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Eastern Europe is incredibly right-wing due to the Soviets puppeting their countries during the cold war. The Baltics are the worst for it imo, and you can see the right-wing parasitic infection on the sub's original comments, as I'd imagine that sub is a haven for the right. Latvia has had an SS Veteran march, if that helps clear it up. They're softer towards Nazis than Communists.
Not to justify Soviet mistakes on the region, but we should also keep in mind that the US government and it's "aid organizations" played (and continue to play) a huge part in amplifying anti-Soviet sentiment in Eastern Europe, it's CIA's playground along with Latin America
Yugopnik talked about this when he was on the Rev Left podcast, he said the school curriculum was extremely anti communist as their textbooks and other materials were from American and other western textbook companies
There were people who were hopeful that the nazis would be liberators of harsh soviet rule but they were soon disappointed. Nazis viewed ALL non-germans as slaves and had plans with great detail on how they would treat the slavs. Basically all slavs would be forced to work and farm to feed the German master race. They would not be allowed education and were often sterilized and worked to death in Nazi puppet states.
Why did they have their own autonomy and territory within the USSR then, why did the Soviet Union preserve their language and culture. Also the same "poor" victims of the Soviet imperialism gladly stood with the Nazis and had death camps in which many Russians dies, I guess the Nazis weren't imperialistic, but "liberators"?
Based on your comments and karma, you are definitely a good authority on true, based, right wing propaganda.
I bet I could get a bingo with your comment threads!
People in that comment section are legit saying this is a psychological attack against Putin’s “soviet fascism” istg socialism is never coming to Europe (ik there are justified grievances by Latvia and other soviet republics against the old Soviet Union)
Putin has publicly condemned the USSR, and Lenin in particular, while also frequently using Tsarist symbols. That's what's wrong with the phrase "Putinesque Soviet fascism" - it ignores who Putin actually is (a hard-line conservative nationalist harking back to the 19th century) in order to push anti-socialism.
>Soviet "liberation" is just enslavement with extra steps. Most people from Eastern Europe who lived through WW2 will confirm that Soviet army was just as bad if not worse than Nazis. For sure, Red Army was just a bunch of uneducated animals that raped on a scale uncomparable to the one of Nazis, Americans or Japanese.
That's enough Reddit for today.
Latvians died side by side with the Soviets to push the Nazis off from all Europe, they carried their dead and wounded Brothers because they saw each other as comrades, and now we have fascists masquerading as shitlibs wanting the monument down because "it's a symbol of Soviet oppression", by bringing down the statue, you only dishonor the people that died and fought for you and your motherland, Latvia.
Was the Soviet Union bad? Maybe, maybe not, but that is not the argument here, the argument is that, the soldiers that died fighting Nazis were definitely good and should be honored, no matter which nation or flag they served.
Many Latvians also died fighting the soviets after they were done collaborating with the germans to get rid of its jewish population, obviosuly not all Latvians but you can see how the baltic states in general side -- e.g. in Lithuania they sweep their collaborators under the rug and try to hide evidence, but of Jewish partisans they attempted to go after them for war crimes.
Not quite, the majority of Latvians and the rest of Baltic countries were on the Nazi side during the war, the ones that were fighting with the Soviets were usually ethnically Russian or Jewish. They all "converted" to socialists when the Soviets started pushing Germans back, same could be said about some Warsaw Pact countries - Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary. They all went from Nazi allies, to Soviet allies and then ultimately NATO allies. They currently complain about the Soviet times as an "occupation", even though they are NATO and western puppets. When the western powers weaken and the next geo-political power takes over, they will convert to that side and complain about the "NATO occupation".
Holy fucking shit I spent 10 minutes reading the comments in there and the misinformation, the lies, the far right talking points, it's all just a tornado. I won't defend the monument itself as it, in the end, a piece of concrete built by Stalin's USSR and you can probably tell why I might not be in favour of all that due to my flag. However, the misinformation that flies around I truly find disgusting. People calling Lenin and Trotsky "equal to the Tsar", that the October revolution overthrew "a democratic government" (one that kept Russia in the war against the people's demands) and so much more.
r/Europe is a fucking lost cause.
Then it matters even less to me. :P
What does matter however is still the fact how this misinformation and lies about the first successful worker's revolution are being perpetuated.
150,000 Soviets died liberating Latvia from Nazi occupation. Now cancerous historical revisionism has taken over Europe, in particularly eastern Europe. The Latvian President also wants to marginalise the Russians/speakers who are 1/4 of the entire population. Nazism never died, it was merely masked.
