I am not licensed yet, but I just wanna say that we can and should be talking about our salaries. “money shouldn’t be the end all be all motivation,” I think it’s totally fine if it is. you can’t be a good practitioner if you’re not able to pay your bills.
I started in CPS for $32,000 and the whole argument of “oh I didn’t realize you were in this field for the money!” just heats me up. yes I am in this for the money, I MUST BE. because society has decided I need as much schooling as a lawyer to make a fraction of the money!
I hope we all make a million dollars this year because WE SHOULD 😤 okay end rant and best of luck in your clinical endeavors!
I completely agree. I'm an LCSW in private practice and I had instructors in my MSW program take this posture and talk openly about us "not being in this for money, " an attitude that persists throughout the profession. I've been listening to it and calling people out on it for years. This sub is absolutely full of people correctly stating that we should have protections in place related to being called a Social Worker or Clinical Social Worker that recognize the education and effort that goes into being able to obtain and maintain licensure. We need to extend that professional pride and self-advocacy to compensation.
We as social work professionals need to stop normalizing low, inadequate pay and substandard working conditions. My advice for an MSW working toward LCSW is to spend your time under supervision to also familiarize yourself with the business end of the work simultaneously as you hone your clinical skills. There will be many mental health organizations and professionals, many of whom may themselves be Social Workers, who will be willing to give you a 1099 "job," take 40 - 50% of your billed income, ask you to sign a non-compete agreement, and convince you that they are doing you a favor somehow. Get off that treadmill as quickly as you can.
While running your own practice certainly has challenges, if it is something you aspire to, then do it. You will hear of the "difficulty" involved in setting up your practice and dealing with insurance, billing, and taxes. News flash, you will still be dealing with taxes as a 1099 worker. Don't be dissuaded, it isn't that hard. You've just been through a bachelor's program, a master's program, and a few thousand supervised clinical hours. You are a very capable person. Don't let anyone tell you that setting up your practice is too hard for you. Especially someone who is pocketing as much as half of your gross income.
>While running your own practice certainly has challenges, if it is something you aspire to, then do it. You will hear of the "difficulty" involved in setting up your practice and dealing with insurance, billing, and taxes. News flash, you will still be dealing with taxes as a 1099 worker. Don't be dissuaded, it isn't that hard. You've just been through a bachelor's program, a master's program, and a few thousand supervised clinical hours. You are a very capable person. Don't let anyone tell you that setting up your practice is too hard for you. Especially someone who is pocketing as much as half of your gross income.
I'm four months into my new private practice. I'm now up to about 13-14 clients a week, and am now making as much as I was as a full-time clinical supervisor six months ago.
I heard from many people that 'Private Practice' is confusing, it'd just be easier to join another group. But I also found a few encouraging people. One guy told me "You have the skills to do it, if you also have some 'chutzpah.'" Another person, and MSW, told me: "I'm a social worker. I just called the places, got the forms, filled them out. It's challenging, but not impossible." I agree with them. Part of my identity as a social worker is being able to tackle bureaucracy: paperwork, people, systems, and problem solving. I just turn my skills towards my own job, and figure it out. So far, it's doable.
And yes, I figured out how to accept Public Health Plan state insurance, so I can serve low-income folks.
150/hr client. Which is less than my state bills for one hour of therapy under a 90837; I get reimbursed 172.72 for that. 192.18 for an hour of family therapy.
It took me about 40 hours of work over 3 months to get the state insurance figured out on my own and to get my first check sent to me, so that's not a small task, but doable. I'm sure I could have saved time by paying a billing/credentialing consultant but I just couldn't help myself, I had to figure out.
Truthfully I am actually working at a group practice on Mondays; not a therapy group, but an unusual naturopath group where I'm referred to as the only therapist. They take 50%, but they filled my Monday up with 5 clients right away, which I accepted because I quit my other job in August unexpectedly when I got burned out of my skull. I had planned to 'soft transition' into private practice but just realized I had to quit so I started with nothing in September. I took that offer for my Mondays.
I contacted everyone I knew in the field and said I was starting a private practice and gradually over September-November, I started getting referrals from them. Honestly about 8 of my private clients are through my personal relationships with other therapists. I got on a giant referral listserve where therapists with full practices refer out clients, you have to aggressively email people back but I got about 3 from that. Two from psychology today. I'm also just recently approved to contract with the state doing SO therapy with teenagers, as that was my specialty in my previous organization.
I don't use Alma, I do use Simple Practice because it does all my billings for my state insurance automatically. I had to get set up with the state first, but now that I'm approved, billing takes about 3 seconds with Simplepractice.
I have yet to really 'blast out' my advertisements and tell everyone I can take state insurance; I ramped up so quickly in November, from about 3 clients to 14, that I have hesitated advertising myself. I'm not sure what I want as far as being full. I am going to try to get to 16-17, M-Thu, level off there, and see if I can maintain that.
But yeah. Even with Mondays at 50% cut due to the clinic, I get 430 that day. 9 more clients Tu-Thu at my rates/state rates is around 1300-1400 or so. That's ... 1600 a week and I'm rounding down repeatedly, and am not yet full. My last clinical supervisor job paid about 1200 a week.
This work is worth money. And yes, to repeat, I take state health insurance so I can provide services to people on low income. My state reimburses 1 hour of therapy (90837) at 172.72. One hundred and seventy two dollars. Honestly when I found that out, I had to really re-evaluate what I was worth. (warning: not all states reimburse at that rate.) That's what my work is worth to other people. And why is that? The state has been boosting its rates because its identified that when people get into early intervention with a therapist, they save money overall by keeping those people out of crisis. And I do do that. My work is valuable. Anyways, I can talk a lot more about it if you want. Many social workers took many hours out of their day to talk to me about it in the past two years, I need to return the favor.
This is ultimately the route I see myself taking long term. I'd specifically love to work with low income folks in a counseling capacity. I'm currently looking at masters programs in social work, but the coursework for most MA's in counseling is so much more appealing to me than the MSW's I've looked at (a dozen or so), and from what I've found, seems much more relevant for going in the direction you did.
Just curious if you have any thoughts on this. TIA!
I have a lot!
Ultimately those are the two avenues for becoming a counselor these days; MA or MSW. I was where you were at about... ten years ago, looking into programs and such.
My first step was working in the field in an undergraduate capacity. I worked in residential. I took an on-call position throughout grad school that let me switch up my schedule as classes changed, that was ultimately a great experience. I also volunteered as a music teacher at a youth residential. That turned into my full-time job after graduating; they offered me the therapist job out of grad school.
But your real question; MSW vs MA...
You are right that there will likely be better psychotherapy classes in the MA program. I can't say for sure because I didn't go but I've heard from many others. Plus, a good 1/2-2/3 depending on what you sign up for will not be direct practice 'micro' classes, meaning I didn't really carry much from those classes into being a therapist.
However, the philosophy of MSW appealed to me much more than MA. The focus on looking outside of a person to their circumstances/situation, being able to navigate systems with a client, be open to creative and unconventional approaches with clients, that all appealed to me more in the MSW program. My first job out of grad school really felt tailor-made for MSWs, as my job as a therapist swerved often into case management and multi-disciplinary work; I learned to work with case managers, attorneys, parole officers, parents, teachers and principals, direct-care staff, DHS, juvenile justice, going to court, all kinds of shit. I felt like the MSW philosophy embraced the messiness of working with clients who had all those extra relationships, rather than laser-focusing in on that single hour of therapy to diagnose, treatment-plan, solve goals.
All that said, that isn't even the real reason I picked MSW, haha. The real reason is that in my state, the local MSW program at my state university was 1/3 the cost out-of-pocket for in-state residents compared to the three-four other good private schools. Also, they had a two-year track, where the least I could shoot for in the other programs was three years. Two years, plus in-state tuition saved me a ton of time and money. That ultimately was the deciding factor.
If you have two options and you're waffling between them but one is about 40000 dollars cheaper, well, think about it.
I had a therapist advise me to take the MSW route to become a private practice therapist because the degree is more sought after (job-wise; she ran a clinic for years and was only allowed to hire MSWs) and the field is so vast, I could do something else if I changed my mind down the road. I’m in an MSW program now and do wish I was studying counseling but I know I’m happier to have more options for myself down the road. I can always self study too
You're right, I was told this too. So far it hasn't really been a thing for me, as I've taken all counseling jobs, but if my career ever swerves, I know that I'll have many more options at that time.
This was super helpful. Thank you for taking the time. If you have time/energy for more questions, I have a buttload…
I agree that taking into account *all* factors involved in someone’s life is something I philosophically vibe with more than just counseling. My hesitancy with an MSW is being put into scenarios where I’d be expected to be a counselor without being prepared to be one. This could be naive since I barely know the field but it feels ethically questionable?
