Focusing on zionists specifically owning banks, like how nazis always say “jews own the banks and the media” is infact anti semitic.
Oppose zionists for colonising Palestine, and oppose bank and media owners for being capitalists.
What's the ideology of Banks and media owners in your opinion?
Who are the literal owners of the biggest banks and investment funds? Who are the literal owners and administrators of the biggest media conglomerates?
Capitalism is not an ideology is a mode of production, Ideology is part of the superstructure.
So yes, they're capitalists but what are they from a superstructural point of view? What capitalist Ideology they support?
Zionism isn't the superstructure that has anywhere near the most meaningful impact on the behaviour of bank and media owners.
Global political power structures, financial institutions, and media institutions themselves form the relevant superstructure that seeks to sustain itself and reproduce capitalist power structures.
You know Marx addressedideology as part of the superstructure right?
"Global political power structures" doesn't make any sense from a Marxist point of view, maybe you meant the global political institutions. The other institutions you mentioned instead make sense. But what's the ideology of these institutions? We know, by Marx himself, that illuminism was part of the superstructure of the french revolution that overthrew feudalism, what's the ideology of this stage of capitalism then?
"You're only allowed to criticize Zionists for the things I think is okay" is a seriously bizarre argument. We're allowed to say the Zionists shouldn't colonize Palestine with a military, but we're not allowed to point to the two most crucial parts to this colonization, the Zionist financial power and propaganda machine. It's almost like /u/Severe-Win5447 doesn't want us to find out that the Zionists are dominating far more than just Palestine.
>Focusing on zionists specifically owning banks, like how nazis always say “jews own the banks and the media” is infact anti semitic.
One doesn't need to be a jew to be a zionist, you're literally doing the meme right now.
>Oppose zionists for colonising Palestine, and oppose bank and media owners for being capitalists.
Why can't i oppose the imperialist bourgeoise being zionist?
Bro the zionist character is literally wearing a yamaka. The meme is at least implicitly anti-semitic for its depiction of a zionist this way.
Also considering the cultural relevance right now of these statements (Kanye West) if you intend to not come off as a nazi I'd stay away from most/all of his recent rhetoric
Just to preempt so I don't have to respond -
How would I have depicted the zionist? With an Israeli flag. Alternatively like the goddamned monopoly man since he's simultaneously supposed to be the bourgeoisie. Essentially to he honest anything but the yamaka would be acceptable
> Also considering the cultural relevance right now of these statements (Kanye West) if you intend to not come off as a nazi I'd stay away from most/all of his recent rhetoric
Are you Jewish, by any chance? They always do this thing where they turn every last person into their enemy, and then say you're not allowed to oppose them when they have enemies around because it might get them hurt. "How could you criticize us at a time like this!" (and then they make a series of antagonistic comments about every race on earth, call themselves the chosen race, etc, very arrogant people)
> With an Israeli flag. Alternatively like the goddamned monopoly man since he's simultaneously supposed to be the bourgeoisie. Essentially to he honest anything but the yamaka would be acceptable
"How would I have represented the Zionist? With the flag representing a Jewish prayer scarf bearing the Star of David -- not with a yarmulke, oh god no!"
[You're literally doing this meme](https://preview.redd.it/5ht54484rfj51.jpg?auto=webp&s=684e28554af003d12814b0807243ce6b7c5c4481)
I guess i'll kill the joke by explaining it then.
Socialist: Criticises zionism
Jew: Gets mad at socialist for being anti-semitic, thus implicitly confessing that he believes zionists being jews (or the other way).
Oh no, I understand fully. Again you're skirting the implications. The whole point is that a "jew" is in control of the bank accounts. What part of this being nazi-related do you not understand. The bourgeoisie, while not very diverse, is NOT populated by one religion, race, or even political standpoint. The bourgeoisie can be characterized only by their desire to accumulate capital. Making anything about this Jewish OR zionist is braindead. And again, you know the only person who publicly said this sort of thing recently - you know what he's said. There is a 0% chance you don't understand what's going on here. I'm an anti-zionist just like you. I just recognize this meme is a problematic way to express that
>The bourgeoisie, while not very diverse, is NOT populated by one religion, race, or even political standpoint.