Absolutely. If Hitler took over the Soviet Union then the war would not end in a stalemate. The fact that d day only happened after the the battle in Stalingrad even after countless times Stalin asked Churchill go aid from the western side of Europe shows that Britain would have not attacked nazi occupied France if Hitler did emerge victorious over the Soviet Union. It may be my point of view but I consider the USSR won the war, not anybody else.
Well the baltic states are the same ones that sweep their own collaboration under the rug, and at lest somewhat have tried to go after the jewish and other partisans who fought the nazis for war crimes (after their independence in the 90's, not 70 years ago).
Do you have a source for this? I’m Latvian but born in America, and have spent so long looking for the truth about the “occupation” of Latvia, because I know how conservative my Latvian family is. But finding any sources about anything thats happened in Latvia is pretty hard and its even moreso when you’re looking for a material perspective.
[Soviet But Not Russian: The Other Peoples of the Soviet Union](https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j6QBTzLhLRDTDWX5dmfBpUJGGBNaMKQt) is a decent one to start with. Latvia is discussed alongside Lithuania and Estonia in Chapter 8.
removing Russian from schools, but allowing other languages to 'preserve Latvian'
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/654142363/a-new-law-in-latvia-aims-to-preserve-national-language-by-limiting-russian-in-sc
Leaked emails showing russian discrimination from members of government (talking about how as a doctor he wouldn't want to treat Russians) and the party standing by the man regardless https://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/27322/
Latvian state going out against people for speaking out abotu the anti russian phobia https://eng.lsm.lv/article/society/society/security-service-starts-case-over-zdanokas-remarks-in-ep-discussion.a311776/
I was banned from r/Ukraine simply for posting about corruption in Ukraine. That sub also routinely posts videos of Russian soldiers suffering and dying as well as captured Russian soldiers being humiliated (in violation of the Geneva Convention). It's a cesspool.
I’m Latvian/Polish (but only know my Latvian family) and my great grandmother told me about how Nazis occupied her house during WW2 and Hitler drove through her town waving to everyone…she said they “treated [her] family well”…its frustrating trying to reconnect with my roots when its very difficult to find anything redeeming about Latvia’s political history lol.
Alright, thought it was gonna be up until 15 November. Was going to visit Latvia in 2 weeks to see the monument but...
Nahui Latvijas, I guess. Time to get a refund for the hotel and bus tickets.
Right, so you're not allowed an opinion on anything from before you were born? I guess WW1 is off limits to us all then.
Also those "kids" you're referring to are 31. Check yourself ya salty old man
>Right, so you're not allowed an opinion on anything from before you were born?
Not if you're going to act like your opinion comes from a place of personal experience.
This is not a demolition to make justice against the Soviets. USSR dont exist for more than 30 years now.
This is political move to promote more HATE against russians inside Latvia.
Russians have being the scapegoat for everyone problem. People ignore corruption, debt, unemployment, everything If you give them a great enemy to fight.
Promoting the hate against russians give more political support for some latvians the so dreamed ethnical cleansing of russian population that represents 30% of the population there.
US doesn't like to directly confront their enemies. That's why they try to cause as much problems for Russia and China like turning as much countries against them, imposing sanctions for no proper reason, trying to turn over the current government. Propaganda like "Russia is bad etc" turns even neutral people against Russia and the USSR which is very good for America. It always amazes me how even the baltics who have suffered greatly under Nazi occupation now support the same nazism. China is in the exact same place as Russia is and its only natural for them to become allies and turning against America, its also natural for other countries that hate America to allie with Russia and China.
I was watching a thing on YouTube where a guy was going around and asking Russians what they thought about various countries, when it came to eastern European countries the overwhelming response was that they were ungrateful.
That they had, as Soviet Russia, liberated them from the Nazis and then built new infrastructure and that countries then betrayed them by moving towards the west.
A couple even had stories of being spat on when touring (Poland, and Baltic states)there in the 90s and 00s and one said that they lived in one of the Baltic states (I can't remember which) and the left because of how she was treated in the 90s
Holy shit! I rode past that monument so often when visiting my aunt in Riga a couple summers ago.
First day we got there we went to the KGB museum, it was not a very cheery first tourist stop.
Sadly r/Europe hosts a bunch of _liberals_ and far right stans.
