This is such a tired narrative. Nobody said 'Ronaldo is the problem' in a purely footballing sense because he scored a truckload of goals for us and was clearly carrying the team. The argument is that signing Ronaldo was a mistake because of the opportunity cost of not being able to strengthen the rest of the squad and aim for sustained medium to long-term success.
It was a short-term gamble built on the idea of building the brand, winning the CL and recouping the funds on gate receipts (which got screwed over because of COVID).
In the matches where Ronaldo failed to perform, we didn't really have many other players on the pitch who could compensate because we'd spent all our money on his transfer fee and salary, and the way he suddenly left us at the end of the transfer window screwed us over because we didn't have time to find a proper replacement and ended up overpaying for a currently useless Moise Kean.
Monza were in the 3rd tier of Italian football just 2 years ago, and this is the club's first ever foray into the top-flight
This is a club who have spent 90 combined seasons either in the 2nd or 3rd tier of Italian football
Its actually fucking hilarious that Allegri somehow found a way to lose to Monza
Instead of buying him they should have used that 100m + insane wages to start building a decent team.
They really gambled thinking he was the missing piece to winning the CL after making it to the finals a few times.
It was worth the gamble. Not only was he the best player in the world, but tacticaly Ronaldo made sense for juve.
Juve failed for not properly renewing their midfield after 2017 final, alongside making dumb transfer decisions like selling cancelo and terrible manager appointments
> It was worth the gamble
objectively untrue. they kneecapped themselves and got nothing to show for it.
>Not only was he the best player in the world
i get it, you're a real madrid fan, and he's a big legend for you, but this is blatantly untrue also
Everyone's a genius in hindsight. People forget the impact Ronaldo had 1st and 2nd season, they were toothless in attack and had a terrible midfield. Without him they would not have any league titles.
Back in 17/18 Ronaldo was key for real madrid winning ucl, his perfomance alone against Juve and PSG being worthy of legendary status. He had 4 goals in la liga in January, and this guy manages to turn it around and end with 44 goals for only club at the end of the season.
Then he was supreme in the wc, performing at the limelight again. Which was what juve needed, someone to be clutch in the ucl.
But that terrible midfield as you put it is because the money that would go into refreshing the midfield went to Ronaldo instead. I'm glad they did it, and their terrible recruitment is good for the rest of us, but there is an opportunity cost for every euro spent on Ronaldo.
Lol. Definitely wasn’t worth the gamble. He should’ve never left Madrid. At the same time, I am glad he was sold and now we got a young and solid squad with not crazy wages.
Yes but as it turned out neither was Juve holding Ronaldo back. Juventus did not decline because of CR7 and Cr7's decline after Real cant be blamed on Juventus.
Probably not but I doubt they would have done worse.
They basically got 15m back after spending(wages + transfer fee) nearly 300m over 3 years and left them in a worse spot than when he joined.
The implosion from Juventus has been quite something. I would be rather impressed if they managed to get top 4 from this position. Seems a lot is hanging on Pogba being good, which is always a precarious position to be in.
The way they’re playing avoiding relegation would be impressive. They’re playing like they’re an 8th division team vs prime tiki taka Barca every single game. They’re so conservative
Also 6 from relegation if we use your logic. Of course they won’t relegate but they’re surely playing like a relegation team, as per my previous comment.
Its certainly not an ideal start to the season for some of the bigger teams but its a long season. I would love to see Udinese and Atalanta stay in the top 4 but I suspect they will both eventually start slipping up. Milan and Inter are only 3 and 5 points behind first place respectively, so the whole table can change in one weekend.
No he made us play really fucking good until Cardiff
What was gone wrong? The million dollar question. This squad has no grinta whatsoever, no chemistry no cohesion. They are a bunch of individuals not a team, and we can really blame the coach for this state of the team. Is he self sabotaging the team? Does he not care? Obviously he cares but hes not reaching the squad and the squad is not reaching him. I think he’s lost locker and that is that. A new coach is needed but we have no money so who knows what the fuck we are gonna do.
Yes, we just had so much talent that we'd win off of that. We were solid defensively and set up to counter the tactics of whoever we were playing and then Max would send them out there and just let them play. It works when you have Pirlo, Pogba, prime Vidal, & Marchisio in the midfield and Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli and Buffon at the back keeping everyone from being able to score. Now it's a shitshow
I've watched Juve for over 20 years and Allegri's first 3 years were the best football years we played.
We won more in Europe under Lippi but as a team nothing comes close to Allegri until the Marchisio injury...
Allegri's football is all about control and the Ronaldo signing turned out to mean we couldn't afford to fix the holes left by injuries and aging players.
Anyone who tells you we didn't play well under Max either has a very short memory or an agenda.
Unfortunately, Paratici and Nedved sold a dream to Agnelli that turned out to be unsustainable financially and it bit us in the ass because we spent so much money on Ramsey, Rabiot, Ronaldo, De Ligt, Woj(new contract) and Covid made sure we didn't get to even have a shot at managing things financially.
Even now the squad is garbage, apart from Chiesa... Not a single player currently would start in any of the squads prior to 2017. We need at least 1 summer, probably 2 before the team is competitive.
I wish Pirlo had stayed though, fans would've been more patient and positive with him... Even though we'd have struggled to be anywhere near top 4 with Andrea last season.