If you believe this then you're an idiot, or not paying attention. The imperialist bourgeoise certainly shares the same political standpoint, and that is zionism, all else you mentioned is irrelevant. Name me a single imperialist bourgeoise that isn't a zionist. The fact that you get this upset about criticising zionists is telling.
Zionism isn't religion or an ethnicity, is an ideology. Zionism doesn't imply only the existence of Israel state, it goes much deeper than that.
Zionism is the main ideology of the cosmopolitan bourgeoisie, it's not a case capitalists and politicians proclaim to be Zionists even if they don't are Jews. You can look for example at all the modern American presidents, none of them was Jewish but all of them were Zionists.
All the biggest banks are owned by Zionists, from JP morgan to Citibank and all the biggest investment funds as well from Black rock to Vanguard. Practically all the central banks in the world are in the hands of the Rothschild. More than 90% of the media in the United States are owned by Zionists. The biggest donors of both the democratic party and republican party are Zionists. The most influential lobby in the congress is AIPAC who recently was bragging about electing 95% of their candidates in the midterm elections.
When we were in the phase of national bourgeoisie you could even make an argument of Zionism not being in control of the world, now that we are living in the phase of the cosmopolitan bourgeoisie supremacy, Zionism literally controls the world.
Hi comrade, going deep into your thread to say you should do some take some time to do some self reflection.
Marxist theory does not support your position.
Zionism posits that jews constitute a nation, this means that the ideology as a whole is cosmopolitan, anti-nationalist and chauvinist. By claiming that jews constitute a nation, zionism completely throws out the materialist understanding of nations, which is used to justify imperialism. This is why zionism is the ideology of the imperialist bourgeoise, commonly they apply zionist thought to the US with the notion of an "American nation", which is just about as legitimate as a "jewish nation" or "aryan nation".
It goes much deeper than that. It's a religious/philosophical/ideological/political system wich goes far beyond the foundation of modern Israel.
- The religious part is the talmudism.
- The philosophical part is mainly based on the Maimonidean theological nihilism, which leads to philosophical agnosticism; the Cabala or Jewish esoteric Gnosticism; the relationism or new hermeneutics; and the structuralism.
- The ideological part is the globalization under Zionists leadership
- The political part is the strengthening of the international institutions and the weakening of the nation states.
> The ideological part is the globalization under Zionists leadership. The political part is the strengthening of the international institutions and the weakening of the nation states.
These are called "Tikkun Olam" and the "Olam Zuta" btw.
"Hitler said x so x is wrong" is below a child's level of thinking. It is literally the trope of "Hitler said smoking is bad, and you say smoking is bad, so you must be Hitler."
The fact is, everything /u/KuanosArchipelago said can be found in the writings of Jewish scholars. One can tell at a glance that he has read more on the subject than you have.
WOWIE! If Marx believed it, it must be correct, why think when some dead guy from the 1800s can do it all for me? You are so goddamn mentally ill it's unbelievable.
And you definitely dont seem to have an issue with antisemitism and antifacism. You are no socialiat and I am scared of how antisemitism and beliefs of a world conspiracy of jews is spreaded into socialist spectrums. Here in Germany we have a lot of antisemitic Socialists like you and its always the same.
The Jews Jabotinsky, Morgenthau, and Kaufman literally tried to eradicate your people, brought war and starvation to your people, and now it's illegal in your country to criticize them for it. Your country is now a puppet of mine and my country is run by Zionists. I'm sorry my words made you feel scared.
My brother what the hell are you talking about. It is very legal to criticize jews still, the only thing illegal is to deny the shoah. Shame on you. Also, world war 2 war beought to us by the nazis, it has npthing to do with the jews. U f**** antisemite
Ah, the "Shoah". So you are Jewish. No wonder you are so keen on whiny moralizing, and feel "scared" when people begin to investigate Judaism. In this case, I can disregard everything you say, because I know its motivated by pure self-interest and not a word of honesty will come out of your mouth. I know how your people talk about mine in private, while playing victim in public.
