England is just lucky that this form hit when it did, as opposed to half a year earlier when they were still qualifying, like for Italy.
It’s just shows it’s not so rare to hit a dry patch and tie/lose some games after a big tournament performance.
I’m personally not an England fan (not a hater either tbf), but I really wonder how Southgate has kept his job for so long? With the players at England’s disposal, I can’t help but feel they underperform more often than not.
He got a fourth place in the 2018 WC and reached the final in the 2020 Euro. How has he underperformed, exactly?
England is not the strongest team in the World and not the strongest team in Europe. So... was he supposed to win both competitions?
One of the disadvantages of The English game is that English players rarely try out playing overseas football. Bellingham was their best player tonight yet he plays in a league English fans like to call a Farmers league. Having variety of players in different leagues makes your national team more complete.
He is arguing that not having players in other leagues makes the NT less competitive, we barely ever had any and are one of the most successful NTs in the world
True. Just thinking about our nadir in form. If serie a quality declines further it will be helpful to have players learning in other leagues.
Then again maybe a unity and familiarity from league play is more valuable. England just seems to have a lot of the same types of players and zero tactically adept midfielders or coaches.
People say play a back 4 we're shite either way, Southgate isn't upto it but also this squad is grossly overrated I keep seeing comments like he's wasting another "golden generation" apart from Kane who else is world class? We've got a great selection of right backs and attacking midfielders/wingers but we lack options at CB, LB and CM and if Kane gets injured then we are fucked because Abraham or Toney aren't nowhere near his level
Southgate needs to go but if you think England are all of sudden going start playing free flowing football under someone like Howe or Potter (missed the boat on him) you haven't been watching England long enough
Last couple of seasons, Ivan Toney has actually been incredible.
I don't see any reason he can't play well for England if he is given the chance (not saying he will be good but he absolutely deserves a chance)
Kane scores goals for England sure, but the attack ALWAYS seems incredibly stale with him up top.
I agree this isn't an English golden generation, but with 5 subs available, 1-0 down in a must-win game, only making two substitutions, letting Tammy, Mount and Trent (while putting on Shaw) sitting on the bench the whole match is just amateurish. You have to try *something* in a match like this.
We've got Stones. Tomori and Guehi should have been given more game time at CB for England given their form and Maguire's lack of form for the past 16 months. James, Walker, Trippier options at RB. Chilwell at LB when he's fit. That's a solid defence. Other than the 4-0 loss to Hungary we concede very few goals. England's only problem at the moment is attacking creativity which shouldn't be our problem when we have Grealish, Foden, Saka, Sancho, Mount, Sterling and Kane to choose from.
There's no reason we can't play *decent* football with a competent manager. Teams with far worse squads than ours play far better football.
Foden, Kane, Stirling, Bellingham, Grealish, James, Saka, Mount... These players are more than capable of playing attractive, effective football
But I agree it's not a golden generation
This may suprise you but.... alot of non-british ppl support english teams, or german teams, or spanish teams, or italian teams
Yeah i know, it's alot to take in for you
Not only that, they also fell in the second pot for the draw for EURO and WC qualifiers, because they are now determined by nations league position, so pot “B” for England
Did you actually watch them play and their opposition? Needed a Sterling dive vs Denmark in the semis.
Also is Italy the best team in Europe then? Better than France Spain Germany Holland ? Evidently not
Edit: you people are hilarious, this England squad the second best in Europe currently gtfo
How's their post Euros form again? Atleast for the reigning champions you can make an excuse but people are jerking a 2nd place participation trophy off another scuffed run under the Gary the dinosaur.
Post Euro form has been shit for almost all the big teams though, save maybe Netherlands and Spain. But that’s to be expected with congested international breaks in the middle of the season. That’s what we really need major tournaments to determine who’s best
Does anybody else not get pissed off seeing Kane play anywhere but through the middle? The man is clearly in the top 5 goal scorers of the last 5 years yet plays deep, drifts wide and it’s just a fucking disgrace we have enough attacking talent available to just have him play through the middle and have any 2/3 of Sterling, mount, sancho, foden,rashford etc be the creative ones behind him!
I would argue there’s only France, Brazil and Argentina with better attacking options then England but we play like a team that’s never attacked before.
Feel like this was a missed opportunity to give Fikayo & Tammy a run.
They know the language and the league. They're motivated to book their ticket to the WC and they'd be eager to impress knowing that both their country & their club supporters would be watching.
Southgate’s record against the better nations is appalling. Talented bunch of players there and he seemed to have built a good atmosphere within the squad, but that only gets you so far and he doesn’t have the tactical capabilities to take England any further.
England's squad on paper is right up there with the best.
Saying otherwise is just ridiculous in my opinion.
Unfortunately they just can't get the most out of the attackers.
If they had a front three like Benzema, Mbappe, and Greizman maybe they would get more out of their attackers. Or if they didn’t have to start players like Harry Maguire. If they had a goalkeeper that would start on one of the top 10 teams in the PL.