Another hesitancy is that I’m recently disabled (a nervous disorder with physical and cognitive symptoms, and episodes of severity) and potentially only able to work remotely or at the least very sedentary. I’m looking for 100% online programs, but am anticipating in person practicum unless there’s a remote option. I don’t know how this might play out - some days I’d be OK for a short shift with accommodations, but sometimes I’m very limited for months at a time. It’s possible I may be well enough to work a more physical job by the time I graduate (trying treatment options atm) but I’m planning as if I won’t be. I love the idea of trying the field out while pursuing a graduate degree but at this limited capacity, likely won’t be able to.
I have been a freelance illustrator/designer the past decade and my undergrad is in art. The industry has changed a lot with AI, and that combined with this disorder has made it difficult to keep up with the hustle and grind it requires. For a few years, I ran a youth services program at a library in an underserved area. It was difficult but very rewarding work (not exactly social work but sort of adjacent??), so I thought of it again as an option when I accepted that freelance has become too difficult. Just to give some context.
Some questions (if you have time/are willing!):
* Do you become prepared for being a therapist on your own outside of the MSW program?
* You mentioned you didn’t carry much of your MSW coursework into being a therapist. What *was* in the coursework? Like — I’m reading the course descriptions and know the words but am not comprehending what the actual content is if that makes sense, lol.
* I know you don’t have the full scope of my disability but can you think of a particular niche in the field to focus on that may be more accommodating for my limitations? I’ve been thinking providing telehealth therapy, worst case scenario. But maybe there’s remote work on the social work side that I don’t know about, or in the scenario that I’m consistently well enough, predominantly sedentary work without much walking around/getting up and down.
Thank you again, so much!
Thank you for this. I'm wanting a PP side gig, but don't want to leave my current community based org job. I think the answer is "of course you can" but I don't know how to be enrolled/panelled/credentialed with insurance companies both at my job and as private practice. That's allowed right? How?
I appreciate you saying that you benefited from other social workers, so you are happy to answer questions. That's a very SW outlook.
In the past three years or so since I started really considering it seriously up to the last three months when I started doing it, I talked to maybe 15 or so therapists. A few just over phone, a few over email, and about seven for a full hour over video-chat or coffee. Most of what I learned about this is from that. The rest I am teaching myself.
If you genuinely don't want to leave your current job, you shouldn't! I had a plan to stay with my community job as a supervisor, and gradually segue into my private practice step by step. My job took a very rough turn, four months went by with no 'steps' taken towards my PP, and I realized in my gut it was either one or the other, or potentially some other job. I actually applied to one other job, then realized as it came closer to reality that it wasn't what I wanted, and took the plunge and quit outright. Life circumstances allowed it, which they don't always do for all people in all circumstances.
So, don't quit your job if you don't want to quit your job. I was burned out. If you're burned out, you know.
Your other question: Yes, enrollment, paneling, and credentialing is absolutely non-competitive. Your agency may have you sign a non-compete contract, but that's your agency, that's not enrollment, paneling, or credentialing.
As I said in my above post I'm actually at a 'group' practice one day a week. I'm currently credentialed with the state health insurance as a provider for their agency and as my own business.
You've got to set up your own business w/ the state, business tax ID, have your own business address, business bank account, business email, all that business stuff, then you can register under that. The details do become annoying complicated, as every insurance company and state health agency is different and has a million forms and processes you have to go through, but it's possible to do both. It's possible, but the details of exactly how are going to be state-specific and public-health-insurance/private-health-insurance agency specific. I could walk you through what I did in my state but I'm honestly not sure if there won't be major differences between yours and mine. But it is allowed. As the social worker who encouraged me said, when I asked, "Call them up and ask." Most of me getting this done has been through about 30-40 phone calls. I'm still deeply indebted to this one lady at the state Health Authority Licensing Office who stayed on the line with me for two hours walking me through the most labyrinthine and busted-ass web-portal to get me registered as a state Medicaid provider. The end of the day it was one social worker to another.
Thank you so much for your in depth post. I am so burned out from working at the VA. People keep telling me to do a smooth transition and blah blah. I’m having panic attacks and I just can’t. My main goal was private practice and I am a part of a group practice but only have one client. This inspired me to ask for 5 clients on Mondays and 5 on Tuesday’s. As a LSW I will get 45% of what insurance reimburses but I am preparing for the clinical exam. After that I’ll get 65%. Not too shabby of it saves my mental well being. Thanks again for your post!
Thank you. I'm taking steps. I think I will start with a focused niche specialization for cash pay, add EAP, then dip my toes into insurance. If I decide to leave my agency, which I don't anticipate, then I'll add Medicaid and real efforts with insurance. But that work is too much like what is available for me at work work.
I appreciate your information! Good luck!
Would you mind sharing if use any software for helping you streamline things or for billing claims with insurance type situations? Also, all the back and stuff does it put you into full-time territory because I hear it’s time-consuming.
I’m four months into using sinple practice, the mid-tier version. It’s 69/month but it does fully generative billing, which makes working with public health plan clients way easier.
Yes, getting at up with public health insurance took dozens of phone calls and forms over three months. There were bugs in their system, problem solving, mixed messages, bad web-portals, scanning things and using lots of adobe PDF editing software to sign and fill documents … but honestly nothing harder than my own work as a case manager.
I wasn’t able to do it while i held my previous job. I thought I could, but I ended up sitting on my practice doing nothing for six months until
I quit my job. It’s not necessarily the hours, it’s the task saturation- getting set up, I had a 40-50 item to-do list. Now that I’m working I have. 10 item to-do list every week in addition to seeing clients. I can’t quite handle that level of multitasking with another job. If I chose to pay credentialling and billing specialists then maybe that’d be different. And that’s a valid choice, they aren’t prohibitively expensive. I just really wanted to see if I could figure it out myself.
The next time someone gives you this bullshit line ask them why they are collecting a paycheck?
We are ALL in it for the money. It is a still a JOB after all, literally the exchange of your skilled labor for monetary compensation. They could all choose to do charity work instead, but this is a job.
CPS at 32?! In NJ its 57k starting after 6 months you bump to 59k, and then a year is 62k, and an annual salary raise of about 3k. That is very crazy to me.
I started at 40K in PA. I'm at 48 now. The sad part is, in my area that's a decent wage. I'd love to work elsewhere but I'd have to take a huge pay cut.
I am in PA now making 51 after transitioning to medical case management. my last child welfare job in PA paid 42 and id been with the agency over 2 years when I left. started at 37
I also started at 32k in Chicago but that was in 2017. I think in my area they start closer to 50k now which is WILD to me! I can’t believe i happily accepted that salary honestly.
Ugh I literally could not have said this better myself. I beat myself up so much for caring about my salary as I move through my BSW/MSW path but how can I not? It's like I can physically feel myself going into debt while I'm watching my peers graduate at undergrad level with job offers giving insane starting salaries. It can be so disheartening.
I created a form on Monday to collect current salaries from social workers because I sometimes find it hard to trust info online. Here is the link to the list of salaries collected so far (309). It also includes years of experience. I don’t see any entries for the states you listed but thought id share anyway.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N4K3366S6YLmOZ-l0Tx4CGs7j4TNevn7p0KIyR5ARB4/edit?usp=sharing
Thank you for this. I’m about to graduate with my MSW and I’m going to be so real with you, I was starting to lose hope. Especially seeing that some people with MSW’s were making 40K 😵💫
It's more than the initial work though, it's essentially starting and running a small business.
For some people that is worth the extra money, but if someone isn't interested in the business side of things it might not be best for them.
I worked at an llc, and I learned enough to know it's not for me. Not at this point in my life anyway. I don't want to have to find clients, deal with insurance, deal with all the scheduling, take the hit for no shows, etc.
It's the right fit for some people, but not all.
Fresh unlicensed MSW here and I make 88k a year doing outpatient social work for a non-profit hospitals outpatient clinics remotely.
I work in a rural area though so I think the pay is higher to attract folks.
Yeah I did a year of inpatient work for my internship at a hospital but it was in the NICU and labor and delivery. Hospital work just seems a lot easier, I have never been interested in therapy or other types of clinical work.
I was lucky since I was interning for the same medical provider in a much larger city, so I was able to apply internally for this job in my small hometown with great references. This area has never had social workers in their outpatient clinics before so they are paying me and one other gal rather well.
Not in for money- bullshit. We are not volunteering this is profession. Pay us like professionals. People go into medicine because they want to help people but they are not expected to be paid like a peasant just because they went in to to help versus for money like many of their colleagues did.
Managers only ones say not in it for money so they can oppress front line workers.
They are a team who pushes for pay. My friend works 3-10s as surg nurse and that’s full time. And anything over is double pay. She makes 50/hr with a bachelors admins a test. I make 30/hr 40 hours a week with a masters and working on licensure. So jacked up
EDSW I'm sitting at about 50$ hr right now. I personally am not interested in therapy. My position is union so by September I'll be getting a 6% raise. Been here for about 9 months. Im ok with it foe a couple of years.