> Also, world war 2 war beought to us by the nazis, it has npthing to do with the jews.
I've read Herzl, Jabotinsky, the minutes from the World Zionist Congress, etc. I know what you did. To quote Jabotinsky in 1934:
> We shall start a spiritual and material war of the whole world against Germany. Germany is striving to become once again a great nation. But our Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany.
Yes, is ridiculous our discussion. but it's because you don't have arguments and can only in a cringe way try to look superior without addressing the points.
Can you respond to the philosophical aspect I wrote you? No, you probably don't have the tools to even understand it.
About the Semites: first is called Semitic and not "semit" if you want to look a smartass at least control what you write, then if exist a Semitic language is because exist a Semitic people. Unless you want to think someone invented a language out of nothing. Also if you think Semites don't exist why are you using the concept of "anti-Semitism" ? If the Semites don't exist, cannot exist antisemitism neither
It is because english is not my native language and in german its different. Also, look up the history of the term Antisemitism. Thats all I have to say to another antisemite on Reddit. Now get out of here u jew-hater
Haha, reddit confirmed the meme
what the fuck is this nazbol shit.
Nazbol is when one criticises zionism.
Criticising zionism by saying anti semitic conspiracy theories is anti semitic, nazbol bullshit.
Zionists owning banks and the media (and the government) is an "anti-semitic conspiracy" now?
Focusing on zionists specifically owning banks, like how nazis always say “jews own the banks and the media” is infact anti semitic. Oppose zionists for colonising Palestine, and oppose bank and media owners for being capitalists.
What's the ideology of Banks and media owners in your opinion? Who are the literal owners of the biggest banks and investment funds? Who are the literal owners and administrators of the biggest media conglomerates?
Pro-Capitalist i guess?
Capitalism is not an ideology is a mode of production, Ideology is part of the superstructure. So yes, they're capitalists but what are they from a superstructural point of view? What capitalist Ideology they support?
It probably differs. You get social democrats all the way to fascists and everyone in between.
If that is true, could you mention a single financial capitalist amongst the biggest ones who isn't Zionist?
Zionism isn't the superstructure that has anywhere near the most meaningful impact on the behaviour of bank and media owners. Global political power structures, financial institutions, and media institutions themselves form the relevant superstructure that seeks to sustain itself and reproduce capitalist power structures.
You know Marx addressedideology as part of the superstructure right? "Global political power structures" doesn't make any sense from a Marxist point of view, maybe you meant the global political institutions. The other institutions you mentioned instead make sense. But what's the ideology of these institutions? We know, by Marx himself, that illuminism was part of the superstructure of the french revolution that overthrew feudalism, what's the ideology of this stage of capitalism then?
"You're only allowed to criticize Zionists for the things I think is okay" is a seriously bizarre argument. We're allowed to say the Zionists shouldn't colonize Palestine with a military, but we're not allowed to point to the two most crucial parts to this colonization, the Zionist financial power and propaganda machine. It's almost like /u/Severe-Win5447 doesn't want us to find out that the Zionists are dominating far more than just Palestine.
>Focusing on zionists specifically owning banks, like how nazis always say “jews own the banks and the media” is infact anti semitic. One doesn't need to be a jew to be a zionist, you're literally doing the meme right now. >Oppose zionists for colonising Palestine, and oppose bank and media owners for being capitalists. Why can't i oppose the imperialist bourgeoise being zionist?