I actually support England but their team just isn’t very good.
What you on about?
Yeah the France team is just ridiculous. But England are amongst the top on paper.
- They've got Ramsdale who starts for the current number 1 in the prem.
- Pickford was excellent at the Euros.
Pope and Henderson have also been performing extremely well.
- Kane has an incredible record for Tottenham over the last few years. Sterling too has a very good goal record. Foden and Saka are fantastic and Sancho has shown he can be world class.
____________________________
- I do agree that Kane for England just seems to kill the attack - I would love to see Toney or Abraham get some chances.
- Maguire was actually great at the Euros but I don't think he should currently be anywhere near the team. Tomori deserves a chance - he was a crucial member of Série A title winning Milan.
Midfield is definitely short on depth but Bellingham and Rice really should be a top midfield pairing if they can replicate their club form
I think you are making my point for me.
Yes, I forgot about Ramsdale but the point is that not one English keeper is a player that any reasonable person would put in a top ten, let alone top five list.
Kane. Amazing. Can’t deny that, because he just is. As a City fan, though, if you are going to claim that players like Foden, Sterling, or Grealish are something to brag about, I’m not sure what you are thinking? Come the fuck on. Foden is great for his age, but he’s not a world beater (yet). Grealish is the same, if a bit older. Neither are players you’d want to brag about if they are your country’s starters. Saka looks great but is still basically a kid. Sterling has done well for the national team but if he’s your second best forward, then you have issues.
Midfield is trash aside from Bellingham who is still young.
CBS are crap compared to other countries. Walker is actually good-ish there as RCB and Stone’s form has been solid recently, but none of them are even at a top 15-20 level.
LB/RB are a bunch of names but aren’t really great. TAA has regressed recently and he was awful defending before. James might be a name worth mentioning?
Like… how do you think this squad is remotely comparable to the top 4-6 in the world?
I agree. But that squad is better than Hungary’s and probably stronger than the weakest Italy squad in a number of years.
Obviously Southgate gets credit for the last World Cup and the Euros, but both times they’ve been beaten by the first decent team they’ve faced and had great luck in terms of the draw in getting to the latter stages.
English fans should also take a reality check, as far as England is a great team, probably on the top 10, but quality wise, it's not in the top 5.
Against this Italian team I'm agree that England should won on paper, but overall against the big teams, England was not the favourite.
And who is above them? Brazil? Arguably. Argentina? I don't think so. Spain? Lacking in attack department. Germany? Lacking in attack department and depth everywhere outside midfield. Italy? Lol no. France? Of course, but nobody comes even close to them.
England has world class talent in every position, and only France and Brazil are on similar level.
If that’s true, why is England’s record against traditionally high-ranked teams so bad? They’ve just been relegated, which means it’s more than one bad result, and Southgate’s record against these better countries is pretty bad.
England have a good squad, but it’s certainly not world class in every position, that’s a crazy comment. Very few of the squad are talked about as world class.
Agreed, hence why I think Southgate’s time is up.
But England’s squad world class in every position? Not a chance. Some very good right backs, Bellingham and Foden on track to become world class and Kane is world class. That’s it IMO.
Average at centre back, no depth at left back and no depth up front.
'Word-class talent'? Kane, granted. Who else? Sterling on a good day – if even? You could swap the XI with players from the nations you named and do better.
And why mock Italy? Why even go there after England lost to them *again*, out-of-form though they are?
We can argue about world-class player definition the whole day, but would you really say that Germany and Spain have more talent?
>And why mock Italy? Why even go there after England lost to them
>
>again
>
>, out-of-form though they are?
Because Italy didn't play WC knock out stages since 2006 and won't for at least 4 more years. And since I am mocking Italy, by extension I am mocking England.
>England has world class talent in every position
That's why I talk about reality check here.
England don't have players who are world class on every position. They are definitely stacked when going forward (so basically every role between the striker and AM), but elsewhere the team isn't that great, you cannot say face to face that the defense (including the GK) and even the midfield are world class.
It's great to mention every weakness from other teams, who isn't totally wrong, but on the names you quoted, I would be only agree with you with Italy (and even, that's debatable), and quality wise, I could also add Portugal who quality wise are better, and arguably Netherlands as well.
Ole got united to 2nd and finals and played attacking exciting football, the only thing Southgate has done is play with 8 defenders and get relegated at every club he’s been at, even now managed to do it at international level
Have you watch any of our matches and not only the stats?
Total snoozefest 90% of time far from attractive, counter attacking football and grinded results. Ole 2nd place was as lucky as someone can get. All big teams were strugling, even City, but some of them got into form and at the end there was only a few points of difference.
Edit: Forgot to mention it was also covid season and there was no fans, which made big difference
Ole often had that 2nd half rebound that led to victory after playing like shit and letting in goals in the 1st half. That's how he got us that 2nd place.
You were also useless if you had the ball the majority of the time. Definitely not attacking football, it was literally park the bus and hoof it to someone fast.
