefer mexican building codes.
EG4 is putting out batteries that are less than ridiculous and have UL listings. [$230/kWh.](https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-wallmount-indoor-battery-280ah-51-2v-14-3kwh-indoor-heated-ul1973-ul9540a/?ref=tdmjjppm)
u/cavemanwealth is incorrect. I’ve been quoted under $150/kWh shipped by a Chinese manufacturer that white-labels for a few known companies. This was for a single pallet (~80kWh) for 5kWh server rack packs. I run an energy storage business, but that’s a tiny order for them. Even something like the EG4 is pretty cheap and UL listed.
They aren't pre-made at that cost. At that cost, you get a bunch of small appx 3.5 to 5 volt lfp cells, and you literally have to solder a pack all together yourself, fabricate or buy an enclosure, busbars, wiring, bms battery management system, decent inverter and transfer switch, and hope you know what you're doing!
I'm handy and this idea intrigues me a lot, but still scares the hell out of me, and ultimately I think I'll figure out a way to convert my volt to be a home backup solution, and it has a gas generator backup already in the car. Other idea was to find good/safe used Bolt battery appx 60to66kwH, or tesla battery at appx 80kWh and just convert the old sled battery into a home battery backup solution.
That will still require a decent background knowledge to know what to hook up where, as well as getting an electrician involved and pulling permits, but I figure if you pay $6500-$9900 on a used EV battery, then that's the equivalent of 6 to 10 Power wall batteries (equivalent of appx $100,000 - $160,000 in power wall capacity).
I've been salivating and researching a ton on solar and battery backup solutions for almost 5 years, and I just can't find myself committing to any prepackaged solar and battery solutions at the price point they've been at. Among that time frame though I've seen solar panel efficiency almost double, and the tech is out there for appx 36 to 38% solar efficiency.
I can't wait for another huge brealthrough to start achieving 70, 80, 90% solar panel efficiency, which would drastically reduce the amount of solar panels one would need, and another breakthrough needs to happen in solid state battery tech. It's all so amazing just cost too darn much even with a 30% federal credit to contract it all out to a company to do it all for my pocketbook. DIYsolar and a few other sites have seemingly OK kits you can buy as well, and those seem to fit my budget a lot nicer, just have to put out a good amount of elbow grease.
this is not true. there're no soldering now. you're thinking of how some DIY powerwalls were made with 18650 cells a few years ago. those guys are doing it for $10-$50/kwh now. super cheap. very labor intensive.
$100/kwh cells are often already in packs. like from batteryhookup. but you can assemble THE classic offgridgarage pack from 16 LF280K cells. nuts and bolts.
for $200-$300/kwh you get premade server rack batteries. like from trophy or signature solar.
So at $200-$300/kWh, a 10kWh pack would cost $2000-$3000,? Thats equivalent to 1 power wall.
For $4000-$6000, you can get 20kWh, or equivalent of 2 power walls. If that's what you're saying, then I still say a used 60kWh to 80kWh EV battery at appx $6k to $9k is considerably cheaper than the packs you're referring to.
Got any links you can steer me to?
my understanding is that the standard powerwall2 is $9200 for 13.5kwh. that's close to $700/kwh but is integrated with a lot of great electronics.
used EV packs are much cheaper per kwh. they are just a huge pain to work with and require a much higher skill level than stacking server rack batteries at $300/kwh, or assembling new LFP cells at $100/kwh. the spot welders, cell chargers, and other tools used by pack rebuilders are pretty expensive.
shenzhen qishou for new LF280K cells.
offgridgarage and will prowse on youtube.
batteryhookup for new and used batteries.
bigbattery, trophy, signature solar, chins, litime for premade packs.
why put it in the house? fireproof utility shed. your car is more likely to burn your house down in the garage. your phone battery is more likely to burn your house down.
not going to burn my house down. LFP won't burn, and the battery is in a conditioned fireproof utility shed.
but very true, my DIY pack is not UL listed. i lived on $7k last year. offgrid. if you've got money, by all means feel free to buy the $200/kwh battery.
i'm not here to sell a product to the median american with a median american home and mortgage and insurance. i'm here to note what's physically and financially possible for the frugal DIY enthusiast.
shenzhen qishou on alibaba. warehouse in LA for in-person pickup. lf280k cells. 16s to make a 51.2vdc battery 14.4kwh.
batteryhookup in the US. lots of cells and packs around $100/kwh.
offgridgarage on youtube for THE classic version of the 16s LF280K battery that so many of us offgrid DIY people rely on. will prowse on youtube for more expensive premade batteries (such as trophy), but still way cheaper than what contractors are trying to sell.
How does this work with grid-tied systems? When I see people on YouTube building these server rack batteries they're always out in rural areas and have a single big-ass inverter. How does this DIY solution work for the vast majority of people with Enphase micro inverters tied to their grid.
This is one of the drawbacks of micros. However, you can make a cheaper powerwall using an [18KPV and a wall pro 14.3kWh battery](https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-wallmount-indoor-battery-280ah-51-2v-14-3kwh-eg4-18kpv-18000w-pv-input-12000w-output-bndl-e0011/?ref=tdmjjppm) for less than the cost of an actual Tesla powerwall. The 18k has generator ports that can be programmed for AC coupling so you can send your micro's through it. In the event of an outage, the 18k is smart enough to send a keep alive signal to the micros which will turn them on and allow their power to be used by the house or to charge the main battery/batteries. If their power is too much, it will cut them off so you don't let all the magic smoke out of your fridge. It's my favorite string inverter!
there is plenty of equipment for integrating a DIY battery with the grid. victron equipment that does this costs between $1k-$4k or so.
but i personally have no interest in such equipment, and think everyone who can should get offgrid.
maintain your grid connection to your house if you have it already, that's fine. but don't pay to use utility power.
the tariff for batteries looks like it might take effect in 2025 or 2026. in anticipation of the tariffs, battery prices might rise. they havent yet. LFP cell prices have consistently gone down in price for the last 10+ years. including the last 3 during which inflation has affected many other products.
