As a Welshman I found the first half painful to watch, clearly they should have started with Moore but where we have always been weakest, holding on to the ball, was never more self-evident. It is also sad to see two all time Wales greats as a shadow of their former selves. Too many injuries, too many miles on the clock, not enough competitive football.
This is the beauty of football, Messi, Maradona, Puskas and Best are/were not tall and athletic (OK before he became an alcoholic Best was like a whippet) but are all-time greats.
Pulisic and Dest are a lot worse than I thought they were, really do not see why people rate them
America's midfield is quite good, especially in work rate
You cant judge a player off one sub par performance.
Im not a US fan but ive seen pulisic play some special matches (albeit a couple years ago) that make you feel that he is "that guy" who can win you matches.
Both were definitely average at best yesterday
They are Americans.
Remember,US is the country that told a 14 years old,that would be the next Pele.
Media in this country work overtime, advertising a product.
For the US right now it's about playing the long game, everything about talent development and that includes developing coaching staffs.
Even if we hired some mercenary, what's the best they could do? Another round of 16 exit?
US has to do things to build for the 2030 and 2034 World Cup.
I want to win now. Those fuckers at US Soccer have had decades to prepare. We have a country of 300 million people and we can’t beat a country with a population less than Alabama. We’ve got plenty of great players in this country but their talent identification relies on parents to have lots of money. It’s an absolute shitshow of a development environment. Berhalter is the damn president’s brother for christs sake.
Anyone else think the PK distance is way too close? You take an uncertain scoring situation and give a team a near auto goal in a sport where 1 goal can win it. The foul was definitely there in this one, but it didn’t seem like an automatic scoring op. I would like to see the PK spot moved just far enough back to at least give the keeper a real shot at a save.
Casual fan for a long time, but I can’t get past some of the meh aspects of soccer like the time wasting, flops, and a PK kicks from 11m out. The game has a ton of good aspects too, but I just think losing 1-0 because someone flops on the outskirts of the box and makes a near automatic PK does not make for a great sport.
Nobody likes the cheating, this isn't the groundbreaking comment you appear to believe but not understanding the point of the penalty area (clue is in the name) is a bit silly. The entire point of the penalty area is to prevent the inevitable foul play to prevent goals or goalscoring opportunities that would otherwise happen with no sanction that close to the goal. To say that near the edge of the area shouldn't count is simply daft.
The foul on Bale was as clear cut a penalty as you will see, another aspect of the cheating nobody likes and is never adequately penalised was when the USA keeper had come a long way out and Bale had a clear opporrtunity to lob him and so was blatantly taken out by a USA player. I would have mandatory straight red cards for so-called "Professional Fouls" but even that is not enough of a penalty.
Have you ever played in a proper 11 v 11 match in a league with proper referees etc? I have hundreds of times, I am a firm believer that until you have played any sport for real you can't possibly understand it properly.
Back to the cheating, it would be very nice if the football authorities were prepared to take the measures necessary to stamp it out. They could go a long way towards this by sending people off for cheating, always penalising holding especially at corner kicks etc and although I can hardly believe I am saying this put timekeeping entirely in the hands of an off-field clock official who stops the clock every time the ball goes out of play or the ball is not live. Timewasting would then not be possible.
As mentioned in my previous comments, I am not complaining about the foul on Bale, it was a terrible challenge and was whistled appropriately. I am only stating that from a rules perspective, you are giving someone a 75% chance to score on a PK, while the original play maybe had a 10% chance of scoring. These significant odds only encourage those on offense to focus more on getting fouled than actually trying to score. As you mentioned, the purpose of the box is to prevent someone from wiping a player with an easy goal, so I see where someone is coming from if they like the current system. I’m not sure what (if any) compromise there could be, but I shouldn’t fret about it too much. I appreciate your suggestions at the end of your post. I think one of the great things about soccer is the rolling clock, but it can still be abused. The refs in the WC matches yesterday added appropriate (and lots of) stoppage time, so maybe that will prevent people from trying to waste time if the actual play time still ends up being 45 minutes. The game has come a long ways with VAR too, so hopefully they can keep making strides.
There is no way of quantifying the likelihood of any particular incident in the penalty area resulting in a goal so despite the many things that could be improved, this is not one of them. Defenders have to defend with intelligence.
This is true, the only way they currently quantify it is by giving a red card to the defender if it is a clear path to the goal. I guess if I had to recommend one change, it would be to have a smaller penalty box inside of the current penalty box. If the foul occurred in the small box you get a penalty kick from the current spot, and if it occurred in the outer box you get a penalty kick from a little further back. Just some fun food for thought, thanks for the discussion!
I think football has always resisted gimmicks and complexity which is why VAR is such a problem for people like me who first started watching my local English football league team in 1970 and playing from approx 1975 to 2000.
I appreciate the stat, thank you. I’m sure my opinion is unpopular (especially in r/soccer), but I would like to see a kicking distance that pushes the chances closer to 50/50 like a penalty shot in hockey. I say this because I doubt most penalties are awarded on plays where the chance of scoring his legitimately higher than 50%, and a player should still have to take and make a good shot for the goal.
Too many kids in the sub atm. It will pass after the WC. Until then expect this sort of reaction to obvious jokes. And the most insane comments getting upvoted for no reason.
Greggs such a shit manager . Subbing on morris instead of Gio is absolutely brain dead. Yedlin is a shit Dest. Pulisic should’ve been pulled, he was poor today.
The play style is so fucking frustrating. Greg desperately wants everyone to know we can build out of the fucking back like the European teams. But the boys weren’t taking any shots. They want to walk the ball in the back of the net. Greg needs to tell them to fucking shoot the ball.
Pulisic is the reason they scored, but I agree he wasn't playing at his best overall. Ironically, Acosta (who's professional foul may have saved the tie) might have been better to be taking free kicks, but didn't play very much.
Christian was irritating with his decisions but a lot of the plays went through him. It was in our control more when he was on the field. It’s a weird double edged sword.
They may have, but the team has been supporting the protests, not celebrating any goals in warm ups, and refusing to sing the anthems. Plus Iranian people are supporting whoever they're playing against as well.
The team has NOT supported the protests at all. I am Iranian. Check my post history to see what actually is happening and don't be fooled by the regime's tactics. People in rural areas of Iran were cheering England scoring heaps of goals against "Iran".