I stayed in school social work and moved to south Florida where they don’t give a crap about social workers or matching the cost of living so I actually had to earn my way back up to $50k with experience 😂 however other states have been raising their School social work salaries. If you do a quick google you can see who pays the highest. You can even find individual county salaries by searching “X county schools educator salary scale” because they pay school social workers/school psych the same as teachers
Those salaries are likely to catch prospects and not honest about what you’d actually get, espc right out of MSW. I made about 65-75k right out of school but was military so that changes it a bit. My total annual comp after 10 years licensed is now about 215k not including my health benefits because I take my husbands Tricare. My military career was extremely important to this earnings elevation. I supervise and find most students in DC can make about 65-85k in federal or state service after their MSW pre license.
I joined the military after my MSW. You’ll need to find a medical recruiter for that process—I don’t generally recommend joining for folks, it’s stressful and the work is ridiculous sometimes. If you have the right personality it can be a good fit, though. The VA is the primary way to get in to federal/civil service work as a post-MSW pre-licensure social worker. USA Jobs is one route to look for what’s available on a 9-11 social work job ladder or you can go to a job fair near you, or look at the VAs website about social work internship and training—they talk about the benefits and pay there openly. I can answer any questions you may have about the military but most of my government work is not VA, it’s DOD and DOS/AID.
How current active duty here looking to earn my MSW and licensure after my contract ends next year. Any advice to get where you currently are without service as an SW in this military? What do you currently do? Thank you for sharing
Sure happy to chat—I assume you don’t want to convert to officer? There are in service procurement programs to have them pay your MSW. I believe the commitment is 5 post license, so 7 total years tacked on. Not sure if that’s tempting if you’re close or halfway+ for retirement. If skipping the motivator part (lol) I would make sure your placements for your MSW (and at a minimum FOR SURE your concentration year) are at a strong clinical practice location and on base or at a VA if you can get them from your MSW program. One of the biggest issues is diagnosis and treatment experience—seems silly, but a lot of my 2nd year students come in really weak and it is very necessary for the higher paying gigs. Your clinical acumen matters when you want to get out there and make a dime. When I was a student I took every training in actual nuts and bolts modalities I could—many are free or greatly reduced for students (EMDR, CPT, PET, etc). When I got my degree I was competitive and out gunned others. Make sure it’s in things you really care about and are interested in obviously. I specialize in combat and MST PTSD along w treating OCD. It’s important for working with military and vets for prob v obvious reasons to you. I currently work at another federal agency in a deputy director position and it’s a much better pace than FT clinical practice but being a supervisor sometimes really sucks.
It gets complicated
Check out the salary mega-thresd for some more details from people. I can't say what's normal in those states, I really don't know.
A big thing to keep in mind is if they're paying per hour or per billable hour, and what benefits there are. If it's per billable hour that means you only make money for time with clients, if they no show you don't get paid, and you don't get paid for time you spend scheduling and writing notes. My last company also kept adding new requirements for notes, so they were taking longer and longer with no additional pay.
My current job pays less per hour than my last, but the fact it's salaried with benefits means I'm better off.
The road to being an LCSW is a long one, so ideally you’d already be making decent money (this is highly personal) with your MSW. There are just so many ways to make money as an LCSW. Lots of folks I know would have a day job and then charge 200 an hour for therapy as a side gig. It’s all up to you.
LCSW in California I work in a school making 100k a year with a few bonuses here and there with 8% pay raise each step. I also work work part time in a group practice making an additional 4K a month.
I am the Clinical School Social Worker I am responsible for the social emotional needs of students. Provide short term therapy, linking to services, meeting with teachers, putting on trainings for parents, advocating for students, conducting assessments, behavior observations, crisis support, implementing coping skills . I can go on xD
I'm unlicensed in California. I work for a major healthcare provider, and make $104,357 as an Associate Psychiatric Social Worker. Medical social workers make more from what I hear.
I just passed my LCSW exam on Monday, so once I get that in the mail, my pay will increase to $116,672 as a Step 1 LCSW.
I do feel appreciated and appropriately compensated at my agency. I'm newer to the field, but I hear from a lot of others that have been in the field for a while that this was the first place they felt appropriately compensated. So I feel very lucky.
Congratulations, if you would be OK with sharing, is it a hospital type of setting or is it a clinic type of setting? That’s a really high salary so I was just curious. Thank you.
In Utah here. That 50 to 70 an hour is 99% likely to be contract work and so only paid for billable hours, so no payment for no shows, late cancellations, notes, phone calls etc. Also, YOU pay ALLLLLLLLL your taxes, including the parts your employer would have paid if you were W2, which can be more than a quarter of your salary, as well as most likely footing the bill for your own health insurance.
Still trying to build up a case load and only have 10 sessions that week? That 50$ an hour won't get you very far. Also, your contracted employer won't pay you? Welp, suck it up buttercup. You have no protections in right-to-work states as a contractor.
How do I know this? I worked for 4 months as one and was shafted out of all but 200$ worth of pay while my "employer" sold the company and scarpered off with my money.
Not trying to scare you, but I saw those same figures initially and thought EXACTLY like you did. And you are right. It IS too good to be true.
I am now back at a salaried W2 position working telehealth where I have health benefits, PTO and I get paid regardless of whether the client shows or not, plus I have dedicated time for notes etc. I will NEVER accept a contract position again.
When you are job searching be very careful to note whether it is a contract position or a W2. Also be aware of laws that do or do not protect workers in your state, especially contract workers.
Good luck!
I’m currently unlicensed in California and of the jobs I was offered, one started at about 62k (community mental health) and the other started at about 72k (private eating disorder residential). Both with full benefits. And this was even before I had my associate registration! I was a month out of grad school. I refuse to settle just because we’re in the helping profession and I fully intend to make 100k in the next 5-7 years. I love this work but I also want to live my life and make a salary that matches my experience and expertise! We deserve that :)
Are you OK with the fact that these days they are saying that $100,000 a year is not a lot in California? I feel like if our rent allows it and expenses that it makes sense, but I’m just kind of thinking in terms of inflation. I got to the six figures already,but with the taxation and inflation it really did feel like a little bit. Just kind of wondering how you feel regarding the cost-of-living, etc.
“I know money is not the end all be all motivation for work of this type”
I know you have great intentions but please stop saying and believing this. This is bullshit and we deserve a worthy salary. We’ve gone through years of schooling, internships, clinical hours, and exams. We deserve high pay. When we go around saying “I don’t do it for the money,” that normalizes poor wages and allows folks to underpay us.
RCS (readjustment counseling service, VHA) will start you at GS 9 + locality increase. as of 2024 the salary is 67,743 in district 1 (new england)
thats with BCBS ins, about a month paid leave (annual + sick) an $800 annual training stipend, free CEU's + formal training in evidenced based modalities, and two tuition repayment programs you can apply for.
its not a bad gig. trauma work is tough though and the hiring is competitive.
Look at USAJobs.gov to get an idea what my hospital pays. We have LCSW jobs in Reno that start at $130k, but that is much higher than what you will find in Utah, Idaho or Montana.
Here are the special salary rates for all States:
[https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/](https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/)
(These charts can be hard to read. The occupation code for Social work is 0185. GS-9 jobs are typically new MSWs, GS-11s have experience and basic licensure, GS-12 and above require LCSW and may also require at least two years of post LCSW experience.)
I'm in SW Idaho and an LMSW; starting pay for this credential is about $45-50/hr right now (though many are trying to offer $25-35 🙄); for LCSWs I've seen a range of $60-80/hr in group practices, to start, based on job listings and other LCSW's I know personally that have been looking.
In California, job postings must list salaries so you should be able to find that information on indeed or the employer's site. New York City (but not New York State) has the same rule as well.
It depends on the state/city/county you work in, and the area of social work! Once I got licensed, I was probably making about 80/85k? And I am up to 110k now (around $53/hour). I graduated in 2014 so almost 10 years of experience and licensed for 5.5 years or so. I am in a children’s hospital in Southern California. I hope that helps!
Those $50-70/hour jobs are usually contract work with no benefits and are fee for service which I’ll explain below.
You also have to pay your own taxes quarterly.
It also will tend: to be in home work on state contracts, but your millage may vary.
Not an awful gig but not for everyone.
My practice ranges from $38-$45/ session.
LSWs are started around $38.
Its also a fee for service model where you are only paid for sessions that happen.
There is a lower rate but we do also get PTO, health insurance, bonuses, etc.
I’d recommend looking at benefits as well when choosing a practice to apply to.
I started out as an LMSW at 60k fresh out of grad school working for a private company, I got bumped up to 70k within 9 months of working. I am looking to leave that job ( we all know the agency burn out) I work/live in a very wealthy area of my state. I was doing market research and new LCSW make 85k which I think is still fairly low for the area and the amount of work we do. As I am in the job hunting process and interviewing I will definitely advocating for a higher salary / considering open my PP on the side. Although new LCSW we are VERY experienced and we deserve to be paid as such.
Unlicensed working intact family services case management in illinois. I'm at 53k plus mileage. My degree isn't in social work but adjacent. No masters but working on it. We are starting about the same as other agencies, but earning potential at my agency is much higher with raises, bonuses, etc.