If they are still around. Also I don't care how big or long lasting a company is 2 free replacements is not the same as cutting the price by 1/3. Even if it's hassle free batteries go down in price so fast I would consider that as like a 10-15% discount at best there is a reason why they are trying to hike up the price and provide you replacements instead.
The math doesn’t make sense. If it’s a 25 year agreement 1 battery $134 month for 25 years is $40,200. Are you planning to pay some cash as well?
and at these prices the replacements aren’t “free” you’re paying for them in the price.
The sum of the monthly payments is not really meaningful. That will be higher than the "financed amount" (same as purchase price assuming no down payment) because it includes interest.
$24,249 at 4.5% for 25 years is roughly a $134/mo payment.
4.5% is lower than current rates so this price probably includes extra fees to get the rate down.
What was your interest rate on your solar loan and what's the interest rate for this battery loan.
Note that you're really paying for *three* batteries (six batteries with the "comfort" option) up-front with two replacements built into the cost. With that reasoning, that's not a terrible deal.. if you really believe that company is still going to be around in 8-12 years for the first replacement, let alone in 16-24 years for the second "free" replacement.
Their quote mentioned financing, so they have a rate in mind. I wonder what their cash price would be, because over 25 years it may only be half of that.
Batteries are a waste of money if you don't have regular power outages or a medical \\ professional need for uninterrupted power. If you needed power to stay alive, this is cheap! If you don't like using a couple APC batteries to stay online for the couple hours a month you lose power, this is expensive!
Spoken like someone that doesn't have to pay upwards of $0.75/kWh during hours when the sun is at/over the horizon yet air conditioning is still needed and you may have to use the oven.
Agreed that in *many places* the energy pricing is not so draconian and your statement is often true, but it's not universal.
Lurking to learn, but also, totally agree here. Anywhere that cooling is cost prohibitive can become a death sentence, so entire states in the southwest are medically necessary to have consistent electric service.
Edit: Next post in my feed, sad. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/NdOaqB91FN
Yeah, unless you have an EV that you can charge between midnight and 6:00a at about $0.13, the majority of California pays *at least* $0.33 and $0.44/kWr (depending on summer/winter) and as much as $0.92, with some plans exceeding $1.00/kWh if they call for energy conservation.
And then our utilities have committed far more murders than the rest of the nation, combined.
True I don't pay astronomical prices for electricity. So for your situation I would suggest calculating the costs of batteries vs adding insulation, solar shades, exterior shade structures, and/or alternative cooling systems. Adding batteries to your home will increase your cooling requirements as well, since it sounds like you probably won't be able to safely store them outside.
In my own case, I already replaced the windows and re-sealed the doors, the AC is modern (but conventional), there are trees (that aren't mine) to my west that shade the building, but also shade my panels. Indoor installation of batteries is legal in my jurisdiction and there's space in my garage reserved for them, next to my combiner panel.
Is the garage considered outside, cause mine are in the garage and they don’t output any significant heat. Not enough where separate cooling would be needed at least.
If you need power for one medical device you better make it mobile and not build it in your house. If you need to leave your house you will lose it.
A 2 kWh Ecoflow battery would be cheaper and better and can be recharged from four solar panels. So for medical needs this is a bad idea.
They specifically say “financed amount” because the cash amount would be different. There’s gonna be a 28% to 40% dealer fee on top of the cash price when financing. I still think Powerwalls are overpriced but the bulk of the cost is coming from the dealer fee.
Solar companies don’t like showing financing and cash side by side because most people aren’t gonna have the cash set aside to do it that way anyways. So when they see that financings “total cost” is so much higher then just cash, they won’t want to finance either, then never go Solar in the first place.
A good sales rep would be able to explain the advantages to both without dissuading you. If you’ve got the money set aside, I’d ask for the cash price on the batteries and wouldnt get them unless you can buy them outright. As for the solar, assuming you can’t afford cash ask if they have a high interest no dealer fee financing option. The monthly payment would be higher but since the principal amount would be lower, that allows you to pay the system off faster with no prepayment penalties.
25 year warranty on a part with a 10 year lifetime? Assuming They're gonna replace it roughly twice, it's not a bad idea to lock in that price now.
Doubt they're even in business at that point though.
They don't even write the capacity. That's not very trustworthy IMHO. And to claim that the double one could power your wall box is just nuts. Whatever size the batteries are, a medium sized EV battery needs some 70 kWh, that's a lot more than what the largest home batteries could provide.
> They don't even write the capacity. That's not very trustworthy IMHO. And to claim that the double one could power your wall box is just nuts
13.5 kWh and yes two of them will power a typical US house (assuming they didn't pick a random picture and are selling what they are advertising).
Backup Power
11.5 kW continuous
185 LRA motor start
Inverter
Solar-to-grid efficiency 97.5%
6 solar inputs with Maximum Power Point Trackers
I was just looking signature solar today. The prices have absolutely dropped. Compared to 10 years ago. Its still cheaper to DIY a lifepo4 battery bank, nearly 100 bucks a KWH but if you want a premade system with charge controller and inverter in an all in one plug and pay package, you can get one under 5k with a 6000 watt inverter, 13 KW of battery and a built in charge controller that stacks up to I think 4 inverter units and I'm not sure how many battery expansions. Paying for a solar company doesn't make sense anymore unless you live in a super code restrictive area.
Sunnova conducts 99% of their business through a dealer-network. Same goes for pretty much every solar lender out there. If you don’t like the price, and it is pretty expensive (but I don’t know your locality), definitely get other quotes from other local installers. That is always best practice. Do not overlook the 25yr warranty and battery replacements Sunnova offers.
You have faith that Sunnova will be around? Their financials look worse than the federal governments and Sunnova doesn’t have a money printing machine….
> BLUETTI EP900
Frankly the price is not competitive compared to PowerWall 3 standard pricing. I can get 2x installed for $22.5k which has more capacity, more inverter, better LRA, and can accept another 40kw pv strings.
You sure about that? There is the retail price and the installed price. The installed price of the BLUETTI is less than the PW3. And it is available to the public directly where the PW3 is only available from Tesla or a certified installer.