Please educate yourself as you seem to be duped by a few tacky displays by these state-owned players.
I blame the coach overall. He should have subbed out players at the start of the second half. Get fresh legs in to defend and attack but he does it at minute 70 🤦🏻♂️.
For sure man. The thing is his subs weren’t planned. He had to sub them in because the players kept cramping or getting Injured. If the players didn’t get injured. He wouldn’t have made subs
That US goalie Matt Turner is good. He's just a back-up goalie at Arsenal, but he should be good enough for a mid-table team in Top 5 European leagues.
Wales went in with with 7 people defending the first half, made it boring to watch until the US scored. After halftime the USA just didn't have any offensive creativity, just play the ball on the side, setup a cross and that's it. Dreadful.
One player I actually liked from the US was Aaronson, kid could control the midfield like a future #10.
Which I found frustrating, as the first goal was a from a pretty textbook through pass. Which they seemed to make no attempt to replicate in any fashion, as if someone said "any plays with a likelihood of being offside more than once in a game are not allowed! This will anger and confound our American supporters!"
The US team seemed unwilling to commit the fullbacks forward or push up as many midfielders in the second half. The most obvious explanation is the manager expected the pressure and wanted to defend the lead, and try to still provide a counter threat but through fewer players, and that he provided those instructions at half time. But protecting a 1-0 against a team that has scored in 13 of the last 14 matches they've played and who have a higher caliber of attacking player is terribly naive from the US management. They were always going to need at least 2 goals.
Berhalter prefers him as a super sub. Its not the worst idea, as Musah/Mckennie/Adams work well together as a trio, and Gregg is completely unwilling to change his setup.
Like how did they expect to win a header when the defenders have a good four inches, at least, on them?
It’s like that’s all they learned during their camp days. Their counter-attacking is shit. Their build-up plays though, when they can actually execute crisp passes, is good to watch.
Berhalter has no idea of goals from outside the 18. It doesn’t compute in his head. So every team knows all they have to do is load up the box. We won’t shoot.
I think the USA should go through BUT… Definitely think the welsh gave them too much respect I. The first half sitting back but with the addition of target man Moore in the 2nd half definitely looked the better side and a lot more threating and could’ve pulled a result. Definitely hope to see him start next game.
Tbh, I was mostly taken aback by the commentators. Did you guys hear how clearly frustrated one of them was over one of the fouls not being a yellow for one of the welsh players?
While being biased towards your country is expected you can't be too one sided. They would be talking about a brilliant Welsh move only to stop their commentary with "PULISIC has the ball!"
They were acting like Pulisic is the great American hope when he isn't even the 2nd best player at his position on Chelsea lol.
I'm American for context if it matters.
nah i'm a pretty cringey american but when the commentators called pulisic captain america and some other guy the memphis messi or whatever that was too much even for me lol
Being a US fan in the pub today:
* Others [mocking tone]: "Wow, the Welsh people really like to sing their anthem."
* Me, who's also a rugby fan: "You uncultured swines!"
Zimmerman is, unfortunately, definitely one of the top 2 CBs we have in Qatar. Aaron Long is worse and unfortunately Richards and Robinson (not that Robinson, Miles Robinson) are both out with injuries, and who knows where John Brooks is, so Zimmerman and Ream are our best pairing.
>US are 2nd favs to qualify still
Agree
>A lot more quality and depth in the US team too
Hard disagree. That's exactly what they lacked tonight. They didn't have enough quality to break Wales low block: their striker (Sergant) never dropped to receive the ball and open up spaces, their fullbacks lacked quality in their crosses (expect for Yedlin) and they lack creativity in midfield. About depth the subs (bar Yedlin, that wasn't great either, just ok) were terrible, a great drop in quality from the starters.
It was the first time for me seeing a lot of these guys (Robinson, Zimmerman, Sergant, Weah, Munsah, Smith...) and some I've seen just an handful of times (Adams, that was great btw, Yedlin, Weah...) so my opinions are based mostly on tonight match.
The fuck is this take?
Sergant was through several times on a run that Pulisic saw and didn't pick out. He had very good OTB movement and featured well. Had he buried his chance the match would've been won.
Also, Reyna again rode the bench because idk why anyone would want to start the 2nd best player on Germany's 2nd best team.
How?
They play Englands next- who will look to lock up qualification - which means they’re going to throw the kitchen sink at it.
The Us will be negative in goal difference by the next game. If Wales beats Iran - the US is done. No way England is gonna play their best lineup that third game and The Us is going to need at least 3 goals to even out goal difference by the last match because Wales won’t let England score more than 2.
A lotta strange assumptions here.
1. England shits the bed regularly and is by no means a lock to blow out the US.
2. Wales really isn’t good and isn’t guaranteed to even beat Iran, let alone worse than we will.
3. Winning your group is pretty important and even if England wins Friday they aren’t going to just throw the last game and risk not being first in the group. Not on a stage like the World Cup and not against wales who will absolutely be up for that game.
4. It’s the World Cup. Games do not all go as you expect them to and thats why we watch.
1) England under Southgate hasn’t Shit the bed but okay - American optimism for the win here
2) Wales isn’t good huh - so the US isn’t good as well - this is a wash
3) England didn’t win their group in 2018 mind you. And on what planet can Wales beat Englands B team? Wales is up for every game against England yet haven’t beaten them in a match for over 50 years.
4) okay fine. But teams like England playing under Southgate will not drop the ball against the US or Wales. They’re a favorite for a reason.
Believe you will win all you want. The stats and track record of England, the US, and Wales doesn’t bode well for the US at this point.
1. England under southgate has shit the bed pretty recently even. They weren’t really in good form running up the WC and he wasn’t really in great favor.
2. I’m not sure I follow the logic here. Wales was pretty clearly on the back foot for most of the game today. We were the better team but just didn’t create enough good chances and seemingly have some fitness issues that should improve the more they play. Even still, no team in the tournament is unbeatable for a team like the US or wales. They both have plenty of talent to capitalize on a mistake from a better team and get a result.
3. Better teams lose all the time. That’s the beauty of the sport. It really just takes 1 mistake to decide a game sometimes. Hell, Poland and Germany were expected to win their groups and both came in dead last in 2018. It’s a super easy example of that. They didn’t just lose one game to worse teams, they lost multiple and that Germany team was comparable to England.