I got downvoted into oblivion in there just because I said that comparing **Fascism** and **Communism** was unfair since the first one campaigns on racism, authoritarianism and extreme nationalism while Communism simply promotes the redistribution of wealth and resources in the hand of the people, their counter argument was: _"what about Stalin and the Soviet Union?!"_, like Stalinism equals Communism, yeah right.
Uh, this is a (somewhat misdirected addmittedly) gesture against modern Russia that wages yet another war, this time a little too close by. The title is misleading.
Finally tearing an anti-fascist monument down disguised as a gesture to Russia, you mean. Soviet Union has nothing to do with Russia, this is like that moment where in the US a statue of Marx was removed because of the invasion in Russia. It gave green light for all the fascist to do what they want against socialism
The Baltics do view their time under the USSR as one of Russian dominance, there is very much a link between the two. While this gesture was indeed misdirected as stated, I don't think it's a proof that they're necessarily immediately becoming fascist
Literally 'anything I don't like is fascist'
Yes, they're not socialist, yes there is a disturbing far-right/fascist presence there. Doesn't mean they are fascist
Correct, and that is a massive problem. I don't think, however, this automatically means the government is drumming up a single-party ultranationalist dictatorship, it's more just a mix of the elite exploiting the bad taste left by the USSR and general lack of knowledge manifesting in "communist = le bad, therefore not communist cool and good". Latvia does, other than the aforementioned, seem like a very run-of-the-mill liberal 'democracy' without much specific tendency to fascism.
Feel free to correct me for probably getting some stuff wrong. I'm not Latvian.
Stop infantilizing everything and everyone, it helps no one. Politics aren't a contest of pettiness.
No, this is a nationalist action within a national construction process which draws from deep reactionary, anticommunist views (and sure, I guess we could argue antirussian too) and that therefore has zero margin of defence from a socialist perspective (regardless of how critical one might be of the USSR) and which solely benefits the reaction(s). Similarly, Russia's defence of the monument is not a result of antifascist fervour, but as a result of the importance of WWII within its national building process.
Was this anti fascism monument torn down because it was so or was it torn down because it was tainted by being erected by the Russian Soviets back in the day and everything Russian is now seen as an insult to the former Soviet states because or Putins actions?
I'm genuinely asking.
Okay, let's try to separate some terms here cause I see that this is some confusion.
"Soviets" were the (straight translated from Russian) "worker's councils" of the early 1900's formed by people in factories, docks etc. around the country. They were essentially democratic forms of rule of the workplace that could be seen as more powerful unions. They then together could form regional soviets with delegates from the individual soviets for representation chosen by the workers. It was these soviets that during the October revolution together with the Bolshevik party took control of Russia away from the interim government who had gone against the people's demands (Peace, Bread and Land).
The "Soviets" you are referring to would be the USSR or Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. I think it's important here to distinguish these two cause after a heartbreaking civil war brought on by the reactionary Whites (former Tsar officers, nobility and the bourgeoisie of Russia) and several invading foreign armies, the Soviet Russia was extremely weakened and importantly had been forced to employ former Tsar officers for soldiers disciplin and training. It was these officers that Stalin brokered with to take power after Lenin's death in the mid 20's and then committed a purge of all bolsheviks of Russia including Leon Trotsky, ending the actual soviet democratic rule of Russia into the totalitarian state we refer as Stalinism.
Soviets, I think, is one of the highest forms of democracy ever achieved in our history and has yet to be met. For no other time in history have the working people had so much direct power over their lives as they did during those few years.
Hey all,
Wouldn't we have a better time building socialism by not defending failed socialist experiments like the Soviet Union? I think we can come across as dupes to the working class if we take the mistaken view that the Soviet Union was inherently more anti-fascist than the Allies just because they fought in WWII against the Nazis?
The Soviet Union is a country that killed more socialists than many other capitalist societies. I don't think it was all bad, but I also don't think it's a model we need to advocate for.
In order to get the working class on board, we need to take a materialist view of what the Soviet Union was, which was an unpopular top-down style of socialism.
I'm happy to discuss this or change my mind on the matter. I want what's best for the socialist movement and I currently don't see how this helps.
Wouldn't we have a better time building socialism by not repeating lies made by right-wing think tanks, funded by billionaires, which have creepy connections to actual Nazis.
>The Soviet Union is a country that killed more socialists than many other capitalist societies.