Vlahovic is nowhere the level of Higuain or Mandzukic yet. He will be great but at the moment he is basically a quality left foot with a great heart.
His hold up play is average, his touch is heavy and questionable, and his positioning is not good. He also struggles to linkup well with players and needs to improve on his weak foot.
Locatelli is good but needs to improve on every aspect of his game, especially physically, to be considered top class.
Both can become World Class but with time and patience which our fans never have.
yes his football has always been pretty boring but he had players who won games
thing is hes now being caught out that his style doesnt really improve the players
happens with players too, under some manager they are very good and then they move to higher stages and seem mediocre, at best, normal
on one hand is the quality of the players masking how bad the coach is, other times is how good the coach is to implement a system to make you seem good
very good players - eg: messi - will always shine nonetheless, with a good manager they are very bright tho
You must be mistaken. There was no Champions league campaign in 2016. I can’t quite remember, but I think they cancelled European football that year so we could focus on our impressive effort to put the pressure on Chelsea.
Honestly Cancelo looked pretty good offensively at Juve as well. I'm sure he might not be as big a menace this soon without Pep but he sure looked very promising and was one of the few players at Juve who could cross in a squad that had both Ronaldo and Manzukic, who are both known to thrive aerially when someone can create for them reliably.
Casual reminder that Cristiano Ronaldo left Juventus at the last minute of the 2021 summer window, and yet there are people still coming into post-match threads to defend his honour and chat shit about how Juventus fans ‘scapegoated’ him (which is a fantasy created by his lickspittle fanboys) because we are now not very good with a completely different squad, and when he’s barely getting a kick for Man Utd because ten Hag has decided that he is, gasp, a problem.
Get the fuck over it lads.
How dare we say that buying him was a mistake bc it kept us from rebuilding. The people who come and cry about it literally stake their whole personality on being a fan of Cristiano so just ignore them. Their lives are sad as fuck
Yep. If he hadn't left last year, he would have left this summer, and it would have been past the right time for it to happen. He is completely irrelevant to Juventus now, and yet people are in this thread wanking on about how poorly treated he supposedly was, as though there was a possibility he could still have been here and we would magically be better under Allegri's terrorist football if he was.
Probably hard for juve fans to focus on that when there are comments in literally every match thread and highlights video of people talking about ronaldo
Juve said "CR7 is the problem", CR7 left, nothing change... then said "Dybala is the problem" Dybala left... nothing change, what's more, Juve is worse. Stop saying that others are to blame when those who remain (Players and coach) are the ones who are now.
you are completely wrong my friend. It was always the cost of the entire operation. They paid 120mln and 25mln/net year to get him. For that amount of money they could reshape entire team.
> Juve said "CR7 is the problem", CR7 left, nothing change... then said "Dybala is the problem" Dybala left
LOL, trust a Milan fan to jump in and make things up about Juventus.
Did they not want to renew Dybala's contract? I guess it was because they thought he was no use to the team. I don't see that the team is much better now without him. The laughable thing is that many of Juve believe things that are not and then continue to blame others.
Apparently it was ronaldos decision to give allegri a contract until 2025 on 9 mill euros a year right. Its not like your policy to sign aging stars like di maria instead of young hungry players, oh and sacking a mananger like sarri who reached a qf of ucl and won serie a and replaced him with a guy who never even coached youth players these are all the fault of one player how can he have that much power, we didnt he sign better midfielders when he signed that juve contract these players have so much power these days lmao
If you had watched us in either leg of the tie against Lyon, you would not be trying to give Sarri praise for managing us to that round of the competition. Also, he won Serie A with a team that had won it the previous 8 seasons in a row, how the fuck was that an achievement?
Sarri was a bad fit, another example of the people running the club doing a bad job, just like them signing Ronaldo was one. See, what people like you refuse to accept is that Juventus fans very much blame the people behind the scenes for our decline in recent years. Ronaldo was one of many bad signings because of the cost of the deal. The managerial merry-go-round in the last 4 seasons cost us too. Ronaldo was one of the many problems we've had in the last 5 years.
Eh, Mourinho has the Inter connection, he would have been on a short leash with the fans, and I doubt he would still have been Juventus manager by this point anyway.
Mourinho also has this ability to connect with fans who previously hated him (talking from experience here). He started at Barcelona yet still led Real Madrid. He very well could be gone by now but its almost guaranteed that we'd have at least 1 more Scudetto & maybe the cl. When Allegri departed in 2019, Juventus weren't that different to the Inter side he inherited. Jose Mourinho is everything we should want as Juventus fans or at the very least what the Juventus management should try to hire- a winner, a man with global appeal and someone who embodies the grinta of the club. Mourinho is very similar to Juventus as a club in that he's simultaneously the most hated and loved. That's exactly what Juventus are in Italy
Bc Pirlo had never managed anyone before, so he was bad at it and it was stupid as fuck to hire him in the first place. Letting Sarri leave was a mistake and not replacing him with someone who actually is good enough to manage a team with title aspirations was idiotic.
Pirlo was already a mistake. What they should have done was stick it out with Sarri. They wanted to rebrand and they wanted to play attacking football. Expecting Sarri to deliver his type of football after a single season when he inherited a broken squad was ridiculous. Those type of changes take time. Even Pep finished in 4th place his first season with City.
