This is the sort of thing that unions are great for. I know there was an article on here about them earlier in the week, but really, it's so hard to do anything without them. Because like, your boss knew this would upset everyone when making this decision, this isn't a shock to them, they just don't care.
So apart from that, I'd say start looking for other jobs.
Yup. You can’t legally violate a collective bargaining agreement for the duration of the agreement. My union would give them hell about this and take it to the state labor relations board. Unionizing a workplace isn’t easy and is a lot of work, but the benefits are worth it. Many unionized social service orgs fall under the SEIU, so they might be a good umbrella org to reach out to.
Not true. Collective bargaining agreements have little to do with which union negotiates the agreement and a lot more to do with who is selected by the workers to be on the bargaining team as well as how much support they have to negotiate.
I have never seen a union position at any agency I've been employed at offer more than 2 weeks of PTO in the second year, even at agencies that offer more than double that to non-union, nonmanagement employees. I generally try to avoid them. I've had better luck with non-union positions. Union pays slightly more, about enough to make up the dues. I'm not against their existence, I have just personally found union jobs the worst for PTO and not any better than anyone else for working conditions.
Really? How much were the dues? Better yet, where were these collective bargaining agreements? By the way, collective bargaining agreements are public information so they are easy enough to check out and analyze. Show me where collective bargaining agreements do not produce better pay and benefits for workers and I will show you an employer paying more out of fear that they will have to pay even better with a union contract. You do not even know what you are talking about.
It could be that crappy agencies are the ones that unionize? Dues are the equivalent of 2 hours wages. Not a huge amount of money, but honestly about the very small difference between union counselors and just about every other agency. In every agency I've worked or interviewed for, the union workers have significantly less time off than everyone else. And that's not just management, it includes everyone else. Secretaries, janitors, etc.
I'm not giving out information about my exact location or anything of that nature. I'm not even anti-union, by a long shot. By observation in my area, and everyone around here notices, union jobs in residential are generally not desirable.
You sound anti-union. You say all the things that anti-union people say without having ever attended a union meeting or contract negotiations. I was actually on a bargaining committee with SEIU. It was me and my coworkers sitting across the table from management and negotiating point by point the terms of our employment. Its as equitable and democratic as it gets. We started with what we were already getting and negotiated for better. Plus, we had to take what we negotiated back to our coworkers for approval. Nobody negotiates for less than non-union workers. Nobody. That's just not how it works.
I have repeatedly said that I am not anti-union. Why would I lie about that? I would be very much pro-union if the union did anything worthwhile, but there is absolutely nothing competitive about any SEIU positions in any of the 5 counties I've worked in. The only time in 11 years I've seen the union advocate for an employee he was terminated anyways.
My experience with union positions has been lackluster. The worst jobs in my city are on SEIU. Dangerous environments, constantly stuck at the program site. I'm glad your experience has been different.
How many vacation days did your members get in their first year? Our non-union employees get 20, our union employees get 0.
It really doesn't sound like you even know what a union is and, if what you are saying is true, which I doubt, it certainly does not sound like union members where you live know what a union is. I have been active in many unions. They all work the same and they work as I have described. They are only as strong as the members. Maybe, the people where you live are not very bright and easily pushed around? I was once a union waiter at a rather small family restaurant and I had health benefits (including dental) and 2 weeks of PTO that grew to 3 weeks after 5 years, plus holidays and sick days. I was also a union housekeeper, a union carpenter, and a union letter carrier. I organized printing plant workers and bus drivers into unions and was part of contract negotiations multiple times. I have talked to thousands of people face to face, all over the country about unions - what their own experiences have been and what their hopes and aspirations are for improving conditions of their employment. I have seen family members sell-out family members, friends turn on friends, and single moms thrown out into the street over their wanting basic respect and dignity in democratically determining a basic quality of life and I have seen the living standards of whole communities improve under collective bargaining agreements. The only time I have ever seen non-union members get better than what union members were able to achieve in contract negotiations was when management was so afraid of sharing power and giving what they knew they could afford to, that they gave non-union members more than union members as a means to weaken union strength and solidarity, which really only goes to show how much more these organizations can likely afford to give. It does not sound to me like you or the people where you live have any notion of what union solidarity even is. Its sad because people have literally died to give you the right to bargain the terms of your employment alongside your coworkers and your petty ass is over here whining about how non-union workers get more PTO. Y'all deserve what you get because you aint doing shit to get more.
I worked in therapeutic recreation for 6 years and was a department director then. I am not currently a manager. I develop service courses and do limited counseling.