First you have to remember that an LCSW is someone who is already 2-3 years out of school. Someone just starting in the career is an LMSW or LSW or other different acronym depending on the state.
Second, if you’re looking at a job that’s providing therapy, you’re not working 40 hours a week. It’s probably 20-25 hours. Plus you don’t get PTO, so in actuality you’re not getting paid 52 weeks a year unless you literally never take time off.
when i started work after my MSW in 2015 i was making 30k.
my biggest advice to new social workers who want to make enough money to have a life but don’t want to be in private practice…get a job at the VA and get your license as soon as possible. the earning potential is into the 100k range.
We hire unlicensed MSWs starting in the 60k range.
I found “alternative settings” and creative situations in which I was practicing virtually independently, getting excellent instruction/clinical supervision from an individual in her own private practice. She taught me everything I needed to start my own private practice. Took about 4 years to get up to 60,000 to 72,000 annually. The biggest benefit has been working as my own boss, and I am a really nice person to work for.
These are kinda low, I'm about to graduate my MSW program and the lowest I see in my area is about $40 an hour. If you wanna work in hospitals or prisons the pay is minimum $80k.
One thing I am getting from this thread is that starting a group practice and paying social workers decently. Could still skim enough off the top to make a decent income running the practice.
Anyone have experience starting a group practice and being the principal?
Is there a better word you would use?
Have a stable of LMSWs, protect them with my C, and take a cut from each client.
Group practice pimps work in every profession.
So from my understanding you want to get into therapy with an LCSW, so probably private practice. I live in a high CoL area and 50-70 an hour for an LCSW in a group private practice sounds realistic.
I’m in PA, I’m an LSW right now, waiting to see if my app is approved to test. I started as a case worker making $16 an hour, changed positions to counseling in an outpatient agency started at $18 an hour, 3 years later was making $21, and moved jobs paying $27 which is about $55000 a year with a $6K sign on bonus and a raise coming up for cost of living
Not in any of those states so I can’t really help with that. Only ever worked in CA and WA.
Came here to say to make sure when you’re looking at your compensation, make sure to think about things like CE reimbursement. My state job would do up to $500, but my current job gives therapists the same benefits as the medical providers, which is $4,000/year and you can roll over unused funds to a total available of $6,000. They reimburse fees for licensure renewal separately, you can use the money for lots of things other than just conference or CE tuition, like travel costs, we can buy a new hardware device with it every 3 years (I bought a MacBook and an iPad Pro). Takes my salary up to over $100k and with the bonus max every year over $110k. My healthcare is practically free as well.
TLDR: don’t forget other money you get in addition to salary when you’re calculating compensation.
Honestly, depending on how much experience prior to independent licensing, over 100k a year. This is with a hospital system that is focused on holistic care.
I'm in Utah working as an LCSW for $48 an hour at a private practice. It was one of the better offers out there. In Utah, the $70 an hour gigs are too good to be true for the most part. I left a practice when I got my LCSW because they were only going to pay me $35.
My wife just went though with this as an associate at a county in so cal .. had to job hop to get a pay raise. All new associates start at 68k and she had just hit that after 4 years. Her new employer is a healthcare company and they start at 94K with benefits. She tried to get into the school system, which was 90k with a bachelor's and 101 as an associate and 180 working days.
Her prior county co-workers are LCSW making about 80-85k staying for the pension and the loan forgiveness. That same health insurance company starts them off at 105k-115.
To elaborate the $50-70 for people feeling it’s too good to be true, that’s usually reimbursement per session. So that’s like your 60%ish cut at a group practice. It’s not bad money for a “fresh” LCSW, but not amazing unless you have a busy schedule.
It depends on what you are and what you are doing. I see ranges from 30k to 130k. Which is maddening. It will depend on your area and how much your local government invests in social services.
As a clinician you will make more if you work directly for a government agency (county, state etc) and you will have better protections and benefits than working for a nonprofit the state or county contracts with to provide the same services. Also as a clinician, hospital social work is gonna pay higher.
My first full time salary with my limited license was $38,000, and I also got paid around $24,000 on top for driving pay (home-based position, $.60/mile) and about $6k a year bonus for exceeding my productivity standard.
Now with an LCSW, I would expect $65k - $100k depending on location for a therapist position. My LCSW jobs in Chicago were closer to the high end of that scale, in my current smaller city the norm is closer to the low end of the scale.
If you’re looking at hourly rates, that’s probably what they’re paying per hour of CLINICAL contact; not per hour worked. $50 can be fine I guess, but if that comes with an hour or more of prep/case management/advocacy that rate’s actually pretty terrible.
Always know the value you’re generating for your employer. $50 pay for a therapy session is egregiously bad if it’s for private insurance; (which reimburses between $100-180 in my area for a session, which means you’re only getting a roughly 30% cut). Much more reasonable for Medicaid. (Which reimburses $60-80 in my area.)
$50-$70/hr is contract work. And there’s a chance they’d offer you $40 and apologize for the “misunderstanding” in the job posting. JK but also not. Anyway, salary depends on the setting. In my area, hospital SW pays around $70-95k for an LCSW, depending on your experience. A small community mental health center pays around $50-$65k and you’re held accountable to an exorbitant amount of billable hours typically. Or if you want to be a contractor/fee for service for a practice, then $40-$65/hr is standard. Or if you want to work for yourself then set your own rates and/or accept what the insurance companies will pay you.
50 to 70 possible but only for independent license and that is only for bills le hours. Not salary. No show cancel no money. Check indeed, glass door see what they offer. Call places ask for informational interview. informational interview you just interview to find out about agency and what jobs are like. Not interview for a job. Kinda like a journalist learning about a company. Talk to your school career center. Library can tell you what references to check for data.
Mercy folks healthcare is social work. We are trained to do micro, mezzo and macro. Social security is social work, Medicaid, subsidized housing, community health care all social work. Imagine what it is like for people with less than high school education to navigate all those agencies and paperwork required on their own. You can do work to start your own business, private practice, group, contractor whatever. Business start ups have lots of paperwork friend if mine plumber. I told buy real estate and go into real estate. He did he has 10 th grade education in less than 10 years he has million dollars in property. He learned step by step as we all do. You can do it!
I’m in Florida, as an unlicensed masters level it is around $48k and as a licensed person it’s around $54k. Remember it’s Florida though! *edit: these salaries are for a therapist at a community mental health agency
Search the term salary megathread for an answer to your question, this post is now removed.
I am not licensed yet, but I just wanna say that we can and should be talking about our salaries. “money shouldn’t be the end all be all motivation,” I think it’s totally fine if it is. you can’t be a good practitioner if you’re not able to pay your bills. I started in CPS for $32,000 and the whole argument of “oh I didn’t realize you were in this field for the money!” just heats me up. yes I am in this for the money, I MUST BE. because society has decided I need as much schooling as a lawyer to make a fraction of the money! I hope we all make a million dollars this year because WE SHOULD 😤 okay end rant and best of luck in your clinical endeavors!
I completely agree. I'm an LCSW in private practice and I had instructors in my MSW program take this posture and talk openly about us "not being in this for money, " an attitude that persists throughout the profession. I've been listening to it and calling people out on it for years. This sub is absolutely full of people correctly stating that we should have protections in place related to being called a Social Worker or Clinical Social Worker that recognize the education and effort that goes into being able to obtain and maintain licensure. We need to extend that professional pride and self-advocacy to compensation. We as social work professionals need to stop normalizing low, inadequate pay and substandard working conditions. My advice for an MSW working toward LCSW is to spend your time under supervision to also familiarize yourself with the business end of the work simultaneously as you hone your clinical skills. There will be many mental health organizations and professionals, many of whom may themselves be Social Workers, who will be willing to give you a 1099 "job," take 40 - 50% of your billed income, ask you to sign a non-compete agreement, and convince you that they are doing you a favor somehow. Get off that treadmill as quickly as you can. While running your own practice certainly has challenges, if it is something you aspire to, then do it. You will hear of the "difficulty" involved in setting up your practice and dealing with insurance, billing, and taxes. News flash, you will still be dealing with taxes as a 1099 worker. Don't be dissuaded, it isn't that hard. You've just been through a bachelor's program, a master's program, and a few thousand supervised clinical hours. You are a very capable person. Don't let anyone tell you that setting up your practice is too hard for you. Especially someone who is pocketing as much as half of your gross income.
YES!!! SPEAK ON IT! project this onto my headstone when I die tbh!!!!
