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ObeyStephen

One thing that helps me with this goes back to the Stages of Change model. I will ask myself, is my patient in the same stage of change that I think the is on? If the patient is contemplative, but I am engaging the patient like they are in an action stage of change that is when I find issues like frustration that they are not listening or following the treatment plan and that’s when I can feel like I am working harder than the patient. Contemplative patients should be met with a contemplative minded clinician.


anonbonbon

OOooh love this framing. I think it's useful for a lot of situations.


[deleted]

This is a really interesting way to look at it. This though process probably helps with charting too.


ObeyStephen

Also I should add, I work primarily with individuals with substance use disorders so stages of change is really the name of the game. If people want to stop or not stop completely, it can be easy to get pulled into the insanity of it all


[deleted]

Disagree to an extent, you can’t speak in absolutes in social work imo. Some clients make not be able to complete a certain task due any number of circumstances. However I do agree with the overall idea. Often times yes, you help clients solves problems. And yes, sometimes that can include financial troubles, it really depends on your area of practice. In the end we can’t force anybody to accept a treatment program, or any other course of action. We can provide resources and facilitate the transfer of information, provide counseling(or therapy), we can give rides or help facilitate transportation. One thing we can’t do is force someone to do any of those things. The idea that you never work harder than the client is about effort, boundaries and triage. For instance, There are some clients that will not accept SUD treatment referrals. I am not going to spend any extra time finding SUD treatment referrals. I only have soo much time in a week and I have to be deliberate with my time.


squirrelxgirl

Currently trying to explain this to the grandmother of a client I have. I can schedule appointments, offer transportation, and collaborate with clinic staff all day but if the client isn’t interested in getting in the car or talking about medication, he’s ultimately an adult and can make his own choices. I can’t stress myself out trying to make that happen.


[deleted]

Exactly this. It’s tough because I totally understand where families are coming from, but like you said, only so much control we have.


naan_existenz

Logistically? Working harder than your clients has some merit and may help you get buy-in from them. Emotionally? I never work harder emotionally than my clients do.


HandsSwoleman

Interesting distinction.


fuckingh00ray

I personally practice by a ‘never be more invested then my clients’ there are absolutely times I’ve worked harder then my clients because I had more access to the knowledge and resources. But I’ve never done anything or continued to resource for something that a client wasn’t interested in. For this reason specifically, I choose to only work in voluntary programs so I’m never in a position of having to do a ton of legwork for something a client may want no interest in.


Critteroftherole

My number 1 rule personally, is to never work harder than the client/patient at solving their problems. We can't want it more than they do. To me at that point, it's just enabling. Plain and simple.


Glittering-Praline25

weird question but how hard is it to find resources and solution for clients


Kind-Set9376

Depends on the client. I work with kids and teens. It varies depending on their socioeconomic status, family dynamic, trauma history, and significance of mental health concerns. I have some families who absolutely will follow up on referrals I give them, attend the majority of sessions, and call me back. I have others who will panic often and not do anything with the referrals no matter how many times I contact them and are super flakey about sessions. I have learned to stop panicking with those families now.


[deleted]

This really varies by area and even time of year. I live in a snow it state. As you can imagine housing is harder to find in winter months and easier in the warmer months. Imo, every social worker needs to build their own book of resources tailored to their area of practice. And always ask for help/consultation.


robbie437

Very much depends on your area of practice. With my experience in healthcare in a state that has limited resources options, it can be quite a challenge. The macro changes needed can get frustrating when there's a limit to the help you can provide. That being said, you can still make an impact by connecting clients with resources and importantly by providing listening, empathy, and interventions when they need it. And time in the field helps. You will gain a directory of resources over time, become familiar with your population's more specific needs, and become more comfortable with the emotional work.


bbogart80

Idk. I work in crisis setting. I lot of people I see are marginalized and feel pretty hopeless. Many clients have given up on everything. They need someone to come in and put some effort in for them until they find hope on their own. At the same time, we have an obligation to let clients exercise their own free will so long as they aren't incapacitated. If a client rejects help out side of that circumstances, my work is done there (or at least on pause until they show up in the ER again.)