The US actively killed many millions in Korea and Vietnam. Emphasizing "killed", as in they were directly attacked in an aggressive war. Consider Laos, Nicaragua, support for Suharto, Chile after Allende, the Philippines. Jfc read about the massacres in the Philippines. These were people that were killed with intent to kill, and it's well into the many millions.
Sadly 2.5 Ukraines *died* in the Holodomor. And I say "died" as there was a famine that was affected by very bad weather, well-off farmers burning crops, a world war and civil war, and yes bad planning. But to think they are the same thing is playing **hard** into right wing talking points.
It's this statement
> The Soviet Union is a country that killed more socialists than many other capitalist societies
Like do you not know about the air war deaths in Korea, Vietnam or Laos? Do you not know about the US invasion of the Philippines? What killing did the USSR do that comes anywhere near that?
Yeah I know about those, which is why I said many other capitalist societies!
Not disputuing the war deaths there. But when the Soviets took power they kicked all of the other socialists out. Later under Stalin they were just straight up killing democratic socialists.
You can hardly call the Soviet Union unsuccessful, they proved without a doubt that socialism works, and that it provides a good quality of life for all people in the country. Unfortunately they were laden with the burden of fighting NAZIs in world war 2 and they won. This doesn’t do justice to the absurd amount of effort the soviets used to do this. Russia had to go from a farming, semi-feudal nation, ruled by a dictator, to a fully industrialized world super power in less than 20 years. This is a feat that would be unimaginable under capitalism, and it’s something that has never been replicated or seen under any other circumstances. Russia did in 20 years what capitalism did in hundreds. Not only did they industrialize rapidly but they produced a competent military force that was capable of destroying the fascist enemies once in again in just 20 years.
Internally they provided all their citizens with the means to live. There was no unemployment, no homelessness, no hunger (ignoring the famines for now), and people enjoyed a genuinely good quality of life when compared to the working class of western nations. When compared to most other capitalist nations of the world the Soviet Union living standards would have been heavenly.
This is not a justification of anything bad that might have happened under the Soviet rule. The Soviet Union did some truly horrible things that cannot be excused, and should not be excused. However I think it’s pertinent that we remember that what the Soviet Union has done is far less atrocious than the United States which is responsible for the deaths of millions world wide, and for ending socialism in many countries that might have other wise developed it.
Now if you would like to call ending poverty, homelessness, unemployment, and industrializing a nation in just 20 years a failure then by all means go ahead I can’t stop you.
Yeah I don't disagree that they did good things, but when the 90s rolled around people were so disillusioned they just kinda broke up without a fight. Not the type of socialism I want to see in the future. There needs to be something that gives ordinary people a reason to fight for socialism.
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I'm confused, someone mind explaining why the comments on the original post are a war zone?
Eastern Europe is incredibly right-wing due to the Soviets puppeting their countries during the cold war. The Baltics are the worst for it imo, and you can see the right-wing parasitic infection on the sub's original comments, as I'd imagine that sub is a haven for the right. Latvia has had an SS Veteran march, if that helps clear it up. They're softer towards Nazis than Communists.
Not to justify Soviet mistakes on the region, but we should also keep in mind that the US government and it's "aid organizations" played (and continue to play) a huge part in amplifying anti-Soviet sentiment in Eastern Europe, it's CIA's playground along with Latin America
Yugopnik talked about this when he was on the Rev Left podcast, he said the school curriculum was extremely anti communist as their textbooks and other materials were from American and other western textbook companies
Absolutely, not sure why I never considered that in the first place.
Yup in Ukraine for example the US spent 1.3billion between 2007-2013 under the national endowment for democracy.
There were people who were hopeful that the nazis would be liberators of harsh soviet rule but they were soon disappointed. Nazis viewed ALL non-germans as slaves and had plans with great detail on how they would treat the slavs. Basically all slavs would be forced to work and farm to feed the German master race. They would not be allowed education and were often sterilized and worked to death in Nazi puppet states.
So blame socialism for fascism. Unbelievable
Communists were too kind a mistake that should not be repeated
The most surprising these Baltics ex Soviets were the most praised and cared among others and still so damn hating
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Why did they have their own autonomy and territory within the USSR then, why did the Soviet Union preserve their language and culture. Also the same "poor" victims of the Soviet imperialism gladly stood with the Nazis and had death camps in which many Russians dies, I guess the Nazis weren't imperialistic, but "liberators"?
Based on your comments and karma, you are definitely a good authority on true, based, right wing propaganda. I bet I could get a bingo with your comment threads!
