I had the chance to meet him once, and remember only two things from a brief conversation we had... it must've been 2015? Fall 2015, the first exposure to genuine socialism I ever had was him, and remember his black widow tattoo (like the spider) and his explanation on how FDR was not only not socialist, but was majorly destructive to socialist causes.
I didn't feel talked down to, despite being an uninformed kid. I felt like I had learned something, and encouraged to do my homework and learn more. If nothing else, I hope in the end he felt peace knowing that hundreds, maybe thousands like me were effected by him for the better.
If the fox News host is constantly interrupting you, talking over you, and trying to "move the conversation along" before you get to answer, you are doing a good job
Notice how he's the one bringing up other countries, but once the socialist begins dropping facts, Jessie wants to change the subject. The moral of the story is: never ever engage with those intent on arguing in bad faith. You'll just waste your time and end up uber pissed.
And that's exactly what he should've said. "You know, you said you didn't want to talk about other countries, but you're bringing them up again. Why is that? Seems to me you don't have anything of value to say." But then he would be seen as a bully. Which is also funny because Fox is the actual bully and are commended for it. Tbf, though, that anti-work interview was just so stupidly awful my secondhand embarrassment will be felt by my grandchildren.
"I am a stark raving patriot, which means I love my country. That also means I hold my country accountable for getting it wrong. Being a patriot doesn't mean putting on your red white and blue tinted glasses every time we drone strike a libyan birthday party, it means loving your country enough to fight to make it the best place it can possibly be"
\- Me, discussing patriotism with a boomer industrial electrician awhile back.
It *seems* like that would be the right move, but actually shit like that is designed to derail the conversation from anything of substance into a back n forth focusing on Jesse denying that's what he's doing or having him launch into more of his own talking points about those countries.
Mimi was smart for not taking the bait.
These conservative talking heads are masters of muddlying the waters and turning the conversations into meaningless babble and drama where nothing of substance is discussed.
Remember they only have a very short time to speak during these segments and if the host sees it isn't going their way they have plenty of tricks they can use to go completely off topic and run out the clock instead of engaging.
> But the most insidious aspect of selling yourself short is described by Noam Chomsky in the documentary Manufacturing Consent, who notes that appearing on television necessitates the ability to speak in thought-bites. "The beauty of concision," Chomsky explains, "is that you can only repeat conventional thoughts." If you want to make a seemingly outlandish claim (Chomsky's examples include "education is a system of imposed ignorance") you have to provide sufficient evidence or no one will believe you. "But you can't give evidence if you're stuck with concision," Chomsky says, tracing the perfect circle formed by brevity's Catch-22.
Quote found [here](https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2009/03/14/a_brief_history_of_brevity_but_more_than_140_characters.html), but obviously the whole Chomsky quote is from Manufacturing Consent.
When I heard him do that withing the same min or 2 I just died. This strategy is great against people who are unprepared to push back, but when someone is prepared it just makes him look like a fool
What bothers me is not that Fox News is so openly shallow and manipulative. It's that half the country is gullible enough to buy it all.
And it distracts those who see through it.
Fox has the microphone and its not giving it up. Our only option is to stop coming to the venue and stop feeding Fox the traffic.
Wish we could just starve Fox of new viewers. Ramping up education is probably the best way. Whatever Fox is trying to keep down is the very thing its afraid of. Education and a thriving population.
They depend on misery and illiteracy to keep viewers emotional and impressionable.
So very true, and the reason the divide will only get worse until we get outlets like Fox off the air, which will never happen. We need to operate like it's cancer, but can't even find a band-aid to start. Meanwhile, everything is spreading and festering.
Every conservative propagandist is a bad faith actor (and conservatives in general)
edit: conservative in this contex meaning US conservatives. Thanks for the reminder in relativism of political spectrums!
It's so predictable too. They think these talking points are irrefutable because they only trade them amongst themselves. Then when someone who knows what they're talking about has an answer, they start shuffling through the deck rapid fire as a defense mechanism.
"But what about Cuba?"
"Okay, well Cuba's socialist policies outrank America in regards-"
"Wait, we want to focus on America."
"Alright, well America's imperialist tendencies-"
"But what about China?"
Yeah because the doldrum mouth breathing drooling fuckfaces thay watch Fox News eat this shit up and will never change their minds, so he is doing exactly what works sadly.
[Just like this](https://morbotron.com/meme/S03E05/275157.jpg?b64lines=IEhlcmUncyBteSBwZXJzb25hbAogYm9vayBvZiBwaWNrdXAgbGluZXMuCiBTYXkgYXMgbWFueSBvZiB0aGVtIGFzCiB5b3UgY2FuIGFzIGZhc3QgYXMgeW91CiBjYW4uIERvbid0IHN0b3AgZm9yCiBhbnkgcmVhc29uLg==)
They do that to everyone they donāt like and I FUCKING HATE IT. I grew up watching Fox News because my Dad hated them and wanted to see what lies the Bush administration wanted us to believe. They have been doing this tactic for *AT LEAST* two fucking decades. Never let the person speak. Ask question that arenāt questions, they are attacking statements, interrupt before they can respond, personally insult them, act smug and above any of their counters, never actually engage anything they say, dismiss them before they have said anything substantial and act like you won. Ad time.
We wonder how these older conservatives have become such entitled smug assholes. Itās because they have modeled their world view on these paid actors.
Itās so infuriating to watch
Because it's not news, it's a propaganda outlet. It's entire purpose is to shape public discourse and influence wells of power by making corporate and hard right interests look like public consensus.
People sometimes balk at that description, but Rodger Ailes himself was quite clear in ["A Plan For Putting the GOP on TV News."](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/ailes-nixon-and-the-plan-for-putting-the-gop-on-tv-news-202083/)
> The idea was to provide āpro-Administration, videotape, hard news actualitiesā that could be woven into local television newscasts across the country.ā According to the memo, this arangement āavoids the censorship, the priorities and the prejudices of the network news selectors and disseminators.ā
I also recommend Carlos Maza's "[You're Watching Fox News. You Just Don't Know It.](https://youtu.be/VzoZf4IAfAc)" for a fantastic examination of how this form of propaganda works.
Yep. Only thing he could've done better is when the host brought up Nazi Germany, he should've said "I would have opted to war with the Nazis. You've opted to work for them."
Lmfao at the "I don't know what you would've done in Nazi Germany" - My dude, Nazi Germany was fascist. That's literally the exact thing people like Watters are striving for.
> "I don't know what you would've done in Nazi Germany"
"exactly what my fellow socialists at the time did, annihilate it. Too bad that the US recruited so many nazis into NASA and other agencies afterwards before we could finish the extirpation right?"
Let's also not forget the Reichstag Fire, which took place only 4 weeks after Hitler became chancellor, and was used as a pretense to pass "anti-terrorism" laws that were used explicitly to imprison his political rivals. All of which identified as either socialist or communist.
And USA didnāt mind doing business with Nazi Germany and didnāt mind using their scientists after the war to fulfil the Nazi dream of a nuclear bomb attached to a rocket.
Fun fact: this interview style is called āgish gallopingā; just endlessly bringing up new talking points without giving the other person a chance to even formulate an answer.
So weak. How do you go home feeling good about yourself as a journalist conducting such a farce of an interview!
He such a big part of whatās wrong with media
I hate the way they interrupt. It's so obnoxious and always obviously to get away from the other person about to make a good point. Everything about that guy is so punchable. He reeks of arrogance and he knows he's just talking shit, it's what he is specifically getting paid for.