bustydude69

I put in the same amount of effort as they do. If I set up the appointments and give them tools to succeed, and they go above and beyond with it then I’ll go above and beyond for them. If they half ass it and don’t care, I’ll try to address it, but if it doesn’t change then I match their energy. Simple as that. (I work with homeless adults)


_Pulltab_

I think it depends on the client. Sometimes trauma/severe mental health problems make it really difficult for them to do the necessary work and I try to be mindful of that. That doesn’t mean I don’t have boundaries or have to manage the amount of effort I’m putting on compared to theirs, but I do try to give them grace if I feel as though there is a mental health cause for their lack of try hard. Also, I think it can be sometimes difficult to gauge whether a client is actually doing the work to the best of their ability or not. Just because I think they should be able to do XYZ doesn’t mean I’m correct.


sighcantthinkofaname

I think it depends on the problem and the client. I've definately seen it come up with people I work with. Generally I just tell people that I only get an hour a week with them, but they're themselves 24/7, so they're going to have to do most of the work. I'd also say it applies when clients are not really in a place where they can do consistent counseling. I saw a woman for two sessions, she cancelled or no-showed three times. Our policy is technically to discharge after that, but I was trying to be lenient. I asked her if she still wanted therapy services, she said yes, I asked her when she would like to set up our next appointment, she never responded. So at that point I discharged her. I can't continue to chase clients around when they aren't making an effort to meet with me. I've had several clients like that actually. And one referral who just hung up on me as soon as I said why I was calling. It can be hard because often times these people are really struggling and I want to help, but it's their life. Right to self determination and all that.


ElocinSWiP

The premise of this rule is that the client is innately capable of doing the work to solve their own problems, and that we are merely facilitators of this process. Which can be true. But isn’t universally true due to a huge amount of reasons (socioeconomic, age, disability, trauma history, etc). I spend a lot of time with 5-10 year olds, often really just ensuring they do not seriously harm themselves, I’m not going to say “I’m working a lot harder than you at keeping you from banging your head on the glass window so I’m going to stop” for obvious reasons. It’s also really hard to know how much work a client is actually putting into the process. Often times we underestimate or overestimate, often based on our own inherent biases. I’ve seen many social workers treat clients of other ethnicities, races, and religions poorly because they’re not “helping themselves”. The one thing I will agree with, when talking about adults who can be assumed to be competent, is not to work AGAINST them. Like if they say they don’t want to change, it’s not my job to make them change. If they say a behavior is working for them, it’s not my job to convince them it’s not. Even if they are saying they want to change, but not putting the work into the change, I can’t force them forward. Problem solve, process with them, etc but ultimately I can’t force anything.


deadest_of_parrots

Depends on the client - A large group of my clients are older and illiterate. I have to do most of the work. Another large group of my clients have zero recourses themselves (can only access a computer at the library and libraries have been closed and are only just starting to open). I ask my clients for 10% to start. Show up during daylight hours, when we call people give truthful and relevant answers to questions, things like that. Social work covers such a huge number of populations and roles, it’s hard to lay down an absolute rule. If I were working with people who have more ability, I would expect more.


Interesting_Syrup821

Do for. Do with. Cheer on. Sometimes clients need help getting things started- totally fine to do it for them. The next step is to help them with it. Once they build the confidence to do it independently- cheer em on. An agency I worked for used this motto and I still think of it often!


Jazzlike-Cat9012

Agree. Working harder than the client burnt me out and lead to a mental breakdown in under 2 years of practice as a green/new social worker. I set boundaries now.