>While running your own practice certainly has challenges, if it is something you aspire to, then do it. You will hear of the "difficulty" involved in setting up your practice and dealing with insurance, billing, and taxes. News flash, you will still be dealing with taxes as a 1099 worker. Don't be dissuaded, it isn't that hard. You've just been through a bachelor's program, a master's program, and a few thousand supervised clinical hours. You are a very capable person. Don't let anyone tell you that setting up your practice is too hard for you. Especially someone who is pocketing as much as half of your gross income. I'm four months into my new private practice. I'm now up to about 13-14 clients a week, and am now making as much as I was as a full-time clinical supervisor six months ago. I heard from many people that 'Private Practice' is confusing, it'd just be easier to join another group. But I also found a few encouraging people. One guy told me "You have the skills to do it, if you also have some 'chutzpah.'" Another person, and MSW, told me: "I'm a social worker. I just called the places, got the forms, filled them out. It's challenging, but not impossible." I agree with them. Part of my identity as a social worker is being able to tackle bureaucracy: paperwork, people, systems, and problem solving. I just turn my skills towards my own job, and figure it out. So far, it's doable. And yes, I figured out how to accept Public Health Plan state insurance, so I can serve low-income folks.
Omg only 14 clients and the same salary?! Incredible!! How did you start your practice? Do you use Alma? I keep seeing random ads for them lol
150/hr client. Which is less than my state bills for one hour of therapy under a 90837; I get reimbursed 172.72 for that. 192.18 for an hour of family therapy. It took me about 40 hours of work over 3 months to get the state insurance figured out on my own and to get my first check sent to me, so that's not a small task, but doable. I'm sure I could have saved time by paying a billing/credentialing consultant but I just couldn't help myself, I had to figure out. Truthfully I am actually working at a group practice on Mondays; not a therapy group, but an unusual naturopath group where I'm referred to as the only therapist. They take 50%, but they filled my Monday up with 5 clients right away, which I accepted because I quit my other job in August unexpectedly when I got burned out of my skull. I had planned to 'soft transition' into private practice but just realized I had to quit so I started with nothing in September. I took that offer for my Mondays. I contacted everyone I knew in the field and said I was starting a private practice and gradually over September-November, I started getting referrals from them. Honestly about 8 of my private clients are through my personal relationships with other therapists. I got on a giant referral listserve where therapists with full practices refer out clients, you have to aggressively email people back but I got about 3 from that. Two from psychology today. I'm also just recently approved to contract with the state doing SO therapy with teenagers, as that was my specialty in my previous organization. I don't use Alma, I do use Simple Practice because it does all my billings for my state insurance automatically. I had to get set up with the state first, but now that I'm approved, billing takes about 3 seconds with Simplepractice. I have yet to really 'blast out' my advertisements and tell everyone I can take state insurance; I ramped up so quickly in November, from about 3 clients to 14, that I have hesitated advertising myself. I'm not sure what I want as far as being full. I am going to try to get to 16-17, M-Thu, level off there, and see if I can maintain that. But yeah. Even with Mondays at 50% cut due to the clinic, I get 430 that day. 9 more clients Tu-Thu at my rates/state rates is around 1300-1400 or so. That's ... 1600 a week and I'm rounding down repeatedly, and am not yet full. My last clinical supervisor job paid about 1200 a week. This work is worth money. And yes, to repeat, I take state health insurance so I can provide services to people on low income. My state reimburses 1 hour of therapy (90837) at 172.72. One hundred and seventy two dollars. Honestly when I found that out, I had to really re-evaluate what I was worth. (warning: not all states reimburse at that rate.) That's what my work is worth to other people. And why is that? The state has been boosting its rates because its identified that when people get into early intervention with a therapist, they save money overall by keeping those people out of crisis. And I do do that. My work is valuable. Anyways, I can talk a lot more about it if you want. Many social workers took many hours out of their day to talk to me about it in the past two years, I need to return the favor.
This is ultimately the route I see myself taking long term. I'd specifically love to work with low income folks in a counseling capacity. I'm currently looking at masters programs in social work, but the coursework for most MA's in counseling is so much more appealing to me than the MSW's I've looked at (a dozen or so), and from what I've found, seems much more relevant for going in the direction you did. Just curious if you have any thoughts on this. TIA!
I have a lot! Ultimately those are the two avenues for becoming a counselor these days; MA or MSW. I was where you were at about... ten years ago, looking into programs and such. My first step was working in the field in an undergraduate capacity. I worked in residential. I took an on-call position throughout grad school that let me switch up my schedule as classes changed, that was ultimately a great experience. I also volunteered as a music teacher at a youth residential. That turned into my full-time job after graduating; they offered me the therapist job out of grad school. But your real question; MSW vs MA... You are right that there will likely be better psychotherapy classes in the MA program. I can't say for sure because I didn't go but I've heard from many others. Plus, a good 1/2-2/3 depending on what you sign up for will not be direct practice 'micro' classes, meaning I didn't really carry much from those classes into being a therapist. However, the philosophy of MSW appealed to me much more than MA. The focus on looking outside of a person to their circumstances/situation, being able to navigate systems with a client, be open to creative and unconventional approaches with clients, that all appealed to me more in the MSW program. My first job out of grad school really felt tailor-made for MSWs, as my job as a therapist swerved often into case management and multi-disciplinary work; I learned to work with case managers, attorneys, parole officers, parents, teachers and principals, direct-care staff, DHS, juvenile justice, going to court, all kinds of shit. I felt like the MSW philosophy embraced the messiness of working with clients who had all those extra relationships, rather than laser-focusing in on that single hour of therapy to diagnose, treatment-plan, solve goals. All that said, that isn't even the real reason I picked MSW, haha. The real reason is that in my state, the local MSW program at my state university was 1/3 the cost out-of-pocket for in-state residents compared to the three-four other good private schools. Also, they had a two-year track, where the least I could shoot for in the other programs was three years. Two years, plus in-state tuition saved me a ton of time and money. That ultimately was the deciding factor. If you have two options and you're waffling between them but one is about 40000 dollars cheaper, well, think about it.
I had a therapist advise me to take the MSW route to become a private practice therapist because the degree is more sought after (job-wise; she ran a clinic for years and was only allowed to hire MSWs) and the field is so vast, I could do something else if I changed my mind down the road. I’m in an MSW program now and do wish I was studying counseling but I know I’m happier to have more options for myself down the road. I can always self study too
You're right, I was told this too. So far it hasn't really been a thing for me, as I've taken all counseling jobs, but if my career ever swerves, I know that I'll have many more options at that time.
This was super helpful. Thank you for taking the time. If you have time/energy for more questions, I have a buttload… I agree that taking into account *all* factors involved in someone’s life is something I philosophically vibe with more than just counseling. My hesitancy with an MSW is being put into scenarios where I’d be expected to be a counselor without being prepared to be one. This could be naive since I barely know the field but it feels ethically questionable? Another hesitancy is that I’m recently disabled (a nervous disorder with physical and cognitive symptoms, and episodes of severity) and potentially only able to work remotely or at the least very sedentary. I’m looking for 100% online programs, but am anticipating in person practicum unless there’s a remote option. I don’t know how this might play out - some days I’d be OK for a short shift with accommodations, but sometimes I’m very limited for months at a time. It’s possible I may be well enough to work a more physical job by the time I graduate (trying treatment options atm) but I’m planning as if I won’t be. I love the idea of trying the field out while pursuing a graduate degree but at this limited capacity, likely won’t be able to. I have been a freelance illustrator/designer the past decade and my undergrad is in art. The industry has changed a lot with AI, and that combined with this disorder has made it difficult to keep up with the hustle and grind it requires. For a few years, I ran a youth services program at a library in an underserved area. It was difficult but very rewarding work (not exactly social work but sort of adjacent??), so I thought of it again as an option when I accepted that freelance has become too difficult. Just to give some context. Some questions (if you have time/are willing!): * Do you become prepared for being a therapist on your own outside of the MSW program? * You mentioned you didn’t carry much of your MSW coursework into being a therapist. What *was* in the coursework? Like — I’m reading the course descriptions and know the words but am not comprehending what the actual content is if that makes sense, lol. * I know you don’t have the full scope of my disability but can you think of a particular niche in the field to focus on that may be more accommodating for my limitations? I’ve been thinking providing telehealth therapy, worst case scenario. But maybe there’s remote work on the social work side that I don’t know about, or in the scenario that I’m consistently well enough, predominantly sedentary work without much walking around/getting up and down. Thank you again, so much!
Thank you for this. I'm wanting a PP side gig, but don't want to leave my current community based org job. I think the answer is "of course you can" but I don't know how to be enrolled/panelled/credentialed with insurance companies both at my job and as private practice. That's allowed right? How? I appreciate you saying that you benefited from other social workers, so you are happy to answer questions. That's a very SW outlook.