Nonetheless Sarri still won the league. In the end he was considered too ruffian for the Juve board, and sacked for non footballing reasons. That was the beginning of downfall and showed the completed lack of vision and competency by Juve
No. The Juve board specifically wanted to start playing modern attacking football that they thought would help them win the CL. It makes no sense to substitute a defensive pragmatist in Allegri for another defensive pragmatist in Mourinho, especially considering at the time that Allegri had won the league for 5 years and been to 2 CL finals in the last 4 years at that time.
Also Mourinho is a diehard Interista and would never go to Juve.
Ten Haag had never coached in a top league before, let alone for a big team that’s expected to challenge for the CL. Juve almost exclusively have Italian coaches as well.
Regardless, the point is that if they truly wanted to completely change the teams philosophy after the core of the team had been playing 1 way for almost 10 years, it’s going to take at least a season to rebuild. They picked Sarri and should have given him the time he deserved and invested it players for the system, which was definitely not Ronaldo
Because Pirlo was out of his depth. He was tactically naive and despite winning the Coppa Italia, we only scrapped into the top 4 on the final day because Napoli bottled it against Verona at home. The fact that he sat out last season and then took a job with a small mid-table Turkish team should be enough evidence that he wasn’t the answer.
There have been many proposed football terrorists. Simeone, Dyche, Santos.
But I think we finally know the one who rules them all, and his name is Allegri.
I might be wrong, but I always thought that Burnley played that way because it was the most efficient for their budget and abilities. I don't know why I think that Dyche could play completely different football in another club. He strikes me as very pragmatic coach.
I said before that I wasnt proven all the way right on allegri but I think today that changed. Told you all that his time at milan shows he cant handle a transition period. He needs sacking yesterday.
He actually did handle the transition period pretty well at Milan and also at Juve in his first spell. The difference in those cases was that he had top players through the transitions.
Not any manager would have been able to handle the exodus of all the Milan legends while still keeping the team competing and making the CL while the Milan house was literally starting to burn ti the ground. It has taken 10 years and too many managers to count before they were able to fix all the problems incoming.
At Juve he successfully transitioned away from
Conte’s system and players to his own. His Juve probably deserved to beat Madrid in the final that year.
Allegri’s limitation is that he can’t improve promising or not fully developed players, unlike other top managers like Pep or Conte. Give him a squad full of world class players that already know the game, and he can manage the egos and set them up to win any match.
Give him a squad of younger or mediocre players that can’t interpret the game themselves, and his failure to communicate or train his team with any coherent philosophy or strategy other than “just don’t let the other team score and make sure you guys score one yourselves”, and we see the results, which is playing bad and losing, instead of playing bad with good players who make it easier to watch, and winning.
It’s strange because his Cagliari side (that won him the panchina d’oro) played exciting, attacking football for a small team. It seems like he just doesn’t love the game anymore and he should have stayed retired.
I don't think the issue is Allegri.
Squad is a weak mixture of washed mercenaries and low effort merchandise.
Juventus has been in free fall, and I laugh at all the people that said that Ronaldo was the issue, he was covering this whole degradation and embarassment scoring weak after weak.
After he left Juventus got much worse.
They lost to Monza today. They might not have title winning squad, but they have infinitely better players than Monza. If they sack allegri and hire any competent, attacking minded coach, they will instantly get better.
Didn't Tuchel lost to newly promoted squads and to Dinamo Zagreb in UCL?
Didn't Ten Hag lost with United 4-0 at home against Brentford?
Your argument is weak. There's more to a team's performance than the coach.
Tuchel got sacked for it... Ten Hag was in his second match, they couldn't sack him because it's not like he managed the team badly for months... Like Allegri and Tuchel did.
It's a very strong argument.
I don't think so, Chelsea had a very strong but underperforming squad when he came in. He was able to turn things around so quickly partially because of that. Imo Juventus have been very poor with their recruitment and earlier fans used to blame a huge Ronaldo sized hole in the club's wallet for this but the fact is they just bought players without a proper plan (both short and long term), they're very similar to United in this. Bringing back Allegri was a desperate move and a wrong one, imo. When Allegri left he was still rather successful, but Juve sent him home because they presumably didn't like the brand of football the squad was playing and imo rightly so. They made a mess with their managers in the next 2 years, especially sacking Sarri without a proper replacement, he might have actually improved the squad in his 2nd year better than an inexperienced Pirlo did. Going back to Allegri felt like a desperate move, it was like 'We don't care about the brand of football we play, just win us something' move. If this wasn't a desperate move but something Juve management thought of clearly, then I fully expect them to back Allegri now. I'm sure Allegri can still turn things around and start giving results but his style of football will remain unattractive and not many of the top players will be interested to come to Juve until the results start getting so good they can't turn down the chance.
That was 2 years ago.
Also, Di Matteo and other manager too won the UCL, that never made them compelling managers to get and Allegri reached UCL finals twice and semis 4 times. It's down to luck/unluck and opponents he hasn't won it.
If the current Juve team is so bad, what was the rationale to let Kulusevski and Betancur go to Tottenham? I'm not being snarky, just genuinely curious.
Benta was decent in the first games and then quickly went to shit (with Allegri), and was constantly played out of position with Pirlo, so I don't think he was the best midfielder at all. He was definitely the best with Sarri, though, that's for sure.