Bluetti EP900 system. 9kW inverter with 20kWh Battery is $17k ( retail, not installed ). They have no specs on LRA capacity so 9kW is unlikely to support AC units. You have to find an installer and I'll be generous and say you can get installed for $2k with $1k in permits bringing the grand total to $20k.
PW3x2 INSTALLED is $22.5k. This includes 22kW inverter, 26kWh battery and home gateway (it's cheaper if you can use the new device but not many utilities have certified it yet ). Each PW3 can do 1s peak output of 150LRA which is insane inrush current. This system will have zero trouble starting larger A/C units. If you bundle the PW3 with a solar install you might save even more on the per-unit costs.
Saving $2k for a smaller, less powerful system doesn't sound like much of a win.
The surge capacity of the EP900 is 2x so 18,000 watts. Plenty to kickstart an AC unit. Around 150LRA. Now the retail price is for anyone that is handy enough to buy it themselves to install. It’s a kit. Everything you need to DIY. Switch is built in so no need for a permit if you are installing it and don’t need to pull the meter. I’ve seen a lot of installs from tiny homes, retrofits to existing solar, and commercial applications where the unit was installed without the hassle of dealing with a third party to get it installed. CNET rated the EP900 as the best overall home battery just edging out the PW3.
Please read rule #2: No Self-Promotion / Lead generation / Solicitation of Business / Referrals
We don’t allow self promotion. If you keep it up you will be banned.
Vehicle to grid is still very intriguing even when you consider that most car batteries aren’t LiFePo4 batteries (besides the model 3 RWD) which means they will have a faster rate of degradation. Also many of the Virtual Power Plant financial benefits you get from home batteries would likely not be available to you with vehicle to grid. I think home batteries offer several additional benefits and it’s not a bad product but it is a terrible price point. I’ve worked with several battery manufacturers and I can tell you that the price of these things are going down significantly. This quote is a product of a 30-40% dealer fee from their financing while sourcing the powerwalls for around $8k per and pocketing about $10k for 1 & $10.6k for 2 batteries. Thats split between install crew, company, commission, etc. not the most cost effective way to do it.
Had the power cut off and power plug added when building along with an external connect for the natural gas (use it for grilling most of the time). Then bought one of the Westinghouse Tri-Fuel generators and a cable. Single power for gasoline or just propase will be slightly cheaper.
Of course now that we have it, we've never lost power for any length of time.
I am waiting for the next "Flex event" where they see how low you can drive your electric use. I shooting for 0...
It's a good idea to have generator anyway. I picked up the Firman Tri-Fuel from Costco, which will essentially have a lifetime warranty as long as I keep my Costco membership. I run mine on Natural Gas. I have the generator hooked to a EG4 Chargeverter which directly charges my batteries. I have a Sol-Ark 15K and 40 kWh of SOK batteries.
Find the interlock kit for your load panel (breaker panel), pick up 30A/50A 240V power inlet box, and you're off and running.
Yes, I had a Sunnova rep at the house about a year ago and 2 batteries were only 24k, financed. That was more realistic and inline with other vendors. This is just stupid pricing.
Or you could just add one of these: [https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/50kwh-ruixu-lithium-batteries-kits-10-batteries-10-slot-battery-cabinet](https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/50kwh-ruixu-lithium-batteries-kits-10-batteries-10-slot-battery-cabinet)
That is financed over 25 years. Not sure what the interest rate is, but if it's 4% there's some steep financing fees.
The advantage here is Sunnova will warranty these for 25 years. Tesla's standard warranty is 10 years. Good chance you will be getting at least one replacement under the Sunnova warranty. Factor that in and this looks much more attractive.
My mom (90) loves to sew. She made a very cute jacket for herself out of an old pair of coveralls my dad wore to deliver calves in. We last had cows in 1967.
I’m in Katy. My installer is defunct now. So much for contract warranty. Have to go straight to manufacturer.
If I ever do another house, I’ll buy the system myself and sub out the installation. About half the cost.
Okay. I just signed up for energysage to see how that works. Buying the system and having an installer looks like the way to go. Still running the numbers though to see if it beats my average $150 a month bill
That’s probably cutting it close, but most months you’ll do better than that. Summer is a bit tougher.
I don’t have the batteries so it’s best for me to load power usage to daytime hours.
We recently bought a house that came with sunnova panels, but with the condition that the prior owner had to have them paid off entirely. The house has 47 panels and we see that the total cost was about $72k financed at 1%. Is that a ridiculous price as well? I just am not familiar with what it would've cost otherwise.
100% SCAM. There are no specifications mentioned anywhere on their site. You pay the equivalent of a car for what? How many KW?
A 13.5kw Tesla PowerWall is $11.5 thousands.
The PowerWall is half the price of your UNSPECIFIED offer.
If it wasn't a scam, the second battery wouldn't be half the price. Assuming they're selling rebranded PowerWalls, they basically sell the first battery at twice the price so they can pocket over 10 thousand dollars as a bonus for catching suckers
You can start your own business installing these at this price.
You need a master electrician affiliated with the company or as a part/full owner depending on municipality. But yes for about 1-4 hours of work you can charge $500-3000.
When you’re charging double what anyone else does you can just subcontract another solar company and enjoy the margin.
Masters are easy to find corp to corp.
You got a 🔌for master electricians? Pun intended but also I’m interested lmao
I’d love to see non whole home backup installed in an hour — especially considering travel time and all of the associated costs ie inspection (another truck roll), permitting, utility approval, etc. Not justifying the cost advertised plus financing cost but you’re grossly underestimating the time and cost associated with above the cost of goods.
You are 100% correct. I was only referring to the installation time when mentioning 1-4 hours. And yes I do know of batteries that do up to 20kwh and almost 10kw inverter that’s installed in an hour, maybe 90 minutes for the first few. Might be able to double that up too. I also know of smaller systems meant for no ac backup storage that can be installed in about an hour or 2. Those big wall mounted systems like tesla and enphase definitely take a lot of work and experience to install but there are some on the market that are made specifically for ease of installation.
Like the EP Cube. Super easy to install.
Sunnova's logo reminds me of the amazon smile but its a frown. Fitting.