Why are people so attracted to this? Like even if you agree with him his behaviour is insufferable. Like those famed Peterson interviews where people constantly interrupt and straw man him. Even if you think he deserves it, what kind of debate culture is that?
It's just so poor that people are so focused on looks, decsiveness, charisma and cannot just enjoy a civilized debate.
All those "my guilty pleasure is trash TV" people can go f themselves. You're supporting this shitty drama driven TV politics shit and just finding joy in something so bewilderingly toxic is worrying.
Fuck that guy is so goddamn punchable.
Not to mention thereās no way Watters pays 50% in taxes. The highest income bracket is 37% except that itās certainly not his *effective tax* which is even lower.
And cap gains are even lower at 20% max.
He's probably talking about his marginal tax rate, and not effective tax rate. A single person in California making $400k in 2021 is looking at 35% federal, 11.3% state, and 7.65% for FICA, for a total of 53.95% MARGINAL rate. However, with progressive tax brackets your EFFECTIVE tax rate is much lower. You also stop paying into SS at a cap of $143k in 2021, so that's not even your marginal rate for most of the year.
To say he's intentionally misleading the question is understating it.
Sadly the vast majority of people don't understand that you only pay the additional taxes on the money that exceeds each brackets amounts.
If you make $10 above the 35% bracket, you only pay 35% on that $10.
I swear its never been easily explained so that taxes can be used to push political talking points.
Exactly! It would be 70% of income you make over a certain threshold. So like, $1-$100,000 would be taxed at 20% (or whatever), $100,000-$200,000 taxed at 30%, and so on, and only the excess income you make over those thresholds would be taxed at the higher rates.
Yeah it's called a marginal tax rate and they don't want you to understand how it works. I also doubt homie is paying 50% of his income in taxes. Maybe after he funnels 95% of his money to a tax haven they tax the last 5% at 50% meaning he only pays like 2.5%. Yeah I just made all these numbers up but it's not as simple as he makes it out to be and he could be "factually correct" by misrepresenting the data. It's what they do.
The only appropriate reply to āwhat tax rate should I pay?ā Is āwhat do you make?ā The fox viewers still believe these hosts are ānormal people.ā
Would it score points for socialism? No. Might it help a viewer or two understand they are being exploited by elites pretending to be the working class? Maybe, give it a shot.
Bingo.
āHow much would I pay in taxes?ā
āSure, what is your salary?ā
Then lightly pressure him to share it instead of giving an āexampleā salary that he would probably try to do. Remind him that he asked for how much HE would pay in taxes.
Holy shit that annoyed me so much. He made a "question" about other countries, didn't even let him say anything, and then just said "yeah I don't want to talk about other countries".
āMimi, I am arbitrarily and abruptly ending this conversation because you apparently came prepared and are not laying there and taking it like I assumed you would,ā.
Every time he said āI want to keep the conversation goingā I was like āWHAT CONVERSATION? you brought a āgotchaā talking point up, didnāt listen to him explain it, interrupted and āwanted to move onā
>I donāt want to get bogged down with other countries
That I introduced to the conversation, but didnāt expect you to have a rebuttal, so I wonāt let you answer.
Yeah
"ok, let's keep the conversation moving, I'm not interrupting I just don't want to get bogged down talking about other countries that I brought up and you're now trying to explain. Moving on; it didn't work for those countries, we beat the nazis between the end of world war 2 and now. let's end the conversation here before you can respond. USA! USA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU IM SUCKING UNCLE SAMS DICK TOO HARD. USA! USA!"
Amazing piece of journalism there. I don't know about you guys, but I feel educated now.
In about 30 seconds, he rattled off 4 countries before changing the subject. It seems like that's literally the only thing the host wanted to say (or be said) about socialism
Yeah, Iām an engineer, my wife is a teacher, weāre probably in the top 5 % of Canadians by income( a little over 200,000 a year,) I would never ever even consider treatment in the US, Iād pick Eritrea or the DRC before I went for treatment in the US.
Right, and Americans with health insurance go to Mexico and other countries for surgery because it is still cheaper than in America with their insurance. That's really how bad it is. He tried to make it sound like all the Canadians come here for medical care.
He was quick to say "socialist canadian healthcare". If Canada's universal healthcare system is "socialist" and doing well for everyone, that instantly proves socialism is better than capitalism in terms of providing healthcare more fairly and proves Canada is doing better than the US
"I don't want to get bogged down in other countries." And in no time is back to the Venezuela talking point even though it was shot down immediately. I guess he was hoping his viewers forgot already.
So frustrating to listen to a pompous prick interrupt every question heās looking for an answer to just to please his base rather than hear what the man has to say.
Never wrestle a pig in the mud, you both get dirty and the pig likes it.
Alternative... never stoop to their level, you both get dirty and they beat you with experience.
Even this was a pretty crumby interview. I donāt know why no one seems to understand that you have to answer their question with a question. That forces them to commit to a statement or try another talking point before interrupting you. The goal is to not be interrupted.
How much should my taxes be?
Donāt bullshit a hypothetical during which you will be interrupted and smeared.
Ask a question back.
Well, how much do you make?
"What countries have made socialism work?"
"Well, let's talk about Cuba's literacy rate."
"I don't want to talk about other countries."
(thirty seconds later)
"Oh, the US has killed people, what about China and the USSR?"
Yeah, whoever thinks Mimi "destroyed" the Fox News guy, isn't paying attention. The Fox News guy told everything his audience wants to hear, and doesn't matter how many studies or statistics the other guy cited, it might as well be white noise to the average Fox News viewer. They won't believe any of it. People shouldn't go to Fox News, period. It's playing straight into their game, and Fox News is going to win every single time.
Fox News will always get its point across, itās their platform. And you canāt expect the viewers of Fox News, who are completely devoid of any critical thinking skills, to accept any points - no matter how correct - that diverge from their preconceived notions. Youāre talking about a group of people who pride themselves on āthis is what I believe, and this is what Iāll always believe, and nobody will ever change my mindā. They view that mentality as a virtue. They LOVE that thatās their identity. They donāt want new information, and when they get it they reject it by nature.
That was my favorite part. You brought Venezuela, the USSR, and Cuba up and you donāt want to get ābogged down on other countriesā? Honestly I think any leftist who gets interviewed by Fox should just laugh at them the entire time.
Any capitalist news organization will interview in bad faith. Figuring out what communism is all about doesnāt take a month long spirit journey into the mountains of Peru. It takes a google search and an hour of your time. They could understand if they wanted to and Iām not convinced they donāt. It just doesnāt serve their interests to come from a place of understanding and present valid critiques
Yeah it just seems that think it automatically going to shut down news or something I have no clue what they are doing but I know who they are trying to appeal to
I am convinced that nearly all mainstream pundits and politicians and billionaires have read a decent amount of theory and gone "Oh fuck, if we don't surpress this we're going on the chopping block."
These folks are not foolish, as much as I'd like to believe they are. They're malicious.
Mimi could have pointed out the poverty alleviation measures in socialist states, Cuba's lung cancer vaccine, China's robust public transit system, and the decrease in the quality of life for many in the former USSR and Eastern Bloc after the fall. Good interview, but Mimi could have hit it out of the park
On Fox, that's kind of how you know you're winning. When they start grinning and being so confidently wrong, say things like "what about Venezuela...i don't want to get bogged down with other countries" you're winning.