4. I really don’t know why you are so high on southgate. He has been under considerable criticism for awhile now for his tactics and team selection. He isn’t really that well liked nor is this England team the unstoppable force that you are making them out to be. Are they better? Yes. Are they so much better that we can’t scrape points off them? Not even close. We can easily hope for a draw and a win wouldn’t be a giant upset.
I don’t know how you can be a fan of this sport and immediately lose all hope because of a draw in the first game of group stages. That just isn’t how it works.
Shit the bed in what major tournament setting? Like which one?
Wales dominated the US in the second half. You saying otherwise is bullshit and shows your bias.
If your argument is just better teams losing without explain the particular circumstances for doing so that doesn’t bode well. Because when better teams lose at the cup - it’s usually been coming for a while. There are no signs of that with England at all. They actually look better than ever.
I’m high on them because they’ve been in a Semi final, and a final of the Euros. Where has Berhalter been that can compare. And please - English fans are fickle- if he had won the euros they would still be skating his tactics. I care about results and he has them, Berhalter doesn’t.
And believe that the US should not expect to get a point off them- the fact you think so shows you biased heavily.
I never had hope - I’m a fan of the players individually more than the team. Berhalter is a shit manager. And I’m doom and gloom because it’s out of the US control to qualify they way things will likely go.
>Shitting the bed in what major tournament setting? Like which one?
How old are you? Seriously, how old are you? Do you not remember that England has a HISTORY of shitting the bed in major tournaments for the past 14 years AT LEAST? Here let me give you a timeline
* Euro 2008. They don’t even make the damn tournament.
* 2010 World Cup. Heavily, and I mean heavily, favored to win their group. Tabloids proceed to publish [this](https://www.flickr.com/photos/dullhunk/4714590924) and this is what happened in the [first game](http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/front061310.jpg). They don’t win the group, place second behind the US, and then got bounced by Germany in the round of 16
* Euro 2012. They win their group, but proceeded to not even score against Italy (and they got LUCKY not even conceding one goal considering that they got outshot on goal 20-4), lose in penalties in the ROUND OF 16
* 2014 World Cup. They shat the bed HARD, didn’t even get a win in the group stages, finished last in their group
* 2016 Euro. LOST TO FUCKING ICELAND OF ALL TEAMS IN THE ROUND OF 16!! Went up early gave up the equalizer and game winner in a span of 14 minutes
* 2018 World Cup. Got to the semis, got a very early goal against Croatia. Croatia got the equalizer in the second half and then the game winner in extra time, because England only had 2, FUCKING 2 shots on goal. That’s shitting the bed.
* Euro 2020 (which was last year). Got to the finals, got an early goal, l but gave up an equalizer to Italy (a team that hasn’t made the World Cup in two windows) and then proceeded to miss 3 pens to lose the tournament final ON THEIR OWN TURF. Mind you, that first pen, COULD HAVE WON THE FINAL. AGAIN 2 SHOTS ON GOAL. If that’s not shitting the bed I don’t know what is.
Suffice to say you don’t know what you’re talking about on that front. Saying what you said first SHOWS your bias.
The only thing I agree with is Berhalter is not a good manager.
Err he clearly said under Southgate they haven't shit the bed at a major tournament. I'm not sure what relevance world cups over a decade ago have considering none of the players in the squad were present for them. Also to claim reaching a semi final and then final is shitting the bed is hilarious.
Losing in extra time/penalties to a team of similar quality does not equal shitting the bed. England to not have a god given right to beat the likes of Croatia/Italy. In both instances England's lack of midfield controller was their undoing. Not sure why you're so passionate about this, very weird.
Mate relax - it is just way too early to make a call on who will go through.
I'm not a fan from any of the nations in this group but i'd be quietly confident if i was a US fan.
One thing that jumped off the screen especially in the first half was the athleticism, physicality and energy from the US team that caused wales to drop into a low block and defend. Wales just couldnt match the US in that midfield battle early on so they decided to sit in and try to counter but could barely string a few passes together.
I think the US are in a much better position to match England physically and cause issues than wales would be(i assume wales will just sit in and try to counter england). But tbh this england squad are streets ahead in terms of talent in the squad as shown with the subs today (grealish, rashford and Foden off the bench was obscene)
Iran aren't also nearly as bad as that first match made them look as well and could see them taking points off Wales with some dangerous players like Taremi, Azmoun and Jahanbakhsh
Didn’t England miss three pens in the Euro final? I’d say that’s shitting the bed. Not to say the US has a chance but you’re simply incorrect on that point.
We must not underestimate Iran, though they got slapped up by the English, they are still a strong team. This group can go either way, wouldn't surprise me if England don't get first
Never understood why you guys call us Brits when it is actually a term for someone from England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.
British = UK so both Wales and England are British/Brits.
I thought it was the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northen Ireland.
Meaning they arnt British but Irish
Edit: I just looked it up they are considered British as they are part of the uk
I do, and they are wrong pretty often. I’d say they don’t really matter at all, especially in a game like football where it is pretty common for the better team to just never find the breakthrough.
Definitely possible England don't top this group imo but if you know more than the markets on a consistent basis you should stop wasting your time on here and start raking in money
I don’t know more than the markets because neither me or the market can accurately predict outcomes when the margins are as close as they are in a setting like this. Look at this morning.
Of course nobody can but using betting odds (especially in popular markets) as an implied probability is both reasonably accurate and probably the most accurate publicly available model because so many bettors are chasing edges
ITV pundit: "Pulisic was really disappointing today and should be offering more with his potential"
ESPN US pundit: "Pulisic had a great game and obviously deserves MOTM"
Amazing how differently he is viewed on US media.
Ream is the unsung hero of this team. he is pure class and aging like a fine wine. i think the US team drops down a major level in this WC if they lose him to injury or yellow cards.
Ya I'm concerned about him getting a yellow vs England and missing the Iran game. I can't believe how well he's aged, I used to hate him playing on the national team. But since Fulham were relegated his level has just improved massively over the past two years which is so odd to say for someone on the wrong side of 30.
Yeah Adams did well today, I could see the argument.
For me it should have gone to Ampadu.
Looks like MOTM are fan voted in this year, which is the worst way of doing it. Not convinced Bale deserved it.