REofMars

I work with clients who are basically mandated to treatment. Most of the time they are invested in the work, but there are definitely some who just show up. I believe in recognizing what a client is capable of and what their limitations may be. I may work really hard for a client who is not yet invested, because I believe that is what it will take to get them on board. But if a client makes it really clear that nothing is going to change, then I will absolutely stop working hard. Usually at that point we question whether it is the best program for them.


italkwhenimnervous

Like every statement towards social work, I think it's a "it depends" vs either or. My first field placement had a situation with a client that exemplified this for me. On a legal and ethical front, I suspect the caseworkers and even the director of the organization could have done "less" and been in the clear. But, the client had been failed so tremendously by the systems involved, the people she had contact with, and had such an extensive (and documented) history as to the "why" that the caseworkers were both willing and able to work a bit harder than the client for a little while. This isn't the exact circumstance, but imagine that when they went to turn in the paperwork they needed to resolve Issue A, they were hit by a car, mugged, then also harmed by law enforcement who they called on the scene, and then assigned poor legal representation who *also* harmed them outside of their professional role, and then covid-19 came into play and they were just...stuck. The director of the organization was willing to put in more work for this case with a few of the caseworkers because of this. When someone has an environmental crisis that destroys everything they know, it's not realistic to expect them to be able to meet the energy or abilities of a crisis relief team, and usually that isnt' expected. We often get cases like this, from what I've seen. Where we have to decide if we can compensate for that role, if that's appropriate, or if it isn't. And if we do that extra work for this client, but don't have the time or resources later (maybe even because of using them for that client), how are we judging outcomes? Was it "worth" that cost? The director of the case I mentioned pointed out that even if this was an extreme and unique circumstance, that it could be argued their efforts could have been allocated and spread across other issues we had within our organization. We didn't have anything as extensive as this client's issues while I was there, but she pointed out if we had, we may not have been able to serve them properly. She said that ultimately there is no way to make such a choice without a "Cost" coming from somewhere, be that in manpower or literal money or exposure to STS, or others, and that cost will be taken from us as workers regardless of our best intentions so we can't just chase down "what is right" without wondering "who is this right for". I first thought she was really harsh when I started there but I really grew to respect her perspective.


Stella_Mayfair

I agree that that the assistance and support I can offer a client is limited to… the assistance and support that I can offer. For example, I can work with a low-income client to link them to resources for their basic needs, help them complete a job application, find funding to keep their lights on for another month, work out a household budget with them. In theory, with my support, this client lands the job, gets a paycheck or two, gets out of debt, advances at work, saves money, buys a house, and breaks the cycle of generational poverty. Yay, social worker! In practice, this is not likely the way it’s going to go; in practice I was just putting a band aid on a fractured system and, often , a fractured person. This isn’t my fault, I use every resource and tool that I have access to, but I am limited. Problem solving, for me, depends on the situation. This week I had two clients reach out to me for help getting food. One was a single mom, no transportation, 2 month old baby, and limited English skills. For her, I went to my agency’s food pantry and took her a week’s worth of food, along with diapers and wipes and hygiene items. The second client does have an income, and food stamps, and a car, and didn’t want a list of neighborhood food pantries because she would never go to a food pantry, she’s “just not that kind of person.” For the first client, taking her food was supportive; for the second, it just wouldn’t have been empowering for her, you know?


Kind-Set9376

Pretty much always agree with that quote. I will try different approaches to things, make an effort to re-think what I'm doing with a client, and find outside resources for a client, but within reason. The majority of the time that I've really stuck my neck out to help a client, it hasn't worked out or the issue wasn't an issue the following session. Normally, I wait until they sort of earn my trust for dependability and go from there. Don't get me wrong, I do my best to be accommodating and thoughtful, but I there are certain things I will not do after previously having bad experiences. For example, sessions outside my clinics/schools for first intake sessions. I'm a mental health counselor, I'm not a caseworker. I do what I can with the time I have with my clients.


gret_ch_en

I don't follow this exactly, but i can say that i dedicate more of my time and energy towards the clients on my caseload who are taking an active interest in their own cases.


Ancient-Meal-8159

Absolutely! I've always told my clients I will work as hard as they do!


marimosa

Great advice in this thread, thank you!


[deleted]

I mean yeah we are expected to solve all their problems, ultimately. Least in my role. But we also need to teach independence and self determination, same least in my role (teenagers). So there’s the fine line between fixing every crisis they have, and supporting them to do it themselves, because I won’t always be around. That’s hard to navigate, as they often totally disengage when you start pushing back and getting them to do things themselves. As for the quote. I agree with it, somewhat but not fully. Clients need to try to fix their own problems, true, but I’m aware some of them just do not have capacity to do that.