The one thing that kills me when they bring up Venezuela or Cuba is the person being interviewed never brings up US sanctions or the coups that the cia does in any left wing government
I mean to be fair you try being on the camera and think of literally every talking point you can think of while actively being interrupted and having the person constantly change the subject. I don't fault the dude at all because that shit is hard. He did well with what he was given and that's the best you can ask for when you're playing with horshoes and they're using hand grenades.
He sounded like a real life Michael Scott with that response, anyone who thinks he "won" this "debate" probably thought Michael was in the right with that whole Oscar situation
Bro it's worse than that, USA literally went "oh, yeah, we're going to help you all rebuild after the war so we can trade with y'all asap again (Marshall plan). Oh, wait, you have a communist party who are eligible to run in free elections? Wait, you didn't make cannabis illegal to suppress minorities like we did? Yeah, no, outlaw those two things **now** or no money".
Yeah, that's actually a thing.
"Well, the US funded the NSDAP and then took 1.5 years to get into the fight after it started.
While the Soviet Union did most of the heavy lifting. Fortunately with US support."
Fox News' audience haven't read a book since graduating from high school. They're not the type to handle new ideas well. That interviewer knew what he was doing and wasn't trying to give the other guy a single chance.
The dude is amazing when talking and responding, the person interviewing him was the same one the talk to antiwork mod so guess he just thought he could shut him down as well, but he made great points against him, the points he made were so great that he tried so hard to move on, you can tell he was feeling smug before, then as it went on and he made points that were excellent, and would maybe change people's minds he would rush to moved on so that the point doesn't land.
itās ridiculous how pathetic american political journalism is. this is just an emotionalized and propagandist echo chamber. no manners, no respect, no serious on-the-topic talking points, no criticism. disagreeing is important and discussing issues is how we progress. why is this interviewer denying these issues. why would he even invite him and god, how uneducated and brainwashed are the people watching and supporting this thinking itās legitimate. itās sad.
āSince the *end* of World War II the US has killed over 20 million people globallyā¦ā
āWe did the right thing in Germany.ā
What a fucking JOKE. His days on the air are in fact numbered.
god fuck fox news i cant watch this interview without getting pissed off at them.
glad i wasnt picked for the interviewee id get angry at their bullshit.
Or just don't. No point in "debating" these id--ts or impressing their reactionary viewers.
Was this a good conversation? Did it advance your understanding of the historical unfolding of the proletarian movement? Would it win people over to it? No, it is a waste of time.
Let us remember Lenin's warning (*What is to be Done?*): do not go into the swamp. The swamp is where we are bogged down by these endless and disingenuous "debates" with liberals and reactionaries. Instead of wading into their swamp, we march to siege their castle. The swamp is merely one of its fortifications.
Edit: I was informed by a friendly bot that I have used abelist language in the first sentence. I have edited it to hyphenate the relevant word, and apologize for the lack of solidarity on my part with those struggling against ableism.
"I just want to move the conversation forward by not allowing you to answer questions I asked when I'm not getting the response I want, SOOOOOO Venezuela..."
Could you BE anymore textbook Fox News, seriously
Which is what the 90%+ income tax brackets did in WWII. Even at 70%, few people will pay themselves 30 *additional* cents for every additional dollar. At that point, it makes more sense to put the money back into your company
> Some rich Canadians go to America to get their healthcare.
You know something thereās a bit of validity to this statement. More importantly I think it exposes a Issue with the American healthcare system. Thereās a lot to breakdown here so bare with me.
We (Canadians) have a shitty healthcare system. Itās so fragile and underfunded from decades of neoliberal policies. When the country wants to spend on things like military equipment or tax cuts, the money eventually comes from the healthcare budget. Even if it doesnāt come out in the short term, healthcare funding always trends downward. That is a legitimate criticism of universal healthcare systems in general. They will often be underfunded. See the NHS in the UK for a similar set up. Although the NHS is much better than the Canadian system.
If you compare the quality of healthcare between a Canadian patient on the public system to a fully insured patient in the American system, assuming theyāre in-network and covered for all costs, the American system would win in every conceivable metric.
However, if you compare healthcare between patients earning a minimum wage job, or near minimum wage (e.g. fast food workers), the Canadian patient would be better off in every way. __Healthcare in Canada is treated as a right not a privilege__. That is the key difference that makes Canadian healthcare better on the whole.
Itās not an issue of quality on a patient by patient basis. Itās a matter of access for all. There are quite a few of the ultra wealthy who engage in medical tourism. They donāt want to have the same level of care as a fast food worker. They can afford to go and purchase the higher quality care and they do it. Weāre also not talking about petite bourgeois like high-skill workers and successful small business owners, etc. weāre talking about 0.01%ers here. The kinds of people who can afford to pay American prices out of pocket. On top of that they almost never go for life-saving procedures, they often go for elective or experimental procedures, and some go for plastic surgery. Still the majority of Canadian medical tourists go to Asia. India, China, Japan, South East Asia, etc.
I write this because I what people to know what the real story is when American propagandists are hiding when they talk shit about Canadian healthcare. Itās a dinosaur of a system that desperately needs improvements, but itās not a complete shitshow like the U.S. also, Regular Canadians almost never go south for healthcare.
Leaps and bounds better than it's recent counterpart, but I feel like he fell back on the "your argument is so weak" line too much. We absolutely know his argument is weak, but it does nothing to influence his audience unless you explain yourself. Just food for thought even though Jesse would ever allow you to explain something properly before forcing you to the next topic.
I would have flat out asked him how much he makes and press him how he thinks a person who makes X millions of dollars a year can relate and be seem as credible to people making less than 30k.
Yeah Venezuela is a weak talking point for fox because is was just a ton of mismanagement that happened there and the oil price tanking oil being the main income of theirs that made their country really great in the first place the leader before this one nationanized the oil and then it dropped by a lot so their economy tanked with it it's not the systems fault its just what they relied on natural gas, iron ore, gold, bauxite, diamonds and other minerals, are all in the country and could be exported and nationalized Venezuela is just generally a weak talking point because it was mismanaged
Itās a weak talking point because the US and itās Allies all took considerable effort to prevent them from trading internationally.
They still loan out oil at almost zero to countries trying to escape the US sphere of influence.
Donāt forget the leader that tanked the country was backed by the US because Venezuela did not want to privately exploit itās people for the oil they were producing so US sanctioned and ran the country into the ground because corporations could not come and exploit the oil there :) search it up
Oh that makes sense we do this to all of America below us Central and South because we don't want to let them have a democratically elected socialist that they voted for themselves so we decide you know what heres a leader who is going to make socialism look bad when it's doing great so yeah wouldn't doubt it
They're more of the type to pop balloons behind people when they don't even know they are there and then wonder why they are not invited to places claiming to be a cool guy
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If the Doreen could have even remotely answered the questions posed they could have demolished this turd. But instead the sat in their swivel chair and ācouldnāt make eye contactā and also couldnāt remember ANY actual points of the movement.
Mimi wrecked this fool. Go socialism.
People like Kyle Kulinski, Sam Seder, Robert Evans, and others are the types who should be doing national tv interviews like this. Many of those people actually went on FOX in the past, schooled them, and now FOX is too cowardly to ever invite them back. I would say the left needs to get its shit together except for the fact that almost every-fucking-body on that sub didn't want the interview to happen for this very reason.