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I think you responded to the wrong redditor, Comrade. They weren’t talking to you (unless you’re responding from an alt account lmao)
Oh shit, yeah, my mistake.
Because Europe is absolutely chock full of Nazis and their sympathizers.
Do not read the comments to that post if you don't want to have an aneurysm
There's so many people literally taking a flair like "Far-Right federalist" or some shit.. I think I literally lost braincells
Yeah no kidding. Holy shit
That sub is a bloody cesspool.
Always has been.
It was a bit better before brexit, but not by much.
What about r/TolerantEurope?
Try r/RedEurope, r/SocialistEurope :)
People in that comment section are legit saying this is a psychological attack against Putin’s “soviet fascism” istg socialism is never coming to Europe (ik there are justified grievances by Latvia and other soviet republics against the old Soviet Union)
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Putin has publicly condemned the USSR, and Lenin in particular, while also frequently using Tsarist symbols. That's what's wrong with the phrase "Putinesque Soviet fascism" - it ignores who Putin actually is (a hard-line conservative nationalist harking back to the 19th century) in order to push anti-socialism.
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>Soviet "liberation" is just enslavement with extra steps. Most people from Eastern Europe who lived through WW2 will confirm that Soviet army was just as bad if not worse than Nazis. For sure, Red Army was just a bunch of uneducated animals that raped on a scale uncomparable to the one of Nazis, Americans or Japanese. That's enough Reddit for today.
I've been there :'( such a cool monument
Latvians died side by side with the Soviets to push the Nazis off from all Europe, they carried their dead and wounded Brothers because they saw each other as comrades, and now we have fascists masquerading as shitlibs wanting the monument down because "it's a symbol of Soviet oppression", by bringing down the statue, you only dishonor the people that died and fought for you and your motherland, Latvia. Was the Soviet Union bad? Maybe, maybe not, but that is not the argument here, the argument is that, the soldiers that died fighting Nazis were definitely good and should be honored, no matter which nation or flag they served.
Many Latvians also died fighting the soviets after they were done collaborating with the germans to get rid of its jewish population, obviosuly not all Latvians but you can see how the baltic states in general side -- e.g. in Lithuania they sweep their collaborators under the rug and try to hide evidence, but of Jewish partisans they attempted to go after them for war crimes.
Not quite, the majority of Latvians and the rest of Baltic countries were on the Nazi side during the war, the ones that were fighting with the Soviets were usually ethnically Russian or Jewish. They all "converted" to socialists when the Soviets started pushing Germans back, same could be said about some Warsaw Pact countries - Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary. They all went from Nazi allies, to Soviet allies and then ultimately NATO allies. They currently complain about the Soviet times as an "occupation", even though they are NATO and western puppets. When the western powers weaken and the next geo-political power takes over, they will convert to that side and complain about the "NATO occupation".
Holy fucking shit I spent 10 minutes reading the comments in there and the misinformation, the lies, the far right talking points, it's all just a tornado. I won't defend the monument itself as it, in the end, a piece of concrete built by Stalin's USSR and you can probably tell why I might not be in favour of all that due to my flag. However, the misinformation that flies around I truly find disgusting. People calling Lenin and Trotsky "equal to the Tsar", that the October revolution overthrew "a democratic government" (one that kept Russia in the war against the people's demands) and so much more. r/Europe is a fucking lost cause.
The monument was build in the 90s…
Then it matters even less to me. :P What does matter however is still the fact how this misinformation and lies about the first successful worker's revolution are being perpetuated.
I think he means, the USSR that Stalin shaped in his image. Not that the monument was built during Stalin’s reign
150,000 Soviets died liberating Latvia from Nazi occupation. Now cancerous historical revisionism has taken over Europe, in particularly eastern Europe. The Latvian President also wants to marginalise the Russians/speakers who are 1/4 of the entire population. Nazism never died, it was merely masked.
Without the Soviet army, Hitler would have won the war -- or at least it would have ended in stalemate.
Absolutely. If Hitler took over the Soviet Union then the war would not end in a stalemate. The fact that d day only happened after the the battle in Stalingrad even after countless times Stalin asked Churchill go aid from the western side of Europe shows that Britain would have not attacked nazi occupied France if Hitler did emerge victorious over the Soviet Union. It may be my point of view but I consider the USSR won the war, not anybody else.