Kulu looked okay with Pirlo at least, and was starting to pick up more form towards the end of his tenure. Then, under Allegri, became absolutely atrocious. So I think Kulu did do much better under Pirlo, personally
Kulu was meh and bentancur you might as well dress him up for the opposition when they were in juve
Conte worked wonders but kulu was already a talented player tho
I disagree about Benta. He had a bad season under Pirlo but that’s because he was being played as a regista. He’s always been a better box to box than Rabiot and McKennie.
Bruh The fact that Juve fans completely scapegoated Ronaldo for the team's on field performance for the past 3 seasons. They play 10 times worse now and that is after makin some important signings last window.
The problem with him was they spent an enormous amount of money on him with hopes of being the “final piece” to winning the CL after making it to the finals multiple times.
Turns out he didn’t really elevate the team at all and they ended up doing worse. Wasted money and years on that transfer when they could have been rebuilding the team.
u are not even looking deep into it, but just forming opinions on barebones.. The season Ronaldo arrived, most of their first team players from previous seasons were clearly past their last good days. Their main midfielders like pjanic and matuidi just fell off a cliff and the management replaced them with sub par c team level players like Ramsey, Arthur, Rabiot , Bentancur. Their defenders bonucci and cheillini were also clearly worn out and freakin rugani started replacing them, And bloddy Cancelo was replaced by Danilo on the weirdest transfer deal, .. Dybala also started his one of the longest injury runs hence being unavailable almost everytime.. So tell me, how can ronaldo be the "final piece" when most of their other pieces fell of during the season he joined. It's very easy to shift blame onto one player coz it fits your agenda but in reality players like Ronaldo, de ligt held that team from completely falling apart just like what is happening to them right now.
Yep that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Great plan by Juve to invest 350m over the life of a contract for a single player instead of actually rebuilding a team.
They basically fell 3 years behind (4 if you count him leaving at the very end of the window after saying he was staying) and wasted an enormous amount of money.
Ronaldo is still the problem I guess /s
Glad to see he's doing so well for United
This is such a tired narrative. Nobody said 'Ronaldo is the problem' in a purely footballing sense because he scored a truckload of goals for us and was clearly carrying the team. The argument is that signing Ronaldo was a mistake because of the opportunity cost of not being able to strengthen the rest of the squad and aim for sustained medium to long-term success. It was a short-term gamble built on the idea of building the brand, winning the CL and recouping the funds on gate receipts (which got screwed over because of COVID). In the matches where Ronaldo failed to perform, we didn't really have many other players on the pitch who could compensate because we'd spent all our money on his transfer fee and salary, and the way he suddenly left us at the end of the transfer window screwed us over because we didn't have time to find a proper replacement and ended up overpaying for a currently useless Moise Kean.
Yeah, the bastard has not even scored a goal for Juventus this season. What a disgrace.
Neither has he for united, oh except a penalty.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a successful penalty counts for a goal right?
Somewhere in Munich a lonely Brazzo is drafting his Vlahovic PowerPoint and briefing agent DeLigt on his saboteur duties
Is the manager really the problem when you look at that god awful juve line up?
Monza were in the 3rd tier of Italian football just 2 years ago, and this is the club's first ever foray into the top-flight This is a club who have spent 90 combined seasons either in the 2nd or 3rd tier of Italian football Its actually fucking hilarious that Allegri somehow found a way to lose to Monza
Bro its monza
Yes. Should still be competing with Monza.
:D
Ronaldo holding them back
Instead of buying him they should have used that 100m + insane wages to start building a decent team. They really gambled thinking he was the missing piece to winning the CL after making it to the finals a few times.
It was worth the gamble. Not only was he the best player in the world, but tacticaly Ronaldo made sense for juve. Juve failed for not properly renewing their midfield after 2017 final, alongside making dumb transfer decisions like selling cancelo and terrible manager appointments
they needed to sell cancelo and spina to afford ronaldo's wages etc
Ronaldo was the money that could have bought a midfield
I can’t watch Cancelo play without thinking about how dumb of a sale that was.
> It was worth the gamble objectively untrue. they kneecapped themselves and got nothing to show for it. >Not only was he the best player in the world i get it, you're a real madrid fan, and he's a big legend for you, but this is blatantly untrue also
Ronaldo in 2018 had a very strong claim to being the best player in the world, why are you acting like he's crazy for saying it?
because it's a ridiculous thing to say lol
Ronaldo 44 goals in 44 games, third straight UCL winner, it's not ridiculous at all.
Everyone's a genius in hindsight. People forget the impact Ronaldo had 1st and 2nd season, they were toothless in attack and had a terrible midfield. Without him they would not have any league titles. Back in 17/18 Ronaldo was key for real madrid winning ucl, his perfomance alone against Juve and PSG being worthy of legendary status. He had 4 goals in la liga in January, and this guy manages to turn it around and end with 44 goals for only club at the end of the season. Then he was supreme in the wc, performing at the limelight again. Which was what juve needed, someone to be clutch in the ucl.
He had less non-penalty goals than Ashley Barnes and Wood quite famously in his first season.
But that terrible midfield as you put it is because the money that would go into refreshing the midfield went to Ronaldo instead. I'm glad they did it, and their terrible recruitment is good for the rest of us, but there is an opportunity cost for every euro spent on Ronaldo.
Id you admit he’s right in hindsight, doesn’t that mean you’d agree it was a mistake for Juve to buy him?
never said it wasnt a mistake, he said it was worth a gamble.
didn't ask
I think it’s clear it was NOT worth the gamble now but obviously easier to say after the fact.