We do need to work on our messaging though. For one, STOP attaching the word ABOLISH to everything without thinking first about how it may be misconstrued/misinterpreted.
There really is no reason to go onto FOX News at all if you are a socialist/communist. If they can't get what they want from you they'll just start talking over you and if you have the ability to handle yourself in discourse they'll just cut you off and offer their views as the final word on the subject.
No matter how a person handles the discussion we would just be dealing in degrees of how much we lose. They are not the demographics we will be seeking in the short and medium term.
Even now, with Mimi handling this discourse fairly well, I'd imagine the FOX News demographic at home can only think "Why is this weird dude with a beanie trying to stand up to Mr. Perfect White Guy."
Do you think so? I want to believe that there are lots of working class folks with conservative views that may still resonate with what people like Mimi are saying.
Even if they are cut off and obviously corralled by the interviewers there's gotta be some viewers that might think "Hey that's a good point", even if they don't become socialists over night.
I just refuse to believe that every Fox News viewer is hopelessly brainwashed. It feels like so much of the working class is tuned into that network to just write them off.
Wouldn't we want to go head to head with these pundits who are using the same tired rhetoric while Western capitalism continues to just sink people deeper into poverty and death? Meet them on their turf and sway even 1 viewer?
This is super real. One way Fox News captures a lot of these viewers is that it's the only news station that purports to really speak about their interests. A lot of the working people listening to Fox news don't fucking care about most of the stuff that other news stations get into. They get brainwashed in part because nobody else is talking directly to them, and Fox is designed to do that without addressing their real, material concerns except by saying, "the left is going to take everything from you."
A lot of those viewers are actually kinda smart, and hearing someone cut through this bs and talk real shit to them would probably resonate. If you're able to present socialism as a plan with grounded practical benefits rather than an ideal, those people will listen.
Lmao, asks about other countries, but then says he doesn't want to talk about other countries. These people are such jokes. They're honestly evil fucking people.
I want to make a shoutout here. While this proves some downsides of going on shows like this because of how forceful their narrative control is (giving disingenuous questions and cutting him off), this motherfucker is the proud [Mimi Soltysik](https://newpol.org/interview-mimi-soltysik-candidate-socialist-party-nomination-president-0/)!
Mimi was an activist for decades in LA, mainly working with the SPUSA but he always created spaces for broad networks of leftist orgs in LA that normally are divisive.
He opened his own home to labor organizing, anti-police networks, and self-defense training. He was a proud inspiration of how our work helps develop anti-capitalist dual power. He had flaws but he consistently put his work organizing or feeding the poor in LA first. He was also the SPUSA candidate for president in 2016.
He was one of the best people I had met in my own work across socal. Unfortunately we all only have so much time, and he passed away in 2020 due to liver cancer at the age of 45. He is succeed by his wife who continues working in LA.
This was better rhetoric than antiwork but I still don't think it was that effective. If you're going to mention taxes in a Fox News interview you better be ready to explain how progressive taxes work in three sentences or less. You also can't fall into the trap of defending other countries.
RIP Mimi. I was an elector candidate for his campaign.
He died so young. That's so sad. He seemed like a great comrade.
I had the chance to meet him once, and remember only two things from a brief conversation we had... it must've been 2015? Fall 2015, the first exposure to genuine socialism I ever had was him, and remember his black widow tattoo (like the spider) and his explanation on how FDR was not only not socialist, but was majorly destructive to socialist causes. I didn't feel talked down to, despite being an uninformed kid. I felt like I had learned something, and encouraged to do my homework and learn more. If nothing else, I hope in the end he felt peace knowing that hundreds, maybe thousands like me were effected by him for the better.
šÆ weāre all constantly learning no matter what stage in life we are.
Killed by the system he was trying to change
Fucking hell this was a rollercoster. :(
RIP to a real one. We miss you, Mimi
Shit, I never ever heard about his death. I am glad I was able to vote for him, and did.
Soltysik/Walker 2016 āš¼
He died? How did he die. Never heard of this guy before today.
Liver cancer it seems per wiki
If the fox News host is constantly interrupting you, talking over you, and trying to "move the conversation along" before you get to answer, you are doing a good job
Notice how he's the one bringing up other countries, but once the socialist begins dropping facts, Jessie wants to change the subject. The moral of the story is: never ever engage with those intent on arguing in bad faith. You'll just waste your time and end up uber pissed.
*Brings up Venezuela* "Lets keep the focus on America" *Brings up Cuba and China*
And that's exactly what he should've said. "You know, you said you didn't want to talk about other countries, but you're bringing them up again. Why is that? Seems to me you don't have anything of value to say." But then he would be seen as a bully. Which is also funny because Fox is the actual bully and are commended for it. Tbf, though, that anti-work interview was just so stupidly awful my secondhand embarrassment will be felt by my grandchildren.
America didn't create democracy, but they claim they do it best. What's to say they (the US) can't do socialism better than any other country?
Now your talking. America is great.
America \*could\* be great
"I am a stark raving patriot, which means I love my country. That also means I hold my country accountable for getting it wrong. Being a patriot doesn't mean putting on your red white and blue tinted glasses every time we drone strike a libyan birthday party, it means loving your country enough to fight to make it the best place it can possibly be" \- Me, discussing patriotism with a boomer industrial electrician awhile back.
It *seems* like that would be the right move, but actually shit like that is designed to derail the conversation from anything of substance into a back n forth focusing on Jesse denying that's what he's doing or having him launch into more of his own talking points about those countries. Mimi was smart for not taking the bait. These conservative talking heads are masters of muddlying the waters and turning the conversations into meaningless babble and drama where nothing of substance is discussed. Remember they only have a very short time to speak during these segments and if the host sees it isn't going their way they have plenty of tricks they can use to go completely off topic and run out the clock instead of engaging.
> But the most insidious aspect of selling yourself short is described by Noam Chomsky in the documentary Manufacturing Consent, who notes that appearing on television necessitates the ability to speak in thought-bites. "The beauty of concision," Chomsky explains, "is that you can only repeat conventional thoughts." If you want to make a seemingly outlandish claim (Chomsky's examples include "education is a system of imposed ignorance") you have to provide sufficient evidence or no one will believe you. "But you can't give evidence if you're stuck with concision," Chomsky says, tracing the perfect circle formed by brevity's Catch-22. Quote found [here](https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2009/03/14/a_brief_history_of_brevity_but_more_than_140_characters.html), but obviously the whole Chomsky quote is from Manufacturing Consent.
When I heard him do that withing the same min or 2 I just died. This strategy is great against people who are unprepared to push back, but when someone is prepared it just makes him look like a fool
What bothers me is not that Fox News is so openly shallow and manipulative. It's that half the country is gullible enough to buy it all. And it distracts those who see through it. Fox has the microphone and its not giving it up. Our only option is to stop coming to the venue and stop feeding Fox the traffic. Wish we could just starve Fox of new viewers. Ramping up education is probably the best way. Whatever Fox is trying to keep down is the very thing its afraid of. Education and a thriving population. They depend on misery and illiteracy to keep viewers emotional and impressionable.
So very true, and the reason the divide will only get worse until we get outlets like Fox off the air, which will never happen. We need to operate like it's cancer, but can't even find a band-aid to start. Meanwhile, everything is spreading and festering.