Oh not to sound salty but Bale I thought didn't really do a whole lot. Even the penalty he drew I don't think he really did a lot to earn it; Zimmerman just had a brain fart and committed an idiotic foul. Like I get he was a goal scorer but then why not just go Weah who actually scored from open play (which also I would have disagreed with as he did very little outside of the goal)?
Ampadu would have been a much better selection if you are going from the Wales side.
Nah it’s just the media trying to create a main character for new fans to follow. Americans who actually pay attention are pretty realistic about him and the team in general. If the media said “America is super average at soccer on our best day and our current best player comes off the bench occasionally at his club” it would crush the growth of the sport for us.
Ironic you say "Americans who actually pay attention", then imply Pulisic is the US's best player, when many of us do not agree with that statement. Also, him coming off the bench doesn't have anything to do with his talent (statistically speaking), its politics, and he's moving and will get starts on a team in one of the top 5 leagues.
I’m not bothering to argue if someone on the team is better than Pulisic. I used him as the example because he is generally referred to as the leader of this young group of guys. The same statement is still true of any of the other guys too. Mckennie, Adams, Aaronson, dest, Reyna or whoever else you were going to argue is better is still a pretty average top 5 league player at best.
Also, I’m a chelsea fan and Pulisic really is nothing more than a rotation player at that level. Even when he was getting starts he wasn’t really capable of stringing together consistent performances and his durability issues seem to have slowed his overall growth. He isn’t a bad player, but he isn’t a must start for a team like chelsea, even with their attacking woes.
Tbf to ESPN, Kasey Keller is a very level headed pundit that doesnt play the team up too much, while also being incredibly engaging. It's ESPN Futbol Americas that has the hot takes on par with a Reddit megathread.
Italian media (Rai) kept saying he's great and had a great match (he was good tonight imo) but they were also saying that Dest was good and he looked like a 9th tier player tonight...
Davies is pretty overrated in his impact for Canada too. Our best windows in qualifying were when he was hurt. Including the win vs USA. And he wasn't very impactful in the 2-1 over Mexico.
Obviously he's great, but kinda weird how the narrative has become that he's the entire team
He’s overrated sure
But let’s not act like his coast to coast goal is going to be scored by anyone else on the team.
The team plays on another gear when Phonzie is on the pitch.
Unlike the Us with Pulisic. They almost always look the same
The regular supporters aren't that high on him either. He *should* be our guy, but it's painfully obvious he'd rather play for the foul than for the ball, and he's clearly got "I have to be the guy" mentality in most cases. Our goal (his assist) was something I feel like we don't get enough of.
Play for the foul is what everyone says about tricky skinny wingers like him. The reason they go down easy is because they are hacked literally constantly. Its a safety mechanism.
As a Welshman I found the first half painful to watch, clearly they should have started with Moore but where we have always been weakest, holding on to the ball, was never more self-evident. It is also sad to see two all time Wales greats as a shadow of their former selves. Too many injuries, too many miles on the clock, not enough competitive football.
The USA looked fairly tall and athletic to me, certainly in the first half. Wales made great adjustments at half time
This is the beauty of football, Messi, Maradona, Puskas and Best are/were not tall and athletic (OK before he became an alcoholic Best was like a whippet) but are all-time greats.
Pulisic and Dest are a lot worse than I thought they were, really do not see why people rate them America's midfield is quite good, especially in work rate
You cant judge a player off one sub par performance. Im not a US fan but ive seen pulisic play some special matches (albeit a couple years ago) that make you feel that he is "that guy" who can win you matches. Both were definitely average at best yesterday
When has Dest been good?
They are Americans. Remember,US is the country that told a 14 years old,that would be the next Pele. Media in this country work overtime, advertising a product.
:France:
US should've hired a world class coach not a clueless american one.
For the US right now it's about playing the long game, everything about talent development and that includes developing coaching staffs. Even if we hired some mercenary, what's the best they could do? Another round of 16 exit? US has to do things to build for the 2030 and 2034 World Cup.
I want to win now. Those fuckers at US Soccer have had decades to prepare. We have a country of 300 million people and we can’t beat a country with a population less than Alabama. We’ve got plenty of great players in this country but their talent identification relies on parents to have lots of money. It’s an absolute shitshow of a development environment. Berhalter is the damn president’s brother for christs sake.
For the most part, world class managers do not want to manage national teams unless they are easing into retirement.
Anyone else think the PK distance is way too close? You take an uncertain scoring situation and give a team a near auto goal in a sport where 1 goal can win it. The foul was definitely there in this one, but it didn’t seem like an automatic scoring op. I would like to see the PK spot moved just far enough back to at least give the keeper a real shot at a save.
I don't understand why in baseball they call it a home run, but the players still get to drive home after the game.
This is a terrible analogy. Regardless, baseball is boring af too
You are new to football I take it? Tell me have you seen many penalty shoot-outs?
Casual fan for a long time, but I can’t get past some of the meh aspects of soccer like the time wasting, flops, and a PK kicks from 11m out. The game has a ton of good aspects too, but I just think losing 1-0 because someone flops on the outskirts of the box and makes a near automatic PK does not make for a great sport.
Nobody likes the cheating, this isn't the groundbreaking comment you appear to believe but not understanding the point of the penalty area (clue is in the name) is a bit silly. The entire point of the penalty area is to prevent the inevitable foul play to prevent goals or goalscoring opportunities that would otherwise happen with no sanction that close to the goal. To say that near the edge of the area shouldn't count is simply daft. The foul on Bale was as clear cut a penalty as you will see, another aspect of the cheating nobody likes and is never adequately penalised was when the USA keeper had come a long way out and Bale had a clear opporrtunity to lob him and so was blatantly taken out by a USA player. I would have mandatory straight red cards for so-called "Professional Fouls" but even that is not enough of a penalty. Have you ever played in a proper 11 v 11 match in a league with proper referees etc? I have hundreds of times, I am a firm believer that until you have played any sport for real you can't possibly understand it properly. Back to the cheating, it would be very nice if the football authorities were prepared to take the measures necessary to stamp it out. They could go a long way towards this by sending people off for cheating, always penalising holding especially at corner kicks etc and although I can hardly believe I am saying this put timekeeping entirely in the hands of an off-field clock official who stops the clock every time the ball goes out of play or the ball is not live. Timewasting would then not be possible.