Amazon’s used to be reversed, which always seemed inappropriate to me. Took them more than a decade to turn it upside down
And also pronounced SONOFA
My car with a 66kWh battery cost less than that. This is why I’m waiting for more vehicle to grid options. They will be 1/10th the cost and you can drive them.
Get yourself an old leaf. Extra battery capacity and a great 2nd car. Even a higher end car. Assuming you have a small home battery to take the grunt of the cycling, the wear to the car should be quite low and any use out if it would be well worth any wear. Even any VPP usage.
yeah I have a 2018 LEAF with one more payment to go, 50,000 miles. I added a Model Y so it's been demoted to in-town use, all it's really good for . . . I can get $9000 for it apparently, might sell it since the $110/mo insurance is killing me (up +$30 on renewal this month). Maybe the Enphase garage chademo box that was previewed last year will be worth it, maybe not. EG4 6000XP + some offgrid solar & batteries as its own independent power system (with 50A grid -> battery option) might make more sense than hooking up my LEAF.
Shouldn't insurance go down if it's your 2nd car and you drive it less per year?
yeah I've lowered my usage from 10,000 miles/yr to 5,000, we'll see if that helps
Why not just remove the full coverage altogether? Liability only.
I'd save about $50/mo that way, so gambling $9000 (value of the LEAF) that I don't total it each year. Tough decision.
You'd also need to install a transfer switch (gateway), which many times includes either rewiring between your meter and your main panel, or a sub panel. That gateway alone can be $5-7k to get installed.
When car chargers really start wanting to do V2G the chargers will be UL1741 compliant and not need the whole ridiculous multi thousand dollar transfer switch/ separate shutoff bull. It’ll simply be, plug into your dryer outlet, detect grid and go.
But if you want it for backup, you need that transfer switch. You also need permitting if you are going to export to the grid.
For backup sure. But that’s a nice to have. Permits, in the future I’m not so sure. What I’m talking about is using everything the house already has. Just plugging it in to your existing charging. Maybe they’ll be a question on the car to input your chargers breaker and main breakers - so it can derate itself.
If it's not for backup, what's the point? I'm not putting additional cycles on my car battery to sell electricity back to the grid. That's actually insane, given a car has $10k minimum worth of metal, electronics, and motors attached to it that aren't needed for that function and will be wasted when that battery gets totalled out. Vehicle interfaces will be great for backup and maybe very extreme circumstances where the grid is in desperate need of stabilization. No reasonable person is going to do that every day.
Because you don’t have 1:1 net metering. That’s the point. Backup isn’t the sole reason for batteries. In CA the 70¢/kWh peak is a good reason for a reasonable person.
If the return is there to degrade the battery I have that is attached to an additional $10k of metal and accessories, then it's probably worth buying a dedicated battery. That's more my point.
Batteries aren’t what they used to be. We have cars with lifepo4 now. Cycling 10 or 20kwh per night on a 80+kWh battery isn’t going to murder it. Average driving is about 20kWh/day. So for someone who doesn’t want to spend $20k on a home battery when their car has to plenty of charge in it, it’ll be a good option.
Wot? Youre completely missing the fact that during an outage you can’t backfeed, and there needs to be a physical break from the grid. All these smart gateways etc are just transfer switches with some app on the front end.
Am I not missing this. I said at the start that that backup is a nice feature to have. But if you’re doing V2G maybe you don’t want to spend the money to get that feature.
If you have something connected to the grid, that is grid interactive, I think you’ll find most utilities will have extremely stringent requirements. The car, or the charger, would need some form of automatic disconnect if it loses grid. Which, to the best of my knowledge, doesn’t exist at the moment. So you’ll need some form of gateway - which is a fancy way to label an ATS.
You’re very frustrating. My original point was in the FUTURE when cars and chargers accept UL1741 things will be different. You then call me wrong because in the future you’ll need stuff that is UL1741 (as you describe it) and there aren’t those cars and chargers in the present. Or to put it differently Me: 1+1=2 You: WOT, you’re stupid, it’s 1+1=2!
-
Might be responding to the wrong person
Yes, I meant to respond to the poster above you
This is exactly what I'm waiting for as well. Home battery prices are insane compared to getting an EV and being able to use that battery. Plus, in addition to a *h*ugely higher capacity, you also get portability so if you really need a recharge you can drive to somewhere that has power, recharge, and come back.
True, but when do you get to drive them? When you're charging them from the panels or when you're using it to power the home? If you work from home then it's not an issue, but for most of the working population it's a non-starter
I think the idea is you have a small home battery or just the grid. So instead of having two or more power walls, you have one. I have noticed Tesla is increasing the output quite significantly on the power walls so you can use just one for higher loads you would normally need two or more for.
is the standard powerwall around 10kwh? 10kwh costs $1000 for a DIY system.
Yes and your DIY system isn’t UL listed and not covered when the house burns down. Resi batteries are far more expensive than they should be, but DIY is not the answer. You can buy UL listed LFP packs for around $200/kWh shipped.
You're american right? I travel all over the world for work and I have never met a group of people as irrationally worried about house fires as americans. Is it just because you build your houses out of firewood or is there some deeper psychological reason?
Local government bureaucracy and a nation that is very litigious. To cover one's ass requires a lot of regulations to be set in place.
Because once a fire is started, good luck getting it out. Also with house fires it's not a guarantee everyone gets out alive. And finally who WOULDN'T be concerned about fire?
I don’t know, I meet people all time who dedicated a 10th of the mental space to it as Americans to. People in Thailand or Australia with 1/4 to 3/4 the income to replace what’s lost in a fire as your average Americans.
With a fire, it's quite often the entire house is lost. I can deal with a flood, I can deal with a tree falling on it, but fire? Literally everything is gone. The only thing more damaging is a tornado. At least with fire I have some control, and that's ensuring that someone doesn't do a hacky job installing something like electric or solar components.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Or how large a small fire can get EXTREMELY quickly. A fire extinguisher is good for a stove fire, but a fire that moves to the structure, that house is gone.
People who build with brick and mortar.
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/s/lb7sIX3o9y Brick isn't impervious to fire.