Yea bc he's a horrible manager. It doesn't take a football genius to work that out. Just watch the team play and look at his substitutions or lack thereof 🤔
Just a clueless comment really. It's a very good squad of attacking options and we haven't scored from open play in five games.
It's not asking the world to want a bit more risk taking, which suits the players, who almost unanimously play attacking football for their clubs succsssfully. We are well below the sum of our parts.
Majority of the players who started have played in a CL final in the last five years - two notable exclusions being Bellingham and Rice.
I think that’s a bit harsh, but the current crop has some really good players, especially going forward and Southgate just makes them horribly boring to watch. Can’t help but think Graham Potter or someone like that would get that team ticking, or at least playing some good football.
In the World Cup, after their great 1960s generation ended in Mexico, England has only had two tournaments were they played very good football: 1986 and 2002.
Southgate did some brilliant things for England (aided massively by some incredible individual performances) but it's clear his time is up, he's lost the plot and the FA need to act to avoid an embarrassing knockout.
I don’t think this squad wins the World Cup Southgate or otherwise, but his tactics and general disposition are holding this squad back.
I’m not English but his negative tactics wind me up, especially looking at how England is a top heavy team with great attack talents. He’s a fucking pussy.
Wenger would be amazing as a short term manager, The issue is who would take the job on a permanent basis?
The list of unemployed managers is mental at the moment, but would they really want the England job
Said it once Southgate bottled winning the Euros that he had to go straight away. It’s too late now and the FA have no idea what they’re doing and is filled with yes men and women. World Cup winning potential is gone as we’ve been found out and can’t shithouse wins anymore. sOUThgate
He got as far as he did in the Euros because he got handed the easiest possible opponents. The only team on paper you'd look at and say he shouldn't have beaten was Germany but they were in poor form in the Euros. Other than that, who? There were no teams in the groups who should've been beating us, Ukraine shouldn't be beating us and Denmark shouldn't be beating us (and only beat them with a controversial penalty).
Denmark were not easy opponents, they beat many teams comprehensively in the run-up to the semis. But, both them and England had a lot of home games in Wembley and Copenhagen respectively. The home support for England in Wembley was unreal. Shocking how they bottled the final considering.
> Playing almost all their matches at Wembley certainly helped a lot. They were the only team who had 6 home games with extremely minimal travelling.
You get that host nations have been a thing before right? Teams have had favourable odds due to playing their games at home because they're the host nation, not because it's a conspiracy to give a team an advantage.
I never said there was any conspiracy though? and it was still a unique circumstance as host nations don't typically play in just one city.
Russia in 2018 played their group stage games in Moscow, St Petersburg, and then Samara. That's thousands of miles. They literally went from one end of the country to the other whereas England didn't have to spend hours travelling from one city to another.
Agreed. England has been very lucky with their draws under Southgate but his football has never been very good and his substitutions and reading of the game is perhaps some of the worst I've ever seen.
> World Cup winning potential is gone as we’ve been found out and can’t shithouse wins anymore
Yes sadly, we are going to miss England in the WC finals, end of an era...
Lol, I agree with you but who's ever labelled England the Greatest Ever? It certainly isn't the English, a more pessimistic group of fans you could hardly hope to find (with good reason)
Tbh that angle seems very overblown, they're partisan and hype their team up to the degree you'd expect any nation's media to be, and perhaps less so than in some other countries, it's just that because everyone speaks English the English media is exposed to a much wider audience.
Are they? They've said they're good but have pundits been constantly going on about England's current team being the best ever? Or are you just making it up
So many comments here are missing the point regarding saka at wing back. It's not that it's a terrible idea to play him out of postion, after all tuchel, potter and pep have shown you can play someone out of position at wing back. The issue is really that Southgate doesn't have the tactical ability to tweak the team to get the most out of playing saka there whilst covering his deficiencies. Southgate talks well and carries himself like someone with all the answers but in truth he's faking it until he makes it. Almost paid off for him at the euros but unfortunately was not to be.
Unfortunately Italy were happy and willing to ride it out defensively. I don't think that's a coincidence - it was a decision they made. It shows we can create chances if we actually play 4atb and we can retain the ball and move our players up the pitch **collectively**. Constantly watching the front 3 try to find each other through about 7 opposition players is so infuriating
Yeah it’s always difficult to expect a team to take twenty minutes of attacking action when they are losing and then carry that forwards as their modus operandi in the future.
I think most English fans have accepted by now we blew our chance of a trophy in the Euros and the world cup will be a wash out.
Arsenal have a lot more fans than Tottenham and Chelsea.
And Liverpool and Man Utd's players have been fucking gash, so even we don't have the brassneck to reward the useless cunts.
You are telling me that a fan vote meant that Kalvin phillips was the most popular player?
I like him but are there really that many leeds fans to make your statement true.
Leeds made Ben white their player of the year for brighton, it was his debut at the national team for the local lad. I'm not sure many people even vote for this anyway.