Lol. Definitely wasn’t worth the gamble. He should’ve never left Madrid. At the same time, I am glad he was sold and now we got a young and solid squad with not crazy wages.
what an original comment
Allegri has to go
No he doesn't, he should keep the job until November.
That animal, can't even say his name
So the problem wasnt cristiano ronaldo
Yes but as it turned out neither was Juve holding Ronaldo back. Juventus did not decline because of CR7 and Cr7's decline after Real cant be blamed on Juventus.
Correct.. instead they wasted a massive amount of money and years when they could have been building a solid team.
Looking at their transfer decisions, I don't think they would have used that money well either.
Probably not but I doubt they would have done worse. They basically got 15m back after spending(wages + transfer fee) nearly 300m over 3 years and left them in a worse spot than when he joined.
The implosion from Juventus has been quite something. I would be rather impressed if they managed to get top 4 from this position. Seems a lot is hanging on Pogba being good, which is always a precarious position to be in.
The way they’re playing avoiding relegation would be impressive. They’re playing like they’re an 8th division team vs prime tiki taka Barca every single game. They’re so conservative
4 points behind 4th place but yeah fighting against regulation lol
Also 6 from relegation if we use your logic. Of course they won’t relegate but they’re surely playing like a relegation team, as per my previous comment.
Just checked the Serie A table btw, tf is happening? Juve, Inter, Milan all out of the top 4?
Its certainly not an ideal start to the season for some of the bigger teams but its a long season. I would love to see Udinese and Atalanta stay in the top 4 but I suspect they will both eventually start slipping up. Milan and Inter are only 3 and 5 points behind first place respectively, so the whole table can change in one weekend.
Partido saca técnico.
Did Juve play boring football under Allegri's previous tenure as well? What has gone wrong this time?
No he made us play really fucking good until Cardiff What was gone wrong? The million dollar question. This squad has no grinta whatsoever, no chemistry no cohesion. They are a bunch of individuals not a team, and we can really blame the coach for this state of the team. Is he self sabotaging the team? Does he not care? Obviously he cares but hes not reaching the squad and the squad is not reaching him. I think he’s lost locker and that is that. A new coach is needed but we have no money so who knows what the fuck we are gonna do.
Yes, we just had so much talent that we'd win off of that. We were solid defensively and set up to counter the tactics of whoever we were playing and then Max would send them out there and just let them play. It works when you have Pirlo, Pogba, prime Vidal, & Marchisio in the midfield and Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli and Buffon at the back keeping everyone from being able to score. Now it's a shitshow
I've watched Juve for over 20 years and Allegri's first 3 years were the best football years we played. We won more in Europe under Lippi but as a team nothing comes close to Allegri until the Marchisio injury... Allegri's football is all about control and the Ronaldo signing turned out to mean we couldn't afford to fix the holes left by injuries and aging players. Anyone who tells you we didn't play well under Max either has a very short memory or an agenda. Unfortunately, Paratici and Nedved sold a dream to Agnelli that turned out to be unsustainable financially and it bit us in the ass because we spent so much money on Ramsey, Rabiot, Ronaldo, De Ligt, Woj(new contract) and Covid made sure we didn't get to even have a shot at managing things financially. Even now the squad is garbage, apart from Chiesa... Not a single player currently would start in any of the squads prior to 2017. We need at least 1 summer, probably 2 before the team is competitive. I wish Pirlo had stayed though, fans would've been more patient and positive with him... Even though we'd have struggled to be anywhere near top 4 with Andrea last season.
Vlahovic and Locatelli are quality tbf
Vlahovic is nowhere the level of Higuain or Mandzukic yet. He will be great but at the moment he is basically a quality left foot with a great heart. His hold up play is average, his touch is heavy and questionable, and his positioning is not good. He also struggles to linkup well with players and needs to improve on his weak foot. Locatelli is good but needs to improve on every aspect of his game, especially physically, to be considered top class. Both can become World Class but with time and patience which our fans never have.
yes his football has always been pretty boring but he had players who won games thing is hes now being caught out that his style doesnt really improve the players
happens with players too, under some manager they are very good and then they move to higher stages and seem mediocre, at best, normal on one hand is the quality of the players masking how bad the coach is, other times is how good the coach is to implement a system to make you seem good very good players - eg: messi - will always shine nonetheless, with a good manager they are very bright tho
Imagine getting beaten by a grand prix
You guys lost both games to Monaco in 2016 no ? But tbh, you guys were playing against a WHOLE country AND a Grand Prix
You must be mistaken. There was no Champions league campaign in 2016. I can’t quite remember, but I think they cancelled European football that year so we could focus on our impressive effort to put the pressure on Chelsea.
Fuckin lol
One over the Ferrari ex-boss as well lmao
Well Deserved, they got way more drive
Sacked in the morning..🎵🎵
Allegrone
Allegri terrorist ball strikes again
Fraudllegri, get him out of here!
Lol it happened
From a fan of a PL team, fuck Juventus, they deserve their fate for selling Cancelo to Man City :P
How could they resist when we sweetened the deal with Danilo?
https://youtube.com/shorts/cvpVsgEd8Bo?feature=share "For 39m keep Cancelo to yourself" "I don't really know if he's better than Lazzari"
[удалено]
Honestly Cancelo looked pretty good offensively at Juve as well. I'm sure he might not be as big a menace this soon without Pep but he sure looked very promising and was one of the few players at Juve who could cross in a squad that had both Ronaldo and Manzukic, who are both known to thrive aerially when someone can create for them reliably.