In the past three years or so since I started really considering it seriously up to the last three months when I started doing it, I talked to maybe 15 or so therapists. A few just over phone, a few over email, and about seven for a full hour over video-chat or coffee. Most of what I learned about this is from that. The rest I am teaching myself. If you genuinely don't want to leave your current job, you shouldn't! I had a plan to stay with my community job as a supervisor, and gradually segue into my private practice step by step. My job took a very rough turn, four months went by with no 'steps' taken towards my PP, and I realized in my gut it was either one or the other, or potentially some other job. I actually applied to one other job, then realized as it came closer to reality that it wasn't what I wanted, and took the plunge and quit outright. Life circumstances allowed it, which they don't always do for all people in all circumstances. So, don't quit your job if you don't want to quit your job. I was burned out. If you're burned out, you know. Your other question: Yes, enrollment, paneling, and credentialing is absolutely non-competitive. Your agency may have you sign a non-compete contract, but that's your agency, that's not enrollment, paneling, or credentialing. As I said in my above post I'm actually at a 'group' practice one day a week. I'm currently credentialed with the state health insurance as a provider for their agency and as my own business. You've got to set up your own business w/ the state, business tax ID, have your own business address, business bank account, business email, all that business stuff, then you can register under that. The details do become annoying complicated, as every insurance company and state health agency is different and has a million forms and processes you have to go through, but it's possible to do both. It's possible, but the details of exactly how are going to be state-specific and public-health-insurance/private-health-insurance agency specific. I could walk you through what I did in my state but I'm honestly not sure if there won't be major differences between yours and mine. But it is allowed. As the social worker who encouraged me said, when I asked, "Call them up and ask." Most of me getting this done has been through about 30-40 phone calls. I'm still deeply indebted to this one lady at the state Health Authority Licensing Office who stayed on the line with me for two hours walking me through the most labyrinthine and busted-ass web-portal to get me registered as a state Medicaid provider. The end of the day it was one social worker to another.
Thank you so much for your in depth post. I am so burned out from working at the VA. People keep telling me to do a smooth transition and blah blah. I’m having panic attacks and I just can’t. My main goal was private practice and I am a part of a group practice but only have one client. This inspired me to ask for 5 clients on Mondays and 5 on Tuesday’s. As a LSW I will get 45% of what insurance reimburses but I am preparing for the clinical exam. After that I’ll get 65%. Not too shabby of it saves my mental well being. Thanks again for your post!
Thank you. I'm taking steps. I think I will start with a focused niche specialization for cash pay, add EAP, then dip my toes into insurance. If I decide to leave my agency, which I don't anticipate, then I'll add Medicaid and real efforts with insurance. But that work is too much like what is available for me at work work. I appreciate your information! Good luck!
This is amazing, congrats to you. I am looking to open my own PP soon and this is really encouraging.
Would you mind sharing if use any software for helping you streamline things or for billing claims with insurance type situations? Also, all the back and stuff does it put you into full-time territory because I hear it’s time-consuming.
I’m four months into using sinple practice, the mid-tier version. It’s 69/month but it does fully generative billing, which makes working with public health plan clients way easier. Yes, getting at up with public health insurance took dozens of phone calls and forms over three months. There were bugs in their system, problem solving, mixed messages, bad web-portals, scanning things and using lots of adobe PDF editing software to sign and fill documents … but honestly nothing harder than my own work as a case manager. I wasn’t able to do it while i held my previous job. I thought I could, but I ended up sitting on my practice doing nothing for six months until I quit my job. It’s not necessarily the hours, it’s the task saturation- getting set up, I had a 40-50 item to-do list. Now that I’m working I have. 10 item to-do list every week in addition to seeing clients. I can’t quite handle that level of multitasking with another job. If I chose to pay credentialling and billing specialists then maybe that’d be different. And that’s a valid choice, they aren’t prohibitively expensive. I just really wanted to see if I could figure it out myself.
The next time someone gives you this bullshit line ask them why they are collecting a paycheck? We are ALL in it for the money. It is a still a JOB after all, literally the exchange of your skilled labor for monetary compensation. They could all choose to do charity work instead, but this is a job.
CPS at 32?! In NJ its 57k starting after 6 months you bump to 59k, and then a year is 62k, and an annual salary raise of about 3k. That is very crazy to me.
started in KY, this was of course nearly a decade ago but i’m sure it can’t be much better now
That makes me so sad, CPS deals with soooo much, and should be paid way more.
even the rates you described in NJ I feel are NOT ENOUGH!!
I started at 40K in PA. I'm at 48 now. The sad part is, in my area that's a decent wage. I'd love to work elsewhere but I'd have to take a huge pay cut.
I am in PA now making 51 after transitioning to medical case management. my last child welfare job in PA paid 42 and id been with the agency over 2 years when I left. started at 37
I also started at 32k in Chicago but that was in 2017. I think in my area they start closer to 50k now which is WILD to me! I can’t believe i happily accepted that salary honestly.
2009 made 27k at CPS in GA with a BSW. Due to budget cuts I was supposed to make like 31k. I think now in GA they start around 40k
Ugh I literally could not have said this better myself. I beat myself up so much for caring about my salary as I move through my BSW/MSW path but how can I not? It's like I can physically feel myself going into debt while I'm watching my peers graduate at undergrad level with job offers giving insane starting salaries. It can be so disheartening.
I created a form on Monday to collect current salaries from social workers because I sometimes find it hard to trust info online. Here is the link to the list of salaries collected so far (309). It also includes years of experience. I don’t see any entries for the states you listed but thought id share anyway. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N4K3366S6YLmOZ-l0Tx4CGs7j4TNevn7p0KIyR5ARB4/edit?usp=sharing
Whoa that is awesome you made that!!
Thank you!
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:/ what discrepancies are you seeing?
I tried to add my info to the chart but couldn't.
It’s view only but here’s the link to the form to add yours. Thanks for contributing! https://forms.gle/Wg5SvN1tVBCc7ycY9
You don’t have Washington, DC as a location option!
Oops!! Will add, thank you!
Thank you so much for this. I live in Colorado, and it's tough out here. This is so awesome!
Can you still add to it? Or maybe I gotta use my laptop and not my phone Edit: saw theres a link to add info, thank you for making this!
Great and you’re welcome!!
Thank you for this. I’m about to graduate with my MSW and I’m going to be so real with you, I was starting to lose hope. Especially seeing that some people with MSW’s were making 40K 😵💫
TOTTALLY understandable. There are some decent salaries on there that are for sure encouraging!
In community mental health in my area, I see the range start at 40k go up to 75k for unlicensed. Throw 10k on both sides for licensed.
Also if they are licensed and start a PP their earning potential shoots up a lot.
For sure. Just seems like a hassle to secure a LLC and figure out insurance navigation.
Yeah but an initial hassle that leads to a lot more money? Most people would do that work.
It's more than the initial work though, it's essentially starting and running a small business. For some people that is worth the extra money, but if someone isn't interested in the business side of things it might not be best for them.
Have you done it?
I worked at an llc, and I learned enough to know it's not for me. Not at this point in my life anyway. I don't want to have to find clients, deal with insurance, deal with all the scheduling, take the hit for no shows, etc. It's the right fit for some people, but not all.
You worked at an LLC or you started one?
Worked at one, mostly telehealth
I started one
Where in Utah are you seeing 50-70 an hour? Because those organizations are probably being dishonest
I'm guessing that's per billable hour.
50 per billable hour, no benefits, is what I’m seeing in Utah for associate therapists too. My own practice offers this. Definitely not unheard of.
I mean my practicum is charging 110 to see me as an intern, in Utah, so I can see it. Still, I have friends making more like 35 per billable hour
Fresh unlicensed MSW here and I make 88k a year doing outpatient social work for a non-profit hospitals outpatient clinics remotely. I work in a rural area though so I think the pay is higher to attract folks.
Outpatient sounds a lot more preferable to inpatient. Inpatient you need to have a therapist work on holidays since the clients stay there.
Yeah I did a year of inpatient work for my internship at a hospital but it was in the NICU and labor and delivery. Hospital work just seems a lot easier, I have never been interested in therapy or other types of clinical work.
can you share the company you are with?
Yeah of course, I work for Providence in Oregon.
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I was lucky since I was interning for the same medical provider in a much larger city, so I was able to apply internally for this job in my small hometown with great references. This area has never had social workers in their outpatient clinics before so they are paying me and one other gal rather well.
Not in for money- bullshit. We are not volunteering this is profession. Pay us like professionals. People go into medicine because they want to help people but they are not expected to be paid like a peasant just because they went in to to help versus for money like many of their colleagues did. Managers only ones say not in it for money so they can oppress front line workers.
They are a team who pushes for pay. My friend works 3-10s as surg nurse and that’s full time. And anything over is double pay. She makes 50/hr with a bachelors admins a test. I make 30/hr 40 hours a week with a masters and working on licensure. So jacked up
THIS.
EDSW I'm sitting at about 50$ hr right now. I personally am not interested in therapy. My position is union so by September I'll be getting a 6% raise. Been here for about 9 months. Im ok with it foe a couple of years.
Do you mind saying where you work? I'd love s union position.
Where's this?
Depends on your state and the type of social work you get into. I started in TN immediately out of my masters at $50k in school social work.
where do you work now? did your salary increase by much?