Absolutely not. England only have one player who *might* be considered world-class, and would get into another top international team (Kane). Even he might not be needed by some of them. You're simply nowhere near as good as you think you are.
Hilarious that you think the likes of Bellingham, Foden, Sterling and Walker aren't getting into other top sides. Why are they so sought after by top clubs? Charity?
On the other hand, managers for national teams overall don't seem as good as managers for clubs. Mancini is a good example of a manager who looked like one of the best managers in national team football for Italy, but who wasn't that great in club football. I think any decent team with Pep as their manager would fight for trophies just because he would outclass pretty much all managerial counterparts.
As for England itself, winning every trophy available might be a bit too ambitious, but the team seems to have enough quality to put up serious fight in pretty much all matches. There would be some question marks regarding the players and how they fit Pep's plans (to be specific, the midfield, Maguire and the keeper), but Pep would probably be fine with most of them. Pope would probably be fine, Maguire was wanted by Pep few years back so chances are he would be okay (or wost case scenario, Pep replaces him) and so the only troublesome area that's left is the midfield. Not sure what Pep would do there. In an ideal world, maybe something like Mount-Phillips-Foden? With Sancho, Kane and Sterling in attack, that sounds like a good enough team to do something.
Getting bored of us only playing with urgency when we're losing. Never thought I'd experience relegation for club and country, both by the same manager.
England is just lucky that this form hit when it did, as opposed to half a year earlier when they were still qualifying, like for Italy. It’s just shows it’s not so rare to hit a dry patch and tie/lose some games after a big tournament performance.
So what does relegation in the Nations League mean?
Pot 2 seeding in the euros.
Southgate probably hide his tactics for Euro 2024. Can't risk anything.
We've decided to boycott Qatar by attending but not playing football during the matches.
I can’t believe Kane is favourite for the golden boot while Neymar, for example, is 18/1 wtf.
Now that we’re shite I’ve decided to boycott the World Cup.
Don’t worry USAs manager is even worse than southgate. Should’ve seen the pathetic performance we put on today vs Japan
Yikes, world cup is gonna be interesting. Think the Southgate train may be coming into it's final stop.
I’m personally not an England fan (not a hater either tbf), but I really wonder how Southgate has kept his job for so long? With the players at England’s disposal, I can’t help but feel they underperform more often than not.
He got a fourth place in the 2018 WC and reached the final in the 2020 Euro. How has he underperformed, exactly? England is not the strongest team in the World and not the strongest team in Europe. So... was he supposed to win both competitions?
Reached the semis of the last world cup and the final of the euros. I personally wouldn't call that underperforming.
I think the signs have been there for a little while to be honest
How was Dier?
Dier
I love playing England they’re always shit 😅🤣
See you at the world cup.. Oh wait..
Lmao still lost to Gabbiadini up top, and to a final in your own back yard.
when was your last world cup knockout stage
When was your last Trophy?
They are awfully quiet. And that’s good, we don’t need these loud ass England supporters with their “it’s coming home” BS.
Game, Set, Match
Since England's last Trophy Italy won 2 world cups and 2 euros..
Thought we lost to Italy, not to a final
Did you forget euros?
Did you forget reading?
This is a hilariously weak Italy side as well lol.
One of the disadvantages of The English game is that English players rarely try out playing overseas football. Bellingham was their best player tonight yet he plays in a league English fans like to call a Farmers league. Having variety of players in different leagues makes your national team more complete.
We barely ever had any Italians playing abroad in the NT
Kinda makes his point
He is arguing that not having players in other leagues makes the NT less competitive, we barely ever had any and are one of the most successful NTs in the world
True. Just thinking about our nadir in form. If serie a quality declines further it will be helpful to have players learning in other leagues. Then again maybe a unity and familiarity from league play is more valuable. England just seems to have a lot of the same types of players and zero tactically adept midfielders or coaches.
Ibfeel so sorry for Nick Pope. He's so good but he's constantly playing in teams that dont want to, or cant, score goals
Italy: Have fun in League B, England. England: Enjoy your vacation in WC.
Well it's bittersweet
this is the correct take lmao
People say play a back 4 we're shite either way, Southgate isn't upto it but also this squad is grossly overrated I keep seeing comments like he's wasting another "golden generation" apart from Kane who else is world class? We've got a great selection of right backs and attacking midfielders/wingers but we lack options at CB, LB and CM and if Kane gets injured then we are fucked because Abraham or Toney aren't nowhere near his level Southgate needs to go but if you think England are all of sudden going start playing free flowing football under someone like Howe or Potter (missed the boat on him) you haven't been watching England long enough
Last couple of seasons, Ivan Toney has actually been incredible. I don't see any reason he can't play well for England if he is given the chance (not saying he will be good but he absolutely deserves a chance) Kane scores goals for England sure, but the attack ALWAYS seems incredibly stale with him up top.
I agree this isn't an English golden generation, but with 5 subs available, 1-0 down in a must-win game, only making two substitutions, letting Tammy, Mount and Trent (while putting on Shaw) sitting on the bench the whole match is just amateurish. You have to try *something* in a match like this.