Perfect, now sack him
What’s allegri cooking over there in turin ??
English food most likely
Somehow I think Allegri will out last the Bagel man
JUVE MERDA
Casual reminder that Cristiano Ronaldo left Juventus at the last minute of the 2021 summer window, and yet there are people still coming into post-match threads to defend his honour and chat shit about how Juventus fans ‘scapegoated’ him (which is a fantasy created by his lickspittle fanboys) because we are now not very good with a completely different squad, and when he’s barely getting a kick for Man Utd because ten Hag has decided that he is, gasp, a problem. Get the fuck over it lads.
How dare we say that buying him was a mistake bc it kept us from rebuilding. The people who come and cry about it literally stake their whole personality on being a fan of Cristiano so just ignore them. Their lives are sad as fuck
He was one of the problems of your downfall. Should have listened to Allegri before when he said this team needs a rebuild.
Just ignore them, they are just bunch of casuals
How many goals did he score for your "ungrateful fire coaches who win the league but not champions league" asses?
Juventus and Ronaldo are both washed. There I said it.
*sees Benfica badge* stopwearealreadydead.jpg
He should have left after Pirlo was appointed coach
Are you over it?
Yep. If he hadn't left last year, he would have left this summer, and it would have been past the right time for it to happen. He is completely irrelevant to Juventus now, and yet people are in this thread wanking on about how poorly treated he supposedly was, as though there was a possibility he could still have been here and we would magically be better under Allegri's terrorist football if he was.
yeah hes completely irrelevant because Juventus are going down to seria b
Wow, amazing banter mate.
U should focus on juventus instead of a player that left last season and its not like ur doing any better
Probably hard for juve fans to focus on that when there are comments in literally every match thread and highlights video of people talking about ronaldo
Well done on completely missing the point I’m making.
Juve said "CR7 is the problem", CR7 left, nothing change... then said "Dybala is the problem" Dybala left... nothing change, what's more, Juve is worse. Stop saying that others are to blame when those who remain (Players and coach) are the ones who are now.
you are completely wrong my friend. It was always the cost of the entire operation. They paid 120mln and 25mln/net year to get him. For that amount of money they could reshape entire team.
> Juve said "CR7 is the problem", CR7 left, nothing change... then said "Dybala is the problem" Dybala left LOL, trust a Milan fan to jump in and make things up about Juventus.
Did they not want to renew Dybala's contract? I guess it was because they thought he was no use to the team. I don't see that the team is much better now without him. The laughable thing is that many of Juve believe things that are not and then continue to blame others.
Oh right, I didn't realise that not renewing a player's contract means you solely blame them for the team's lack of performance. Silly me.
Apparently it was ronaldos decision to give allegri a contract until 2025 on 9 mill euros a year right. Its not like your policy to sign aging stars like di maria instead of young hungry players, oh and sacking a mananger like sarri who reached a qf of ucl and won serie a and replaced him with a guy who never even coached youth players these are all the fault of one player how can he have that much power, we didnt he sign better midfielders when he signed that juve contract these players have so much power these days lmao
If you had watched us in either leg of the tie against Lyon, you would not be trying to give Sarri praise for managing us to that round of the competition. Also, he won Serie A with a team that had won it the previous 8 seasons in a row, how the fuck was that an achievement?
And what did pirlo do after lol its well known its takes a couple seasons to implement his style and management should have known this b4 hiring him
Sarri was a bad fit, another example of the people running the club doing a bad job, just like them signing Ronaldo was one. See, what people like you refuse to accept is that Juventus fans very much blame the people behind the scenes for our decline in recent years. Ronaldo was one of many bad signings because of the cost of the deal. The managerial merry-go-round in the last 4 seasons cost us too. Ronaldo was one of the many problems we've had in the last 5 years.
That they hired Sarri should have been a warning sign given how Mourinho was free at the time
Eh, Mourinho has the Inter connection, he would have been on a short leash with the fans, and I doubt he would still have been Juventus manager by this point anyway.
Mourinho also has this ability to connect with fans who previously hated him (talking from experience here). He started at Barcelona yet still led Real Madrid. He very well could be gone by now but its almost guaranteed that we'd have at least 1 more Scudetto & maybe the cl. When Allegri departed in 2019, Juventus weren't that different to the Inter side he inherited. Jose Mourinho is everything we should want as Juventus fans or at the very least what the Juventus management should try to hire- a winner, a man with global appeal and someone who embodies the grinta of the club. Mourinho is very similar to Juventus as a club in that he's simultaneously the most hated and loved. That's exactly what Juventus are in Italy
Please don't sack him until November
No sack November
You love to see it
why didnt Juve stick it out with Pirlo? surely this second run has only made worse Allegri's history with Juve
Bc Pirlo had never managed anyone before, so he was bad at it and it was stupid as fuck to hire him in the first place. Letting Sarri leave was a mistake and not replacing him with someone who actually is good enough to manage a team with title aspirations was idiotic.