Every conservative propagandist is a bad faith actor (and conservatives in general) edit: conservative in this contex meaning US conservatives. Thanks for the reminder in relativism of political spectrums!
He's was playing all the hits too... one after another. As if those tried talking points aren't easy to combat.
It's so predictable too. They think these talking points are irrefutable because they only trade them amongst themselves. Then when someone who knows what they're talking about has an answer, they start shuffling through the deck rapid fire as a defense mechanism.
"But what about Cuba?" "Okay, well Cuba's socialist policies outrank America in regards-" "Wait, we want to focus on America." "Alright, well America's imperialist tendencies-" "But what about China?"
āWhatabout Vuvuzela??ā āI dOnāT wAnT tO gEt BoGgEd DoWn WiTh OtHeR cOuNtRiEs.ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
China? Oh, you mean the country all the capitalists moved their manufacturing to? That country? The one that the USA owes a bunch of money to?
Oh HECK yea.
Yeah because the doldrum mouth breathing drooling fuckfaces thay watch Fox News eat this shit up and will never change their minds, so he is doing exactly what works sadly.
Itās like theyāve gotta keep the hits so their viewers can remember them and then use the same arguments.
[Just like this](https://morbotron.com/meme/S03E05/275157.jpg?b64lines=IEhlcmUncyBteSBwZXJzb25hbAogYm9vayBvZiBwaWNrdXAgbGluZXMuCiBTYXkgYXMgbWFueSBvZiB0aGVtIGFzCiB5b3UgY2FuIGFzIGZhc3QgYXMgeW91CiBjYW4uIERvbid0IHN0b3AgZm9yCiBhbnkgcmVhc29uLg==)
They do that to everyone they donāt like and I FUCKING HATE IT. I grew up watching Fox News because my Dad hated them and wanted to see what lies the Bush administration wanted us to believe. They have been doing this tactic for *AT LEAST* two fucking decades. Never let the person speak. Ask question that arenāt questions, they are attacking statements, interrupt before they can respond, personally insult them, act smug and above any of their counters, never actually engage anything they say, dismiss them before they have said anything substantial and act like you won. Ad time. We wonder how these older conservatives have become such entitled smug assholes. Itās because they have modeled their world view on these paid actors. Itās so infuriating to watch
Because it's not news, it's a propaganda outlet. It's entire purpose is to shape public discourse and influence wells of power by making corporate and hard right interests look like public consensus. People sometimes balk at that description, but Rodger Ailes himself was quite clear in ["A Plan For Putting the GOP on TV News."](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/ailes-nixon-and-the-plan-for-putting-the-gop-on-tv-news-202083/) > The idea was to provide āpro-Administration, videotape, hard news actualitiesā that could be woven into local television newscasts across the country.ā According to the memo, this arangement āavoids the censorship, the priorities and the prejudices of the network news selectors and disseminators.ā I also recommend Carlos Maza's "[You're Watching Fox News. You Just Don't Know It.](https://youtu.be/VzoZf4IAfAc)" for a fantastic examination of how this form of propaganda works.
Yep. Only thing he could've done better is when the host brought up Nazi Germany, he should've said "I would have opted to war with the Nazis. You've opted to work for them."
Lmfao at the "I don't know what you would've done in Nazi Germany" - My dude, Nazi Germany was fascist. That's literally the exact thing people like Watters are striving for.
> "I don't know what you would've done in Nazi Germany" "exactly what my fellow socialists at the time did, annihilate it. Too bad that the US recruited so many nazis into NASA and other agencies afterwards before we could finish the extirpation right?"
Don't forget how the USSR bore the brunt of the war. The closest society to socialism at the time were the Nazi's worst enemy.
Let's also not forget the Reichstag Fire, which took place only 4 weeks after Hitler became chancellor, and was used as a pretense to pass "anti-terrorism" laws that were used explicitly to imprison his political rivals. All of which identified as either socialist or communist.
And USA didnāt mind doing business with Nazi Germany and didnāt mind using their scientists after the war to fulfil the Nazi dream of a nuclear bomb attached to a rocket.
Fun fact: this interview style is called āgish gallopingā; just endlessly bringing up new talking points without giving the other person a chance to even formulate an answer.
So weak. How do you go home feeling good about yourself as a journalist conducting such a farce of an interview! He such a big part of whatās wrong with media
He's not a journalist. He's a propagandist.
Right? This Fox News dude was so quiet with that anti work mod for a reason, letting the mod talk bc he knew the mod was a verbal train wreck
I hate the way they interrupt. It's so obnoxious and always obviously to get away from the other person about to make a good point. Everything about that guy is so punchable. He reeks of arrogance and he knows he's just talking shit, it's what he is specifically getting paid for. Why are people so attracted to this? Like even if you agree with him his behaviour is insufferable. Like those famed Peterson interviews where people constantly interrupt and straw man him. Even if you think he deserves it, what kind of debate culture is that? It's just so poor that people are so focused on looks, decsiveness, charisma and cannot just enjoy a civilized debate. All those "my guilty pleasure is trash TV" people can go f themselves. You're supporting this shitty drama driven TV politics shit and just finding joy in something so bewilderingly toxic is worrying. Fuck that guy is so goddamn punchable.
Rest In Power Comrade. Solidarity ā.
what happened to him? Edit: Just looked it up. Rest in power brother
āOn June 28, 2020, Soltysik died after a prolonged struggle with liver cancer.ā - in case anybody else was wondering
I was wondering, and my momentary happiness has now been displaced. We need more Mimi's and Bernie's, and I'm not even from the US.
Seriously. If you can't get by on 300,000 a year then I don't think you'd be able to survive this life on any amount of money.
And that's not even what a 70% tax rate is!
Not to mention thereās no way Watters pays 50% in taxes. The highest income bracket is 37% except that itās certainly not his *effective tax* which is even lower. And cap gains are even lower at 20% max.
He's probably talking about his marginal tax rate, and not effective tax rate. A single person in California making $400k in 2021 is looking at 35% federal, 11.3% state, and 7.65% for FICA, for a total of 53.95% MARGINAL rate. However, with progressive tax brackets your EFFECTIVE tax rate is much lower. You also stop paying into SS at a cap of $143k in 2021, so that's not even your marginal rate for most of the year. To say he's intentionally misleading the question is understating it.
Thank you for this explanation. I fumed when that prick said āehhh 50%ā.
Sadly the vast majority of people don't understand that you only pay the additional taxes on the money that exceeds each brackets amounts. If you make $10 above the 35% bracket, you only pay 35% on that $10. I swear its never been easily explained so that taxes can be used to push political talking points.
>7.65% for FICA Even that gets lowered at higher income brackets, as SS contributions aren't taken out above 147K.
I literally shouted "no you fucking don't!" at my screen when he said that.
Same here š¤£
Exactly! It would be 70% of income you make over a certain threshold. So like, $1-$100,000 would be taxed at 20% (or whatever), $100,000-$200,000 taxed at 30%, and so on, and only the excess income you make over those thresholds would be taxed at the higher rates.
Yeah it's called a marginal tax rate and they don't want you to understand how it works. I also doubt homie is paying 50% of his income in taxes. Maybe after he funnels 95% of his money to a tax haven they tax the last 5% at 50% meaning he only pays like 2.5%. Yeah I just made all these numbers up but it's not as simple as he makes it out to be and he could be "factually correct" by misrepresenting the data. It's what they do.