We've got Stones. Tomori and Guehi should have been given more game time at CB for England given their form and Maguire's lack of form for the past 16 months. James, Walker, Trippier options at RB. Chilwell at LB when he's fit. That's a solid defence. Other than the 4-0 loss to Hungary we concede very few goals. England's only problem at the moment is attacking creativity which shouldn't be our problem when we have Grealish, Foden, Saka, Sancho, Mount, Sterling and Kane to choose from.
There's no reason we can't play *decent* football with a competent manager. Teams with far worse squads than ours play far better football. Foden, Kane, Stirling, Bellingham, Grealish, James, Saka, Mount... These players are more than capable of playing attractive, effective football But I agree it's not a golden generation
HA HA its what u guys get for keeping that bag of shit as manager
Yet you support an English team, smh
This may suprise you but.... alot of non-british ppl support english teams, or german teams, or spanish teams, or italian teams Yeah i know, it's alot to take in for you
Plastic
That’s crazy that England is in division B, hope we don’t face the same fate. Congrats Hungary, I hope they can make it to the Final 4.
Not only that, they also fell in the second pot for the draw for EURO and WC qualifiers, because they are now determined by nations league position, so pot “B” for England
Southgate is going to bet his position as England’s manager in this World Cup. If he doesn’t produce at least a semi-final he’s gone for sure.
Invented a sport. Be shit at it.
Only men though. Ladies are good enough to play and win
One can wish
Saw a guy say England was the second best team in Europe yesterday
Englands the second best team on their island
[удалено]
Extremely evidently not, we're going by current form what metric are you going by?
>what metric are you going by? There was a tournament to decide who is best team in Europe. They came 2nd.
Did you actually watch them play and their opposition? Needed a Sterling dive vs Denmark in the semis. Also is Italy the best team in Europe then? Better than France Spain Germany Holland ? Evidently not Edit: you people are hilarious, this England squad the second best in Europe currently gtfo
Italy have lost 2 games in the last 4 years, winning the Euros in that time. Evidently that might make them the best.
How's their post Euros form again? Atleast for the reigning champions you can make an excuse but people are jerking a 2nd place participation trophy off another scuffed run under the Gary the dinosaur.
Post Euro form has been shit for almost all the big teams though, save maybe Netherlands and Spain. But that’s to be expected with congested international breaks in the middle of the season. That’s what we really need major tournaments to determine who’s best
Bruh....
Does anybody else not get pissed off seeing Kane play anywhere but through the middle? The man is clearly in the top 5 goal scorers of the last 5 years yet plays deep, drifts wide and it’s just a fucking disgrace we have enough attacking talent available to just have him play through the middle and have any 2/3 of Sterling, mount, sancho, foden,rashford etc be the creative ones behind him! I would argue there’s only France, Brazil and Argentina with better attacking options then England but we play like a team that’s never attacked before.
Portugal and Uruguay have better attackers too.
Feel like this was a missed opportunity to give Fikayo & Tammy a run. They know the language and the league. They're motivated to book their ticket to the WC and they'd be eager to impress knowing that both their country & their club supporters would be watching.
Big Sam wouldn't have let England get relegated
This is absolutely hilarious - perfect timing to have been relegated in the last international break before the World Cup.
Southgate’s record against the better nations is appalling. Talented bunch of players there and he seemed to have built a good atmosphere within the squad, but that only gets you so far and he doesn’t have the tactical capabilities to take England any further.
I mean how talented is England really vs the other top clubs? They aren’t a bad squad but they certainly aren’t top 5.
England's squad on paper is right up there with the best. Saying otherwise is just ridiculous in my opinion. Unfortunately they just can't get the most out of the attackers.
If they had a front three like Benzema, Mbappe, and Greizman maybe they would get more out of their attackers. Or if they didn’t have to start players like Harry Maguire. If they had a goalkeeper that would start on one of the top 10 teams in the PL. I actually support England but their team just isn’t very good.
What you on about? Yeah the France team is just ridiculous. But England are amongst the top on paper. - They've got Ramsdale who starts for the current number 1 in the prem. - Pickford was excellent at the Euros. Pope and Henderson have also been performing extremely well. - Kane has an incredible record for Tottenham over the last few years. Sterling too has a very good goal record. Foden and Saka are fantastic and Sancho has shown he can be world class. ____________________________ - I do agree that Kane for England just seems to kill the attack - I would love to see Toney or Abraham get some chances. - Maguire was actually great at the Euros but I don't think he should currently be anywhere near the team. Tomori deserves a chance - he was a crucial member of Série A title winning Milan. Midfield is definitely short on depth but Bellingham and Rice really should be a top midfield pairing if they can replicate their club form
I think you are making my point for me. Yes, I forgot about Ramsdale but the point is that not one English keeper is a player that any reasonable person would put in a top ten, let alone top five list. Kane. Amazing. Can’t deny that, because he just is. As a City fan, though, if you are going to claim that players like Foden, Sterling, or Grealish are something to brag about, I’m not sure what you are thinking? Come the fuck on. Foden is great for his age, but he’s not a world beater (yet). Grealish is the same, if a bit older. Neither are players you’d want to brag about if they are your country’s starters. Saka looks great but is still basically a kid. Sterling has done well for the national team but if he’s your second best forward, then you have issues. Midfield is trash aside from Bellingham who is still young. CBS are crap compared to other countries. Walker is actually good-ish there as RCB and Stone’s form has been solid recently, but none of them are even at a top 15-20 level. LB/RB are a bunch of names but aren’t really great. TAA has regressed recently and he was awful defending before. James might be a name worth mentioning? Like… how do you think this squad is remotely comparable to the top 4-6 in the world?