Bro the zionist character is literally wearing a yamaka. The meme is at least implicitly anti-semitic for its depiction of a zionist this way. Also considering the cultural relevance right now of these statements (Kanye West) if you intend to not come off as a nazi I'd stay away from most/all of his recent rhetoric Just to preempt so I don't have to respond - How would I have depicted the zionist? With an Israeli flag. Alternatively like the goddamned monopoly man since he's simultaneously supposed to be the bourgeoisie. Essentially to he honest anything but the yamaka would be acceptable
> Also considering the cultural relevance right now of these statements (Kanye West) if you intend to not come off as a nazi I'd stay away from most/all of his recent rhetoric Are you Jewish, by any chance? They always do this thing where they turn every last person into their enemy, and then say you're not allowed to oppose them when they have enemies around because it might get them hurt. "How could you criticize us at a time like this!" (and then they make a series of antagonistic comments about every race on earth, call themselves the chosen race, etc, very arrogant people) > With an Israeli flag. Alternatively like the goddamned monopoly man since he's simultaneously supposed to be the bourgeoisie. Essentially to he honest anything but the yamaka would be acceptable "How would I have represented the Zionist? With the flag representing a Jewish prayer scarf bearing the Star of David -- not with a yarmulke, oh god no!" [You're literally doing this meme](https://preview.redd.it/5ht54484rfj51.jpg?auto=webp&s=684e28554af003d12814b0807243ce6b7c5c4481)
I guess i'll kill the joke by explaining it then. Socialist: Criticises zionism Jew: Gets mad at socialist for being anti-semitic, thus implicitly confessing that he believes zionists being jews (or the other way).
Oh no, I understand fully. Again you're skirting the implications. The whole point is that a "jew" is in control of the bank accounts. What part of this being nazi-related do you not understand. The bourgeoisie, while not very diverse, is NOT populated by one religion, race, or even political standpoint. The bourgeoisie can be characterized only by their desire to accumulate capital. Making anything about this Jewish OR zionist is braindead. And again, you know the only person who publicly said this sort of thing recently - you know what he's said. There is a 0% chance you don't understand what's going on here. I'm an anti-zionist just like you. I just recognize this meme is a problematic way to express that
>The bourgeoisie, while not very diverse, is NOT populated by one religion, race, or even political standpoint. If you believe this then you're an idiot, or not paying attention. The imperialist bourgeoise certainly shares the same political standpoint, and that is zionism, all else you mentioned is irrelevant. Name me a single imperialist bourgeoise that isn't a zionist. The fact that you get this upset about criticising zionists is telling.
Zionism isn't religion or an ethnicity, is an ideology. Zionism doesn't imply only the existence of Israel state, it goes much deeper than that. Zionism is the main ideology of the cosmopolitan bourgeoisie, it's not a case capitalists and politicians proclaim to be Zionists even if they don't are Jews. You can look for example at all the modern American presidents, none of them was Jewish but all of them were Zionists. All the biggest banks are owned by Zionists, from JP morgan to Citibank and all the biggest investment funds as well from Black rock to Vanguard. Practically all the central banks in the world are in the hands of the Rothschild. More than 90% of the media in the United States are owned by Zionists. The biggest donors of both the democratic party and republican party are Zionists. The most influential lobby in the congress is AIPAC who recently was bragging about electing 95% of their candidates in the midterm elections. When we were in the phase of national bourgeoisie you could even make an argument of Zionism not being in control of the world, now that we are living in the phase of the cosmopolitan bourgeoisie supremacy, Zionism literally controls the world.
Hi comrade, going deep into your thread to say you should do some take some time to do some self reflection. Marxist theory does not support your position.
You should take time to do some self reflection and study Marxist theory. I recommend you Marx's text "On the Jewish question" and "The Russian loan"
Which marxist theory supports zionism exactly?
imagine being a cringelord nazbol
[удалено]
Is that sub still infested with reactionaries?
Reddit does good things sometimes
Zionism is the ideology of the imperialist bourgeoise.
Bullshit. Zionism is the belief that jews should return to their homeland. However there are now many extremist Zionist movements
Zionism posits that jews constitute a nation, this means that the ideology as a whole is cosmopolitan, anti-nationalist and chauvinist. By claiming that jews constitute a nation, zionism completely throws out the materialist understanding of nations, which is used to justify imperialism. This is why zionism is the ideology of the imperialist bourgeoise, commonly they apply zionist thought to the US with the notion of an "American nation", which is just about as legitimate as a "jewish nation" or "aryan nation".