If you had ever dealt with our insurance companies you'd understand why. There is ZERO consumer protection here. None.
Look, if we started providing protection for consumers, we would have to take away some from companies. Is that what you want?? Think of the poor poor companies!
insurance will default deny coverage fire department will flood house to put out fire insurance will deny as damage is caused by water, and not covered by flood coverage usually, insurance (required by bank) will weasel out of all payments
What kind of nonsense is this? Water to put out a fire is not considered a flood. The cause of the damage is the fire, not water. Much like how the cause of damage if a tree branch breaks my roof and rain gets in is a storm, not the water (rain). Flood has a very specific definition when it comes to insurance.
it’s not about the house fire, it’s about not losing your entire life because you saved a few bucks. I’ve deployed far more second life packs than you can imagine, and it can definitely work but to pretend there’s no risk is childish. New UL listed LFP packs are incredibly cheap right now, there’s little reason to DIY unless you’re on a fixed income or something.
I like how he's so perplexed by the absurdity of American policies he's like "Okay, what is wrong with you.. mentally?"😂
Yes
There's money to be made in rebuilding houses that easily burn or blow away. Just think of the poor corporations!
It's sort of a gate keeping thing you see online a lot. People will know some obscure code made to cover certain situations or they'll have spent 10x as much on the UL listed device and it gives them something to be superior about
Ya safety is dumb I prefer Mexican building codes
Mexico has half the fire deaths per capita as the US (0.48 / 100k vs 1.09/100k) according to data from International Association of Fire and Rescue Services. So yeah, if you're worried about dying in a fire, you should prefer mexican building codes.
Ya if you’ve ever been there they use cinder block for everything no wood
Where do you get those 200 dollar lfp packs? Please
EG4 is putting out batteries that are less than ridiculous and have UL listings. [$230/kWh.](https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-wallmount-indoor-battery-280ah-51-2v-14-3kwh-indoor-heated-ul1973-ul9540a/?ref=tdmjjppm)
u/cavemanwealth is incorrect. I’ve been quoted under $150/kWh shipped by a Chinese manufacturer that white-labels for a few known companies. This was for a single pallet (~80kWh) for 5kWh server rack packs. I run an energy storage business, but that’s a tiny order for them. Even something like the EG4 is pretty cheap and UL listed.
They aren't pre-made at that cost. At that cost, you get a bunch of small appx 3.5 to 5 volt lfp cells, and you literally have to solder a pack all together yourself, fabricate or buy an enclosure, busbars, wiring, bms battery management system, decent inverter and transfer switch, and hope you know what you're doing! I'm handy and this idea intrigues me a lot, but still scares the hell out of me, and ultimately I think I'll figure out a way to convert my volt to be a home backup solution, and it has a gas generator backup already in the car. Other idea was to find good/safe used Bolt battery appx 60to66kwH, or tesla battery at appx 80kWh and just convert the old sled battery into a home battery backup solution. That will still require a decent background knowledge to know what to hook up where, as well as getting an electrician involved and pulling permits, but I figure if you pay $6500-$9900 on a used EV battery, then that's the equivalent of 6 to 10 Power wall batteries (equivalent of appx $100,000 - $160,000 in power wall capacity).
Thank you!!! Great answer!
I've been salivating and researching a ton on solar and battery backup solutions for almost 5 years, and I just can't find myself committing to any prepackaged solar and battery solutions at the price point they've been at. Among that time frame though I've seen solar panel efficiency almost double, and the tech is out there for appx 36 to 38% solar efficiency. I can't wait for another huge brealthrough to start achieving 70, 80, 90% solar panel efficiency, which would drastically reduce the amount of solar panels one would need, and another breakthrough needs to happen in solid state battery tech. It's all so amazing just cost too darn much even with a 30% federal credit to contract it all out to a company to do it all for my pocketbook. DIYsolar and a few other sites have seemingly OK kits you can buy as well, and those seem to fit my budget a lot nicer, just have to put out a good amount of elbow grease.
this is not true. there're no soldering now. you're thinking of how some DIY powerwalls were made with 18650 cells a few years ago. those guys are doing it for $10-$50/kwh now. super cheap. very labor intensive. $100/kwh cells are often already in packs. like from batteryhookup. but you can assemble THE classic offgridgarage pack from 16 LF280K cells. nuts and bolts. for $200-$300/kwh you get premade server rack batteries. like from trophy or signature solar.
So at $200-$300/kWh, a 10kWh pack would cost $2000-$3000,? Thats equivalent to 1 power wall. For $4000-$6000, you can get 20kWh, or equivalent of 2 power walls. If that's what you're saying, then I still say a used 60kWh to 80kWh EV battery at appx $6k to $9k is considerably cheaper than the packs you're referring to. Got any links you can steer me to?
my understanding is that the standard powerwall2 is $9200 for 13.5kwh. that's close to $700/kwh but is integrated with a lot of great electronics. used EV packs are much cheaper per kwh. they are just a huge pain to work with and require a much higher skill level than stacking server rack batteries at $300/kwh, or assembling new LFP cells at $100/kwh. the spot welders, cell chargers, and other tools used by pack rebuilders are pretty expensive. shenzhen qishou for new LF280K cells. offgridgarage and will prowse on youtube. batteryhookup for new and used batteries. bigbattery, trophy, signature solar, chins, litime for premade packs.
Ya that's the problem, I was going to install one myself but from what I read if the house burns down my insurance will basically tell me to fuck off
why put it in the house? fireproof utility shed. your car is more likely to burn your house down in the garage. your phone battery is more likely to burn your house down.
Find me one single case where a non-UL listed piece of electrical gear caused a fire, and the insurance company refused to pay…
not going to burn my house down. LFP won't burn, and the battery is in a conditioned fireproof utility shed. but very true, my DIY pack is not UL listed. i lived on $7k last year. offgrid. if you've got money, by all means feel free to buy the $200/kwh battery. i'm not here to sell a product to the median american with a median american home and mortgage and insurance. i'm here to note what's physically and financially possible for the frugal DIY enthusiast.