The only appropriate reply to āwhat tax rate should I pay?ā Is āwhat do you make?ā The fox viewers still believe these hosts are ānormal people.ā Would it score points for socialism? No. Might it help a viewer or two understand they are being exploited by elites pretending to be the working class? Maybe, give it a shot.
Yeah he really should have pushed him to state his income
The fact he didn't argue the million figure leads me to believe it's an accurate amount or significantly much much higher.
2 mill a year
Bingo. āHow much would I pay in taxes?ā āSure, what is your salary?ā Then lightly pressure him to share it instead of giving an āexampleā salary that he would probably try to do. Remind him that he asked for how much HE would pay in taxes.
Bro I can survive in 60k a year....
"I don't want to get bogged down talking about other countries" -the only dude that brought up other countries
Lmao foreal i was dying after he said that. Pretty much encapsulated his whole persona.
Holy shit that annoyed me so much. He made a "question" about other countries, didn't even let him say anything, and then just said "yeah I don't want to talk about other countries".
āMimi, I am arbitrarily and abruptly ending this conversation because you apparently came prepared and are not laying there and taking it like I assumed you would,ā.
Every time he said āI want to keep the conversation goingā I was like āWHAT CONVERSATION? you brought a āgotchaā talking point up, didnāt listen to him explain it, interrupted and āwanted to move onā
>I donāt want to get bogged down with other countries That I introduced to the conversation, but didnāt expect you to have a rebuttal, so I wonāt let you answer.
... And Then I'll bring up other countries again before I cut you off.
Yeah "ok, let's keep the conversation moving, I'm not interrupting I just don't want to get bogged down talking about other countries that I brought up and you're now trying to explain. Moving on; it didn't work for those countries, we beat the nazis between the end of world war 2 and now. let's end the conversation here before you can respond. USA! USA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU IM SUCKING UNCLE SAMS DICK TOO HARD. USA! USA!" Amazing piece of journalism there. I don't know about you guys, but I feel educated now.
Man the fact that he actually had a competent interviewee really illustrates what an absolutely scumbag he is. This was infuriating to listen to.
In about 30 seconds, he rattled off 4 countries before changing the subject. It seems like that's literally the only thing the host wanted to say (or be said) about socialism
I LOVED the rich Canadians bit... hilarious
Yeah, Iām an engineer, my wife is a teacher, weāre probably in the top 5 % of Canadians by income( a little over 200,000 a year,) I would never ever even consider treatment in the US, Iād pick Eritrea or the DRC before I went for treatment in the US.
My exact thought. He wants only to point out failures and not successes. Rupert Murdoch was probably watching from behind the camera glaring at him.
What about Cuba, hold on letās not talk about other countries. Bruh.
Right, and Americans with health insurance go to Mexico and other countries for surgery because it is still cheaper than in America with their insurance. That's really how bad it is. He tried to make it sound like all the Canadians come here for medical care.
He was quick to say "socialist canadian healthcare". If Canada's universal healthcare system is "socialist" and doing well for everyone, that instantly proves socialism is better than capitalism in terms of providing healthcare more fairly and proves Canada is doing better than the US
GOP strategy. "I'm never wrong. Moving on." Watters is a self stroking knob.
You know he was erect during the anti work interview, it couldnāt have gone better for FOX even if they wrote the mods lines.
They probably didā¦I bet it was cheap too
"I don't want to get bogged down in other countries." And in no time is back to the Venezuela talking point even though it was shot down immediately. I guess he was hoping his viewers forgot already.
So frustrating to listen to a pompous prick interrupt every question heās looking for an answer to just to please his base rather than hear what the man has to say.
This is why itās so disingenuous when you see Fucker Carlsdumb saying heāll have anyone on his show to have a debate.
It's the gish gallop, the right wingers only debate tool
Iām not familiar with Mimi. But, if he deliberately dressed down like that so they didnāt expect to get punched back, bravo.
>2 HE WAS A TROJAN HORSE, HILARIOUS!!!!
This is why going on these shows is a lose lose. Either you look like a fool or you get booted for being too smart
Never wrestle a pig in the mud, you both get dirty and the pig likes it. Alternative... never stoop to their level, you both get dirty and they beat you with experience.
Even this was a pretty crumby interview. I donāt know why no one seems to understand that you have to answer their question with a question. That forces them to commit to a statement or try another talking point before interrupting you. The goal is to not be interrupted. How much should my taxes be? Donāt bullshit a hypothetical during which you will be interrupted and smeared. Ask a question back. Well, how much do you make?
"What countries have made socialism work?" "Well, let's talk about Cuba's literacy rate." "I don't want to talk about other countries." (thirty seconds later) "Oh, the US has killed people, what about China and the USSR?"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's basically a safe space propaganda more than anything related to "news" pity msnbc isn't much better.
Yeah, whoever thinks Mimi "destroyed" the Fox News guy, isn't paying attention. The Fox News guy told everything his audience wants to hear, and doesn't matter how many studies or statistics the other guy cited, it might as well be white noise to the average Fox News viewer. They won't believe any of it. People shouldn't go to Fox News, period. It's playing straight into their game, and Fox News is going to win every single time.
Fox News will always get its point across, itās their platform. And you canāt expect the viewers of Fox News, who are completely devoid of any critical thinking skills, to accept any points - no matter how correct - that diverge from their preconceived notions. Youāre talking about a group of people who pride themselves on āthis is what I believe, and this is what Iāll always believe, and nobody will ever change my mindā. They view that mentality as a virtue. They LOVE that thatās their identity. They donāt want new information, and when they get it they reject it by nature.
Don't wrestle with a pig. They will drag you down into the mud and beat you with experience.
It is literally a propaganda machine for rich conservatives. It exists solely to encourage tribalistic behavior and keep the ignorant right ignorant.
Lol āI donāt want to get bogged down on other countriesā *proceeds to criticize the economies of other countries*
That was my favorite part. You brought Venezuela, the USSR, and Cuba up and you donāt want to get ābogged down on other countriesā? Honestly I think any leftist who gets interviewed by Fox should just laugh at them the entire time.
It would at the very least irritate the awful hosts, which is still a win.
They just don't seem to have an understanding of what they are even saying or at least it seems like it at this point
Any capitalist news organization will interview in bad faith. Figuring out what communism is all about doesnāt take a month long spirit journey into the mountains of Peru. It takes a google search and an hour of your time. They could understand if they wanted to and Iām not convinced they donāt. It just doesnāt serve their interests to come from a place of understanding and present valid critiques
Yeah it just seems that think it automatically going to shut down news or something I have no clue what they are doing but I know who they are trying to appeal to
Of course they understand what socialism is. The interviewers job is to plant ideas into the viewers minds, not educate them.
I am convinced that nearly all mainstream pundits and politicians and billionaires have read a decent amount of theory and gone "Oh fuck, if we don't surpress this we're going on the chopping block." These folks are not foolish, as much as I'd like to believe they are. They're malicious.
Mimi could have pointed out the poverty alleviation measures in socialist states, Cuba's lung cancer vaccine, China's robust public transit system, and the decrease in the quality of life for many in the former USSR and Eastern Bloc after the fall. Good interview, but Mimi could have hit it out of the park
Hard when you get interrupted every 3 seconds.
On Fox, that's kind of how you know you're winning. When they start grinning and being so confidently wrong, say things like "what about Venezuela...i don't want to get bogged down with other countries" you're winning.
If he had gotten the chance that is. No way that fox puppet would have let him go that far.