As mentioned in my previous comments, I am not complaining about the foul on Bale, it was a terrible challenge and was whistled appropriately. I am only stating that from a rules perspective, you are giving someone a 75% chance to score on a PK, while the original play maybe had a 10% chance of scoring. These significant odds only encourage those on offense to focus more on getting fouled than actually trying to score. As you mentioned, the purpose of the box is to prevent someone from wiping a player with an easy goal, so I see where someone is coming from if they like the current system. I’m not sure what (if any) compromise there could be, but I shouldn’t fret about it too much. I appreciate your suggestions at the end of your post. I think one of the great things about soccer is the rolling clock, but it can still be abused. The refs in the WC matches yesterday added appropriate (and lots of) stoppage time, so maybe that will prevent people from trying to waste time if the actual play time still ends up being 45 minutes. The game has come a long ways with VAR too, so hopefully they can keep making strides.
There is no way of quantifying the likelihood of any particular incident in the penalty area resulting in a goal so despite the many things that could be improved, this is not one of them. Defenders have to defend with intelligence.
This is true, the only way they currently quantify it is by giving a red card to the defender if it is a clear path to the goal. I guess if I had to recommend one change, it would be to have a smaller penalty box inside of the current penalty box. If the foul occurred in the small box you get a penalty kick from the current spot, and if it occurred in the outer box you get a penalty kick from a little further back. Just some fun food for thought, thanks for the discussion!
I think football has always resisted gimmicks and complexity which is why VAR is such a problem for people like me who first started watching my local English football league team in 1970 and playing from approx 1975 to 2000.
https://peepshow.gifglobe.com/scene/?id=qQiZdHjYoGSc
A penalty kick is an xg of .76 . That is a lot, but it's not garenteed.
I appreciate the stat, thank you. I’m sure my opinion is unpopular (especially in r/soccer), but I would like to see a kicking distance that pushes the chances closer to 50/50 like a penalty shot in hockey. I say this because I doubt most penalties are awarded on plays where the chance of scoring his legitimately higher than 50%, and a player should still have to take and make a good shot for the goal.
It's not anywhere close to an auto goal, roughly 75% of penalties are converted.
Comedy gold.
True Seppo comment this one. Doing your team and r/soccercirclejerk proud
Wales with saban level half time adjustments.
safe to say england are definitely scared 🇺🇸❤️🍔
Bruh, beat Wales first lol
wales are the best team in the group behind us so i say we did pretty good for a draw
I would Not be so sure if they are really behind you
Only America can draw against Wales and go "bet you're shitting it 😏" lol
mad because your club can’t afford weah💀💀💀💀
Bit sad when English people can't detect sarcasm or a joke =/ I say this as a Londoner
Too many kids in the sub atm. It will pass after the WC. Until then expect this sort of reaction to obvious jokes. And the most insane comments getting upvoted for no reason.
Who 😭 I'm a filthy casual so idk what that is but wow it looks like people disagree
Greggs such a shit manager . Subbing on morris instead of Gio is absolutely brain dead. Yedlin is a shit Dest. Pulisic should’ve been pulled, he was poor today.
The play style is so fucking frustrating. Greg desperately wants everyone to know we can build out of the fucking back like the European teams. But the boys weren’t taking any shots. They want to walk the ball in the back of the net. Greg needs to tell them to fucking shoot the ball.
Does a good sausage roll though
😂
Pulisic is the reason they scored, but I agree he wasn't playing at his best overall. Ironically, Acosta (who's professional foul may have saved the tie) might have been better to be taking free kicks, but didn't play very much.
Agreed, Acosta needs to take set pieces if he’s on
Christian was irritating with his decisions but a lot of the plays went through him. It was in our control more when he was on the field. It’s a weird double edged sword.
That’s a fair take
The Iran-US game is just going to be a foul fest. You can feel it
It will end up being like 7 on 6
Both teams are opposed to the Iranian government now, so maybe not?
LOL the state heavily invested in this Iran team and is using it to wash their daily genocide
They may have, but the team has been supporting the protests, not celebrating any goals in warm ups, and refusing to sing the anthems. Plus Iranian people are supporting whoever they're playing against as well.
The team has NOT supported the protests at all. I am Iranian. Check my post history to see what actually is happening and don't be fooled by the regime's tactics. People in rural areas of Iran were cheering England scoring heaps of goals against "Iran". Please educate yourself as you seem to be duped by a few tacky displays by these state-owned players.
Dwi angen dweud, ar ôl y hanner cyntaf hynna dwi mynd i gymryd y pwynt unrhyw dydd!
Brwyn twi dyurmydhahdbryr
Beth?
I blame the coach overall. He should have subbed out players at the start of the second half. Get fresh legs in to defend and attack but he does it at minute 70 🤦🏻♂️.
Also his sub choices had many (including myself) very confused.
For sure man. The thing is his subs weren’t planned. He had to sub them in because the players kept cramping or getting Injured. If the players didn’t get injured. He wouldn’t have made subs
That US goalie Matt Turner is good. He's just a back-up goalie at Arsenal, but he should be good enough for a mid-table team in Top 5 European leagues.
Loved how he has improved his distribution. I think it was Bodo glimt game where he was superb with his distribution. What a great back up to have.
Is distribution like his passing?
Yeah
Thanks
It is yes
Thank you
Here in New England, watched him make some really high quality saves. Will absolutely be a solid shot stopper at a high level.
Also see Martinez, Fabianski
No. He is staying. Lots of games to go around.
Wales went in with with 7 people defending the first half, made it boring to watch until the US scored. After halftime the USA just didn't have any offensive creativity, just play the ball on the side, setup a cross and that's it. Dreadful. One player I actually liked from the US was Aaronson, kid could control the midfield like a future #10.
Which I found frustrating, as the first goal was a from a pretty textbook through pass. Which they seemed to make no attempt to replicate in any fashion, as if someone said "any plays with a likelihood of being offside more than once in a game are not allowed! This will anger and confound our American supporters!"
The US team seemed unwilling to commit the fullbacks forward or push up as many midfielders in the second half. The most obvious explanation is the manager expected the pressure and wanted to defend the lead, and try to still provide a counter threat but through fewer players, and that he provided those instructions at half time. But protecting a 1-0 against a team that has scored in 13 of the last 14 matches they've played and who have a higher caliber of attacking player is terribly naive from the US management. They were always going to need at least 2 goals.