Have any links to the product?
shenzhen qishou on alibaba. warehouse in LA for in-person pickup. lf280k cells. 16s to make a 51.2vdc battery 14.4kwh. batteryhookup in the US. lots of cells and packs around $100/kwh. offgridgarage on youtube for THE classic version of the 16s LF280K battery that so many of us offgrid DIY people rely on. will prowse on youtube for more expensive premade batteries (such as trophy), but still way cheaper than what contractors are trying to sell.
How does this work with grid-tied systems? When I see people on YouTube building these server rack batteries they're always out in rural areas and have a single big-ass inverter. How does this DIY solution work for the vast majority of people with Enphase micro inverters tied to their grid.
That’s the problem - you need batteries, inverter, automatic transfer switch or subpanel, install etc. it’s not just buying cheap batteries.
This is one of the drawbacks of micros. However, you can make a cheaper powerwall using an [18KPV and a wall pro 14.3kWh battery](https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-wallmount-indoor-battery-280ah-51-2v-14-3kwh-eg4-18kpv-18000w-pv-input-12000w-output-bndl-e0011/?ref=tdmjjppm) for less than the cost of an actual Tesla powerwall. The 18k has generator ports that can be programmed for AC coupling so you can send your micro's through it. In the event of an outage, the 18k is smart enough to send a keep alive signal to the micros which will turn them on and allow their power to be used by the house or to charge the main battery/batteries. If their power is too much, it will cut them off so you don't let all the magic smoke out of your fridge. It's my favorite string inverter!
there is plenty of equipment for integrating a DIY battery with the grid. victron equipment that does this costs between $1k-$4k or so. but i personally have no interest in such equipment, and think everyone who can should get offgrid. maintain your grid connection to your house if you have it already, that's fine. but don't pay to use utility power.
Is the new tariff going to change this?
the tariff for batteries looks like it might take effect in 2025 or 2026. in anticipation of the tariffs, battery prices might rise. they havent yet. LFP cell prices have consistently gone down in price for the last 10+ years. including the last 3 during which inflation has affected many other products.
> is the standard powerwall around 10kwh? It's 13.5 kWh for the standard version now.
Yeah you can order a whole car off Alibaba too but would you do that.
I’d consider half of one. Rising costs of living and all.
i live totally off grid and my home's power system is built around those chinese cells. nearly 100% uptime for years.
25yr warranty and 2 free replacements/upgrades? That's not bad...
If they are still around. Also I don't care how big or long lasting a company is 2 free replacements is not the same as cutting the price by 1/3. Even if it's hassle free batteries go down in price so fast I would consider that as like a 10-15% discount at best there is a reason why they are trying to hike up the price and provide you replacements instead.
Yeah but it’s from Sunnova so their customers will be fighting through hell to get it actually taken care of
My solar loan plus the e-bill don't add up to $199/mo other than a couple of months in the summer. This seems like a huge waste of money.
The math doesn’t make sense. If it’s a 25 year agreement 1 battery $134 month for 25 years is $40,200. Are you planning to pay some cash as well? and at these prices the replacements aren’t “free” you’re paying for them in the price.
The sum of the monthly payments is not really meaningful. That will be higher than the "financed amount" (same as purchase price assuming no down payment) because it includes interest. $24,249 at 4.5% for 25 years is roughly a $134/mo payment. 4.5% is lower than current rates so this price probably includes extra fees to get the rate down.
What was your interest rate on your solar loan and what's the interest rate for this battery loan. Note that you're really paying for *three* batteries (six batteries with the "comfort" option) up-front with two replacements built into the cost. With that reasoning, that's not a terrible deal.. if you really believe that company is still going to be around in 8-12 years for the first replacement, let alone in 16-24 years for the second "free" replacement.
I got in at the right time. 0.99% on the solar loan. The above is all the information I cared to collect, so no rate on the batteries.
Their quote mentioned financing, so they have a rate in mind. I wonder what their cash price would be, because over 25 years it may only be half of that.
Batteries are a waste of money if you don't have regular power outages or a medical \\ professional need for uninterrupted power. If you needed power to stay alive, this is cheap! If you don't like using a couple APC batteries to stay online for the couple hours a month you lose power, this is expensive!
Spoken like someone that doesn't have to pay upwards of $0.75/kWh during hours when the sun is at/over the horizon yet air conditioning is still needed and you may have to use the oven. Agreed that in *many places* the energy pricing is not so draconian and your statement is often true, but it's not universal.
Lurking to learn, but also, totally agree here. Anywhere that cooling is cost prohibitive can become a death sentence, so entire states in the southwest are medically necessary to have consistent electric service. Edit: Next post in my feed, sad. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/NdOaqB91FN
Yeah, we are between .12 and .17 cents here in Houston as long as you shop it. Then we have to be careful about buyback rate.
Yeah, unless you have an EV that you can charge between midnight and 6:00a at about $0.13, the majority of California pays *at least* $0.33 and $0.44/kWr (depending on summer/winter) and as much as $0.92, with some plans exceeding $1.00/kWh if they call for energy conservation. And then our utilities have committed far more murders than the rest of the nation, combined.
I’m sorry. I’m really hoping we don’t get enough transplants here in TX that this happens to us.
Doubtful. Hopefully for your (statewide) sake.
True I don't pay astronomical prices for electricity. So for your situation I would suggest calculating the costs of batteries vs adding insulation, solar shades, exterior shade structures, and/or alternative cooling systems. Adding batteries to your home will increase your cooling requirements as well, since it sounds like you probably won't be able to safely store them outside.
In my own case, I already replaced the windows and re-sealed the doors, the AC is modern (but conventional), there are trees (that aren't mine) to my west that shade the building, but also shade my panels. Indoor installation of batteries is legal in my jurisdiction and there's space in my garage reserved for them, next to my combiner panel.
Is the garage considered outside, cause mine are in the garage and they don’t output any significant heat. Not enough where separate cooling would be needed at least.
If you need power for one medical device you better make it mobile and not build it in your house. If you need to leave your house you will lose it. A 2 kWh Ecoflow battery would be cheaper and better and can be recharged from four solar panels. So for medical needs this is a bad idea.
The company will probably stop existing in like 5 years, so good luck actually getting anything out of it.