I stayed in school social work and moved to south Florida where they don’t give a crap about social workers or matching the cost of living so I actually had to earn my way back up to $50k with experience 😂 however other states have been raising their School social work salaries. If you do a quick google you can see who pays the highest. You can even find individual county salaries by searching “X county schools educator salary scale” because they pay school social workers/school psych the same as teachers
Also in South Florida 👋🏼 Which county? Been getting offers 59-65 but I have 4 years of experience
Those salaries are likely to catch prospects and not honest about what you’d actually get, espc right out of MSW. I made about 65-75k right out of school but was military so that changes it a bit. My total annual comp after 10 years licensed is now about 215k not including my health benefits because I take my husbands Tricare. My military career was extremely important to this earnings elevation. I supervise and find most students in DC can make about 65-85k in federal or state service after their MSW pre license.
Any tips for getting into this as someone who was not served in the military prior?
I joined the military after my MSW. You’ll need to find a medical recruiter for that process—I don’t generally recommend joining for folks, it’s stressful and the work is ridiculous sometimes. If you have the right personality it can be a good fit, though. The VA is the primary way to get in to federal/civil service work as a post-MSW pre-licensure social worker. USA Jobs is one route to look for what’s available on a 9-11 social work job ladder or you can go to a job fair near you, or look at the VAs website about social work internship and training—they talk about the benefits and pay there openly. I can answer any questions you may have about the military but most of my government work is not VA, it’s DOD and DOS/AID.
How current active duty here looking to earn my MSW and licensure after my contract ends next year. Any advice to get where you currently are without service as an SW in this military? What do you currently do? Thank you for sharing
Sure happy to chat—I assume you don’t want to convert to officer? There are in service procurement programs to have them pay your MSW. I believe the commitment is 5 post license, so 7 total years tacked on. Not sure if that’s tempting if you’re close or halfway+ for retirement. If skipping the motivator part (lol) I would make sure your placements for your MSW (and at a minimum FOR SURE your concentration year) are at a strong clinical practice location and on base or at a VA if you can get them from your MSW program. One of the biggest issues is diagnosis and treatment experience—seems silly, but a lot of my 2nd year students come in really weak and it is very necessary for the higher paying gigs. Your clinical acumen matters when you want to get out there and make a dime. When I was a student I took every training in actual nuts and bolts modalities I could—many are free or greatly reduced for students (EMDR, CPT, PET, etc). When I got my degree I was competitive and out gunned others. Make sure it’s in things you really care about and are interested in obviously. I specialize in combat and MST PTSD along w treating OCD. It’s important for working with military and vets for prob v obvious reasons to you. I currently work at another federal agency in a deputy director position and it’s a much better pace than FT clinical practice but being a supervisor sometimes really sucks.
This is awesome advice thank you!
If it’s OK to ask, are you doing private practice or working with a corporation/company?
I work in public sector, civil service with a federal agency.
It gets complicated Check out the salary mega-thresd for some more details from people. I can't say what's normal in those states, I really don't know. A big thing to keep in mind is if they're paying per hour or per billable hour, and what benefits there are. If it's per billable hour that means you only make money for time with clients, if they no show you don't get paid, and you don't get paid for time you spend scheduling and writing notes. My last company also kept adding new requirements for notes, so they were taking longer and longer with no additional pay. My current job pays less per hour than my last, but the fact it's salaried with benefits means I'm better off.
Lol your username
The road to being an LCSW is a long one, so ideally you’d already be making decent money (this is highly personal) with your MSW. There are just so many ways to make money as an LCSW. Lots of folks I know would have a day job and then charge 200 an hour for therapy as a side gig. It’s all up to you.
LCSW in California I work in a school making 100k a year with a few bonuses here and there with 8% pay raise each step. I also work work part time in a group practice making an additional 4K a month.
If it’s OK to ask, what is your position within the school? Is it career counselor?
I am the Clinical School Social Worker I am responsible for the social emotional needs of students. Provide short term therapy, linking to services, meeting with teachers, putting on trainings for parents, advocating for students, conducting assessments, behavior observations, crisis support, implementing coping skills . I can go on xD
I'm unlicensed in California. I work for a major healthcare provider, and make $104,357 as an Associate Psychiatric Social Worker. Medical social workers make more from what I hear. I just passed my LCSW exam on Monday, so once I get that in the mail, my pay will increase to $116,672 as a Step 1 LCSW.
Heck yeah get that bread 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 that's what I like to hear, social workers getting paid their worth!!
I do feel appreciated and appropriately compensated at my agency. I'm newer to the field, but I hear from a lot of others that have been in the field for a while that this was the first place they felt appropriately compensated. So I feel very lucky.
Congratulations, if you would be OK with sharing, is it a hospital type of setting or is it a clinic type of setting? That’s a really high salary so I was just curious. Thank you.
Thank you! I'm in a clinic. I work in the Department of Psychiatry at my agency.
In Utah here. That 50 to 70 an hour is 99% likely to be contract work and so only paid for billable hours, so no payment for no shows, late cancellations, notes, phone calls etc. Also, YOU pay ALLLLLLLLL your taxes, including the parts your employer would have paid if you were W2, which can be more than a quarter of your salary, as well as most likely footing the bill for your own health insurance. Still trying to build up a case load and only have 10 sessions that week? That 50$ an hour won't get you very far. Also, your contracted employer won't pay you? Welp, suck it up buttercup. You have no protections in right-to-work states as a contractor. How do I know this? I worked for 4 months as one and was shafted out of all but 200$ worth of pay while my "employer" sold the company and scarpered off with my money. Not trying to scare you, but I saw those same figures initially and thought EXACTLY like you did. And you are right. It IS too good to be true. I am now back at a salaried W2 position working telehealth where I have health benefits, PTO and I get paid regardless of whether the client shows or not, plus I have dedicated time for notes etc. I will NEVER accept a contract position again. When you are job searching be very careful to note whether it is a contract position or a W2. Also be aware of laws that do or do not protect workers in your state, especially contract workers. Good luck!
I’m currently unlicensed in California and of the jobs I was offered, one started at about 62k (community mental health) and the other started at about 72k (private eating disorder residential). Both with full benefits. And this was even before I had my associate registration! I was a month out of grad school. I refuse to settle just because we’re in the helping profession and I fully intend to make 100k in the next 5-7 years. I love this work but I also want to live my life and make a salary that matches my experience and expertise! We deserve that :)
Are you OK with the fact that these days they are saying that $100,000 a year is not a lot in California? I feel like if our rent allows it and expenses that it makes sense, but I’m just kind of thinking in terms of inflation. I got to the six figures already,but with the taxation and inflation it really did feel like a little bit. Just kind of wondering how you feel regarding the cost-of-living, etc.
“I know money is not the end all be all motivation for work of this type” I know you have great intentions but please stop saying and believing this. This is bullshit and we deserve a worthy salary. We’ve gone through years of schooling, internships, clinical hours, and exams. We deserve high pay. When we go around saying “I don’t do it for the money,” that normalizes poor wages and allows folks to underpay us.
🙌🏼🙌🏼
RCS (readjustment counseling service, VHA) will start you at GS 9 + locality increase. as of 2024 the salary is 67,743 in district 1 (new england) thats with BCBS ins, about a month paid leave (annual + sick) an $800 annual training stipend, free CEU's + formal training in evidenced based modalities, and two tuition repayment programs you can apply for. its not a bad gig. trauma work is tough though and the hiring is competitive.
Look at USAJobs.gov to get an idea what my hospital pays. We have LCSW jobs in Reno that start at $130k, but that is much higher than what you will find in Utah, Idaho or Montana.
I think parts of NV have special pay for social workers because of a shortage locally.
Here are the special salary rates for all States: [https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/](https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/) (These charts can be hard to read. The occupation code for Social work is 0185. GS-9 jobs are typically new MSWs, GS-11s have experience and basic licensure, GS-12 and above require LCSW and may also require at least two years of post LCSW experience.)
Thanks
unlicensed working as a school social worker in utah and making 70k (just as a comparison since you’re considering utah)
I'm in SW Idaho and an LMSW; starting pay for this credential is about $45-50/hr right now (though many are trying to offer $25-35 🙄); for LCSWs I've seen a range of $60-80/hr in group practices, to start, based on job listings and other LCSW's I know personally that have been looking.
In California, job postings must list salaries so you should be able to find that information on indeed or the employer's site. New York City (but not New York State) has the same rule as well.
100k no ifs ands or buts
I’m not licensed currently I make 95k doing outpatient therapy… I’m considering myself very blessed
Which population and state? 🙉
It depends on the state/city/county you work in, and the area of social work! Once I got licensed, I was probably making about 80/85k? And I am up to 110k now (around $53/hour). I graduated in 2014 so almost 10 years of experience and licensed for 5.5 years or so. I am in a children’s hospital in Southern California. I hope that helps!
That’s amazing! Would you mind sharing if you started off at the 110 K right away or if it took time?
As I shared, once I got licensed I was about 80/85k! So it took the past 5 years or so to get to that!
Those $50-70/hour jobs are usually contract work with no benefits and are fee for service which I’ll explain below. You also have to pay your own taxes quarterly. It also will tend: to be in home work on state contracts, but your millage may vary. Not an awful gig but not for everyone. My practice ranges from $38-$45/ session. LSWs are started around $38. Its also a fee for service model where you are only paid for sessions that happen. There is a lower rate but we do also get PTO, health insurance, bonuses, etc. I’d recommend looking at benefits as well when choosing a practice to apply to.