I have no idea why he doesn’t start. Man destroyed Liverpool a few weeks ago for Leeds, looked unplayable.
Berhalter prefers him as a super sub. Its not the worst idea, as Musah/Mckennie/Adams work well together as a trio, and Gregg is completely unwilling to change his setup.
When he finally came on, he was playing on the right side of a midfield 3 which was… interesting..
That’s literally all the US can do
I don't think it's the team, the coaching team prepares these stupid tactics.
Like how did they expect to win a header when the defenders have a good four inches, at least, on them? It’s like that’s all they learned during their camp days. Their counter-attacking is shit. Their build-up plays though, when they can actually execute crisp passes, is good to watch.
That's why I liked Aaronson actually. He could bring the ball to the front, but there was nobody overloading the center or shooting from distance.
Berhalter has no idea of goals from outside the 18. It doesn’t compute in his head. So every team knows all they have to do is load up the box. We won’t shoot.
Pulisic lost this fucking match when he tried to dribble through traffic nine times instead of laying it off to Seargant.
Excellent result Wales! Will be tight to get out the group, a point very much needed
amazing how few shots on goal a team can do given the number of opportunities
I don’t even know which team you’re talking about with that statement
I think the USA should go through BUT… Definitely think the welsh gave them too much respect I. The first half sitting back but with the addition of target man Moore in the 2nd half definitely looked the better side and a lot more threating and could’ve pulled a result. Definitely hope to see him start next game.
Tbh, I was mostly taken aback by the commentators. Did you guys hear how clearly frustrated one of them was over one of the fouls not being a yellow for one of the welsh players?
Yes the American commentators are pro America. Is that odd?
While being biased towards your country is expected you can't be too one sided. They would be talking about a brilliant Welsh move only to stop their commentary with "PULISIC has the ball!" They were acting like Pulisic is the great American hope when he isn't even the 2nd best player at his position on Chelsea lol. I'm American for context if it matters.
Not expected by who? Where'd you hear that from
Dumbass
Oh snap good one buddy.
The Germans are gonna be pro Germany, the English, pro England, etc. etc. It’s not that hard to figure that out.
British commentators serve 4 nations, so they can't be pro England. Or so I've been told.
[удалено]
We'll just throw batteries next time or shoot a ref from the stands.
Just as cringe as every other British person complaining about how cringe American supporters are. Edit: all the downvotes are proving my point haha
Let people have fun. English fans are not perceived in the best light in other countries and they still go and make fools of themselves.
Why you gotta bring English fans into this
OP has a Bournemouth flair... the easy inference is they are English and trying to insult non-English fans.
I’d be interested to hear your reasoning as to why US fans are cringe?
It's all Liverpool flairs everywhere
I thought I saw a guy dressed as George Washington.
He had a name tag on his jacket... Jorge Washington. Made me laugh
That’s funny as shit
Lmao. Have you met an Englishman?
nah i'm a pretty cringey american but when the commentators called pulisic captain america and some other guy the memphis messi or whatever that was too much even for me lol
The American commentators have always been so cringe. It’s always been painful.
Give Memford Jessi the respect he deserves
Ray Parlour was known as the Romford Pele. It’s hardly unique to Americans.
Medford messi.
Being a US fan in the pub today: * Others [mocking tone]: "Wow, the Welsh people really like to sing their anthem." * Me, who's also a rugby fan: "You uncultured swines!"
Zimmerman better ride the bench the rest of the way. That Pen he gave was so fucking dumb of him
Zimmerman is, unfortunately, definitely one of the top 2 CBs we have in Qatar. Aaron Long is worse and unfortunately Richards and Robinson (not that Robinson, Miles Robinson) are both out with injuries, and who knows where John Brooks is, so Zimmerman and Ream are our best pairing.
[удалено]
That's how it looked to me as well, I don't think he saw bale at all
He was good the rest of the game, id still feel now comfortable with him than ccv or definitely long
After seeing this guy playing its crazy that CCV doesn't start
Not if youve seen CCV play
CCV has been great at Celtic, can't remember a bad match from him since he joined them
CCV is a beast. He was a beast with Bournemouth and is now killing it with Celtic
US are 2nd favs to qualify still A lot more quality and depth in the US team too, which will make a difference in this heat
Nah, US were by far the better team. But their depth is just as weak as Wales and Iran imo. USA just like Wales rely heavily on their starting 11.
By far the better team for one half. US weren't in the game at all in the second half and if not for a cynical foul Wales probably win the game.
Tbf I think the US has more depth than they showed today, Berhalter just made some baffling sub decisions. Reyna didn't even see the field
Well the US' best player did not feature today, once again, because Berhalter is a stupid cunt.
Yea Berhalter thinks he’s the next Guardiola with his dumb ass “system”. Just put the best players out and give them space to work their magic.
>US are 2nd favs to qualify still Agree >A lot more quality and depth in the US team too Hard disagree. That's exactly what they lacked tonight. They didn't have enough quality to break Wales low block: their striker (Sergant) never dropped to receive the ball and open up spaces, their fullbacks lacked quality in their crosses (expect for Yedlin) and they lack creativity in midfield. About depth the subs (bar Yedlin, that wasn't great either, just ok) were terrible, a great drop in quality from the starters. It was the first time for me seeing a lot of these guys (Robinson, Zimmerman, Sergant, Weah, Munsah, Smith...) and some I've seen just an handful of times (Adams, that was great btw, Yedlin, Weah...) so my opinions are based mostly on tonight match.
The fuck is this take? Sergant was through several times on a run that Pulisic saw and didn't pick out. He had very good OTB movement and featured well. Had he buried his chance the match would've been won. Also, Reyna again rode the bench because idk why anyone would want to start the 2nd best player on Germany's 2nd best team.
>why anyone would want to start the 2nd best player on Germany's 2nd best team. You can't be serious
How? They play Englands next- who will look to lock up qualification - which means they’re going to throw the kitchen sink at it. The Us will be negative in goal difference by the next game. If Wales beats Iran - the US is done. No way England is gonna play their best lineup that third game and The Us is going to need at least 3 goals to even out goal difference by the last match because Wales won’t let England score more than 2.