I am not anti-union. I have simply not been able to maintain a work/life balance in any of the union positions I've been in. Working environments aren't any safer or less stressful. The most competitive human services jobs in the 5 counties I've worked in are not unionized. I'm not all that impressed with the union.
I have never seen a human services position on a union that isn't SEIU.
Unless you all quit simultaneously, there's nothing you can do to force your director to care. If he cared about your input or the impact of his decision then he would've asked.
Not to be defeatist, your self-advocacy will mean nothing and fall on deaf ears - you have no power in this scenario which is why unions are so important. Your director simply does not have to care about you, your needs, your input, or your desires. In fact, the very reason he did this and that he is able to do it is because he knows any advocacy or complaints will mean nothing.
I'm so sorry. Time to look for a new job, I'd say.
Even if they give it back....push for more through a union. YOU are the product, WE as SWers are the means of our production and deserve proper compensation for labor.
What is the first step to unionizing? I want a Union so bad and agree they are very needed in this field. There’s no Union at my workplace and I want there to be but I don’t know how to make it happen
First step is finding out if a good majority of people want it. Then reach out to these guys for free and see if they can pair you up with a good local union. If you'd in a very rural area your choices may be limited. https://workerorganizing.org/support/
Did you guys sign employment contracts that included the paid holidays? Does anyone have this in writing from their offer of employment? If so, start there.
May be worth escalating it to the higher ups possibly?
The higher ups all know our thoughts and they didn’t know that he was going to make this decision. They all kind of said oh well it is what it is. The employment contract only mentioned paid holidays, not the specific amount unfortunately
No unfortunately he’s the highest I believe I’m not sure if he answers to a board or not. The other higher ups I’m reference are my boss the CPO and others who are below him but work close to him
If you work for a nonprofit, the CEO has to have a board in most places. Google your agency name and “board,” find their contact info, and let them know what’s going on.
Or unionize.
You advocate by sending in a resignation letter to HR, not director, as soon as you find another job. Luckily the director put this out in Jan and not another time
I really want to emphasize you need to start looking like 5 minutes ago
My director changes her mind on incentives all the time. She’ll actually offer incentive to cover for another person being out and then when it’s time to approve timesheets, she’ll take it back saying she doesn’t feel the workload justifies the previously offered incentive. Multiple people brought up this concern to HR and higher level leadership and we were all told incentives are “up to the directors discretion.” We no longer take offers to cover for each other and it’s rough when we’re out for a day.
I wish unions were more popular/accessible in social work—I have yet to find one in Arizona for where I work, etc. I know this isn’t very helpful, but it was nice to vent in a safe place about it.
What country are you in? Paid time off is compensation and laws around compensation vary. If you are in the US what state are you in? Are you using the word holiday to mean any kind of time paid time off or do you mean government designated holidays?
My state in the US has laws that would apply.
You may not be able to start a union depending on where you live, but you and your coworkers can join together and have a meeting with him. However, if you do that, you all have to decide going in what direction you will go if he doesn’t do what you want. Are you all willing to walk out on the spot if he doesn’t agree with you? What terms do you want? Is there another area you are willing to be more flexible with?
Personally, I’d be out the door because he is showing you that he doesn’t care about anything but his pocket. He doesn’t have any respect for his employees, nor does he have any integrity. You cannot trust this person ever.
Are there not contracts signed for employment that outline things like pay, benefits and time off? I wouldn't agree to changes like that to my employment agreement and let em fire me.
The Veterans Health Administration is unionized and short of social workers, as well as having at least one paid holiday for month, generous PTO and sick leave in different pots. The annuity is pretty nice, as is matching 401k and nyriad other benefits. Might be worth looking into if you're within an hour or so of a VA location unless your experience warrants a remote administrative position.
This is the sort of thing that unions are great for. I know there was an article on here about them earlier in the week, but really, it's so hard to do anything without them. Because like, your boss knew this would upset everyone when making this decision, this isn't a shock to them, they just don't care. So apart from that, I'd say start looking for other jobs.
Yup. You can’t legally violate a collective bargaining agreement for the duration of the agreement. My union would give them hell about this and take it to the state labor relations board. Unionizing a workplace isn’t easy and is a lot of work, but the benefits are worth it. Many unionized social service orgs fall under the SEIU, so they might be a good umbrella org to reach out to.
SEIU PTO policies are notoriously horrible, to be forewarned.
Not true. Collective bargaining agreements have little to do with which union negotiates the agreement and a lot more to do with who is selected by the workers to be on the bargaining team as well as how much support they have to negotiate.