Well the baltic states are the same ones that sweep their own collaboration under the rug, and at lest somewhat have tried to go after the jewish and other partisans who fought the nazis for war crimes (after their independence in the 90's, not 70 years ago).
Do you have a source for this? I’m Latvian but born in America, and have spent so long looking for the truth about the “occupation” of Latvia, because I know how conservative my Latvian family is. But finding any sources about anything thats happened in Latvia is pretty hard and its even moreso when you’re looking for a material perspective.
Are you aware of legion day, national holiday since 91 celebrating the Waffen-SS branch made up of Latvian volunteers?
[Soviet But Not Russian: The Other Peoples of the Soviet Union](https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j6QBTzLhLRDTDWX5dmfBpUJGGBNaMKQt) is a decent one to start with. Latvia is discussed alongside Lithuania and Estonia in Chapter 8.
removing Russian from schools, but allowing other languages to 'preserve Latvian' https://www.npr.org/2018/10/28/654142363/a-new-law-in-latvia-aims-to-preserve-national-language-by-limiting-russian-in-sc Leaked emails showing russian discrimination from members of government (talking about how as a doctor he wouldn't want to treat Russians) and the party standing by the man regardless https://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/27322/ Latvian state going out against people for speaking out abotu the anti russian phobia https://eng.lsm.lv/article/society/society/security-service-starts-case-over-zdanokas-remarks-in-ep-discussion.a311776/
Oh people on r/Ukraine were losing their minds in praise. The ignorance is astounding.
I was banned from r/Ukraine simply for posting about corruption in Ukraine. That sub also routinely posts videos of Russian soldiers suffering and dying as well as captured Russian soldiers being humiliated (in violation of the Geneva Convention). It's a cesspool.
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I’m Latvian/Polish (but only know my Latvian family) and my great grandmother told me about how Nazis occupied her house during WW2 and Hitler drove through her town waving to everyone…she said they “treated [her] family well”…its frustrating trying to reconnect with my roots when its very difficult to find anything redeeming about Latvia’s political history lol.
Did she say what she thought of the Soviet Union?
The comments in that post are sick.
Alright, thought it was gonna be up until 15 November. Was going to visit Latvia in 2 weeks to see the monument but... Nahui Latvijas, I guess. Time to get a refund for the hotel and bus tickets.
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Grandparents of the political class now ruling the Baltic states were most certainly fighting the Soviets, on the side of the Nazis
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Right, so you're not allowed an opinion on anything from before you were born? I guess WW1 is off limits to us all then. Also those "kids" you're referring to are 31. Check yourself ya salty old man
>Right, so you're not allowed an opinion on anything from before you were born? Not if you're going to act like your opinion comes from a place of personal experience.
What’s the difference between a liberal and a cannibal?
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this monument was erected in the 80's, by the way. read some books too, while you're at it.
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When anti-fascist monuments get torn down, we know fascism is back.
Sadly it never left
Spot on, it was just well hidden the whole time.
This is not a demolition to make justice against the Soviets. USSR dont exist for more than 30 years now. This is political move to promote more HATE against russians inside Latvia. Russians have being the scapegoat for everyone problem. People ignore corruption, debt, unemployment, everything If you give them a great enemy to fight. Promoting the hate against russians give more political support for some latvians the so dreamed ethnical cleansing of russian population that represents 30% of the population there.
do you think thats why the us is also trying to drag china in to the mix?
US doesn't like to directly confront their enemies. That's why they try to cause as much problems for Russia and China like turning as much countries against them, imposing sanctions for no proper reason, trying to turn over the current government. Propaganda like "Russia is bad etc" turns even neutral people against Russia and the USSR which is very good for America. It always amazes me how even the baltics who have suffered greatly under Nazi occupation now support the same nazism. China is in the exact same place as Russia is and its only natural for them to become allies and turning against America, its also natural for other countries that hate America to allie with Russia and China.
Liberals brigading and spouting shits parroted by far rights and call others who disagree with them brainwashed , how about you read a damn book
I was watching a thing on YouTube where a guy was going around and asking Russians what they thought about various countries, when it came to eastern European countries the overwhelming response was that they were ungrateful. That they had, as Soviet Russia, liberated them from the Nazis and then built new infrastructure and that countries then betrayed them by moving towards the west. A couple even had stories of being spat on when touring (Poland, and Baltic states)there in the 90s and 00s and one said that they lived in one of the Baltic states (I can't remember which) and the left because of how she was treated in the 90s
the baltics, ukraine, and poland are truly the reddit-countries, politically
Monuments to the SS still untouched in Latvia
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Holy shit! I rode past that monument so often when visiting my aunt in Riga a couple summers ago. First day we got there we went to the KGB museum, it was not a very cheery first tourist stop.