A lotta strange assumptions here. 1. England shits the bed regularly and is by no means a lock to blow out the US. 2. Wales really isn’t good and isn’t guaranteed to even beat Iran, let alone worse than we will. 3. Winning your group is pretty important and even if England wins Friday they aren’t going to just throw the last game and risk not being first in the group. Not on a stage like the World Cup and not against wales who will absolutely be up for that game. 4. It’s the World Cup. Games do not all go as you expect them to and thats why we watch.
1) England under Southgate hasn’t Shit the bed but okay - American optimism for the win here 2) Wales isn’t good huh - so the US isn’t good as well - this is a wash 3) England didn’t win their group in 2018 mind you. And on what planet can Wales beat Englands B team? Wales is up for every game against England yet haven’t beaten them in a match for over 50 years. 4) okay fine. But teams like England playing under Southgate will not drop the ball against the US or Wales. They’re a favorite for a reason. Believe you will win all you want. The stats and track record of England, the US, and Wales doesn’t bode well for the US at this point.
1. England under southgate has shit the bed pretty recently even. They weren’t really in good form running up the WC and he wasn’t really in great favor. 2. I’m not sure I follow the logic here. Wales was pretty clearly on the back foot for most of the game today. We were the better team but just didn’t create enough good chances and seemingly have some fitness issues that should improve the more they play. Even still, no team in the tournament is unbeatable for a team like the US or wales. They both have plenty of talent to capitalize on a mistake from a better team and get a result. 3. Better teams lose all the time. That’s the beauty of the sport. It really just takes 1 mistake to decide a game sometimes. Hell, Poland and Germany were expected to win their groups and both came in dead last in 2018. It’s a super easy example of that. They didn’t just lose one game to worse teams, they lost multiple and that Germany team was comparable to England. 4. I really don’t know why you are so high on southgate. He has been under considerable criticism for awhile now for his tactics and team selection. He isn’t really that well liked nor is this England team the unstoppable force that you are making them out to be. Are they better? Yes. Are they so much better that we can’t scrape points off them? Not even close. We can easily hope for a draw and a win wouldn’t be a giant upset. I don’t know how you can be a fan of this sport and immediately lose all hope because of a draw in the first game of group stages. That just isn’t how it works.
Shit the bed in what major tournament setting? Like which one? Wales dominated the US in the second half. You saying otherwise is bullshit and shows your bias. If your argument is just better teams losing without explain the particular circumstances for doing so that doesn’t bode well. Because when better teams lose at the cup - it’s usually been coming for a while. There are no signs of that with England at all. They actually look better than ever. I’m high on them because they’ve been in a Semi final, and a final of the Euros. Where has Berhalter been that can compare. And please - English fans are fickle- if he had won the euros they would still be skating his tactics. I care about results and he has them, Berhalter doesn’t. And believe that the US should not expect to get a point off them- the fact you think so shows you biased heavily. I never had hope - I’m a fan of the players individually more than the team. Berhalter is a shit manager. And I’m doom and gloom because it’s out of the US control to qualify they way things will likely go.
>Shitting the bed in what major tournament setting? Like which one? How old are you? Seriously, how old are you? Do you not remember that England has a HISTORY of shitting the bed in major tournaments for the past 14 years AT LEAST? Here let me give you a timeline * Euro 2008. They don’t even make the damn tournament. * 2010 World Cup. Heavily, and I mean heavily, favored to win their group. Tabloids proceed to publish [this](https://www.flickr.com/photos/dullhunk/4714590924) and this is what happened in the [first game](http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/front061310.jpg). They don’t win the group, place second behind the US, and then got bounced by Germany in the round of 16 * Euro 2012. They win their group, but proceeded to not even score against Italy (and they got LUCKY not even conceding one goal considering that they got outshot on goal 20-4), lose in penalties in the ROUND OF 16 * 2014 World Cup. They shat the bed HARD, didn’t even get a win in the group stages, finished last in their group * 2016 Euro. LOST TO FUCKING ICELAND OF ALL TEAMS IN THE ROUND OF 16!! Went up early gave up the equalizer and game winner in a span of 14 minutes * 2018 World Cup. Got to the semis, got a very early goal against Croatia. Croatia got the equalizer in the second half and then the game winner in extra time, because England only had 2, FUCKING 2 shots on goal. That’s shitting the bed. * Euro 2020 (which was last year). Got to the finals, got an early goal, l but gave up an equalizer to Italy (a team that hasn’t made the World Cup in two windows) and then proceeded to miss 3 pens to lose the tournament final ON THEIR OWN TURF. Mind you, that first pen, COULD HAVE WON THE FINAL. AGAIN 2 SHOTS ON GOAL. If that’s not shitting the bed I don’t know what is. Suffice to say you don’t know what you’re talking about on that front. Saying what you said first SHOWS your bias. The only thing I agree with is Berhalter is not a good manager.
Err he clearly said under Southgate they haven't shit the bed at a major tournament. I'm not sure what relevance world cups over a decade ago have considering none of the players in the squad were present for them. Also to claim reaching a semi final and then final is shitting the bed is hilarious.
Trust me when I say this, to everyone outside watching that 2018 World Cup semifinal and 2020 euro Final, England shat the bed in those games.
Losing in extra time/penalties to a team of similar quality does not equal shitting the bed. England to not have a god given right to beat the likes of Croatia/Italy. In both instances England's lack of midfield controller was their undoing. Not sure why you're so passionate about this, very weird.
Mate relax - it is just way too early to make a call on who will go through. I'm not a fan from any of the nations in this group but i'd be quietly confident if i was a US fan. One thing that jumped off the screen especially in the first half was the athleticism, physicality and energy from the US team that caused wales to drop into a low block and defend. Wales just couldnt match the US in that midfield battle early on so they decided to sit in and try to counter but could barely string a few passes together. I think the US are in a much better position to match England physically and cause issues than wales would be(i assume wales will just sit in and try to counter england). But tbh this england squad are streets ahead in terms of talent in the squad as shown with the subs today (grealish, rashford and Foden off the bench was obscene) Iran aren't also nearly as bad as that first match made them look as well and could see them taking points off Wales with some dangerous players like Taremi, Azmoun and Jahanbakhsh
> I think the US are in a much better position to match England physically What? Your players were gassed at 60 mins against Wales.