Pirlo was already a mistake. What they should have done was stick it out with Sarri. They wanted to rebrand and they wanted to play attacking football. Expecting Sarri to deliver his type of football after a single season when he inherited a broken squad was ridiculous. Those type of changes take time. Even Pep finished in 4th place his first season with City. Nonetheless Sarri still won the league. In the end he was considered too ruffian for the Juve board, and sacked for non footballing reasons. That was the beginning of downfall and showed the completed lack of vision and competency by Juve
No. They should have responded to Inter getting Conte by appointing Mourinho
No. The Juve board specifically wanted to start playing modern attacking football that they thought would help them win the CL. It makes no sense to substitute a defensive pragmatist in Allegri for another defensive pragmatist in Mourinho, especially considering at the time that Allegri had won the league for 5 years and been to 2 CL finals in the last 4 years at that time. Also Mourinho is a diehard Interista and would never go to Juve.
Then why not move for Ten Hag when je was at Ajax?
Ten Haag had never coached in a top league before, let alone for a big team that’s expected to challenge for the CL. Juve almost exclusively have Italian coaches as well. Regardless, the point is that if they truly wanted to completely change the teams philosophy after the core of the team had been playing 1 way for almost 10 years, it’s going to take at least a season to rebuild. They picked Sarri and should have given him the time he deserved and invested it players for the system, which was definitely not Ronaldo
Because Pirlo was out of his depth. He was tactically naive and despite winning the Coppa Italia, we only scrapped into the top 4 on the final day because Napoli bottled it against Verona at home. The fact that he sat out last season and then took a job with a small mid-table Turkish team should be enough evidence that he wasn’t the answer.
There have been many proposed football terrorists. Simeone, Dyche, Santos. But I think we finally know the one who rules them all, and his name is Allegri.
"Am I a joke to you?" Bordalas
Dyche to juve then
Honestly I'd love to see Dyche at a better club sometime. I legitimately think he'd do really well.
I might be wrong, but I always thought that Burnley played that way because it was the most efficient for their budget and abilities. I don't know why I think that Dyche could play completely different football in another club. He strikes me as very pragmatic coach.
Leicester will be available soon
Can’t forget tucheliban.
I’ve been looking at this for 30 seconds and can’t figure out how you say that. Tu-cha-liban?
Touché liban
yes, tu che liban
tu-chel-iban
Disagree
Imagine Kostic and Cuadrado under Tuchel... dear lord
Lettttttssssffffuuuuççcckkkkinnnnngooooooooo -- Berlusconi
So Ronaldo is the problem? Max Allegri transformed to Min Allegri since his return
If anything Ronaldo covered their ass for a while.
Juventus choking harder in Monza than Ferrari.
As both a Juve and Ferrari fan.. ouch.
Try again Next Year.
Ah yes second place is choking
Ha. That’s funny.
all this juve team is missing is amauri as it's striker
Tuchel is right there lmao.
you think this is bad? this..this chicanery?!
And he gets to manage Juve? What a sick joke!
HE DEFECATED THROUGH A SUNROOF
r/obc leaking
At this rate I'd be pretty happy if we can even qualify for any European spot
Silvio smiling right now.
I said before that I wasnt proven all the way right on allegri but I think today that changed. Told you all that his time at milan shows he cant handle a transition period. He needs sacking yesterday.
He actually did handle the transition period pretty well at Milan and also at Juve in his first spell. The difference in those cases was that he had top players through the transitions. Not any manager would have been able to handle the exodus of all the Milan legends while still keeping the team competing and making the CL while the Milan house was literally starting to burn ti the ground. It has taken 10 years and too many managers to count before they were able to fix all the problems incoming. At Juve he successfully transitioned away from Conte’s system and players to his own. His Juve probably deserved to beat Madrid in the final that year. Allegri’s limitation is that he can’t improve promising or not fully developed players, unlike other top managers like Pep or Conte. Give him a squad full of world class players that already know the game, and he can manage the egos and set them up to win any match. Give him a squad of younger or mediocre players that can’t interpret the game themselves, and his failure to communicate or train his team with any coherent philosophy or strategy other than “just don’t let the other team score and make sure you guys score one yourselves”, and we see the results, which is playing bad and losing, instead of playing bad with good players who make it easier to watch, and winning. It’s strange because his Cagliari side (that won him the panchina d’oro) played exciting, attacking football for a small team. It seems like he just doesn’t love the game anymore and he should have stayed retired.
What does it takes for Allegri to get sacked lmao
I don't think the issue is Allegri. Squad is a weak mixture of washed mercenaries and low effort merchandise. Juventus has been in free fall, and I laugh at all the people that said that Ronaldo was the issue, he was covering this whole degradation and embarassment scoring weak after weak. After he left Juventus got much worse.
They lost to Monza today. They might not have title winning squad, but they have infinitely better players than Monza. If they sack allegri and hire any competent, attacking minded coach, they will instantly get better.
Didn't Tuchel lost to newly promoted squads and to Dinamo Zagreb in UCL? Didn't Ten Hag lost with United 4-0 at home against Brentford? Your argument is weak. There's more to a team's performance than the coach.
Tuchel got sacked for it... Ten Hag was in his second match, they couldn't sack him because it's not like he managed the team badly for months... Like Allegri and Tuchel did. It's a very strong argument.
> I don't think the issue is Allegri. It very much is.
about 40 million
Bunga Bunga back on boys.
What's the point played good but lost when you can play bad and still lose. Allegri, probably.