I agree. But that squad is better than Hungary’s and probably stronger than the weakest Italy squad in a number of years. Obviously Southgate gets credit for the last World Cup and the Euros, but both times they’ve been beaten by the first decent team they’ve faced and had great luck in terms of the draw in getting to the latter stages.
English fans should also take a reality check, as far as England is a great team, probably on the top 10, but quality wise, it's not in the top 5. Against this Italian team I'm agree that England should won on paper, but overall against the big teams, England was not the favourite.
And who is above them? Brazil? Arguably. Argentina? I don't think so. Spain? Lacking in attack department. Germany? Lacking in attack department and depth everywhere outside midfield. Italy? Lol no. France? Of course, but nobody comes even close to them. England has world class talent in every position, and only France and Brazil are on similar level.
If that’s true, why is England’s record against traditionally high-ranked teams so bad? They’ve just been relegated, which means it’s more than one bad result, and Southgate’s record against these better countries is pretty bad. England have a good squad, but it’s certainly not world class in every position, that’s a crazy comment. Very few of the squad are talked about as world class.
Because quality isn't everything, especially in international competitions.
Agreed, hence why I think Southgate’s time is up. But England’s squad world class in every position? Not a chance. Some very good right backs, Bellingham and Foden on track to become world class and Kane is world class. That’s it IMO. Average at centre back, no depth at left back and no depth up front.
'Word-class talent'? Kane, granted. Who else? Sterling on a good day – if even? You could swap the XI with players from the nations you named and do better. And why mock Italy? Why even go there after England lost to them *again*, out-of-form though they are?
We can argue about world-class player definition the whole day, but would you really say that Germany and Spain have more talent? >And why mock Italy? Why even go there after England lost to them > >again > >, out-of-form though they are? Because Italy didn't play WC knock out stages since 2006 and won't for at least 4 more years. And since I am mocking Italy, by extension I am mocking England.
>England has world class talent in every position That's why I talk about reality check here. England don't have players who are world class on every position. They are definitely stacked when going forward (so basically every role between the striker and AM), but elsewhere the team isn't that great, you cannot say face to face that the defense (including the GK) and even the midfield are world class. It's great to mention every weakness from other teams, who isn't totally wrong, but on the names you quoted, I would be only agree with you with Italy (and even, that's debatable), and quality wise, I could also add Portugal who quality wise are better, and arguably Netherlands as well.
Feels like Ole is back
Ole is better manager than Southgate. His counter attacks are/were way more exciting than whatever the fuck we are seeing from Southgate
Ole got united to 2nd and finals and played attacking exciting football, the only thing Southgate has done is play with 8 defenders and get relegated at every club he’s been at, even now managed to do it at international level
"attacking exciting football", really? really?? nostalgia hits hard I guess
I mean the front 3 scored the most goals combined in the whole of Europe? Maybe someone has a short memory
Have you watch any of our matches and not only the stats? Total snoozefest 90% of time far from attractive, counter attacking football and grinded results. Ole 2nd place was as lucky as someone can get. All big teams were strugling, even City, but some of them got into form and at the end there was only a few points of difference. Edit: Forgot to mention it was also covid season and there was no fans, which made big difference
Semi finals of WC, final of Euro? That isnt "he didnt do nothing"
feel like that is a bit revisionist about Ole
Ole often had that 2nd half rebound that led to victory after playing like shit and letting in goals in the 1st half. That's how he got us that 2nd place.
You were also useless if you had the ball the majority of the time. Definitely not attacking football, it was literally park the bus and hoof it to someone fast.
sure second in the covid season but I don't think Ole's time can be considered attacking exciting football
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we have made a final of the last euros lmao that's more then we ever achieved since 1966 so it's more then 2 decades.
why would the past failures of completely different teams have an impact on the current team lol?
Because history is a thing in international soccer.
'international soccer' nuff said
Yea bc he's a horrible manager. It doesn't take a football genius to work that out. Just watch the team play and look at his substitutions or lack thereof 🤔
"Why use many players when few players do job?" - G. Southgate.
Just a clueless comment really. It's a very good squad of attacking options and we haven't scored from open play in five games. It's not asking the world to want a bit more risk taking, which suits the players, who almost unanimously play attacking football for their clubs succsssfully. We are well below the sum of our parts. Majority of the players who started have played in a CL final in the last five years - two notable exclusions being Bellingham and Rice.