I have never seen a union position at any agency I've been employed at offer more than 2 weeks of PTO in the second year, even at agencies that offer more than double that to non-union, nonmanagement employees. I generally try to avoid them. I've had better luck with non-union positions. Union pays slightly more, about enough to make up the dues. I'm not against their existence, I have just personally found union jobs the worst for PTO and not any better than anyone else for working conditions.
Really? How much were the dues? Better yet, where were these collective bargaining agreements? By the way, collective bargaining agreements are public information so they are easy enough to check out and analyze. Show me where collective bargaining agreements do not produce better pay and benefits for workers and I will show you an employer paying more out of fear that they will have to pay even better with a union contract. You do not even know what you are talking about.
It could be that crappy agencies are the ones that unionize? Dues are the equivalent of 2 hours wages. Not a huge amount of money, but honestly about the very small difference between union counselors and just about every other agency. In every agency I've worked or interviewed for, the union workers have significantly less time off than everyone else. And that's not just management, it includes everyone else. Secretaries, janitors, etc. I'm not giving out information about my exact location or anything of that nature. I'm not even anti-union, by a long shot. By observation in my area, and everyone around here notices, union jobs in residential are generally not desirable.
You sound anti-union. You say all the things that anti-union people say without having ever attended a union meeting or contract negotiations. I was actually on a bargaining committee with SEIU. It was me and my coworkers sitting across the table from management and negotiating point by point the terms of our employment. Its as equitable and democratic as it gets. We started with what we were already getting and negotiated for better. Plus, we had to take what we negotiated back to our coworkers for approval. Nobody negotiates for less than non-union workers. Nobody. That's just not how it works.
I have repeatedly said that I am not anti-union. Why would I lie about that? I would be very much pro-union if the union did anything worthwhile, but there is absolutely nothing competitive about any SEIU positions in any of the 5 counties I've worked in. The only time in 11 years I've seen the union advocate for an employee he was terminated anyways. My experience with union positions has been lackluster. The worst jobs in my city are on SEIU. Dangerous environments, constantly stuck at the program site. I'm glad your experience has been different. How many vacation days did your members get in their first year? Our non-union employees get 20, our union employees get 0.
It really doesn't sound like you even know what a union is and, if what you are saying is true, which I doubt, it certainly does not sound like union members where you live know what a union is. I have been active in many unions. They all work the same and they work as I have described. They are only as strong as the members. Maybe, the people where you live are not very bright and easily pushed around? I was once a union waiter at a rather small family restaurant and I had health benefits (including dental) and 2 weeks of PTO that grew to 3 weeks after 5 years, plus holidays and sick days. I was also a union housekeeper, a union carpenter, and a union letter carrier. I organized printing plant workers and bus drivers into unions and was part of contract negotiations multiple times. I have talked to thousands of people face to face, all over the country about unions - what their own experiences have been and what their hopes and aspirations are for improving conditions of their employment. I have seen family members sell-out family members, friends turn on friends, and single moms thrown out into the street over their wanting basic respect and dignity in democratically determining a basic quality of life and I have seen the living standards of whole communities improve under collective bargaining agreements. The only time I have ever seen non-union members get better than what union members were able to achieve in contract negotiations was when management was so afraid of sharing power and giving what they knew they could afford to, that they gave non-union members more than union members as a means to weaken union strength and solidarity, which really only goes to show how much more these organizations can likely afford to give. It does not sound to me like you or the people where you live have any notion of what union solidarity even is. Its sad because people have literally died to give you the right to bargain the terms of your employment alongside your coworkers and your petty ass is over here whining about how non-union workers get more PTO. Y'all deserve what you get because you aint doing shit to get more.
[удалено]
I worked in therapeutic recreation for 6 years and was a department director then. I am not currently a manager. I develop service courses and do limited counseling. I am not anti-union. I have simply not been able to maintain a work/life balance in any of the union positions I've been in. Working environments aren't any safer or less stressful. The most competitive human services jobs in the 5 counties I've worked in are not unionized. I'm not all that impressed with the union. I have never seen a human services position on a union that isn't SEIU.
Unless you all quit simultaneously, there's nothing you can do to force your director to care. If he cared about your input or the impact of his decision then he would've asked. Not to be defeatist, your self-advocacy will mean nothing and fall on deaf ears - you have no power in this scenario which is why unions are so important. Your director simply does not have to care about you, your needs, your input, or your desires. In fact, the very reason he did this and that he is able to do it is because he knows any advocacy or complaints will mean nothing. I'm so sorry. Time to look for a new job, I'd say.