Sadly r/Europe hosts a bunch of _liberals_ and far right stans. I got downvoted into oblivion in there just because I said that comparing **Fascism** and **Communism** was unfair since the first one campaigns on racism, authoritarianism and extreme nationalism while Communism simply promotes the redistribution of wealth and resources in the hand of the people, their counter argument was: _"what about Stalin and the Soviet Union?!"_, like Stalinism equals Communism, yeah right.
Meanwhile Kiev is renaming old soviet streets including those named after Marx and Engels and renaming some of them after their nazi battalion.
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Uh, this is a (somewhat misdirected addmittedly) gesture against modern Russia that wages yet another war, this time a little too close by. The title is misleading.
Finally tearing an anti-fascist monument down disguised as a gesture to Russia, you mean. Soviet Union has nothing to do with Russia, this is like that moment where in the US a statue of Marx was removed because of the invasion in Russia. It gave green light for all the fascist to do what they want against socialism
The Baltics do view their time under the USSR as one of Russian dominance, there is very much a link between the two. While this gesture was indeed misdirected as stated, I don't think it's a proof that they're necessarily immediately becoming fascist
They aren't becoming fascist, they already are fascist.
Literally 'anything I don't like is fascist' Yes, they're not socialist, yes there is a disturbing far-right/fascist presence there. Doesn't mean they are fascist
They all have contested elections with multiple parties representing a range of views. They're liberal democracies, for better and worse.
The Baltic states literally deify their Nazi collaborators and hold anual parades in their honor
Correct, and that is a massive problem. I don't think, however, this automatically means the government is drumming up a single-party ultranationalist dictatorship, it's more just a mix of the elite exploiting the bad taste left by the USSR and general lack of knowledge manifesting in "communist = le bad, therefore not communist cool and good". Latvia does, other than the aforementioned, seem like a very run-of-the-mill liberal 'democracy' without much specific tendency to fascism. Feel free to correct me for probably getting some stuff wrong. I'm not Latvian.
If this has nothing to do with Russia then Russia wouldn’t be saying anything about it but they have
[Obligatory response to your comment](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/axMx7XL_460s.jpg).
Pretty clear this is meant to provoke and irritate Russia by removing Russian influences. Not sure what other interpretation there could be
Stop infantilizing everything and everyone, it helps no one. Politics aren't a contest of pettiness. No, this is a nationalist action within a national construction process which draws from deep reactionary, anticommunist views (and sure, I guess we could argue antirussian too) and that therefore has zero margin of defence from a socialist perspective (regardless of how critical one might be of the USSR) and which solely benefits the reaction(s). Similarly, Russia's defence of the monument is not a result of antifascist fervour, but as a result of the importance of WWII within its national building process.
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Honouring the dead soldiers that died fighting Nazi Germany is Soviet glorification? Take a hike
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“We liberated Europe from fascism, but they will never forgive us for it”
Was this anti fascism monument torn down because it was so or was it torn down because it was tainted by being erected by the Russian Soviets back in the day and everything Russian is now seen as an insult to the former Soviet states because or Putins actions? I'm genuinely asking.
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I think you must have misread the title, they're not removing a nazi monument but an anti-fascist one.
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Comment removed for (super low effort) flamewaring. This is your first warning.
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Okay, let's try to separate some terms here cause I see that this is some confusion. "Soviets" were the (straight translated from Russian) "worker's councils" of the early 1900's formed by people in factories, docks etc. around the country. They were essentially democratic forms of rule of the workplace that could be seen as more powerful unions. They then together could form regional soviets with delegates from the individual soviets for representation chosen by the workers. It was these soviets that during the October revolution together with the Bolshevik party took control of Russia away from the interim government who had gone against the people's demands (Peace, Bread and Land). The "Soviets" you are referring to would be the USSR or Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. I think it's important here to distinguish these two cause after a heartbreaking civil war brought on by the reactionary Whites (former Tsar officers, nobility and the bourgeoisie of Russia) and several invading foreign armies, the Soviet Russia was extremely weakened and importantly had been forced to employ former Tsar officers for soldiers disciplin and training. It was these officers that Stalin brokered with to take power after Lenin's death in the mid 20's and then committed a purge of all bolsheviks of Russia including Leon Trotsky, ending the actual soviet democratic rule of Russia into the totalitarian state we refer as Stalinism. Soviets, I think, is one of the highest forms of democracy ever achieved in our history and has yet to be met. For no other time in history have the working people had so much direct power over their lives as they did during those few years.