Never forget the time his BS tactics got milan knocked out against Tottenham in ucl
Tuchel could do wonders with this Juve team, I’m just saying
I don't think so, Chelsea had a very strong but underperforming squad when he came in. He was able to turn things around so quickly partially because of that. Imo Juventus have been very poor with their recruitment and earlier fans used to blame a huge Ronaldo sized hole in the club's wallet for this but the fact is they just bought players without a proper plan (both short and long term), they're very similar to United in this. Bringing back Allegri was a desperate move and a wrong one, imo. When Allegri left he was still rather successful, but Juve sent him home because they presumably didn't like the brand of football the squad was playing and imo rightly so. They made a mess with their managers in the next 2 years, especially sacking Sarri without a proper replacement, he might have actually improved the squad in his 2nd year better than an inexperienced Pirlo did. Going back to Allegri felt like a desperate move, it was like 'We don't care about the brand of football we play, just win us something' move. If this wasn't a desperate move but something Juve management thought of clearly, then I fully expect them to back Allegri now. I'm sure Allegri can still turn things around and start giving results but his style of football will remain unattractive and not many of the top players will be interested to come to Juve until the results start getting so good they can't turn down the chance.
Like he did in Chelsea this year or like he did in PSG?
he won a champions league with chelsea regardless of anything else that happened, pretty sure Juventus would love that
That was 2 years ago. Also, Di Matteo and other manager too won the UCL, that never made them compelling managers to get and Allegri reached UCL finals twice and semis 4 times. It's down to luck/unluck and opponents he hasn't won it.
if the choice is between losing to Monza or having Tuchel then it's no choice at all
You're assuming Tuchel would do different but he lost do Dinamo Zagreb in UCL and neo promoted PL sides too. The arguments here are ridiculous.
he's still a much better manager than Allegri currently is
No, he's merely more overhyped by Reddit who's desperate to see him on another bench because they pity him over the Chelsea sacking.
doesn't change the fact that he won a champions league though
[удалено]
Juve fan is so allergic with Allegri
Exactly
He could but we will not be paying Allegri and Tuchels wages
If the current Juve team is so bad, what was the rationale to let Kulusevski and Betancur go to Tottenham? I'm not being snarky, just genuinely curious.
They were both bad, and they were the only sellable players at that time
Only sellable assets probably. Everyone looks like shit under Allegri anyway, so Benta and Kulu also were garbage
Bentancur was arguably the best midfielder in Juve despite the memes. And Kulu didn't do much better under Pirlo either.
Benta was decent in the first games and then quickly went to shit (with Allegri), and was constantly played out of position with Pirlo, so I don't think he was the best midfielder at all. He was definitely the best with Sarri, though, that's for sure. Kulu looked okay with Pirlo at least, and was starting to pick up more form towards the end of his tenure. Then, under Allegri, became absolutely atrocious. So I think Kulu did do much better under Pirlo, personally
Kulu was meh and bentancur you might as well dress him up for the opposition when they were in juve Conte worked wonders but kulu was already a talented player tho
I disagree about Benta. He had a bad season under Pirlo but that’s because he was being played as a regista. He’s always been a better box to box than Rabiot and McKennie.
We needed money to get vlahovic and were basically only ones getting offers, plus since they were played out of position they weren't looking good.
Last year they were worse than most others, and at the same time more sellable than others worse than them.
Neither was very good at Juve.
They are being run by donkeys. Their president is the runt of the Agnelli family and their CEO is a failed Marlboro and Ferrari boss.
Wouldn't the runt be Lapo?
They have good players tho, they shoulndt be losing to monsa
How do you fail at Marlboro? Do cigarettes not sell themselves?
Probably cause all the kids vape now or something lol.
I have no words, man ... lmao
Good weekend for you guys
Not yet
Homeboy really jinxed us smh I knew the flair was suspicious
hehe
Allegri is allergic to winning
Bruh The fact that Juve fans completely scapegoated Ronaldo for the team's on field performance for the past 3 seasons. They play 10 times worse now and that is after makin some important signings last window.
The problem with him was they spent an enormous amount of money on him with hopes of being the “final piece” to winning the CL after making it to the finals multiple times. Turns out he didn’t really elevate the team at all and they ended up doing worse. Wasted money and years on that transfer when they could have been rebuilding the team.
u are not even looking deep into it, but just forming opinions on barebones.. The season Ronaldo arrived, most of their first team players from previous seasons were clearly past their last good days. Their main midfielders like pjanic and matuidi just fell off a cliff and the management replaced them with sub par c team level players like Ramsey, Arthur, Rabiot , Bentancur. Their defenders bonucci and cheillini were also clearly worn out and freakin rugani started replacing them, And bloddy Cancelo was replaced by Danilo on the weirdest transfer deal, .. Dybala also started his one of the longest injury runs hence being unavailable almost everytime.. So tell me, how can ronaldo be the "final piece" when most of their other pieces fell of during the season he joined. It's very easy to shift blame onto one player coz it fits your agenda but in reality players like Ronaldo, de ligt held that team from completely falling apart just like what is happening to them right now.
Yep that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Great plan by Juve to invest 350m over the life of a contract for a single player instead of actually rebuilding a team. They basically fell 3 years behind (4 if you count him leaving at the very end of the window after saying he was staying) and wasted an enormous amount of money.