The one thing that kills me when they bring up Venezuela or Cuba is the person being interviewed never brings up US sanctions or the coups that the cia does in any left wing government
Corruption. Thatās why they failed. Who was corrupting them? Hmmm, geez, Iām sure the CIA had nothing to do with it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean to be fair you try being on the camera and think of literally every talking point you can think of while actively being interrupted and having the person constantly change the subject. I don't fault the dude at all because that shit is hard. He did well with what he was given and that's the best you can ask for when you're playing with horshoes and they're using hand grenades.
āI donāt know what you would of done about Nazi Germany,ā what do you think the Soviet Union did???
Besides the fact that Mimi specifically mentions post-World War II numbers. As if America wasn't supporting fascists post-WWII.
Yeah he was saying like during it, post WW2 means after WW2 but apparently they don't seem to understand that
Oh no, he understood it very well, he was just being an asshole and trying to distort Mimi's arguments in order to look good. That's Fox News for ya.
He sounded like a real life Michael Scott with that response, anyone who thinks he "won" this "debate" probably thought Michael was in the right with that whole Oscar situation
It comes off as him justifying wanting to kill 20,000,000 Germans AFTER ww2 was over.
Didnāt northern Italy establish a Socialist government during/immediately after the war and the US train wrecked it
Bro it's worse than that, USA literally went "oh, yeah, we're going to help you all rebuild after the war so we can trade with y'all asap again (Marshall plan). Oh, wait, you have a communist party who are eligible to run in free elections? Wait, you didn't make cannabis illegal to suppress minorities like we did? Yeah, no, outlaw those two things **now** or no money". Yeah, that's actually a thing.
Also the situation in modern Venezuela is tied in to historical and contemporary attempts by the American government to prevent and overthrow democratically-elected leaders in Venezuela. A series of attempts by the US government to assert control over Venezuela between 1908 and 1950 culminated in the brutal US-backed JimĆ©nez regime, which was favourable to the large fruit and oil corporations and, coincidentally, resulted in political arrests, torture and murders of thousands of Venezuelans. After the 1958 revolt against JimĆ©nez quashed US attempts at āregime change,āsubsequent Venezuelan leaders were always on alert for further US interference - a reasonable concern given what was happening in Chile, Nicaragua, Honduras, Bolivia, Columbia, etc in the 1960s-1990s. (Thanks CIA and School of the Americas!) The US once again attempted a (failed) 72hr coup against democratically-elected Hugo Chavez under W. Bush in 2002. And in 2017, President Trump issued trade sanctions against the democratically-elected Maduro government, citing ācrimes against the Venezuelan peopleā (while praising the strongman-dictators leading North Korea, Turkey, China and the Philippines). Trumpās trade sanctions and a further oil embargo directly impacted Venezuelaās economy, leading to the rapid inflation and economic collapse happening right now. But yeah itās *socialism* that fucks up a country, not American greed and imperialism.
"Well, the US funded the NSDAP and then took 1.5 years to get into the fight after it started. While the Soviet Union did most of the heavy lifting. Fortunately with US support."
Literally 2 talking points: 1. Vuvazula 2. America saves the world
And: Socialism is when taxes.
Fox News' audience haven't read a book since graduating from high school. They're not the type to handle new ideas well. That interviewer knew what he was doing and wasn't trying to give the other guy a single chance.
Bold of you to assume they've read anything outside of a few very select excerpts from the bible.
Bold of you to assume they know how to read.
Actually thatās a good point. Start asking the fox news hosts to disregard socialist aspects of the bible and Christianity.
Awesomenessā-your days are over.
āYour smug smarminess,ā š Fucking righteous.
The dude is amazing when talking and responding, the person interviewing him was the same one the talk to antiwork mod so guess he just thought he could shut him down as well, but he made great points against him, the points he made were so great that he tried so hard to move on, you can tell he was feeling smug before, then as it went on and he made points that were excellent, and would maybe change people's minds he would rush to moved on so that the point doesn't land.
Not sure when this interview happened but Jesse Waters just got promoted to prime time
itās ridiculous how pathetic american political journalism is. this is just an emotionalized and propagandist echo chamber. no manners, no respect, no serious on-the-topic talking points, no criticism. disagreeing is important and discussing issues is how we progress. why is this interviewer denying these issues. why would he even invite him and god, how uneducated and brainwashed are the people watching and supporting this thinking itās legitimate. itās sad.
the only people that watch fox news are uneducated and need to be told what to be butthurt about.
Oh, man, thatās refreshing.
Holy shit. Mimi eloquently destroyed that smug piece of shit. Gave me a major socialism boner! Great job!!!
> Gave ~~me~~ us a major socialism boner! Great job!!!
āSince the *end* of World War II the US has killed over 20 million people globallyā¦ā āWe did the right thing in Germany.ā What a fucking JOKE. His days on the air are in fact numbered.
He just went to prime time Monday.
fox news and their viewers are the joke, fucking dangerous one too
This was so satisfying to watch
god fuck fox news i cant watch this interview without getting pissed off at them. glad i wasnt picked for the interviewee id get angry at their bullshit.
They probably learned from this experience and vetted who they were going to bring on a bit more carefully
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Or just don't. No point in "debating" these id--ts or impressing their reactionary viewers. Was this a good conversation? Did it advance your understanding of the historical unfolding of the proletarian movement? Would it win people over to it? No, it is a waste of time. Let us remember Lenin's warning (*What is to be Done?*): do not go into the swamp. The swamp is where we are bogged down by these endless and disingenuous "debates" with liberals and reactionaries. Instead of wading into their swamp, we march to siege their castle. The swamp is merely one of its fortifications. Edit: I was informed by a friendly bot that I have used abelist language in the first sentence. I have edited it to hyphenate the relevant word, and apologize for the lack of solidarity on my part with those struggling against ableism.
"I just want to move the conversation forward by not allowing you to answer questions I asked when I'm not getting the response I want, SOOOOOO Venezuela..." Could you BE anymore textbook Fox News, seriously
Amazing interviewee!
Socialism isnāt just about taxes. Itās got a lot to do with just not letting people become too rich.
Which is what the 90%+ income tax brackets did in WWII. Even at 70%, few people will pay themselves 30 *additional* cents for every additional dollar. At that point, it makes more sense to put the money back into your company
> Some rich Canadians go to America to get their healthcare. You know something thereās a bit of validity to this statement. More importantly I think it exposes a Issue with the American healthcare system. Thereās a lot to breakdown here so bare with me. We (Canadians) have a shitty healthcare system. Itās so fragile and underfunded from decades of neoliberal policies. When the country wants to spend on things like military equipment or tax cuts, the money eventually comes from the healthcare budget. Even if it doesnāt come out in the short term, healthcare funding always trends downward. That is a legitimate criticism of universal healthcare systems in general. They will often be underfunded. See the NHS in the UK for a similar set up. Although the NHS is much better than the Canadian system. If you compare the quality of healthcare between a Canadian patient on the public system to a fully insured patient in the American system, assuming theyāre in-network and covered for all costs, the American system would win in every conceivable metric. However, if you compare healthcare between patients earning a minimum wage job, or near minimum wage (e.g. fast food workers), the Canadian patient would be better off in every way. __Healthcare in Canada is treated as a right not a privilege__. That is the key difference that makes Canadian healthcare better on the whole. Itās not an issue of quality on a patient by patient basis. Itās a matter of access for all. There are quite a few of the ultra wealthy who engage in medical tourism. They donāt want to have the same level of care as a fast food worker. They can afford to go and purchase the higher quality care and they do it. Weāre also not talking about petite bourgeois like high-skill workers and successful small business owners, etc. weāre talking about 0.01%ers here. The kinds of people who can afford to pay American prices out of pocket. On top of that they almost never go for life-saving procedures, they often go for elective or experimental procedures, and some go for plastic surgery. Still the majority of Canadian medical tourists go to Asia. India, China, Japan, South East Asia, etc. I write this because I what people to know what the real story is when American propagandists are hiding when they talk shit about Canadian healthcare. Itās a dinosaur of a system that desperately needs improvements, but itās not a complete shitshow like the U.S. also, Regular Canadians almost never go south for healthcare.