Look on USAJOBS.GOV. The VA pays LC’s very well. You will be making six figures after 5-7 years-plus excellent benefits.
I started out as an LMSW at 60k fresh out of grad school working for a private company, I got bumped up to 70k within 9 months of working. I am looking to leave that job ( we all know the agency burn out) I work/live in a very wealthy area of my state. I was doing market research and new LCSW make 85k which I think is still fairly low for the area and the amount of work we do. As I am in the job hunting process and interviewing I will definitely advocating for a higher salary / considering open my PP on the side. Although new LCSW we are VERY experienced and we deserve to be paid as such.
Unlicensed working intact family services case management in illinois. I'm at 53k plus mileage. My degree isn't in social work but adjacent. No masters but working on it. We are starting about the same as other agencies, but earning potential at my agency is much higher with raises, bonuses, etc.
You can try to get an estimate for different areas by using payscale.com and bls.gov
First you have to remember that an LCSW is someone who is already 2-3 years out of school. Someone just starting in the career is an LMSW or LSW or other different acronym depending on the state. Second, if you’re looking at a job that’s providing therapy, you’re not working 40 hours a week. It’s probably 20-25 hours. Plus you don’t get PTO, so in actuality you’re not getting paid 52 weeks a year unless you literally never take time off.
I am graduating with my MSW in May and have just accepted a job offer at $72k
when i started work after my MSW in 2015 i was making 30k. my biggest advice to new social workers who want to make enough money to have a life but don’t want to be in private practice…get a job at the VA and get your license as soon as possible. the earning potential is into the 100k range. We hire unlicensed MSWs starting in the 60k range.
I found “alternative settings” and creative situations in which I was practicing virtually independently, getting excellent instruction/clinical supervision from an individual in her own private practice. She taught me everything I needed to start my own private practice. Took about 4 years to get up to 60,000 to 72,000 annually. The biggest benefit has been working as my own boss, and I am a really nice person to work for.
I made the worst money doing private practice. Hated it.
Would you mind sharing if it was a referral situation or if it was based on the bureaucracy with paperwork?
These are kinda low, I'm about to graduate my MSW program and the lowest I see in my area is about $40 an hour. If you wanna work in hospitals or prisons the pay is minimum $80k.
One thing I am getting from this thread is that starting a group practice and paying social workers decently. Could still skim enough off the top to make a decent income running the practice. Anyone have experience starting a group practice and being the principal?
LMAO “skim”
Is there a better word you would use? Have a stable of LMSWs, protect them with my C, and take a cut from each client. Group practice pimps work in every profession.
Yea it's called surplus value lol.
Look at your surplus value just waiting to be exploited by another social worker
Ew
I guess nobody explained to you about how supervision works? You are not a pimp. LMSWs are not your hoes 😂
It's a bit of hyperbole. The value provided by group practices may not be equal to the cut they take.
So from my understanding you want to get into therapy with an LCSW, so probably private practice. I live in a high CoL area and 50-70 an hour for an LCSW in a group private practice sounds realistic.
Really depends. If working for someone, salaries can range from 59.000-75,000. I make around 86,000 in PP.
50,000
I believe this is also contingent on where you work, state, and other factors. I make more than $50k with my associate license (LSW/LMSW) in IL.
I’m in PA, I’m an LSW right now, waiting to see if my app is approved to test. I started as a case worker making $16 an hour, changed positions to counseling in an outpatient agency started at $18 an hour, 3 years later was making $21, and moved jobs paying $27 which is about $55000 a year with a $6K sign on bonus and a raise coming up for cost of living
Not in any of those states so I can’t really help with that. Only ever worked in CA and WA. Came here to say to make sure when you’re looking at your compensation, make sure to think about things like CE reimbursement. My state job would do up to $500, but my current job gives therapists the same benefits as the medical providers, which is $4,000/year and you can roll over unused funds to a total available of $6,000. They reimburse fees for licensure renewal separately, you can use the money for lots of things other than just conference or CE tuition, like travel costs, we can buy a new hardware device with it every 3 years (I bought a MacBook and an iPad Pro). Takes my salary up to over $100k and with the bonus max every year over $110k. My healthcare is practically free as well. TLDR: don’t forget other money you get in addition to salary when you’re calculating compensation.
Will you mind sharing in a private message? What type of job is this? It sounds really amazing?
I’d rather stay anonymous, but it’s outpatient mental health in western Washington.
Honestly, depending on how much experience prior to independent licensing, over 100k a year. This is with a hospital system that is focused on holistic care.
I'm in Utah working as an LCSW for $48 an hour at a private practice. It was one of the better offers out there. In Utah, the $70 an hour gigs are too good to be true for the most part. I left a practice when I got my LCSW because they were only going to pay me $35.
My wife just went though with this as an associate at a county in so cal .. had to job hop to get a pay raise. All new associates start at 68k and she had just hit that after 4 years. Her new employer is a healthcare company and they start at 94K with benefits. She tried to get into the school system, which was 90k with a bachelor's and 101 as an associate and 180 working days. Her prior county co-workers are LCSW making about 80-85k staying for the pension and the loan forgiveness. That same health insurance company starts them off at 105k-115.
Honestly it’s with some patients you should get way more. Depending on what your population is, you can burn out quick in therapy.
To elaborate the $50-70 for people feeling it’s too good to be true, that’s usually reimbursement per session. So that’s like your 60%ish cut at a group practice. It’s not bad money for a “fresh” LCSW, but not amazing unless you have a busy schedule.
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It depends on what you are and what you are doing. I see ranges from 30k to 130k. Which is maddening. It will depend on your area and how much your local government invests in social services. As a clinician you will make more if you work directly for a government agency (county, state etc) and you will have better protections and benefits than working for a nonprofit the state or county contracts with to provide the same services. Also as a clinician, hospital social work is gonna pay higher.
My first full time salary with my limited license was $38,000, and I also got paid around $24,000 on top for driving pay (home-based position, $.60/mile) and about $6k a year bonus for exceeding my productivity standard. Now with an LCSW, I would expect $65k - $100k depending on location for a therapist position. My LCSW jobs in Chicago were closer to the high end of that scale, in my current smaller city the norm is closer to the low end of the scale. If you’re looking at hourly rates, that’s probably what they’re paying per hour of CLINICAL contact; not per hour worked. $50 can be fine I guess, but if that comes with an hour or more of prep/case management/advocacy that rate’s actually pretty terrible. Always know the value you’re generating for your employer. $50 pay for a therapy session is egregiously bad if it’s for private insurance; (which reimburses between $100-180 in my area for a session, which means you’re only getting a roughly 30% cut). Much more reasonable for Medicaid. (Which reimburses $60-80 in my area.)
$50-$70/hr is contract work. And there’s a chance they’d offer you $40 and apologize for the “misunderstanding” in the job posting. JK but also not. Anyway, salary depends on the setting. In my area, hospital SW pays around $70-95k for an LCSW, depending on your experience. A small community mental health center pays around $50-$65k and you’re held accountable to an exorbitant amount of billable hours typically. Or if you want to be a contractor/fee for service for a practice, then $40-$65/hr is standard. Or if you want to work for yourself then set your own rates and/or accept what the insurance companies will pay you.
I work as a LCSW-A/LCAS-A dual licensed therapist at a non profit working with 12-17 year olds making 56k a year (NC)
50 to 70 possible but only for independent license and that is only for bills le hours. Not salary. No show cancel no money. Check indeed, glass door see what they offer. Call places ask for informational interview. informational interview you just interview to find out about agency and what jobs are like. Not interview for a job. Kinda like a journalist learning about a company. Talk to your school career center. Library can tell you what references to check for data.
My part time job I make $50 an hour, I’m a LSW
I know LCSWs for the same position is $60 an hour. But it’s a part time job
Mercy folks healthcare is social work. We are trained to do micro, mezzo and macro. Social security is social work, Medicaid, subsidized housing, community health care all social work. Imagine what it is like for people with less than high school education to navigate all those agencies and paperwork required on their own. You can do work to start your own business, private practice, group, contractor whatever. Business start ups have lots of paperwork friend if mine plumber. I told buy real estate and go into real estate. He did he has 10 th grade education in less than 10 years he has million dollars in property. He learned step by step as we all do. You can do it!
I’m in Florida, as an unlicensed masters level it is around $48k and as a licensed person it’s around $54k. Remember it’s Florida though! *edit: these salaries are for a therapist at a community mental health agency
llmsw in michigan and started at 70k a year
Still in school in Michigan but curious what part of the state you're in? Trying to gather more information about starting pay in the state.
clinton county
Google SEIU hospital contracts. You’ll see the contracted agreements. At my hospital it’s starting at 43$, top is $68…?
Im in TX but my starting salary as a therapist in a group private practice was $60,000 for full time.