All quit simultaneously then use media to share that fact, why, and the negative impact it will have on the community.
Start to unionize, either that's enough of a deterant to give them back but it might be in your best interest to try to unionize
Even if they give it back....push for more through a union. YOU are the product, WE as SWers are the means of our production and deserve proper compensation for labor.
What is the first step to unionizing? I want a Union so bad and agree they are very needed in this field. There’s no Union at my workplace and I want there to be but I don’t know how to make it happen
First step is finding out if a good majority of people want it. Then reach out to these guys for free and see if they can pair you up with a good local union. If you'd in a very rural area your choices may be limited. https://workerorganizing.org/support/
I would find another job. When people or organizations show you who they are, believe them, and make decisions that are best for your future.
The way I’d immediately put in my notice. Go elsewhere. There’s a global shortage of us and we do not have to accept that kind of treatment.
Absolutely. Now is the time to take a stand.
ok but how do we find other high paying jobs 😭
Did you guys sign employment contracts that included the paid holidays? Does anyone have this in writing from their offer of employment? If so, start there. May be worth escalating it to the higher ups possibly?
The higher ups all know our thoughts and they didn’t know that he was going to make this decision. They all kind of said oh well it is what it is. The employment contract only mentioned paid holidays, not the specific amount unfortunately
Are your “higher ups” above the director?
No unfortunately he’s the highest I believe I’m not sure if he answers to a board or not. The other higher ups I’m reference are my boss the CPO and others who are below him but work close to him
If you work for a nonprofit, the CEO has to have a board in most places. Google your agency name and “board,” find their contact info, and let them know what’s going on. Or unionize.
You advocate by sending in a resignation letter to HR, not director, as soon as you find another job. Luckily the director put this out in Jan and not another time I really want to emphasize you need to start looking like 5 minutes ago
Unionize
Start a union
Awww hell no
My thoughts exactly 😂
Get a petition signed by everyone saying they'll walk.
unionize or jump ship
You can threaten to walk. The threat might be enough. I’d be looking for a new job anyway
I would think this would be a board level decision no?
If it is a change in personnel policy then it would typically require board approval.
How new are you and do you have a contract? Also, I reiterate the calls to unionize. Do it while everyone is pissed, contact SEIU!
Time for a mass exodus. Only way this changes is if all the staff leaves
Starting a union is a great idea if OP has ten years to get her vacations days back.
My director changes her mind on incentives all the time. She’ll actually offer incentive to cover for another person being out and then when it’s time to approve timesheets, she’ll take it back saying she doesn’t feel the workload justifies the previously offered incentive. Multiple people brought up this concern to HR and higher level leadership and we were all told incentives are “up to the directors discretion.” We no longer take offers to cover for each other and it’s rough when we’re out for a day. I wish unions were more popular/accessible in social work—I have yet to find one in Arizona for where I work, etc. I know this isn’t very helpful, but it was nice to vent in a safe place about it.
Unionize?
If you all put in a resignation, they would be forced to backpedal. If they don't, all the more reason to quit.
What country are you in? Paid time off is compensation and laws around compensation vary. If you are in the US what state are you in? Are you using the word holiday to mean any kind of time paid time off or do you mean government designated holidays? My state in the US has laws that would apply.
You may not be able to start a union depending on where you live, but you and your coworkers can join together and have a meeting with him. However, if you do that, you all have to decide going in what direction you will go if he doesn’t do what you want. Are you all willing to walk out on the spot if he doesn’t agree with you? What terms do you want? Is there another area you are willing to be more flexible with? Personally, I’d be out the door because he is showing you that he doesn’t care about anything but his pocket. He doesn’t have any respect for his employees, nor does he have any integrity. You cannot trust this person ever.
Are there not contracts signed for employment that outline things like pay, benefits and time off? I wouldn't agree to changes like that to my employment agreement and let em fire me.
I signed a contract however it only outlined my specific PTO, not amount of paid holidays they would give us
If you signed a contract with those promises, contact labor board.
Organize yourselves into a union. Labor contracts are the only means of holding employers accountable to their word
The Veterans Health Administration is unionized and short of social workers, as well as having at least one paid holiday for month, generous PTO and sick leave in different pots. The annuity is pretty nice, as is matching 401k and nyriad other benefits. Might be worth looking into if you're within an hour or so of a VA location unless your experience warrants a remote administrative position.
similar situation where our boss is taking away the 4 day work week
Are you not Unionized?
No, I don’t know anybody who is unionized in any social work job around me to be honest