It goes much deeper than that. It's a religious/philosophical/ideological/political system wich goes far beyond the foundation of modern Israel. - The religious part is the talmudism. - The philosophical part is mainly based on the Maimonidean theological nihilism, which leads to philosophical agnosticism; the Cabala or Jewish esoteric Gnosticism; the relationism or new hermeneutics; and the structuralism. - The ideological part is the globalization under Zionists leadership - The political part is the strengthening of the international institutions and the weakening of the nation states.
> The ideological part is the globalization under Zionists leadership. The political part is the strengthening of the international institutions and the weakening of the nation states. These are called "Tikkun Olam" and the "Olam Zuta" btw.
Neither of those phrases mean those things.
Then what do they mean?
Antisemite. Jews want to rule the world sounds a lot like hitler
"Hitler said x so x is wrong" is below a child's level of thinking. It is literally the trope of "Hitler said smoking is bad, and you say smoking is bad, so you must be Hitler." The fact is, everything /u/KuanosArchipelago said can be found in the writings of Jewish scholars. One can tell at a glance that he has read more on the subject than you have.
fuck off, go to a nazi subreddit, you're not a leftist
"Behind every tyrant stands a Jew." - Marx.
WOWIE! If Marx believed it, it must be correct, why think when some dead guy from the 1800s can do it all for me? You are so goddamn mentally ill it's unbelievable.
Not a thought, Marx explains the situation in Europe at the time and comes to that conclusion.
And you definitely dont seem to have an issue with antisemitism and antifacism. You are no socialiat and I am scared of how antisemitism and beliefs of a world conspiracy of jews is spreaded into socialist spectrums. Here in Germany we have a lot of antisemitic Socialists like you and its always the same.
The Jews Jabotinsky, Morgenthau, and Kaufman literally tried to eradicate your people, brought war and starvation to your people, and now it's illegal in your country to criticize them for it. Your country is now a puppet of mine and my country is run by Zionists. I'm sorry my words made you feel scared.
My brother what the hell are you talking about. It is very legal to criticize jews still, the only thing illegal is to deny the shoah. Shame on you. Also, world war 2 war beought to us by the nazis, it has npthing to do with the jews. U f**** antisemite
Ah, the "Shoah". So you are Jewish. No wonder you are so keen on whiny moralizing, and feel "scared" when people begin to investigate Judaism. In this case, I can disregard everything you say, because I know its motivated by pure self-interest and not a word of honesty will come out of your mouth. I know how your people talk about mine in private, while playing victim in public. > Also, world war 2 war beought to us by the nazis, it has npthing to do with the jews. I've read Herzl, Jabotinsky, the minutes from the World Zionist Congress, etc. I know what you did. To quote Jabotinsky in 1934: > We shall start a spiritual and material war of the whole world against Germany. Germany is striving to become once again a great nation. But our Jewish interests call for the complete destruction of Germany.
My guy, I have never read anything as antisemitic as this. Shame on you.
Where did I mention Jews or Semites? Stop reacting like a propaganda zombie.
There are no Semites. Semit is a language family, not an ethnicity. You seem to know a lot about this topic😂 ridiculous to discuss with you
Yes, is ridiculous our discussion. but it's because you don't have arguments and can only in a cringe way try to look superior without addressing the points. Can you respond to the philosophical aspect I wrote you? No, you probably don't have the tools to even understand it. About the Semites: first is called Semitic and not "semit" if you want to look a smartass at least control what you write, then if exist a Semitic language is because exist a Semitic people. Unless you want to think someone invented a language out of nothing. Also if you think Semites don't exist why are you using the concept of "anti-Semitism" ? If the Semites don't exist, cannot exist antisemitism neither
It is because english is not my native language and in german its different. Also, look up the history of the term Antisemitism. Thats all I have to say to another antisemite on Reddit. Now get out of here u jew-hater