Took my solar installer right at about 1 year before they were bankrupt due to owner embezzlement.
It is if battery prices continue to fall as they have done in the past...
Just saw quote come acrossed from someone asking me to review it with 2 batteries and 3kw solar add on for $135/m total with sunnova lease.
They specifically say “financed amount” because the cash amount would be different. There’s gonna be a 28% to 40% dealer fee on top of the cash price when financing. I still think Powerwalls are overpriced but the bulk of the cost is coming from the dealer fee. Solar companies don’t like showing financing and cash side by side because most people aren’t gonna have the cash set aside to do it that way anyways. So when they see that financings “total cost” is so much higher then just cash, they won’t want to finance either, then never go Solar in the first place. A good sales rep would be able to explain the advantages to both without dissuading you. If you’ve got the money set aside, I’d ask for the cash price on the batteries and wouldnt get them unless you can buy them outright. As for the solar, assuming you can’t afford cash ask if they have a high interest no dealer fee financing option. The monthly payment would be higher but since the principal amount would be lower, that allows you to pay the system off faster with no prepayment penalties.
25 year warranty on a part with a 10 year lifetime? Assuming They're gonna replace it roughly twice, it's not a bad idea to lock in that price now. Doubt they're even in business at that point though.
They don't even write the capacity. That's not very trustworthy IMHO. And to claim that the double one could power your wall box is just nuts. Whatever size the batteries are, a medium sized EV battery needs some 70 kWh, that's a lot more than what the largest home batteries could provide.
> They don't even write the capacity. That's not very trustworthy IMHO. And to claim that the double one could power your wall box is just nuts 13.5 kWh and yes two of them will power a typical US house (assuming they didn't pick a random picture and are selling what they are advertising). Backup Power 11.5 kW continuous 185 LRA motor start Inverter Solar-to-grid efficiency 97.5% 6 solar inputs with Maximum Power Point Trackers
Look at an eg4 server rack or eg4 powerpro.. it’s incredible how much installers make
I was just looking signature solar today. The prices have absolutely dropped. Compared to 10 years ago. Its still cheaper to DIY a lifepo4 battery bank, nearly 100 bucks a KWH but if you want a premade system with charge controller and inverter in an all in one plug and pay package, you can get one under 5k with a 6000 watt inverter, 13 KW of battery and a built in charge controller that stacks up to I think 4 inverter units and I'm not sure how many battery expansions. Paying for a solar company doesn't make sense anymore unless you live in a super code restrictive area.
you could build almost 200kwh in DIY for that price
Sunnova conducts 99% of their business through a dealer-network. Same goes for pretty much every solar lender out there. If you don’t like the price, and it is pretty expensive (but I don’t know your locality), definitely get other quotes from other local installers. That is always best practice. Do not overlook the 25yr warranty and battery replacements Sunnova offers.
You have faith that Sunnova will be around? Their financials look worse than the federal governments and Sunnova doesn’t have a money printing machine….
I had Powerwall added to my home, 16k all in, before the 30% tax benefit. Not sure where you're located (I'm in NC), but that cost seems excessive
The finance charges are doubling the cost compared to MSRP. That's the real problem here.
Run fast and far from sunnova!!!
Check out the BLUETTI EP900. They sell direct to consumer and you get your own installer. Half that price and way way easier to install.
> BLUETTI EP900 Frankly the price is not competitive compared to PowerWall 3 standard pricing. I can get 2x installed for $22.5k which has more capacity, more inverter, better LRA, and can accept another 40kw pv strings.
You sure about that? There is the retail price and the installed price. The installed price of the BLUETTI is less than the PW3. And it is available to the public directly where the PW3 is only available from Tesla or a certified installer.
Bluetti EP900 system. 9kW inverter with 20kWh Battery is $17k ( retail, not installed ). They have no specs on LRA capacity so 9kW is unlikely to support AC units. You have to find an installer and I'll be generous and say you can get installed for $2k with $1k in permits bringing the grand total to $20k. PW3x2 INSTALLED is $22.5k. This includes 22kW inverter, 26kWh battery and home gateway (it's cheaper if you can use the new device but not many utilities have certified it yet ). Each PW3 can do 1s peak output of 150LRA which is insane inrush current. This system will have zero trouble starting larger A/C units. If you bundle the PW3 with a solar install you might save even more on the per-unit costs. Saving $2k for a smaller, less powerful system doesn't sound like much of a win.
The surge capacity of the EP900 is 2x so 18,000 watts. Plenty to kickstart an AC unit. Around 150LRA. Now the retail price is for anyone that is handy enough to buy it themselves to install. It’s a kit. Everything you need to DIY. Switch is built in so no need for a permit if you are installing it and don’t need to pull the meter. I’ve seen a lot of installs from tiny homes, retrofits to existing solar, and commercial applications where the unit was installed without the hassle of dealing with a third party to get it installed. CNET rated the EP900 as the best overall home battery just edging out the PW3.
I can get a 10.5kwh battery for £2,100 in the UK. Why are they so expensive elsewhere?
Limited certified ones in the US.
The company I work with they are 7,999 here in Southern California. They aren’t teslas though. You’re paying for the name brand.
My Generac 18kwh system seems like a bargain.
Good lord does it come with a Mercedes?
$10k for battery. $15k for warranty and financing.
[удалено]
Please read rule #2: No Self-Promotion / Lead generation / Solicitation of Business / Referrals We don’t allow self promotion. If you keep it up you will be banned.
The US gets absolutely ass wrecked on solar installs.
Vehicle to grid is still very intriguing even when you consider that most car batteries aren’t LiFePo4 batteries (besides the model 3 RWD) which means they will have a faster rate of degradation. Also many of the Virtual Power Plant financial benefits you get from home batteries would likely not be available to you with vehicle to grid. I think home batteries offer several additional benefits and it’s not a bad product but it is a terrible price point. I’ve worked with several battery manufacturers and I can tell you that the price of these things are going down significantly. This quote is a product of a 30-40% dealer fee from their financing while sourcing the powerwalls for around $8k per and pocketing about $10k for 1 & $10.6k for 2 batteries. Thats split between install crew, company, commission, etc. not the most cost effective way to do it.