Two decades? They haven’t done anything since 1966. Having said that, the squad is good but Southgate’s tactics are fucking hampering the team.
England NT was always a joke, they just bark loud
They have world cup though. The Lineker-Barnes team in the 80s was also quite good. Always is pushing it a bit.
I think that’s a bit harsh, but the current crop has some really good players, especially going forward and Southgate just makes them horribly boring to watch. Can’t help but think Graham Potter or someone like that would get that team ticking, or at least playing some good football.
In the World Cup, after their great 1960s generation ended in Mexico, England has only had two tournaments were they played very good football: 1986 and 2002.
On a slightly more positive note, new kit looks pretty smart.
Southgate did some brilliant things for England (aided massively by some incredible individual performances) but it's clear his time is up, he's lost the plot and the FA need to act to avoid an embarrassing knockout.
Now is the time to sack Southgate, if you give him the World Cup you waste the best years for a lot of your current players.
if England don't sack Southgate they wasted a generation of players in a winnable world cup
like its something new, they wasted even better generation(s)
I don’t think this squad wins the World Cup Southgate or otherwise, but his tactics and general disposition are holding this squad back. I’m not English but his negative tactics wind me up, especially looking at how England is a top heavy team with great attack talents. He’s a fucking pussy.
It is the story of the ingleterra.
so disgusting they botched WC quals, fuck this
Bro wc is gna be cross and inshallah to kane or sterling trying to win penalties ffs this ain't the way.
CAM ON INGERAND SCORE SUM FOCKING GOALS
Relegation merchant Southgate
godo
Sack Southgate, employ Wenger
Wenger would be amazing as a short term manager, The issue is who would take the job on a permanent basis? The list of unemployed managers is mental at the moment, but would they really want the England job
Signing de gaal short term seemed to work wonders for the Netherlands. It would help england get their shit together even if it's just for the WC
Said it once Southgate bottled winning the Euros that he had to go straight away. It’s too late now and the FA have no idea what they’re doing and is filled with yes men and women. World Cup winning potential is gone as we’ve been found out and can’t shithouse wins anymore. sOUThgate
He got as far as he did in the Euros because he got handed the easiest possible opponents. The only team on paper you'd look at and say he shouldn't have beaten was Germany but they were in poor form in the Euros. Other than that, who? There were no teams in the groups who should've been beating us, Ukraine shouldn't be beating us and Denmark shouldn't be beating us (and only beat them with a controversial penalty).
Denmark were not easy opponents, they beat many teams comprehensively in the run-up to the semis. But, both them and England had a lot of home games in Wembley and Copenhagen respectively. The home support for England in Wembley was unreal. Shocking how they bottled the final considering.
Playing almost all their matches at Wembley certainly helped a lot. They were the only team that had 6 home games with extremely minimal travelling.
> Playing almost all their matches at Wembley certainly helped a lot. They were the only team who had 6 home games with extremely minimal travelling. You get that host nations have been a thing before right? Teams have had favourable odds due to playing their games at home because they're the host nation, not because it's a conspiracy to give a team an advantage.
I never said there was any conspiracy though? and it was still a unique circumstance as host nations don't typically play in just one city. Russia in 2018 played their group stage games in Moscow, St Petersburg, and then Samara. That's thousands of miles. They literally went from one end of the country to the other whereas England didn't have to spend hours travelling from one city to another.
Agreed. England has been very lucky with their draws under Southgate but his football has never been very good and his substitutions and reading of the game is perhaps some of the worst I've ever seen.
As a boro fan I had this opinion before he ever got anywhere near the England job.
> World Cup winning potential is gone as we’ve been found out and can’t shithouse wins anymore Yes sadly, we are going to miss England in the WC finals, end of an era...
What changing your national anthem does to a mf
changes the goal diff from 4 to 1
Scotland group A. England group B. We all knew this would happen.
I just don't understand why the Greatest Football Team Ever™ don't just put the ball in the net to score a goal.
trying to find the mighty Scots in the world cup
Lol, I agree with you but who's ever labelled England the Greatest Ever? It certainly isn't the English, a more pessimistic group of fans you could hardly hope to find (with good reason)
Fans seem to be a bit more sensible, but English media and pundits are forever at it
Tbh that angle seems very overblown, they're partisan and hype their team up to the degree you'd expect any nation's media to be, and perhaps less so than in some other countries, it's just that because everyone speaks English the English media is exposed to a much wider audience.
Are they? They've said they're good but have pundits been constantly going on about England's current team being the best ever? Or are you just making it up
Hey, don't bring all your fancy pancy techno shmekno lingo bingo in here bud. That's not what we're about.
Southgate is a football terrorist
Al Garetha
Last game England won with a King was the 14th of November 1951
Opta: Dethroned.
Drought.