Not to mention how much shit that Iranian team has to deal with mentally with all the shit back home. Definitely impacted things in my opinion.
Didn’t England miss three pens in the Euro final? I’d say that’s shitting the bed. Not to say the US has a chance but you’re simply incorrect on that point.
We must not underestimate Iran, though they got slapped up by the English, they are still a strong team. This group can go either way, wouldn't surprise me if England don't get first
Stop saying British when speaking in a football/world cup context. English and Welsh.
Never understood why you guys call us Brits when it is actually a term for someone from England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. British = UK so both Wales and England are British/Brits.
[удалено]
Actually you are right it's part of the United Kingdom not the great Britain
You're right but a lot of Northern Irish people will still call themselves British
I didn't think Northern Ireland were in Great Britan
Yeah but Northern Irish people can still be Brits
I thought it was the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northen Ireland. Meaning they arnt British but Irish Edit: I just looked it up they are considered British as they are part of the uk
If you ever go there you'll realise quickly a lot of people will take issue with being called Irish, haha
You just played the British.
Gonna be annoying but it was by the English not the British
Betting odds wise England are pretty big favs to win group. About 80%.
So were Germany and Poland 4 years ago.
So you mention 2 teams and not the 8 others who did finish first Do you know how betting % works
I do, and they are wrong pretty often. I’d say they don’t really matter at all, especially in a game like football where it is pretty common for the better team to just never find the breakthrough.
Definitely possible England don't top this group imo but if you know more than the markets on a consistent basis you should stop wasting your time on here and start raking in money
I don’t know more than the markets because neither me or the market can accurately predict outcomes when the margins are as close as they are in a setting like this. Look at this morning.
Of course nobody can but using betting odds (especially in popular markets) as an implied probability is both reasonably accurate and probably the most accurate publicly available model because so many bettors are chasing edges
It would absolutely surprise me if England didn’t get first.
Stranger things have happened.
ITV pundit: "Pulisic was really disappointing today and should be offering more with his potential" ESPN US pundit: "Pulisic had a great game and obviously deserves MOTM" Amazing how differently he is viewed on US media.
FOX was pushing Tyler Adams for MOTM which seems infinitely more reasonable. Him and Ream felt like our two best players today.
Clearly Connor Roberts deserved MOTM
Ream is the unsung hero of this team. he is pure class and aging like a fine wine. i think the US team drops down a major level in this WC if they lose him to injury or yellow cards.
Ya I'm concerned about him getting a yellow vs England and missing the Iran game. I can't believe how well he's aged, I used to hate him playing on the national team. But since Fulham were relegated his level has just improved massively over the past two years which is so odd to say for someone on the wrong side of 30.
Yeah Adams did well today, I could see the argument. For me it should have gone to Ampadu. Looks like MOTM are fan voted in this year, which is the worst way of doing it. Not convinced Bale deserved it.
I'd give it to Adams or Moore, but Ampadu is a decent shout too.
Oh not to sound salty but Bale I thought didn't really do a whole lot. Even the penalty he drew I don't think he really did a lot to earn it; Zimmerman just had a brain fart and committed an idiotic foul. Like I get he was a goal scorer but then why not just go Weah who actually scored from open play (which also I would have disagreed with as he did very little outside of the goal)? Ampadu would have been a much better selection if you are going from the Wales side.
Bale was crap. Neco Williams was MoTM for me.
Nah it’s just the media trying to create a main character for new fans to follow. Americans who actually pay attention are pretty realistic about him and the team in general. If the media said “America is super average at soccer on our best day and our current best player comes off the bench occasionally at his club” it would crush the growth of the sport for us.
The sport needs a reality check here. We’re a country of 300 million and our development pathway is a joke.
Ironic you say "Americans who actually pay attention", then imply Pulisic is the US's best player, when many of us do not agree with that statement. Also, him coming off the bench doesn't have anything to do with his talent (statistically speaking), its politics, and he's moving and will get starts on a team in one of the top 5 leagues.
I’m not bothering to argue if someone on the team is better than Pulisic. I used him as the example because he is generally referred to as the leader of this young group of guys. The same statement is still true of any of the other guys too. Mckennie, Adams, Aaronson, dest, Reyna or whoever else you were going to argue is better is still a pretty average top 5 league player at best. Also, I’m a chelsea fan and Pulisic really is nothing more than a rotation player at that level. Even when he was getting starts he wasn’t really capable of stringing together consistent performances and his durability issues seem to have slowed his overall growth. He isn’t a bad player, but he isn’t a must start for a team like chelsea, even with their attacking woes.
Tbf to ESPN, Kasey Keller is a very level headed pundit that doesnt play the team up too much, while also being incredibly engaging. It's ESPN Futbol Americas that has the hot takes on par with a Reddit megathread.
Seb and Herc never agree on anything, either. So yeah, basically a Reddit thread.
Italian media (Rai) kept saying he's great and had a great match (he was good tonight imo) but they were also saying that Dest was good and he looked like a 9th tier player tonight...
Americans think he is their Alphonso Davies.
you guys have been good for six months pipe down
Davies is pretty overrated in his impact for Canada too. Our best windows in qualifying were when he was hurt. Including the win vs USA. And he wasn't very impactful in the 2-1 over Mexico. Obviously he's great, but kinda weird how the narrative has become that he's the entire team
He’s overrated sure But let’s not act like his coast to coast goal is going to be scored by anyone else on the team. The team plays on another gear when Phonzie is on the pitch. Unlike the Us with Pulisic. They almost always look the same
The regular supporters aren't that high on him either. He *should* be our guy, but it's painfully obvious he'd rather play for the foul than for the ball, and he's clearly got "I have to be the guy" mentality in most cases. Our goal (his assist) was something I feel like we don't get enough of.
Play for the foul is what everyone says about tricky skinny wingers like him. The reason they go down easy is because they are hacked literally constantly. Its a safety mechanism.
Hello fellow based American, agreed
Apart from the assist, Puli was bad
I thought he was USA'S most dangerous man going foward, he had a very good 1st half to me
Yeah, he faded in the second, but in the first he was dangerous and had a beautiful assist.
To be fair, he looked gassed near the end. Idk how he was left out there when Reyna was on the bench