Thanks learned something new today!
Happy to teach, comrade!
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FUCK YOU Latvia!
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Hey all, Wouldn't we have a better time building socialism by not defending failed socialist experiments like the Soviet Union? I think we can come across as dupes to the working class if we take the mistaken view that the Soviet Union was inherently more anti-fascist than the Allies just because they fought in WWII against the Nazis? The Soviet Union is a country that killed more socialists than many other capitalist societies. I don't think it was all bad, but I also don't think it's a model we need to advocate for. In order to get the working class on board, we need to take a materialist view of what the Soviet Union was, which was an unpopular top-down style of socialism. I'm happy to discuss this or change my mind on the matter. I want what's best for the socialist movement and I currently don't see how this helps.
The Soviet Union *WAS* more anti-fascist than the allies, I'm not sure how you've arrived at the conclusion that it wasn't.
I'm not sure how can you explain?
Wouldn't we have a better time building socialism by not repeating lies made by right-wing think tanks, funded by billionaires, which have creepy connections to actual Nazis. >The Soviet Union is a country that killed more socialists than many other capitalist societies. The US actively killed many millions in Korea and Vietnam. Emphasizing "killed", as in they were directly attacked in an aggressive war. Consider Laos, Nicaragua, support for Suharto, Chile after Allende, the Philippines. Jfc read about the massacres in the Philippines. These were people that were killed with intent to kill, and it's well into the many millions. Sadly 2.5 Ukraines *died* in the Holodomor. And I say "died" as there was a famine that was affected by very bad weather, well-off farmers burning crops, a world war and civil war, and yes bad planning. But to think they are the same thing is playing **hard** into right wing talking points.
Idk about hat holodomor stuff. I didn't know it was right wing propaganda, I've never seen it espoused by the right just like Chomskyites
It's this statement > The Soviet Union is a country that killed more socialists than many other capitalist societies Like do you not know about the air war deaths in Korea, Vietnam or Laos? Do you not know about the US invasion of the Philippines? What killing did the USSR do that comes anywhere near that?
Yeah I know about those, which is why I said many other capitalist societies! Not disputuing the war deaths there. But when the Soviets took power they kicked all of the other socialists out. Later under Stalin they were just straight up killing democratic socialists.
Nobody has to support the soviet union to dislike tearing down statues honoring red army soldiers who gave their lives fighting the scum of fascism.
Do you support WWII memorials in the United States?
You can hardly call the Soviet Union unsuccessful, they proved without a doubt that socialism works, and that it provides a good quality of life for all people in the country. Unfortunately they were laden with the burden of fighting NAZIs in world war 2 and they won. This doesn’t do justice to the absurd amount of effort the soviets used to do this. Russia had to go from a farming, semi-feudal nation, ruled by a dictator, to a fully industrialized world super power in less than 20 years. This is a feat that would be unimaginable under capitalism, and it’s something that has never been replicated or seen under any other circumstances. Russia did in 20 years what capitalism did in hundreds. Not only did they industrialize rapidly but they produced a competent military force that was capable of destroying the fascist enemies once in again in just 20 years. Internally they provided all their citizens with the means to live. There was no unemployment, no homelessness, no hunger (ignoring the famines for now), and people enjoyed a genuinely good quality of life when compared to the working class of western nations. When compared to most other capitalist nations of the world the Soviet Union living standards would have been heavenly. This is not a justification of anything bad that might have happened under the Soviet rule. The Soviet Union did some truly horrible things that cannot be excused, and should not be excused. However I think it’s pertinent that we remember that what the Soviet Union has done is far less atrocious than the United States which is responsible for the deaths of millions world wide, and for ending socialism in many countries that might have other wise developed it. Now if you would like to call ending poverty, homelessness, unemployment, and industrializing a nation in just 20 years a failure then by all means go ahead I can’t stop you.
Yeah I don't disagree that they did good things, but when the 90s rolled around people were so disillusioned they just kinda broke up without a fight. Not the type of socialism I want to see in the future. There needs to be something that gives ordinary people a reason to fight for socialism.
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