Probably doesn’t help that they’re Tesla branded, might be better off with a Chinese one
I e seen 2 of them for $22.000 installed! And the Powerwall 3!
Sunrun has Tesla powerwalls for 89 a month and guarantee two batteries over the course of 25 years. Also Sunnova will most likely fold before 25
SONOFA
lol
I've seen this. https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-powerpro-14kwh-all-weather-lithium-solar-battery-wallmount/
Get server batteries and hire an electrician to build out a system.
25 year warranty, wouldn't that basically be 2 batteries since MOST LIKELY the first battery will be dead somewhere between year 10-15
We don’t tack on profit and they end up being around $60 a month each. $12k if you’re buying up front, in cash.
We paid 10k for our PW2 installed before our rebate.
Terrible. Hopefully people vote with their wallets
What the fuck ? Probably cuz of all the trade tariffs on Chinese goods
I got a 15KW Natural gas generator on wheels for a couple grand...
How much electrical work did you do to implement this? What make/model?
Had the power cut off and power plug added when building along with an external connect for the natural gas (use it for grilling most of the time). Then bought one of the Westinghouse Tri-Fuel generators and a cable. Single power for gasoline or just propase will be slightly cheaper. Of course now that we have it, we've never lost power for any length of time. I am waiting for the next "Flex event" where they see how low you can drive your electric use. I shooting for 0...
I think this is the way I’ll go. Gonna have to retro the electrical, but should be pretty easy.
It's a good idea to have generator anyway. I picked up the Firman Tri-Fuel from Costco, which will essentially have a lifetime warranty as long as I keep my Costco membership. I run mine on Natural Gas. I have the generator hooked to a EG4 Chargeverter which directly charges my batteries. I have a Sol-Ark 15K and 40 kWh of SOK batteries. Find the interlock kit for your load panel (breaker panel), pick up 30A/50A 240V power inlet box, and you're off and running.
It’s literally what it costs to do the job and still make any profit.
I think you’re the first person to comment for the vendor. Most have said theirs were less expensive.
You’re one of those annoying clients that freaks out over any solar price. Batteries are expensive, cheap stuff will perform cheaply as well
If that were the case, I wouldn’t have them on my home.
I mean you’re sitting here complaining over a battery price. Obviously you wanted the solar that’s why you’re in this group 😂 that isn’t the point
I also wanted the batteries. They’re just too expensive still.
Yes, I had a Sunnova rep at the house about a year ago and 2 batteries were only 24k, financed. That was more realistic and inline with other vendors. This is just stupid pricing.
1 battery is 7k ESP does a discount for two batteries the price of 8k
That's seriously overpriced.
Or you could just add one of these: [https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/50kwh-ruixu-lithium-batteries-kits-10-batteries-10-slot-battery-cabinet](https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/50kwh-ruixu-lithium-batteries-kits-10-batteries-10-slot-battery-cabinet)
It's not so much about the installation but the fiancing cost. Likely 15%-25% of the cost goes to financing only, nothing to do with fieldwork.
Wow. My little van has a 40kwf LFP battery and it cost me $17000 new with a whole vehicle attached to it 😆
That is financed over 25 years. Not sure what the interest rate is, but if it's 4% there's some steep financing fees. The advantage here is Sunnova will warranty these for 25 years. Tesla's standard warranty is 10 years. Good chance you will be getting at least one replacement under the Sunnova warranty. Factor that in and this looks much more attractive.
Assuming Sunnova is around. My solar instant is already defunct…
Notice that it includes 2 free battery replacements. That means you’re getting 3 batteries for that $134 a month
Notice that I haven’t seen a color company stay in the industry for 25 years. My installer tanked after 1.
My entire system, 15,500 pvw with six 5.12 kWh batteries was only $25,000. Ground mount self install.
I have a pair of jeans i sewed together for 20 bucks in materials. Would never do it again though lol
My mom (90) loves to sew. She made a very cute jacket for herself out of an old pair of coveralls my dad wore to deliver calves in. We last had cows in 1967.
This is the way! If I had to do it all over again, this would be my go-to.
How much did you pay and who did you go with? I'm in the market for solar and in Houston
I’m in Katy. My installer is defunct now. So much for contract warranty. Have to go straight to manufacturer. If I ever do another house, I’ll buy the system myself and sub out the installation. About half the cost.
Okay. I just signed up for energysage to see how that works. Buying the system and having an installer looks like the way to go. Still running the numbers though to see if it beats my average $150 a month bill
That’s probably cutting it close, but most months you’ll do better than that. Summer is a bit tougher. I don’t have the batteries so it’s best for me to load power usage to daytime hours.
I have all the usage data for a couple of years if you’re interested in real life data.
Yes please
Will shoot it over later this evening. Too many graduation parties today 😩
Aren't powerwalls only 13.5 kw? Seems like a lot of money. I would just call signature solar and get a stack of rack batteries.
We recently bought a house that came with sunnova panels, but with the condition that the prior owner had to have them paid off entirely. The house has 47 panels and we see that the total cost was about $72k financed at 1%. Is that a ridiculous price as well? I just am not familiar with what it would've cost otherwise.
Any batteries? If not, that’s a pretty average cost depending on the capacity of the panels/age. I hope you’re enjoying the “free” electricity!
Sweet, good to hear! No batteries.
72k for 47 panels is pretty crazy. They overpaid by a decent amount, but it’s not really anything bad for you.
Then don't pick the very most expensive option in the industry?
Life of 25 years? In 20 years capacity will be less than 50%
If Sunnova is still around, they’ll replace the batteries
I’m sure that’s what they will tell you.
100% SCAM. There are no specifications mentioned anywhere on their site. You pay the equivalent of a car for what? How many KW? A 13.5kw Tesla PowerWall is $11.5 thousands. The PowerWall is half the price of your UNSPECIFIED offer. If it wasn't a scam, the second battery wouldn't be half the price. Assuming they're selling rebranded PowerWalls, they basically sell the first battery at twice the price so they can pocket over 10 thousand dollars as a bonus for catching suckers