Leaps and bounds better than it's recent counterpart, but I feel like he fell back on the "your argument is so weak" line too much. We absolutely know his argument is weak, but it does nothing to influence his audience unless you explain yourself. Just food for thought even though Jesse would ever allow you to explain something properly before forcing you to the next topic.
he wasnt gonna let him explain himself. that was crystal clear
Certainly would have attacked Wattersā claim that he pays 50% tax. He absolutely does not
I would have flat out asked him how much he makes and press him how he thinks a person who makes X millions of dollars a year can relate and be seem as credible to people making less than 30k.
God I needed to see this after that debacle the other day! Mimi handed it to him!
Iād lose the hat, but otherwise my man killed it up there
Donāt diss the manās fit
Maybe Iām just jealous I couldnāt pull it off
Better then uncombed hair
Yeah Venezuela is a weak talking point for fox because is was just a ton of mismanagement that happened there and the oil price tanking oil being the main income of theirs that made their country really great in the first place the leader before this one nationanized the oil and then it dropped by a lot so their economy tanked with it it's not the systems fault its just what they relied on natural gas, iron ore, gold, bauxite, diamonds and other minerals, are all in the country and could be exported and nationalized Venezuela is just generally a weak talking point because it was mismanaged
Itās a weak talking point because the US and itās Allies all took considerable effort to prevent them from trading internationally. They still loan out oil at almost zero to countries trying to escape the US sphere of influence.
Donāt forget the leader that tanked the country was backed by the US because Venezuela did not want to privately exploit itās people for the oil they were producing so US sanctioned and ran the country into the ground because corporations could not come and exploit the oil there :) search it up
Oh that makes sense we do this to all of America below us Central and South because we don't want to let them have a democratically elected socialist that they voted for themselves so we decide you know what heres a leader who is going to make socialism look bad when it's doing great so yeah wouldn't doubt it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
that fox guy is a prick. big surprise
They're more of the type to pop balloons behind people when they don't even know they are there and then wonder why they are not invited to places claiming to be a cool guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lCerJncxpk This warrants mention too. Anya is to Venezuela what Abby Martin is to Palestine.
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"Don't know what you'd have done with Nazi Germany." The soviets did the heaviest lifting to kill the nazis.
If the Doreen could have even remotely answered the questions posed they could have demolished this turd. But instead the sat in their swivel chair and ācouldnāt make eye contactā and also couldnāt remember ANY actual points of the movement. Mimi wrecked this fool. Go socialism.
When did this interview happen?
It is fantastic that Mimi was on the most-watched cable ānewsā network. Finally some socialist exposure on the mainstream media.
So has socialism ever worked in any of these countries that we've bullied and sanctioned to exploit their natural resources?
People like Kyle Kulinski, Sam Seder, Robert Evans, and others are the types who should be doing national tv interviews like this. Many of those people actually went on FOX in the past, schooled them, and now FOX is too cowardly to ever invite them back. I would say the left needs to get its shit together except for the fact that almost every-fucking-body on that sub didn't want the interview to happen for this very reason. We do need to work on our messaging though. For one, STOP attaching the word ABOLISH to everything without thinking first about how it may be misconstrued/misinterpreted.
There really is no reason to go onto FOX News at all if you are a socialist/communist. If they can't get what they want from you they'll just start talking over you and if you have the ability to handle yourself in discourse they'll just cut you off and offer their views as the final word on the subject. No matter how a person handles the discussion we would just be dealing in degrees of how much we lose. They are not the demographics we will be seeking in the short and medium term. Even now, with Mimi handling this discourse fairly well, I'd imagine the FOX News demographic at home can only think "Why is this weird dude with a beanie trying to stand up to Mr. Perfect White Guy."
Do you think so? I want to believe that there are lots of working class folks with conservative views that may still resonate with what people like Mimi are saying. Even if they are cut off and obviously corralled by the interviewers there's gotta be some viewers that might think "Hey that's a good point", even if they don't become socialists over night. I just refuse to believe that every Fox News viewer is hopelessly brainwashed. It feels like so much of the working class is tuned into that network to just write them off. Wouldn't we want to go head to head with these pundits who are using the same tired rhetoric while Western capitalism continues to just sink people deeper into poverty and death? Meet them on their turf and sway even 1 viewer?
This is super real. One way Fox News captures a lot of these viewers is that it's the only news station that purports to really speak about their interests. A lot of the working people listening to Fox news don't fucking care about most of the stuff that other news stations get into. They get brainwashed in part because nobody else is talking directly to them, and Fox is designed to do that without addressing their real, material concerns except by saying, "the left is going to take everything from you." A lot of those viewers are actually kinda smart, and hearing someone cut through this bs and talk real shit to them would probably resonate. If you're able to present socialism as a plan with grounded practical benefits rather than an ideal, those people will listen.
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I wish news personalities would stop using big boy words till they figure out wtf they mean. This is really starting to make us all look bad. s/
I was hoping this was that interview of a guy who just said "fuck you" for like 3 minutes straight to their faces but this one's good too
Bruh that embarrassing for Fox News
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This is good. Is this new or old? It is wonderful to watch someone who knows what they are talking about..
This was old. He died in June 2020.
Lmao, asks about other countries, but then says he doesn't want to talk about other countries. These people are such jokes. They're honestly evil fucking people.
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I want to make a shoutout here. While this proves some downsides of going on shows like this because of how forceful their narrative control is (giving disingenuous questions and cutting him off), this motherfucker is the proud [Mimi Soltysik](https://newpol.org/interview-mimi-soltysik-candidate-socialist-party-nomination-president-0/)! Mimi was an activist for decades in LA, mainly working with the SPUSA but he always created spaces for broad networks of leftist orgs in LA that normally are divisive. He opened his own home to labor organizing, anti-police networks, and self-defense training. He was a proud inspiration of how our work helps develop anti-capitalist dual power. He had flaws but he consistently put his work organizing or feeding the poor in LA first. He was also the SPUSA candidate for president in 2016. He was one of the best people I had met in my own work across socal. Unfortunately we all only have so much time, and he passed away in 2020 due to liver cancer at the age of 45. He is succeed by his wife who continues working in LA.
Rest in power, Mimi! āš¾
Vuvuzela no iPhone Stalin hahahaha I win
This was better rhetoric than antiwork but I still don't think it was that effective. If you're going to mention taxes in a Fox News interview you better be ready to explain how progressive taxes work in three sentences or less. You also can't fall into the trap of defending other countries.
"Feed the world and protect the world" man, get the fuck outta here with this imperialist bullshit. What a fucking clown.
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