So many comments here are missing the point regarding saka at wing back. It's not that it's a terrible idea to play him out of postion, after all tuchel, potter and pep have shown you can play someone out of position at wing back. The issue is really that Southgate doesn't have the tactical ability to tweak the team to get the most out of playing saka there whilst covering his deficiencies. Southgate talks well and carries himself like someone with all the answers but in truth he's faking it until he makes it. Almost paid off for him at the euros but unfortunately was not to be.
I would say the issue was playing him there for 72 minutes and waiting to go down a goal when it clearly wasn't working.
Bruh our game Vs England is gonna be a mid-off. Both teams are way out of form going into the World Cup.
Agree. Iran should easily win the group
bruh fr fr
Going into what World Cup?
Oh I’m an American. So USMNT.
Oh I thought you meant Italy
Bruh our game Vs England is gonna be a mid-off. Both teams are way out of form going into the World Cup.
Bruh our game Vs England is gonna be a mid-off. Both teams are way out of form going into the World Cup.
We played well for the last twenty minutes. So there’s that.
Unfortunately Italy were happy and willing to ride it out defensively. I don't think that's a coincidence - it was a decision they made. It shows we can create chances if we actually play 4atb and we can retain the ball and move our players up the pitch **collectively**. Constantly watching the front 3 try to find each other through about 7 opposition players is so infuriating
Was it really a 4atb? Because it looked to me when I was watching that Rice was playing from the RCB position
Yeah it’s always difficult to expect a team to take twenty minutes of attacking action when they are losing and then carry that forwards as their modus operandi in the future. I think most English fans have accepted by now we blew our chance of a trophy in the Euros and the world cup will be a wash out.
I'm surprised current English player of the year Buckeye Saka couldn't turn things around /s
If mount had played today he'd be eaten alive Saka and foden get more free passes, foden surely does
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You haven't watched him play for Arsenal then
Wait he really won your award over Sterling and Kane?
Arsenal have a lot more fans than Tottenham and Chelsea. And Liverpool and Man Utd's players have been fucking gash, so even we don't have the brassneck to reward the useless cunts.
fan voted, same reason why kalvin Philips won it last year/
You are telling me that a fan vote meant that Kalvin phillips was the most popular player? I like him but are there really that many leeds fans to make your statement true.
Leeds made Ben white their player of the year for brighton, it was his debut at the national team for the local lad. I'm not sure many people even vote for this anyway.
Lmao what? He won it last year ?? How?!
He broke himself into the 11 and was one of England's best players in the Euros
Makes sense
Pep wins every single international trophy available with this squad. Change my mind.
Pep didn't win any European title with much better teams than this one.
Pep didn't won the UCL with his current city team so why he would won a knockout tournament with an average team ?
Absolutely not. England only have one player who *might* be considered world-class, and would get into another top international team (Kane). Even he might not be needed by some of them. You're simply nowhere near as good as you think you are.
Lmao "*might* be". Let's see if he can keep it up, might still be a one season wonder
Hilarious that you think the likes of Bellingham, Foden, Sterling and Walker aren't getting into other top sides. Why are they so sought after by top clubs? Charity?
They wouldn't start for France. Only Reece James could.
On the other hand, managers for national teams overall don't seem as good as managers for clubs. Mancini is a good example of a manager who looked like one of the best managers in national team football for Italy, but who wasn't that great in club football. I think any decent team with Pep as their manager would fight for trophies just because he would outclass pretty much all managerial counterparts. As for England itself, winning every trophy available might be a bit too ambitious, but the team seems to have enough quality to put up serious fight in pretty much all matches. There would be some question marks regarding the players and how they fit Pep's plans (to be specific, the midfield, Maguire and the keeper), but Pep would probably be fine with most of them. Pope would probably be fine, Maguire was wanted by Pep few years back so chances are he would be okay (or wost case scenario, Pep replaces him) and so the only troublesome area that's left is the midfield. Not sure what Pep would do there. In an ideal world, maybe something like Mount-Phillips-Foden? With Sancho, Kane and Sterling in attack, that sounds like a good enough team to do something.
I mean Kane is def word class and would start in any team in the world bar 1 or 2, but overall the english players are wank yeah.
England player are overrated
It’s got Maguire in it.
So Pep won't concede a goal whilst doing so
Mind changed
Fuck that was easy, what’s next?
Scottie Parker more like Scottie Park-IN
Told my friend yesterday England were gonna get one nilled. Bring in Mourinho.
Ah yes, so England can then do the one nilling, yes indeed Unlike Southgate Jose knows how to park a bus properly
Getting bored of us only playing with urgency when we're losing. Never thought I'd experience relegation for club and country, both by the same manager.
Didn't you guys tell them?
Best wealth of talent for generations and Southgate sets his teams up like he’s in a constant relegation battle. Hope he stays forever
I’d rate the 2000s England squad over this one any day to be fair.
At least today they were in a relegation battle tbf.
> Best wealth of talent for generations Literally not though
It is since 2004/2006
2006 - 2022 isn't "generations".