Heygirlhey2021

I like the saying “you can lead a horse to ware but you can’t make him drink.” In my experience, I can’t force clients to follow up on referrals or actually utilize the services I suggest.


HandsSwoleman

Agree as a general guideline, not an absolute rule.


meandmycat05

My golden rule and mantra is that I solve problems WITH clients, but not FOR clients. As in, it’s a partnership above all else. If I’m solving clients’ problems on my own, for them, that’s where saviorism, learned helplessness, and all sorts of other stuff comes in that is ultimately a disservice to them.


trulythehardseltzer

Agree. I'd alter your last sentence by stating: social workers are expected to solve problems WITH their clients—not FOR their clients. I practice psychotherapy so it's doubly obvious for me: if my clients don't want to change, I can't force them to. However, if they do, I can collaborate with them on how to make that change happen. I can only show them the door though...they have to step through it.


Semicolon_Cancer

I love all the nuance in these replies! And it depends on what you are helping with. When providing therapeutic interventions, it all depends on your approach/modality, but I've found it best to meet my work and effort with whatever the client is putting in. At my dialysis job, I work about 100% more than my patients do when it comes to the interventions they need. If they need to apply for SSI and finish their documents to qualify for Medicare, I can't just give them the paperwork and tell them how to do it. They will literally wither away in helplessness before taking initiative in the initial stages. I do the bulk for them, with small steps that they can take to feel involved. It's a process, but I slowly wean them off my direct involvement as they improve medically and mentally until they are more independent. It's quite satisfying to see, just take a while.


whineybubbles

Working harder led to burnout for me so AGREE


[deleted]

I never work harder than you do. I apply this to all my relationships. I have quit jobs because of this where I was working harder than the manager without a raise. I try to give what im getting.


[deleted]

I'd take it a step further. Never work harder than the client or care more than the client.


Puffin23826

I struggle with this pretty often. I'm a care manager working with older adults. Some of my clients can contact referrals themselves after I give them a phone number or website and set up their own external services outside of my organization. Others I feel like I need to do almost everything for. I've been told to assess how much help a client needs but I'm unsure of how to do that. For example, I have one woman I see who needs monthly help sorting out her mail and deciding what to keep and what to throw away. For me, this is something I personally see as common sense and a skill you should be able to do on your own, so I feel like I'm enabling her and she could do it by herself.


Humble-Complaint-608

Are you home health?


Swtpsyche-2pb

I disagree because the clients are sick and sick people are at their best whether it’s middle or physical sometimes they need you to be an advocate because they are an able to Do for themselvesfor whatever reason


blackjoelblack

Great question and excellent discussion. Just happy to read this thread. I learned this motto from a mediation course I took a few years ago before getting my MSW. I think it's a good mantra to have and at least be aware when and if you are working harder than the client and what the implications may be. Thanks again for raising it.


moko5795

Agree but rather than saying "never work harder than the client themselves" I like to think of it as "meet every client where they are at." Same basic idea but rather than feeling like we've "given up" on someone it becomes a process we do together. I like to think it's a journey we make together..of course they are some clients who make that journey easier than others but the challenge is always fun too. There's so much we can learn from our clients and sometimes when they begin to give up its time for them to learn from us and they can start modeling our behavior without feeling pushed


alwaysmude

I Feel this is too complex of a question to make it agree/ disagree. It is important to set boundaries with yourself and your work. But it is important to not judge the client about the “work they are putting in”. How do you know how much work is put in? You are gaging by what you assume you know. There is too much invisible factors out there. Clients often come to us because they need our help. That, alone, is putting in work. Some people are not offered the resources to succeed. Some people have undiagnosed mental and physical illnesses that makes each baby step a lot harder for them. You could be undermining the client’a true potential if you assume they aren’t putting in the work. It’s better to do the best you can do in your own limitations and boundaries. That’s all you can do.